This post turned out to be controversial.
It is the view of one teacher.
Other teachers disagreed, and i printed their views too.
This is my view of the role of parents: .http://dianeravitch.net/2012/08/16/what-i-think-about-parents/
The State Commissioner of Education John White memorably said in defense of school vouchers: “To me, it’s a moral outrage that the government would say, ‘We know what’s best for your child,’” White said. “Who are we to tell parents we know better?”
This Louisiana teacher disagrees. She says that parents should expect professionals to know what’s best when it comes to education. She says that parents and teachers should work together, but that it is irresponsible to assume that parents always know what’s best for their child.
I am tired of this attitude about parents knowing what is best for their children. Parents are easily swayed by politicians, talk show hosts and preachers. They rarely understand how schools work unless they are teachers themselves or have relatives who are teachers. If their child broke his leg they would not try to fix it themselves even if they did not have health insurance. They would take the child to a health care professional. So what in God’s name is wrong with taking your child to an Education Professional? This debasement of teachers and deprofessionalization of of K-12 education has got to go before we get a whole generation of uneducated, dysfunctional adults.
Certainly they should have a say and be part of the decision making about the child’s education but parents also starve, beat, tie up, and rape their children. They also spoil them rotten and don’t expect them to do anything and teach them that they are “entitled”.You have to have a license to drive a car, for your dog, and to practice most professions. No license is required to be a parent. I have also seen parents demand inappropriate programs for their child and not accept the truth that a child with a 30 IQ should not be mainstreamed into a college prep program. I had a parent swear that her multihandicapped son could rollerskate when he could not even turn over on his own. But I had to clean dried feces off the little boy’s butt.
I agree that some school programs are bad. They have no vision for the children’s success. They think poor kids are in a pipeline to prison. I have known some bad teachers, some lazy, some incompetent, some functionally illiterate, two drunks and some just not bright enough to teach. But at least 95% of teachers do their best and are competent and do better as they get experience. Some of the best teachers I have known started as paraprofessionals.
Programs may be inadequate or inappropriate for some students but that is not the fault of the teachers but of the politicians and upper administrators. That is part of why I stayed in Severe/Profound. I could pretty much do what I wanted because most people thought my children could not learn anything. I could keep away from the politics pretty well until I came to Louisiana. But this place is a mess from hell.

You do realise that arguing that ALL teachers and ALL schools are bad because YOU had a bad time in school umpteen years ago is utterly illogical and insane don’t you?
When I was 10 I broke my arm. 3 different doctors over a 2 month interval looked at it and said it was sprained. Eventually I was sent for an x-ray and my arm had to be rebroken so it could be set. If I said “I’m not going back to any medical practitioner ever again because they’re all useless, I’ll deal with all future issues my family might have myself” it would be akin to your argument…
I think that you benefited from changing doctors. Perhaps children might benefit from changing schools.
Go ahead and change schools, but you still should pay into the community infrastructure that keeps kids from becoming criminals and robbing you as you sleep because they did not have access to a free education.
I agree but that isn’t what is being argued here. I’m all for pupils changing schools if there are problems that are not easily solved.
I’m merely pointing out that “There is anecdotal evidence that some teachers are not good and some pupils have a bad time in school so therefore I will not let any teachers near my child” is not a logical argument.
Nor is “I’m homeschooling my child because I had a bad time at school many years ago.”
Nor is “I saw on the news that a teacher somewhere did something terrible to students. Therefore I am homeschooling my child.”
All of these arguments are irrational, illogical, nonsensical and insulting to the many hard working professionals in education.
That’s not to say that parents shouldn’t home school their children and I fully support their right to provided they can do so well enough. That support does not extend to supporting some of the ludicrous arguments that are proliferating accusing teachers of all sorts of things.
I really don’t care whether or not people home school their children provided they do so well. I do care about people unfairly denigrating the teaching profession. Even more than that I care about logic and making sense.
I often oppose nonsensical arguments not because I care deeply about the issue (although in this case I do) but simply because nonsense irritates me.
All the talk of indoctrination makes me laugh. Every time there is some sort of societal problem schools are expected to solve it. When every problem society faces from teenage pregnancy to knife crime from drugs to gun crime, from illiteracy to obesity is looked at the first question on many lips is “Why aren’t the schools dealing with this?” I don’t know about the US but in the UK we try, with our meagre resources and time spent with the kids to push against the multi-billion pound advertising, peer pressure, poverty etc. That is apparently acceptable indoctrination (What else would you call it?)
Parents have no problem with indoctrination they agree with…
Funny that.
I find it interesting that this teacher who did her best to avoid the political aspects of education would then so nonchalantly accuse so many parents of being lead astray by some politician. Are you kidding me? It would seem that this teacher believes that while 95% of teachers know better about a child’s education, most parents know nothing about education, don’t care, or are purposefully hurting, abusing, mistreating their children. There is no criticism of the unions influences on the profession or even the government as if they don’t affect what, how, and even why our teachers teach. Nonsense. Not that she did not make some good points, but overall I have to disagree and say I hope parents are MORE involved in their children’s schooling so they are taught by teachers who hate them. Remember that special needs kid who was bullied in school by his teachers and the father had it on tape? Of the two people recognized on the tape only ONE of them were fired! But this blogger doesn’t think that might be relevant.
“There is no criticism of the unions influences on the profession or even the government as if they don’t affect what, how, and even why our teachers teach.”
So what is your research on that topic?
As for the what I’ve researched mostly about homosexuality being taught, but also in the area’s of history and science there are many influences that come from outside of the schools and classrooms that are not from parents and often parents aren’t even notified.
As for the how, well standards and practices change all the time I know, but it seems that good teachers are fired because they happen to be new at the job because of tenure policies in unions.
As for the why, it may be a leap and certainly not indicative of ALL teachers but haven’t you noticed the rise in accusations of teacher student sexual relations, sure some are false but the way that seemingly sexual predators and/or bully teachers are protected by unions is ridiculous. It shouldn’t be so difficult that 16 NY teachers who are accused of sexual misconduct can still teach even after independent investigation found actual misconduct. The HuffPo mentioned that the arbitrators were possibly worried about their jobs and decided to issue penalties, fines, or suspensions so they wouldn’t be overlooked when unions and city officials choose people to arbitrate their legal dilemmas.
“As for the how, well standards and practices change all the time I know, but it seems that good teachers are fired because they happen to be new at the job because of tenure policies in unions.”
Who is to judge who is a good teacher and who is not? I know plenty of newer teachers who are excellent new teachers, but experience counts for a great deal in the classroom.
“As for the why, it may be a leap and certainly not indicative of ALL teachers but haven’t you noticed the rise in accusations of teacher student sexual relations, sure some are false but the way that seemingly sexual predators and/or bully teachers are protected by unions is ridiculous.”
Actually, union members’ due process rights are protected. If tenure charges are brought up on a teacher, an investigation will prove whether or not this person is unfit to work in the schools. If the charges are false, it’s a darn good thing there was someone who had this person’s back. The union doesn’t want sexual predators in the teaching profession. The idea that a union would is preposterous.
“It shouldn’t be so difficult that 16 NY teachers who are accused of sexual misconduct can still teach even after independent investigation found actual misconduct. ”
The key word in that statement is “accused.” You didn’t say convicted through the hearings process–only that misconduct was found through the independent investigation. Is it possible that independent investigators could be biased?
“The HuffPo mentioned that the arbitrators were possibly worried about their jobs and decided to issue penalties, fines, or suspensions so they wouldn’t be overlooked when unions and city officials choose people to arbitrate their legal dilemmas.”
The arbitrators were worried about “whose” jobs, the accused teachers or their own jobs?
It’s this kind of conspiracy thinking that perpetuates ignorance. Unions only support a teacher who has been accused of something–unions do not have any power to hire or fire anyone.
Let me frame this issue this way…if you were accused of something and let’s say that you did not do the crime, would you want to be found guilty before you’ve had a chance to prove your innocence?
Give them an opportunity to speak, and then, if they are true criminals…terminate them and put them away, but please, PLEASE do not misunderstand the purpose of a due process hearing. Unions protect people from witch hunts. You would appreciate the same protection from unlawful termination if it was on your behalf, no doubt.
Unions actually have very limited influence on policy or how, what and why teachers teach. If they did the education system would be a VERY different one. What was the last government education bill or policy that the unions were happy with? Unions successfully oppose decisions largely when the process behaind the decision making has not been done properly in some way. That’s not the fault of the union but the fault of the decision makers…
Look at the long list of policies that unions oppose. They are still policies aren’t they? They have still been brought in aren’t they? Despite the opposition of the ALL POWERFUL UNIONS…
Most people who complain about unions are merely parrotting propoganda and cannot evidence any of their claims…
You are however right about the government being deserving of criticism.
After reading your comments to be honest I’m wondering if you read the same latter as me because it didn’t say anything of the sort.
The writer suggests that parents are awayed by politicians (note: not all parents). Are you saying they are not? No parents are swayed by politicians?
The only comment about 95% of teachers is that they are committed and do their best… Do you dispute that?
I don’t recall their being a comment about “most parents” in what was written and all the references to “parents” were clearly from the context about SOME parents.
I too wish parents were more involved in their childrens schooling and have run several programs to try to get them more involved. I’m not sure what making teachers hate them (who do you mean by them exactly? It is unclear from what you have typed…) would achieve.
The bad teachers you describe are a tiny minority. I’m not sure that you or anyone else tarring all teachers with the same brush is supposed to achieve…
I could give you plenty of anecdotes of both bad teaching and bad parenting. It does prove anything other than there are bad teachers and bad parents out there. We all know that already so what would be the point.
The existence of bad teachers does not mean parents know best.
Some parents know best some of the time. They make the best decisions they can and within reason should have every right to do so. I would hope that when deciding on something they don’t know about they would consult someone who knows more than they do. I know that I do. Parents all make some mistakes. Parents will all make some bad decisions along with the (hopefully mostly) good ones. However lets not pretend that they are all-knowing. They aren’t.
Parents have the right to make choices. They should.
Within limits parents have the right to make bad choices. Within limits they should.
Most parents do they best they can with the tools and information they have to work with. That is all they can do. On the subject of school, teachers will generally, for obvious reasons, know more about how schools work, how the exams work, the curriculum, their subject and teaching pedagogy than MOST parents. It is surely in the best interests of parents to make use of that greater bank of knowledge. It is similarly in the best interests of teachers to make use of the parents greater knowledge of their children.
However to pretend that ALL parents ALWAYS know what is best for their children is ludicrous. It is also something that can be immediately disproved.
I’m a parent. I do not ALWAYS know what is best for my child. Therefore parents do not ALWAYS know what is best for their children.
‘Certainly they should have a say and be part of the decision making about the child’s education but parents also starve, beat, tie up, and rape their children. They also spoil them rotten and don’t expect them to do anything and teach them that they are “entitled”.’
Now there’s no reason to believe that she means all parents but there is no such qualification here to indicate whether she is talking about most, some, many, any, etc. And then to make a such a strong statement on teachers is to me, just a tactic to subtly attack the role parents have in their child’s lives and hint that teachers know better.
When it comes to the child of a parent, (except for extreme cases like rape or abuse, etc.) I think the parents should be the ultimate authority when it comes to matters such as schooling, I’m not disputing that parents may not know as much about how a school works as a teacher would/should know, but that pales in comparison to the way a parent knows their child. Teachers should be more than accommodating to the parents of students (especially when their salaries are paid by them) and while its not expected that every teacher can make special considerations for every student, in general when parents object teachers (and schools) should listen and do everything possible to address the objection, and either try and appease the parent or explain why its not possible. Teaching shouldn’t just be a job, it is a service, so teachers should serve the parents the best they can. The parents should be given tools to make the decisions for their children not teachers, teachers and schools provide choices for parents. No one expects you to always know what’s best but you should be able to choose when you want assistance or even someone else to choose for you. In my opinion that is the case less and less nowadays.
“And then to make a such a strong statement on teachers is to me, just a tactic to subtly attack the role parents have in their child’s lives and hint that teachers know better. ”
At no point does the writer suggest that parents should not have the right to make decisions. Nor does the writer attack the role of parents. The writer attacjs the BEHAVIOUR of some parents and quite rightly. I find it interesting that people find the suggestion that trained teachers know more about teaching than untrained parents so offensive. To me it’s simply a statement of fact.
“I think the parents should be the ultimate authority when it comes to matters such as schooling,”
They are, within reason. However some parents seem to tthink their every whim should be met, their every demand, no matter how impractical seen to because they pay their taxes (No matter how impractical, unfair or ridiculous)
“I’m not disputing that parents may not know as much about how a school works as a teacher would/should know, but that pales in comparison to the way a parent knows their child.”
Sadly “knowing their child” does not equate to knowing how to teach their child maths. Nor does it equate to knowing how to get their child through exams. These are things about which teachers generally know best. Parents knowledge of their children is important but THAT WASN’T THE QUESTION…
As I keep saying the questions was “Do parents ALWAYS know what is best for their children?”. A question for which the answer is obviously no.
“Teachers should be more than accommodating to the parents of students (especially when their salaries are paid by them) and while its not expected that every teacher can make special considerations for every student, in general when parents object teachers (and schools) should listen and do everything possible to address the objection, and either try and appease the parent or explain why its not possible.”
Most teachers bend of backwards to accomodate reasonable requests from parents. Most teachers do everything they can to cater to the requests and objections of most parents WHEN THEY ARE REASONABLE. Sadly, while most interactions with parents are pleasant and perfectly amicable many objections, requests and demands from parents are in my experience completely unreasonable
Also teachers salaries are not paid ny parents, they are paid for by the state. Pandering to every whim and unreasonable demand of any parents who feel that their child deserves special treatment because they’re different to all the other children in the class is not in my job description. When I consider the hours I have spent listening to parents complaining about their childs undeniably poor behaviour resulting in them being told off or how their child is a kinaesthetic learner i get angry. It’s not my job to pander to special pleading on behalf of one child. I teach over 200 children in my average fortnight. I’m not going to bend or break the school rules because some parents believe their child is special. I do my best for all the children I teach and work with the parents where I can. If that isn’t enough for some parents they are welcome to move their child to another school or teach them at home.
“Teaching shouldn’t just be a job, it is a service, so teachers should serve the parents the best they can.”
Teachers should teach the children as best they can. That is not the same thing at all. Schools are not orphanages for children with parents.
“The parents should be given tools to make the decisions for their children not teachers, teachers and schools provide choices for parents.”
I don’t want to make decisions for parents. I would like my expertise to be respected. I would like people that do not have my training or expertise to acknowledge those facts. I would like to work with parents in a climate of mutual respect. That only happens when we acknowledge each others knowledge, skills, strengths and weaknesses.
Sadly there are those parents who seem to think there aren’t any gaps in their knowledge, that they know how to do the job of teacher better than teachers. That they ALWAYS know best…
Sadly there are a minority of teachers who do not acknowledge the importance or potential of parental involvement in schooling…
I don’t know if you’re referring to me in your alliteration regarding “prejudice prideful prattling professors”, but I do get why some parents may be frustrated and angered by schools and teachers, because I’ve been on both sides of the fence.
Years ago, my mom felt repeatedly unheard by our large urban school district, beginning when I was in 1st grade. By the time I was in high school, she’d just about had it. The school wouldn’t listen to her when she told them that all of the courses they placed me in were not at my instructional level (She was definitely right about that). Eventually, after a lot of arguing, the school agreed to transfer me out of all but one of those courses. I ended up really struggling in the course they kept me in and I would have failed it, if my mom had not returned to school at the end of the year and talked my teacher into passing me –which was not an easy task.
My family moved to the suburbs, my last year of high school, and raised my much younger brother there. I took him to Kindergarten his first day of school, because my folks were out of town and I attended college nearby. Families were invited to stay and observe. The teacher had all the kids color a happy face and, when they finished, she evaluated each picture, one by one, in front of the entire group. She criticized my brother and a couple other kids for not following directions. I was appalled that the teacher was so negative and evaluated kids in public on their very first day in school. When I told my mom, she was concerned, too, and she decided that she was going to do whatever she could to be involved in education there. She became the PTA president and, eventually, she was elected to the school board.
My mom often spoke negatively about teachers. Ultimately, I was finding it difficult to understand how generalized her views towards teachers were though, because by that time, I was a teacher myself, albeit in a different arena and location. I tried to speak with her about it, but she just insisted that I was different from other teachers.
My mom’s perceptions of teachers and her contention that I was the exception to the rule never changed. I think this demonstrates how strongly a series of negative experiences with schools can impact people and their general views of teachers.throughout their lifetimes.
Sorry for the prattling…
Really you tie up, starve, beat and rape your children.. that’s not what’s going on in my house… you’ve got problems.
Please read: http://dianeravitch.net/2012/08/16/what-i-think-about-parents/
Sensationalism like this Ms. Ravitch is not helpful and a tactic beneath your esteemed reputation.
Please read http://dianeravitch.net/2012/08/16/what-i-think-about-parents/
Parents suck ur wrong mine won’t even let me walk down like 12 houses down to go pick up a friend
I am a teacher, the above email does not sound like a response from a dedicated teacher. More likely from a union organizer!