I watched the replay of the Ohio Town Hall specifically to understand what Bernie said about charter schools.
The teacher who posed the question was a TFA charter teacher. She asked a leading question. She asserted that in Ohio, charter schools lead the state in helping poor black and Hispanic children, then she asked whether they should play a role in solving the problems of these children.
To begin with, her assertion was inaccurate. It was propaganda for charters, which in Ohio have experienced numerous financial and academic scandals. In addition, she failed to mention that charters are far more likely to be low-performing than public schools. (See: here and here). Ohio has charter operators who give large campaign contributions and evade accountability. Some Ohio charter owners have made millions.
Bernie Sanders responded that he supports public education, and he supports public charter schools. He then talked about the importance of public schools in building our society and the value of neighborhood public schools. He added that he wants to have innovation and experimentation in schools; he referred to schools in Vermont that are innovative, and stumbled about whether they are public charter schools. Someone, perhaps the host, said, “magnet schools,” and Sanders quickly agreed.
At that moment, I realized that Senator Sanders doesn’t know that most charter schools are privately managed and that all charter schools, even if they are part of a corporate chain or run for-profit, call themselves “public charter schools.”
I am convinced that Senator Sanders does not know much about charter schools. I am also convinced that he sincerely believes in the importance of public schools.
Someone needs to sit down with him and explain that charter schools span the spectrum, but that many are run to make money, that many exclude English language learners and children with disabilities, that charters take resources away from neighborhood public schools, and that many are run by corporate chains.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Agree, but surprised he isn’t aware of this information.
Which is why NPE Action group should not be supporting him.
Debora, NPE Action Fund has not endorsed anyone.
He will listen to you. Please take the initiative. If you post an open letter, every teacher in the country will post it like crazy.
Do it now, Diane. Please! You are an EDUCATOR. OHIO parents and children are under the Charter thumb. Your voice matters. Social Media will carry the message.
Perhaps he needs copies of your books?
I also agree with your analysis. I don’t think Bernie grasps the scope of the issue. But I am confident that he would get it if it were explained to him…preferably by you. The difference between Hillary and Bernie is that he has the capacity to learn and she will pander to whatever audience is in front of her, especially if she can work in a corporate agenda to raise more big money.
Agreed. Please Educate Bernie, Diane.
I agree with GregB completely.
I am convinced he does not and will most likely not care to find out. Why do you give him the benefit of the doubt? His free college plan is a direct threat to public schools. It relies on state funds for state to get the free college from the feds, which means the states would divert public school funds, because who has more political voice? His revolution. And once again public schools will lose out.
Your argument makes no sense whatsoever on so many levels. “…not care to find out”: Bernie has shown over and over again a capacity to admit when he is wrong or uninformed and make amends. Pay attention to his chairmanship of the Veterans Committee. “…direct threat to public schools”? That’s an incredible stretch…Trump-esque even.
Greg, will will the states find the money that he requires them to match for the free college tuition? Most states face deficits and cut public schools and higher education. I find his plan dangerous to public schools.
Steliaa, at this point I don’t think either candidate on the Democrat ticket have a broad or accurate knowledge of charter schools or exactly what the role of vouchers are in the funding problems of public schools. I am sure both candidates would respond to all of calling for them to become educated about the facts of the false reforms and attacks on public education.
I am a Bernie supporter, but I intend to vote for the Democrat in the November election whoever it happens to be. Before making false assumptions about either candidate, please send them an email or letter urging them to talk to Diane. I think you will find that Bernie will respond and I hope that Hillary does also.
Stellaa, the federal government has no authority to tell public colleges that they must be tuition free. That is a state matter. Moreover, since not too far in the distant past we did have very low tuition rates at state schools, it is not such a stretch to believe that we can work toward free college. The assumption that Bernie can get into office and proclaim free college and if he could, believing that everyone, including Congress, governors, state legislatures, the people would roll over and ask by what date is ridiculous. For a man who has worked so hard to return the government to the people, your scenario is beyond my ability to imagine.
Reblogged this on Crazy Normal – the Classroom Exposé.
I would have believed in his revolution if he took on that every zip code in America gets the same funding for public schools, the free college tuition is a populist vote getting ploy, not a revolution.
What? Every zip code should get the same funding? How utterly ridiculous. Why should 90210 get the same as South Central.
“I believe guaranteeing resource equity is a core tenet of the federal government’s role in education policy, and if elected, I will work to reduce the resource disparities that currently exist between schools in wealthy and low-income areas.” — Bernie Sanders
Source:
http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-education/#k-12-education
I am not surprised that he isn’t well versed on the difference because the for profit charter school entities are doing their very best to mislead EVERYONE which especially includes our legislative representatives. That someone needs to sit down with him is obvious and has been obvious for awhile. However, despite attempts from various education activists, his campaign has not made him available for that kind of in depth and NOT misleading conversation. If anyone should be able to gain this kind of access, surely it ought to be Diane Ravitch, right?
Leslie: yes. “…That someone needs to sit down with him is obvious and has been obvious for awhile”.
This is not new – I am so surprised to dip in back here and find folks surprised at Bernie’s ignorance on ®heeform. But it is curious given his position on the Education Committee, no? All I can think is that, unless you have a kid in a public school or are a public school teacher, you just do not know and cannot get it. The story getting echoed here sounds too fantastic to be true “out there”, among people who are not engaged themselves, directly, in a public district school system.
That, for example, Sanders conflates magnets and charters is not surprising either. I would bet dollars to donuts that more than half of LA’s public school magnet parents would themselves be similarly confused. Around here, for example, the fiction is _regularly_ put around, though usually in the other direction by charterers to magneteers, that charters draw the same “elite” crowd. These entities are knowingly, consciously and erroneously conflated *all the time*. And just like that little game John Oliver pulls calling, say, Nebraska South Dakota, most people don’t notice and couldn’t explain the difference if pressed.
I agree 100% with Diane’s conclusion: “…
I am convinced that Senator Sanders does not know much about charter schools. I am also convinced that he sincerely believes in the importance of public schools. ….”
I do hope someone is able to reach him and arrange a tutoring session.
I think you guys are too quick to assume his ignorance. It’s a bit off-putting, actually.
He said that he is against privately controlled charter schools. That word controlled is important. I think that it would be great if he sat down with Ms. Ravitch and worked through some issues, but you realize that Hillary Clinton is a hair’s breath away from giving Wendy Kopp a lifetime achievement award, and Sanders just did a joint press conference with Troy LaRiviere, one of the principals in Chicago who is in the struggle.
Irami
With only a few exceptions, almost all charters are privately controlled. His answer showed he really doesn’t understand charters. Is he opposed to KIPP? Maybe. All charter schools claim to be public.
Virtually all charter schools are privately controlled, and their supporters’ attempts to convince people otherwise is one of the Big Lies of so-called reform.
The mere fact that they feel the need to call themselves “public charter schools” shows the so-called reformers’ defensiveness (rightfully so, since they are compulsive liars, and are perpetually in danger of being exposed) and attempts to mask their true nature.
Charter schools you mean casino schools and like a casino the house wins not the student.
Getting to Sanders is about six degrees of separation. Diane may know someone who knows someone who can get to whom aside from his handlers.
I will work on it.
Diane, if you volunteer for the campaign, you will be about four or three degrees separation from Bernie.
I joke, sort of.
dianeravitch: I will work on it.
I hope you succeed in connecting with him. And with Clinton, too, if you can.
If it is true that Bernie Sanders has a low understanding of charter schools — and it very well may be true — how likely is he to 1) seek counsel on the subject, 2) understand the issues quickly after listening, and 3) take action that will benefit teachers, students, and the public?
…And compared to Hillary?
In other words, which candidate is more inviting to new points of view, the better listener, and more likely to take on the special/elite interests?
Here are two articles on Hillary’s change on her position on Charters: http://www.newyorker.com/?p=3175650, http://politi.co/1LlxHad,
In fact Hillary has changed her position.
Here is the questionnaire from Bernie’s campaign on Charter schools: http://www.aft.org/election2016/candidate-questionnaire-bernie-sanders ( he repeats the non profit vs, for profit notion in a number of places)
I’m glad you think she is listening. What I hear is her talking at people, not to them…and talking at them ALL the time. Ugh!
I thought the same thing, I read an article about this. I think he thinks “public charter schools” are like experimental magnet schools, something like that. He wanted to keep schools under public control, period, that was how I took it. This needs to get to him.
He thinks charter schools are somewhat akin to what they have in Vermont where private schools partner with public schools to provide an education to the children of Vermont. They do not have for profit schools servicing public education students in Vermont. The school districts choose to partner with an academy; they are not forced to divert funding. The public very much has a voice in schooling decisions. That’s not to say there are no disputes just that they are resolved (or not) through democratic means. There are no private entities thumbing their noses at the public’s right to be involved where their students are receiving an education. Where Bernie is falling down is that his understanding of education is based on what he knows about Vermont. He needs to get up to speed since he is running for national office. His focus has obviously been on broad policy issues especially related to the economy. Even his education statements are related to his focus on economics.
Without a doubt, Bernie is the one who will listen and act. He is the ONLY candidate who points to the dreadful percentage of poverty in the U.S., and pointing to its definitive cause–the greed of corporations and wealthy individuals.
And don’t sit out those remaining primaries–get out the vote for Bernie.
(Esp. my friends in the much-suffering state of ILL-Annoy) Vote tomorrow or Tuesday, March 15th.
This time, your vote WILL count.
Bernie 2016.
To whom it may concern
If you have a doubt on Senator Bernie Sanders, then please open the link:
See more at: http://www.aft.org/election2016/candidate-questionnaire-bernie-sanders#sthash.BMtRWLna.dpuf
Question: What are your views on private school vouchers, tuition tax credits, and charter school accountability and transparency?
BS (Bernie Sanders):
I am strongly opposed to any voucher system that would re-direct public education dollars to private schools, including through the use of tax credits. In addition,
I believe:
***that charter schools should be held to the same standards of transparency as public schools, and
***that these standards should also apply to the non-profit and for-profit entities that organize charter schools.
Back2basic
And, BTW, is Hillary being grilled on this? At this point, it doesn’t matter–like the SNL skit Saturday (& thanks to the clever reader who posted it on an earlier blog–it’s a must-see), she will change her story/waffle/say anything to get elected.
A vote for her is a vote for more years of the Obama ed. policies (or, worse, a vote for the GOP–she doesn’t beat at least 2 of the candidates in the latest polls, & she beats Trump by a VERY slim margin, which can, surely, shrink, given what would be, indeed, the most vicious 2-party debates ever seen in the history of the U.S.).
Diane, you are the perfect person to inform Senator Sanders. Please pursue this.
Although most charters are privately managed, in Milwaukee many are under the auspices of the Milwaukee Public School Board. North Carolina is currently considering re start schools that are under the school board with the same flexibility as charters. Of course they can’t duck special Ed. But I am hoping people are realizing that privately managed charters are failures and giving an equal shot at true public schools.
I’m not sure that’s a good direction to go but it’s worth a thought.
Anyway, I’m not sure any candidates have sufficient knowledge in this area. It’s time to educate them.
Sanders met with the BATS, let’s ask them what the meeting covered. I seem to recall that the meeting was long, about a half an hour, and I’m sure that the BATS were pleased at the end. Don’t go by my memory, let’s ask the BATS.
Last time I donated to Bernie, I added a note suggesting he take a few minutes to speak to Rep. Takano of CA. Takano has taught public school, both before and at the beginning of NCLB. Maybe if all Bernie supporters could do something similar, someone on his staff might decide K-12 is important, too?
I really don’t understand this tortured distinction between “public” and “private” charter.
As Diane says, all charters call themselves “public”. And that’s because in some sense they are all public, by definition … as well as that they of course wish to be associated with the warm fuzzies of the term “public”. This latter accounts for Ms R’s droll statement. But the reality itself just doesn’t really make any sense, to claim this distinction.
Around here in LA, CA at least, a school goes to either a local school district, a county education district or the state, to obtain a Charter in a public process for a school. Receiving this charter is public, it is received from a public entity and therefore the charter, all charters, claim themselves to be “public”. As well they receive public money as part of their operating expenses and thereby claim additionally allegiance with the term “public”.
What’s not clear is what happens next, what expectations of transparency in administration are inherent, what are voluntarily adopted, what is monitored or enforced.
And there’s also a difference between what’s required on paper and what happens in reality, and also what a member of the general public has a legal right to enforce or see enforced.
In LA there is a fiscal-dependence distinction made whereby monies come either directly from LAUSD (“affiliated” or “dependent” charters) or directly from the state (“independent” charters); both of these are chartered by a public entity and thereby claim that moniker. In practice the degree of transparency can be very different between schools and not always along this fiscal-dependency line.
At the end of the day I think what we really mean is some sort of “fairness” parameter and the recourse a teacher, parent, student — a stakeholder might have in affecting it. Also in governance. So for example I know there was a big flap over governance meetings with a charter chain called Citizens of the World. Whether governance meetings are public, whether there are posted minutes, and who gets to belong on the school’s boards, and how they are selected — all these things are part of the ‘transparency-picture’. And it’s that which we object to when we say ‘that school’s not public, not really’. If we have no say over what is going on, no recourse for complaint or intervention or change– then it’s not transparent/”public”.
Same for the money. When we don’t know who’s getting subcontracted bids, who was in the running, that there was or was not a running for such work –that’s not transparent/public.
Ditto in treatment of kids. In my public district school if an administrator decrees something I deem unfair, there are layers upon layers of administrators to kick this problem up to. The system may not ultimately incorporate my POV adequately to my mind, or may be culpable or fall down in any number of possible ways before the end. But it isn’t autocratic opaque system where one person says “I don’t like your haircut, find another place to go to school”.
So when we talk about “public” here, it’s in this transparency-sense that we’re refering to.
When Sanders talks about “public”, who knows what he’s meaning, perhaps as suggested by another in the sense of public monies going to the public? I dunno … it just seems to me like a fallacious distinction.
In the charter world, there is no “private” charter by virtue of the definition of the process. In the anti-®heeform world there is no “public” charter by virtue of the functional reality of daily operations.
We’re talking at cross-purposes. And the sooner someone authoritative is afforded the opportunity for a tete-a-tete with The Man, the better. For one and all. Regardless of partisan favor.
For interest, here’s the local teacher union’s backgrounder on charters: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjiyfj7x7_LAhUH62MKHftrAbkQFggiMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.utla.net%2Fsystem%2Ffiles%2Fcharter_primer.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFHLrpk8dyssAM7S3grw-YkzTDYfg&sig2=lExjCO_3QY8A13KYhUvZGQ
And here’s the state charter association’s equivalent nonsense: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjiyfj7x7_LAhUH62MKHftrAbkQFggdMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccsa.org%2FCCSA_Conversions_Brief_2012.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHAKnQVzdIgsHhI2m1ykdeHOb8E-w&sig2=xyHrio6pHJLJvY9I4ROUdw
WARNING: both are old, the UTLA’s is a blessed one-pager, the CCSA’s should be opened only with a full box of wine; it is long and nauseating.
Perhaps that someone could be you, Diane. You have enough prominence that if you asked for some time with him, you could get it. From what I’ve seen, I would agree that he believes in universal public education, but that the way terms are thrown around, he may not be aware of the complexities and implications of charter schools.
Irami, please don’t consider a label of “ignorant” to be off-putting. That’s not the same as “wrong” or “stupid” or “unreachable”. I think there are several here, some prominent, even, who do not favor Sanders overall and yet respect him despite seeing a level of familiarity with this issue as currently sub-par. That’s not the same as prejudice, bias or disfavor with/against him. It is, as they say, an opportunity.
I’ve long marveled at Sanders seeming cluelessness about all this when IMO he’s so spot-on about so much. I think there are only so many hours in a day and this is not an issue he’s been sensitized to. That’s not at all the same as suspecting he cannot be in the future.
I liked tcedre’s words froma comment elsewhere: “…When they say Sanders is a one-issue candidate, they forget the ways economy intersects with education, healthcare, jobs, agriculture, land use, etc. Privatization shapes education in the same ways it shapes so many other areas of our lives. If this was challenged, the definition of charter schools as we know it would change, too. But, the root of this is much deeper….”
Sanders does not — presently — see the inherent fallout (I would argue equivalence but limiting this to sequelae is sufficient) of the link between charters and privatization. But to the extent he sees the link, he is opposed to it.
Teachers need to tweet at Sen. Sanders and multiple members of his campaign staff to meet with Diane Ravitch. Tell him he’s within reach of getting the public school teacher vote. He’s getting closer, but needs to take a further step, which he can’t do until he gets more knowledgeable about charters. Post on all the various FB pages and on Reddit. The campaign must monitor social media. Email his campaign office, Use the phone. Urge a meeting with Diane. Urge campaign staff to study Diane’s books. Now.
Cross-posting. Please share. Here’s what Anti-Rahm, anti-charter CPS Principal Troy LaRaviere has to say: “Bernie Sanders is definitely not afraid to take on the system. That he look beyond that system and sees better possibilities for us. He sees that this is not the way it has to be. That is why I support Bernie Sanders.”
“She asserted that in Ohio, charter schools lead the state in helping poor black and Hispanic children,”
God, did she really say that? Maybe she doesn’t know I could say exactly the same thing about public schools, depending on which schools I choose:
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/03/10/study-6-columbus-public-and-charter-schools-shine-but-most-in-ohios-big-cities-fail.html
If they’re saying stuff like this in Ohio, the national leader in horrendous ed reform, why should anyone believe them on anything else?
While you are making sure that Sanders is fed the company line on the vexed question of charter schools, you should also make sure he has the straight dope on a larger issue that affects far greater numbers of children–“neighborhood schools!” and school segregation. Make sure he reads the Orfield/UCLA reports like this one: http://civilrightsproject.ucla.edu/research/k-12-education/integration-and-diversity/ny-norflet-report-placeholder/Kucsera-New-York-Extreme-Segregation-2014.pdf. Most neighborhood schools, by design and intention, do not bring together people of different races and classes.
Sanders is a good man and he will have done a great service in forcing Clinton to address his supporters’ concerns, and to prepare her for what will be a bruising (if not particularly competitive) general election. However, he represents a state that looks nothing at all like the rest of America (thus his sometimes shaky handle on urban issues, like charter schools) and that is arguably more politically homogeneous than even the reddest red states. It is easy to accuse others of pandering or triangulation when you have that sort of support.
Diane, thanks for giving Bernie a fair shake! Please do make every effort to meet with him and/or his top staff, it is SO important. Bernie needs your input, and just as important, public opinion is shifting as a result of the policy debates in the presidential campaign, public education should be a bigger part of that conversation.
I hate to be a contrarian, but Sanders comes from the US Senate. The assumption in DC is charter schools are better than public schools. If one listens to any of their debates you’ll see this is true.
If Sanders believes charter schools are better than public schools, he’s in a huge majority in Congress. As far as I can tell they all believe it. They don’t hear about the for-profit outfits like White Hat in Ohio and the fact that Michigan is 80% for-profit charters is never mentioned. The cherry-picking begins at the top.
The only testimony they take is from “high performing” charters in Boston or DC or NYC or New Orleans. They’re not investigating any of this. It’s a weirdly parochial view of charter schools- it’s centered on 4 cities.
*** NEW VIDEO – Bernie clarifies his position:
“I don’t support privately-managed charter schools.”
http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/02/24/ohio-democratic-town-hall-bernie-sanders-private-charter-schools.cnn/video/playlists/iowa-democratic-town-hall/
I was able to explain some of this to Senator Sanders when he was in Chicago this past weekend.
We were not able to get as in depth as I would have liked but he seemed concerned and troubled by what he heard.
Could ask for more than that given the time constraints.
That was on Friday. On Saturday morning he focused most of his press conference on supporting public schools and he also heavily criticized Rahm Emanuel’s mismanagement of our schools.
It was the kind of supportive response you would expect given his record of support for public education and his understanding of the ills of hyper-privatization.
For reference, here are his remarks from the Chicago Press Conference.
I am so glad you got the chance to speak with him. You are a perfect person to clue him into the issues that face urban schools, especially with what has happened in Chicago. Keep up the good fight.
A lot of speculation about what Bernie does or doesn’t know. I guess his stance has been hiding in plain site:
From http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-education/
“Speaking of public funding of privately run organizations, where does Bernie stand on charter schools?
Bernie does not oppose charter schools — that is, schools that are privately managed but funded by taxes. Indeed, Bernie voted for the Charter School Expansion Act of 1998. Nonetheless, Bernie believes that these institutions must be “held to the same standards of transparency as public schools” to ensure accountability for these privately managed organizations. It is worth noting that while charter schools are privately managed, they do not charge tuition to students and are considered public schools.
Bernie’s stance on charter schools is similar to that of both the AFT and the NEA, which do not oppose charter schools, but seek to ensure that they are run in ways that benefit the students. The NEA, for example, shares Bernie’s concern that these schools must be run transparently to increase accountability: “As taxpayer-funded schools, charter schools must operate in a manner that is transparent and accountable to the families and communities they serve.”
His stance does not reflect ignorance, but rather a political position. The opt-out movement bolstered politicians anti-testing stance. We need a similar “opt-in” movement for public schools and improvement strategies that will actually make a difference.
http://www.arthurcamins.com
I’m glad you were able to talk with Sanders about this issue. I live in VT and agree with Diane Ravitch’s assertion that he is not up to speed on this issue. He is absolutely committed to public education, but the charter discussion has been largely absent in VT since we don’t have charter schools. We do, on the other hand, have a very complicated system of school “choice,” some of which is a historical relic, some of which is a byproduct of geography and population (towns too small to have high schools, for instance, where parents can opt for public or private schools in their vicinity), and some of which is being driven by current forces of privatization. I think that Burlington is the only city or town in VT with magnet schools (2), though there may be others I’m unaware of. Largely, we don’t have the population centers to support options like that. I think that Bernie isn’t aware of the ins and outs of charters in large urban areas and I suspect that if he knew more he would oppose the use of public education as a corporate cash cow, not to mention what passes for education in many charters.
I think the nuances of this argument are important and Sanders is educable. There are many very high performing and innovative, genuinely public charter schools that have good oversight and are improving education across school systems, like in Boston, DC, NYC, but also San Diego and other cities too.
Let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let’s instead regulate the spoiled, for-profit muddy water out of the system.
Sanders does not have some secretive agenda. He definitely seems to be a presidential candidate “For the People” and the fact that he heard you and took the time to dig deeper between your brief meeting and the press conference the next day on a Saturday morning… He may not have a clear picture of public education right now but he sure cares enough to try and he has no corporate sponsors to APPEASE either!
Again, Bernie is the ONLY candidate who points to the crushing poverty in the wealthiest nation in the world–& the reason (greed of corporations, individuals, Wall St) which ties it all together. That’s why he keeps repeating this message–over & over–because, apparently, some people still don’t get it. I know you pro-public ed./people who care about our kids, their school, their parents & the teachers get it. Again, let’s not nit-pick, here. He’s the guy we’ve been waiting for for a long, long time–& he doesn’t know every single thing about every single issue (how could anyone?). But look who’s backing him–Troy LaRaviere & C.O.R.E. (Karen Lewis). Diane, take a meeting with him.
Super Tuesday voters–vote Bernie.
Bottom line–he gets it, & he’ll get it done for our schools, our kids, our parents & our teachers.
I know that we can’t expect politicians to know everything, but if you want people to vote for you you expand your political knowledge to include public education. As an educator it makes a difference. I am not giving Bernie a pass on this. Charter schools are an attack on the public education system. They skim the best kids off the top and largely exclude special ed students. For someone who is for social justice, how can he say he is in favor of charter schools?
I completely feel the same way. Come on Diane, I’ve been wondering who you think is our best candidate. Bernie is the best shot at overhauling the big problem…corporations and the billionaires club. That will hit the target with public school,privatization. Just have the public conversation with him. He needs to hear the educators and you are our best advocate and spokesperson!!!!! I’m with you retired butmissthekids!!!!!
Bernie is the only candidate that is truly progressive. While I believe he supports public schools, he needs to understand more about the corporate influence that is undermining public education, its impact on poor families and neighborhoods, its influence on public policy and segregation as well as some key terms and definitions. He seems only to be aware that charters are tax havens for the 1%. He needs some guidance understanding the bigger picture.
This is a very good example of the sort of thing Sanders has been criticizing, the privatization of public goods. I’m disappointed that he is not informed about this particularly important, very egregious case.
The time for subtlety is over. The charter school operators are looting the welfare state, attempting to appropriate public resources, to the detriment of American children and families. The D’s are letting them do it and the R’s probably would do worse. Stop!
Thank you Eleanor for the link from which, I have the other link as follows with many wonderful and positive comments from readers. I hope that someone in this thread will find it helpful. Back2basic
A Conversation with Bernie Sanders (In 1988)
***28 years ago Bernie Sanders appeared on C-SPAN and spoke about many of the same issues he speaks about today: money in politics, income inequality, jobs, education, health care for all, women’s rights, war and peace, and race (and class) in America.
***He’s like a fountain of truth
***From 17:20 to 21:50 the man proves he’s a head of his time…if only we had listened to him way back then.
***Watch the speech he gave for why he was voting no for the war in iraq, he nailed it.
***I have never heard any politician talk like this. Bernie Sanders is the Messiah to save mankind (in America).
***So good to see he hasn’t changed and that after all this time he’s still trying to wake people up. I guess it took running for the presidency for people to finally take notice, altough I am almost certain nothing will change because the opression is so gradual and unnoticable and people seem to be placated with whatever draws their attention in their day to day.
***God, how I love this man’s mind and heart. #BernieSanders for President! #FeelTheBern
***This is why he is the only legitimate Presidential candidate for 2016.
***This guy is going to have a memorial statue/monument in DC one day. God bless him.
This is why he is the only legitimate Presidential candidate for 2016.
This guy is going to have a memorial statue/monument in DC one day. God bless him.
I think he’s clarified:
“@BernieSanders says he does not want to see money leave the public schools: public charters yes, magnets yes, but not private charters.”
I have no idea what this means.
It’s truly frightening that so many people in Congress have no idea what they’re talking about and they’re busily privatizing public schools as fast as humanely possible.
What Sanders said is the same thing Lamar Alexander said, and it makes no sense:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/02/05/what-a-senators-confusion-about-charter-schools-illuminates/
We may be doomed. They don’t know what public schools are, let alone charters 🙂
The source of the problem (once again) is that ‘reformers” have quite purposefully bastardized the language (the word “public” in this case) and thereby confused even smart people like Sanders.
The folks behind this bastardization are evil geniuses well schooled in propaganda techniques (probably at public private schools)
By the time these folks get done, much of the English language will be meaningless.
SomeDAM Poet: yes.
SomeDAM Poet: what’s old is new again.
Still relevant: George Orwell, “Politics and the English Language” (1946). The link will provide a pdf file—
Link: http://www.npr.org/blogs/ombudsman/Politics_and_the_English_Language-1.pdf
Thank y’all for your comments.
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That George Orwell essay is one of my favorites. The subversion of the English language to mislead the public is so dangerous to democracy.
Bernie needs to reread this essay. Or have a talk with Noam Chomsky.
Maybe he means “for profit versus non profit”?
If so, do members of the United States Senate really believe “non profit” = “public”?
My health insurer is non-profit., under tax law. It isn’t public. Can they really not know the difference?
Bernie Sanders is solidly and historically ANTI-privatization.
He is solidly and historically PRO-public schools, neighborhood schools and teachers.
There is simply no way this man supports what is going on in charter schools today.
But yes, someone should sit down and explain to him the gruesome details.
And that person should be you, Diane!
Am I the only one that saw a wink from the question asker, after Bernie said he was against private charters? Or am I losing it?
Saw it too, but–nah. Not a wink. A neuro-twitch, perhaps because his answer did not satisfy her need to slam public education.
I support Senator Sanders. But Secretary Clinton knew that the Detroit public schools were under state control.
We need to hear an in-depth interview with both candidates strictly on education issues.
You know what’s sad? There has been ample discussion on charters and vouchers in the Presidential race, but NOTHING on public schools.
How amazing is that complete omission of the schools most children attend by our politicians? The extent of the capture is remarkable. Public schools don’t even rate a mention anymore. They’ve been disappeared.
I know public schools are unfashionable in DC circles, but this is ridiculous.
Chiara. I am with you on this. The public system is invisible, literally not in public view.
SomeDAM Poet has it right.
The commandeering of the word “public” is one of many tools of the well-funded and multifaceted campaign to destroy public education and to realize Milton Friedman’s dream of education “service providers” operating in an unregulated market serving customers who make choices—except for the part about the public subsidies for profit seekers and the buyer beware ethos being created, and the disregard for “expensive-to-educate” students…
Just keep upping the importance of having the right stuff to overcome the odds–which for the moment means getting you grit on and a growth mindset.
“SomeDAM Poet
March 14, 2016 at 8:33 am
The source of the problem (once again) is that ‘reformers” have quite purposefully bastardized the language (the word “public” in this case) and thereby confused even smart people like Sanders.”
Why is it such a silo, though? The one and only place “non profit” means “public” is in ed reform. No one else does this, in any sector.
There are private retirement plans that are non profits- they’re under a different section of the tax code. Are they ‘the same” as Social Security? Of course not.
Only in ed reform does “non profit” = “public” apply. Under this analysis nearly every private college is “public”. No one accepts that for colleges. Why would they for k-12 schools?
It’s no different from the way I am resigned to being “pro-Choice” and never ‘pro-abortion’.
It’s just semantics, market-driven, focus-grouped semantics.
And the reason none of these Washington pols has any clue of the true nature and racket of charter schools, is because none of them has experienced this, and none of their friends has either. Their kids go or went to, or send their own kids(the grand kids) to private school, or non-representative, outlier-status super-high-performing public schools.
I sent my kids to a well-regarded private school for ES that harbored the conceit of being “quasi-public” (I’m not kidding), and attempted to engage its parents in the plight of truly public schools, but wound up matriculating private MS –> Ivy League College? I don’t actually know precisely what that was supposed to mean.
But the bottom line is: they are *all* clueless, and it’s hard to blame any one of them for what none of them knows.
But you can select on first principles. Sanders is thoroughly opposed to neoliberalism. And that’s that.
BTW, there are some very famous academic researchers and nominal supporters of public school at that private ES. The children of one of them even taunted my child as “stupid” (surprisingly so as in “I thought you were smart but…”) since she was matriculating at public MS. Out of the mouths of babes….
redqueeninia, “pro-choice” is actually a more accurate description than pro-abortion. It means that you want the choice of whether or not to have an abortion to be available, not that you are encouraging anyone to have an abortion.
In fact, it is the “pro-lifers” who are trying to use language to deceive. Those people are against abortions, period. They are, in fact, anti-choice or anti-abortion.
Some of the people who call themselves “pro-life” have no problem inducing a “birth” of a fetus with serious issues at 20 or 25 weeks knowing that inducing the birth that early is inconsistent with life. But an “abortion” by any other means is considered wrong.
And many people who are pro-choice are also pro-life. They would choose not to abort, but they want to keep the choice available to others. So it is the use of the term “pro-life” to refer only to people who want to forbid the choice to ALL women is a misuse of language. Many people are pro-life, but it is a subset of those people who are also anti-abortion and anti-choice.
From NCLB to RttT to ESSA the underlying goal has been consistent: undermine confidence in democratically governed public education in order to use tax dollars to finance privatization. The subtext is that it is not possible to ensure a sound education for all children in all schools, so we should save a few. Disruption of children’s live is accepted as the price of innovation even though there is no evidence that charter schools are any more innovative than other publically financed and democratically governed schools. The underlying message is that the solution to often dysfunctional school boards is to avoid rather than improve democracy.
Chater schools have developed entrenched constituencies, but they have yet to fulfill the promise of either transferable innovations or widespread equity while undermining local school districts and increasing racial and socioeconomic isolation. Nonetheless, curtailing their spread, much less defunding their existence, seems to be an untouchable political third rail. This is the too-hot-to-handle version of cynicism. Then, there is the small dreams cynicism that derives from the pessimism of, “We can’t save everyone.”
It is easier to oppose over-testing of the overreaching Common Core State Standards and support expanded access to post-secondary education, but public governance of public schools is at the very heart of democracy.
Sanders has been the candidate of big hopes. I hope his support of charter schools is not a turn toward cynicism on education. See: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arthur-camins/hopers-are-the-real-pragm_b_9376324.html
http://www.arthurcamins.com
This is interesting. In Los Angeles, we found it easier to oppose privatization than to oppose standardized testing. When the huge amounts of money started coming in to oppose school board members in favor of businessmen, we said No. When our now former mayor Villaraigosa tried to take control of the schools, we said No. But testing? Our teachers and parents and students have not been so quick to see the connection.
Karen Wolfe: good catch.
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Can we pass a hat and hire someone to ask a question about public schools at one of these things?
That’s the only way our schools will ever be mentioned, apparently. Clearly not a top priority for lawmakers.
Now they’re all vowed their eternal devotion to charters and vouchers, maybe public schools could be heard from?
I was glad education came up but the question was so bogus, like you say.
During the debate, I began tweeting some charts and quotes dispelling the myth that parents are pushing for choice. We are not. Overwhelmingly, parents would rather their neighborhood school get better funded than the neighborhood get more choices.
Everything got overly complicated through the years. In my time ( in the 30s -40) Schools were either PUBLIC or PAROCHIAL. People whose children were privately tutored or were sent to some exclusive learning institute were few and far in between. What it boils down to is; we desperately need to upgrade the public school system for the benefit of ALL instead of the fractured system where NOBODY WINS in the end.
Yes, Bernie must have all the facts.
Bernie sits on the education committee. He should know a lot more than he does about charters. Last time we gave someone a pass, Obama, and look what happened. I believe Hillary probably knows more and will be more supportive of public education. I think she has gotten religion and will include teachers. The Hillary bashing sometimes leads to hero worshiping and unwarranted passes which may well come back to haunt us.
They both support charter schools. I am afraid they both buy the premise that if we can’t save everyone, we should save a few. It is an abdication of responsibility: http://wpo.st/c5kL1
Bernie did say, in the meeting last night, that he opposes money leaving the public schools. How does he think charters are funded? He needs to understand that not only is money leaving public schools, but complicit governors and legislatures are deliberately trying to starve public schools to make them fail. This economic drain is harming our students and limiting the types of courses that can be offered. http://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/most-states-have-cut-school-funding-and-some-continue-cutting
He may be thinking about what charter schools were originally intended to be: laboratories testing out ideas to bring back to the public schools. I wish that was actually happening, but it’s not. Sigh. Diane, I bet he’d listen to you.
http://www.bipps.org/bluegrass-beacon-clear-case-for-pension-transparency-takes-bizarre-turn/
Check this out, Diane.
You may quibble about semantics concerning Bernie’s education policies.
I for one am satisfied that when he says not to take money away from public schools and give it to charters, that public schools are underfunded, that satisfies me.
Too, as mentioned, and some above at least have hinted at it – some have spoken well there –
Look at the totality of what he is saying concerning this country and the effect, if he is president ON THE CONDITIONS which affect schools, children and our country
.
I for one also devoutly wished that questions had been asked and at the last part of this town meeting, he commented that
He wished that there had been questions concerning climate change.
In my view, NOTHING, NOTHING is more important to the future of our children, out planet and our country.
I have written to Obama and every other politician concerning this. If this is not solved no other accomplishment will mean anything for posterity, the long run.
That is not just my view but the view of 97% of the world’s best climatologists but the media will not focus on that
and
it seems neither do many of the teachers in this blog.
As much as I would like to hear Bernie make a speech something like what Diane might say, I am more interested in the whole of his agenda. I like his position on the on economy and the unraveling of our democracy. I would like to hear more about what he has to say about foreign relations, including the war on terror and immigration beyond his feelings about amnesty. Like you, Gordon, I need to hear a clear position on climate change, clean energy, and environmental protection. There are so many questions that are not being asked yet of any candidate; the focus has been on the best sound bites.
2old2teach, go to this website for details: http://feelthebern.org/
Thanks for reminding me, Ed Detective. I have been focusing on the speechifying. I ran across a speech he gave last November at Georgetown that I found quite enlightening in a lot of areas: http://teacherpoetmusicianglenbrown.blogspot.com/2015/11/isnt-this-what-we-all-want-for-america.html
Don’t just wail about his ignorance. *You* should be the one to sit down with him and educate him. NOW. His instincts are good. He has a heart. Give him the facts and he will make good choices.
Actually I was watching that closely myself. I think Sanders clearly supports public education and used the words PUBLIC charter schools in the same breath. I agree he needs to have someone articulate what charters stand for in most of the states, however, I did not at all get the feeling he supports charters at all in the way the TFA teacher posed the question.
From his comments, I thought Bernie might be confusing charter schools with magnet schools. Charters drain public schools of funding, and magnet schools offer a different type of program without harming public schools.
Retried teacher, I agree. I think Sanders is not aware of what charters are and how they harm public education.
The problem is the States run the school system and so they differ in definition and form across the various states. In California, we have public charter schools within the public school system. They are more like a magnet or Montessori type. Other states differ.
The bottom line when voting for candidates should be this:
Do they depend on rich billionaires who believe in privatizing education for their funding?
I think we all neglected to see how much President Obama was funded by the Wall Street pro- privatization crowd. He also had the support of lots of regular folks, but he was very close to those billionaires as well. Just as Clinton is.
Bernie Sanders isn’t. Period. He may be wrong about charters (I suspect his definition of “public” doesn’t include the big no-excuses chains). But his views will not be swayed by what the billionaires want. But any candidate close to Eli Broad and his co-believers is going to pander to that funding.
You are so correct on NYC public school parent. Bernie is NOT beholden to any billionaire, or wall street, and does not have a super-pac. When I read an article about the amount that’s in Hillary’s super-pac, I was in shock to read that it had amassed $35 million. OMG, I wonder what quid pro quo will Hillary be making with her donors.
So I say that this is a definitely a learning moment for Bernie to get more info about charter schools. I’m pretty sure his campaign managers will educate him on that. I truly believe Bernie will restore the importance of why we have public schools and funding all public schools the way it should be funded.
To all veteran educators:
Joy in learning is the basic or foundation in education.
In order to have children who love learning, we need to have a stabilized family. A single parent or both parents have a secure job that can provides a decent wage for family to live by.
Living cost is above and beyond middle class’ earning income. This infers lower middle class and labor class cannot enjoy a stabilized family, or their children DO NOT have joy in learning.
I really look up to Presidential Candidate who can honestly speak out the truth about their platform or their strategy that is eligible and practical to
***stop corruption = human legal system = NOT political “incorrect” legal system.
***stop outsourcing all IMPORTANT manufacturing jobs from America.
(= unemployment)
***stop blindly supporting rich immigrants through college/university education
(= private scheme under misguided international relation to funnel money in and out America)
***stop tax break on the extreme wealthy family.(jet, yacht, sport car, luxury enjoyment)
***stop insurance scheme and investing scheme that damage people’s lives
***promote a decent wage for working class both white and blue collars = control manipulation in living cost, like rental and basic staples (foods +toiletry). Back2basic
GEEZE, DIANE, YA THINK?
HAVE I NOT BEEN BEGGING YOU FOR SIX MONTHS TO BE THT PERSON?
Politicians don’t have to know about everything. More importantly, they shouldn’t pretend they know everything.
Instead of trying to convince Sanders to change his campaign-saturated mind, it may be more likely that he could be persuaded to say “Well, I heard that many charter schools harm public schools but some are working well. I dunno enough of the subject to say more at this point. Once I am president, I’ll listen to both sides.”
How can he be persuaded? Perhaps just ask him a single question “What do you mean by ‘public charter school’? We, at Columbia university (NYU, Urbana, whatever) have never heard the expression. “
Someone has to talk the reality to him.
Wow-I just googled and saw tons of articles saying Bernie does not support private charter schools. Just shows how little the press and public know about education. Hopefully Diane can explain that charters are “public” in name.. All of us need to educate the public that charters leave the public out. Scary now the charters scammers can just say they are public not the private charters that Bernie does not support.
Longtime reader here though I don’t know if I’ve ever posted anything.
I’ve opted out of standardized testing last year and this year in CO because of educating myself on the relationships between testing and corporate profits. I’ve read a couple of Diane’s books, and understand why for-profit charter schools are hated.
But as a couple of commenters above noted (Jared Chapman and Dawn G), true PUBLIC charter schools do exist, in the format originally envisioned for charter schools. And it is confusing, to say the least, when those are lumped together with the corporate for-profit charter schools and called the same thing. Apples & oranges, they are different, so let’s call them different names. Make it part of the semantics. The reformers may have co-opted the word “charter school” but it gets reinforced by conversations on every pro-public education blog I’ve seen.
My child goes to one of these PUBLIC charter schools and I’m grateful for the opportunity. I would have been ok with her going to the neighborhood school too, but know that it wouldn’t have been the academic challenge that she thrives on.
Now I am confused.
IF it is funded by taxpayer money , it is NOT a charter school, but may be in the category in which my last school was placed… a MAGNET SCHOOL.
There is definitely y a great need, as there was in Manhattan, for a public school that addresses the needs of the OTHER special needs kids… like my own grandkids, who were reading when they were 3.
Yes, we were called ‘elitist’ because the kids had to take a test in order to apply, but we looked at the whole child, and each applicant that passed the test, sat in the classes for a week, after which we teachers decided who would best benefit from 3 years in a small school where everyone knew your name!
We accepted many a child who did poorly on citywide tests, IF they demonstrated in the classes a desire to learn. We had few behavior issues beyond typical middle school stuff back then before cellphones and the internet, whites a good ting as we had no budget for any support services .
Yes, we turned kids away. It benefited NO unskilled 12 year old to sit in a class where everyone could read the 8 grade science text. But for the children like “Treesha’s’ there was a real public school to meet her special needs to LEARN!
AND we gave rewards for performance, and that motivated kids in ways that punishment never could.
This discussion, sadly, is ourdated, since Sanders now has little chance of winning the nomination.
This is NOT true. There are 27 primaries and caucuses between now and June 7, which is the day we expect to overtake Hillary Clinton’s campaign in pledged delegates needed to win the nomination.
There are 27 primaries and caucuses between now and June 7, which is the day we expect to overtake Hillary Clinton’s campaign in pledged delegates needed to win the nomination. Your support for Bernie now means that we can keep fighting for our political revolution. In the next 7 days, the Clinton campaign is hosting 7 fundraisers where some high-dollar donors will bundle at least $27,000 each.
The average contribution to Bernie’s campaign is just $27.
Why not contribute instead of making him a loser .
https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/twenty-seven-dollars?refcode=em160316-e&amount=27
“Why not contribute instead of making him a loser .”
strong words for no reason, plus I have been contributing. 🙂
Good…. I have been contributing too, but you say that he has little chance,
Just saying’ that you are not alone in saying that– I read it on blogs all over the internet. My answer is simply we need to realize that THIS IS NOT OVER…. she was from Arkansas… the south was hers… let’s wait before we think he can’t do it.
What’s worrisome is Ohio. Not a single large city went to Bernie. Not even places full of college kids like Columbus or Cleveland
http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/ohio
I worry ,too.
Yes, Bernie came very close to taking her home state, Illinois. She ruled in the counties that are more likely to vote what they feel is a safe bet, Chicago and its environs. Bernie won everywhere else.
Is there a likelihood that Hillary would choose Bernie as VP?
But yeah, one thing seems to be clear: it’s not (just) Sanders but the modern (socialist) ideas he advocates that are getting popular, and a smart president has to deal with that reality. A not so smart will try to ignore it for 4 more years.
I don’t know if the reason for these socialist ideas becoming popular is that Americans travel more or because of the economic pressures on the lower 90% which includes most young people. I hope the latter, since that pressure is much more persistent and primal than cultural influences.
We already are quite happy with socialist Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid despite what the extremist element of the Republican party says, and I doubt many are rejecting the benefits on principle. We just have to get past the knee jerk reaction to the term that has been carefully cultivated. Roosevelt instituted a lot of socialist programs that made him very unpopular with the high muckety mucks and those who bought their mantra, but a lot of people made it through the Great Depression because of those programs.
What you will not hear from the political and media establishment is that, based on the primary and caucus schedule for the rest of the race, this is the high water mark for the Clinton campaign. Starting today, the map now shifts dramatically in Bernie’s favor.
Arizona, Idaho, and Utah are up next Tuesday. Alaska, Hawaii, and Washington State caucus the Saturday after. Then it’s Wisconsin’s turn to vote. That means he has an extremely good chance to win nearly every state that votes in the next month.
“Then it’s Wisconsin’s turn to vote. ”
So Wisconsin is more favorable than OH? Those guys elected Walker….
That doesn’t matter. Hillary still needs to feel the Bern. In one sense, the candidate does not matter, the agenda does. I do want her to fell that she can dance off into the sunset with Broad and all her hedgefund buddies.
Almost all of Bernie’s presidential platform are not “socialist” ideas. They are social democratic policies, essentially reform/social welfare capitalism — just like northern Europe. He is not quite advocating for workers to take control the means of production and distribution (socialism), even if he wishes that in his heart and sees it somewhere in the future.
The trouble with Bernie’s chances is that he must now win by large margins in the majority of states, and cannot lose by much (if at all) in the larger states. He will win the majority of states going forward — but he must not only win those states, he needs to win them by a relatively large margin. Google “democratic primary projections” for details.
Not too likely, but his entire campaign was never likely. It’s not over yet…
I can’t see Bernie picking Hillary as her VP, after all the garbage she’s thrown at him during the primary season, and after Bernie has tried so hard to distance himself from her by raising issues of her corruption (though of course Sanders does not specifically use that word.) Neither can I see Hillary choosing Bernie — she would be biting the hand of her corporate sponsors as well as the political establishment. Bernie also would have come close to stealing her coronation, and that’s not something you simply put behind you. I do see Hillary as a spiteful person — that is simply politics as usual, and Hillary descends from the old school of politics. Just my hunch and speculation here.
A hunch. well here are some facts:http://www.opednews.com/articles/Hillary-Is-A-Neocon-by-David-Swanson-Hillary-Clinton_Hillary-Clinton_Neocon-Expansionism_Neocon-Failures-160317-17.html#comment588384
Dick Cheney, said: “I have a sense that she’s one of the more competent members of the current administration and it would be interesting to speculate about how she might perform were she to be president.” –
She says President Obama was wrong not to launch missile strikes on Syria in 2013.
She pushed hard for the overthrow of Qadaffi in 2011.
She supported the coup government in Honduras in 2009.
She has backed escalation and prolongation of war in Afghanistan.
She voted for the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
She skillfully promoted the White House justification for the war on Iraq.
She does not hesitate to back the use of drones for targeted killing.
She has consistently backed the military initiatives of Israel.
She was not ashamed to laugh at the killing of Qadaffi.
She has not hesitated to warn that she could obliterate Iran.
She is not afraid to antagonize Russia.
She helped facilitate a military coup in Ukraine.
She has the financial support of the arms makers and many of their foreign customers.
She waived restrictions at the State Department on selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates, Oman, and Qatar, all states wise enough to donate to the Clinton Foundation.
She supported President Bill Clinton’s wars and the power of the president to make war without Congress.
She has advocated for arming fighters in Syria.
She supported a surge in Iraq even before President Bush did.
and John Podesta is her ‘handler.’! Need I say more
We don’t have any charter schools in VT and there are only 2 magnet schools (Burlington is our only urban area) so Bernie needs some educating about how charters are destroying public education elsewhere. The handful of “private academies” here in VT are a very peculiar hybrid of public & private that, as far as I know, don’t exist anywhere else.
Thanks for bringing this to attention. PLEASE educate Sanders and keep holding him accountable for support of charters. They create segregated communities and siphon public support as well as funds from public neighborhood schools.