I just watched my interview with Randi Kaye.
I am happy to say that the editors clipped out her opening question, in which she tried to use NAEP scale scores as “grades” for the U.S., , which they are not.
A scale is a trend line. It is better to see scores go up than down. The scale itself is an artificial construct (as all scales are). It is not aligned with any standards. You can’t say that a 300 is good or bad, you can only say that it is higher than 350 and lower than 400.
When scale scores go up, it is usually only by a few points. Depending on many factors, a 1-point gain may be statistically significant–or not.
Randi Kaye asserted at the opening of our interview that a scale score of 250 was “proof” that U.S. education was failing because 250 is 50% of 500. She turned that into a failing grade. She forgot to mention that students at the 90th percentile in achievement have a scale score of 276, so by her lights, they must be failing too. She just didn’t understand the numbers, nor did her editors and researchers. We battled about this for what seemed to be 3 minutes, which is an eternity on television.
They dropped that exchange, which I assume means that they realized–because of my letter yesterday–and your responses–that her question was nonsensical and made CNN look stupid.
The rest of the interview consisted of her relentless effort to “prove” that US education is failing: Look at failure in Highland Park, which was recently turned over to a for-profit charter corporation; look at American corporations outsourcing jobs to low-paying China and India, never to nations with a standard of living equal to ours; look at this hostile letter (oh, she left out the other one, from the guy who said I was not competent to talk about education).
Is CNN trying to become the new FOX?
Diane
Web source shows Randi Kaye is a1981 graduate of Mountain High School in West Orange, NJ, then on to Boston Univ. Good to see she was able to rise above her “flawed” public school background. I’m sure her teachers are proud of her today.
I missed it…Forgot that you are in Eastern time….hopefully someone will post a video link as soon as available.
It’s not that these journalists uncritically accept the premises of corporate education reform, but rather they’re afraid that their managers will leave them alone with Michelle Rhee and her broom, and that their daughters will be left alone with her pedophile husband, Kevin Johnson.
Yes philaken – why hasn’t Diane been on Moyers? We all need to make that case to Mr. Moyers.
Diane – you were great in your clear concise ANSWERS that directly responded to her questions – something that Rhee and other rhetoricists just don’t and can’t do.
As for the assumption that Kaye is purposefully forwarding the corporate spin – I don’t believe for one minute that any of these main stream journalists know the complex truths about education reform much less understand the field of education. I find it difficult to keep up myself and I work at it full time as both an educator and a journalist.
In the end though – I think we are looking at it wrongly. First of all the strategy of presenting one letter from one child and expecting the public to accept that as analogous of all children is indicative of the of a journlist’s inability to present a valid argument and also must be seen by the public/parents as a sign of their disrespect for their intelligence and what they know as reality.
My guess is that the reason that shills like Rhee and Steve Perry get so much air time, and it’s hard for experts like Diane, is because the journalists who interview them don’t have to ask the difficult questions and don’t have to worry about responding to the answers. I find Soledad O’Brien to be different in that regard because she boldly reaches out for real answers to real questions. She is intelligent enough and skilled enough to understand that when she asks real/relevant questions that a purely rhetorical empty response is just that and she reaches deeper. A real journlist asks questions as though he/she is seeking a real answers, not as bait or for ratings effect. Has she ever interviewed you Diane?
Diane – you had not only real answers that were clear and concise and countered Kaye’s misleading commentary but you were able to profit from repetition of those answers by rewording and reapplying them to other questions throughout your interview. That is a very effective way to “teach.” On the other hand we all suffer the endless repetitious rhetoric of reform and its vocabulary and empty responses that make the speaker appear to be brainwashed and having memorized a script because he/she can’t craft a real answer to a real question. The repetitious delivery though is quite different – one effectively reinforcing a concept and truly engaging the listener while the other dulls our minds and does not give the listener the ability to use it in any other way than to parrot the response. That’s why we can tell a “reformer” from an educator as soon as they open their mouths.
I think opportunities like this are of much greater import than being interviewed by someone who is obviously supporting the guest. The fact is, there is no way that Kaye could have overcome your excellent case.
Thank you Diane for being who you are. After 35 years of successful teaching, I am beginning to feel the strain of all these attacks on teachers. But then I am reminded by former and current students alike, why I do what I do. You are a gem and I thank you!
Thank you, Diane, for putting yourself on the hot seat. Your immediate recall of the facts made your interviewer look so ill informed, despite CNN editing.
In response to your question, “Is CNN trying to become the new FOX?” My opinion is that CNN is just being CNN. This is not the first issue with which CNN seems to have a preconceived agenda.
Showing one poorly written 8th grade writing sample in an effort to disparage the teaching profession was disgusting, dirty, and pitiful at the same time. You more than held your own, Diane, and I am beyond grateful.
Any one from the West Coast know what part of Newsroom the interview appeared in? I have/am taping it and can’t seem to find it.
The Randi Kaye Yellow Journalism hour.
Did someone say she attended BU? They should drape their hallways in black and hang their heads in shame.
All high schools and colleges with journalism classes/majors should air this video as an example of how NOT to conduct an interview.
I think it got pre-empted by the Ryan speech since on the West it was occurring in the first half of the three hours of the morning Newsroom. I guess I have to hope they post it online.
I posted the transcript here if you want to read it:
http://dianeravitch.net/2012/08/18/what-readers-said-about-cnn-and-randi-kaye/#comments
Thank you, Diane.
CNN is not the only culprit. Check out the PBS series “Makers” depicting exemplary American women, with an episode featuring M. Rhee. And not a segment featuring Diane?!?
PBS and NPR have shaped my world view as long as I’ve been old enough to watch and listen. But now I am not part of the audience PBS, or CNN care about reaching. So, maybe “we” should say something to PBS too, in our unified teacher’s voices.
Diane reminds me of Joan, the maid of Orleans. Difference now is teachers are far more tenacious and formidable than were the humble, valiant and doomed French people of nearly a thousand years ago. Our kings may be owned by our banks, but we are reading and writing. The pen is mightier. I’ve built my life on it.
The teachers now speak thru DIane for justice as the angels did with Joan. Our champion is well-loved and defended, as was The Maid. But: We are literate. We publish. We share a unified voice informed by a common moral compass. We teach. Sometimes we have jobs, but all the time we are teachers.
Are people writing to CNN to tell them what they think of the one-sided yellow journalism? Where do we go to post a comment on this?
Go here. I have both emailed and called about the one sided, blatantly biased interview and it still not being posted on line:
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/
I wrote CNN this morning and chided them and Randi Kaye for their shoddy treatment of Dr. Ravitch. I don’t know if it will do any good, but if enough other people weigh in, perhaps they will pay attention. We can only hope.
I am going to try and make this short. I called and I received a call back that unfortunately went into voice mail. First name only, Brian left a message that the transcript would be posted. I found it and put the full transcript and link on the other CNN post from today. I called back and they kept transferring me to leave a voice mail. I called one more time and hit the 1 for news tips and Brian answered. I recognized his voice immediately. I thanked him for calling me back, but I told him ALL public school teachers want the video on line NOT the transcript. I pointed out that Rhee’s interview was posted, so why not Ravitch? He said it didn’t mean they wouldn’t eventually. I asked him to please make sure someone knows we want this video posted ASAP.
Well, they couldn’t make their interviewer look any more stupid.
Has the interview video been posted somewhere? I would like to see it, as I am unable to find it on CNN´s web site…should I be surprised? heh…anyway if someone has it, please send me the link to abelardo.garciajr@gmail.com
Both parties are wrong as to what scaled scores are (or “scale scores,” if you prefer). They are raw scores transformed to a scale. They are not a percentage correct, as Randi Kaye seems to believe. Those are called “raw scores.” And they are not trend scores, as Diane Ravitch states. A trendline can be created from scale scores or raw scores as long as two data points are present and criteria for comparability are met.
The students in the 90th percentile on NAEP have a scale score of 276 out of 500.
NAEP uses scale scores as a trend line.
Diane, you rock. I can say that with even more emphasis now that I read this post about what really happened during the interview. Thank you, thank you, for speaking up for education.
I know you don’t care for disparaging words from those who comment on your blog posts. So, I won’t. CNN has been losing ratings and Time Warner-AOL is considering discontinuing the feed. That is well known by those in the media business. I offer this site: http://www.whoownsthenews.com/ . If we are to save public schools from total annihilation by for-profit corporatization, we need to organize: a clearing house for all our disparate groups and voices; a coalition with civil rights, human rights, and other organizations that represent the voices of people who are otherwise not heard or listened to; unite public school unions’ approaches to the fight against corporate takeover of public education. I see little unification on a national basis.
I agree with one of the comments above, you were ambushed on CNN. While there are few on the planet who possess your esteemed reputation, knowledge, and experience, it is of great importance that the media voice for the saving of public schools take the persona of media-speak. Most viewers of the major networks, as you said, are being hammered by the MSM propaganda that our public schools and teachers are failing. You, and others of great mind and experience continue to provide the information and allow a persona of an Alan Grayson present it. How does Rhee, et al. succeed with their messaging? Repetition and Rhetoric. Only, in our case, the rhetoric will be factual.
Television viewers will join us, not through logical and rational explanation, but by selling the idea of what is being taken away from them. People fear loss more than any possibility of future gain. With your leadership in the voice of a policy law attorney shark media savvy heavy hitter able to control the narrative as the GOP do, able to override obvious ambushes from the corporate shill talking heads and commentators, then we begin to get our narrative out loud enough to have those TV viewing folks listen up rather than being confused by an explicit attempt to confuse the viewer.
Next stop: The Rachel Maddow Show. You would do well on this show as you will be given the chance to bring your expert testimony out in the open for the viewers in the most optimal way. CNN disgraced your unparalleled position in public education. Let our hired guns handle the commentators of such obscenity. You control the narrative through them. You appear on programming that is not designed with seemingly lurking deception. Then we will be able to SELL the benefits of public schools and the loss to it through corporate takeover. Features, I’m sure, to which most TV viewers would relate.
Keep giving them hell Diane , you are a true champion for teachers !
Diane,
Thank you once again for everything you do for public education and teachers.
These are my comments to CNN:
I watched Randi Kaye’s interview about education with Diane Ravitch this morning.
That was one of the most unprofessional interviews I have ever seen. I also watched Kaye’s interview last week with Michelle Rhee. The two interviews were completely different. Rhee was never challenged with facts on her failed plans to privatize public schools. Kaye even used a biased chart supplied by the corporate backed American Legislative Exchange Council or ALEC to support Rhee’s false claims! Ravitch was constantly attacked and successfully countered every myth and lie about public education with FACTS. The lowest point of the cross examination was when Kaye showed a poorly written letter by a student. This letter was supposed to prove how public education is a failure.
CNN is not the “most trusted name in news.” It has become a fact-free zone where anyone can espouse false information and is rarely challenged. On recent exception was Soledad O’Brien challenging Romney spokesman, John Sununu lying about Obama stealing $716 from Medicare. Again is this the exception not the rule on CNN.
Shame on CNN!
Diane,
I just sent this e-mail to Randi Kaye:
Dear Ms. Kaye,
Even though I have admired you and your reporting for some time, I was very disappointed by your “interview” with Diane Ravitch yesterday. Apparently, the point of the interview was not to elicit any of Dr. Ravitch’s views but rather to cross examine her. While you may have distrust and disdain for Dr. Ravitch, most educators find her to be the lone voice of reason in this politically charged education reform assault on public schools and public school teachers.
Whether or not you realize this, most teachers feel frustrated and frightened because the media and the politicians listen to those who have the financial backing like the Gates Foundation and the Walton Foundation and the Koch Brothers and ALEC, and Michelle Rhee has become one of their head cheerleaders. What a shame that the media will not listen to those who are in the trenches. Unfortunately, no one listens to teachers because how in the world could a simple minded teacher know much of anything?
Even though I retired from teaching a long time ago, I am saddened that the profession that I loved for so many years has turned into the whipping boy for the rich and powerful. I am frustrated that the media has never bothered to follow the money to see what is really behind this “reform” movement. I am saddened that the media has dropped the ball and not reported the real story of the heroic work being done by most teachers every day. Instead, anecdotal reports are made with no substantiation. What was the back story on the child whose paper you read and offered as evidence to indict teachers? Was he a special needs student? Was he an ELL student?
While I would assume that you were reading the script that your producers had put on the teleprompter, I wonder (since you are an Emmy winning reporter) if you might not want to revisit this topic in a more fair and balanced fashion? Why don’t you invite Michelle Rhee and Diane Ravitch to have an actual discussion about education? Now that would be a show worthy of your talent.
I could not find her email. Will you post it here?