I taped the interview a few minutes ago.
It airs tomorrow at 9-10 am EST.
It was a gotcha session.
This is the letter I sent to my contact at CNN.
This was one of the most biased interviews I have ever done, and I have done many.
Randi Kaye asked me about NAEP scale scores, which was technically a very dumb question, and I was stunned.
She thinks that a scale score of 250 on a 500 point scale is a failing grade, but a scale score is not a grade at all.
It’s a trend line.
She asserted that the scale scores are a failing grade for the nation.
That is like saying that someone who scores a 600 on the SAT is a C student, because it is only 75% of 800. But that’s wrong.
The scale is a technical measure. It is not a grade, period.
Then she asked me about an issue in Michigan, which fortunately, I had written about. But it was clear she was trying to blindside me.
The point of her question was to blame teachers, and I refused to be pushed into her trap.
Then she read two hostile comments about my CNN post and asked for my response.
Was that supposed to be a balanced or fair interview?
There was no effort to elicit my views, only a determination to prove me wrong and to assert that US education is terrible.
Shame on CNN.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
I am sorry that you were exposed to at negativism. You needed Matt Damon to tell the interviewer the situation as he did last year. Most of all, I am sorry for the nation.
I cannot tell you how angry I am at CNN and Randy Kaye to learn about this. Very unprofessional of her. Shame on CNN.
I’m sorry you had to endure that, but thank you for standing up for teachers and their students. In a time where it feels like we don’t have many supporters in our corner, it helps to know that you, full of wisdom and courage, are there. Your steady encouragement will never be forgotten!
What ever happened to responsible journalism? They don’t call out politicians on their blatant lies but try to discredit a well respected educator such as yourself. What the heck is going on over at CNN?
The Fourth Estate has abdicated its responsibility. When most of the media outlets in the US are owned by only five corporations, it’s no wonder that their scripts are shared and bias is rampant.
Diane, I am SO sorry that happened to you. I think it would be best for us all to express our concern with Randi Kaye’s attack on you, and biased approach. The media is driving the conversation and it is not fair. Even this morning I was watching the morning news and here comes NY Fox News VP Lew Leone promoting charter schools as the cure all…
http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19295009/lews-view-create-more-charter-schools
I am truly tired…and emotionally drained from all of this…but I will keep on. Please stay encouraged…you give us so much more drive and momentum to keep fighting…and we thank you for that.
I agree with you. It’s almost a full-time job keeping up with these attacks and campaigns of misinformation. But we have too much at stake to lay low and surrender.
I agree Mark…you are right..too much to lose…will not lay low…will not surrender!
Lew Leone is a mouthpiece for Murdoch the same way the editorials of the NYPost are. They are all disgusting!!
Corporate Owned Media (COM) does what it’s owners command it to do.
Too bad your interview couldn’t have been with Anderson Cooper. He may have his biases (don’t we all), but he’s always struck me as a professional with integrity who does his homework before conducting the interview and open to being proven wrong on a point.
Edit: “its”
Anyone have an email contact or Facebook page for this “journalist”? Who knows what they will cut out to benefit their agenda?
So much for unbiased reporting! My list of companies to boycott just keeps growing. Time to get rid of cable tv entirely.
Right, Linda, I was going to say, now I remember why I stopped watching CNN “news” shows years ago.
Okaikor, many free thinkers have been boycotting Fox “news” shows for years, too.
I stopped watching TV a few years back. So many inanities, what a waste of resources.
Just called CNN and expressed my disgust.
Do you mind posting the phone number?
The number I found was the “News Tip” line – but they’ll transfer you.
404.827.1500 option 1
Also, you can leave feedback about Randi Kaye herself here:
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/#cnn_FBKCNNTV
Just select the anchor or reporter you want to leave feedback about from the drop down menu
I suggest you see the interview first
Diane Ravitch
I’m so sorry you had to endure this. I was really looking forward to this interview. I’ll still watch it. This interview and interviewer is a perfect example of why parents and teachers must take the narrative back. It’s also a great example of everyone attempting to be an expert.
Based on what you wrote Randi seems incapable of understanding and interpreting test data and statistics. No harm since I guess she considers herself to be a journalist and not a talking head. Perhaps she should revisit: “Introduction to Journalism” and “Fundamentals of Journalism”. Heads up Randi. Remember what they taught you in J-School. Don’t become the story.
On the brighter note, and I’m sure you have a sense of humor- you didn’t lose any sleep by getting up early to go to a studio on Sunday morning. A small consolation.
It is unfortunate that a supposed “news leader” would resort to the level of blind siding any guest on any of its shows, but especially one who was brought on, in theory, to present an opposing viewpoint to one given earlier. Is this what has become of debate in the United States? There seems to be no place for people to get unfiltered news on TV any more, which makes the work of teachers free from political constraints all the more important. No longer is news just a Joe Friday “just the facts, ma’am” approach.
I am sorry, Diane, that those of us who encouraged you and were thrilled that you would have a chance to present the other side of the issue, put you in a position to become a “pinata” for CNN’s agenda “stick.” I guess that we (teachers) will have to continue on our grassroots level to convince people that standardized testing does not make us a better nation.
I just posted a link to your blog on my Facebook page. I’m sure people will want to protest CNN’s abuse — especially when they take YOU on, who do so much for us with such grace, wit, knowledge, and truth-telling.
I think we should flood CNN with complaints.
I urge everyone to post Diane’s blog post (this one) on your Facebook pages with a call for our people to respond appropriately to CNN.
Thoughts?
Was this interview and the previous one that sparked you concerns part of an editorial presentation or was it news reporting? Sounds like you encountered an editorial atmosphere, when you were expecting a news atmosphere. Were there any prior agreements or stipulations attached to the interview appointment?
CNN = Zero credibility. Witness their “reporting” of the SCOTUS decision on the Affordable Care Act. They are a disgrace.
On the CNN site: Please contact 404.827.1500 and select option 1…choose news tips…ask for an unbiased reporter who is able to conduct an interview and/or express your disgust.
If you do not choose option 1 or 2 and wait you will be connected with a person.
Please wait until you see the interview. You can’t react to something you have not seen.
Diane
Dr. Ravitch,
In contacting them now, there would be no way they would redo the interview, right? I’ll wait, but. . . it would be great IF we could be proactive and have them reinterview?
That was my thought. I will wait. Not sure it will matter anyway.
It matters!
I’ll watch, but I’m not looking forward to getting all worked up and angry again. Sorry, Diane. Thank you so much for what you do!
Diane I know you must have developed a tough hide after becoming a public figure by championing the cause of teachers and education. There are a lot of us out there rooting for you and I am certainly one. I retired from the Florida schools system in June after only completing 23 years in teaching because I refused to continue to be manipulated and abused by the educational system. I leave many dear friends still in the trenches and have promised to do something to help them. Today I started my own blog titled teacher1blog and would be ever so greatful if a veteran like you would give me some tips or suggestions. Might be a good topic for your next book. Thanks for all you do including walking through the minefields of interviewers out to get you!
Write what you know.
Respect your readers.
Don’t use jargon.
Be honest with yourself and your readers.
Don’t be afraid.
very concise. great advice. thanks.
You, Ms Ravitch, are a ROCK STAR. Everything about you screams AWESOME!
Do you have a link to your blog?
I am not surprised, sadly. Teachers and those who sympathize with them are not respected in this society. Roger Mudd was spot-on when he said several years ago:
“What else is needed is something that teachers themselves are reluctant to talk about openly and it’s our respect for them. It’s what is missing in America, and it’s what has been too long withheld from a profession so important to our national well being, as important as doctors or captains of industry or TV commentators. From sunup to sundown, the school teachers you have seen tonight work harder than you do – no matter what you do. No calling in our society is more demanding than teaching. No calling in our society is more selfless than teaching. No calling in our society is more central to the vitality of a democracy than teaching.”
Was this from a TV show? Can you post a link? This sounds like Roger. In his prime he was a pistol. He’s still around Diane and others.This would be a great interview.
Diane:
I worked in television and I suggest you immediately ask for the check print of the taping from CNN. First of all,this alerts them that you are aware that you have rights. Secondly, it at least protects you from being quoted out of context. You have a lot of very important information that is being hidden. Democracy depends on all of our citizens getting a good education.
Keep up the good fight.
Arden
(Sari’s husband)
Diane,
Please check out NAEP and SAT scores when disaggregated by race/ethnicity. There I think you will find remarkable progress over the years for each subgroup…black, hispanic, white, etc. When only average scores are reported, people are deceived through a phenomenon known as Simpson’s Paradox, which happens over time when greater and greater numbers of students who generally score lower on tests take them. Gerald Bracey documented this repeatedly and charted it in one of his books, up through 2002 I believe. It may have been published in “On the Death of Childhood and the Destruction of Public Education.”
I know you and Bracey butted heads once. However, before he died he had considerable praise for you. Perhaps all was a misunderstanding concerning suppression of the Sandia Report. Personally, I love both of you and know he would be in the same camp with you today in the effort to get the truth out there! Those of us who communicated with him miss him so very much. He was acidic but he only wanted the truth to be told. And he was justifiably angry at the suppression of truth.
Thank you so much for your tremendous efforts to get the untold story told.
CNN and this reporter should be exposed for this emabarrassing travesty of so-called journalism.
I know I got off topic as far as the metrics are concerned (scale scores) but my big picture point was that corporate media and the deformers invariably will use the metric that paints public schools in the worst possible light.
Not saying we don’t need to strengthen and improve our public schools. We do. However, the truly remarkable thing is how well public schools have managed to perform over time given the unprecendented levels of attack and demoralization they are under from every direction. What an irony.
Judging from the report, either Kaye was coached on what to say or she lacks the understanding to see that she was confusing a scale score with the concept of a grade. No offense to her, but in either case, she is responsible for what she said.
What nonsense. We will fight back–after we watch it for ourselves, of course.
Truth be told, I expected a “gotcha” from CNN. The company makes no secret about its “education consultant” being “scholar” Steve Perry. What else would anyone expect from CNN when they put this clown on TV with his college graduation gown in the background of the shot. As if…
Of course someone else prepared the questions. That’s expected. What’s surprising is how one-sided they were —-and how ignorant the scale score question was
Diane
The United States is an Empire in decline. Study the history of any empire. One of the symptoms of an empire in decline is the elites are incapable of evaluating and adjusting to the decline. Instead they look for scapegoats to blame rather than accept the new reality and their responsibility for it. Education and educators are the current scapegoat.
Folks, pls follow D’s advice to wait until we wee the interview before barraging CNN with complaints. D gets rough treatment b/c she’s now identified as an enemy of the corporate establishment, as Gates said, the obstacle to effective education(!!). Just means that D is right on target and making life hard for the billionaire boys club and the privatize crowd…keep on going, good work Prof. D!.
Thank you.
Diane
There is no way truth can be silenced. The harder they try, the stronger the fight. Thank you Diane for your courage to speak the truth. I stand with you, as do all of us who truly care for children. Will watch tomorrow and offer my feedback to CNN.
Maybe you can get time to do a rebuttal or maybe you can appear on Rachel Maddow. This is not good. Everybody seems convinced that American schools are so terrible and yet we create some of the best scientists, engineers, doctors and other professionals as well as the most productive workers in the world. Who gives a damn about test scores! American teachers produce educated children!
Diane.. we have your back. Let’s watch the interview then respond..
Thank you!
Diane Ravitch
You know it almost looks like teachers are the new Negros, the latest group to hate. The conservatives lost on women, are losing on immigration, lost on Blacks, lost on keeping handicapped kids out of society,lost on abortion and are losing on gays. So now we are the root of all evil. I guess it’s because public school teachers don’t pray in school and are not Christians (HA Ha! Just every day.). And that is the root of all this privatization crap, dead in the Religious Right who a few years ago said that “Christian” families should not send their children to public school but to home school or send them to “Christian academies”. I think that was the hate group, Focus on the Family or possibly American Family Association that said that. And what do we have now but Christian academies paid for by tax money and online schooling.
It’s upsetting to hear that you were there for something so one-sided. I had hope that your interview would be the “breakthough” to the public exposing the truth about “educational reform” I’ve been waiting for, but I guess that will not be the case. I will watch it for sure, and then I will definitely let CNN know what I think.
Another reader mentioned Rachel Maddow – is there a possibility you could be on her show? Or a different show/network? The public REALLY needs to know the truth, and you are our spokesperson! We love you and are so grateful for the work you do.
Sorry to hear you were set up like that. I hope you gave ’em hell! You’ve experienced first hand what teachers are going through. Our voices are being silenced and the ones who do speak up subject themselves to all sorts of punishments. Elementary teachers can be switched to a different grade level and/or a different school every year, they can be assigned the worst duty, embarrassed in front of colleagues at faculty meetings, etc. Granted a small personal price to pay for saving public ed. But that’s not what teachers signed on to do. I also think a lot of teachers don’t realize the depth of the treachery they are up against. Thank you for speaking out. Looking forward to watching your interview.
It seems that CNN and other corporate media outlets are more concerned with “creating a narrative” rather than reporting facts and challenging opinions based on fact. Over and over one sees “reporters” respond with hostility when their narrative is challenged by contrary facts or when their grasp of the facts and lack of preparation is so nakedly exposed by a knowledgeable guest. Thank you for standing up for teachers and students in the face of the encroaching hostile corporate take over of public education.
Disappointing. Sorry to hear this. Thank you, as always, for fighting the good fight.
Look at all of the negative attention NBC got with the Olympics through Twitter. That became a news story unto itself. I know this audience isn’t as large, but I believe we can have an impact if we tweet and retweet and so forth.
Thank you. I’m counting on you.
Diane
Thanks for the heads up on some of the interview. Even though you may have been asked some really strange questions, no doubt you professionally, succinctly and as politely as possible put her in her place. That we can count on. Thanks for that!
Diane, You’ll have to tell us if they edit the interview. That’s another trick used to distort.
If things proceeded as Diane outlines — and she is very careful in what she says on this blog — then an attempt to sucker punch her is hardly unexpected. But this sort of thing can backfire.
Let me relate a personal experience. I went to what was called an “all-city” school in Detroit in the mid-1960s, very highly regarded. While walking down the hallway during class change, I heard someone call me from behind. As I turned I was literally sucker punched full in the face [and very hard] by someone I didn’t know. I was taking judo at the time, so I blocked his next punch, threw him down without hurting him, and held him until school staff could separate us. After I threw him down I could have done him great damage [broken his arm, choked him unconscious or worse, elbowed him in what was then politely called his ‘private areas, and so on], but I just immobilized him until the situation could resolve itself peacefully.
As any reality-based person could expect, I was promptly informed by the assistant principal in charge of ‘discipline’ that I would be suspended for fighting. My mother — a teacher of course! — promptly marched down to school with me, went right to the AP, and forced this miscreant to admit that with literally dozens of witnesses to the whole incident, that I had been viciously attacked and had defended myself with great restraint. The AP was, quite obviously, not used to someone using the ‘weapons’ of courage and truth and honor against him, and without even a moment’s hesitation beat a complete retreat. Surrender without conditions. I was right, he was wrong, and let’s all just pretend the threat of suspension was a hasty, er, misunderstanding because, uh, some subordinate of his had somehow misinformed him — or some such malarkey.
I never got attacked in school again [word of my not being blamed for my own victimization apparently spread widely, so any would-be attacker knew he would not be shielded by a immoral administrator]. So courage and truth and honor will out, though not always in the short run. More often then not, one has to run a gauntlet of blows before claiming victory, but I think Diane can handle those who try to sucker punch her.
And she will claim victory.
In the end, those cowards who sucker punch others just dishonor themselves.
Just when I thought that public education might finally get a fair hearing on CNN, I was disappointed to hear that you were blind-sided. I will watch the interview tomorrow, and after I give some thought to how the questions have been framed and answered, I will write another e-mail to CNN expressing my views.
The most disappointing part of this is that the cable networks have decided to lionize faux prophets like Bill Gates and Michael Bloomberg and others from the Billionaires Boys’ Club while showing disrespect for true educational leaders like you, Diane.
What is even more creepy is the Teachers Rock show which is on CBS right now. The hits just keep on coming.
I’m taping it now. I’m not sure I’ll watch it Phyllis. Is it a celebration or a beat-down?
The purpose of the show was two-fold – to show how much influence teachers have in the lives of children, as demonstrated by a list of celebrities with very positive recollections – and also, to advertize the upcoming pro-charter movie “Won’t Back Down”. Excerpts of the movie showed a nightmare of public school victimization and rejection by a teacher(s?) unable to meet the needs of a ‘dyslexic’ student. The launch of an inclusive, positive and successful charter school, headed up by Viola Davis, provided the alternative. It’s based on a true story. Apart from demonstrating the successful, joyful, engaged students through rote shouted responses to Ms Davis’ unfinished questions – cf. videos of call and response type morning meetings on gung ho charter school websites – there was a great deal of justifiable passion and bureaucratic obtuseness. Albert Shanker’s dream of alternative schools which could implement new, experimental pedagogies deserves respect, and is demonstrably true in some cases. The polarization of two extremes is clearly exploitative, but if it’s a true story, and isn’t generalized from one particular instance – then it’s just a movie!
It is not a true story. It is not even based on a true story because it never happened.
The only saving grace of all that righteous indignation was that it actually happened! Diane, hearing that it’s purely a piece of propaganda, and that serious actors evidently bought into it (Gyllenhall and Davis) – that’s so depressing! Also, did Meryl Streep, Morgan Freeman, Josh Groban et al know they were being connected to that message? I hope they just wanted to lift up and celebrate their favorite teachers! However, parents do need to be involved in their schools, and I think that’s one of your main themes – they are being excluded from the debate, and they are also being woefully misinformed by a highly efficient marketing machine with unlimited funds. You held the line in this interview, no question!
Diane,
Sorry that CNN doesn’t seem to be interested in giving a fair picture of what’s going on in education. Thanks for standing up for teachers.
Here is a link to an interview from the UK. Even Michele has moments when her propaganda machine fails:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18592185
I heard this story on NPR just the other day about CNN losing money and seeking a new direction that may involve more opinion-based programming. I wonder if there’s a connection.
http://www.npr.org/2012/08/16/158908783/low-ratings-force-cnn-to-find-a-new-direction
There is some hope. Rachel Maddow is a possibility. Ed Shultz interviewed Diane recently and I believe he agreed to invite her back. There is the possibility of Elliot Spitzer on Current. (he may have some charter school baggage as a result of his term as Gov. of NY) There is also Cenk on Current TV’s The Young Turks. He’s done several stories ranging from the UVA fiasco, to US/Finland educational systems and he recently covered the Poway Unified School District financing snafu. How $100 M grows to $1B.
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/education/article_c83343e8-ddd5-11e1-bfca-001a4bcf887a.html
Write letters, send emails and Tweet em. It never hurts. There are also petition sites that won’t have you sign up for StudentsFirst. Just saying. Use the media before it uses you.
I will have to wait for CNN to link it to their website. But take a page from politicians. When asked a loaded question, turn it around to and make it an opportunity to express your views. But something tells me you did fine.
Diane, You have to be one of the kindest people ever. But I am sure you will be ready for any interview after this. We all can’t be Matt Damon putting that horrible reformer reporter at the SOS Save Our Schools in her place. He even took on the camera man 🙂
That interview always cheers me up 🙂
I’ve been burned by the local media many times. I will not trust them and only issue written quotes. These so called “journalists” do not come in with the idea of gathering good info and reporting. They come with their biased opinions and attempt to find a way to fulfill their pre-conceived beliefs.
I think everyone must wait to see the interview and then respond but all comments must be free of vulgarities, curses, etc.. otherwise the narrative will be that we are left leaning loons who can’t deals with tough but fair questioning. Which we all know from Diane’s words that they weren’t. I think the best defensive to shrug our shoulder and state over & over how sad & unprofessional CNN & other journalists are. if we get emotional although warranted, it gives these ahem uninformed people reason not to look at their behavior. We don’t them to somehow play victims.
Hang in there Diane, we all know the truth and so does whoever you believe to be your higher power.
Much Love & support your way
Sorry, Diane. When you are disrespected we all are. I am re-reading your Death and Life of the Great American School System again and can only wish you had chance to respond to some legitimate questions. But again this testing ‘gotcha’ gets us all. People do not understand “testing” and almost all fall back on their visceral fears from their own school experiences. Tests, they mistakenly think, prove your worth, not your transitory moment in our learning continuum.
This is why I stick to Jon Stewart or the PBS Newshour. It’s so indicative of the absence of intelligence in any mainstream education journalism that an interviewer can’t understand NAEP scores and twists their meaning to invent fiction. what an unpleasant experience for you Diane, I’m sorry.
You are a voice crying in the wildness. We are living in an age when people who have little or no experience in the field of education pretend to know everything AND THEY DO NOT LIKE BEING REMINDED OF THE FACT that they know so little. Please continue your excellent work! Those of us who do have experience in the field appreciate what you do. Thank you.
CNN is Fox News lite.
Does anyone now doubt that our media is controlled? This also tells us that the reform movement will “win.” The only question now is how long the new system will last. We haven’t had a fair and balanced media for 30 years now. The elites will win this fight. They pull all the strings. This just reaffirms how bleak this situation is.
Now that I have watched the interview, it seems clear that this “rheeporter” was a merely a mouthpiece for the privatizers. This was not an interview, but a cross-examination. So much for objective journalism. Somebody ought to be bold and host a Rhee/Ravitch debate, so that both sides can present their views with minimal interference.
Diane,
I thought you smacked down everyone one of her assertions. If she said there were both positive and negative comments, why did she only read one negative. This was not an interview. Alan is correct.
I no longer have any faith in CNN to report the truth.
It was pretty apparent that the “interviewer” was picking and choosing her “facts.” Thank you, Diane, for your effort.
I forgot to add how I noticed the absence of the “scaled score vs. grade” segment that had been mentioned here. I guess they didn’t like how they came out on that one.
Unfortunately, it’s not just CNN. As a public educator in Texas, it seems to be the entire media lashing out against public education. This was obviously a biased interview, but I was cheering you on after each of your answers! Thank you for having such solid data to respond to each of her questions! Our Texas legislation is gearing up to push vouchers again even though they have consistently failed. They are also ready to privatize our retirement fund which is one of the most solid in the country right now – so much for ever being able to afford to retire. I just feel beat up!
I thought Diane held her own-VERY WELL. Thank you Diane for hitting every question with a direct answer and great rebuttal in such a short time. I did have to wonder who wrote the questions-some were so lame-I had to wonder if a StudentsFirst employee wrote the questions for CNN or Michelle Rhee herself.
Is the interview video online anywhere?
It will be and I will post the link
This interview was indeed shocking. I don’t know iwhether to be discouraged by CNN’s Foxification or encouraged by the fact that your brilliant argument aired.
Can we get a video link to the interview, Diane? I can’t seem to find it on CNN. Great job!
Just curious. What Michelle Rhee’s interview broadcast at 10am EST?