Today is Juneteenth, a day that marks the end of slavery. Juneteenth is the day in 1865 when black people in Texas finally got the news that slavery had been abolished. There is currently a movement to make Juneteenth a national holiday. Many large corporations already recognize its importance.
Now, as the nation is rocked by demonstrations and protests against racism, is a good time to stop honoring Confederate heroes.
Education Week conducted a survey and identified some 174 schools, all in the south, that honor southern heroes, mainly Robert E. Lee. Let’s face it. The leaders of the insurrection were traitors to the United States. Their “sacred cause” was white supremacy. The war they fought to secede cost more than 600,000 lives.
Alan Singer says it’s past time to remove all the statues and memorials honoring Robert E. Lee, who violated his oath to serve his country and waged war against it.
Growing up in Houston, I attended Albert Sidney Johnston Junior High School, named for a Confederate General, the first of his rank to die in the Civil War. I didn’t know anything about him as a student, although everyone memorized the school marching song that honored his name (he died in the Battle of Shiloh in 1862).The school’s name was changed only four years ago, along with those of other schools in Houston named for heroes of the Confederacy.
Recently, the leaders of the military proposed renaming military bases that bear the names of Confederate generals. Trump flatly rejected the proposal, claiming that it would dishonor the military. Strange words from a man who ridiculed Senator John McCain because he was captured in Vietnam. Why praise generals who lost a disastrous rebellion while demeaning a war hero who refused the opportunity to be freed until the other American captives imprisoned with him were released?
Democrats are demanding the renaming of the military bases named for Confederate generals. House Democrats have vowed to attach their demand to the defense funding bill. Senator Elizabeth Warren is attaching an amendment to the Defense Authorization act requiring the renaming of the bases.
Justice Laurence Silberman, a Reagan appointee to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, was outraged by Warren’s amendment. He sent out a blast email to the other judges and their clerks calling her amendment “madness.” A day later, a black clerk responded to Justice Silberman, risking his job, defending Warren’s proposal.
The Intercept reported:
“Hi Judge Silberman,” began the career-risking reply-all email, “I am one of only five black law clerks in this entire circuit. However, the views I express below are solely my own,” they went on. “Since no one in the court’s leadership has responded to your message, I thought I would give it a try.”
[M]y maternal ancestors were enslaved in Mississippi. While the laws of this nation viewed my ancestors as property, I view them as hostages. In a hostage situation, when someone does something that leads to the freeing of the hostages, I am not sure if the hostages would be concerned as to whether the person that saved them, actually intended to save them. In this instance, as people considered to be property, my ancestors would not have been involved in the philosophical and political debates about Lincoln’s true intentions, or his view on racial equality. For them, and myself, race is not an abstract topic to be debated, so in my view anything that was built to represent white racial superiority, or named after someone who fought to maintain white supremacy (or the Southern economy of slavery), see Photo of Liberty Monument attached, should be removed from high trafficked areas of prominence and placed in museums where they can be part of lessons that put them in context.
In your message, you talked about your ancestors, one that fought for the confederacy and one that fought for the Union. This seems to be a true example of a house divided. However, it is very clear what the Confederacy stood for. In 1861, at the Virginia secession convention, Henry L. Benning (for whom Fort Benning is named) in explaining the reasoning for Georgia’s decision to secede from the United States stated, “[it] was a conviction … that a separation from the North was the only thing that could prevent the abolition of her slavery…[I]t is probable that the white race, being superior in every respect, may push the other back.” Unfortunately, in this scenario, no matter how bravely your uncle fought for the Confederacy, the foundation of his fight was a decision that he agreed more with the ideals of the Confederacy, than he did with those of the Union. And in the end, he chose the losing side of history.
Finally, I will note that the current movement to rename Government owned facilities is in line with your previous opinions on the importance of names and what they represent. In 2005, you publicly advocated for the removal of J. Edgar Hoover’s name from the FBI Building due to the problematic material you came across in your review of his FBI files after his death. You equated it to the Defense Department being named for Aaron Burr. In view of your opinion of J. Edgar Hoover’s history and your advocacy for renaming the FBI building because of the prominence it provides Hoover’s legacy, it is very strange that you would be against renaming our military facilities, since the legacy of the Confederacy represents the same thing. This moment of confronting our nation’s racial history is too big to be disregarded based on familial ties.
The correspondence was provided to The Intercept by a member of the Court staff on the condition the identity of the clerk (who was not the source) and judges who replied be kept confidential.
After the clerk’s response came out, others spoke up, including two black judges.
Slam dunk.
This flurry of activism is a response to the outrage kindled by the murder of George Floyd. It is a response to a newly awakened public opinion. It is a testament to the work of the Black Lives Matter movement.
Rename the schools. Rename the bases. Honor heroes of freedom and democracy. Put the statues of Confederate military leaders in a museum where their words and deeds and legacy can be studied as part of American history. To be discussed but not to be honored as heroes.
Juneteenth was never even whispered in any of my schools, nor did I learn anything about the holiday through my family. I’m a black man raised in the North where the entire issue of slavery was whitewashed; slaves were defined as “happy workers”. It wasn’t until I was a grown man, transferred through my work to Dallas, Texas in 1978, when I finally learned the truth about Juneteenth. I remember feeling embarrassed and deceived after all those years of ‘mis-education’ in institutions of corporate propaganda. Now I realize my ‘education’ was largely a sham designed to uplift and maintain the lies about U.S. ‘exceptionalism’ and white supremacy. ‘Truth never damages a cause that is just’, Gandhi
Beautifully said!
Thanks foe the comment, Bob!
American “exceptionalism” also belongs only in history books. The concept is an affront to humanity.
This post has pulled all my strings. Sorry.
Thanks for your comment, Greg. ‘Exceptionalism’ hasn’t resonated with me. ever!
Growing up in Texas, I heard about Juneteenth but even there it didn’t get the full respect and treatment it deserves. This piece makes a great connection between our moral choice between honoring it or honoring Confederate heroes.
Pawan,
I too learned about Juneteenth as a young person in Houston. It was celebrated by blacks, ignored by whites. I never understood why it took more than two years for news of the Emancipation Proclamation to reach Texas. No national media. Had to rely on Union troops to bring the news, and Texas was not a major field of battle.
Coming from the northeast, I had never heard or read about Juneteenth until I spent some time in Texas. When I was working on repairing a building I bought, I was invited to a Juneteenth barbeque by some neighbors who explained the significance of the day to me. It was the first time I had ever heard about the holiday.
It’s a good time to read Ralph Ellison’s Juneteenth.
To be discussed but not to be honored as heroes.
Yes, and refresh civics instruction.
There are many things that confound my German friends about the U.S. This one, without question, tops the list. There are many reminders in Germany of Nazi history including museum exhibitions. For templates of proper memorials/monuments, may I suggest three examples? The first is Stolpersteine (pronounced shtol-per-shtine-eh), which are brass cobblestones placed throughout the nation–and now throughout Europe–that indicate where victims of the Third Reich terror lived. On each Stolperstein is the name of the person, their date of birth, the date (if known) of their death, and where or why that death occurred. It is not uncommon to see groupings of stones, representing each member of the family. These tell a story, demonstrating how some families were torn apart and died in different places at different times. The laying of these stones is always marked by public observance and volunteers polish them annually.
I would like to see something similar here in the U.S. We should have Stolpersteine in front of places where slaves lived, especially in urban area. For example, slaves existed in the early days of New York. It would be proper to have historians research where they lived and have Stolpersteine placed there as everyday reminders. These would be much better than the occasional historical marker.
Another appropriate model for memorial is in the Opernplatz (now renamed the Bebelplatz after the founder of the German Social Democratic Party) in Berlin, adjacent from the opera and across the street from the Humbolt University (named for the founder, Alexander’s brother) on the famous street Unter den Linden. This was the location of the infamous May 10, 1933 book burning ceremony led by Joseph Goebbels. In the middle of the square is a plexiglass window on the ground, underneath which is a room with empty bookshelves. It’s not easy to find, but for those who walk by, they are compelled to stop, look and learn.
There are many other examples to emulate, including historical site at Plötzensee prison (still a working prison) in Berlin, where the chosen enemies of the Third Reich were tortuously hanged by piano wire or guillotined. The rooms are left as they were and one of them has a digital library containing a biographical sketch of every person executed there who could be documented.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolperstein
http://www.stolpersteine.eu/en/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bebelplatz
https://www.tracesofwar.com/sights/1363/Memorial-Book-Burning-Opernplatz.htm
https://www.gedenkstaette-ploetzensee.de/index_e.html
The best novel I have read in the past 20 years, perhaps the best I’ve ever read, is Dasa Drndic’s Belladonna. It is about many things, but mostly about a Croatian man who is coming to terms with his life as he nears its end. She quotes Gunter Demnig, the artist who conceived Stolpersteine, “People are forgotten only when we forget their names.” Croatia also had (and has) a strong fascist streak. In the novel, she cites two atrocities and lists the names of all the known victims, one is at a playground in The Hague which lists the Jewish children from the area who were deported to die in concentration camps. The list is 19 pages long, with two columns per page. Every name and age is listed. It’s worth reading.
This post is so, so valuable, Greg!!! I would really like to see it appear as a cover story in a national magazine. Diane, any thoughts about that?
Thanks, Bob. Sharing it with my friends here is enough for me. I’m just happy you allow me to vent every now and then.
No, Greg. I emphatically disagree with you about this. The post about what we could do, following Germany’s model, is of national importance right now.
White supremacist morons like Donald “Dog-whistle” Trump claim that such calls are an attempt to “erase history.” But as is so often the case with what Trump says, the exact opposite is true. Removal of these obscene monuments is RECOGNITION OF and revulsion in response to the history.
Only a racist would think otherwise. If it quacks like a duck, . . .
I agree with you that GregB’s post is incredibly valuable. I, too, think we should do something similar here in this country. A logical first step in a true national healing effort is to educate ourselves about real history…
That this needs to be said still troubles me….
The mayor of Albany, New York has decided to remove a statue of Philip Schuyler from the front of City Hall in Albany because he was a slave owner. Schuyler was born in Albany and served in the French & Indian War and the Revolutionary War (Continental Congress & Continental Army). He was a NYS Senator among other things. His daughter Elizabeth married Alexander Hamilton.
What a GREAT argument, Ms. Allegretti, for removing this statue to a museum where all this can be explained. And while the curators are at it, they can explain what Schuyler was the largest slave owner in Albany in his day, that he OWNED approximately 30 people (8 to 13 at his Albany estate and the rest at his Saratoga estate), that many of his black slaves died as children, that the exhumed bodies of his adult black slaves show that they endured lives of hard (and, of course, uncompensated) labor. And perhaps the statue can be displayed next to a facsimile of the ad Schuyler took out offering a reward for the return of his “property,” the escaped slave named Harre.
Hello Bob,
I didn’t make ANY argument. I just gave factual information. But I’m also wondering if Mount Vernon and Monticello will be destroyed. Should we shred the Declaration of Independence? It was written by a slave owner. I’m not making any argument for anything. Just asking a question.
I used to live at the base of Monticello, and visitors would always want me to take them there. I obliged. And I would walk them right past the main entrance and to the slave quarters out back.
I wanted them to see, first, what the rest of it was built upon.
Mamie, no one here, at least to my knowledge, is making the argument that anything should be destroyed. It should be curated and put in its proper place and with context. History. I own some publications from the Third Reich, stamps from the era, and also from East Germany (an official portrait of Erich Honecker that was stolen by one of my family members and sent to me after the wall fell, I used to hang it upside down in my class and office). I keep them as remembrances and hopefully as lessons for future generations. My hometown had a museum exhibit a few years ago (free admission) called Tradition & Propaganda: Taking Stock. It highlighted propagandistic art and advertising during the era. I have the book that went with the exhibition. While I disagree with the destruction of the statues, I understand it completely. Remember when virtually everyone cheered when the statue of Saddam was toppled? The films and accounts of these destructions must also become a part of the historical record. But to speculate about the destruction of the things you cite is not appropriate, in my view.
https://www.kulturspeicher.de/kulturspeicher2016/ausstellungen/wechselausstellungen/rueckblick/413043.Tradition-und-Propaganda.-Eine-Bestandsaufnahme.html
Hello Greg B,
So, Mount Vernon, Monticello and the Declaration of Independence can stay where they are? I found this interview with Jon Meecham interesting:
https://www.msnbc.com/ali-velshi/watch/jon-meacham-our-monuments-should-honor-the-pursuit-of-a-more-perfect-union-84998213547
Ms. Allegretti, your argument sounds like this:
TOM: You know, that chair is blocking the door to the kitchen. Maybe we should move it to the family room.
ALICE: Right. Let’s just rip down the wall while we’re at it?
To which the only answer can be:
TOM [sighs]
Hello Bob,
I say again that I have NOT MADE ANY ARGUMENT. Where is the sentence in which I have made an ARGUMENT?
After reviewing my posts, I don’t believe I have given a specific ARGUMENT on this issue. I also haven’t given my OPINION on this issue. I merely asked QUESTIONS. If you want to read into my statements an argument or an opinion, that’s up to you. But I’ve given none.
Mamie, I’m getting behind in my work and promise to watch the interview you posted this evening (although Meacham is not my favorite, he equivocates too much in order to not offend his potential book sales). As I stated before, yes they can stay where they are. To pick up on my argument (and you implicitly make arguments when you post statements, despite your protestations), in Germany, Poland and the Czech Republic the concentration camp sites have been preserved. I have visited many of them, some more than once. They all have museums of varying quality attached to them or incorporated into the grounds (the best of which, as I have written here before, is Bergen-Belsen). They must stay. When I taught government, I pointed out the hypocrites in the words and arguments of the founders and framers and still managed–I hope–to convey the importance of their deliberations to posterity. But they weren’t perfect by any means. And that’s a big part of the problem. No one in history was perfect, but they had, as Lowell George of Little Feat once wrote in a song, “perfect imperfections.” That’s why they need to stay and be taught in context. Another reason good teachers are vital to our nation.
https://bergen-belsen.stiftung-ng.de/en/
Hello GregB,
Please tell me what you think my ARGUMENT is.
When you write, “So, Mount Vernon, Monticello and the Declaration of Independence can stay where they are?” your intent is to provoke a response. By doing so, your intent is to illicit reasoning or discussion. That is, by definition, an argument, even if you do not take a stance on the issue you posit. OK, now I really to have to get to work.
I guess my QUESTION (not an ARGUMENT or an OPINION) is this:
They mayor of Albany, New York is removing a statue of Philip Schuyler. He was a Revolutionary War General, NOT a Confederate General. The mayor stated she is removing this statue from the front of City Hall because Schuyler owned slaves. So, my QUESTION (not an ARGUMENT or an OPINION) is: Should we remove all statues of slave owners whether they are Confederate soldiers or not? I am not making any ARGUMENT for this or giving my OPINION.
OK. I’ll bite, though like Greg, I’m growing tired of this. As I understand it, you are saying that your first post did not contain an implicit argument that because he was an important historical figure in the founding of this country, his statue should not be removed even though he was a major slave owner and black people and others of conscience have to swallow this honoring of a major slave owner. And you seem also to be saying that equating removal of statues with tearing up the Declaration of Independence is not an implicit argument against removal of statues–one that suggests that these actions are similar, that they share characteristics like being extreme or un-American. Good to know.
elicit…WordPress autocorrect!!
Greg B,
I guess my next QUESTIONS would be the following:
If the mayor of Albany is removing the Schuyler statue on the basis that he was a slave owner (and NOT a Confederate General) as she says, how far should we go to remove slave holders from public display? Should we remove ALL slave holders including Founding Fathers who owned slaves? If we remove them, where will they go and in what context as you mention? This is why I ask about Monticello and Mount Vernon, etc. If we are going to remove ALL slave owners or just some, how do we decide that? How do we reconcile the fact that many of our founders were slave holders but also did things that we consider “good” to establish this country? I am not making an ARGUMENT here. I’m not giving my OPINION. I am asking QUESTIONS.
Makes sense, Ms. Allegretti. I think that if you read Greg’s comments above about what Germany has done in response to its own horrific inheritance, you will see a superb, reasonable answer to those questions. I think that the Confederate statues should be removed to museums, curated, and placed in historical context. The folks at both Monticello and Mt. Vernon are working on doing just that. There’s a national reckoning going on. We MUST throw over the myths and replace them with responsible history, warts and all. And even more than that, we need people to understand that the horrors in our history led inevitably, ineluctably, to the current systemic racism and economic inequities, which require action to be righted.
Hello Bob,
I’m sorry you are getting tired of this discussion. But it seems to me that the removal of the Schuyler statue in Albany, NY forms the crux of some important questions as I have outlined. If those people who accept the removal of the Schuyler statue on the grounds that he held slaves want to be consistent, should they not also accept the removal of statues of other Founding Fathers who were slave owners too? I’m just asking a question.
Ah. I understand, Ms. Allegretti. So we can agree that in all these instances, our cultural representations should be qualified by nonmythologizing truths, even if these are painful ones? Then we are in complete agreement. The search for methods for doing that is the important thing.
Mamie, you raise an important question. I heard about the Schuyler statue this morning in NPR, along with a reference to whether statues of Washington and Jefferson should come down. They owned slaves. I think our society must have a way to draw the line somewhere. Do we demolish the Washington Monument? The Jefferson Memorial? If human perfection is our goal, we should have no statues or monuments.
The NYC Council Speaker, Corey Johnson, today wrote a letter (co-signed by several other council members) to the Mayor demanding that the statue of Thomas Jefferson be removed from the City Hall Chambers.
I think that’s ridiculous. Jefferson was the author of the Declaration of Independence. Freedom fighters around the world quote his words. If he were alive today, he would be an active leader of Black Lives Matter.
This is where we are. Corey Johnson is not some unhinged or fringe radical. He is the Speaker of the City Council, probably the leading mayoral candidate for 2021, a well-credentialed progressive.
A few years ago, when conservatives were saying that pulling down confederate statues was a slippery slope that would lead to the founding fathers, I disregarded it as hyperbole. The slope was more slippery than I thought.
The Confederate statues were built in the late 19th century as a tribute to white supremacy and the “lost cause.” That was the Jim Crow era. Very few blacks were allowed to vote. The south has changed. The nation has changed. There is no good argument to honor Confederate generals.
This is broader than Confederate generals. It’s now a case by case analysis, often by mob, of the merits of each statue. That’s how we’ve gotten so quickly to tearing down Washington, and our city officials demanding that Jefferson’s statue be removed. This can’t be controlled by common sense line-drawing.
U.S. Grant statue was torn down in San Francisco.
When it comes right down to it, hasn’t much of our Western Culture and HUMAN culture for that matter, been founded on all kinds of things (slavery, war, greed, hierarchy, etc) that we now find unethical, immoral, unbecoming – whatever words you want to use? How do we reconcile all these things in our individual lives and in our communities and the entire world? I have some ideas of my own, but I’ll just leave you with the questions. 🙂
This is why we have history. To discover and tell the truth about this stuff.
Having done s close reading, I see NO evidence that Mamie was making any argument, She presented facts and they were relevant to the theme of Diane’s post. She did not state any opinions of her own, nor did she imply them.
That’s not to say that she has no opinions. And my gut tells me – and I could be completely wrong – that she may not be in favor of such artwork staying up publicly, save maybe for museums.
But per the tenets of literacy and reading and writing skills, she simply reported out. If you all want her opinion, why not just ask for it?
Hello Diane,
I think Jon Meacham gives some reasonable comments in the video that I posted.
Some protesters have torn down statues of George Washington.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/19/us/portland-george-washington-statue-toppled-trnd/index.html
Most of the Confederate statues were built in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century. They were built as a backlash to reconstruction to further “our white supremacist future.” With the advent of the Trump administration, white supremacists are boldly becoming more militant and dangerous. At the same time police have been hyper policing black people, and young black people have lost their lives at the hands of police officers. Taking confederate statues off public property is a reasonable response to the rise of white supremacy. The statues can go to museums or cementeries where confederate soldiers are buried. It would be a meaningful step to help heal the increasing divide of the past three and a half years.
This is THE lesson that should be taught about the historical revisionism of the so-called (Abraham Lincoln always used these words in describing the rebel entity and so should we) confederacy.
The statues and the rest of the white supremacist symbols were meant to reinforce the myth of the ‘Lost Cause’, the revisionist attempt to justify the Civil War and diminish/erase the notion of freedom for the slaves.
“Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.” –Abraham Lincoln
I can only imagine what President Lincoln would say about people actually arguing about whether to preserve monuments to traitors who rebelled against this country, plunged it into war, and brought about the deaths of millions of citizens in order to preserve a perceived right to own other people.
“Great president. Most people don’t even know he was a Republican,” Trump said while addressing attendees at the National Republican Congressional Committee Dinner. “Does anyone know? Lot of people don’t know that.”
Uh, Donald, educated people do know this. It’s only you and your deplorable white supremacist cult followers to whom basic facts from American history are freaking revelations.
Actually, any American doesn’t have to be too educated to know this. One of the simpler lessons of U.S. history. Just emphasize the depth of stupidity of the Idiot.
The “millions” in my comment is inflated, but please bear in mind that in addition to the direct casualties from the war, which a recent estimate puts at 750,000, there were the many civilians who died of privation as a result of the war–another 50,000 or so. So, roughly 800,000.
There is a nationwide awakening occurring in which MILLIONS of citizens are FINALLY starting to come to grips with the long and disgusting and persistent systematic racism in this country, including the Original Sins of genocide, slavery, Jim Crow, and the economic and political exclusion of people of color. Unfortunately, about 30 percent of Americans get their “news” exclusively from FOX and other such extremist right-wing propaganda organs. And what has been Fox News’s response to the nationwide call for change, to the most important mass uprising in this country’s history? It has been to run daily articles and broadcasts attributing the unrest across the nation to Antifa. Of course, the truth is that “Antifa” isn’t even an organization. It exists mostly in the fevered imaginations of right-wing idiots. It’s a HANDFUL of mostly white boys, mostly in their teens and early twenties, who like to dress up in all black costumes and pretend that they are Neo from the Matrix. But Fox knows how to create an enemy. It casts poor refugees fleeing starvation and violence in Central America as “caravans” of “rapists and murders” organized by George Soros. It casts the millions in our streets, now, calling for real action, for a change, to combat systemic racism as anti-American “Antifa” looters and thugs. And every day, every freaking day, Fox repeats this message, over and over, to its deplorable readers and listeners. It’s sickening.
What can be done to stop this disinformation? To allow a little reality to soak through on the other side?
cx: systemic racism, ofc
Hear Bill Moyers at Carneigie Hall speak about Juneteenth…
https://billmoyers.com/story/bill-moyers-on-juneteenth/
Thanks, Laura. Moyers is a Texan who is familiar with Juneteenth. It marks the end of slavery when the Union Army freed slaves in Galveston, TX.
And if I may offer an editing suggestion. The noun in the headline of this post is incorrect. The term is not Heroes. It is Traitors.
Important correction.
Same thought occurred to me, Greg
6-16-2020 (NCR on-line), Fr. Peter Daly from the east corridor of the nation wrote in reference to the use of a Catholic shrine for a Trump photo op- The Supreme Council of the Knights of Columbus (the largest lay Catholic organization in the world) politicized the order and took the side of racial bigotry and the violation of the constitutional and human rights of American citizens-.
The Knights, under the leadership of a former legislative aide to Jesse Helms, published its defense for Trump’s unopposed if not welcomed presence at the Shrine, an event that occurred the day after peaceful protestors were routed by force for a Trump photo op at a commandeered Episcopalian church.
Fr. Daly’s opinion included the following point, the existence of the shrine is itself a scandal. It was built by the archdiocese of Detroit at a time when the archdiocese was closing many schools and parishes for lack of funds. The shrine cost $75,000,000.
The state of Michigan is critical to the election of Trump.
Nothing prevents taxpayer money, given to religious schools and other organization, from being used against civil rights and democracy.
Of significance, when Kamala Harris spoke at Senate hearings against Knights of Columbus’ politicking, the K of C’s defender was Tulsi Gabbard. The single conflict within the U.S. that Putin doesn’t exploit is the religious one because it is that sector that elects Trump.
One last thing, promise, the law clerk’s citation of the name of the FBI building is spot on. I’ve written to one of my senators about this. Got a meaningless form letter back. No one seems to care that this person spied on, ruined the lives of so many people and violated virtually every part of the Constitution that applied to his office.
Please, Greg, no. MORE!!! Your posts are so inspiring and informative. KEEP THEM COMING!!!!
good. now how ’bout one of your on target brief essays on removing the kkk graffiti from stone mountain. see david pondered in
saportareport.com and my peggydobbins.net/labyrinthofrue. xx
I have to say I’ve done a complete about-face on this issue since I started reading about calls for pulling down Confederate statues etc a few years ago. I didn’t care about minor military figures, but Robert E Lee? My instinct was we were trying to deny history. Not sure why I didn’t immediately get that glorifying Confederate military figures is the height of denial. It’s like crossing the Mason-Dixon line you go through the looking glass into a fairytale alternate history.
About 20 years ago, I spent a tourist weekend in Charleston, SC. I visited a beautiful antebellum
Home. The southern lady who was the tour guide kept referring to “The War of Northern Aggression,” instead of the Civil
War.
I see on occasion opinion posts in local newspapers here in North Florida using the same reference by calling The Civil War, the war of northern aggression. Some people seem to be stuck a hundred and fifty years in the past.
Exactly, Diane and retired teacher. I was imagining something like that might be true, & you give me examples. I was thinking, surrounded by those warped echoes, it’s like they’re trapped in amber down there. Of course that’s a gross generalization & probably most of them aren’t (but why encourage it?)
Last summer, for some curriculum I was writing, I researched the statues in the Capital building. Each state has 2, so there are 100 statues. There are 9 women, 6 or 7 Native Americans, I think just 1 Latinx person, and NO blacks. But there are like 14 Confederates. How does that even make sense?? No MLK or Malcolm X or WEB DuBois, but Robert E Lee and Jefferson Davis are there.
That’s shocking, Threatened. Thank you.
I think Nancy Pelosi ordered the removal of statues of Confederate generals from the Capitol.
“Many large corporations already recognize its importance.”
Yeah, as of this year, those corporations that don’t want to get boycotted, looted or burned to the ground. They mean it about as much as those businesses that hastily slapped “Black Lives Matter” signs in the windows of their downtown stores a couple weeks ago. Chase Bank is closing today at 1:00 in honor of Juneteenth, which is really rich. If ever there was a business that profited from black oppression.
Large corporations have black officers, board members, and employees. They used their clout a few years ago to force North Carolina to abandon a proposed law to require transgender people to use the bathroom assigned to them at birth. It was called Hate Bill 2. The corporations threatened to leave NC if it passes. Money talks. If corporations are compelled by their staff, board and customers to do the right thing, I am for it.
At best, symbolic gestures. Let Chase Bank redistribute its wealth by paying taxes and a living wage to all its employees .
Horse manure, what these companies do. Nothing but Tom Foolery . . .
Said to Dienne, not Diane . . .
ME: So, Trump’s actually going to go through with it tomorrow. 20,000 people in a closed room in the middle of a pandemic.
MY SON: I know it sounds, cruel, Dad, but natural selection. It’s nature’s way.
Oh, stop it, Bob! What is the WORST thing that could happen . . . . ?
COVID happens mainly to blue states and democrats . . . . or maybe it’s just one big hoax?
Yes, maybe thinning out the herd will strengthen it? I with it were that simple. But there’s a theory and thesis in the making.
What a time of transition and evolution, of turmoil and change, of unleashed energy and tinderboxes, of exposure and vulnerability, of rage and sadness, and of strength, courage, solidarity, unity, and hope.
Hello Robert,
I’ve been reading and rereading Carl Jung lately. Your last paragraph reminded me about a lot of what he says. 🙂
This may be more reductivist than is called for, but Mamie’s arguments below, and they are without doubt arguments, sound suspiciously like the “all lives matter” deflection, the real need to far better and more accurately describe history notwithstanding. I for one am not fooled by arguments being disguised as questions, questions that take a position thinly camouflaged as a hypothetical. Removal of monuments to heros (men) who are not refutes the lie that they were and refutes the lies that they stood for. The other monuments/landmarks mentioned were not to individual men. The claim against the Declaration of Independence is guilt by association and ignores the manner by which it’s final form was arrived at.
I agree with your points Jon. You have summed up this “argument about what an argument is” semantic ridiculousness quite well. On this blog, one cannot throw out provocative, loaded “questions” that beg for responses and simply declare “I’m not making an argument.” After all, the subhead of this blog is “A site to discuss better education for all.” To be intellectually consistent, the question should be followed with something like, “I’m just asking a rhetorical question and do not expect a response.” It does seem suspiciously like the “some people say” fallacy we’ve been bombard with for the past four years. As for getting rid of larger monuments such as the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial, of course not. But there should be information posted about how historical and cultural definitions have evolved over time. I once attended a meeting in Rome that was a showcase building built to elevate fascist symbolism by Mussolini. It is now used as a large meeting center. And when you enter, there is a multi-lingual plaque that explains its history. Context, folks, context and education. Isn’t that why we’re here in the first place?
I find the argument that I made an argument fascinating. I find it equally fascinating that a question can be considered an argument. I suppose it could if worded properly. It makes me realize how much I read into things that are written or said when they may not mean that at all. I find it interesting that some on this blog have tried to guess at my opinions on this issue as well. Very interesting, indeed.
Mamie, you did nothing wrong! I like your comments and sorry you have been misinterpreted.
Thank you, Robert. That’s very nice of you. I do tend to ask many questions and sometimes that may be irritating to some. I don’t think I did anything wrong. I love good conversation. I don’t have many answers. I like to think deeply about things. Questioning helps me do that. I try not to hold too tightly to my opinions. I try to learn from others. I try not to name call or denigrate others online. I’m sure I’ve made mistakes in that and contradicted myself. I’m a work in progress! 🙂
Juneteenth got me to thinking about a historic house we visited back in the 90s in southern Illinois. It might have been the Crenshaw House, and a web trip advised me that it is now closed to the public. Where ever we visited had history of a place where slaves were kept up into the 1870s.
This serves to remind us that there are residual effects of any activity that was once widely practiced but became prohibited by law. We see this in the ongoing rise of white supremacy which will not go away. Whatever we do to a bust of Nathan Bedford Forrest or other confederate re-invented heroes, there will still be people who create these famous people in the image they need. Historical figures are part reality, part fiction. They serve to produce support for the ideas of a particular person or group, and they often bear little resemblance to the actual person.
June 19 is as good a day as any to commit ourselves to a philosophy that allows us to love one another.
In 1973 in an American Literature class at University of South Carolina of 30 students, 30 students and the professor said the Civil war was fought over States Rights, not slavery. I said that it was over the States’ right to own slaves. That was not a popular opinion then or now. There is a kind of social brainwashing that continues today. BTW, my mother taught American and South Carolina history. She took her students and me sometimes to the museams and slave market in Charleston. Reading and knowing history does not change what some people understand from it.
Chuck, you were right.
Call me naive, but today I learned that Yale University is named after a slave trader who held a high ranking executive position in the East India Company. Not just a slave owner. A slave trader deeply involved in perhaps the most shameful corporate enterprise in the history of the world.
Will Yale officials and all Yale grads join me in demanding that Yale needs to change its name?
Same with Brown University.
Absolutely.