Betsy DeVos is opposed to separation of church and state. She thinks that state bans that prohibit the funding of religious schools should be ended. In a speech yesterday in New York City to the Alfred E. Smith Society, which is allied with the Archdiocese of New York, she said that such bans originated in anti-Catholic bigotry and should be eliminated.
DeVos noted that these amendments are still on the books in 37 states. And though she didn’t get into this in her speech, that includes her home state of Michigan. Back in 2000, DeVos helped lead an effort to change the state’s constitution to allow for school vouchers. It failed.
She said that “there’s hope that Blaine amendments won’t be around much longer.” She noted that last year, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that it was unconstitutional for a state-funded playground restoration program in Columbia, Mo., to exclude a facility on the grounds of a church. (That case is Trinity Lutheran Church of Columbia, Mo. v. Comer . More about it here.) School choice advocates are hoping that ruling will prod state lawmakers to re-examine Blaine amendments.
“These amendments should be assigned to the ash heap of history and this ‘last acceptable prejudice’ should be stamped out once and for all,” DeVos said.
But Maggie Garrett, the legislative director at Americans United for the Separation of Church, a nonprofit organization in Washington, has a different take on the state constituional amendments, which she referred to as “no aid” clauses.
“Like with many things, Betsy Devos has her facts wrong,” Garrett said. “It’s a simplistic and inaccurate view of the history. There were many reasons why people support no-aid causes, many of them were legitimate.” And she noted that states continue to support such amendments. Recenty, for instance, Oklahoma tried to strike its clause through a state referendum, but the effort was resoundingly defeated
And she said that DeVos is “overstating” the impact of the Trinity Lutheran decision, which, in Garrett’s view, applied narrowly to playground resurfacing.
Federal Role in School Choice
DeVos also gave a shout-out to states—including , Florida, Illinois, and Pennsylvania—that have created so-called “tax credit scholarship programs,” in which individuals and corporations can get a tax break for donating to scholarship granting organizations.
DeVos worked behind the scenes last year to get a similar, federal program included in a tax overhaul bill, but was ultimately unsuccessful, sources say. Still, school choice advocates haven’t given up on the idea.
In her speech, though, DeVos acknowledged that a new, federal school choice program might be tough to enact, and even undesirable.
“A top-down solution emanating from Washington would only grow government … a new federal office to oversee your private schools and your scholarship organizations. An office staffed with more unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats tasked to make decisions families should be free to make for themselves. Just imagine for a moment how that might impact you under an administration hostile to your faith! ” she said. “So, when it comes to education, no solution—not even ones we like—should be dictated by Washington, D.C.”
She also conceded that Congress isn’t too keen on the idea. “In addition, leaders on both sides of the aisle in Congress—friend and foe alike—have made it abundantly clear that any bill mandating choice to every state would never reach the president’s desk,” DeVos added.
DeVos is right that the Blaine amendments were created at a time of anti-Catholic bigotry, but they have grown popular over time because most Americans do not want their tax dollars used to support religious schools. Whenever Blaine amendments have been taken to the public in state referenda, they are overwhelmingly defeated. As the nation has grown more diverse in religious practice, Americans have repeatedly rejected efforts to subsidize religious schools.
The best protection of religious liberty, as the Founders understood, is to keep it separate from government. When religious institutions take government money, government regulation will in time follow.
In the nearly two dozen state referenda intended to repeal prohibitions on public funding of religious schools, none has passed. The rejections have been overwhelming. In Michigan, when Dick and Betsy DeVos paid for a repeal effort, the public said no by a margin of 69-31%. Betsy learned nothing from that defeat.
In Florida, Jeb Bush and Michelle Rhee campaigned for a “Religious Liberty amendment” to allow public funding of religious schools, and it went down 55-45%. If they had called it a referendum to permit public funding of religious schools, it probably would have gone down by 70-30%.
The only way that voucher supporters get their way is by concealing what they want, calling vouchers by euphemisms. In Florida, the state circumvented the state constitution and the results of referendum by calling their voucher program “Education Savings Accounts” or “Tuition Tax Credits.” Only by lying can they push vouchers. The public said no, and they did it anyway.
The fact is that the American people do not support vouchers–not for Evangelicals, not for Orthodox Jews, not for Muslims, and not for any other religious group.
The issue in New York State is whether the public should pay for Orthodox Jewish schools where children do not learn English, or science, or mathematics, but take instruction in Yiddish.
The public doesn’t want to pay for it.
Let’s see what happens in November in Arizona, where the Koch brothers and the DeVos family are scrambling to persuade the public to pay for vouchers.
In every state, let the issue go to the public. When they did it in Florida, the public said no, and the Bush-DeVos crowd ignored the public. How much longer must be deal with their subterfuge, obstinacy, arrogance, and lies?

Re: In Michigan, when Dick and Betsy DeVos paid for a repeal effort, the public said no by a margin of 69-31%. Betsy learned nothing from that defeat.
Actually, Dick and Dickess learned a lot from that defeat — they learned they have to be sneaky …
☞ https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/miscellaneous/
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Like Bill Gates they learned that Democracy is inefficient
“The Billionaire’s Beef”
Democracy’s inefficient
It takes so very long
I really am impatient
To sing my favorite song
So buy me politicians
And buy me think-tank wanks
To ram through my positions
And gain me many thank$
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YES. An essential truth: being told “no” by the public leads only to a growing willingness not to stop or slow efforts, but only to hide and disguise them.
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As a person that has no religious affiliation, I find public financing of anything religious to be highly objectionable. If people choose a faith, they should commit their own resources to support that faith.
I’m also of the belief that the second a private organization receives public money, then it is accountable to the public. So, if Catholic schools want public money, then they can stop charging tuition, take state exams, have those numbers published and abide by all other rules that public schools abide by.
When all items are equal, then we can have a real comparison of all types of schools. This is particularly true of enrollment practices. When charters and parochials have the same rules, then we’ll talk about what works.
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@SteveK: You claim to be an atheist, as is your right. Freedom of religion, implies freedom FROM religion as well.
As an atheist, how do you feel about people attending religiously-operated institutions of higher learning, like Georgetown (Jesuit) , of Southern Methodist University, and receiving public tax money, in the form of Basic Grants, GI Bill money, and federally-guaranteed student loans?
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Where did Steve claim to be an atheist? What I read was “As a person that has no religious affiliation…” You do realize those can be two different things, right? I won’t speak for Steve, but I have no religious affiliation, yet I am also not an atheist. Please don’t ASSume.
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The gentleman did not specifically claim to be an atheist, true and stipulated. Many (not all) people who claim to have no religious affiliation are atheists. Point taken.
When I was in the military, there was no specific designation for atheists, so these people were classified as N.R.P. (No religious preference).
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I never claimed to be an atheist. I said that I have no religious affiliation. That is a distinction.
Conflating mandatory K-12 and selective college admissions is not a winning argument. Even public universities don’t admit everyone. And those universities are compared in ways that are actually meaningful. Colleges tend to abide by similar rules.
Your point is that vouchers would be no different but that is not the case. Because all minors are required to receive an education. And public schools are required to take all comers. This is my primary complaint about the charter v. traditional argument.
Charters have deceptive ways of ejecting undesirable students and then not backfilling. This gives them a huge advantage that a traditional public doesn’t have. What if a teacher could just eliminate their lowest achieving 20%? They’d look awesome every time!
Let’s have everyone function by the same rules is my point. Until then all comparisons are invalid. I’m tired of reading “charter” data over cherry-picked student populations where the ideologues deceptively provide no context to fool the general public.
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“As an atheist, how do you feel about people attending religiously-operated institutions of higher learning, like Georgetown (Jesuit) , of Southern Methodist University, and receiving public tax money, in the form of Basic Grants, GI Bill money, and federally-guaranteed student loans?”
Problematic. Hopefully, students cannot use these scholarships to train preachers and theologians, and nobody teaching and “researching” (ie, praying for) Intelligent Design gets supported by National Science grants.
If your more general point is that US higher is corrupt, you are right: even boards of public higher ed institutions are led by businessmen who are not elected.
But just because higher ed is corrupt, doesn’t mean, we should start corrupting k-12 as well.
Vouchers and charter schools should be outlawed, and not because of the need to separate church and state, but because they destroy public education.
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@Mate Wierdl: I have to burst your bubble. The Supreme Court ruled in 1986, that individuals could use federal/state tax money, to attend an educational institution, to be trained for the clergy. BEOGs, and other federal programs can be used to train individuals to be “preachers and theologians”.
See Witters v. Washington Department of Services for the Blind (1986)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witters_v._Washington_Department_of_Services_for_the_Blind
The decision was unanimous.
The Supreme Court has continually ruled, over and over again, that providing tax money to religiously-operated institutions, is entirely constitutional. Beginning with the Zelman decision, and through the Lemon decision, and Witters, and last year, the Trinity decision, there is no constitutional problem or violation.
That dog won’t hunt.
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The Witters decision was limited to higher education.
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“there is no constitutional problem or violation.”
This is not an argument, Charles. The Constitution has also allowed the scheme that elected Trump, empty-betsy to become secretary of ed, Pruitt to become EPA chief, criminals like Gates or Broad to thrive, people to play with AR 15s, Thurmond to plant a Trojan horse bankruptcy law against Puerto Rico, politicians to blow up the tax code to a 70 thousand page Hydra, so that you can read anything you want into it.
Just because something is not against laws implies nothing of its merits.
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Steve, you forgot to add that they if they get “government” money, they should then be required to pay taxes. Doing so is a form of accountability.
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I think it is high time for both the President and his “Secretary of Education” to study the history of the early American colonies, the early United States and the US Constitution to perhaps (finally) learn why the Constitution was written the way it was. They need to stop trying to do end runs around our laws.
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And end runs around the Constitution
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Thanks, Diane. That’s what I meant and didn’t express it well.
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Well, the Constitution needs to be rewritten so that it’s impossible to do end runs around it and the derivative laws. Can be done.
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Oh, they do study that history. The problem is the history they study is written by David Barton*.
*Barton’s official biography describes him as “an expert in historical and constitutional issues”.[29] Barton holds no formal credentials in history or law, and scholars dispute the accuracy and integrity of his assertions about history, accusing him of practicing misleading historical revisionism, “pseudoscholarship” and spreading “outright falsehoods”.[6][7][8][9] According to the New York Times, “Many professional historians dismiss Mr. Barton, whose academic degree is in Christian Education from Oral Roberts University, as a biased amateur who cherry-picks quotes from history and the Bible.”[5] Barton’s 2012 book The Jefferson Lies was voted “the least credible history book in print” by the users of the History News Network website.[30] The book’s publisher, Christian publishing house Thomas Nelson, disavowed the book and withdrew it from sale. A senior executive said that Thomas Nelson could not stand by the book because “basic truths just were not there.”[23] (from Wiki)
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I cannot think of any civilized, industrialized country in the world where a David Barton would be taken seriously (maybe Russia). He is an expression of an evil American pathology.
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Hey, he’s Glenn Beck’s favorite “historian”.
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He’s what D. Pierce would consider a part of “idiot America”.
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The horror never ends.
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“How much longer must be deal with their subterfuge, obstinacy, arrogance, and lies?”
Until they are dead!
Their god tells them what to do so one shouldn’t expect anything different from them.
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Or until the Rapture, whichever comes first.
“Beam then up, Scotty (I’m begging you”
When Scotty beams them up
Evangelists will go
And then we’ll raise a cup
To everyone below
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SDP,
Could you send a special beam for our Betsy?
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You’ll have to ask Scotty .
He’s in charge of the transporter.
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My son will be attending a private Catholic HS next year (our family is a blend of really loose religious beliefs) to escape bad education policy, common core and the testing nightmare in our state (Md). We will be paying (twice as my husband likes to say!) for this out of pocket. When private school families talk to me about wanting to accept government money, I kindly inform them that if they take the money, they will also have to give in return….and that is usually common core, state mandated testing and “data” analysis/collection. Usually shuts them up pretty fast! It’s the parents who have been paying for their children to attend religious schools for years who seem to want the money, but don’t understand the strings that will be attached, yet it’s the parents fleeing the public school system who don’t want voucher legislation. The grass is always greener, I guess.
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I do not understand your reasoning. Your husband claims to be paying for your son’s education twice. You are paying school taxes to a school that you do not use. And you do not want to have a portion of your school taxes rebated to you, in the form of a voucher. You must be wealthy, or at least wealthy enough to pay twice. Why would you deny less wealthy people, who cannot afford to pay twice, the ability to have some (not unlimited) of the choices that wealthy people like you, already have?
Why do you assume that if a family accepts a voucher, that they will concurrently be forced to accept common core, testing, etc. It seems to me, that the whole purpose of school choice, is to be able to opt-out of such nonsense, and select a school that does not have these encumbrances. The school voucher legislation must be written to give families complete autonomy, and be able to redeem the vouchers at schools which operate independently. Else, there is no point in getting the voucher, and attending the non-public school.
Why do you claim that Q it’s the parents fleeing the public school system who don’t want voucher legislation END Q. I should think that the parents who are choosing to opt-out of the public school system, would want their tax money to cease flowing to the schools that they are “fleeing”. Why not stanch the flow of tax money flowing to these bad schools, and give parents choices?
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Where government money goes, accountability and regulation will eventually follow. If not today, then tomorrow.
The best preservation of religious liberty is separation of church and state.
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With federal “sheckels”, come “shackles”, this is true. When a government disburses money, it normally has the right to supervise the disbursement, and ensure that the money is being used properly.
Nevertheless, legislation can be designed to give families a very large degree of autonomy. When I received a federal basic grant, for my college education, the feds did not supervise the spending. I went to an accredited college, and everyone was satisfied.
The government gives people food stamps (SNAP), that can be redeemed to purchase food for human consumption. If a person wants to spend their food stamps on soda pop and Cheetos, no one will say them nay!
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I have no children. Should I have money refunded to me in the form of a voucher?
Charles, there’s this thing called the common good. You know, where everyone makes a sacrifice for the better of the general community. I’ve never had a fire so should I not pay for the fire department?
Vouchers will just already pay for people who already are paying. It won’t open doors for many who couldn’t previously go. So your argument that it will help the less wealthy is disingenuous. Indiana’s voucher program reflects that over 80% of those receiving vouchers were already attending private / parochial schools.
Vouchers will lead to state oversight. IT’S PUBLIC MONEY! Or else there is no point in comparing educational experiences. How will anyone know if they are actually at a superior school if there are no apples to apples comparisons. Because someone thinks so?
And you want a quality community school system because it’s good for your community. Not everyone will get precious space in these exempt from state oversight dream schools you envision.
Also, some that already attend such tuition schools may find themselves denied spots if this opened up. Seems the lack of vouchers protects families from dealing with the undesirables. But if the pool of applicants expanded say 25% then some who already attend those schools may find themselves turned away.
In a pure school choice system, schools will choose, not the parents. Ask New Orleans parents what percent of the time they get their first choice. It’s less than 50%.
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Because we believe in the concept/idea of public schools! We just don’t like what reform has done to public schools. We do not like common chore. We do not like the overuse/misuse of testing. We don’t like the push for College Board products (AP for all). We abhor the data collection. No, we are not wealthy…..we are fortunate and frugal with income. We would much rather stay in public schools, but cannot afford to sacrifice another child to education reform. It’s too late in the game for change to happen for my children, but I will never stop talking about the bastardization of public education by people who seek to profit from it. And another thing…we pay federal taxes and those taxes are for the greater good for EVERYONE. By your way of thinking, I should be outraged that my federal tax dollars support infrastructure in another state that I will never reside. Take yourself and your Libertarian attitude and shove it up the butts of the Koch Bros where you belong!
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Charles,
Public good are not a “choice” purchased with a voucher.
They are the infrastructure costs of a democracy.
We don’t give taxpayers a “voucher” that they can use to maintain bridges and roads based on whether they personally benefit from that bridge or road.
We don’t give taxpayers a voucher to pay for either a police force or private security guards for their own gated community.
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Charles, your examples are false equivalencies. Again, with the college thing. Colleges can choose NOT to accept that student and therefore not accept their money. Public schools can’t do this.
EVERY child must receive an education. All of them. A system of vouchers could make it possible that a child is turned away by every school. I know people that were rejected by every four-year college they applied to. It’s possible. College and K-12 are not the same thing.
However, your Cheetos example could be more fitting. You’re suggesting people make bad choices with the money. I, for one, see the typical American as being very naive about what constitutes the right school. In my own state, legislators want to get rid of dashboards and replace it with single letter grades. If parents were such skilled consumers, couldn’t they just interpret the dashboards rather than a simplistic single character? So, yes, what happens when a parent makes a choice that’s actually a bad choice? Is that the child’s fault?
My cousin has chosen to homeschool her child. This has worked out very poorly. Yet, she insists that it’s for the best. Consumers make bad purchasing decisions all the time.
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NYC: I feel you have made the case succinctly. Those of us who really believe our own children need something different need to push the policy with their presence at school board meetings or send our children to private schools at our own expense. Making society pay for our religious views makes our commitment to that religion questionable.
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@Steve K: I also have no children. I am glad to pay school taxes, to support the fine schools here in Virginia. I want to live in an educated society. I also pay taxes for the prison system, even though I have no relatives in the Big House. I want to live in a safe society, where the bad people are locked up.
I have never had to call the fire department, either. But by having a fire department, my fire insurance rates are lower, so it is cost-effective.
Of course, people who already utilize non-public schools will benefit from school choice. This is a good thing. If these people can utilize their voucher for additional tutoring, or other legitimate educational expenditure, then fine. The fact that some Indiana families who are participating in the voucher program were already sending their children to non-public schools is irrelevant. They are getting a break, and that is good.
I give parents more credit than you do. Parents can and will select the non-public schools for their children, based on the information that is available to them on the internet, and from other parents at the choice schools.
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@Lisa M: I am still having trouble, in getting your reasoning. You say Q we believe in the concept/idea of public schools! END Q, and then you pull your child out of the school you say you believe in. Am I missing something? You sound like the waitress who works in a restaurant, and then does not eat there.
You say Q We would much rather stay in public schools END Q and then you do not stay there.
You say Q cannot afford to sacrifice another child to education reform. It’s too late in the game for change to happen for my children, but I will never stop talking about the bastardization of public education by people who seek to profit END Q
It sounds like you have given up on the public school system (in your community). Many people on this blog tout (correctly) that public school systems are democratically controlled. Why are you not down at the school board meetings, demanding change to the system you say you support? What about the other children who are stuck there? Don’t you care about the community?
I never said that people should not pay federal taxes for infrastructure spending in other states. I pay gasoline taxes, that might be spent on a highway in California, and Californians pay road taxes, that might be spent on a bridge here in Virginia. So what?
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Expanding religious “freedom” is the on the Trump agenda, if and only if the freedoms flow to evangelicals to use the pulpit to endorse candidates for political office. That is prohibited. See this for the refreshing of the “faith-based initiatives” that entered federal policy in the Bush years.
https://ffrf.org/news/news-releases/item/32298-new-executive-faith-order-another-blow-to-constitution
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Thank you, Laura.
The best way to understand the Trump agenda is to recognize that it is dictated by whatever Evangelicals want. They don’t care how many porn stars he beds or pays off; they don’t care if he pays for abortions, so long as he expands their religious views into the public domain and imposes them on others.
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An editorial in our local paper by a nationally syndicated author claimed “…we finally have a president who will stand up for what is right…” His credentials included being a pastor. His version of standing up for what was right included the appointment of Gorsuch, disemboweling the EPA, and a host of issues that bore little relation to his religious background. If he is an indication, you are absolutely right.
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Actually, if we’re going to consign something to the “ash heap of history” (yeesh to that phrase, especially coming from Secretary DeVos) I vote for Calvinism.
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The question that troubles me is how something only existing in our imagination can be part of history, and even shape it. Weird stuff.
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Debatable— but many already believe we are already funding religious schools with tax dollars through the Gulen Charter Schools. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2016/07/20/turkey-seeks-probes-of-american-charter-schools-it-says-are-linked-to-fethullah-gulen/?utm_term=.afbdadf3b997
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Yes here is another example of why charter schools will be a disaster for this country. Now we have muslims wanting to set up their “religious” charter schools with all muslims attending using American tax payer monies. Can anyone fathom muslims taking over our school systems and using our tax dollars to pay for muslims to prey five times a day.
No, charter schools must go away into the abyss.
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What is a “muslime school”?
In any case, why does the idea of Muslims setting up charter schools scare you more than Christians and/or Jews doing the same?
For the record, I’m opposed to all of the above. But if we’re going to open government funding to religious institutions, there is absolutely no reason that Muslim institutions should be excluded.
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There is an excellent Madrass right here in Fairfax, Virginia. see
https://www.kaa-herndon.com/
When school choice/vouchers come to Virginia, families will be able to redeem them at this school.
BTW- Ramadan began yesterday, the holy month of Islam.
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School choice will not come to Virginia. I will not celebrate public support for religious schools as you do.
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we do not want mid evil times wardrobes walking around in this country while we have to pay for the visuals…
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I spoke by telephone with Governor Northam last week. He made it clear, his non-support of school choice. The Virginia legislature has passed several school choice proposals in the past, and previous governors have always vetoed them.
I can safely say, that school choice in Virginia is DEAD as long as this governor is in office.
I cannot predict the future, but I think that the issue might be revisited in future administrations.
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School choice helps no one.
It will disappear.
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Gee Betsy, will that include private Muslim schools too? Or will funding only go to Christian schools that meet with your approval?
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Well, it didn’t seem to bother her that she was visiting Jewish Yeshiva schools that refuse to teach english, math and science yet take tax money. I don’t think Betsy is too selective about about any religion as long as the money keeps flowing into her bank account. Greedy, good christian that she claims to be.
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You have to remember the role that the Jews have to play in the evangelical rapturing for the xtian fundies. That should give you a clue as to why DeVos might think fundie Jewish schools are fine and dandy.
I have no problem with religious schools if that is what parents want (fundamental constitutional right for parents to be able to do as they wish in educating their children), AS LONG AS they do not receive any government monies. Let those religious institutions stand on their own, especially since they gladly take all the tax exemptions that they can.
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I’m with you 100%
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Betsy DeVos is one of those unelected and unaccountable and for her absent most of the time, bureaucrats.
But since Betsy is allegedly donating her $199,700 salary to four nonprofits, maybe that justified her not showing up for work most of the time.
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When your net worth is $5 Billion, you don’t need a salary.
Trouble is, she doesn’t understand why teachers are not satisfied to live on $45,000
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Betsy also probably can’t understand why teachers want medical care and a retirement plan that allows them to afford to retire when they have worked for most of their lives and are getting old. After all, Besty, who has never really worked a day in her life, probably has no plans to retire so why should anyone else.
I mean, why would Betsy want to retire from being a billionaire?
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“Absent minded Betsy”
Betsy’s absent ALL the time
Cuz Betsy’s absent-minded
Skull is empty, that’s the crime
By emptiness she’s blinded
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empty-betsy
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Betsy is empty and we know what Trump is “full” of.
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Betsy DeVos was born with Anencephaly.
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so …. these public funded religious schools will agree to teach science, climate change, evolution, sex education, health, civil rights movement, distinguish religious doctrine from facts, teach the Bible as literature but not the Bible… accept all kids with disabilities… accept all English Language Learners… take State tests (ha)! … report all financials…
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Exactly: these religious schools would have to corrupt their own principles in order to receive public money. I bet the best ones (and there are some great ones) would refuse to do that—as they should.
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Betsy is a ditz and not qualified. She’s just the go-fer for the PAY to PLAY Club of the .01%ers who need slaves to survive.
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