As a Jew who believes in religious freedom and nonsectarian public schools, I find this troubling. Do you?
I don’t care what your religion is. Practice it. But leave me out.
This is Mike Pence’s world, not mine.
August 1, 2017
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CEF Wins Injunction Against Indiana School District
INDIANAPOLIS, IN – Today, an Indiana Federal District Court granted Child Evangelism Fellowship’s (CEF) requests for a preliminary injunction against an unconstitutional policy that the district used to discriminate against Good News Clubs. Liberty Counsel represents CEF nationwide. One of the ministries of CEF is Good News Clubs for children K-5.
The case, Child Evangelism Fellowship of Indiana, Inc. v. Indiana Metropolitan School District of Pike Township, was filed to secure the same access and benefits for the Good News Clubs that non-religious groups currently enjoy. The school district required CEF to pay facilities use fees for Good News Club meetings, while waiving the fees for similarly situated, non-religious groups. For nearly two school years, the school district ignored CEF’s numerous attempts to resolve the constitutional violations. This deprived Pike Township elementary students of the Good News Club’s program, which CEF offers to all interested students free of charge.
Horatio Mihet, Liberty Counsel’s Vice President of Legal Affairs and Chief Litigation Counsel, recently presented oral argument before the court. Today, Judge William T. Lawrence granted CEF a preliminary injunction against Policy 7510, which gives the superintendent unfettered discretion to determine which groups pay a facilities usage fee.
“We are pleased that the district policy has been blocked by the court,” said Mat Staver, Founder and Chairman of Liberty Counsel. “The school district cannot discriminate against the religious viewpoint of Good News Clubs. This has been the clear ruling from the Supreme Court since 2001. This ruling comes just in time for the beginning of a new school year. Good News Clubs are good for children, parents, and especially good for schools,” said Staver.
CEF has been encouraging learning, spiritual growth, moral development and service to others since 1937 and is actively expanding its ministry into new nations and new areas within nations, with a goal of reaching “Every Child, Every Nation, Every Day.”
Liberty Counsel is an international nonprofit, litigation, education, and policy organization dedicated to advancing religious freedom, the sanctity of life, and the family since 1989, by providing pro bono assistance and representation on these and related topics
Diane Ravitch's blog 
I don’t like this ruling either, but I’m struck by the fact that some groups are waived fees – that seems to be the problem! All non school sanctioned clubs, teams etc. should pay a usage fee – in other words, if the clubs are part of the school activities & moderated by a faculty member &/or connected to curriculum, they would be approved & not need to pay a building “rental” fee.
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Second that, former cheesehead. Public schools should not discriminate unless against ALL private entities.
Interesting that the SCOTUS just ruled that private, religious schools have rights to public funds for property development and maintenance (starting with melted tire chips) though. Does this mean that in Indiana, anti-abortion groups have to allow and sponsor building use if local, public schools want to teach extracurricular classes on Darwin’s Evolution of the Species in church schools or, what I can only assume are called anti-abortion operations headquarters or health clinic bomber war rooms? Just wondering.
I am also a Jew who believes in religious freedom and nonsectarian public schools. I want my matzo ball soup and I want to buy it myself! And so, when I see religious groups fighting to break the wall of separation between church and state in general, I see that damage is done to all concerned. And I am reminded of the Scopes Monkey Trial and Clarence Darrow, who noted that the Bible says, “He who troubles his own house will inherit the wind.”
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Yeah, I agree. This does smell like discrimination. Either charge for all outside groups or none of them.
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Evangelicals are just not capable of keeping their beliefs to themselves. They must force them on everyone, everywhere.
If churchs can force themselves into schools can secular schools force themselves into the churches?
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A test case on that is called for here. Evangelicals would likely be outraged to find the shoe on the other foot.
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Jon, for sure. Imagine what a mess public schools would be if every religious sect claimed the right to proselytize
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JL,
I’m wondering how CEF of Indiana would feel if Wiccans scheduled meetings in same schools at same time as their meetings …
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Indiana once more becomes a leader in dumb decisions. Religious groups have no business operating on public school grounds. It is one step closer to no separation of church and state.
Religious groups will regret the day when politicians begin telling them what they can and can’t do. That time is approaching and one of the steps closer is a decision like this.
One of the major problems with the Middle East is how closely religion is entwined with politics. Our founding fathers believed in separation of church and state for very good reasons.
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See West Side Community Schools v. Mergens (1990). Public schools can permit clubs of a religious nature to operate on school grounds. The court ruled this 8-1.
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Can the school get them to promise to leave others alone and not attempt to evangelize or proselytize on school grounds?
You think you are a libertarian, Charles, but it is okay with you if religious zealots exercise their “freedom” to impose their views on people who don’t agree.
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It is difficult to answer your question. I believe that publicly-operated schools can accommodate extra-curricular, after-school clubs, with minimal disruption to students who do not wish to participate. My high school had a “Fellowship for Christian Athletes”, which operated, and no other students were harassed or proselytized.
Allowing students to meet on campus to discuss religion after school did not amount to state sponsorship of religion, the Court said: “We think that secondary-school students are mature enough and are likely to understand that a school does not endorse or support student speech that it merely permits.”
I am a libertarian in most respects. I do NOT believe that “zealots” should force their views on people who do not wish to agree with their beliefs.
There is a line between permitting religious groups/clubs to meet on school property, and forcing unwilling students to listen to their theology.
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The wallet has no separation of church and state.The backside spells it out.
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Here is another case in Indiana, same legal group claiming infringements on religious liberty, also this year.
Indiana Bill Protects Prayer for Students
Apr 25, 2017
The Indiana Senate and House recently passed a bill that would protect public school students from discrimination when they are praying or engaging in religious activities before, during and after school. HB 2014, sponsored by Rep. John Bartlett, has been sent to Governor Eric Holcomb for signature.
HB 1024 protects the First Amendment rights of students to free speech and religious freedom guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. This bill allows public schools to teach survey courses on world religions and students to pray in school and express their views on God in schoolwork. It allows religious student groups to use school facilities and provides that students may not be discriminated against based on their religion.
Supporters of HB 1024 used Liberty Counsel’s case involving Carmel High School’s pro-life student club as an example after school administrators censored and discarded the students’ previously approved adoption poster display. Carmel Teens for Life members, represented by Liberty Counsel, was prepared to litigate, but the school reversed course after receiving a demand letter. Mary Carmen Zakrajsek, president of the pro-life club, addressed the Indiana House Education Committee in support of HB 1024 prior to the vote. Zakraisek said, speaking from her recent experiences, “Student voices are being silenced and it’s time to take a stand.”
Some of this is posturing.
Survey courses on world religions have not been prohibited by law, nor is prayer before and after school. Religious expression may be included in school assignments that invite student expression of their viewpoints (e.g., write a poem, picture something you admire). During classroom instruction in any subject, out- loud prayer is probably different (e.g. interrupting instruction).
On the other hand, students who elect to be critical of religious belief can be censored and the teacher can be fired. In the 1970s, a high school art teacher in Ohio was fired because a student portrayed Christ as if a branded product being marketed. The assignment was to critically address popular culture of the day. The student’s idea source was the televangelist extravaganza PTL produced by Tamara Faye and Jim Bakker.
Thanks for the post. I found a file I thought I had lost forever, a 2003 list of extreme right wing organizations put together by People for the American Way–when the organizations were founded, budgets, leaders, legislative and lobbying agendas. Many of the biggies, not all, were formed in the 1990s.
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“This bill allows public schools to teach survey courses on world religions….”
Oh, public schools need to take them up on that. These courses should include Christianity. I want to pop some popcorn and watch the discussion about how that’s going to be done. The three words “Christians” hate the most are “Some Christians believe….” In their view, it’s not a matter of “some” people believing, it’s a matter of fact. The problem is, various “Christians” have different beliefs about said “facts”. Let’s get the Catholics in a room with the evangelicals and the Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the mainline Protestants and the Mennonites and every other Christian sect and let’s hammer out exactly how we’re going to teach this. Just be sure to have a biohazard team standing by to clean up the bloodbath.
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A Satanic Club appearing in front of the same judge would be interesting. The wall has to be rebuilt . But not on the Mexican border.
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How about a swastika emblazoned, alt-right group!
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In Indiana they would not need to bring it to court
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One word: SCREAM!
This is total nonsense and the evangelicals need to keep their religion to themselves.
What I find repulsive is that the DUMP is such a DUMP and he has no ethics whatsoever, and the evangelicals like him even though he is a total scumbag who panders lies and does BAD everywhere he goes.
There is a reason why state and church must be separate. Wish those evangelicals would stay out of my personal life and those of others. Isn’t religion a PERSONAL thing?
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Yvonne,
I wish someone would explain why Evangelicals like Trump, a man with no religion or morals who has led a dissolute life
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Oh, the Trumpster claims to have conveniently found Jesús. But I think that Jesús is still back in México after having been deported by ICE.
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Since Jesus was very likely to have been a “man of color,” your comment is less facetious than many believers might think.
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A Jesús y a mí nos gusta ese comentario.
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This decision is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. Nor is it the end of the beginning. It is just a chapter in the ongoing push between the French and German Enlightenment and the established religious order. Pushing Pascal and DesCartes aside, later enlightenment figures decided that there was an incompatibility between religion and science. Since that time, religious establishment figures have reveled in the false dichotomy. The fruits of this philosophical debate do not surface when a John Wesley declares that service to others is all that there is to the grace of God. Rather it surfaces when religious establishment figures use science as a thing for their followers to push against. This does not have to be.
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Two bits says the resultant new policies will either be “no outside groups will be allowed to use the district’s facilities, or all will pay at least double the current fees in an attempt to price groups out of using the facilities.
I cannot agree with the prior policy giving the supe adminimal total discretion in these manners. That policy opens up a bad can of worms of preferential treatment as shown by the court case. Not often I will side with a religious group using public school grounds but in this case I find that my sympathies lay with that group.
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Perhaps any organization that applies to use the facilities must show that they have paid the proper taxes that go to the public schools. If a religious organization doesn’t pay those taxes, then they shouldn’t be able to use the facilities.
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I like the logic. If you have not paid such taxes, the public schools are entitled to charge a fee for facility use, including overhead.
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DING DING
Proper taxes for the Proper Social Order!
Dewey’s Pedagogic Creed statement of 1897
“Every teacher should realize he is a social servant set apart for the maintenance of the proper
social order and the securing of the right social growth. In this way the teacher is always the
prophet of the true God and the usherer in of the true kingdom of heaven…”
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I second Laura.
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Which probably means that most groups should be paying for the use of the facilities. A majority of the organizations using the schools probably do not own real estate, so they are not paying for the schools. The issue is probably not as easy to resolve as we might wish.
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Then perhaps a sliding scale of fees should be instituted.
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True, Señor.
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Study shows that “ineffective” testing-grade teachers (i.e. teachers that don’t get those test scores up) are assigned to K, 1, and 2, where there are no state standardized tests. It focused primary on Miami-Dade County Public Schools, the nation’s fourth largest school district.
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/07/the-collateral-damage-of-testing-pressure/534717/
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I’m okay with it as long as they extend the same offer to the Buddhists, the Hindus, the Muslins, the Jains, the Satanists, etc. They should not discriminate as to what religion they are supporting.
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Not to be a brat, but what would the district do if a Kids for Satanic Fellowship group wanted to rent ( and pay) the same way? Or what if there was an LGBT, Muslim, or Pagan Kids group? For some reason, and I have seen plenty of examples where this is true, there would be a community backlash against a religious or social groups ( paying or not, after school hours) -and that to me is more foul than Evangelicals trying to get in the public mix. I personally think either all pay or none pay, and if its not in public school hours unduly exposing peoples kids to what they disagree with, whatever- but it seems odd that a church group cant use a church! Maybe no venues exist. As a parent with kids in the public school system, in a town with churches of the strictest kind on ever block, and myself as a self excommunicated Catholic with more Eastern, and Earth Pagan leanings than anything else, we find ourselves with few who are not in some way indoctrinated. Because we
choose public schools,
I expect all religions or no religions are taught, and while I dont mind if religious kids excuse themselves to pray, it should not cut into learning time for others. My kids are taught on ethics,empathy, compassion, honest communication accountability, apology,forgiveness, and the golden rule. The rest is for home, for our family, and not necessary to proselytize in school. Even for my own experience, as a self declared vegetarian at 9, I wore my pins on my jacker and had stickers on my folder, but not considerations were made for me in the lunchroom or classroom, I had to sit with the meat eaters and accept what they were doing regardless of how bad it made me feel. I didnt push it on others,and even making mention could mean being teased,so only the most kind, openminded, and equally “odd” kids were my friends.. its still that way and Im near 40.
I left these choices to my 3 children and they had to be able to defend them. So honestly, we dont live in a theocracy, we have a polytheistic country, that is implied as a secular public society. If people do not like this, there are many alternative ways of dealing with it, some more convenient than others. It is absolutely unacceptable that this right wing fanaticism trickle down economic apocalyptic based Republican sect is gerrymandering its way into power all over this country, and doing everything it can to impose its beliefs into all branches of government by way of large amounts of money in politics and policy. That is not a democracy, it a hybrid of terrible that could quickly slide down a slippery slope of theocratic fascism before we know it if we free thinking lovers of freedom of choice and democracy do not fight back in the voting booth in the streets and with our dollars, and by golly teach our kids some Howard Zinn history lessons and how to be civically engaged!
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“. . . and myself as a self excommunicated Catholic. . .”
Glad you joined the club. I guess we’ll meet in Hell, eh!
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Diane, you wondered why 80% of Evangelicals voted for Trump. He is, or at least he says he is, wealthy. There is a segment who have been taught that God blesses those who are wealthy. The ministers of huge megachurches demonstrate their success and love by God by showcasing wealth. If you have the right love of God, you too will become wealthy. One minister commented that Trump was a blessing from God.
……..
http://thebea.st/2hbr8fR?source=email&via=desktop
Evangelicals Love Donald Trump Because Jesus Loves Rich People
…A very weird thing happened after World War II, however. As described in Kate Bowler’s Blessed: A History of American Prosperity Gospel, as evangelicals enjoyed postwar prosperity, preachers changed their tune. Maybe it’s not so bad to make money after all, some said. In fact, argued early “prosperity gospel” like E.W. Kenyon and “new thought” preachers like Norman Vincent Peale, maybe wealth is actually a sign that God loves you. After all, doesn’t the Old Testament say that if you’re faithful, God will ensure your crops grow?
Thus was created a new religious doctrine that, in Bowler’s words, “God grants health and wealth to those with the right kind of faith.” In the 1950s, it was mostly on the fringes. But by the 1980s, it had become the predominant view among conservative Christians in America.
Not coincidentally, these changes were accompanied by a profound political realignment…
Ken Blackwell, Trump’s domestic policy transition director, reflects the new Christian right’s hybrid of hypercapitalism and social conservatism…
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Is blessed are the meek done?
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That’s outdated. The new improved version is, “Blessed are the wealthy for they shall inherit the earth.”
I don’t understand why Jesus’s message to love and help the poor, the sick and the needy totally gets lost in this false worship of money. This is sick. Since this is the only message coming from God it needs to be forcefully pounded into everyone else. Guess we all are supposed to be as moral and ethical as blessed Trump. EEK!
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Jesús nunca me dijo nada de que le gustan a los ricos. Creo que dijo algo de amar a los pobres.
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take out the “a” after gustan. ay ay ay
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They will be meeting their creator before long.
https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/files/2016/08/EWCA-PRRI-Religious-Affiliation-by-Age.png&w=1484
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Cannot imagine why anyone would not be open to allowing these kids to meet in the school building for free. Give me a break! So I guess it’s because they’re Christian they should not be allowed? Sounds like they allow anyone to join the group. By the same token, a Jewish group of kids gathering for a good news club – or any group of kids gathering for a positive reason should be allowed to use a public facility for free. Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts etc. For crying out loud, they don’t have money to pay these kinds of fees. Cannot imagine being so legalistic that we would disallow use of a facility without charging these kids. What a sad state of affairs. Thank God for the local Catholic school in my town that allows an NA
( narcotics anonymous ), AA and other groups who are in need of meeting space to meet for free. Are we against these groups meeting as well? So discouraging…
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You’d say the same for a Satanist group? Pagan? Muslim? LGBTQ?
Anyway, I think it’s a riot that you think these churches don’t have the money. The Catholic Church is one of the richest organizations in the world. Have you seen these giant megachurches? No lack of money there either. Heck, even my parents’ small Methodist church could afford to pay the modest fees that schools charge. Especially because none of those organizations pay taxes. Why do you think they are entitled to use public facilities when they don’t contribute to the public good?
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Like!
(Dienne, You’re way too logical for those whose illogic stems from faith beliefs.)
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Duane-
Be curious, not judgmental.
– Walt Whitman
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Dienne,
The Catholic Church has less money after paying for pedophile settlements.
Most mega churches are not Catholic.
Newark (NJ) Archdiocese has had to close/consolidate many K-8 parochial schools and even a few high schools.
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First, the pedophile scandal was the Catholic Church’s own fault, so no sympathy there. Second, nevertheless and notwithstanding, the Catholic Church remains one of the richest (and most powerful, incidentally) organizations in the world. Third, I didn’t say megachurches are Catholic (they’re almost always non-denominational evangelical). What I said was they too have plenty of money. Fourth, Catholic schools have had to close and consolidate because of competition from charters. That’s why the Catholic Church wants vouchers – they want that money funneled their way.
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Incidentally, what do you consider a “positive reason” to use a school? Would, say, a group opposing abortion constitute a “positive reason”? What about a group that supports abortion rights? Still positive? What about a group that supports LGBTQ rights? One that opposes them?
I suppose we could say any “non-political” use. But you know that the Boy Scouts allow for discrimination against gay and trans leaders and scouts, right? And that the Girl Scouts are openly and adamantly inclusive of gay and trans scouts and leaders? So would those be “political” issues that would preclude either or both of those groups from using the space?
Just who gets to decide this and how?
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Chastisement taken under consideration!
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At the same time as I consider what Whitman wrote, I reserve my judging for those who take so much, give so little (not talking $$ as that is a false giving used to assuage consciences) not for those who give so much and take so little. For without that judging bastards and SOBs get away not only with more than they need but at times murder itself. Without societal censure/condemnation of judging those who would take all for themselves would be left unfettered to do their damage.
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Public tax dollars make it possible for school facilities to be used after school hours by the community and public tax dollars pay the stipends for club advisors and coaches. What if I as s taxpayer do not want to support evangelism or any other religious view?
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See West Side Community Schools v. Mergens (1990). Public schools can permit clubs of a religious nature to operate on school grounds. The court ruled this 8-1.
Public school teachers are NOT paid to serve as advisor/coaches to these clubs.
Clubs like the Fellowship for Christian Athletes, or the Order Of DeMolay can meet on public school grounds, after school hours. Even Satanists, Wiccans, Hindus, Muslims, etc.
If a taxpayer is opposed to this, you really have no choice. Some taxpayers are opposed to paying for public schools that are integrated.
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Ah, Charles, we know you are soft on Wiccans.
Are there any Wiccan universities?
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You obviously know little about public school building operations Charles. Who keeps the buildings open and operating safely after school hours? A licensed public school administrator and/or custodian/engineer who is paid with tax dollars. If religious groups want to use a facility for religious purposes they may use a church, synagogue or mosque or pay the fees that other groups pay in order to run the building which costs $.
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