Since I started this blog, I have periodically named people as heroes of American education because they have been courageous in standing up for the rights of children, for good education, and against powerful and misguided policies that do harm to children and public education. Some have risked their careers and liivelihoods. They deserve recognition.
Now along comes John Merrow, whose work I have often praised, comparing me on his blog to the Tea Party extremist on the right Ted Cruz.
Merrow also takes a gratuitous slap at people who support my views, calling us leftists. That’s wrong. I speak up on behalf of educators And parents, not the left or the right or any political faction.
I was stunned. I sent him the following response.
“John
I was hurt by your comparing me to Ted Cruz
Very offensive
I have no staff, no funding. I take insults and abuse on a daily basis. I am 75 years old and doing what I think is right.
I don’t claim to be a hero
I haven’t taken a bullet like the staff at Sandy Hook
I regularly name hero superintendents and parents and teachers who have the courage to speak up for what’s right
I was about to write a column naming you a hero for your pursuit of the truth about DC and the obloquy you took
No point to that now
I just don’t understand your sly putdown of me
Diane”
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Diane, I hate to say I told you so, but this is the real John Merrow. He’s still a rheephormer, even if he doesn’t quite exactly worship Rhee herself. In this article he approvingly quotes a guy from KIPP. And if that doesn’t say it all, our own dear Joe Nathan gave him a “well done”. Now you know his stripes as well.
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A big, YES, on all counts.
For Merrow to proffer KIPP’s military style education for children of color as the acceptable “messy middle” defies all that his own hero, Nelson Mandela, stands for.
Though Joe’s self-righteous stripes abound here as well, I was taken aback by his “well done” comment, too.
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Indeed, sounds like Merrow took a lot of heat from his peers because of his research on Rhee and is trying to get some separation. Wouldn’t want to be branded as a supporter of the status quo and get left out of those keen reformer shindigs or anything…
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Gee John what gives? I can only guess that someone has made you a nice offer in exchange for this piece that is a complete 180.
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Diane…as you have told me many times this past year, we must stay focused and not let these foolish statements affect our directed goals of improving public education for all children.
You remain a hero to most educators for you keep us grounded and informed. Merrow seems perhaps to be getting a tad senile and certainly not a fearless reporter as we had hoped he would be with the Rheeform issues.
Yes, labeling you and your multitude of American educators as “lefties” is outrageous and diminishes our purpose and our voices. He deserves to hear from us all as to this degradation of principled stances at a time when so few are left in our society who have any ethical principles, and only look to lucre as their prime direction in life.
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A strange word to obsess over and a strange moment to do it, given that it’s been a downhill ride for “heroes” since the Iliad.
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Dear FLERP…as always, you give another important perspective. Yes, heroes are defined in Greek mythology as the top of the citizenry.
But rather, I fear it is the implication Merrow wishes to impart, not by hero use, but by using the term “left” as in “leftie” as a disparaging word, that is far more troubling. It paints all who fight for a fair distribution of wealth, and the outcomes of this distribution in our polarized society of uber wealthy v. everyone else, that is shameful.
I said long ago that Merrow, who was the tout for Rhee, was just another actor with a SAG card. I have no reason to change my mind.
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SAG????
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Duane, Merrow admitted to being a member of the Screen Actors Guild (union) due to his affiliation with PBS.
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This is all about his New Orleans reporting. He expects you to criticize it, so he had to preemptively attack you and call you a “leftist,” even though your opposition to many school “reforms” is actually very conservative.
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Not just her. Any criticism will come from people on the “extremes”. Okay, then!
What’s interesting about it is journalists don’t have a duty to be “in the middle”. That’s ridiculous. They have a duty to be accurate.
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Internet quote of the day!
“Journalists don’t have a duty to be “in the middle”. That’s ridiculous. They have a duty to be accurate.”
Excellent!
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I just think it’s weird.
So much for “I’m an investigative reporter and not pushing an agenda.”
KIPP is the “messy middle” and public school parents and advocates are on ‘the left”. Nifty redefinition of the middle to exclude 90% of schools and kids.
Nice plug for his program, though. Good hook. It’ll get him some pageviews.
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I was appalled to read his comparison of you to Ted Cruz and wrote a comment saying so. I’m increasingly disappointed in John Merrow.
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Yes…thank you wgerson.
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He doesn’t get it and he never will. He probably feels some shame at being suckered into Rheedom, and can’t abide dealing with you and your honesty. You have millions of teachers behind you, while he is the one that got this toxic ball rolling. Besides, he can’t get his Rhee essay published, and has made himself a pariah to both the reformist and the teachers. He is a sad clown.
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Merrow’s not Murrow …
’nuff said.
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Pay him no mind, Diane! You ARE a hero to so many! John Merrow has been VERY wrong before (cough, Michelle Rhee), and he is VERY wrong once again!
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Somebody is lining his pockets.
He always was dishonest.
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I criticized Merrow several times on his blog as a coward, corporate proxy, and propagandist for the piece of trash known as THE EDUCATION OF MICHELLE RHEE.
When Merrow later exposed the depth of the DCPS testing scandal along with matters of malfeasance and fraud, I apologized to Merrow and applauded his determination and integrity as a journalist.
And now this.
I think I’ll go back to my earlier appraisal of Merrow as the corporate proxy of millionaires/billionaires seeking to exploit the most vulnerable for a profit.
If only Merrow had the guts to debate Dr. Ravitvh one on one on PBS.
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Meh. Boring treatise on “the hero” in society. I think this might have heard this one at my high school commencement.
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Just waiting for all the folks vociferously defending Merrow in this blog the other day to pipe up about what a swell guy he is.
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¿Dónde está José N. cuando John Merrow lo necesita?
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“Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence and three times is enemy action.” We have recently seen a failed attempt to cast Diane as just another self interested, self aggrandizing opportunist. Like Rhee. That effort never left the gate, in large part I suspect since it mostly occurred in the comments sections of various articles on ed deform and the posts received the smackdowns they deserved. With this garbage from Merrow coming so soon after Jared Polis’s libelous twitter screed against Ms. Ravitch, it seems clear to me that the professional liars have taken up the “attack Ravitch” baton in an attempt to reach whatever finish line they imagine for their efforts. This is an insurgent psyops action trying to position itself as an insurrection, a coup d’etat. We have to call it what it is as we defend against it. The deformers have been using disinformation, diversion and outright lies and slander like this from the get go. Although this is highly offensive, do not be baited into venturing into their toxic territory, just continue to tell and spread the truth as we have been doing so very well. All they have done here is give us an even bigger and more disgusting lie to debunk and use against them. Never forget that those who are uninformed or on the fence will share our sense of outrage once they see this for what it is. That is one of the big things that has made our numbers grow. I await the third and subsequent shoes dropping as if I’m not mistaken, this is just the beginning. Bring it.
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There have been several mentions of the “messy middle” so this seems to be a coordinated campaign. For example this is from Jessica Levin’s recent attack in the Huffington Post:
”The real error Diane Ravitch has made throughout her career — first from the right and now from the left — is assuming the solutions to our complex education problems can be found at either pole, rather than in the far messier, nuanced grey zone of the middle. At this critical juncture, the question is whether the rest of us can turn our attention to others who can do far more justice to this subject.”
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Thanks a ton for that significant factoid. The “messy middle” is another sales pitch meant to create the illusion that things are much more complicated and opaque than they really are. It’s a rear guard action meant to buy time and confuse those at the periphery of knowledge about this conflict. It also seeks to create the acceptance of the impossibility of research based solutions, of facts and the truth itself. Nice little package deal in very few words. As with all other similar lies, structurally unsound and therefore easy to debunk. Once again thanks for making me aware of this.
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CitizensArrest & map: you two have zeroed in on extremely important points that are fleshed out a bit more by Chiara above.
When the ed debates are redefined to put KIPP in the “messy middle” (= pragmatic, practical, loving, hard-working compassionate ones) with Ted Cruz & hardline nogoodnik rightists then placed at one extreme and Diane Ravitch & nogoodnik hardline leftists at the opposite extreme—
You have a toxic combination of bizarre incoherence and hilarious [?] hostility, with a generous dollop of self-delusion and self-aggrandizement added.
CitizenArrest is exactly on the money when s/he writes that worse is yet to come but we need to stay the course. Don’t be baited into responding in kind. The grosser the distortions, the more hideous the lies of the leading charterites/privatizers and their allies—this blog and others will use their own words and actions to make the case for a “better education for all.”
Let me end with a contrast. Diane Ravitch appeared at a rally where someone called Michelle Rhee an “Asian bitch.”
Link: https://dianeravitch.net/2013/04/05/an-apology-to-michelle-rhee/
I here reprint a bit of what she posted:
“I was not there to hear it, but I was appalled when I read about it here.
I want to make clear that this kind of language is unacceptable and intolerable. No one should resort to racial, ethnic, gender, or cultural slurs to express their views. It is just plain wrong.
I don’t use that kind of language, and I encourage others to have a high personal standard of civility.
We must be able disagree about ideas and policies without getting personal.”
She not only didn’t do the dastardly deed—she didn’t even find out about it until later. Yet honor and decency compelled her to ‘do the right thing.’
On the other hand, John Merrow not only played an indispensable role in creating the public persona of Michelle Rhee, he literally subordinated his personal honor and professional ethics by submitting to her offer to film her firing a principal while she was Chancellor of DCPS.
This did not involve WORDS, this was about DEEDS & MORAL STANDARDS. John Merrow’s blog has no posted apology dedicated to the principal regarding his recording the man’s public humiliation that is equivalent to Diane Ravitch’s dedicated posting about the slur somebody else made against Michelle Rhee.
The space dedicated to “Differential Attention-Getting Incidences” [thank you, psychometricians!] is most revealing. If we are talking about “extremists”: who goes to the extreme of defending decency and honor in public discourse and behavior, and who to treating decency and honor in public discourse and behavior as being of such little importance or value that it merits extremely little space or personal reflection?
Those old dead Greek guys can still teach us a thing or two:
“Rather fail with honor than succeed with fraud.” [Sophocles]
Who stands at the extreme with honor—and who at the extreme with fraud?
Just my dos centavitos worth…
🙂
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Dianne, anyone who speaks truth to power for the common good, without concern for self is a hero.
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I found this on Merrows blog: “Your extremely sloppy conflation of left vs. right with those who pursue the truth and are fully willing to be guided by it and those for whom the truth must be avoided at all costs is appalling and inexcusable. Shame on you. An immediate correction is in order.” This is the core failure of Merrow’s position. He began from a logical fallacy.
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I think I stumbled upon the nature of the messy middle in that bit taken from a comment on Merrow’s blog. Obfuscate and marginalize the truth by presenting the situation as an ideological disagreement rather than a question of fact. Facts lead to conclusions for those working in good faith. Ideology leads to endless unresolvable discussion as in “While the cat’s away the mice will play.”
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Here’s one theory. Thanks to you, Diane, it is beginning to dawn on Merrow and some of the others that the priceless treasures they’ve been collecting for years are nothing more than a huge pile of worthless crap. So they’ve decided to get pissed off at the messenger.
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I have to say I have never trusted him either and now can’t stand him. I bet he had to do that to please the reformers.
I was going to comment on his page, but not worth it.
You are a hero, he is not!!
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John Merrow should be ashamed of himself. Diane is my hero. She is a model of integrity. I’m still flabbergasted that anyone could call Diane extreme. I can’t decide if kind of talk is laughable or cryable.
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My 2 cents for what is was worth on his blog. . .
“For example, Ted Cruz, the US Senator from Texas, is a hero to some on the extreme right because of his strident opposition to Obamacare. Over on the left, Diane Ravitch is a hero to those who share her views on what is happening in public education.”
I do not have a problem with you objecting to Ted Cruz and Diane Ravitch being considered heroes. You want the definition saved for people who save lives or risk their own lives for others. I can respect your discussion of semantics. I do object to your dismissal of Diane as “over on the left.” Ted Cruz is a proud tea party representative who is standing up to what I assume he believes is the right action for our country. But he is an elected official and that is his job. Diane is absolutely not “over on the left” from what I can tell. I have been following her work for several years and can make a case that she is one of the few non-partisan voices in the public school debates. If you look at her views on questioning the Common Core ( since it does not have an evidence base) or her views on using student test schools for teacher evaluations you would find those views are supported by our supposedly liberal president and Secretary of Education. So does that mean she is also a tea party supporter or a conservative republican? Please do not contribute to the mischaracterization of individuals on one side or the other of the political spectrum in the public school debate. That is the problem- both sides are taking the money and trying to destroy public education. You could be the voice of reason in the debate and take on both sides if you wanted. As an investigative reporter I have been hoping you or someone would take on ALEC and the oligarchy we have trying to buy our government, prisons, and schools. Please- we need you to be a hero Mr. Merrow. Not be part of the problem.
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The political class in Washington D.C. is clueless about the rest of the country. That’s who John Merrow spends most of his time with, that’s the opinions he cares about. You are in touch with the people Diane. That’s who you speak for. The D.C. bubble is going to burst one day soon and the political class, and the journalists who are their dutiful scribes, will wonder how they could have been so out of touch.
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1. Who cares what Merrow thinks. I don’t
2. Guess who’s congratulating him on his blog? Answer: Joe Nathan
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Linda: re #2, I noticed that too.
How shameful.
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Wouldn’t you just love to know the story behind these puzzling and decidedly “unheroic” words? I wonder if the moneyed interests paid John a midnight visit?
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As if his lame blog post and the support of one Joe Nathan is going to bring her down.
Pathetic…no one will talk to John but everyone that matters loves Diane.
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And that is why her book has shot–so quickly!–to #10 on The Times Best Seller List!
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Wasn’t his reason for dropping his attention on Rhee-volting due to the constant blow back or something like that? In hindsight, that may be Merrow inadvertently telegraphing a future punch. Probably just the backstory behind it on second thought.
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Linda, I’m still trying to unravel the whole story behind the “Bammy” event. Diane and Merrow are both on the “governing board” of the organization. I can’t find a press report of what Merrow presented. I have to wonder what the Sandy Hook teachers think now, of him using them as a platform to attack Diane Ravitch!
This isn’t the only sour note.
Although many awards were supposed to be designated for actual teachers, apparently those weren’t actually presented, and instead the teachers were actively insulted and mocked during the program.
Here is one of them, explaining how she felt.
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I think Linda has something here.
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Sometimes it’s just fun to sit back and read!!
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Mr. Merrow,
I find it quite amusing that someone who helped Rhee onto her wobbly pedestal of self promotion has the audacity to tell anyone what a hero is. Your comparison of Ted Cruz to Diane Ravitch solidifies my opinion that you really are the type of journalist that will sell the point of view that would gain you the most viewers or readers.
Diane Ravitch is a hero because she stands up for what she believes in, she admits when she is wrong, and her herculean efforts are an inspiration to tens of thousands of her fans.
Heroes don’t take food out of the mouth of children, deny heath coverage to anyone, threaten to destroy our country’s financial well being, ignore the needs of the poor, insult their nation’s duly elected leader, and work towards the destruction of our nation’s human values.
You owe Diane an apology, you owe all of us who view Diane as a hero, an apology, and you owe your readers an apology.
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Excellent comment, @rratto
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My reply to Mr. Merrow:
“Since when does taking a strong public stand qualify as an act of heroism?”
Since Bill Gates, and Eli Broad, and Michelle Rhee, and Pearson, and McGraw-Hill, and the President and Arne Duncan and George W. Bush and Jeb Bush and Scott Walker and Andrew Cuomo et. al. decided that it was acceptable to bully public employees and public school students behind a façade of “data.”
Standing up to bullies, especially when they are rich and powerful, is ALWAYS an act of heroism.
Standing up to bullies is the ULTIMATE act of heroism when facing “the messy middle.”
Heroism DOES reside in the acts of people facing bullets and fires.
Herosim does NOT reside SOLELY in the acts of people facing a bullet or a fire.
How sad to hold such a narrow definition of heroism in your heart.
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Here’s what I posted:
John, the first thing that struck me is, who (in God’s name) are YOU to be giving an award to the teachers of Sandy Hook? Couldn’t they have found anybody at all more worthy? Were you not struck with at least a twinge of humility in such a situation?
Instead, you puff yourself up and hold forth on other people’s heroism. You certainly could have offered yourself as a non-example: after all, you published a column about how you gave up on trying to pursue the truth of the DC cheating scandal, because you were not being praised by influential and powerful people for your spasm of journalistic integrity.
So, your excuse for attacking Diane Ravitch (out of the blue) isn’t anything she’s done, it’s just that many people do consider her work heroic. I’m one of those people, so I am at fault here. I wish you’d asked us why we admire her, but instead you asked,
“Since when does taking a strong public stand qualify as an act of heroism?”
Well, how would you know, of course, since you didn’t have even the stomach to do that. But Diane has done more. For the past year, she has gotten up before dawn every single say and worked so long and hard I have been afraid for her health. By the way, so have I.
But, none of her admirers is asking Diane to slow down, or to take the weight off her feet for a while. We understand how important this mission is, and we see that she’s in a position to make a decisive difference. We know that what we’re asking of her is actual physical heroism, and real, permanent sacrifice if it comes to that.
We’re asking a kind of heroism of each other, because we believe we can save public education from wanton destruction, and hand it on for the next generation of Americans, if enough of us are willing to make the necessary sacrifices and take the necessary risks.
I would have asked it of you, also, if you hadn’t already publicly declared your surrender, to the security and convenience of your hired advocacy industry. What would you know about any of this?
One thing still amazes me. How dare you take those teachers as a platform?
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“Merrow also takes a gratuitous slap at people who support my views, calling us leftists. That’s wrong. I speak up on behalf of educators And parents, not the left or the right or any political faction.”
This. I am deeply conservative, but this isn’t a left/right thing. It’s an either you get public education or you don’t thing. Sadly, many politicians on both the left and the right don’t get it.
I don’t know if Dr. Ravitch is on the left or right or somewhere in the middle, and I don’t really care. She speaks for me and my fellow educators during a time when our voices have been muted. We will not forget.
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Thank you, Cynewulf.
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I guess heroism is in the eyes of the beholder. I personally put Diane on that pedestal. She does what she thinks is right.
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John Morrow isn’t the greatest guy and he has the school reform view for the most part.
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An analysis of the assumed strategy against Diane. Long story short they seek to redefine and reposition her in a place of their choosing where they may use her as a whipping boy.
Both Merrow and Polis indicated a belief in her being of the left in spite of the rather strong evidence that she is an empiricist. Polis is a DINO, and if Rhee is a progressive as she claims then the moon is made of hamsters. Merrow seems to have developed an allergy to facts from his brief excursion into telling the truth on Rhee. Deformers probably helped that happen and then offered him a cure. (sound familiar?) They and the majority of the reform crowd including deluded fauxgressives are either on the right or channeling it, consciously or not. Their assumption is that Diane is found to be most persuasive by the “left” since reformers are of the right (business model) and have seen compliance of thought from their grass roots. They identify teachers as being predominantly of the left. See all the “liberal indoctrination” comments from right wing posts on FB etc. By trying to permanently link her in the minds of said left to the most reviled on the right they seek to separate her from her base, and labeling her as being an extremist and on the fringe they pander to those on the left and right who presume themselves more centrist, and (hat tip to map above) wish to consign them to “the messy middle” where it is hoped they will remain confused by the misrepresentations of the arguments on policy and all the ludicrously deceptive reformy propaganda and graphs etc. Those within the grass roots of the right will soon decide that Ravitch has little in common with Cruz or the Koch’s and is not in fact of the right which further isolates Diane from those who may still be persuaded by facts and might consider her view point since she opposes the Cash Cow State Standards (kudo to @thechalkface)
Deformers didn’t expect #10 on the Times best seller list. Bad move on their part to start this now, another tactic would have backfired less badly, but their echo chamber keeps them from seeing the terrain. I hope they keep lying and moving the goal posts. Just keep handing us those clubs to beat them down with.
Sorry for the longish post, I had it shorter and better worded in my head a while ago before I spent so much time as an after school chauffeur.
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TE: I agree with the comments made by others here. Your comments are at best peripheral. Your questions are off topic. Your goals are not clear, at least to me. So, it appears that you deliberately derail a decent conversation by taking it into YOUR territory. You have a right to your opinion, but if you don’t want to fit into these conversations, why are you here? You said that you prefer the federal oversight to the state control. You bring up Waldorf and Montessori schools as examples, you refer to your sons’ experiences.
It comes off to me as a person who has some bones to pick with public education not doing for you and your sons whatever it is that you wish it to have done. So, rather than coming here to support the movement to stop the CC and to stop these tests, you spend inordiate amounts of time veering tangentially so as to stop the communication.
I don’t really know what you expect. I honestly get exhausted from having been derailed, misinterpreted and then accused of not staying on your train of though. Well, that is usually my intention.
I want this train wreck that is going to happen to our children and teachers to be exposed for what it is. The corporate influence and privatization are the elements of concern, not the use of a speciific private school philosophy. If we ever stop this idiocy of corporate take over of every facet of American life, then maybe those other things can be addressed. But, it is off topic generally.
After all, this is Diane Ravitch’s blog…
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Get ready for a new question….just a warning.
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Deb,
It is interesting how posters can have different perceptions of their posts. This is not a thread about the common core as far as I can tell. There are, many, and you might see how often I have contributed to them. If I do at all, it is usually to point out that building autonomy will likely need to be accompanied by some degree of student autonomy. Without student autonomy, there will never be a wide variety of approaches to public education.
In this thread, you brought up alternative approaches to education. So I thought to follow your lead.
I have posted on a variety of topics here. I am in favor of students being able to choose from a variety of well regulated schools, especially as they get older. I think the the best education for a high school student more nearly resembles what goes on in higher education than it does education for primary school students.
I have argued that peer evaluation is the best way to evaluate teachers, and that we should have increased flexibility in salaries so we do not force very talented teachers into a choice between doing the work they love and what is best for their own family.
I have argued that the often stated “public funds should never go to private hands” is overly broad as it applies to education programs like Head Start, Pell grants, medical care services under Medicare and Medicaid, even research sponsored by the NSF and NIH hands public funds to private hands.
My most recent post outside of this thread suggested that a defined contribution retirement program would address several of the problems with teacher retirement issues that others have raised here.
I have taken many positions on many issues over the last year and a half.
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TE seems to me merely to be asking questions that the majority of the posters OUGHT to be able to answer. Perhaps you see this blog as a bandwagon. I don’t think Diane does, and certainly I don’t. Those who wish to save the public schools need to be aware of some of the interest some people have in charters and vouchers and why and instead of merely shutting them out or shouting them down, try to engage with them rationally and reasonably. Debate can be lively and even acrimonious, but you owe it to yourself to seek more than mere joint cheerleaders.
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Feel free to engage him anytime.
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Right. HU and TE should engage each other in lively debates. Answer each other’s questions and have a great time. Enjoy.
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TE and HU. Go wild. Have fun.
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Harlan, when someone raises points and then, in response to reasonable, civil replies to them, ignores those replies, changes the subject, or otherwise acts as if they never happened, some people begin to suspect that the point is not to have a conversation. I can’t speak for anyone else and never try to, including for Diane, who does a bang-up job of speaking for herself. I think we have someone who is clearly doing something that various people are finding irksome for a few reasons that have been spelled out. I don’t think it boils down to “This is the Diane Ravitch Temple and we True Believers can’t bear to hear our guru bad-mouthed, questioned, or in any way doubted or criticized.”
In fact, I have on occasions demurred from some of Diane’s views, and as I read her book, I continue to note point of departure. But most, if not all of those have to do with a long-term vision for schools, not her critique of the education deform movement, which I find to be spot on thus far.
I’m sure that at some point in the not too distant future, when the Common Core has been stopped in its tracks, at least for the time being, and those of us interested in doing so have been able to get the public conversation to include serious and principled criticism of the privatization attack on public schools, there will be more time and energy to hash out differences about what sorts of reasonable solutions there are for improving both the incredibly unjust system that has created an “achievement [read “poverty”] gap” and which continues to put most of its enormous resources towards maintaining and increasing that gap, as well as to what kinds of schools, classrooms, teaching, etc., would best serve the nation as a whole and the values that are at the heart of “the commons.” [see, for example, http://bollier.org/commons-political-transformation-and-cities%5D
My sense is that in a more just and equitable nation, the one the United States ostensibly set out to be but has never come anywhere close living up to there will be room for variety in American public education and REAL opportunity for “choice.” However, as things stand, the kind of “choice” that the privatizers are talking about is fraudulent for most poor people, particularly those of color, but also white people living in poverty in rural America.
At the risk of drawing the wrath of at least one person, let me recommend in that regard a recently revised and completed blog piece of mine:
http://atthechalkface.com/2013/09/02/microtel-inns-dairy-queens-st-sensible-and-detroit-country-day-realities-and-myths-of-choice/
I love the idea of free choice. But when only a tiny minority of the rich has real free choice about education, then this country doesn’t have meaningful free choice. And no amount of educational deformer rhetoric and propaganda is going to change that fact or pull the wool over the eyes of people paying attention to the shell game.
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I seem to be missing something. First of all, he does not compare you to Ted Cruz except to claim that you are both subject to the same rhetorical use of the word “hero.” He does not claim your methods, beliefs or behaviors are in any way similar. He also does not call your supporters leftists. He says that many on the left support you.
I am a strong supporter of yours, but I wonder why a reference to you that is so mildly critical would cause you to not voice support for actual work he is doing. I have not followed his work in DC, but I would like to hear your take on it. Doesn’t your responsibility to discuss any issues his work raises outweigh this?
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Using Diane and Cruz as examples of the same problem is to attempt to tie them together in the mind of the reader. Merrow has his toes right on the line in this and for someone who did such an objective and exemplary job exposing Rhee and the DC cheating scandal, that is an ethical failure. Had the rest of his work been similarly lax as linking Ravitch and Cruz, we would not be wasting time on this discussion. I too see that a direct comparison was not made, but in this case I think that is a technical distinction only, mere sophistry in the context of his other work.
Similarly, the NCTQ report on teacher quality had one short sentence acknowledging it’s internal flaws but that was entirely insufficient as a disclaimer just as Merrow’s having his toes right up on the line is in this case.
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John Loonam, you are being flat-out dishonest here. You wrongly assert, ” He does not claim your methods, beliefs or behaviors are in any way similar. He also does not call your supporters leftists. He says that many on the left support you.”
On the contrary, this is a direct and ugly quote, pasted straight from the Merrow’s blog:
“I am pretty certain that the same people who idolize Ted Cruz or Diane Ravitch are equally vehement in their disdain for anyone who dares to disagree with their hero (and them). These people inhabit a comic book world without ambiguity where heroes require villains. ”
This isn’t “mildly critical”. Merrow makes bizarre and unsupported accusations about about the beliefs and behaviors of people he claims “idolize” Diane Ravitch. That is meant to include me, I suppose, although in fact I more admire and respect her, rather than “idolize”. I imagine, though, that its real target is Mercedes Schneider.
Mercedes has taken up “responsibility to discuss any issues his work raises”, and published careful and scholarly disagreements with his work on New Orleans. She’s a Louisiana statistician with deep knowledge of the issues she writes about. I feel this attack is his way of deflecting that discussion.
John, I don’t think for a minute you’re a “strong supporter” of Diane’s.
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I have been called a name or two on here, told that no one likes me, asked why I bother to post here, told to shut up and listen to my betters, and alike by some regular posters. I think there is some support to the claim that there is little respect for heterodox views here, or in all likelyhood amoung Ted Cruz’s supporters.
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Yeah, do you remember all the things I was called during that long, interesting conversation with Hirsch? It was way worse than anybody ever says to you. It was really repetitious and continuous, and it filled the page after every single post. Eventually Diane had to warn one prolific and pugnacious writer to stop it.
I’ve disagreed with you a lot, and I can write very pointedly. I’m sure it’s unpleasant for you, to be disagreed with, but that doesn’t mean your opponents = Ted Cruz fanatics, does it? Because, see, when you and Merrow claim that, then YOU’RE the ones who are “vehement in their disdain for anyone who dares to disagree with their hero (and them).”
So, if you want to discuss the following thesis, you’ve come to the right blog:
There is an overall corporate strategy by specific financial interests to turn American public schools into an entrepreneurial “profit center”. To the extent you argue for that project, lots of people disagree with you. That doesn’t mean we live in a comic book world. We are busy organizing enough public support to defeat a very real drive for regulatory control of public resources by insider financiers and their political cronies.
If that includes you, then we are opponents in a real-world struggle for political power. If it doesn’t, and you don’t support it, and you’re in some kind of slippery middle, then you won’t mind when we defeat it, will you?
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TE,
Yes, you have taken some hits. Your comments are frequently peripheral and distracting. On other occasions, you keep us on our toes, but when you don’t take the hint, you are going to get your ears cuffed.
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I have no problem with people disagreeing with my positions. The more classic bullying lines labour no one liking me and I don’t know why you post here have even encouraged me to become more active. The issue is about diversity of thinking, and what happens to posters that do not hold the orthodox line. I think the way Joe Nathan is treated by most of the frequent posters here is a good example. As far as I can tell he is a passionate advocate for education and has found a way to make a living by doing what he believes in. But because this advocacy includes support of well regulated schools with the word charter in front of them, he is regularly personally attacked here. I have even seen his mother accused of not raising him to know the difference between right and wrong.
How many heterodox frequent posters are there here? I can think of three. Others who have occasionally started to post very soon learn that they are not welcome.
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chemtchr & 2old2tch: posting online can lead to unintentional misinterpretation, so I preface the next sentence by making it clear that I am not being sarcastic or insulting.
I sincerely thank you for stating what should be obvious to any responsible mature poster on this blog. The owner of this blog gives broad [although not unlimited] latitude to people of a very wide range of opinions to make their views known here. However, once you got your ticket and start your engines, well, just like Mae West said in ALL ABOUT EVE (1950), “Fasten your seat belts, it’s going to be a bumpy ride.”
🙂
I can’t and won’t speak for anyone else, but this blog is pretty tame compared to some of what I heard in anti-war in Vietnam meetings of thousands discussing the next mass rally. Or civil rights meetings packed with people of antagonistic political leanings planning what and how to picket and protest. Or union gatherings that determined whether or not there should be a strike. **Not just the official speakers at the microphones or podiums but all the discussions in the aisles and the back and outside too!**
Whatever its faults and rough edges, truly democratic wide-ranging discussion is a great teacher. But this I learned: before you can get others to agree with you, you need to earn enough respect from them to listen to you. And as elementary as this sounds, it means:
Give respect to get respect—and to get a respectful hearing.
So let me make one final comment. I sometimes find myself a bit overwhelmed by a day’s postings and all the comments. I don’t always have the time or inclination to go through every last word [sorry Diane, but sometimes this blog is just too darn popular!]. But I don’t skip any comments that have “chemtchr” or “2old2tch” at the head.
I will never promise in advance to agree. But I do promise to read what you post.
“Honest disagreement is often a good sign of progress.” Mahatma Gandhi
Here’s to agreeing and disagreeing—and getting a respectful hearing.
🙂
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Aw, shucks.
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To TE: I am not sure that the objections to posts presented here have anything thing to do with your being a heterodox economist. Yes, there is a mindset of seeking a solution. Yes, various pathways are being considered here. Yes, there is a goal. Your different approach and the asking of questions that you feel are relevant is your “right”. However, often times, it appears that you have a very specific desire to promote types of schools that happen to fit into personal needs of your children. It comes off as reactionary to the public school paradigm. While your ideas may seem to be “stretching thinking” for those of us with a different goal, it seems that you want to turn the conversation back to your specific needs, not to the needs and goals of this particular blog. If you feel mistreated, you might consider how you, yourself, approach others. Maybe it is writing style. Maybe you just don’t see things like others. But, there are many ideas presented here and Diane accepts most all of them. What doesn’t “fly” is attacking others personally or confronting them regularly … or persisting to ask the same questions repeatedly, trying to force the conversation in a different direction. Sorry if you feel you are attacked, but you need to examine your approach, too.
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I am actually a very orthodox economist. I am a heterodox poster on this blog.
I am curious about what you take the goals of the blog to be. I look to the title of the blog, and frame my posts accordingly.
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The merits of charter and private schools are not the goal of this blog, imo. Most of already know about the different types of private schools that you mention frequently … Montessori, Waldorf, etc. Those exist and those who use them or prefer them are welcome to do so.
To me, the purpose of this blog was to bring together people from different walks of life who seek to prevent the demise of public education, not discuss the merits of private education. That discussion is well and good. But, it doesn’t further the cause or provide the solution here. It just goes off on tangential areas that aren’t useful.
I believe that the people here are trying to stop corporate influence and control of education. I believe that the business model is “male” in nature – paternal, top down, punitive, and data driven. Educational delivery has been more “female” in nature for many years – maternal, nurturing, holistic, collaborative, needs driven.
Neither approach is perfect. However, as this country continues to privatize more and more of the service industries, more and more people are going to be shut out. Police, fire, prisons, social services and education are being assaulted by private business people who resent regulation and control. They want the money, but not the responsibility of deliverying on a continuing basis. Look at businesses currently. Smaller corporations are gobbled up every day by larger and larger corporations. Local control, local jobs, local pride are all sapped away to one entity. As this continues, corporate control of education will replace local and personal input.
The CC tends to scare people because it seems to be governmental control in the same manner. That is objectionable. The use of the tests to differentiate among the winners and losers is inadequate and wrong-minded. But, the privatization and charter movement that excludes that oversight is insidious because it is like a stealth disease that is creeping over this country as more and more people have only part time or low paying jobs simply so the already wealthy can line their pockets because they are the “risk takers”.
I don’t want that “model” for schools. It will inhibit students’ abilities to think, to create, or to have hope. The charter school issue is one aspect of this problem. The CC and testing are the other aspects.
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It is interesting that you understand my pointing to DIFFERENT APPROACHES to education like Montessori or Waldorf as me talking about private schools (capitals for emphasis). Public schools might well take these approaches to education, but do not, so I can understand your confusion. The interesting question is why public schools do not take these approaches to education.
I agree that those who prefer those types of education AND CAN AFFORD THEM might well go to private schools. My concern is for those whose students might benefit from a different approach to education and can not afford the tuition. If you are concerned about people being “shut out”, why no concern about students being unable to take advantage of different approaches to education?
When you say “prevent the demise of public education” do you identify public education with traditionally zoned public schools where all and only the students living in an area defined by the local school board can attend a school? That seems inconsistent with the condemnation of a top down approach to education. From the students point of view, what is more top down than being told which school they must attend? Why, from a families point of view, is being told which textbook to use by your state government less top down than being told which textbook to use by the federal government? I trust the federal government much more than my state school board: if the state school board had its way they would remove much science from science classes with the hearty approval of a majority of the voting citizens in my state.
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But the real point here is that the public has very public, legal ways of fighting back when a state goes off the rails with its science curriculum and banishes teaching evolution or insists on inserting “creationism” or “intelligent design” into the science classroom (by the way, I have no beef with putting conversations about that into social studies class, as it reflects current events; taking up time in science class with utter nonsense and pseudo-science, however, is really absurd.
I’ve yet to see a state successfully impose that stuff on the public for very long. It might be a lot harder to fight it at the federal level. But that’s really not the issue. The issue is fighting the federal government AND the corporations and billionaires behind CCSSI. Or isn’t that crystal clear? And furthermore, I personally have relatively few objections to the specific content in the Common Core, per se. Some of it is badly written. Some of it is developmentally inappropriate. Some of the ideas about literacy education are flat out stupid. The overall scope of the mathematics still preserves the same basic stupidity that has been in every set of math standards, in practice if not in theory, for decade upon decade: it’s all about getting the top and near-top kids over calculus mountain or at least to its foothills upon graduation. It’s as if the 20th century never happened, the computer age is a myth, and hence discrete mathematics has no place in K-12 education. It’s difficult for me to comprehend the justification for that continued omission other than tradition and stubborn blindness to the power, beauty, and inherent appeal to kids of discrete math.
Nonetheless, my issues with the Common Core are such that if someone handed me a note signed by God, Obama, 50 governors, 100 senators, and all the state superintendents of public instruction stating, “Go ahead, Michael: you write our standards,” I’d refuse. Not because it’s an impossible job, but because it’s a job that shouldn’t be done, particularly not as part of a billionaire/corporate takeover in which first we destroy public schools through insane misuse of testing, the railroad a new set of standards through implemented all at once instead of one grade at a time for thirteen years, and then along the way we shut public schools and give control to the wealthy, private interests that have been drooling for decades to get their claws around the throats and purse strings of education.
You think it would be hard to get a state to change education policy? Imagine trying to get Pepsi and Coke to let schools teach about the impact of sugar on children’s teeth. Or Koch Bros. to let schools teach about air pollution, global warming, the impact of strip mining, fracking, and other wonderful benefits of Koch Industries.
All that said: yes, public education needs to be shaken up. It always has needed to be. We need more John Gattos, Deb Meiers, Sudbury Valley Schools, etc., and fewer lock-step factories modelled on 19th Prussian military training. But that fight isn’t going to be won by capitulating to corporatism or a federal takeover of schools.
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What if changing education was as easy as getting Coke to change New Coke or Microsoft to drop IE5? Giving parents choices might have the same impact on what schools do.
It is true that federal courts might well order public schools in my state to do various things, but that is certainly a top down approach that poster Deb dislikes. When should the federal government trump the wishes of the state or local majority?
The basic problem is that public education is essentially a hierarchical organization. If the folks at the top of the hierarchy do things that you approve, you are fine with it. If the folks do something you disapprove of, folks here argue that you should fight to change the leadership. That might work in the short run, but there is always another bad leader heading down the pike. Why not think about reducing the hierarchy by allowing students and their families to make decisions rather than the leaders of the hierarchy?
This is not an argument against government having a role in regulating education, it is a plea to allow teachers and schools the freedom to create the kind of education that works well for some students and those students to find the the schools that work well for them. Regulation is very important: I am about to head out and eat at a restaurant tonight and I am happy that there are strong health and safety regulations that are vigorously enforced. I am also happy, however, that there is no regulation requiring that all restaurants serve Italian food. If there were such a regulation, we might well think that French or Korean food is something that can only be prepared in a home.
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Gee, @te, I didn’t realize it was easy to get Coke to make a product decision, but even if it is, I’m pretty sure that once Coke owns public education (and I’m not being QUITE as literal as that), school curricula are likely to change to reflect the interests of management/ownership. And as bad as it might be to have stupid people in government making top down decisions about education policy (national, state, or perhaps even local), it’s way, way worse to have a tiny group of billionaires doing it. I’m not happy with the idea of the feds dictating curriculum, frameworks, etc. (and your analysis of how people respond when they’re happy with the decisions made at the top of the chain don’t apply to me, as I’ve said repeatedly. I wouldn’t be happy with this structure if *I* were allowed to make all the calls.
I may not be the only person in this fight with that degree of integrity, but I do believe that some of the outspoken critics of CCSS on the Right would be all for it IF they were given full power to determine what goes in the standards. I know it because they’ve been VERY content with top-down dictatorship of state standards precisely when THEY or their closest allies were given full say in what was in those standards. Check California’s math framework before and after 1997 for THE classic proof of what I’m talking about, along with the Fordham “report card” on state math standards after 1997.
So at this point, I don’t completely trust anyone who hasn’t come to the realization that any version of the Common Core is going to be wrong. But everyone evolves at his/her own pace, and I write people off only when I see no chance that they will eventually get it.
Now as far as what you’re talking about, I’m not quite sure what it is you want. Given that we’re not about to return to the days of the Articles of Confederation (though I’d be in line to vote for that if it ever comes up), I’m not sure how you imagine breaking things down further than state control of public education, though again, I’d be in favor of finding a way to do that.
Except (and this is an ENORMOUS except) I can’t put time or energy into doing that given the inequity that runs through this country, given the willingness of the haves to turn their backs on the have-nots, given the racism and classism that informs every move to marginalize poor people and people of color and to preserve a system that is rigged against such people before they’re born.
So I feel like it is still incumbent on the American people to pull together as a people, probably in ways we haven’t tried since the end of the Second World War, to make things more fair, more balanced, more just, more humane, for all our citizens and then, if we have the courage, for those in the rest of the world willing to join the effort.
Breaking everything down into little communities has its appeal. It might even ultimately prove to be the right way to get the bigger job done. But until I hear enough people recognizing that the big job exists and MUST be done, I’m going to hang in working with folks who see the task as wider-reaching. Not telling anyone else what to do.
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We seem to have gone far from the original posting.
I found it very interesting that poster Deb identified my talking about different approaches to education as talking about private school education. Why do only the relatively wealthy get access to these different approaches? It seems likely that there is something forcing a standardization of public school education that predates any of the current efforts to change public education.
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I think that quite possibly the thing that binds the methods is the “need” to compare, quantify, regulate, assure that some kind of a percentage, grade, or rating will be uniformly used and distributed. It is as if there is no other way in some people’s (teachers’, too) minds to allow student growth to just happen in a sequential fashion without attaching a score to it. I have always been a good student with good scores and no problems getting into college and making the grade. But, that is due to being able to follow the rules, understanding the questions, and give them what they wanted.
However, I have always maintained that there is so much more to learn, that the kids can take teachers to places they hadn’t yet considered, that learning can be fun and fulfilling. Yet, we have always used tests and grades to “prove” we were actually teaching the kids something and curricula to guide our way in selecting topics and objectives. I rather liked using rubrics but you would have though that Hades had frozen over with so many of the teachers in our school. They couldn’t “understand” how they could prove that the kids were doing well unless they were compared via a grade with other students. I prefer that the kids are competing with themselves to learn as much as they can in areas of interest.
One year I had a girl who only responded to cats. Everything was “cats” to her. So, rather than letting her write nothing or learn little, I told her to put just about every writing assignment into a cat mode. Guess what? She finally “got it” and emerged from her cat obsession.
What seems to be missing from the CC is the realization of the steps, the time, the developmental stages that children go through, but not at the same moment or same time. I love to see the “light bulbs” come on. It doesn’t happen all at once, but when it does a threshold is crossed, individually, happily by the child learning at his or her own pace. Yet, some teachers are stuck on assigning grades, saying grades are the only motivator. For some kids that may be the case, but it is as if parents want that grade card to tell them that their kid is better than someone else’s kid. I think all this constantly competitive culture does is to create stress, frustration, defeatism, and hopelessness for students, teachers and districts. I happen to think the whole idea is rather absurd.
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Interesting how this has evolved. I did not think I was posting about the common core. The household mathematician in my house took a look at the math standards and thought them reasonable, commenting that the eighth grade standards were ambitious. That is as close to evaluating them as I have been.
Perhaps we could return to your original comment, identifying the more specialized approaches to education as what private schools do. Is there a reason that these approaches are only suitable for students from relatively wealthy families?
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I would say, “No.” But, I was trying to allude to the fact that, traditionally, public schools have stuck to one way of grading and that informs their decisions to teach in the manner that they do. Also, with 30+ students in a class, individualization and rubrics can become difficult to manage. Alternative ANYTHING is hard to corral into some kind of specific quantitative comparison. I don’t think those school “should be” only for the “wealthy” but the fact that they tend to have smaller class sizes and that they don’t follow the traditional model of teaching and grading, they have not bee inserted into the realm of the typical school district.
I can’t answer your question further.
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I do agree that there is a remarkable uniformity in public schools that is not present in private schools, but I don’t thin that class size is the most important factor. If it were we would see diversity in educational approaches in the many small public schools and classes in the system.
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Very doubtful. The reason class sizes aren’t small is that the public doesn’t want to pay for more teachers. Also, the buildings are designed to accommodate 24 kids per classroom (yet in Ohio and elsewhere that isn’t followed). If the district is short on money, they cut teachers (attrition or no new hires) in order to save money. Class sizes increase. No, in every instance having a small class isn’t “necessary” but it is beneficial for those needing extra attention, either because of a learning difficulty or because of a demand for enrichment. One person cannot individually serve 30 people as well as 15. The tech courses enter the scene. For those who are self-directed and self-motivated, they may be a great option. But, for those who need intervention, there are limited and varied outcomes.
Nothing necessarily works for everyone. But, when dealing with large numbers of students, the management of the environment seems to demand some kind of unified approach, whether it is “best” or not. For decades, parents who could afford to help students at home or to provide enriching experiences have done so. Economics rules the day.
If and until our society puts value in and money into providing enough teachers and enough rooms to give students the opportunity to experience many options, it will not happen. These tech “advancements” are supplanting the use of human teachers. This creates less employment. This creates less opportunity to show students the love and empathy needed to bring so many people along.
Since so many people in our society are banding together to avoid “socialism” because they don’t understand or believe in the “common good” our society is becoming less and less able to accept any public service. If there isn’t a profit behind it, there is seemly “no use in wasting their time”. I just think a line needs to be drawn here, but as in the banking industry, calling a service a financial product, we are being moved towards education as a product, not a service. That eliminates the “middle man” … the teacher. So, can we replace the complete package of teaching with the incomplete, sterile and non-connected bits and pieces provided by those who don’t understand kids and don’t even want to? Will we be satisfied with self-centered, techno-driven fact regurgitation? I don’t know. But, luckily, I will be long gone before this whole mess collapses. Thank God.
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The median size high school in my state has fewer than 250 students. If there is anything like a normal set of class offerings, the class size must be relatively small, don’t you agree? If class size was the important factor, shouldn’t we see a plethora of non standard approaches to education in those public schools?
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Money, training, interest, space. Nor sure what this is heading, nor its relevance to the CC implementation.
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This thread is not really about the common core, but about heterodox posters on this blog and welcoming different points of view. We got on to a discussion of different approaches to education when you identified these as types of private schools rather than approaches to education. A very understandable, and interesting, misunderstanding of the way I was using those terms.
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TE, you are welcome on this blog. You have never been censored. A lot of readers respond negatively to your comments because you write about schooling as an economic abstraction, while teachers write from their daily experience interacting with real children and real problems. Also, you seem to think you abstract analysis counts for more than teachers’ daily knowledge. And you don’t ever listen. That’s a problem, especially for the teachers who respond to you. You don’t seem to hear what they say.
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Dr. Ravitch, you might remember that you have deleted some of my posts.
I am not sure where I have discounted anyone’s experiences, student, teacher, parent, or administrator. The usual criticism of my posts is that they are self serving (of course no explanation of how that is possible), that I have not changed my positions on some aspects of k-12 education, or that I ask uncomfortable questions about the arguments presented here.
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You have been told my many that you don’t listen or read carefully. You nitpick and skip over what doesn’t suit you. We all have children. You mention your sons constantly. When it’s not going your way, you usually deflect by asking question after question. Many give up. I usually skim now.
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Linda,
Good to hear from you as always. I certainly listen ( or actually read), but I do often disagree, depending on the point that is being argued. I have found that criticism of ones own positions are often seen as nitpicking, while criticisms of positions that one disagrees with point to huge logical fallacies. Have you found that to be the case?
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Snore.
After having offered several comments that reflected some thoughts I’ve developed after 40 years in education (not to mention the 13 I spent as a K-12 student), and including the past 18 in which my son was a K-12 student), I expected a little bit more direct play from @TE, but have found, like others, that he seems uninterested in discussing anyone else’s ideas and simply answers questions with questions or just segues however awkwardly, to his own interests. My last lengthy comment was an attempt to bring the conversation to a place that went beyond the “public schools are bad v. public schools are good” dichotomy, but that, too, went nowhere.
Some folks might conclude that the point of @TE’s participation is to prevent conversation among people with different points of view, rather than to promote it. And I am rapidly finding myself among such people.
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KTA,
I understand this is not the point of your post or this discussion…
but
It was Margo Channing…(Bette Davis) who warned us about the bumpy ride.
(One of my vary favorite films).
Of course the point of your post…agree!
And I never miss your posts, either (Same with 2old and chemtchr!)
XO,
Ang
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Ang: thank you for the correction.
🙂
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John P. Loonam,
Your letter is confiding . I don’t think you read the Merrow post. I don’t know what you are asking me to do. Sorry.
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No apology necessary. I am not asking you to do anything. Have a nice evening. Thank you for “The Death and Life of the Great American School System.” I look forward to “Reign of Error.”
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Merrow is scared to be labeled, as he thinks it will be the death of his career. Instead of doing the right thing, he made a political move to appease those who will continue to give him voice.
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Maybe his is a reaction to being funded by the corporate mindset. Diane is an independent thinker.
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Yes. And perhaps those who fund Merrow were not happy with the success of Ravitch’s latest book.
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So what’s the matter with being a leftist? I would prefer the liberal/progressive label but I’ll accept leftist and proudly so. It is appalling and disgusting that Merrow draws a false equivalency between a vicious demagogue and political hack like Ted Cruz to a respected scholar and educational historian like Diane Ravitch. There is no comparison between these two people, they are from different worlds and have totally different values. Diane values scrupulous research, facts and truth while Cruz is a propagandist and demonizer of anyone with whom he disagrees. What the hell is Merrow trying to pull off here? Paul Krugman exposes this false equivalency crap that goes on in the media; he says that it amounts to journalists saying that opinions differ on the shape of the earth. Oh yeah, there’s some kind of equivalence between the flat earth people and those who say that the earth is a sphere. Geez, I have lost all respect for Merrow.
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Good for you!!!!!!
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I have defended Merrow as he is a working journalist in a crazy world. But, that he would say that is not very good. What a twisted situation this is. Diane is right, she is 75, retired, does not have to do this, yes, she used to be on the other side but let us praise those who see the light, she could sit at home and kick back, she is driven by something else, so Merrow what is your personal problem? How can you compare sanity with insanity? Oxymoron to me sir. Even though I understand your position as a working journalist you did not have to say that to keep your job, or did you?
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It just looks to me like John didn’t hold himself to a certain standard of excellence…seeking a way to hit a nerve with people to get more people to read his work. It’s shameful.
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You are my hero Dr. Ravitch. Your new book is awesome. Your writings articulate clearly what I see happening. I am 27 year public teacher, local union President, active in my state and national union, and believe passionately in Public Education. Please keep up the fight. I use your words, thoughts, posts to fuel my local members to fight. Thank you, Thank you, and Thank you. Sincerely
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This is what I wrote to Merrow:
Do you know what makes a real hero? Someone who stands up for what is right. That, in my view, represents Diane Ravitch. Her view is neither left nor right. It is based on reason. I would bet you have read not one word of her book. Her conclusions are based on documentation. All her opinions are evidenced based. However, from her opinions does come an ideology–to preserve a democratic institution that binds together our society to a common culture and heritage. She wants to preserve an institution that will cultivate informed citizens that will make political decisions also based on reason. She does not use platitudes and word games, such as the likes of Ted Cruz and other real ideologues. I respect her greatly. I am just a lowly public school teacher who writes a blog from the heart. However, when I write her with some information or send her a link to my blog, she takes the time to send me a short note with some insight. I will bet you will not respond to what I am writing right here. In addition, if I would write to the likes of Duncan, Gates or Broad, I would expect nothing less than to be ignored. Why don’t you tell us what you really believe in and why you feel Doctor Ravitch is a leftist–whatever that means?
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Diane,
I read Morrow’s post, and I interpret his message as you have lost the ability to see, convey and appreciate the “messy middle”. Albeit different issues, and different sides, but still just like Cruz. I would agree with that assessment. By the way, I strongly disagree with, and do not support, Cruz.
There is a lot of gray in the world, including in public education. I find much of your writing well-informed. And interesting. But in my opinion, your pendulum has swung way too far out of the gray, messy middle, and you don’t seem to try to understand (or if you do understand, communicate) why others, who are often well-intended but just not philosophically aligned with your current stances, might have positions different than yours. The way I read your blogs is that you assume that they are all evil corporatists, privatization advocates, don’t care about families or kids, or are just plain uninformed or have malice in their hearts.
Compelling to your fans. But not necessarily effective if you really are trying to influence reasonable folks who live in the messy middle.
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Mark, this isn’t actually about you folks who have some kind of stake in the corporate reform adventure, but don’t see yourselves as completely aligned with it. It’s up to you to be influenced or not, but I don’t think anybody is catering specifically to you, you know? I’d be glad to talk you over, or you can just stay right where you are. Honestly, nobody minds.
“Reign of Error” is written to the American people. They are paying attention, and they get it. The political landscape has changed dramatically in the past few months, and the “middle” might not be where you thought it was. If you find yourself without any corporatists and privatizers around you anymore, you’ll be fine.
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Thanks for your comments, Mark. I don’t shout from the rooftops. Unlike Senator Cruz, I am not an elected official with access to the national media. I am, first and foremost, a scholar. Whatever I write is based on evidence and I try to supply documentation. Does Senator Cruz? I occasionally express an opinion, but scholars do that when they believe they have assembled evidence. If you find what I have to say useful, you read my blog and my books. If you don’t, then you look elsewhere. Is that extreme?
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Mark W
Please tell us all about this “messy middle”.
Is this where students are tested to despair?
Where neither parents nor students nor teachers are allowed to look at these tests despite the high stakes of these test for all?
Is the messy middle a place where corporations rake in record profit dishing up highly flawed tests?
Perhaps you are referring to a place where tax dollars are siphoned off at every level by endless consultants each peddling the newest miracle cure for the failing schools?
Please share.
We want to know.
Really.
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Who could have predicted that John Merrow would be adding a new word to Diane Ravitch’s glossary in The Language Police, hero, because that word is “routinely modified”. Apparently, there is only one kind of hero and that kind needs no explanation. That’s a word which should stand on its own. He prefers that “role model” be used instead, too. I’d suggest not adding adjectives to that for clarification either, because what synonym will we have left if that is banished by the language police, too? Paragon? Rather antiquated. Idol? Too extreme.
I have not had many people in my life who I’ve unquestionably considered to be role models, except my Mom, a civil rights worker who fought tirelessly throughout her life, in many arenas, to ensure equality for every man, woman and child. This late in my life, I would add Diane Ravitch, for the same reason. But both are also heroes to me, which is self-explanatory. No modifiers necessary, Mr. Language Policeman. I have no qualifiers for them, just a lot of gratitude for their commitment to social justice and for lighting the path.
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Prof W: succinct, relevant, moving.
Thank you for your comments.
🙂
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When in a war, the oppressed look for leaders to free them from their shackles and fight the tyranny that terrorizes them. That is what Diane is doing for many teachers, parents, and administrators. Merrow is trying to minimize this war and trivialize the leading voice of the oppressed. Thanks to Diane’s blog and book, the American people are waking up to this corporate/political nightmare. Thanks Prof W; Diane is both a hero and a role model.
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I believe John Merrow’s comparison of Diane Ravitch to Ted Cruz to be insulting. Why? I believe that Diane is seeking to lead, to show the way, to expose, to criticize what is not in the best interest of children. I do not believe that she is grand-standing or trying to gain fame by standing up against the changes that claim to be for educational improvement when, in fact, they are changes that undermine the educational system as a whole. She does offers solutions and varying viewpoints to the readers, who don’t always agree with her or each other. On the other hand Ted Cruz is a self-important, promoter of Ted (not ideas), with no solutions offered on any level, just a drum-beating shill for the Tea Party. There is a difference. Diane writes a blog and a book. Others, seeking solutions, began to follow and continue to follow. She isn’t seeking notoriety or fame. She is seeking a correction in a course that is taking an incorrect direction. Ted Cruz is offering criticisms, getting noticed (for free thanks to CSPAN), and trying to elevate himself to national notice by the rest of the Tea Party. He is running for President.
I have never once thought that Diane was supporting ineffective teachers or teaching. She presents examples and research that cause us, if we so choose, to research and read more about what it happening to our educational process in the United States. I don’t believe she sees herself as or seeks to be a “hero” of any sort. If some have called her that, it would be they who are responsible for the term. I, myself, don’t generally succumb to having heroes. We are all human and can fall off of a pedestal, especially one that we don’t seek in the first place.
I generally agree with Diane, as do many who post on this blog. At times, I have felt that there was a bit of heavy-handed criticism about some people’s actions … until I read what that person had said or done. I do know that Diane has posted and then retracted some of her initial reactions to others’ opinions. She doesn’t stand on her blog posts as being perfectly crafted, but typed from the heart, wherever she is, standing, sitting, on an elevator, etc. There are so many responses, and so many repetitions by people who like to make lists and number them or who want to change the course or direction of the discussion. Yet, she seems to find time to read all of this and respond when she sees fit.
This is not the behavior of an extreme person. Is she fervent? Yes. Is she seeking justice for children, families, and the educational process? Yes.
I would suppose that the “leftist” remarks stem from the fact that she believes that helping those children of poverty to have basic essentials, not simply a regimented manner of force-fed “lessons” of rigorous content.
For many, trying to solve the problems of society via the educational process boils down to “taking” from the “haves” and “giving” it to the “have nots”. For many, the word “sharing” isn’t a concept that can be accepted, since they are so wrapped up in their own lives, their own children’s lives, that they can’t bear to have their preciously “hard-earned” dollars spent to help anyone else.
I wish the terms “left” and “right” were abolished. They have come to be used derisively by both sides. It is bizarre to me that what was once “the messy middle” is now “leftist”. That is only because the views of the Tea Party have moved and skewed thought into narrow channels of thought.
Keep up the good work, Diane. (As for those saying that they have been attacked or side-lined by others who post, maybe they need to look at their own words. Are they trying to get at a common good or promote their own view or get revenge for feeling slighted by “the system” which is not the same all over the U.S.?) The continuing nudging and insisting that the conversation address the merits of certain private and charter for profit schools is counter-productive to the purpose of this blog, I believe. Most of us provide anecdotes to contribute to what is happening that is wrong with the system and wrong with the imposed testing and Common Core, not just to be cantankerous, but to seek solutions and to avoid having yet another public service fall into the hands of those who either want to mold schools in the image of one viewpoint or to make a profit.
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I love what Anthony Cody said, “The real people working in the “messy middle” are the teachers and students who have been the subjects of this unprecedented series of experiments in market based reforms. Teachers who have seen the standards and tests change on an almost yearly basis, and who now must be evaluated based on test scores. Students who are being tested to death, and face ever more difficult tests under the misguided notion that somehow failing more of them will enable more of them to succeed.”
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Courage Dr. Ravitch! You have assumed the role of the young child in The Emperor’s New Clothes. I fear though that most Americans including those of us in education don’t yet even realize that the promises being made by the corporate reformers / privatizers ( Privateers, or is that too close to pirates? Perhaps Piratizers . . . ) are like the emperor’s new suit. With your experience and insight, you have taken on the role of the child who cries out ”
“But he isn’t wearing anything at all!”
Whether the rest of the community can find the courage and insight to acknowledge the reality that you see and have shared with us remains to be seen. You have stepped out in front of very powerful force$ that will stop at nothing in their attempt to “reform” education in their fiscal image. Rather than the child in The Emperor’s New Clothes” though, the image is that of the student in Tiananmen Square standing in front of the Chinese tanks back in 1989. I suspect that the while the danger is somewhat more of a personal and intellectual one, the risks are just as real.
I hope that you can find courage to continue to warn us of the nakedness of so many of the reformers promises so that we too may see the threat for what it is. In the process, we adults may be battered by the reformers words and threats, but in the end it is the children who will suffer for our collective foolishness if not left unchecked.
One last thought. I am reminded of a line from Alice Miller’s “For Their Own Good: The Hidden Roots of Child Abuse” that for me describe the position you find yourself in.
“. . . But those who have spontaneous feelings can only be themselves.
They have no choice if they want to remain true to themselves.
Rejection, ostracism, loss of love, and name calling will not fail to affect them;
they will suffer as a result and will dread them,
but once they have found their authentic self they will not want to lose it.
And when they sense that something is being demanded of them
to which their whole being says no, they cannot do it.
They simply cannot.”
Best wishes and thank you on behalf of those of us in education, especially the children, for your courage to step out in front of the naked Emperor’s tanks.
George Eller
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John Merrow is just wrong Diane, you are a true hero of education! I doubt if he even read your books.
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If Ravitch is on the ‘left’, what am I doing here daily?
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