This is a disturbing interview with Nevada’s State Superintendent of Instruction James Guthrie.
Nevada is 18th in the nation in teachers’ salaries but Guthrie seems to think they are overpaid.
He is certain there are large numbers of bad teachers in the state.
He has the governor’s ear. In his State of the State address, Governor Sandoval made clear that he wants more of those TFA to come to Nevada and raise scores and close the achievement gap.
In his State of the State, the governor said,
“”One of the most successful programs in the country today is Teach for
America – a unique corps of brilliant young leaders from America’s top
universities, who give their time and talent as teachers in schools
that need them most.
“These teachers help spur innovation and creativity in instruction that
makes the entire system better.
“Teach for America has helped make a difference in the lives of
hundreds of Nevada’s students.
“But we can do more.
I am proposing a new investment in Teach for America to help recruit,
train, develop, and place top teacher and leadership talent in
Nevada.”
So instead of investing in career educators who plan to stay with their schools for the long run, the governor plans to invest in 22-year-old college graduates who have 5 weeks of training and commit to stay for only two years.
Dumb thinking. Poor planning.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Heard on CNBC the tail end of a conversation that seemed to imply Duncan is leaving.
I’ve heard that rumor, too. Please, God, don’t replace this
“Graduate high school students in their Sophomore year, that way the high drop out rate of Sophomores will be eliminated;especially since the Junior/Seniors years are nothing but a bunch of study hall!” and in his place put Sen. Bennett who single-evenhandedly
brought economic ruin and “older/experienced teacher destruction to reek havoc on Denver Public Schools! If that happens, I don’t know which one of these NON-PROFESSIONAL “EDUCATORS” will cause greater ruin to our public schools and academic national standing!
Diane — poor planning only if the end goal is actually the benefit of the students. For another goal, it might be great planning.
Michael — That would be great news, depending on who Duncan’s replacement was. If DFER and Broad were able to influence Obama’s appointee to the post once, they’ll likely be able to do so again.
From the first link you’ve provided:
“Q: Is an evaluation system, based on test results, needed in Nevada?
A: It is badly needed. There are approximately 23,000 teachers in Nevada. I’m going to guess 2,000 or 2,500 are very good. I don’t know the exact number. Some number is quite ineffective. I don’t know how many or who they are. In any rational system, we would take our most effective teachers and put them where we need them the most.
But right now, we don’t know who they are.”
Sickening, unscientific answer to a fabricated problem.
This would be akin to guessing the acceleration due to gravity here on earth is 1 m/s squared, not realizing it wasn’t, and then implementing steps to curtail it.
What an IDIOT.
“Dumb thinking. Poor planning.” Amen.
Any way you put it, “Dumb thinking. Poor planning.”
We are disposable, no value, just place markers waiting for our replacements, who will soon be waiting for theirs. Short shelf life – The teachers in the school go round and round…
From their lips to God’s ears! My only fear is that he would be replaced by Sen. Bennett who single-handle put the skids to the economical, educational and teacher
morale of Denver Public Schools during his reign as Superintendent. His “business plan” has caused havoc in all those areas. Noteworthy. he is also a huge advocate for TFA innocents who have admirable intentions but lack the skills, knowledge and training to be effective educators. These disillusioned “teachers” leave en mass when their contracts are up, leaving openings for future TFA’ers and baby teachers, who will doubtlessly meet the same fate. Both groups, Superintendents and administrators stated “value” are: low pay, low benefits and produces harsh, unrealistic demands by their respective district leaders and poor educational results.
The ill-deserved accolades mentioned by Nevada’s State Superintendent runs counter to the actual facts, test scores and accomplishments of these two groups across the country. Strange how this man can muster such superlatives on these groups while never mentioning teachers with degrees and vast experience whose efforts go unrecognized! Public education is a model, unfortunately for; bloated scores, statistics, disingenuous professions of fairness in regards to teachers issues, and
the same indifference to community educational wishes. To me, they exhibit a mockery of the models of justice, fairness and a sincere commitment to educational excellence.
Could they, along with Rhee and her cohorts be compared to wolves in sheep’s clothing?
I think that there should be a standard certification to teach. All teachers should be held to a certain amount of months of student teaching. Why bend the rules for the TFA? If the overall requirements are too rigorous, so be it, lower them.
Also, I think the career teacher is an antiquated model from olden days. There should be fair economic options to teach for 10 years, 20 years, or 40 years. Meaning, a 10 year teacher would be paid the same as a 40 year teacher if they are doing the same job.
Why does a two year teacher duration make any sense from an economic perspective? Why don’t the bean counter studies see this model of an incredible waste of resources, in terms of return on investment for training. It wouldn’t hold up, if all teachers are held to the same fair and equitable amount of training and certification.
Nevada could hire highly qualified young people to be instructional aides or tutors for two years. Just dial in the qualifications and the salary to the right levels and let the free market work its magic.
Another business plan – not education policy.
This has become the (hopefully unintended) consequence of TFA.
It has a become a scab organization to allow this type of political maneuvering and make teaching a “temp” job for people moving elsewhere than a classroom as a career.
What it does is lower the average teaching salary and decrease radically the need to pay out pensions because <5% of these "temps" will work long enough to vest in a pension.
Please pass these posts on to those Nevada policy makers:
THE INCONVENIENT TRUTHS ABOUT TFA
TFA TEACHERS: BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE
http://dcgmentor.com/?p=99
“Do I want children to be well behaved and honest and courteous? Absoloutly, but first, I want them to read.” Being an early childhood educater I don’t have any words to say about that statement.
A friend of mind is a social worker. She is 24 and just beginning her career. She is so grateful for the experienced social workers in her office. They give her invaluable advice, encouragement, and support. As a result, she is thriving in a very challenging and stressful field and intends to make a long career of social work. Experienced social workers are not looked upon as a “liability”. There are no “Social Work For America” individuals with fast-track training to replace these seasoned professionals.
It makes no sense that experienced teachers are being marginalized. When I was a new teacher, experienced teachers helped me a great deal. As a result of their fine example, I have been happy to assist many new teachers. This arbitrary bashing of experienced teachers is one of the worst “reform” tactics ever conceived.
It only makes sense if you are of the mentality that experienced people cost more money in salaries and benefits.
That is what this is all about. These “reformers” couldn’t care less about kids.
That’s right. If we all cost the same, there’d be a huge market for experienced teachers. Everyone knows that the experience is valuable in countless ways, they just don’t want to pay for it.
If we follow this path, our options, essentially, are to leave the profession or carry on as temp-worker status nobodies with jobs that everyone believes could be done by anybody. One other option might be to start preaching voodoo as a consultant or coach, but we probably have too much experience for that.
There’s always been a level of absurdity to inner-city teaching, but I was floored after returning from 4 years teaching overseas. The whole world turned upside down. 18 months later, I still can’t believe how bad it’s gotten. No matter what level of success we have, the whip just comes down harder and the path gets narrower.
There’s always been miracle education cures and other nonsense, but now, it’s put into place by thugs who use intimidation and demand almost cult-like loyalty to ridiculous repackaging of bullshit that didn’t fly 10 or 20 or 30 years ago. Conformity in teachers and students is the goal–they very opposite of what the goal should be.
I switched from a core subject to an elective subject because I was starting to dislike my profession. Now, I fly under the radar and can do it pretty much how I want and contrary to what our overlords believe, the level of learning gets a huge bounce when you take off the shackles and stop micromanaging.
It’s all great until they eliminate my subject. The only upside that I can see right now is that when we start teaching only math and literacy, I’ll be qualified to beg for a job.
imagine that your donating half of your salary to your workplace as charity and be happy with
Thanks for posting the Gov’s speech. Other investments he suggested are in all day kg and in more pre-school for low income students. I assume most of you would approve of such investments. I think there is considerable research about the value of strong pre-school programs for students from low income families.
On TFA – recognizing that it is “red meat” for Dr. Ravitch and many of you, I’ve encountered some great TFA folks (and some not so great). A number of the folks I work with have continued to stay in education as teachers or in other roles after their 2 years is up. But I do think the job of teaching has become increasingly frustrating for various reasons, and some colleges of ed don’t expose prospective teachers to places that are “beating the odds”. So it’s hard for some new teachers to know how to reach kids. I don’t agree that an investment in TFA is a put down of existing teachers.
Most are teach for a while resume boosters. Some are scabs. The new mantra is we are leading a revolution by developing leaders.
If White, Rhee and Anderson are the examples of their leaders…no thanks. They are NOT educational leaders. They are frauds.
You can have them Joe…take them all.
Yes, it is a putdown. They are nothing but scabs who are hired to undermine the real teaching force.
Nevada’s teachers are just about done for. I worked down there, so I know how bad it is. It will get much, much worse.
Guthrie has ties to G.W. Bush, and what experience he has in K-12 was many, many years ago.
He also lied about teachers having “lifetime jobs.” He should talk to a few of us teachers who had “lifetime jobs” but who were fired over nothing.
Google James Guthrie and Pearson, George Bush Institute, Peabody Center for Education Policy at Vanderbilt University, National Center for School Choice, just as a beginning. Came to Nevada with an open mind – we think not.
But par for course these days. . .
I can’t wait to see what mental gymnastics they will go through when the TFA wonder workers fail to close the gap. As I sit here the news is heralding the gift of books to one of our schools, Rundle Elementary in Las Vegas, because most of the students have no books at home to read, according to the principal. I also note that the Las Vegas review journal is peeved with my superintendent, Dwight Jones, because he will not release the test scores of the greatly ballyhooed turnaround schools the press profiled religiously over the last year. I am sure even a couple of points gained would have been publicly paraded all over the place. I am betting scores were no better, or even worse than before. Millions were invested in upgraded sports programs, cleaning and replacing toilets, doing maintenance that should have been done anyway. They also replaced the principals and half the staff. They brought in the TFA wonder kids. I think they will redefine success rather than admit failure. I have 16 years in with the Clark County School District, making it to twenty looks like a casino bet at this time. They will have to fire me though, I won’t just go away. I will be publicly asking them as many embarrassing questions about their damaging policies at every opportunity I get.
Isn’t it true that most of us would do our work for free if that’s the way society was structured? I LOVE teaching children – the joy it brings to me defies description. Instilling in them the pride in a job well done, praising them for their tenacity at problem solving, and celebrating their success both individually and as a learning community ALMOST make the rest of it worth the pain. Alas, the bureaucrats and data police and the reformers who seek to make a buck, do it cheap & move on are chasing the dedicated teachers to the brink of extinction. I am still learning, growing & honing my skills after 30 years. Tell me, please, what the TFA kids know that I do
not.
If you could just get the society to provide everyone with a comfortable living, then everyone could do what they really wanted and were good at. Away with this necessity to “make a living.” In with “do what one loves.”
Old Teacher ~ I’m right there with you. I started late in CCSD. In my 7th year. The 10-15 years I planned on doing, my “ride out” looks like a goal I may not reach. But like you, I will not go away and I will no longer be silent.
I tried that, too, with Washoe County, and they illegally fired me. The HR idiot, among other motives, didn’t think I was vested in PERS when he put my principal up to getting rid of me over what amounted to nothing. I was hoping to retire at 60, but instead I was involuntarily retired at 53 and still cannot get back on my feet financially. I had to move out of state even to survive and it has been a struggle.
The Governor of Nevada needs to research what is going on in the EAA in Detroit with all those great TFA teachers. Oh such success. The achievement gap is getting smaller as we read this blog. I know someone who said the TFA teachers, who had no clue about what they were doing, wouldn’t even go out into the hallways to help monitor students. I guess the Governor is bought out. Same playbook, second verse. It is quite dispicable to replace workers with cheap labor no matter where it happens.
Diane ~ Thank you for bringing NV to this blog. I am in my 7th year of teaching in Clark County School District, the 5th largest school district in the nation. Our super Dwight Jones and his cohort Pedro Martinez, Washoe County super, are Broad alums. Add Dr. Guthrie to that and well….enough said. We’re in trouble.
I opened your first link about Dr. Guthrie, but didn’t have the stomach to read it. Maybe it’s the 2 pieces of pizza I just ate, but I think it’s more the bad taste in my mouth I still have after reading this embarassing article by our esteemed Dr. Guthrie:
http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/a-dozen-empirically-verified-things-to-know-about-public-school-teachers-149408755.html
Mr. Jones has the media on his side. Teacher bashing in southern NV’s 2 newspapers are rampant. Teach for America arrivement is celebrated and announced, just like the next newest Cirque show:
http://www.lvrj.com/news/teach-for-america-backers-on-state-board-187570891.html
In this year’s election, my 2 choices for state board of ed were TFA’ers. There was no “lesser of two evils” to settle for.
Today’s news brings us the “eyeing” of 12 possible turn around schools. We’ll just ignore the fact that previous turn arounds have yet to succeed.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013/jan/25/school-district-eyes-12-schools-turnaround-efforts/
We have a tough fight facing us. Thank you again for the support.
Yes, thank you so much for including Nevada and our ridiculous superintendent in the discussion. Dr. Guthrie has spoken on NPR, written to our local newspaper and given speeches in which he claims high school students should take lecture-style classes in auditoriums like college because class sizes don’t matter and other ludicrous ideas. It is clear he has never taught high school and knows nothing about teaching in an urban area. I am so weary of his claims that our main worry is getting rid of “bad” teachers when our real concern should be retaining our experienced, quality teachers, reinstating funding for ELL, getting rid of ineffective tests from publishers who just want to make money and too many other budget-related problems in our state which was one of the hardest hit in the recession. Thank you so much for this blog, Diane.
Nevada is trying to outdistance Louisiana in the race to the bottom and beyond. The irony that they claim they can’t wait to change the status quo is a delicious spoonful of rat poison. FYI, most every TFA you talk to or hear from tells of how the veteran teachers helped them out when they had no clue. Teachers need to stop training their replacements. But they won’t because that would be even more harmful to the kids. TFA is a hostage taking terrorist organization.
I can’t quibble with your analogy, I used to be part of a military hostage rescue team. I think the public has Stockholm syndrome. I hope they recover soon! I liken TFA to a parasite, a tape worm in particular. They are in the dark as they grow, and when you see them in the open you are already sick.
The main problem is Nevada has always been underfunding its schools. This combined with the highest transient rate, and you have a ready made market for all of this privatization garbage.
Not that the school districts like Clark and Washoe were ever any good–there was lots of corruption and cronyism, but Guthrie threatens to outdo John White of Louisiana in the race to the bottom.
Maybe it’s just as well I was illegally canned almost five years ago. The culprits who did it will eventually get THEIRS.
I will add that Brian Sandoval isn’t fit to lick the bottom of the late governor Kenny Guinn’s shoes. That man really cared about education and teachers because he was one of them.
Agreed. He must be turning over in his grave. Rest in Peace Gov. Guinn.
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I miss Kenny Guinn. We really need to see if we can find a viable candidate to bear governor Sandoval. I have no idea who that would be right now, but there must be someone.
If Guinn had lived, he would have made a great secretary of education.
I wonder when the “tipping point” will occur when the privatizers will have won and public education will be no more.
I don’t see why people hate on TFA so badly? There are good veterans and bad veterans. There are very very few good rookies, and plenty of bad ones. No teacher I know ever brags that they knew what they were doing right away.
The important part of being a teacher (or any job) is to always have an attitude of “what can I improve?”. I have audited TFA conferences and lived with 3 of its members and as far I can tell, that is the exact message they preach.
I got a four year degree in Education with an A average but still left every TFA conference/conversation thinking, “Wow! I wish I had learned all that in real college.”
We (progressive teachers) rant online about a need for change and how many people are screwing up the world for us all over the country because of bad choices concerning education – and I’m one of them. So was the lady who founded TFA and I guarantee you that if you ask questions about teaching strategies, poverty statistics, Maslow’s hierarchy or anything else a teacher should know… TFA will know those answers.
Again, no one has ever learned to swim by reading about it, but they sure have read enough inspiring information to keep them in the water.
I’d like to see more posts/tweets on positive things, rather than “tearing down all the time.”
I think it would be helpful if people in TFA were not “tearing down” public schools and public schools teachers “all the time.”
It would also be helpful if TFA stopped claiming that its lightly trained teachers are superior to career educators. That’s tearing down people who have committed their life to educating children.
And it would be helpful if the leading graduates of TFA–Michelle Rhee, John White, and Kevin Huffman–were not leading the crusade for privatization.
There are a lot more interesting pieces on TFA.
Perhaps, the most fun is the “Why I hate TFA” post by Anna, who focused on the two years as counter-productive.
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/08/23/why-i-hate-teach-for-america/
“She even indulges in a bit of sarcasm:
The first three drop down tags at the top of the TFA website read, “What We Do,” “The Core Experience,” “After the Corps.” Teaching is not a career for this organization, it is an “experience.” You can write about it in your annual Christmas letter and show up your cousins who went straight to law school instead of deferring for two years to work in the inner city. You now have some “cred” when talking about why No Child Left Behind sucks. Oh, and, of course, you can put it on your resume.
And TFA will help you make that resume! Just check out the “After the Corps” section of their website. It’s chock full of career services and options of what you can do after you’ve gotten tired of “closing the education gap.” They even have partnerships with various employers such as Morgan Stanley, Deloitte, JP Morgan, and Lehman Brothers, all of which allow TFA members to defer their high paying jobs as management consultants and financial analysts to teach for two years in the trenches of underachieving schools.
Still not convinced? Listen to how much those two years of teaching forever changed this TFA alumnus:
Looking back, I’m so glad I chose to teach before embarking on this next phase of my career. I developed skills that empowered me to excel beyond my peers in business school: organization, effective time management, dexterity in communication and public speaking, and the ability to think on my feet. The responsibilities I shouldered in the classroom prepared me like nothing else could for the challenges of management, communication, and intense focus that characterize my current position, where I conduct industry research, create financial models, identify industry trends, and explain their implications.
-Scott, an analyst at Lehman Brothers
Isn’t that beautiful? Isn’t that what teaching is all about? Becoming a better financial analyst?
While other profiles can be seen at http://www.teachforamerica.org/why-teach-for-america/why-join/after-the-corps, Scott’s statement is no longer available. And who knows where he went after Lehman Brothers. Maybe he returned to teaching.
On how TFA was originally “a very different organization with a very different mission. The premise back then was that throughout the country there were many school districts that were desperate for teachers. I was told that in Houston many students would not get a regular teacher — instead, they’d have a rotating group of temporary substitutes. By joining TFA, I could be a stable presence for a group of kids who would otherwise be reminded every few days that nobody wants to teach them.
Gary Rubinstein, “What happened to my TFA?,” garyrubinstein blog, 21 May 2011 http://garyrubinstein.teachforus.org/2011/07/16/2011s-welcome-to-lead-for-america/
Joe Nathan calls TFA ‘red meat’ — but the problem is that TFA teachers are displacing professional teachers. Some of them are great, but I bet they would even be better if they had a year, as opposed to 5 weeks of training.
For how Teach for America and the Teaching Fellows programs, deny the value of having a highly-professionalized teaching force and “de-professionalize teaching by emphasizing talent over training.”
see Rachel Levy, “Teach For America: From Service Group to Industry,” All Thing Education blog, 28 May 2011; accessed July 2011 at http://allthingsedu.blogspot.com/2011/05/teach-for-america-from-service-group-to.html
I think that this conversation is, in essence, a distraction from the real mission that TFA is pursuing—which is creating an equitable educational playing field for all. It is not an attack on veteran teachers, but the creation of another pipeline of potential teachers into a profession that isn’t uniformly creating opportunity and results for all. This comes with an understanding that when we hire 5 teachers from a pool of 50 applicants, we will create a better team than when we pick the only five who showed up. Or worse yet, when we get only 4, and we have to settle for a rotation of subs for an entire year. Sadly, that is still a reality, even in districts like Denver Public Schools where achievement, enrollment, and graduation rates are rising and teachers are coming in from education programs, TFA, and other alternative routes, like Denver Teacher Residency.
I think the debate has gone askew because effective veteran teachers are running a smoke screen for less effective teachers. As a teacher, I’ve seen colleagues shine, and I’ve seen them fail. Veteran teachers must remember that good teaching and constant improvement IS and SHOULD BE a requirement for continuing as a teacher, and the fact that a colleague has become a friend does not guarantee they are doing what is best for kids. 25-45% of low-income students reaching proficiency are not the signs of success. Neither is the fact that most urban teachers wouldn’t trust their own kids to the schools they teach in.
Not everyone in Teach for America will stay. That is a sad fact. But many of them will, and in Denver, the list of Mile High Teachers, nominated by their schools as outstanding teachers in the district was filled with people I know as great TFA alums who have stayed in the classroom and are making a difference every day. Some will leave after two years, but many of those alums that leave take the fight to other sectors and higher levels of government and business. They bring the focus and the resources that are badly needed back into the profession they left.
Charter middle schools and high schools, as well as public schools in Denver run and staffed by TFA and other non-traditional alums are changing the opportunities available in our city. A KIPP or Denver School of Science and Technology school may not appeal to wealthy white parents already living in a well-staffed, well-resourced school, but it’s a welcome alternative to a school like Montbello High, where principal after principal has left or been fired because graduation rates remain low and violence is high.
Get a clue: hate the teachers who are not carrying their share of the burden, not simply someone carrying a particular label, TFA or otherwise.
This is not a war of between traditional and non-traditional educator preparation programs.
This is a war to replace the complacency and low expectations held for the children of low-income and minority families. We are and should be calling all teachers who will fight and carry the crusade to all corners of this country to replace the broken parts in this system, piece by piece.
Well said, sir.
Pardon my frankness, but just how does anyone equate this, quickie course with a four year intense college degree?? Are College educational grads the new target of excess in education?? PLEASE do not equate experienced, university deg-reed teacher in this false paradigm of replacing teachers as a war to eject, oops “replace the complacency and low expectations held for children of low-income and minority families” with these
TFAs and charters ESPECIALLY NOTIN DENVER, where I live and the facts of success with charters and TFA have been exposed for the fraudulent “success” they loudly assert!! I have lived, taught and know a cadre of teachers who have worked beside these TFA’ers and they are NOT superior, more dedicated than the experienced peers! The “broken parts in the system” are the road kill of teachers who are older than 40, cost too much in benefits and won’t buy what some dumb “expert” tells them works when EXPERIENCE educates them it doesn’t! I’ve worked in those socio/economic areas you so glibly describe, and I’ll tell you, it takes a vast amount of experience, humanity and hours long care to work in “hard to serve schools.” But I’ll never forget the “pay” my students gave me every day for giving them a jelly bean award or success party with their parents! There is no “War” except in the corporate board rooms who are planning their destructive campaigns to riddle our public schools AND denigrate teachers!
And why is TFA viewed as “elite” or better?
Why should they take the jobs of laid off, certified teachers?
Or the jobs of student who majored in education and want to pursue this as a career?
I thought they were to fill shortage areas. Now they are nothing more than temporary scabs.
Actually, Wendy’s newest mantra is they are leading a revolution in leadership, or something to that affect. She doesn’t even value the lowly teachers. It is a breeding ground for the future Rhees and Whites….she should be embarrassed.
This is a business plan for her…teach for Wendy’s wallet.
“Get a clue…?” The realities you assert about success rates in charters in Denver, don’t match the FACTS that board members, such as Jeannie Kaplan have refuted with researched, verifiable test results, not massaged scores. REAL charter scores which, by the way are OFTEN lower than their public school counter parts! As the saying goes,”there are lies, and then there are *%@#* lies!” As to your assertion that few TFA’ers leave when they can, Ha, tell that to the multitudes of faculties who try to help them limp through the year, let them cry on their shoulders and can’t possibly have the knowledge, expertise to compare a 5 week quickie program with four years and experience! But just as a former commenter stated, they ARE forcing out older teachers for one reason and it has NOTHING to do with passion and everything to do with salary and benefits! Your attitudes and baseless theories are just what corporate America wants to hear babbled back to them!