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Jenny, you don’t have to take the tests. Your parents can say, “I refuse.”
Keep learning. Believe in yourself and be glad that you have such dedicated teachers.
Jenny writes:
Hi, Dr. Ravitch.
My name is Jenny. I’m a fifth-grade student in New York State and feel that the NYS tests are going to be too hard. Many kids are going to fail. From the research that I have done, I realize the reason the state is making the test harder is that NYS wants the public school students to fail. I AM a public school student. When we take the tests, many of us will be stressed out. What if students have a bad day on the day of the test and then they fail them? What if I don’t take the tests? I might go to summer school because NYS doesn’t allow kids to not take the tests. I feel that it is wrong to put a child in summer school for not taking a stupid test that determines if you know the specific type of math and ELA stuff on the tests. Kids need fun in the sun. Kids have rights, too.
Another problem is that teachers don’t like to see their kids fail, and I don’t like to see my teachers fail. I don’t like to see my teachers with sad faces because they see the results of the test and they say to themselves, “Did I do something wrong? Am I a bad teacher? Did I teach them what they needed to learn?” My Math and Science teacher is awesome and my Social Studies and ELA teacher is cool. They are very good teachers. They always tell my class that they want to keep us all day.
I feel that it’s wrong that NYS would give fifth graders tests that would be hard for us to pass. Shame on NYS.
Can you try to fight for us to stay out of summer school or from being punished by not getting into good classes because I don’t want to take the test?
I’m upset because I feel like they’re trading us to charter schools. I feel like NYS is treating us like test slaves.
I wrote this letter because I feel that it’s wrong. NYS is wrong for what they did.
Thank you for reading my letter. I know you have a lot of things to do.
Jenny
Diane Ravitch's blog 
This is all well and good, and I support it. However…
My kids will test well. I always tested very well, and so far they are all shaping up to be great test takers as well.
My state, Rhode Island, has one of the worst honors programs in the country. In fact, honors programs are neither funded nor required by the state. But still, for those in the know, there do exist the “better” classes that the “better” students somehow end up finding themselves in.
And, of course, a parent of a child who tends to score well on standardized tests who tries to opt their son or daughter out of said tests can always be reminded what a shame it is that they won’t qualify for said “better” classes. All off the record, of course.
Ron, what about the kids who don’t test well? Do we throw them away?
I think you can oppose the testing regime without opting out.
Diane, it depends on the real purpose of the test. I think you and I both agree on the more nefarious “real purposes” at work in education today, and their destructive consequences.
However, as a means of ranking students… All I can say is that ME and MINE shine on standardized tests, so I have nothing personal against them on that count. If states want to be morons and use the tests in such a way that good test takers benefit in ways they really shouldn’t, then good for us.
Meanwhile, if my son will effectively be banned from what passes for “honors” here in RI unless he takes his NECAP test, then it isn’t really good for him if I opt him out, is it? Not saying it’s fair, but it is what it is.
Personally I see things getting ugly when parents of exceptionally good or poor test takers begin to realize that they might be able to blackmail their schools and/or teachers by threatening to opt them out of testing — or NOT opt them out of testing, as the case may be. The threat of losing access to honors programs will help to keep the parents of the good test takers in line, but what about those on the other end of the spectrum?
We will be discussing the unintended consequences of this national debacle for decades to come.
Ron, from one Poirier to another- you really think that any State Test matters?
Tupper, we Acadians certainly did get around after 1755, didn’t we? You’re not a family member I know, are you?
I think any state test that has a concrete impact on my child’s future matters very much, no matter how asinine the policy that makes it so may be. I am both a teacher and a caring citizen, but before either of those, I’m a parent.
Do I think being assigned to honors classes (or at least what passes for them here) will benefit my children? Yes, I do.
Ron, You done any family research? E-mail if you have at gocusetupper@gmail.com Thanks!
Ron, I live and teach in Rhode Island and I have no idea what you are talking about. Most public schools have honors classes, and any student who isn’t recommended for them can get into them with a parent’s phone call. I’ve never heard of state tests having anything to do with class placement.
Jenny,
I teach history in high school in Connecticut. We, too, are having testing issues in my state. Thank you for writing your letter. I have posted it in my classroom, right under the “Testing to despair; High-Stakes testing is destroying education” bumber sticker.
Wonderful!
Hi Jenny,
I’m a 5th grade teacher in NY. I agree, the tests stink. They don’t measure anything useful and are a colossal waste of my time and yours.
You see Jenny, the world for the most part is a good place, full of good, well intentioned people. Then there is a sub-species we call politicians (Example- Gov. Cuomo), and those that are appointed by the said sub-species (Example- Commissoner King). They have, what adults call a hidden agenda. That means they use their place and power to achieve their own personal goals. The Governor would like to be the President of the US one day, and the Commissioner would likely follow him as his Secretary of Education. In order to accomplish these goals, they must make it look like they did something positive and right now they are “fixing” our education system. Not to mention, the money. The money that lobbyists will throw at them.
The only problem is that the system wasn’t broke, but big corporations like Pearson and individuals like David Coleman (Common Core Dave) stand to make millions of dollars by selling new and improved “programs” to schools state and nationwide. So they make up a bunch of false statistics, and convince schools they must change their programs and sell them new programs. In the meanwhile, you the student suffers.
So Jenny, it’s a tale that’s as old as mankind really. It’s all about greed.
You, however can make a difference. Remember, right is right.
Thanks for caring kid!
You make excellent points. Jenny, always look at the politicians, then notice where the money is going because of their policies and laws. You will see the corruption there.
I definitely think it’s important for kids to be involved in their education, but I’m not sure that it sounds like this child has been involved in a healthy way. Clearly an adult (parent most likely) has involved this child in educational policy which is likely above the child’s comprehension level. While Jenny seems to have mentioned a few points, it doesn’t seem like she has a full understanding of the context of state tests or accountability, and she shouldn’t have to have such an understanding.
Question authority can be a good thing, but should we be encouraging kids to believe certain parts of their 5th grade education are “stupid” – even if they are? I don’t know that I think Jenny’s letter is 100% inappropriate. After all, I could imagine a situation where a few inquisitive 5th grader gets involved and starts doing independent research about such tests. I’m not sure I would dissuade a child from doing such research. However, I also wouldn’t start feeding a child information that leads the child to belief school policy is “stupid,” at least at the 5th grade level.
A real 5th-grader wrote this letter, word for word: http://crunchyprogressiveparenting.blogspot.com/2012/11/a-childs-response-to-standardized.html She also delivered it to her school principal, and had the opportunity to discuss it with her. 🙂
We did “opt her out” of the second practice test but we mutually agreed to take the real ones so as not to negatively impact her teachers or school. Next year, though, may be another story.
….the point being that there is more than one 5th-grader who feels more or less the same way. *smile*
Thanks for responding crunchydeb. First, to clarify, I wasn’t saying the letter was false – simply wondering how the 5th grader came to have so many viewpoints and knowledge about state tests. To the extent that it was self-led, that makes sense. To the extent that parents are exposing kids to their political/philosophical viewpoints about education that may be beyond their capacity for comprehension, I don’t know that I think that’s appropriate. In your case, it sounds like it was self-led, and you were simply supporting your child’s curiosity.
I suppose I also am wondering about the appropriateness of a child openly questioning school/teacher policy – not only broad policy (e.g., purpose of tests), but specific management procedures (e.g., should a child be allowed to read after completing tests) and courtesy level of staff (e.g., did staff apologize for asking kids to miss specials).
I do believe in encouraging kids to advocate for their rights and well-being, but I also believe in encouraging kids to be courteous and understand respect of authority and their place in the world. I suppose this may be a matter of philosophy of child development, though. I can’t say I think encouraging a child to write a letter to his/her teacher expressing disagreement of educational practice is necessarily wrong, but I think it may come with its fair share of negative consequences. Would be interested to hear your thoughts…
Before she took it in and gave it to her teacher, we did talk about how it might be received, but she asked me those same questions and even as a teacher I only had so many answers for her – and she is nothing if not inquisitive about WHY WHY WHY. (She is her mother’s daughter that way! LOL) And her teacher is open and understanding that my daughter functions better in the world if she understands why something is the way it is, so we weren’t worried that it would come off as disrespecting her teacher, especially as we all knew it wasn’t the teacher’s own decision to not allow reading or, well, anything – but we also all know that the tests are a time sink and one student cared enough to say something. *grin*
The principal did speak with my daughter about the letter and answered her questions, not to my daughter’s satisfaction, mind you, but as much as she could, so it was a fruitful discussion all the way around. Next year she’ll be starting in a magnet middle school for humanities and communications and I suspect she’ll find a lot of like-minded activist-types to bounce ideas off of; the principal here said she believes my daughter will do great things in middle school, so I guess she comes off OK in the end. 🙂
I don’t understand. Why on earth should the kids NOT know why they’re taking these tests? Is there is a valid reason why these tests are so important? If not, the kids pick up on that right away. They know the tests are “stupid,” even if they don’t articulate it as well as Jenny has. My 6th and 9th grade sons are begging to get out of the tests.
Jennifer, I’m not sure that 5th graders can understand the complexity of all educational issues. Believe me, I’m not supporting the tests, but I don’t think kids have the intellectual maturity, education, or experience to fully understand all things they may experience in school. Consider some curriculum decisions – should kids have the right to weigh in on curricular decisions because they experience the curriculum? I do think that soliciting kids feedback in a structured way could very much make sense, such as trying to gauge stress caused by test. However, do you really believe a 5th grader understands the statistical methodology in the MET report that would be necessary to comprehend in order to form a complete opinion about teacher evaluation via annual test?
Here’s an issue: we are setting kids up to feel the right to not participate in anything they don’t understand or agree with, and there may be many things throughout their life that they don’t want to do, but may need to.
Yes, your 6th & 9th grade sons are begging to get out of the tests, but they probably also don’t want a curfew or limit on TV/video games. Does that mean they should get their way in that arena? Yes, their perspective should be heard, but we also don’t rest our decisions on their opinions because we realize they don’t have the capacity to fully understand that subject/decision, so we don’t give them freedom to decide in that area.
Of course I don’t think that younger students are able to understand all of the ins and outs of education policy. But there should be some legitimate reasoning for these tests, and I frankly don’t see one.
I teach 8th graders, so a bit older, but by this point in their schooling they are TIRED of these standardized tests. They know that the scores will not affect their academic careers, and so they really don’t care about the tests. Some of them, if they were told that a bad score would hurt a specific teacher and/or school, would throw the test on purpose. Some of the students will work hard on the test no matter what, but the kids get really sick of all of this testing.
You should have heard the kids groan when I told them that my area was adding a fourth end of level test in social studies. The kids asked me for the rationale. I told them that the district wanted to rank the schools. Several kids said, “but what about the kids who don’t care about the tests? That’s not fair that a teacher or school would be ranked on something they can’t control.”
As for my sons, one of them does very well on the tests, but gets enormously stressed out about them. He didn’t sleep the night before the state writing test. My other son has a learning disability and struggles. He doesn’t need yet another test telling him that he is struggling. I don’t think that they should have a say over everything, but limiting their TV time and requiring them to do their homework are VERY different than subjecting them to the unnecessary stress that these tests bring. Children have to deal with enough stress in their lives without forcing more onto them that isn’t necessary for their growth.
This morning my 2nd-grader asked me, out of the blue, if teachers get grades like students do. She may not understand all the particulars, and I’m sure even my bright 5th-grader doesn’t, but she gets some of the basic workings and even that is enough for her to feel it isn’t fair to pretty much anyone involved.
I doubt a fifth-grader wrote this letter.
I should add, I doubt a fifth-grader wrote this letter without a lot of help from someone else. Too many on-target issues for a 10-year-old.
I disagree. I teach a Gifted & Talented class in NYC, grade 5, and I have students who could have written Jenny’s letter. Books 2 & 3 were not allotted enough time. Writing is a process. One needs to draft, plan, edit, revise before publishing. Jenny is right. These tests will eventually phase out public school education. I could see how my students kept looking at the time on the board and the clocks in the classroom. They rushed through the reading and the writing parts and barely had time to reread and check. Another half hour would have helped greatly. I can’t imagine what students in other classes were going through.
BUT — to be fair, if the purpose of the test is to rank (and possibly yank), it doesn’t matter how much time is allotted so long as there is a bell curve of scores that is functional for the task of ranking.
I would have LOVED more of this sort of testing when I was in school. It would have been my moment to shine, all of the time. I test phenomenally well.
Of course I think the whole endeavor is silly and destructive, but I wouldn’t have been upset by it when I was a student.
All of the kids in her Gifted & Talented class got there because they were ranked through standardized tests, mainly taken at ages 4 and 5.
I teach 5th Grade. I won’t know the results of the tests until September. How does this make for better instruction?
Dear Jenny,
I am so proud of you for your courage to speak out. There are millions of people that would agree with you. Many will just stay silent.
My daughter is in college and her teacher (professor) allows each student to submit their work and then resubmit the same work with needed edits for a grade. He tells his students that he even needs someone to proofread his work before it gets published. Depending on the assignment this could take days or weeks to accomplish. This is how we all learn and build confidence in ourselves no matter what our age. Get joy out of what you create and for all your efforts.
And continue to teach others what you have already figured out. You are mature beyond your years:):)
Read this link and enjoy. http://institute4learning.com/blog/2013/03/22/10-item-test-on-what-is-most-important-in-education/
One more thing Jenny – remember we are all here on this blog fighting for you and all children that do not have a voice.
Hi Jenny,
Wow..great job, girl!
Way to express yourself and speak up for how you feel and what you have experienced.
For some inconceivable reason, adults (not usually teachers or parents) think you should suffer at school and take lots of long, complicated tests that are created by large companies (as oppose to the teacher made tests). Some adults even seem to take pride in how uncomfortable they can make students through the combination of testing and curriculum they cook up!
I am a high school teacher. I have watched many of my students (some of whom are new to this country and do not speak English yet) suffer through these type of tests. Sometimes become discouraged and upset by the almost endless testing and test prep. It will make them very happy to know they have a young friend in their corner.
Thank you for speaking out.
Continued success, my young friend!
Ang
Jenny, I am so glad you are using the power of the written word to spread your message about concern for the misuse of the standardized tests students have to take in New York State. Don’t let people discourage you by telling you that you are too young to make change happen, or that you can’t fully understand the issues involved. Keep doing your research and making your opinions known, and find other students and adults who want to help you. Be inspired by child activists like Craig Kielburger who started his cause to end child labor when he was 12! (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_The_Children) Margaret Mead has a great quote for you: “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.”
I am truly astonished that some responses reveal an unwillingness to accept the possibility that at least one fifth-grader in the entire United States of America might have enough grasp of education issues that s/he could write a plain-spoken “letter” like the one Diane has posted.
In all humility, when I was in fifth grade I could have said some very precocious things about issues like legalized segregation, the civil rights movement, interracial violence, religious stereotypes, etc. And I personally knew a few other children my age who were grappling with such matters too. Yes, it had a lot to do with being around adults who were dealing with such issues but I make no pretense to having been or being a genius. **Disclaimer: Not that I wouldn’t want to be one.**
🙂
Let change perspectives for a moment. A fully mature adult—the POTUS no less!—by the name of George W. Bush Jr. said in 2001 that “A reading comprehension test is a reading comprehension test. And a math test in the fourth grade—there’s not many ways you can foul up a test … It’s pretty easy to ‘norm’ the results” (Daniel Koretz, MEASURING UP: WHAT EDUCATIONAL TESTING REALLY TELLS US, 2008, p. 7).
This from someone whose name is forever associated with the high-stakes standardized testing plague actively promoted by No Child Left Behind [or as one concerned commentator has called it, “No Child’s Behind Left”] that later metastasized into Race To The Top [aka “Dash For The Cash”]. Even a slight acquaintance with how such tests are designed, administered and scored would lead me to declare that the above words by a fifth grader are patently more thoughtful, wise and useful than the considered [?] judgement of a mature individual who was surrounded by numerous [supposedly educated and experienced] adult advisers.
Can’t we give fifth-graders credit for any good sense?
We live in uncertain times. If it turns out to be ‘fifth-grader-gate’ then so be it. But why the assumption that such a letter is impossible?
Just my dos centavitos worth.
Diane, I’m a NYS middle school English teacher, and I have to tell you these Common Core tests are awful. As someone earlier noted, the second day was allotted to books two and three, which were multiple choice then essay writing. About ten percent of my students didn’t finish the second book. This is very bad for a couple of reasons:
1) These students were told by me and other teachers, based on our past experience with the NYS ELA exams that they would have plenty of time to finish the tests. In the past this has been true; students have always finished them with time to spare. So, they worked through the tests methodically and carefully. They were penalized for this.
2) In the past, the way the essay portions of the NYS ELA were graded was if you didn’t complete the final section, which is a lengthy essay, you would get severely penalized for it. That essay was the most important part of the test. This means these kids, and they included some of my top students, just bombed a section of the test.
I’m so upset about how our kids — my students! — are being treated by these exams. They’re already sitting for 4 1/2 hours of testing across three days. (And let’s not forget, 4 1/2 hours next week for math.) This is demoralizing and unfair. I have kids in tears. I have a student who had a panic attack. They all feel like frustrated. The only good thing I can report is how hard these young people are working. They want to do well despite the situation and are working very hard.
“Happy Hunger Games, everyone!”
Dr. Ravitch , I would like to thank you so much for posting my comment about the New York State test, and thank you to all those bloggers that believed that I wrote that comment. To the bloggers that didn’t believe that I wrote that comment, well, boo hoo for you. Adults like to think of us as themselves when they were younger. Adults are doubting kids now because they probably were doubted when they where younger.Of coarse there are some people that still won’t believe that I wrote this and there are some that will. So I thank those that believe that I, Jenny wrote this.
You go, Jenny! Your wonderful letter showed how capable you are…much more than any standardized test ever could.