When I heard that MAGA firebrand Charlie Kirk had been shot and killed at a campus rally in Utah, I got a familiar feeling in the pit of my stomach. I had a visceral memory of the day that President John F. Kennedy was killed, the day that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was killed, the day that Bobby Kennedy was killed.
I loved them. I didn’t love or admire Charlie Kirk. I never agreed with anything he said.
But I despise political violence. I am sorry for his family.
We are supposed to be a nation that protects dissent, protest, and diverse opinions. If speaking against the grain makes you a target of assassins, our country is in deep trouble.
It seems obvious to me that our country needs gun control. But it’s equally obvious that the Supreme Court and the GOP have made almost any kind of gun control impossible. Just this week, a court in Florida struck down a ban on open-carry of guns. The judges said that it was a violation of the Second Amendment to forbid people to carry their gun openly.
We are all targets.
Children in school, people in malls and at concerts will continue to die because of the current insane interpretation of the Second Amendment. Guns are currently the leading cause of death for children and teens. Learning how to react to a murderer is now a rite of passage in school–every kind of school.
The right claims that it’s devoted to the “right to life.” But that’s not true. The right to life is secondary to the right to carry a gun.
The deaths of scores of children and the blood of Charlie Kirk stain the hands of the Supreme Court majority, which strikes down any effort to control access to guns, to require gun-owners to keep their weapons locked away, and to make gun safety a priority rather than a violation of the Second Amendment.
I don’t expect this love affair with deadly weapons will end in my lifetime. I hope it ends someday. Many people will needlessly die before then.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
i worry that this will become an excuse to install martial law or something.
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cf. https://beingliberal.substack.com/p/when-tragedy-becomes-theatre-dont
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Yes, we are all waiting for Trump’s reichstag fire.
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Alas, yes
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Very well said, Diane.
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Thank you, as always, for your wisdom.
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It doesn’t get more politically violent than bombing refugee families in tents and hospitals and first responders and sniping children and blocking food and water and then shooting people who gather for aid and all the other heinous things Israel is and has been doing to the Palestinians, but you’re going to mourn more for a guy who literally said that school shootings are worth it to protect the Second Amendment and that Blacks were better off in slavery and that trans people shouldn’t exist and…..
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Though I loathed and despised Charlie Kirk, he did not deserve to be shot and I certainly am opposed to any kind of violence that is used to intimidate and silence people from speaking their minds. This is yet another assassination in a long line of assassinations. In June, House Speaker Emerita Melissa Hortman (DFL-Brooklyn Park, Minnesota) and her husband, Mark, were fatally shot in their home in the early morning. “Our state lost a great leader, and I lost the dearest of friends,” Walz said. “Speaker Hortman was someone who served the people of Minnesota with grace, compassion, humor and a sense of service. She was a formidable public servant, a fixture and a giant in Minnesota. She woke up every day determined to make this state a better place. She is irreplaceable and will be missed by so many.”
Sen. John Hoffman (DFL-Champlin) and his wife, Yvette, were also shot in their home in a related attack. Walz said both are expected to survive.
They held a moment of silence for Charlie Kirk in the US House. Did they hold a moment of silence for the Hortmans?
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No, Joe Jersey, there was no moment of silence for the Hartmans of Minnesota.
Nor were flags lowered across the U.S.
only MAGAs get those honors.
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Governor Newsom, whom the Democrats are desperately trying to push down our throats as the next American president, just tweeted that the best way “honor Charlie’s memory is to continue his work”. His “work” was white supremacy, sexism, homo/transphobia and every other sort of bigotry. So Newsom has told you who he is. I hope you believe him.
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I will not be continuing Charlie Kirk’s work.
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Doesn’t “white supremacy, sexism, homo/transphobia and every other sort of bigotry” describe Trump’s work and not Newsom’s?
Don’t understand the hypocrisy of someone who professes to be so outraged at a single tweet from a Dem who OBVIOUSLY is not pushing those nasty policies, and yet saw no differences between Kamala Harris and Trump, given his long history of spewing hate and governing to enshrine those policies.
If you truly didn’t know that one candidate in 2024 was the candidate of “white supremacy, sexism, homo/transphobia and every other sort of bigotry” and the other one was standing up against all of those, that speaks for itself.
Newsom:
“I knew Charlie, and I admired his passion and commitment to debate. His senseless murder is a reminder of how important it is for all of us, across the political spectrum, to foster genuine discourse on issues that deeply affect us all without resorting to political violence. The best way to honor Charlie’s memory is to continue his work: engage with each other, across ideology, through spirited discourse. In a democracy, ideas are tested through words and good-faith debate — never through violence. Honest disagreement makes us stronger; violence only drives us further apart and corrodes the values at the heart of this nation.”
Newsom was referring to continuing Kirk’s work engaging across ideologies in debate – which as much as I disliked Kirk and his disingenuous arguments, he did far more than most far right Republicans. Meanwhile, Trump promises to go after those “radical left terrorists” who he directly blames for Kirk’s death (without an iota of evidence yet) and names all of the supposed victims of radical left violence while conveniently leaving out Melissa Hortman and her husband – killed – and John Hoffman and his wife – nearly killed – because apparently only right wing Republicans matter and riling up anger and violence against everyone else is fine.
Newsom may not be my favorite democrat, but we live in a democracy which means I might not get my first choice because lots of other people might prefer someone else who is also going to protect the rights of trans people and children the way Kamala Harris would have. But it’s a democracy – at least for now – so anyone who decided that protecting trans kids wasn’t important enough to make them vote for the candidate that wasn’t out to harm trans kids so she could defeat Charlie Kirk’s candidate has that freedom, too. They should own their belief that if they can’t have the candidate they want, then they no longer care whether the candidate supporting “white supremacy, sexism, homo/transphobia and every other sort of bigotry” defeats the candidate that fights against all of those.
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Those are Newsom’s actual words. He’s the one who wants to carry on Charlie’s work. If you’re defending Newsom for saying that, then you’re defending Charlie Kirk. If that’s where you take your stand, okay….
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NYCPSP quoted Newsom’s tweet. Newsom praised him for his willingness to engage in debate, not for his ideology. Newsom was not calling on all Americans to unite in favor of racism, homophobia, and other bigotries.
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The nazis debated whether Jews should be put in gas ovens. Do you praise them for that willingness to debate? I would think that NYCPSP of all people would understand that there are certain things that are not debatable and that the willingness to do so is hatred, not unity. Kirk was as vile as any nazi and there is no reason to praise him for anything.
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BTW, it’s very disingenuous for Newsom or anyone else to pretend that Kirk was ever willing to debate in “good faith”. He “debated” the same way xtian homeschoolers are taught to do (wouldn’t be surprised if he was one himself, but I don’t care enough to research his disgusting life). The point is not a sharing of ideas, but beating your opponent any way possible to impose your ideology. To divorce any part of Kirk as a person from his ideology is dangerous and false.
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A good example of NOT arguing in good faith:
Someone who writes “The nazis debated whether Jews should be put in gas ovens. Do you praise them for that willingness to debate?”
What is vile is a blatant lie implying that Nazis went on college campuses or anywhere else in Germany and publicly “debated” with Jews – or with any German who didn’t want to put Jews in ovens – about whether or not it was a good idea to put Jews in gas chambers.
Are you trying to normalize Nazis?
Nick Fuentes has been feuding with Kirk. If it turns out the shooter is someone influenced by the far right fascist movement who have been angry with Kirk, it won’t be shocking.
There should be no hagiographies of Charlie Kirk. He said some abhorrent things. But debate was his thing – he went to Oxford and Cambridge to debate. The attempt by someone here to smear yet another Democrat who is actually fighting against the evils she professes to be against because he wanted to remind angry Kirk supporters that Kirk debated is abhorrent. Why, just why?
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“Are you trying to normalize Nazis?”
Silly, I’m not the one mourning Charlie Kirk. That would be you.
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Dienne,
People are mourning the murder of Charlie Kirk not because they agreed with his ideas, but because they abhor political violence. They believe that it’s a stain on our country when someone is assassinated for speaking out, even if they didn’t agree with him..
Consider this column by Simone Sanders Townsend of MSNBC. She is a Black woman. She mourns the murder of Charlie Kirk. She writes that political violence threatens our democracy. She says this is not a Republican or Democratic issue. It’s a “survival of democracy” issue.
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/charlie-kirk-killed-shooting-utah-political-violence-rcna230487
She wrote:
“Charlie Kirk’s job was possible only in a democracy.
“A co-founder of the conservative advocacy group Turning Point USA, he made his living by sharing his ideas on social media, making arguments in opinion columns and books and giving speeches.
“On Wednesday, he died while doing that work, shot while speaking to students at Utah Valley University. He was 31 years old, a husband and a father.
“This is a tragedy. Charlie Kirk’s death is heartbreaking — for his wife, for his children, for his family, friends and community. And it is a tragedy for all Americans, because political violence is never acceptable.
“The killing is the latest in a disturbing string of attacks.
“Earlier this year, a Minnesota state lawmaker was assassinated in her home while another Minnesota lawmaker and his wife survived an assassination attempt. These were not national figures. They were local public servants just doing the everyday work of democracy. Their targeting, like Kirk’s, was an attack not only on individuals, but on the very idea of public service.
“We have been through this before. In the 1950s and ’60s, political violence scarred American life. Civil rights activist Medgar Evers was shot in his driveway. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated on a motel balcony. Robert F. Kennedy was killed while running for president.
“Echoes of that era are all around us. Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro’s family home was set on fire in what authorities believe was politically motivated arson. Texas lawmakers sheltering in Chicago to block restrictive voting laws received a bomb threat. Donald Trump survived an assassination attempt at a rally in Pennsylvania. And now, Kirk has been killed while speaking to students.
“Layer onto this the harassment of election workers, the threats against school board members and the violent targeting of Jewish institutions. What we see is not random; it is a surge of political violence spreading across parties, across ideologies and across communities.
“The Department of Homeland Security has already warned that political violence is one of the greatest threats facing America. The evidence is everywhere.
“The constitutional promise of free speech means nothing if you can be killed while speaking your mind.
“And here’s the truth: Democracy cannot function under fear. The constitutional promise of free speech means nothing if you can be killed while speaking your mind. People cannot vote or serve in public office if they face threats to their lives. If Americans come to believe that stepping into the public square could cost them their lives, then the foundations of self-government collapse.
“When leaders demonize opponents as enemies, when they traffic in dehumanizing language, when they normalize threats as part of politics, they create the climate in which violence flourishes. Words can hold our democracy together. Words can also light the fuse that tears it apart.
“This is not a Republican problem or a Democratic problem. It is an American problem. That is why the shooting of Charlie Kirk is not about just him. It is about all of us. It is about whether we still believe in the bedrock principle that our disagreements belong in legislatures, in debate halls and at the ballot box — not in the sights of a gun.”
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Well over 200 journalists in Gaza have been killed in the last two years – way more than any other conflict ever – just for speaking out. Yet there hasn’t been nearly the outcry about that. Six year old Hind Rajab was killed by 355 bullets while waiting for help surrounded by her dead family (the help that was coming – allowed by the IDF – was assassinated too). Again, nowhere near the outcry about that. I’ve spent the last year seeing the insides of children’s skulls and people dying slowly in the rubble and being burned alive in tents and more on a regular basis. Don’t tell me people abhor “political violence”. What they abhor is powerful, affluent straight, white, xtian males getting killed.
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Dienne,
This columnist agrees with you. Everyone treats Kirk as a moral philosopher.
He was not:
https://open.substack.com/pub/wonkette/p/the-evil-that-men-do-lives-after?r=rls8&utm_medium=ios
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Thank you for the Wonkette article, Diane. Yes, that’s it exactly.
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I think the Wonkette article is rightfully rather damning of all three of the primary people mentioned: Newsom, Melber and Kirk alike.
Personally, I feel sorry for Kirk’s wife and kids, but not for Kirk himself because to paraphrase, “The Evil That Men Do Lives” WITH Them, too, and what goes around comes around…
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His wife is a grown adult who chose to marry and remain married to a white supremacist. I do feel sorry for the kids, but then, I felt sorry for them the minute they were born to a white supremacist. I just hope they grow up to understand how evil their father was, but it’s possible that his assassination will make them revere him without the opportunity to see his flaws for themselves.
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Newsom’s press release may have been written by one the PR people on his staff. I wouldn’t worry too much about the awkward statement. As far as charming people as sociopaths, some like “Dexter” are able to contain their “dark passenger” in social settings.
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A social media account is a campaign vehicle. The candidate (or presumptive candidate) is responsible for everything said by his campaign and Newsom is smart enough to understand that. That post was vetted by either Newsom personally or by someone Newsom trusts completely. Those are his words, whether directly or indirectly it does not matter.
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And then there was ANOTHER school shooting in Colorado. Three children (one of whom was shooter) wounded.
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Do you wonder to what length the Epstein billionaire boys’ club would go to get the hounds off the trail of those pesky inculpating files? Russians are masters at destabilization.
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I have wondered when this would happen. A population of people under the stress of condemnation does not consist entirely of pacifists. Sooner or later, one of the people will decide that violence is justified. While I am sorry Charlie Kirk was assassinated, I fear even more for the effect of his death on the body politic in general. I fear he will become the Jen-Paul Marat of the distant right wing, bolstering their push to fascism.
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I watched videos from many angles. Kirk was hit by one bullet to the jugular. The apparent shooter was 200 yards away. My thought: highly professional assassin.
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This view has been echoed by others in the blogosphere. Since the assassin has not been apprehended, it raises the possibility even more strongly.
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Here’s one to watch out for — another rabbit from Hitler’s Hat — and Trump never seems to miss a single one of them —
When Tragedy Becomes Theatre – Don’t Let Them “Horst Wessel” Charlie Kirk
• https://beingliberal.substack.com/p/when-tragedy-becomes-theatre-dont
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I don’t think Kirk outsmarted the students at Oxford and Cambridge at all. He was a high school graduate and community college drop out and, as a retired professor familiar with the schools he attended and who also taught at a community college, that was readily apparent to me. I saw no wisdom or insights of value in what he said. He spoke from a massive amount of hatred and anger, and he often resorted to manipulation as he twisted issues to fit his preconceived notions, MAGAt views and personal biases. He also asked questions that served to elicit one word answers that impede the voice of others and to try to prove his point. I was very impressed with the mostly BRITISH who students seemed to me to know a hell of a lot more TRUTHS about America, our history and our Constitution than he did.
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Correction: That should have been ‘BRITISH students who’ (Sorry, I have a jumping cursor so stuff often gets misplaced)
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Am I the only one who suspects that Kirk said what he said and did what he did primarily for financial gain? I don’t doubt that he was strongly committed to his political beliefs, however hateful and despicable they were. However, as far as I could tell, he lacked skills that were marketable in this economy, and yet, for someone today whose highest diploma was from high school, he sure made a hell of a lot of money –primarily from donations to his cause.
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What a tragic commentary on the country we now live in, that from the concrete Rose Garden on down, racism, xenophobia, misogyny, scapegoating, lies, etc are best selling products and sources of income, including for the poorly educated. Such a strange world…
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Actually, just like the guy that became Kirk’s dear leader (and a lot of similar people who are his followers), I think the end game for them is not just to gain money alone, but also for POWER –especially over historically marginalized groups, for whom they have no empathy whatsoever and who they want to totally dominate, such as people of color, women, etc… (Any people from those groups who happen to be in their employ or entourage are just tokens for show –and who they probably think they have a lot of control over.)
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ECE,
If they had the power to do so, they would ethnically clean the nation and make it a white Christian haven.
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Yep, Diane, you hit the nail right on the head! It sure looks like they’re currently trying real hard to do that, too. Gotta hope that someone or something stops them soon.
Unfortunately, with this Congress and SCOTUS, the outlook is not looking very promising for people who want to keep our Constitution and democracy intact for all, and not end up with a country that values and serves just a narrow number and kind of people.
It’s so frustrating for those of us who are feeling powerless right now and have no money to contribute to initiatives that aim to prevent this from happening! (I get requests for donations to Democrats DAILY!!!)
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Speaking of other countries, yesterday, Brazil’s Supreme Court convicted Bolsonaro of an attempted coup (and the donald said that he is “very unhappy” about it):
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/bolsonaro-convicted-coup-attempt-brazil-224330818.html
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It must be very disappointing to MAGA world to learn that the alleged killer is white and grew up in a Republican home. His father is a retired law officer. No Democrats or crazed leftists in his home.
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The suspect sounds a lot like the guy that tried to assassinate Trump himself in PA and just nicked his ear, who was a registered Republican. Curiously, we STILL know virtually nothing more about that guy. We probably never will know, too, since unsurprisingly, there’s no outrage against his own peeps who behave like this.
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It would be worthwhile to pull up the PBSNewsHour for September 10, 2025. There is an astonishing section at the beginning of the program that introduces listeners to Mr. Kirk by showing his elements of his work including what seems to be a panel-like presentation. He briefly talks about gun control.
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Dienne77 you have become despicable. Mainstream media lied for years about Russia, lefties believe it. Just like the media using nazi bullshit.
On your best day ever and Kirk’s worst, he would annihialte you.
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I’ve watched a great many videos of Kirk debating students on college campuses. He wasn’t the idiot that one commenter, above, made him out to be. And if one reads the context of Newsome’s comments about this atrocious murder, it is clear that he was praising Kirk’s commitment to dialogue and debate and does not hold Kirk’s views. I agree with him. It’s important for us to learn to talk with one another in this country. A lot of us need to repeat Kindergarten, where that’s taught.
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Bob, If you were referring to my post regarding Kirk’s debates with students from Oxford and Cambridge (which I’ve been to and hold in very high regard), I never said or meant to imply that he was an “idiot.” I did not see his other debates, but based on those that I saw, I said that it was very apparent to me that he was poorly educated and that he had a very limited knowledge base in regard to the truths about our country.
I think it’s very dangerous to send someone out who knows few facts, but acts AS IF he knows it all, to speak with young people when he has an agenda to manipulate their minds –and HE never intended to consider different points of view himself.
By the highly respected Julian Vasquez Heilig in his “Cloaking Inequity,” here is “From Watchlists to Cruelty: The True Legacy of Charlie Kirk” https://cloakinginequity.com/2025/09/12/from-watchlists-to-cruelty-the-true-legacy-charlie-kirk-left-behind/
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BTW, I taught Kindergarten for 12 years and I agree with your recommendation about people needing to return to Kindergarten “to learn how to talk with one another.”
However, if he was still alive, I would add Kirk to the top of that list because, from what I saw and have read, I think he talked at people a whole lot more than he talked with them. He seemed to me to do that in his attempts to assert the correctness of his opinions and, in order to capture the disaffected especially, to alter their views so they would accept and adopt his own beliefs. (I don’t think there were too many takers at OxBridge, but there may have been more at US campuses.)
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It’s not a real debate or exchange of ideas when one side is there to sell his point of view and is not open to persuasion.
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Exactly, Diane! Thanks so much for your truly excellent summary of what I was trying to convey!!!
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Here’s an interesting view and analysis of a debate between Kirk and Rudy, a Cambridge student who is well informed regarding morals biblically and historically:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O7y50cNb7c
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Here’s another interesting view and analysis of a debate between Kirk and Tilly, a Cambridge female student who’s a feminist majoring in Sociology:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRLV5Is-Pc4
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Kirk resorted to the “Gish Gallop” a lot. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
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