Steve Ruis has been wondering how many people died of COVID because they followed Trump’s advice? Early on in the pandemic, as people’s fears were high, Trump suggested two treatments to ward off the deadly virus: injecting yourself with bleach or taking a drug called hydroxychloroquine, which usually prescribed for malaria, rheumatoid arthritis and lupus.
He found a recent scientific study that estimated the number of people who took hydroxychloroquine and died, in five countries. Were they following Trump’s advice? Very likely. How would they have learned about this drug if he had not touted it?
We don’t know yet how many people injected bleach.
Ruis notes that Trump got the best medical treatment when he had COVID. It did not include bleach or hydroxychloroquine.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Hundreds of thousands likely died because they followed his lead in not social distancing and wearing protection–especially the former. All over America, fundamentalist church leaders refused to conduct distanced services because of his lead, and in a great many of these, a lot of people got sick and died. Trump has a lot of American blood on his bizarrely tiny little hands. Somehow this cartoonlike feature of his physiognomy fits, goes with his tiny little diseased mind.
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How many died because Trump did not encourage getting vaccinated, did not debunk the conspiracy theories and rumors about the dangers of getting vaccinated and wearing a mask? But he and his family did get vaccinated and probably wore masks, out of the public eye.
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Trump killed hundreds of thousands of Americans by making Covid denial into a political stance. So much blood on his creepy little hands. This alone, this supreme malfeasance, should have earned him a lifetime in prison rather than a seat at the top of the Repugicnan Party. Rapist. Seditious conspirator. Murderer of Americans. Traitor to our allies. Career con man. Serial philanderer and Epstein party boy. Would be authoritarian dictator. Would be murderer of asylum seekers. Mass kidnapper of the children of asylum seekers. And moron. And lunatic suffering from malignant narcissistic personality disorder.
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A sampling of Trump’s Covid Denialism:
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And then there was Mikey Dense, uh, Pence:
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Trump never said – or even suggested – for people to inject bleach. That has been debunked on multiple platforms. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-donald-trump-suggest-people-inject-poison-cure-covid-1619105 BTW, this shouldn’t need to be said but it does on this blog: stating facts is not an endorsement. No matter how revolting Trump is, there is no need to lie about him.
Yes, he should be condemned for encouraging hydroxychloroquine.
Should Biden be condemned for encouraging people to take masks off while thousands of people a week were still dying from the virus?
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The fact-checking website Snopes investigated whether Trump urged people to inject bleach and concluded the attribution was accurate.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-disinfectants-covid-19/
It included his statement at a press conference:
Here’s the official White House transcript of Trump’s remarks (emphasis added):
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. So I asked Bill a question that probably some of you are thinking of, if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that too. It sounds interesting.
ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN: We’ll get to the right folks who could.
THE PRESIDENT: Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.
So we’ll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute, that’s — that’s pretty powerful.
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Snopes? LOL, you mean the most partisan site on the internet? The site that declared the claim about Biden smearing the trucker involved in his wife’s death as “false” because “we can’t prove that the trucker wasn’t drunk”. JFC. He was cleared of all wrong doing. He even tried to render aid at the scene. Snopes is smearing him all over again.
Newsweek is pretty liberally biased and even they’re saying Trump didn’t tell people to inject bleach. Or, you could actually read/listen to Trump’s words yourself:
“A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?”
“And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful.” [emphasis added]
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Dienne,
You don’t have to trust Snopes.
Just read what Trump said.
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I did. He did not say for people to inject bleach. It’s nowhere in there. He specifically mentioned using medical doctors.
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Using medical doctors to try injecting disinfectants. ROFLMAO. You won’t give up defending this utter idiocy, Dienne, will you?
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And you won’t give up insisting that he said something he clearly didn’t say.
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I said that he said that doctors should look into injecting disinfectants. That is PRECISELY what this utter idiot said.
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Since Dienne doesn’t trust any reporting by Snopes, here is the full statement, including the official White House transcript (if Dienne doesn’t trust that, I give up):
Snopes:
“As many of these comments [on Twitter] “included jokes instead of a link to Trump’s alleged remarks, some people were left wondering what Trump actually said about disinfectants, injections, and COVID-19.
“The comment in question came shortly after a presentation by William N. Bryan, the acting undersecretary for science and technology at the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, about how heat and humidity could impact the spread of COVID-19 during the summer months. Bryan mentioned a recent, non-peer-reviewed study that showed how disinfectants and sunlight could kill the coronavirus on non-porous surfaces such as counters or door handles.
“Bryan’s presentation focused on how light and disinfectants affected the coronavirus on surfaces. But when Trump took the podium, he started talking about what would happen if light and disinfectants were “brought inside the body” to fight the virus.”
Here’s the official White House transcript of Trump’s remarks (emphasis added):
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. So I asked Bill a question that probably some of you are thinking of, if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that too. It sounds interesting.
ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN: We’ll get to the right folks who could.
THE PRESIDENT: Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.
So we’ll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute, that’s — that’s pretty powerful.
Trump made this comment following a presentation on how sunlight and disinfectant affect the coronavirus. This presentation prompted Trump to discuss a question he said “probably some of you are thinking of” concerning what would happen if you “brought the light inside the body.” As Trump continued, he also offered his thoughts on how disinfectants could be brought inside the body “by injection.” While Trump noted that this method would have to be checked by doctors, he said it sounded interesting to him.
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Yes yes yes. We all know. He said that doctors should look into injecting bleach, kinda a cleansing. ROFL.
What a freaking moron. Please don’t try to defend this utter idiocy from the guy who thought that Frederick Douglass was a live, that stealth airplanes are actually invisible, that China pays the tariffs we put on their goods, that we should send astronauts to the sun, that Denmark would be interested in selling Greenland to us, that Alabama was on the East Coast, that if we swept forests we could end forest fires, that we should nuke hurricanes. From the guy who didn’t know what the Nuclear Triad is and couldn’t name a single verse from the Bible. HE IS AN UTTER IDIOT. He is PROFOUNDLY IGNORANT about almost everything. And he’s really, really, really stupid.
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Gosh, Bob, I wish I’d have thought to say something like “stating facts is not an endorsement. No matter how revolting Trump is, there is no need to lie about him.”
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Your continued defense of this moron is bizarre itself. Really bizarre.
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The salient point is that Trump is so ignorant that he thought that injecting disinfectants was a good idea, something that should be tried out. You always choose to ignore what is most important here, Dienne. Why? Because he is Putin’s dog, and you love that Russian imperialist dictator, mass murderer, and indicted international war criminal?
Trump ordered his head of the Department of Homeland Security to have the Border Patrol SHOOT unarmed asylum seekers. When she said she couldn’t legally do that, he screamed at her and then said that they could just “shoot them in the legs or something.” He ordered his Joint Chiefs and Defense Secretary to send the military out against civilian protestors. WHY? Because he is an idiot. Because he knows almost nothing about anything.
Too bad we don’t have a stable genius like Donald Trump in the offal office right now, given our various military challenges. He is soooooo well informed! Here, a blast from the past, Trump talking to NBC reporter Chuck Todd when the former was a candidate in 2015:
TODD: “Whom do you talk to for military advice right now?”
TRUMP: “Well, I watch the shows. I mean, I really see a lot of great, you know, when you watch your show and all of the other shows, and you have the generals.”
So, “see a lot of great, you know, . . . watch your show and all of the other shows,” and you will totally understand this whole military thing.
This is the man (I’m using the term loosely) who became Commander in Chief of the most powerful country in the world.
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How to Become an Expert on Military Strategy
Here, a blast from the past, Trump talking to NBC reporter Chuck Todd when the former was a candidate in 2015:
TODD: “Whom do you talk to for military advice right now?”
TRUMP: “Well, I watch the shows. I mean, I really see a lot of great, you know, when you watch your show and all of the other shows, and you have the generals.”
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Said by a stable genius.
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dienne77 says: “Should Biden be condemned for encouraging people to take masks off while thousands of people a week were still dying from the virus?”
To be clear, Biden – IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE CDC – said that FULLY VACCINATED PEOPLE could take their masks off. It was intended to be an encouragement for people to get fully vaccinated. Thousands of FULLY VACCINATED people were not dying weekly from the virus at that time.
And Biden did that as part of a CDC Media Briefing of their new guidelines, which included saying that the fully vaccinated would still be asked to wear masks in certain settings (hospitals, public transportation).
The purpose of that lie could only be to push a false right wing narrative that Biden is no better than Trump.
The double standard here is glaring. Trump did talk about injecting disinfectant, and one has to twist the words to pretend he was not demonstrating how dangerous of a leader he was — believing he had some superior knowledge and directed scientists and medical folks to follow his dangerous and self-serving whims (with the only saving grace that sometimes they didn’t, although too often they did).
Biden was doing what he is so good at doing and is underappreciated tremendously — balancing competing needs when there is no easy and perfect solution and looking for solutions that do the least harm when there isn’t a “right” one, just a better one.
Being FULLY VACCINATED came with the advantage that you would be able to remove your mask in many situations. The CDC decided that was a good policy.
dienne77 may disagree that using that to encourage more people to get fully vaccinated back then was a bad idea. But it is outrageous that she would use a right wing narrative to make the false equivalency that Trump is no worse than Biden.
Why does she always have to do that? To help normalize Trump? It’s long past time we understand that those who normalize Trump are complicit, whether they pretend not to be Trump supporters (just Putin supporters) or whether they are rabid Trump fans.
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Dienne always does that: defends Trump and criticizes Biden. When I point that out, she accuses me of “binary thinking,” as if we don’t have a two-party system. Truly, I have not given a minute’s thought to RFK Jr., who is a crackpot, or No Labels or Marianne Williamson or Cornel West.
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What I always say, Diane, is that Biden and Trump both suck. You’re the one who thinks Biden is an honest an decent man despite his record of lying, plagiarizing, groping, harassing, warmongering, racism and genocide. When the “lesser evil” is responsible for piles of dead bodies, including tens of thousands of children, maybe it’s time to put aside the two party system, since it is not enshrined in the Constitution and the Founders specifically warned against parties at all.
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Dienne,
Please do not address me personally. State your views without snide comments.
Either Trump or Biden will be sworn in in January 2024.
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By her own standards, it would be “truthful” to say that dienne77 has a record of lying (as we saw above with Biden’s CDC press conference regarding mask-wearing), supporting warmongering (by Putin), racism (dismissing folks concerned with racism by minimizing their concerns as “identity politics” and refusing to vote for the Democrat who won because Black voters in southern states supported that candidate, and she didn’t care whether a candidate spewing racism was elected), genocide (justifying massive attacks on Ukraine and Jews instead of condemning them).
Of course the truth is a little more complex when it comes to dienne77 and Biden, but it surely isn’t complex when it comes to Trump and what his Republican enablers want. And it isn’t complex when it comes to Putin.
But it’s shocking to hear someone living in a very fragile glass house so determined to throw stones at the people who very likely support many of the same things she does, with the result of empowering those who are already working at crushing and destroying every progressive thing she says she stands for.
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NYC,
Anyone can speak freely on this blog, within the limits that I prescribe. No one’s comments here are so powerful that they change the outcome of events.
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The most important two cornerstones for Americans are life and liberty. A person who supports the politicians who put women and girls’ lives at risk and deny them reproductive freedom can spin other political issues as if they have equal import but, it’s a fraud.
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The inability on this blog to understand that opposing Biden does not equal supporting Trump is a sad indictment on education in this country. I don’t eat at McDonald’s and – I know this is a difficult concept, but hear me out – I don’t eat at Burger King either. They’re both crap not intended for human beings, just like both Biden and Trump. There are other alternatives, and even if you try to take away all the other alternatives, I still won’t eat sh–.
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Dienne,
This is a two-party system.
The next president will be Trump or Biden. Unless one of them dies or is imprisoned before November.
End of story.
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So we don’t actually have a democracy is what you’re saying. So then why should I participate in a charade?
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Don’t. Who cares how you vote? I don’t.
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Ah, Schoedinger’s leftists. Simultaneously so insignificant that our votes don’t matter, yet so powerful that we can end democracy by not voting.
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Vote Whig. Vote Know-Nothing.
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It’s really simple. Either Democrats need leftists’ votes, in which case they need to do something to earn them (not funding and arming genocide would be a heckuva start), or they don’t need do to anything to earn our votes because our votes aren’t needed, in which case, don’t blame us if Biden doesn’t win. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
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Vote Know-Nothing
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I already told you I don’t vote Democrat.
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Poor thing, there’s no United Russia party here for her to vote for!!!
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Well, Putin has a favorite candidate. MAGA—Moscow’s Agent Governing America. Your phrase.
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I hope everyone here understands that condemning those who believe in democracy and defending those who believe in authoritarianism IS taking sides. It is being complicit.
Whenever dienne77 posts that there is no difference between a party that wants to end democracy – a party that passes laws to disenfranchise voters, a party that embraces lies – and the Democrats, the party of AOC, she is taking a side FOR the anti-democracy party. She is normalizing fascism and authoritarianism by saying it’s just like the Democrats are doing.
She is pushing right wing propaganda, and whether it is intentional or not, it is pushing lies.
Notice that no one on the far right ever says that the Republicans are just like the Democrats. NEVER do they tell right wingers that the Democrats are just like the Republicans and right wingers shouldn’t vote.
Because those on the far right, who are also defenders of Putin like dienne77 is, KNOW that the correct propaganda to push to the far right is that they must empower Republicans because Democrats are dangerous. Their fellow Putin fans on the left know that the best propaganda to push to the left is that the Republicans are not dangerous, but the Democrats are, and even if you think the Republicans are dangerous, well, the Dems are too and there is no difference between the two parties anyway.
The real truth is that there is no difference between Putin defenders on the far right and far left. They both hate democracy and are willing to sacrifice democracy to get what they want.
dienne77 not only knee jerk defends Trump and Putin, but she is constantly making outrageous and entirely exaggerated (often simply made-up) claims against the democrats to demonize them and she constantly pushes the right wing narrative that it is the Democrats (and not Trump) who are dangerous and doing evil.
That is taking sides. Just like her defense of Putin is taking sides.
She isn’t bashing both sides. She is bashing ONE side.
No one on the far right ONLY bashes Republicans. Putin defenders on the far righr and left ONLY bash Democrats.
When dienne77 defends Putin, she is taking a strong stand FOR Putin and
AGAINST Ukraine, which is trying to be democratic.
There is no difference between dienne77 and someone on the far right. What they have in common — their love for Putin and willingness to sacrifice democracy — is far more than the Republicans and Dems have in common.
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The blog post links to this Science Direct article: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S075333222301853X The chart included in the article estimates 12, 739 excess deaths in the US in hospitals after they had taken chloroquine, much fewer in other countries. https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S075333222301853X-ga1_lrg.jpg The authors add: “Though our estimates are limited by imprecision, these estimates illustrate the hazard of drug repurposing with low-level evidence.”
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With all respect to Steve Ruis, whose contributions to the discussion here have been notable, it seems to me that the operant question is: “How many people died because the Trump administration failed to prioritize the public health?” Given trumps random mumbling, it strikes me that his real responsibility was to promote the public health in a way that minimized damage. He failed to take the responsibilities of a leader seriously, using the pandemic to divide and rule. Ultimately, this approach was responsible for much public misery and many died because of his combative relationship with the medical community. The popular support for his attitude continues to breed distrust of science and spawns a new generation of political leaders who seek to use natural distrust in b by others to rive a thin slice of the voting public for one purpose or another.
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More died under Biden! 99;8% survival you are all fools here. Vaccinated and boosted and dying. HCQ and ivermectin and zinc work, not the vaccines. Keep spewing bullshit 1/2 truth lies about drinking bleach which is a lie.
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Biden is one of our better presidents, he gets my vote. Voting for Marianne Williamson, for example, would be a vote for Trump, assuming he’s still in the run in a few months.
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Joe Jersey,
Biden has been a terrific president. If he gets Democratic control of the House and Senate, he will be an amazing president. He has FDR-size ambitions that have been stymied by the GOP. The two oldest members of the Supreme Court are Thomas and Alito. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if he were able to replace them?
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