I am a fan girl of Thom Hartmann. I don’t know how he manages to produce deeply thoughtful, deeply researched articles at a fast clip. This is another great one, about the use of threats, intimidation and violence to achieve rightwing goals.
He writes:
How would you react if one day you were sitting at home and the phone rang and when you picked it up you heard a man shout:
“Kill yourself now so we can save ammo!”
Moments later, an email arrives that says:
“I hope the Federal government hangs you and your daughter from the Capitol dome, you treasonous piece of shit! I pray that I will be sitting close enough to hear your necks snap.”
This is what happened to “Shaye” Moss and Ruby Freeman when Trump and Giuliani decided to blame Trump’s loss in Georgia on them, incorrectly claiming they were stuffing ballots for Biden. Just a few hours later, a mob with torches and a bullhorn showed up at Freeman’s house, although she’d already left after being warned by the FBI that she was on the “kill list” of a January 6th defendant they’d just arrested.
Mitt Romney, speaking with writer McKay Coppins for his book “Romney: A Reckoning,” told him the story of multiple Republican senators who were so terrified of violence at the hands of Trump’s fascist followers that they set aside their consciences and voted against convicting him of trying to blackmail Zelenskyy and, later, trying to overthrow the government of the United States.
“One Republican congressman confided to Romney that he wanted to vote for Trump’s second impeachment, but chose not to out of fear for his family’s safety. The congressman reasoned that Trump would be impeached by House Democrats with or without him — why put his wife and children at risk if it wouldn’t change the outcome?
“Later, during the Senate trial, Romney heard the same calculation while talking with a small group of Republican colleagues. When one senator, a member of leadership, said he was leaning toward voting to convict, the others urged him to reconsider. You can’t do that, Romney recalled someone saying. Think of your personal safety, said another. Think of your children. The senator eventually decided they were right.”
I know liberals and regular reporters in the media who are quite happy trash-talking Biden but are frankly terrified of the possibility that Trump or one of his high-profile followers might sic Trump’s fascist fan boys on them. As a result, they self-censor.
Similarly, multiple judges in the past few months have been given the chance to take Trump off the ticket because of his clear violation of the Constitution’s 14th Amendment by inciting and supporting an insurrection. Each one whiffed, and their legal logic was so thin it’s reasonable to conclude they’re also unwilling to have their families suffer the death threats and harassment that comes with being an “enemy of Trump.”
When the justices on the Colorado Supreme Court finally found the spine to vote him off the ballot, within hours the threats began. Now they’re having to pay for security for themselves and their family members, and go to sleep every night dreading the possibility that a lone wolf Trump supporter — like the one who broke into Paul Pelosi’s home and attacked him with a hammer — may be looking for them, too.
As NBC News reported, Trump’s followers reacted to the Colorado justices with predictable ferocity:
“’This ends when we kill these f–kers,’ a user wrote on a pro-Trump forum that was used by several Jan. 6 rioters.
“’Kill judges. Behead judges. Roundhouse kick a judge into the concrete,’ read a post on a fringe website. ‘Slam dunk a judge’s baby into the trashcan.’”
NBC’s Ryan Reilly added:
“The threats fit into a predictable and familiar pattern, seen time and time again after legal developments against Trump.”
Thus, Jack Smith was unable to find even four Supreme Court justices who were willing to grant cert to hear his challenge to Trump’s claim of absolute immunity from prosecution; terrified, they left the case with the DC Circuit Court of Appeals in the hope those judges will draw Trump’s ire — and his followers’ fire — thus diluting their own risk.
This is how fascism takes over a nation from within: with violence and the fear of violence.
I’ve been doing what is now the nation’s largest progressive radio/TV show for 20 years, reaching an estimated audience of 6 million a week. My writings here on HartmannReport.com are frequently reprinted by other progressive media.
The result is that I regularly get threats, although this is not a phenomenon shared by my rightwing colleagues. When I asked a couple of rightwing radio hosts I’ve known for years if they get threats of violence or death, each said, “No.”
There is no movement advocating political violence on either the American left or in the center. It is entirely confined to the American right, and the media needs to admit that and the FBI needs to recalibrate their efforts.
As fascism expert and historian Emilio Gentile noted about how fascist movements start and gain power:
“In the beginning there was violence.”
Violence and the threats of violence are the key to understanding fascists like Trump and the movements they inspire.
As any professional interrogator can tell you, deep down inside, all of us humans are really just scared little kids. The more we’re broken down by the circumstances of life or government policy, the less secure we feel, the harder it is to get by in life, and the more scared we become.
And, for many people, out of that fear comes the willingness — hell, the enthusiasm — to embrace “big daddy” in the form of a tough guy leader who promises to “restore” those who feel the fear back to their previous (or imagined future) positions of power, wealth, and authority.
This becomes particularly easy for fascist leaders when their followers are convinced that the nation’s government has become hopelessly corrupt, a project rightwing fossil fuel billionaires, rightwing media, and Republican politicians have been promoting here in the US for decades.
Ever since the Reagan Revolution, in their zeal to cut their own taxes and stop regulation of the fossil fuel and other polluting industries, they’ve been hammering the message that our government has been seized by “deep state socialists” bent on destroying our country.
Republicans and the billionaires who own them have repeated this conspiracy theory so often for the last few decades that an entire religion, Qanon, as arisen around it.
This belief, that much of what our government does is illegitimate or even malicious, makes it easy for low-information voters to bind themselves to a fascist “reform movement” that promises better times ahead.
As fascist followers act out their violent threats against their leaders’ perceived enemies, they get an inner sense of strength and the feeling that they’ve joined a community: that diminishes their own fear for a short while.
The more an “other” — political enemies; racial, religious, and gender minorities; women — are blamed for the ills of the nation, the more vigilante-style violence against them is justified and the more violent the future becomes.
When the state pushes back against that violence, as America did after January 6th, the calls for increased violence become even louder. Trump is practically shouting “kill them!” with a bullhorn and even our court system is afraid to stop him by throwing him into jail as they would have any other common criminal who encouraged such violence against judges, juries, witnesses, court officials, and their families.
Calling people to violence by denouncing those being scapegoated is central to fascist politics.
Mussolini used to feature Italian “whistleblowers” who, like Joe McCarthy here back in the day, would call out “corrupt” government officials whose only real crime was not supporting him. Hitler had every radio station in Germany play phone calls from local citizens who denounced their neighbors for sympathizing with Jews, socialists, or trade union organizers.
Once publicly targeted in these ways, mobs or lone-wolf assassins would descend on these people’s homes. After a few well-publicized beatings and killings, everybody from media figures to politicians to judges backed away from trying to stop fascists or even hold them accountable.
When he was rising to power in Hungary, for example, Victor Orbàn’s right-hand-man led a torchlight march into a Budapest Roma neighborhood threatening to burn the “gypsies” — who fled in terror — out of their homes. More recently, Orbán started arresting people who “defamed” him on social media.
Soon, nobody in or out of the government is willing to stand up to the fascists; it’s too dangerous and too exhausting. Being the object of regular threats of violence or death is not something anybody would volunteer for unless they saw the stakes as being very, very important.
This is what Trump and the GOP he’s captured are working toward: the silencing of dissent and accountability, replacing them with fear and a guilty complicity. Just take a look at the state of social media today, particularly Xitter and Facebook, which have dialed back on their content moderation and thus loosed the fascists on anybody who dares criticize Trump or the GOP.
As Michael Ebner wrote in his book “Ordinary Violence in Mussolini’s Italy”:
“The Fascist state ruled Italy violently, projecting its coercive power deeply and diffusely into society through confinement, imprisonment, low-level physical assaults, economic deprivations, intimidation, discrimination and other quotidian forms of coercion.
“Moreover, by promoting denunciatory practices, the regime cemented the loyalties of ‘upstanding’ citizens while suppressing opponents, dissenters and social outsiders.”
Trump is telling us right up right now that he intends to rule as a fascist if he’s able to either win or seize power through other means in 2024. Informally, his militia followers will be showing up at polling places next fall to intimidate voters; they see themselves as the shock troops of the new GOP.
Formally, he’s planning on ending your and my protections against state-sponsored police violence, which he openly intends to deploy against anybody who opposes him and his regime:
“I am also going to indemnify our police officers. This is a big thing, and it’s a brand-new thing, and I think it’s so important. I’m going to indemnify, through the federal government, all police officers and law enforcement officials throughout the United States from being destroyed by the radical left for taking strong actions against crime.”
When Trump says “crime,” of course, he’s using the same fascist-speak that Hitler, Mussolini, Putin, and Orbán use that means “minorities” and “political enemies.”
And his followers are listening and acting.
The Anti-Defamation League published a report finding there have been more than 170 murders committed by rightwing (and, I’d add, therefore probably Trump-aligned) extremists over the past five years; only 3 deaths could be attributed to people “on the left.” None of the victims were “criminals.”
So, how does a nation deal with an epidemic of violent rhetoric and actual violent attempts?
Fascists are always a minority when they rise to power in a country. They’re experts at manipulating democratic systems — particularly through things like voter suppression, gerrymandering, voter roll purges, and voter intimidation — to seize power, and then corrupting the existing systems and laws in ways that keep them in power.
At the moment, the fascist movement in the US is very much confined within the GOP and aligned with fringe militia and fundamentalist religious factions.
Merrick Garland should have come down on them hard as soon as he assumed his job as Attorney General; because he dithered for two full years until he was shamed into appointing Jack Smith by the January 6th Committee, Trump’s fascist followers have gained considerable momentum.
By continuing to refuse to investigate or prosecute the people who are still in power and conspired with Trump to overthrow our government, Garland further empowers America’s homegrown fascist movement. This must stop, and news that the FBI has finally acquired some of the content of Congressman Scott Perry’s phone is a positive sign, albeit too little and too late.
But the ultimate victory over fascism in America has to be in the ballot box rather than the courthouse. Americans who believe in democracy and reject strongman oligarchy must turn out next November in overwhelming numbers and so shatter the GOP that the party will be forced to reinvent itself in a way that includes purging itself of its fascist-supporting members.
And we damn well better succeed, because fascists never give you a second chance to defeat them or hold them to account. If we try to stop them and fail, Trump has already told us he’ll have a nice cold cell waiting for you and me in the concentration camps he promises to build to hold “millions.”
There is pretty much nothing more important now than waking up our friends and neighbors to this threat…

We are always, always, always teetering on the brink of a descent into rule by strongman. And that rule takes its power from the complicity that comes from fear and from the will to power of some of the weak.
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“Confined to the GOP”- the majority of Governors and the majority of state legislatures are Republican. That means that GOP laws and their policies govern the people in the majority of states!
Approx. 13 hours ago, the Catholic Vote political director who lives in Ohio,
expressed that the organization was “overjoyed” at the House vote (along party lines- 65-28) which was about gender affirming care. The Catholic Conference of Ohio testified as expected on the preceding bill that provoked the current vote.
Catholic Vote’s view about Orban…
The Catholic Church is not without resources, dioceses in Ohio spent $900,000 to deny Ohioans democracy, less than 6 mos., ago. The Catholic Church does not fail consistently as in the case of gender affirming care, the right of women to live and school choice.
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Linda, here’s a link to Jessica Valenti’s Abortion Every Day site, where she discusses the impact of the Ascension hospital chain on women’s health care. One in seven hospitals is affiliated with the Catholic church nationwide, and its religious tenets are imposed on patients whether or not they are practitioners.
The very same day that Yeni’s story was shared with the world, National Nurses United (NNU) released a report showing how Ascension is fueling the U.S. maternal mortality crisis. In fact, NNU called Ascension, which has 140 hospitals in 19 states, “one of the nation’s worst offenders for closing obstetrics units.” From their report:
Ascension, which claims to have a mission that pays “special attention to those who are poor and vulnerable,” reported a net income of over $5.7 billion in 2021, with a CEO who made more than $13 million that same year. They’re the second-largest and wealthiest Catholic health system in America.
https://jessica.substack.com/p/the-catholic-hospital-system-killing
The reference she make to “Yeni” is from a New Yorker piece about a young Texas woman who died in pregnancy because her body could not withstand its strain.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/01/15/abortion-high-risk-pregnancy-yeni-glick
It was also a Catholic hospital which refused to treat Brittany Watts, who subsequently miscarried at home alone. Watts was charged with “abuse of a corpse”; the police were called by a nurse who cared for Watts. A grand jury today declined to indict Watts.
Apologies, Diane, if this seems off thread, or not an issue for the blog. But fascism thrives by removing self-determination; in this case for half of our population. We can discern its approach wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.
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Thanks very much, Christine.
If not for deliberate omission about the right wing, Catholic, political powerhouse, I firmly believe, women, LGBTQ, public schools and democracy would be fighting from a much stronger position.
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“Catholic activist/Freedom Caucus contractor sentenced to two years of prison for death threats to HRC (Human Rights Campaign) and Maryland state Representative,” Jan 11, 2024
I’ll provide more details below in the thread.
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And just yesterday… the thugish, barbarian unleashes his henchmen.
“The threat came the morning after Mr. Trump again attacked Justice Engoron on Truth Social, his social media site, saying that the judge and the New York attorney general, who brought the fraud case, were trying to “screw me.” And it came just days after the police in Washington were called to the home of the federal judge overseeing Mr. Trump’s election interference case.”
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Everyone who is anti-Trump and consequential is getting bomb threats, vicious emails, doxxing (publication of their home address), or “swatting” (false reports that send police or fire trucks to their home.) Police rushed to Jack Smith after receiving a call saying that he shot his wife. False. Waste of public resources. Mean.
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Everyone who is anti-Trump and consequential is getting bomb threats, vicious emails, doxxing (publication of their home address), or “swatting” (false reports that send police or fire trucks to their home.)
What am I, chopped liver?
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You write that Garland “dithered” for two years before appointing Jack Smith.
This is a slander. The DOJ was investigating the whole time.
I venture to say you have little idea of how DOJ investigates complex cases. Which is important. Because DOJ doesn’t talk about such investigations. I lived through the Operation Greylord investigation, admittedly a very different case, but one actually less complex than January 6. And that case was investigated for years with almost no one in the Chicago legal community, let alone the public at large, knowing it was happening.
But by the time Smith came on board, thousands of witnesses had been interviewed and had testified in front of the grand jury. This is how complex cases are made. Not in public, but secretly.
No one was dithering. They were doing their jobs and doing them well. Smart lawyers know this.
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Is there nothing to be done, when the safety of the country and of our allies are both at stake, to move with more alacrity? It would have been an excellent thing if some ONE of the many charges against Trump had gone to court before this election season began. I wonder, for example, about the classified documents case. Isn’t this fairly straightforward? The cases against people like Reality Winner went quickly. In May of 2017, The Intercept notified the FBI that she had passed along classified documents, and she was arrested at the beginning of June of 2017. The feds didn’t dither around about making an arrest. Surely stacks and stacks of boxes of documents, many of the highest level of security classification, sitting around in a bathroom and a ballroom, as well as some of them having been shown to acquaintances lacking security clearances, merit immediate arrest. I would be fine with Trump sitting in jail awaiting trial. That’s where he belongs.
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First, he, like anyone else, is presumed innocent unless and until he’s found guilty. This is called due process. Yet people demand defendants be imprisoned immediately without the niceties of a trial.
Second, have you been following the documents case? Judge Cannon is in the tank. You really want to push forward and watch her toss the case entirely? I’m sure she’ll cheerfully oblige you.
Third, where is the most important case, the one actually about January 6? D.C., with Judge Chutkan. Who’s been shutting the defense down at every turn. I expect the D.C. Circuit will laugh the immunity claims out of court, probably within the next couple of weeks.
So, trial in D.C., with a D.C judge and a D.C. jury? That’s what Smith wants, and so should we.
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Both cases are important. Yes, I recognize that there is a tendency to overclassify documents, but theft of classified material is no laughing matter. People die because sources, materials, and techniques are leaked. Reality winner was immediately arrested for mishandling classified material and denied bail TWICE because of the seriousness of her offence.
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I, too, complained about Garland’s delay, but your comments, based on actual experience and expertise, give me serious pause. I suspect that you know what you are talking about, jsr.
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A trial can be torpedoed by a judge. And there’s nothing, really, that can be done. Because it would require going to war with the judge.
In any system where you have multiple judges, such as federal courts (most of them, anyway), everyone knows who are the prosecution judges, the defense judges, and the judges who follow the law without favoring either side. Smith would be hard pressed to do better than Chutkan, or the D.C. Circuit.
And that’s the case that’s the most on point with what has to be addressed here: The fact of the insurrection, the players, and Trump. That’s why it’s often referred to as “The January 6th case”.
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I’m just trying to understand this, jsr. In May of 2017, The Intercept notified the FBI that Reality Winner had passed along classified documents, and she was arrested at the beginning of June of 2017. It took DAYS for them to move. And then she was denied bail TWICE because of the seriousness of her offence. Trump had tons more classified documents, and ones with higher levels of classification, sitting in boxes in ballrooms and in freaking bathrooms and in his office at his club, and he was showing them to people without security clearances. And yet it took forever for them to move. So what is the difference? Aside from there being one law for little people and other for the rich and powerful? And what sort of mockery does this make of the words carved over the west entrance to the Supreme Court?
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jsr’s viewpoint- question mark
Jsr is quick to throw shade in multiple areas with biting condescension. In this and prior threads, jsr writes what appears to be a defense of the DOJ. Most of the readers of the blog assume that the DOJ appointed under a Democratic administration recognizes Trump belongs in court. So, we lead ourselves to believe jsr is on the side of democracy Appearances can be deceiving. jsr was unwilling to countenance any criticism of the Catholic church’s politicking for the GOP. (Review Catholic organizations in Christine’s post above.)
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JSR is quick to provide a welcome insider’s view of the workings of state and federal prosecutors’ offices. I am grateful to him for these, even when I have further questions. E.g., why Reality Winner and not Donnie Boy, who took his first trip to Moscow, at the invitation of the Russian ambassador to the United States, on an airplane operated by the KGB, way back in the 1980s?
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Bob Shepherd
For every former DOJ lawyer with intricate knowledge of the working of the DOJ, that asserts the institution functioned perfectly.That it was diligently investigating what appeared to be an attempted coup on the part of the President to stay in power. There were others also with intricate knowledge of the DOJ who asked where was the DOJ. Where was it, that it only acted after the embarrassing details were revealed in the Jan 6 hearings and report. 2years after the attempted coup.
Details that had to be known by DOJ long before, if they were investigating.
If there is one thing the Mueller investigation proved, it was that those who try to place institutions above and beyond Human / Political influence are full of it .
On many levels Mueller was chosen by Rosenstein to “Land the Plane “. Not because Mueller was corrupt but because he was known. Rosenstein as a Politico article said just weeks after the appointment: “had selected the only man in America who could stand there with a straight face and say that he could not prove the NFL or the Ravens had seen the Ray Rice videos that everyone in America had seen. Not one but two different cam videos”.
In an investigation that clearly called for following the money Mueller didn’t touch it. When Trump came down that escalator in 2015 (I think! not being a mind reader ) Trump did not think he had a prayer to be President. He was doing Putin’s disruptive bidding, soiling Clinton and the process in exchange for continued Russian investment opportunities. And it took off from there. But Mueller stayed in his cage never following the money.
And when we finally heard from Mueller we saw what Rosenstein had to know in May of 2017. Mueller was clearly in decline and would not be able to vigorously defend his final report in a Public Political forum. As Rosenstein stood holding hands with Barr to undermine Mueller’s entire report.
So much for the our institutions being above influence.
Perhaps decades from now in death bed confessions and books the truth about the delay will come out. Did Garland and DOJ “decide to let sleeping dogs lie” only to discover the Orange Dog was rabid and not sleeping. Or was DOJ diligently on it from Jan 7 2021.
Either is possible but let us not pretend that humans with varying motives and reasoning, sometimes political are not making decisions in bureaucracies from DOJ, to DOL, to DOE…
History says otherwise. The best we can do in a democracy is have oversight and sunlight.
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Let me explain what Garland has noted before, clearly, I thought.
To date, there have been over 1200 convictions out of January 6. Those were obtained by DOJ, which some here apparently believe happened with no participation by DOJ.
Every one of those defendants was investigated by DOJ. DOJ handled interviews and investigations of these defendants. These investigations and interviews provided a wealth of information which was used to identify and charge higher-ups. This is exactly the same method DOJ uses in organized crime prosecutions. And January 6, despite its shambolics, was an organized crime.
Merrick Garland has stated this on multiple occasions. Publicly. On-camera. The investigation has been covered by hundreds of media organizations, so this is saying nothing more than what is in the public record.
Having spent 12 years as a state prosecutor, including an assignment to the Organized Crime Unit, I have tried to point out how such crimes are investigated and the well-known procedures used in the process.
I stopped posting here some time ago because, among other reasons, threads like this can devolve quickly into personal attacks. (I am not blameless in this, hence my previous decision to stop posting here.)
I am reminded of the wisdom of that decision.
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Yes, but once again, It took only a few days after the FBI was notified by the Intercept that Reality Winner had passed on classified documents for them to arrest her, and she was denied bail TWICE because of the seriousness of the crime. She awaited her trial in jail. Donald Trump had far more classified documents and ones of higher levels of classification dealing with far more serious matters sitting on a stage in a ballroom and in a bathroom, as well as in his Mar-a-lago office, and he was showing them to people without security clearances and bragging about them and refusing to return them and the FBI knew this for MONTHS before doing anything about it, and since then he has walked free.
Can you see how a lot of people might conclude that we have two systems: the justice system for ordinary people and the “Just Us” system for the wealthy and powerful. If a credible report were made that anyone commenting here had classified documents illegally, he or she would doubtless experience what Reality Winner did.
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Those are two different cases. Two different people, two different sets of facts, two unique sets of circumstances that have to be addressed individually.
Is every murder case the same as every other? Every defendant? Of course not.
Comparing two things that are not alike yields faulty conclusions.
Consider: How many people would recognize Reality Winner at the Canadian border? How many would recognize Trump? One person is an escape risk. The other isn’t.
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Trump has spent an entire life breaking the law and buying his way out of any consequent difficulties. Totally Teflon.
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And when push finally does come to shove with Trump, if it ever does, it would not surprise me at all if he and Melania boarded their plane and headed to Sochi.
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After making a lot of preparations, ofc, with a little help from their friends.
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Is every murder case the same as every other? Every defendant? Of course not.
No, they aren’t. Some are wealthy and powerful.
Is every case of people raping minors the same? Of course not. Some are Jeffrey Epstein and have lots and lots of powerful clients and so are charged with a single crime for which they receive a sentence that allows them to do work release at their offices and to have conjugal visits with various women.
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And yes, these situations were not exactly alike. Trump’s crimes were much more dangerous for our country because the documents he stole illegally were more important to our security. War planning scenarios against Iran, for example.
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Please, jsrtheta, don’t leave. Whenever I see personal attacks, I wince. I don’t like them. I want civil discussion and disagreement. I can’t stop it as the comments are usually posted for 2-3 hours before I see them.
Take it in stride. I enjoy your comments.
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I strongly second that. It’s great to have your voice here, jsr!
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I’m not going anywhere.
Thanks for the kind words.
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Joel
Thanks for making your points.
The “DOJ insider,” jsr, and others can read the Jan. 11, 2024 press release from the Office of Public Affairs, US Dept. of Justice, about the sentencing of Adam Michael Nettina, “Maryland man sentenced…”
The Joemygod.com website alleges Nettina blogged for Catholic Vote and was a contractor for the Freedom Caucus.
Commenter, jsr, In a prior thread, was brutal in trying to shut down a conversation about the right wing politicking of the Catholic Church. Either it’s ignorance about the Nettina case and Stefanik’s false claims about the federal government persecuting Catholics (Meet the Press) or, it is spin’s ugly side infiltrating under a false flag.
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Linda, who clearly loathes me, accuses me of being in the tank for the Catholic church, and cites my comments about it based on something Christine wrote.
I looked at what Christine wrote in this thread, and I don’t know what she is referring to. I will tell you some truth, though, which is that I left the Catholic Church when I was 15 and never looked back. And personally, I have very little tolerance for any organized religion. Heck, I don’t even like
disorganized ones.
Otherwise, I am baffled by Linda’s new campaign against me, a person she doesn’t know.
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jsr
You have a convenient memory. I’ll refresh it, 1-7-2024, “Why Does Meet the Press Love MAGA,” Diane Ravitch Blog comment thread.
You impugned my sanity and you don’t know me.
You appear to me to be like those (many) who are unable to separate the demographic segment of Catholics from the right wing politics of the Catholic Church. Reiterating for the umpteenth time, about 6 mos. ago, three archdioceses spent $900,000 to destroy democracy in Ohio (Issue 1 on the ballot).
Your revelation about your personal experience is immaterial. Obviously, you are welcome to share it but it holds no interest to me.
Among the top 5 events that profoundly damaged democracy in the US was Pope John Paul II’s demand that right wing Catholics impose their religion on citizens of nations, using the government to do so. IMO, men like Robert P George, William Barr, Leonard Leo, some members of the Jones Day law firm, lawyers at Becket law, Tim Busch, staff at Catholic Vote, some administrators and faculty at Catholic universities e.g. Georgetown and Notre Dame, some Republican Catholic politicians, etc. used John Paul’s call to impose an authoritarian theocratic patriarchy.
I have provided evidence at the blog about the right wing politicking associated with the church and members who self admit to successfully advancing their faith politically.
For an introduction to the university issue, I recommend Father Dennis Dease’ posted article at St. Thomas university, “Nurturing Our Catholic Character.” As a reminder, Georgetown hired Ilya Shapiro of the Koch network for a top position in its law school. Even after the Ketanji Brown tweet, Georgetown did not rescind its job offer to him.
I will make the same request of you that I made to Bob. When you don’t know facts to contradict mine about right wing Catholic politicking, refrain from personal attacks against me when I write about them.
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Okay, you’re the roughest, toughest scourge of the Catholic Church ever. We’re all VERY IMPRESSED. Allow me to present my rebuttal: I DON’T GIVE A GOOD GOD DAMN.
This is your obsession, not mine. Kindly keep me out of it. I have spent the last half-century blissfully not thinking about the Catholic Church at all. Kindly leave me out of your campaign.
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As I remember it, JSR reacted to the phrases “to destroy democracy in Ohio” as being over the top. Of course, there was not an attempt by the church to end ALL democracy in Ohio. The church spent money on a campaign to increase the requirements for passing a referendum to amend the Constitution. This is nefarious indeed. It is antidemocratic indeed. And it’s insidious because the reason is that they wanted to block referendums that would go against Catholic teaching–ones protecting the rights to abortion and gay marriages, for example. So, it would have been more accurate to say that “The Church supported a major anti-democratic initiative in Ohio.”
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Readers can decide for themselves if jsr’s reply confirms comments made about him/her.
An explanation about how democracy can prevail in a gerrymandered theocracy… jsr won’t be giving it a thought.
So, Bob, fine tuning statements is critical when it describes the political clout of the Catholic church? We can agree to disagree that Issue 1’s passage would have effectively ended democracy in Ohio and, for my side of the argument I will provide as examples, the abortion law passed by the house and senate, school choice in the state, marijuana prohibition, public union collective bargaining,…
In the past, when you disagreed with me, you employed insults and justified it as “satire.” I presume it’s progress for you,
now, to use your red pen to evaluate degrees of attacks on democracy and show an evaluation card score of, for example, 8 instead of 9.
How about we all admit, if an organization, other than the Catholic Church was putting women’s lives at risk, denying dignity and rights to the LGBTQ community, etc., the response would be very different. We know the response is different when the billionaires behind school choice are the target (does Bill Gates come to mind?)
We can be thankful that Catholic organizations don’t run hospitals across the nation, that Catholic Conferences haven’t paired up with the Koch network to get school choice, that Nate Hockman’s quote about a greased path to political jobs for right wing Catholics is wrong, that Hillsdale’s curriculum reflects an exclusive domain of Christian thought not Catholic influence, it makes it easier to be critical of the college without getting blowback.
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You know when the DOJ stared to move on the two indictments of Trump , just how? Exactly when did they start questioning witnesses who were part of a well orchestrated conspiracy. You don’t have to link the guy who defecated on the desk to fake electors. But if you can’t say when the investigation was started into Trump’s clear efforts to overthrow an election. You also can’t say whether a year or two was wasted either. Just because you assert how DOJ investigations work. Date please? I suspect when the books get written on death beds we will find out.
What did not happen is a John Mitchel who overturned the decision of Former Attorney General Ramsey Clark , DOJ and a separate 200 investigator commission on violence that interviewed 1400 witnesses and declared the Chicago Convention a Police riot. Prosecuting the Chicago 7/8 within months of taking office. In March of 1969 he had indictments. The trial began by September.
What did not happen is Bill Barr who totally twisted the report of the Justice department appointed special council. Followed by the appointment of a Special Council to investigate the Special Council. Who spent 4 years manufacturing a conspiracy and was laughed out of court in record time by two Juries. While he and Barr ignored evidence of further wrong doing by Trump from Italian authorities.
Would you like a few more examples of how DOJ works when Republicans want it to. The Republican motto .
” I may not have a case. But if I tell a lie and make it outrageous enough the press will repeat it and the people will believe it.”
Try Vince Foster on for size. After 5 investigations into his suicide lead to a perjury trap over oral sex. Something that was none of the peoples business. Something I think was not even Paula Jones’s business. Most I venture a guess feel sex between consenting adults is a private affair. Even under the White House Desk.
Starr takes that page right out of Gobbles. Insisting after he closes his investigation that all the known facts and the absence of proof is no reason to assume there was no conspiracy to murder Vince Foster.
And Brett Kavanaugh the rapist who set that illegal perjury trap is now a member of the Taliban 6.
Monica should not have been questioned without her lawyer in the first place. Janet Reno should have appointed a prosecutor to investigate the Independent Council who clearly participated in a conspiracy with the Paula Jones team.
But do get back to us on the exact date that the DOJ started to seriously investigate what the entire country saw. From fake electors ,to calls to Governors and Secretaries of State, to refusal to call off the Fascists engaged in insurrection.
Date please! Till then I say DOJ did nothing.
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You sure do write a disjointed rant.
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I don’t recall asking for your opinion. Like the dozens of television lawyers with far more credentials who told all how the system works and got it all wrong, being pompous and full of yourself doesn’t make you right. News flash Diane’s blog is not network television get in line for a try out.
But first please tell us your insider knowledge of when DOJ started their investigation of Trump actions on Jan6
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It will no doubt shock you to learn DOJ doesn’t tip me off to anything.
Now, if you have another question, have at it. But please stick to one subject.
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Joel
Jsr’s tone in this and an earlier thread is a red flag. Your opinion regarding jsr is likely spot on.
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Thank you for this, jrstheta. I have read similar comments by lawyers with experience in such matters at news article comment threads several times. Cutting corners to accelerate the process simply results in a case that doesn’t stand up in court. Perp gets off, and public is reinforced in its distrust of public institutions. It’s one of the ways would-be fascists hollow out democracies from within: by taking advantage of our “wheels of justice grind slowly but exceedingly fine” feature, while MSM stokes alarm without going into details of process, and social media is calling for heads to roll tomorrow.
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Thanks for the comment.
This “case” (in reality a set of interconnected cases) is a pretty unwieldy beast. And for the D.C. case, there is one prosecuting authority vs. hundreds of defense attorneys, each focused only on their client.
And there are no do-overs after the trial for the prosecution. “Not guilty” means that’s it for DOJ. Whereas after conviction a defendant’s not out of options: direct appeal, intermediate appeal, possible Supreme Court appeal, collateral attack, post-conviction remedies, habeas corpus.
Which is the way it’s supposed to be, for sure. But it makes for an unprecedented, unwieldy mess.
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I haven’t had any death threats yet, but I have had a few veiled threats and several criticisms for the supported opinions I’ve posted on my blogs or on Quora about Traitor Trump
My weapon of choice is the pen. The veiled threats and criticisms that are almost all related to Traitor Trump are a results of what I’ve written and shared through social media.
One email to a post I wrote on one of my blogs blasting Traitor Trump, that came from one of his MAGARINOs, told me they had 20 pounds of evidence proving Biden won the 2020 election by fraud.
This anonymous MAGRINO troll wanted my address so they could mail me that 20 pounds of proof.
I replied to their comment that I wasn’t about to reveal where I lived to someone like them because if they really had 20 pounds of evidence that would hold up in court, it would be the hands of Traitor Trump’s lawyers instead.
Yes, I said to that MAGARINO troll, “Traitor Trump”.
A few days later, I got a unsigned note in the mail (postmarked from Florida) telling me they found my address anyway, but they didn’t include the 20 pounds of evidence or reveal who they were.
The first thriller in a series I started in 2018, that started from a prompt in my VA PTSD writing support group, has had a few 1 -star reviews pointing out how unfair I was to Trump and conservatives.
I published a post about that, too, if anyone is interested in what these MAGARINOs wrote.
https://www.lloydlofthouse.com/2023/12/accused-of-attacking-trump-and.html
From the response for that thriller, I think there aren’t many Trumplicans that read and the few that do are swamped by those that are not MAGARINOs.
Like their little imperfect antichrist, they also do not read much.
The first thriller in that series came out July 2021, and has 240 Amazon ratings. Only 6% gave it 1-star and most of those were from Trumplicans defending him and criticizing me for daring to write anything in my novel that was negative about their little ruthless, serial liying, crime family boss.
I’ve never lost any sleep over the veiled threats and criticisms.
Still, I have a weapons safe holding several firearms and boxes of ammo, but not because of Traitor Trump’s Trolls. Since I’m also a former US Marine and combat vet living with a bad case of PTSD, I’m hyper vigilant and sleep with a shotgun, but that isn’t anything new. I’ve slept with that shogun (and knives, pepper spray, or other firearms) close to my bed for decades.
I was sleeping with firearms and knives in Vietnam, too. Not next to my sleeping bag and cot. I slept with them inside my sleeping back so I could react faster when our camp was hit, which happened often, even if they never did get past the concertina wire and bunkers. Most of the time, it rained mortar shells or shoulder fired rockets, and/or snipers were taking potshots at whoever was seen moving around inside.
I learned in the Marines and in Vietnam that the only thing to fear is fear itself. If we let fear take over our lives, it will destroy us without the fascists firing a shot.
If they come for me, I want to be ready and fast enough to fight back, so even if they get me, I’ll get one or more of them first.
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Every Trumper has evidence that the election was stolen but they never produce it in court. Sidney Powell made that claim but she had nothing. And pleaded guilty to lying. Rudy Guiliani made that claim but never took it to court. So many liars. Rudy still claims he has evidence. Waiting.
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I have the solution right here. When I’m right, I can usually feel it. This is right:
When I read this post before going to school this morning, I was afraid. I felt terrorized by the reasonable fears of the public and private workers and volunteers under threat. I evoke the word “terrorized” for a reason. What Trump and his henchmen are doing is terrorism. When someone commits an act of terrorism against a public official in my government, I am a victim of terrorism too. We, United States citizens, are all victims of terrorism. We the people have an enemy. His name is Donald Trump.
This is NOT without precedent. There have been times in American history when an enemy of the state has threatened us all. There is a way to deal with it. That way is recorded in the history of our greatest presidents.
First, some background. In 1803, securing the vital port of New Orleans from France was a matter of national security and commerce. President Jefferson was torn by his love of the Constitution and love of his country. Fifteen million dollars for a purchase of land exceeded constitutional allowance. Jefferson, along with Madison and others, decided that a constitutional amendment was not needed, and they went forward with the deal anyway. It was simply the right thing to do. The situation called for it.
Now, to the heart of the solution. In 1863, the United States was at war with an enemy. Confederate enemies of the state wanted to assassinate the president, burn down the White House, and destroy the Capitol and the United States. President Lincoln had to arrest the mayor of Baltimore for impeding the war effort. The Habeus Corpus Suspension Act enabled him to do so. It was a violation of the Constitution. Congress and Lincoln had to break the law to save democracy: “Four score and seven years ago, our fathers brought forth on this continent, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now, we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure.” Lincoln had to upend the Constitution to save the country.
President Biden is faced with the same conundrum in 2024. He must press Congress to give him the power to arrest and detain enemies of the state without habeus corpus. The courts cannot do it on their own, as they are victims of terrorism. The president must step into the moment and become a great president right now. Congresspeople who fear for their lives must step into the moment and help him arrest and detain those who are terrorizing them. They must free themselves. Without due process of law. Arrest Donald Trump and anyone making threats of violence. Throw them in jail, and keep them there until they are no longer a terrorist threat. It is necessary for the preservation of a nation conceived and dedicated to the proposition that all people are created equal.
Some might argue that doing so would empower his supporters to commit further acts of violence. To them I say, acts of violence are difficult to commit from behind bars. Others might say that violating the Constitution to save it is a loss of the rule of law. I say it’s been done before. Some might say Trump was president and has the privilege to do whatever he wants. I say he revoked his own privileges when he caused violence against the United States.
I’m not going to a concentration camp. It’s not happening again. Suspend habeus corpus. Arrest and detain Donald Trump and all who make threats of violence in support of him. You and I can make a difference right now. Call the White House and demand action. Write Congress and show them the way out of their terrors. Contact members of the media and show them a safe exit. We do not need to be victims. We must fight this war. It is a war. We must win. Suspend habeus corpus, so that government of the people, by the people, and for the people shall not perish from the earth.
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Left coast
Thank you for writing your call to action.
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U.S. Const. art. I, §9, cl. 2.
The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.”
I’m pretty sure that when they wrote of “Cases of Rebellion,” they meant open, violent rebellion, as in an outbreak of Civil War (so, Lincoln was acting within the law).
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The definitions of rebellion and insurrection are not necessarily so clear cut. The Whiskey Rebellion was called a rebellion, but wasn’t it more like insurrection by the standards we previously discussed? The safety of the nation’s legislators and judges is in danger. The intent is to seize control for power within the nation. There’s even a fight over taxes involved.
What more is required for Trump’s actions to be rebellion? Carrying a Confederate battle flag into a besieged Capitol? Or does everyone invading have to wear a grey uniform, a grey fur, QAnon Shaman uniform and be organized into brigades?
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I am reminded that last year the head of the Republican Party of Texas Xweeted that it was time for the state to consider seceding from the Union. And there was, predictably, a deluge of responses from Texas Repugnicans saying that it was far past time.
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By the way, I’m pretty sure the X in Xitter is pronounced appropriately/ /sh/.
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YES! GOOD CALL, LCT!
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That was my guess, too.
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LCT,
My view is that Twitter should be called Twitter. Ignore the silly renaming.
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Diane,
It would be pleasant to ignore Elon Musk completely.
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Can’t ignore him. There’s that pervasive Musky smell.
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That’s not musk you smell. It’s Xit.
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OMG. You’re right!
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Violence and threats play a key role in Right Wing political strategy. There’s no better example than that of the “Sturmabteiling” (“Storm Detachment”/”Storm Troopers”) in Adolph Hitler’s rise to power in Germany.
Many today ask how the intelligent German people could have “fallen for” Hitler’s bombastic rhetoric and hateful message. The answer is that they didn’t “fall for” his message — the majority were intimidated into supporting it.
The early tool for this intimidation was the Sturmabteilung who became known as “The Brownshirts” (“Braunhemden”) because they wore brown military-style shirts. Hitler gathered the Brownshirts around him in the early 1920s. They brutally beat up anyone who heckled him at his speeches; they vandalized their homes and businesses. It wasn’t long before few dared speak out against Hitler. Criticism was replaced by “enthusiasm” for his hateful speeches and personal appearances.
By 1933, the Brownshirts numbered more than 2,000,000, outnumbering even the legitimate German army. With a private and violent army that size, it’s little wonder that Hitler was named Prime Minister that year and was on his way to becoming the tyrant of Germany.
Allowed to go unchecked, violence will rule.
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States should have nipped this in the bud with mass arrests when the Trumpanzee SA first started showing up at state capitols armed to the teeth. Insane that they/we didn’t.
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People should read the novel “The Oppermanns,” if they haven’t already. Written in 1933 by an author within the belly of the beast [Lion Feuchtwanger] at that time. Quikwrit’s historical summary is given perspective and understanding when activated by interconnected characters spanning aristocratic to working classes, each with their own story– essentially the tale of which threats/ rumors/ actions they witnessed etc [all happening within 4 short months] finally caused them to flee (or stay), believe (or deny)– and that of those who were not in a position to choose at all.
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Trump tried to weaponize the military to act as an SA. Esper and Milley, to their everlasting credit, refused to do so. Barr initially went along, sending out what, after Russia’s using the tactic in the Donbas and Crimea, “little green men,” i.e., federal police without insignia. But he pretty soon called that off. He knows how freaking illegal it was.
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Your point is so important, Quickwrit. Give these people the slightest bit of power, and they will turn to the tried-and-true tactic of instilling fear to achieve compliance.
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Shortly after the United States intervened to oust the existing government of Iraq and install Saddam Hussein, Hussein held a meeting of high Baath Party officials. And during that meeting, he read out names, and his goons came into the auditorium, took those named to the hallway outside the room, and shot them.
His message was quite clear. Absolute compliance. This is how Fascists work. And it’s what Trump has promised. Look at what happened with the state official who dared to report the Covid death and hospitalization numbers. She was fired and then police knocked down her door waving guns in front of her kids. This is what happens when there is noncompliance in a Fascist state.
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Jan. 11, 2024- Various media reported that Adam Michael Nettina was sentenced to prison for threats against the Human Rights Campaign and a Maryland state delegate. A Virginia delegate also received profane-laced communication from him during the same time period.
The Maryland delegate had posted a message of support in honor of Trans Day Visibility and the Va. delegate had expressed support for the cause of LGBTQ.
Mainstream media’s reporting did not include the following information found by an internet source. The internet source provided screen shot documentation supporting what he wrote and he contacted NOM, to get a response about Nettina’s work history. NOM’s reply was posted. The following is alleged.
Nettina blogged for the far-right group, Catholic Vote. Catholic Vote was the one-time home of Thomas Peters, former communications director for the National Organization for Marriage ( Robert P George was one of the founders). Seven years ago, Peters authored a Catholic Vote post about the Pulse massacre titled, “We have nothing to apologize for.”
The internet article title is, “Catholic activist/Freedom Caucus contractor gets two years for death threats to HRC and Maryland state delegate.”
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Corrections- Joemygod.com (source of the internet info.)reported Catholic Vote was contacted about Nettina’s work history not NOM. Joemygod.com reported Nettina wrote the article about Pulse, not Peter.
Joemygod.com alleges, “Nettina wrote on social media that he had “begun the formal process of getting you (references the Maryland delegate) excommunicated …’ “.
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I think there is a simple solution that is alluded to here EXCEPT that even the folks who suggest it seem to be saying it is unprecedented.
Trump is an insurrectionist and cannot legally run for president.
If the Supreme Court rules that what Trump did to stay in power was absolutely not in violation of the Constitution, then Biden should simply do it too. But of course, with more competency because while Trump’s minions weren’t certain at the time that using the power of the presidency to remain in office despite losing an election was allowed, the Supreme Court may very well make a ruling that Biden has free reign to use all of his power as the president to make sure his opponent never takes office.
So, either Trump is not on the ballot at all, or the Supreme Court has blessed as legal Biden using all of his executive power, and especially violent action, to guarantee he stays in power.
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Excellent points
Since Trump won’t be brought to justice -delays and appeals- Biden can reign for the remainder of his life.
The left can merely say the election in 2024 was stolen, if Trump should receive the necessary electoral college votes.
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And Biden can say that the Supreme Court ruled that what he is doing is perfectly fine.
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