I first heard this question posed when I was in high school in the 1950s. The question was always posed by the John Birch Society, an extremist rightwing group. Frankly, I never truly understood why folks on the right kept hammering this as a big deal. Whichever term you use, you are talking about a society governed by a representative body.
A reader recently posted the claim that the U.S. is a republic, not a democracy.
Our reader Democracy responded:
When someone says that the US is actually a “republic” and not a democracy,” it is actually a good sign that he is a Know-Nothing who subscribes to authoritarianism and is OPPOSED to a government “of the people, by the people, for the people.”
Constitutional scholar Eugen Volokh wrote this in The Washington Post more than eight years ago:
“John Adams used the term ‘representative democracy’ in 1794; so did Noah Webster in 1785; so did St. George Tucker in his 1803 edition of Blackstone; so did Thomas Jefferson in 1815. Tucker’s Blackstone likewise uses ‘democracy’ to describe a representative democracy, even when the qualifier ‘representative’ is omitted…”
“James Wilson, one of the main drafters of the Constitution and one of the first Supreme Court Justices, defended the Constitution in 1787 by speaking of the three forms of government being the ‘monarchical, aristocratical, and democratical,’ and said that in a democracy the sovereign power is ‘inherent in the people, and is either exercised by themselves or by their representatives.’ And Chief Justice John Marshall — who helped lead the fight in the 1788 Virginia Convention for ratifying the U.S. Constitution — likewise defended the Constitution in that convention by describing it as implementing ‘democracy’ (as opposed to ‘despotism’), and without the need to even add the qualifier ‘representative.’”
“… there is no basis for saying that the United States is somehow ‘not a democracy, but a republic.’ ‘Democracy’ and ‘republic’ aren’t just words that a speaker can arbitrarily define to mean something (e.g., defining democracy as ‘a form of government in which all laws are made directly by the people’). They are terms that have been given meaning by English speakers more broadly. And both today and in the Framing era, ‘democracy’ has been generally understood to include representative democracy as well as direct democracy.”
I’d say we are a “democratic republic” and let it go with that.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Thank you, Diane, for exploding yet another Repugnican misdirection and equivocation.
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‘I’d say we are a “democratic republic” and let it go with that.’
Bingo. Perfect.
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agreed
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I agree with that, too. I think what it comes down to is all the low information Republicans that see their party’s name in the word “republic,” assume that’s what our country is SUPPOSED to be all about, and who have been conditioned to vehemently hate Democrats so much that they see that party’s name in “democracy” and cannot envision anything positive related to that. (When knowledge matters so much, there’s really nothing blissful about ignorance.)
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I’d say that right now we have a Kleptocratic Oligarchy. Democracy died years ago along with the common good.
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Which we also had during The Gilded Age. Let’s hope we can claw our way back to being a government of, by and for the people. It won’t be easy. We will have to fight for it just as people did before with progressive leadership, unions and The New Deal helped to rewrite the laws.
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LisaM,
By saying “democracy died”, you are implying that you believe there was a time when democracy “lived” in America. When exactly was that time, given the narrow terms in which you have just denied its current existence?
Democracy in this country has ALWAYS been flawed and imperfect. From the very beginning, when so many Americans were denied the vote because of their race or gender or class. Not sure when you believe it “died” but I am interested to hear when you believe it “lived”. In the 1930s? 1950s? 1970s? What makes you believe America was a “democracy” then and not now? There were always flaws in it.
But despite its flaws, American democracy was designed to protect the ability of the American people to improve upon their democracy. Unfortunately, the dangerous Republican party wants to end that essential component to democracy.
You are right that there were too many useful idiots who helped create even bigger flaws in our democracy who in 2016 voted AGAINST having a democrat fill an open seat on the Supreme Court. Those folks thought it was unimportant whether or not the Supreme Court enshrined the Citizens’ United philosophy or INSTEAD interpreted laws to support democracy, and they got their wish to defeat the Democrat. Those folks joined with the Republicans to TRY to end democracy.
But because America has not devolved into a full on Kleptocratic Oligarchy – YET – democracy isn’t dead – YET. It will be if the useful idiots once again amplify the falsehood that since democracy is ALREADY dead, why even vote for the Democrats because there is no danger that the Republicans can kill democracy because it’s ALREADY dead. And when Republicans do become empowered and do kill democracy for real, those folks will be the first to say “see, I told you so, democracy is dead”. Yes, but at the hands of the Republicans and the useful idiots who said that empowering the Republicans could not kill democracy any more than it was already dead.
NOW, democracy is alive in America because this country is still very different from Hungary and Russia. But if you want to make sure we get to being Hungary and Russia, keep helping to amplify the right wing propaganda that we are ALREADY like Hungary and Russia, and so there is no reason that empowering a far right neo fascist Republican party will matter.
If democracy is dead already then the vote doesn’t matter.
I do find it ironic that the Republicans have enacted their far right anti-progressive, pro-kleptocracy agenda because THEIR supporters, never believed that democracy was already dead. Instead they came out and voted in large numbers, because they supported the idea that if the Republicans seized power, they could THEN end democracy and stay in power.
The far right propaganda goes onto Republican and right wing sites and tells supporters of the right wing agenda that they should vote as if their life depended on it to empower the Republicans. Those voters believe there is a vast difference between the two parties and the evil Democrats must be defeated at all costs and they must vote to make that happen.
What a shame that Republicans aren’t inundated with messages that democracy is dead so it doesn’t matter which party wins. Instead, they are inundated with messages that the Democrats aren’t yet dead, so they better go vote and empower Republicans who can make sure they stay dead forever.
While some on the left love spreading to their own folks that voting doesn’t matter one iota because democracy is already dead.
Man, I wish Republicans had lots of people like this telling their supporters that democracy already died. Just think how much it would depress the Republican vote if their supporters were inundated with this “true” message FROM THEIR OWN PEOPLE about how their vote didn’t matter one bit.
Cynicism is the right’s propaganda tool. Their own voters aren’t cynical but they love it when progressives give up and help empower them because they are convinced democracy already died. If only right wing Republicans believed that with the same absolute fervor as some on the left – if that were to happen in 2022, we might just get a very progressive future with democracy safeguarded. But we all know Republicans are going to come out and vote because they know when they do, it STILL matters. When America turns into Russia because the Republicans win more elections, it won’t matter anymore.
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Spaghetti logic served with a hefty side of word salad. Go fight with Bob or Flerp. Oh, and Merry Christmas to you!
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Please no, Lisa.
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What a gneiss comment. Spot on analysis.
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My apologies to Bob and FLERP! The last thing I would dare to do is post anything that you two kind and thoughtful icons of nuanced thinking and perfect communication skills would object to.
If you prefer I shut up and not challenge LisaM’s amplification of the “truth” that democracy died a long time ago, then I wouldn’t dare to argue with such great minds as yours.
Thanks for reminding me to shut up and let the important people like LisaM spread their wisdom unchallenged. Democracy is dead. Why should I even bother reading this blog anymore?
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68 percent of Americans say that marijuana should be legal for recreational use. But it is still illegal at the federal level.
63 percent of Americans believe that government has a responsibility to provide medical insurance for all as is done in every other Western democracy, yet 31.8 million Americans are uninsured.
63 percent of Americans think that college should be free, like K-12 public school.
61 percent of Americans think that taxes should be raised considerably on families with incomes of over $400,000 a year.
82 percent of Americans support a government-paid parental leave program like those found in every other Western democracy.
In other words, our laws do not accord with the will of the people. Instead, they accord with the will of rich donors to politicians. That doesn’t sound particularly democratic now, does it?
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In 2016, Hillary Clinton received 65,844,610 for president. Donald Trump received 62,979,636.
Democracy?
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So, at a minimum, I could say that we could use some democratization here. And that could start by expanding the Supreme Court and getting the big money out of political campaigns.
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75 percent of Americans think that dental coverage should be added to Medicare.
And so on.
There’s your democracy at work.
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The United States. The unique democracy in which the will of the demos is ignored.
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Bob, perhaps consider that the “will of the people” is reflected in their votes, not in what issues they say they support. Republican voters understand this all too well.
Anyone who votes Republican puts “I want dental coverage” way down the list of their concerns or desires. They want whatever it is the Republicans are selling them — whether it’s white supremacy, some notion that low taxes on the rich and cutting minimum wage will help them, or just a promise that they will punish the people their voters want them to punish. Republican voters may want dental coverage, but they want other things a lot more, and they would even vote for a candidate who talks about cutting Medicare or privatizing it to get those other things.
Consider that we all do that. In 2016, lots of people voted for Bernie Sanders even if Bernie was still supporting all the “good public charter schools” out there. It’s hard to find a progressive candidate willing to stand up strongly against charters and for public schools — even AOC could be a whole lot better. But I’d gladly vote for her – or Pete B. – because of OTHER issues. I don’t care if they agree with me on all issues; I care if they agree with me on the issues that are most important to me.
And in a democracy, 75% of the people can say they want dental coverage, and 50% of those people might vote for a candidate who will help block dental coverage and will help privatize Medicare because that candidate is anti-abortion.
I don’t understand what their choice to vote against dental coverage but for outlawing abortion has to do with whether or not America is a democracy. But whatever. If I don’t say that democracy is dead, I won’t be popular with the cool kids here. Can’t challenge that “truth” that it seems only voters on the left believe. Meanwhile, Republican voters turn out to vote in large numbers because they know the only way to kill democracy is to first use democracy to get the power to murder it. Shame that some on the left just want to declare it already dead so no need to prevent the Republicans from murdering what is already “dead”.
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I just showed you that on issue after issue, the will of the people is not reflected in the policies of our government, and you responded by saying that you didn’t see how that had anything to do with democracy. If that isn’t clear to you–what it has to do with democracy–then it would be impossible for me to explain it to you. This has nothing to do with being cool. It has to do with the fact that we live in a country in which the will of the minority is reflected in our laws because that minority has the money.
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That minority has always had money. It has always had undue influence EXCEPT when people don’t get swayed by their propaganda.
Not sure why believe it is a new thing.
If some people will not vote for politicians who support what they say they want, because they’d rather have a candidate spewing a message of hate who is against some of the things they say they want, that’s on them. That’s how democracy works. Ask all the Republican voters who say they want dental coverage but vote for politicians who don’t give it to them. They aren’t upset they aren’t getting dental coverage and vowing to turn out the Republicans they voted for. They are delighted at what they are getting from Republicans.
Listen to any Republican voter. They don’t spread the “truth” to one another that democracy is dead and they should all stay home and not bother voting because it doesn’t matter– both parties are controlled only by the same rich people. That seems to be exclusively a “truth” embraced by those on the left.
The difference between the engagement of Republican voters and Democrat voters is that Republican voters who claim the election is stolen because they didn’t get what they want will be coming out in force to vote for a politician who gives them what they most want (newsflash: it’s not dental coverage!)
Republicans don’t focus on whether they are getting everything they want. They focus on getting what they MOST want, and what they MOST want is exactly the message the Republicans offer them. (Hint: not dental coverage).
While far too many voters on the left simply focus on all the things they aren’t getting because they don’t seem to value at all the things that they do get from Democrats — like preserving democracy! Like a Supreme Court that makes democracy more responsive to people who aren’t rich.
Democracy isn’t dead because 75% of the people may want dental insurance but the majority of them don’t care if a politician offering what they want a lot more than dental insurance gives it to them.
“Polls” aren’t democracy. VOTES are democracy. Republicans focus on what they DO get from their politicians, when they could be just like some voters on the left and throw temper tantrums because they don’t value the things their politicians achieved, and only focus on what they didn’t.
Ironic that Republican voters who would kill democracy in the future are so certain democracy isn’t yet dead that they are determined to vote AND THEY DON’T CARE IF THE REPUBLICAN SUPPORTS DENTAL COVERAGE.
While apparently some people on the left seem to be willing to have a far right Supreme Court because they believe democracy is dead anyway, since they still don’t have dental insurance.
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Why is Trump the almost undisputed leader of the Repugnican Party? Well, the Repugnican party CANNOT tell the truth about what it believes and wants (fewer taxes and more money for the rich, higher taxes and less money for the poor, child labor, the end of the minimum wage, the death of union representation, dictatorial authority vested in the president, women pregnant and in the kitchen, the end of birth control, control over women’s bodies, imposition of fundamentalist Christian Protestant or Catholic religion on everyone, imprisonment of gay people, imprisonment for getting an abortion, the end of or dramatic cuts in Social Security and Medicare, prison camps for immigrants, the death penalty for a wide range of crimes, military support for dictatorial regimes around the world). SO IT HAS TO LIE TO GET PEOPLE WITH THESE REPUGNANT VIEWS ELECTED. And IT HAS TO INVENT DISTRACTIONS.
Because it is a party that, in its current form, is built upon lies, and Trump truly is exceptional in this one thing–he is the most prolific (if not the most skilled) liar among the lying lot of them. The
In fact, when the day comes and Trump passes on, I think his tombstone should read,
Here lies Donald Trump.
But that’s nothing new.
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AGREE.
BEWARE AI and the elections. The news article below troubles me…hugely.
https://enewspaper.dailycamera.com/infinity/article_popover_share.aspx?guid=187b2f0d-d894-4043-8ea2-03c4566da49b&share=true
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This debate goes back to ancient Rome and Greece. A republic was then defined as a society that was governed by representatives chosen via some process; a democracy was government by the entire body of qualified people, in those days non-slave men above a certain age (e.g. Athenian democracy). This is Political Science 101; it has nothing to do right-wing or left-wing as those terms are used in 2023.
The Founding generation always referred to early America as a republic. They were eventually dismayed by the increasing cultural democratization of the country, as Joseph Ellis described in his book “After The Revolution.” Among the dismayed people was Thomas Jefferson. These days, the terms democracy and republic are used interchangeably to describe the American system of government. In Political Science terms, the U.S. is a republic but the culture and how representatives in government are chosen is very democratic.
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Just an FYI for you, Mr. Safely…..This has turned into a culture war type of thing lately. It’s a war on “words”. Those at the polar extremes of the political spectrum have taken to fighting over the nuance of words because it’s generally thought that those who “win the war” have “control of the language”. Meanwhile, we have real problems affecting real people and “the noise” will continue to drown out the real needs of ALL the people.
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Of course I agree that the motives of those who call it a Republic are vile. The real question to be asked: Is the US now or has it ever been a Representative Republic where citizenship and voting is open to all and where the principle of one man one vote for those representatives applies.
Those that correct us by pointing out we are not a plebiscite. Neglect to mention that from the Constitution on they(!!) have insured that we are also a very imperfect representative Government. You can start with the Connecticut resolution. It would seem that having a Senate benefited smaller Northern States till you realize it was the 3/5ths rule that necessitated it. In any event the cow in Wyoming has 38 times more say than I in the Senate and more in the Electoral College.(far from Democracy). You fast forward 100 years and breaking the Dakota Territory into 4 states sealed the deal.
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We are a somewhat flawed representative democracy. There is definitely work that must happen to make it function better. We need to figure out a way to curtail the influence of money on policy. We should tighten up some of the weaknesses, particularly since so many in the GOP are lawless thugs that will do anything to retain power. What happened in 2020 is frightening. The fact that the GOP could come so close to stealing the election through fake electors is a sign we need to improve the process so that democracy is preserved.
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As Nancy MacLean pointed out, democracy is not over. It is struggling in chains from the wealthy right wing and powerful corporations.
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For whatever reason, “The Emperor’s Club” starring Kevin Kline (based on the Ethan Canin short story, “The Palace Thief” comes to mind. Worth checking out as Mr. Hundert promotes the origins of democracy in his class. Hope for a happy 2024. Peace to all.
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The GOP and the libertarians hate democracy, they don’t want any of that voting stuff because they may lose. Example from a past far right conservative democracy hater: “At a gathering of evangelicals back in 1980, Paul Weyrich, a Republican strategist and a co-founder of the Heritage Foundation, asked, “How many of our Christians have what I call the ‘goo-goo syndrome’? Good government. They want everybody to vote. I don’t want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people. They never have been from the beginning of our country, and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.”
We are a democracy and a republic, a democratic republic, a representative democracy.
Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, has said ”we don’t live in a democracy.”
Sorry, Mike, the USA is a democracy and a constitutional republic, it happens.
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Paul Weyrich, funded by the Koch’s, was right wing Catholic.
Give Send Go (a Christian crowdsourcing website) posted a fundraising campaign for Mike Roman. Roman was indicted in August, in Atlanta, on 7 felony charges. Roman features prominently in an investigative report at CNN
(“E-mails and recordings show what was happening behind the scenes in an effort to keep Trump in office after he lost”, 12-28-2023) . Roman was the 2020 Trump Campaign Director of Election Day Operations. Prior to that he headed an intelligence gathering operation for Charles and David Koch. The Give Send Go site states, “Mike, father of 8 and a devout Catholic, is being targeted by the government in an unprecedented effort to criminalize politics.”
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In Utah, we are required by law to teach that the US is a “Constitutional Compound Republic.” It took me three years to figure out what the legislature meant by “compound.” I am a political science major. Turns out “compound” is their term for “federal,” but of course the federal government is “a problem,” so we can’t call it that (sarcasm). But no one at the state office or anywhere else could tell me what “compound” meant. For three years gotta “love” micromanaging. (also sarcasm)
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Hilarious, TOW!
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Wow. That’s mandated educational malpractice.
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Mandated educational malpractice.
Yup. There is a lot of that.
My last school required that I use a textbook that was absolutely riddled with errors and appeared to have been written by people completely ignorant of literature and the language arts. I mostly left the things in boxes. It also required that I follow, day by day, the curriculum outline on the state website, which was a travesty. I ignored that too. And consequently, I got some actual teaching of English done.
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I wish that we had a parliamentary system.
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So does our president become a kind of royal figurehead, or do we eliminate the ceremony altogether and just go with a prime minister? Then the compromise comes before the winning coalition forms a government and is governed by the promises of the parties/groups who agreed to join them. Rather than coalitions within a political party different parties agree to act together to form a majority unit. Like Israel? I’m not sure either system has a good mechanism for dealing with concerted effort by bad actors. Both systems require honest compromise, which doesn’t always happen. I don’t think I am ready to throw out the constitution yet although some days…
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Our system is deadlocked. Clearly. Parliamentary systems force people to work with others, and they enable the existence of a lot more viable parties with actual influence.
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Yeah, and while we’re at it, replace the president with a Prime Minister (leader of the governing coalition).
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Here, here!
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The United States is a democratic republic that is guided by a constitution written by the Founders of this country, a constitution that is the foundation for how we vote, who holds power, what is legal and illegal, how the justice system works.
As long as the U.S. Constitution stays the foundation of our country; we will remain a democratic representational republic.
At least China’s constitution is honest about China being a “dictatorship.”
The constitution of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) and the CCP constitution state that its form of government is “people’s democratic dictatorship”. The state constitution also holds that China is a one-party state that is governed by the CCP.”
The biggest threat to our Constitution at this time is Traitor Trump and his loyalist MAGA RINO mafia like support base. If the traitor wins the election in 2024, by cheating (the only way he can win), it will be up to the people that didn’t vote for him to fight to defend the Constitution that protects our democratic republic. And tens of millions of citizens served or still serve this country and took an oath to do just that. Fight to defend the U.S. Constitution as it was written, not how some monster like Traitor Trump will revise it to suit his malignant narcissistic whims.
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Another annoying thing that the GOP does, (amongst a plethora of chalk grating on the chalkboard type thingies) is to refer to the Democrats as “the democrat party.” Just stop it GOP, it’s the Democratic Party not democrat party. When the GOP reduces Democratic to democrat that leads to rat and big chuckles for the GOP knuckleheads.
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I agree with “democratic republic.” It implies individual rights as the foundation of representative government.
Erich
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Erich Martel taught social studies, government, civics, and history in the DC public schools for decades. If he says “democratic republic,” I vote for that.
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Call it whatever you like, but the fact remains that my vote does not count because I cannot in good faith vote for a democrat or a republican. They don’t represent me. Citizens United just made it worse, so wealthy people and corporations run this country as the founding fathers probably intended it. Or as John Jay said, the people who own this country ought to run it.
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When Hillary was a candidate in 2016, she pledged to appoint Supreme Court justices who would overturn Citizens United.
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who cares about Killary Clinton? She was going to lead us to ww3 like Biden is doing so w can lose the constiuition and then we lose all of our rights. Biden and Obama , with Valerie Jarrett and others pulling that up now as we will be invaded soon just like china will be invading taiwan
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Actually, the distinction is between Democracy and Civil Society. Civil is rests on three basic pillars: tolerance, the rule of law, and professionalism. Professionalism is the soul of civil society without which first two are susceptible to corruption and authoritarianism. Here’s the rub: while Democracy needs a healthy Civil society for its survival, Civil Society doesn’t need Democracy for its survival. And today’s USA is proof of the latter…
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As long as we’re not a confederacy.
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Those that argue fervently in favor that we’re a republic and not a democracy are simply making the case to remove the ‘demos’ (the people) from governing themselves, ergo laying the groundwork and justifications for an singular executive in an authoritarian-style government (dictator, monarch, chancellor, etc.). We are a republic but a self-governing, democratic one as flawed as it is. Whenever I hear people arguing we’re “not a democracy but a republic,” whatever IQ points I’ve garnered in my life risk the danger of disappearing.
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….as evidenced by my grammatical error above 😦
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Three groups promoting anti-democracy legislation in Ohio in August were the National Christian Charitable Foundation, Vote Catholic Ohio and the archdioceses of Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland (the archdioceses spent $900,000).
The methods of the right wing include pink slime news sites and publications. (Cincinnati Enquirer, 8-1-2023, “Did you get a pro-Issue 1 Buckeye Reporter in the mail? This is the group behind it”
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This month, a journalist at Politico (12-3-2023) came as close to identifying the right wing Catholic political juggernaut as is possible while not breaking the media taboo. “Leonard Leo and Robert P George are board members of EPPC and both are on the board of Becket Law.”
“…Robert P George…confidant of Leonard Leo…made the case for overturning Roe in an amicus brief a year before SCOTUS issued its ruling.”
The article identifies Villanova retired professor Joseph Dellapenna (cited by Alito in the Roe decision) and John Keown, Rose F Kennedy Professor of Christian Ethics in the Kennedy Institute of Ethics at Georgetown.
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