What more can be said about the senseless murder of at least 18 people in Lewiston, Maine? We have said it all, heard it all.
Thoughts and prayers for those who lost loved ones.
Action on gun control? No way.
One Democratic Congressman from Maine, Jared Golden, switched his position and will now vote for restrictions on guns. Susan Collins, Republican Senator from Maine, will continue to oppose a ban on assault weapons. She favors a ban on “high-capacity magazines,” though it’s doubtful her colleagues would support that. She’s usually called a “moderate.” She’s probably serving her last term. Why is she resisting limits on deadly weapons?
The Republican Party will not budge. They didn’t budge after the murders of babies at Sandy Hook. They didn’t budge after the festival carnage in Las Vegas. They didn’t budge after the slaughter of children in Uvalde, Texas. They won’t budge now.
The United States banned assault weapons from 1994 to 2004. The ban lapsed and was never renewed. The skies didn’t fall. The Constitution remained in place.
The shooting was the country’s 36th mass killing this year, according to a database maintained by The Associated Press and USA Today in partnership with Northeastern University. At least 190 people have died in those killings, which are defined as incidents in which four or more people have died within a 24-hour period, not including the killer — the same definition used by the FBI.
But other news sources say there have been 565 mass shootings this year:
There have been more than 565 mass shootings in 2023 so far, which is defined by the Gun Violence Archive as an incident in which four or more victims are shot or killed. These mass shootings have led to 597 deaths and 2,380 injuries.
I’m not sure that it matters how many people died in mass shootings because the people with the power to ban civilian ownership of military weapons don’t care. They won’t act no matter how many people die.
If I were a foreigner, I might hesitate to be a tourist in the U.S. It’s dangerous here.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
The massacres will increase until the day SCOTUS is convicted as accessories before the fact.
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O for a voice like thunder, and a tongue
To drown the throat of war! — When the senses
Are shaken, and the soul is driven to madness,
Who can stand? When the souls of the oppressed
Fight in the troubled air that rages, who can stand?
When the whirlwind of fury comes from the
Throne of God, when the frowns of his countenance
Drive the nations together, who can stand?
When Sin claps his broad wings over the battle,
And sails rejoicing in the flood of Death;
When souls are torn to everlasting fire,
And fiends of Hell rejoice upon the slain,
O who can stand? O who hath caused this?
O who can answer at the throne of God?
The Kings and Nobles of the Land have done it!
Hear it not, Heaven, thy Ministers have done it!
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Beautiful. Powerful. Troubled Air.
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William Blake and Loreena McKennitt. My Lord. Two geniuses. Thanks for sharing this, Jon. I was fortunate enough once to see her in concert, in Boston, Orpheum Theatre. My lord. She has the voice of an angel, and what material she performs! And the arrangements are simply breathtaking.
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SEN Collins wants to ban high-capacity magazines. Let’s take the win on that one. How about high-velocity “cop killer” bullets? Even my Republican sheriff is for keeping those out of certain hands.
The anti-choice group settled for incremental change when that was all they could achieve. We need to do that on guns.
Oh, and the rule that CDC, NIH, etc. can’t study gun violence? Maybe add an appropriate amendment to some bill after every mass shooting that gives them permission to study that one incident. See who dares oppose it.
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Sen Collins SAYS she wants to ban high-capacity magazines, but her actions demonstrate that she needs her bosses in the Republican party to give her permission to do anything but mouth words. She has always lacked any political courage and John McCain knew it, which is why he let her cast her vote not to repeal Obamacare (when she had permission since everyone thought McCain would vote to repeal it), and McCain came in at the very end and made her vote count. She isn’t allowed to cast any votes that matter and McCain fooled them into thinking this time her vote not to repeal Obamacare wouldn’t matter.
She’s a political coward of the worst kind. Her legacy is in shreds and history will hold her up as a prime example of the political cowardice that defines the few Republicans who aren’t neo-fascists but simply are following their orders.
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NYC PSP,
You are right about Collins. She has no courage, no principles. Why she was re-elected is a mystery.
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Yes, Susan Collin is a political coward….a cipher.
She got re-elected because too many Maine voters believed in her as a “moderate.” They are either cognitively challenged, or suckers. Maybe both.
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Some time ago, I compared the deaths of our military in war zones like Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, and they were safer than citizens going about their daily routines in the United States where firearm violence is a viral epidemic compared to being in combat where it’s more like the common cold.
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Good read on the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban that expired in 2004. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/20/us-legislators-banned-assault-weapons-in-94-why-cant-they-now AND https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/10/other-countries-put-lives-before-guns-why-cant-we/. AND https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/26/us/gun-violence-america-fear/index.html
But don’t worry our newly elected Speaker remains adamant, “At the end of the day, the problem is the human heart. It’s not guns. It’s not the weapons,” Johnson said. “At the end of the day, we have to protect the right of the citizens to protect themselves, and that’s the Second Amendment. And that’s why our party stands so strongly for that. I agree with the comments of your guests there. This is not the time to be talking about legislation.”
We live in a country where the definition of insanity remains prevalent.
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Well, Mr. Charvet, maybe we should get to work fixing the human heart. Our new speaker has an answer: read the Bible.
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@Diane — and it takes us right back to education. For one to read the Bible, one must understand the Bible (Old Testament or New?), but then again that would require critical thinking skills to differentiate between fallacy, allegory, and historical record. And as we know that takes time and it’s “hard.” And, in addition to studying one source, one must cross reference several sources. So, as evidenced, “Listen to me, I will tell you what to think” is so much easier besides I will have time for my TV shows. Just make a law that does not make “war weapons” available to the public and invest in mental health services, education, thus, helping to provide for domestic tranquility and a more perfect nation. Uh, your job. Take that to heart, Mr. Speaker.
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The Bible is a guide for daily life only if you read selectively. Hardly anyone in the Old Testament is wholly virtuous. There are sins of all kinds on display. If Mike Johnson used the New Testament as his guide to living, he would be loving, kind, charitable, and concerned for the weak and powerless, which he is not.
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@Diane, agreed…Amen. I was always interested in Theology especially the study of ALL religions. I thought, “Rick, you can study to find out.” I tried. the Bible requires daily dedication and also more study via the Anchorpoint Books (Christianity) that would consume a lifetime. Yes, how hypocritical to say “Read the Bible” when obviously he has “cherry picked” his scripture in a society with so many different faiths. Legislate like people elected you to do. Uh, “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.” Seems THEY have forgotten the oath swore to our country. Blessings.
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Apparently he only reads the parts of the Bible he likes. Out of context, you can find support for almost any atrocity in the Bible.
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Exactly. The Bible contains all imaginable sins.
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This is terrible, obviously.
But I can’t keep it straight—is the idea that America is plagued by violent crime a myth promoted by right-wingers, as I am often told, or is America so dangerous with gun violence that foreign tourists should be told to avoid it? Lloyd seems to think America is more dangerous than an active war zone.
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You may be having trouble “keeping it straight” because the myth that the right wing promotes is NOT “America is plagued by violent crime” but that “Having lots of guns and assault weapons in the hands of as many Americans as possible, with no restrictions, is the way to combat this violent crime that plagues America, and having easy access to guns and assault weapons in this country has absolutely nothing to do with the CAUSE of this plague of violent crime.
It’s pretty easy to keep straight what is myth and what isn’t.
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Is the United States so dangerous that tourists should keep clear, or isn’t it?
Is the United States more dangerous than a war zone, or isn’t it?
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I felt safer walking in Vienna and Berlin and Copenhagen than the citizens of Lewiston, Maine, do right now.
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FLERP!,
Whose questions are you asking?
Lloyd said: “I compared the deaths of our military in war zones like Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, and they were safer than citizens going about their daily routines in the United States where firearm violence is a viral epidemic compared to being in combat where it’s more like the common cold.”
FLERP!, if you have also compared the death rate in military war zones with firearm violence in America, I would be interested to see your statistics.
It is true that the media doesn’t inform us of every military death in combat. But when 13 soldiers died in the Afghanistan pull out, it was unusual and shocking enough that the media spoke with one voice that it was an abject failure.
When 21 people (including 19 young children) were killed in Uvalde, it was just another day, followed by another one and another one and another one and another one and another one. No one even calls it the Republican Party’s horrible failure. It just is. It’s not like 13 soldiers died or any thing, because that seems to be something that is viewed as easily preventable in a war zone, whereas children being mowed down in school by gunfire is what America says is just the price of living here.
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Rightwingers must want more violent crime because they want to remove all restrictions on the ability to buy guns, own guns, use guns, carry guns.
Of course, when they raise fears of violent crime, they are raising the specter of Black crime, not white guys with assault weapons.
I’m fearful of going to states that remove all gun control and permit open carry.
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Republican lawmakers in Congress are opposed to any form of gun legislation. That is what it is. They don’t care how many people die.
But let me try to break this down because people seem to be having trouble understanding what I’m saying.
I get annoyed at how the only gun violence that gets people in my political party animated is the small minority of gun violence done with assault weapons. I rarely hear any voices from my side of the political aisle (the left) cry out over normal Chicago weekend when a couple dozen people are shot and/or killed. Why is that?
And I rarely hear voices from the left call for more policing focused on removing guns from the population. For the most part (except for people like me and a handful of criminologists I follow) I only hear cops and Republicans call for stuff like that.
FBI stats say about 400 people were killed by assault rifles in 2020. That’s out of 330 million people in the U.S., or about .0001212121212%. Similar to your odds of being struck by lightning.
Meanwhile people like Joel mock the idea that NYC has a serious gun violence problem, and attribute it to right-wing propaganda. He’s not wrong when you compare it with other cities or with NYC 25 years ago, but people in NYC are murdered with guns (about 250 in 2022, in a city of 8.5 million) at an overwhelmingly higher rate than are killed with assault rifles in the US. So why is one phenomenon (assault rifles) a national crisis while gun violence in NYC is no big deal?
(I don’t mean to pick on Joel, who hasn’t even commented in this thread, but he and I have had this conversation many times here, and he is a good example of what I’m talking about.)
I’m proposing that people care more about gun violence generally. Not just the sporadic story about a crazy mass murderer with a scary looking rifle.
To be clear, I feel more safe walking around Berlin than I do walking around parts of the city where I live. But that’s not because of assault rifles or Republicans.
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FLERP,
You wrote:
“And I rarely hear voices from the left call for more policing focused on removing guns from the population. For the most part (except for people like me and a handful of criminologists I follow) I only hear cops and Republicans call for stuff like that.”
I have not heard of Republicans saying that police should remove guns from the public. I only hear Republicans saying that guns should be freely available, without any regulation.
I don’t know if I count as on the “left,” but I would (and have) happily advocate to remove all guns except from officers of the law. Straw man?
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I think, Flerp, that people seem to be more concerned about assault weapons right now is because the banning of them is maybe a battle we can win. I live outside of Chicago; gun violence is not something that is taken lightly. Being surrounded by states with loose laws doesn’t help either, but in the end there has to be national action. Getting the NRA money out of the pockets of legislators would help. A national campaign like the one against smoking? It took years, but smoking is no longer a normal social go-to. There is no reason to ban the CDC or NIH from studying gun violence that can’t be traced back to the gun lobby.
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Not a strawman, Diane. DAs in cities like NYC and Philly and elsewhere have been more lax on charging illegal firearm possession. And progressive advocates are constantly calling for the disbandment of street units tasked with getting guns off the street.
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The Sociopathic Continuum Of The United States (SCOTUS) stretches down from the highest court of the land to the schoolyard, shopping mall, and street. It will not be cured by any amount of salving the symptoms, however much we try. The massacres will continue until we root out the cause at the top.
It’s a waste of breath talking about anything else.
It’s a waste of time pointing in any other direction.
#SociopathicContinuumOfTheUnitedStates #SCOTUS
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Diane, just want to say even though we are polar opposites with politics I do appreciate your effort to push for public education
All the school shooters are mentally ill. Do we ban all cars when people mow down people on purpse? Do we take all knives away when people go on stabbing sprees? We are never ever taking guns away from the people or we will end up worse than what Hamas did to innocent Israeli’s.
I agree we do not need to sell high powered guns to anyone under 30 without a permit , vested etc.
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Hey, bro. The AR-15 and its look-alikes are military grade weapons. The AR-15 was designed specifically for the military and it was designed for lethality. No American citizen — under 30, above 30, whatever — needs an AR-15 or should be able to own one, and that includes you.
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The economy would collapse if we banned cars.
Nobody could cut their food or packaging if we banned knives.
Nobody could shoot a bunch of things with little difficulty if we banned high-capacity magazines or semi-automatic rifles. I suspect we’d manage.
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I always , because I was told by my Israeli acquaintances so (not reliable), that EVERYONE in Israel owns an M-16 assault rifle. But according to Wikipedia (also not reliable), there are 120 firearms in the U.S. per 100 people and only 6 firearms per 100 people in Israel. Food for thought.
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LCT, I don’t think that is true, because none of the Israelis in the kibbutzim had anything more than a handgun. Even the local police had no more than handguns.
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I thought they were armed to the teeth. They weren’t.
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Of those killed or injured n Maine, how many opposed gun control measures? If I vote against a tornado alert system in my community and then, I suffer the consequences of no warning, how much sympathy for me is warranted? When the majority votes against the tornado alarm system, it also adversely affects those who voted for the warning system. Are the latter the ones who deserve sympathy?
People who listened to bogus arguments and chose not to get Covid shots, then died from Covid,….
A person trained by the military, a person who has schizophrenia that presents as him threatening the murder of others… seems like the possibility of restrictions on the weapons he is allowed to possess might be feasible but, it’s unlikely for 2nd amendment whack jobs.
Larry Vickers pled guilty- interesting bio at Wikipedia.
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I’m going to go out on a limb here and take the position that we should sympathize with people murdered in cold blood regardless of their whether they supported an assault weapon ban.
I mean how nasty can we be.
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If we lived in a sane country, these semi-automatic weapons would have been banned eons ago. By some miracle, we put heavy restrictions and rules limiting the sale of machine guns or fully automatic guns. So we don’t hear about machine massacres these days. The GOP stands in the way of any sensible gun legislation. Maine is a state with very lax and loose rules regarding guns, any maniac can walk in and buy a semi-automatic killing machine. What can possibly go wrong when we keep doing stupid in this country thanks to the far right GOP gargoyles.
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I see mentions of New York and Chicago.
The age-adjusted firearm mortality rate is twice as high in Mississippi as in Illinois. (33.9 to 16.1 in 2021; 28.6 to 14.1 in 2020)
Why don’t we hear that the states with the most firearm deaths on a per capita or age-adjusted basis are Republican dominated? Why don’t we hear that the rate in Mississippi is six times the rate of New York?
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Good point, Steve.
Republicans would prefer to talk about crime in Democratic-run cities.
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Steve, the point is we really don’t hear much about either in the national media. It’s just background noise in local news, a steady drumbeat of people shooting each other. Only random shootings with scary looking rifles get national attention. I understand why — it’s because the randomness of those crimes scares people who (largely correctly) assume that they can take steps to isolate themselves from day to day violence by steering clear of criminal activity and choosing to live in a low-crime neighborhood. But you can’t deny the most spectacular shootings are exceptional, not the rule.
What do the district attorneys and police chiefs in Cleveland, Natchez, Biloxi, Vicksburg etc. have to say about the violence there? What strategies are they using to combat it? Is it working?
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It’s likely that we’ll learn the truth in a few days.
Second Nexus posted a claim that there are screen shots of Robert Card’s twitter account which were taken before his account was suspended.
Second Nexus’ headline is, “Robert Card’s twitter history was a who’s who of MAGA Trump world.” Elon Musk’s name appeared frequently in the alleged history.
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Linda, I saw a screen shot of Card’s Twitter history, posted on Twitter. Many familiar MAGA names. Question is why Musk deleted his account so quickly. Maybe because he was a follower of Musk.
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Twitter is dangerous in the hands of Musk.
Murdoch created a threat to democracy with Fox.
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The right to bear arms should only be restricted to, protecting oneself from harm, and nothing more, but, once there are guns inside a household, the weapons can be, esaily, misused, and, that is, the downside of, being, supportive of Amendment 2, because, nobody knows, when these, weapons are going going to get, “misfired”…
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Where do the mentally ill who make threats of murder fit into your argument?
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The weapons can even be brought to school by a 1st grader, as in the case of VA teacher shot by student.
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32 shot in Chicago this weekend, 2 dead. More or less a normal weekend.
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Mass murder last night in my backyard, in Ybor City, Tampa. When will we ever learn?
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Just looked it up — I never would have heard about it if you didn’t mention it.
I think a lot of people have already learned everything there is to be learned. One aspect involves readily available guns. As a nation, presumably until something happens that is so horrific that half the country isn’t even capable of imagining it now, we’ve decided to do nothing about that. Another aspect involves a relatively small number of people who are prone to extreme anti-social behavior and violence. Unfortunately, only the second part is within the control of localities.
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According to reputable polls, most Americans want more restrictions on guns. The thing is, they aren’t as passionate about the issue as the people who need one more AR to feel safe at night, nor have they purchased as many legislators.
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FLERP,
Sandy Hook and Uvalde and Marjorie Stoneman Douglas were beyond my imagination. I guess others are not bothered by the mass murder of children.
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And to be clear, the random mass shootings will continue. They depend on free availability of highly destructive guns and ammo, which we as a national have decided is ok. And they are otherwise extremely difficult to detect beforehand. The workaday shootings like in Ybor City at least have the benefit of usually involving people who are on police radar from a young age.
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This one doesn’t even qualify as a mass shooting because only 2 people have died (so far). 18 other shot. And yeah, you are right. Half the country (enough) elects politicians who think that free availability of high destructive guns and ammo is just peachy. So, this will be simply part of life in the United States going forward. Sometimes, like winning the lottery, you will be in a theatre or shopping mall or club or stadium or school, and someone will start killing people. Part of our folk life, like quilting and whittling.
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More than twenty years ago when I taught Teen Forum (I think I was on the topic of “staying away from trouble” and doing the right thing), so out of curiosity, I asked the class, “If you needed drugs, do you know how to get them?” Nearly all hands went up. Then I asked, “If you wanted to get a gun, could you?” These were middle school students. One student said, “Charvet, it is so easy to get a gun.” And, I guess, the beat goes on sadly.
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The guy in Chicago accused of shooting 15 people at a Halloween party was convicted of attempted murder in 2008 and acquitted of first-degree murder in 1997. If only there were a sign.
https://cwbchicago.com/2023/10/chicago-halloween-party-mass-shooting-wiliam-groves-charged-background.html
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