Ron DeSantis didn’t like the College Board claiming that Florida was putting political pressure on the testing company to revise the AP African American Course. He didn’t like their lame attempt to stand up to his bullying. So he let it be known in public that Florida was thinking of replacing the College Board with other vendors.
Normally, the anti-testing organizations would have cheered his stance against the tests. But he made clear that he was looking for other tests.
Tens of thousands of Florida high school students take Advanced Placement courses every year to have a competitive edge heading into college.
Now, Gov. Ron DeSantis says he wants to reevaluate the state’s relationship with the private company that administers those courses and the SAT exam.
The move comes after the College Board accused DeSantis’ administration of playing politics when it rejected an Advanced Placement African American Studies course.
“This College Board, like, nobody elected them to anything,” DeSantis said at a news conference Monday in Naples. “They are just kind of there, and they provide a service and so you can either utilize those services or not.”
While DeSantis acknowledged the College Board has long had a relationship with the state, he said “there are probably other vendors who may be able to do that job as good or maybe even a lot better.”
Florida has long had a strong connection with the College Board. The state pays for students to take Advanced Placement exams, and provides bonuses to teachers whose students perform well.
In 2021, nearly 200,000 Florida teens sat for more than 366,000 tests, for which they can earn college credit. It had the fifth-highest rate of tests taken per 1,000 students in the nation.
The College Board also administers the SAT exam, which students may use to help them complete graduation testing requirements, earn entry into universities and become eligible for Bright Futures scholarships.
If the state were to move away from the College Board, other options exist. Students seeking advanced courses leading to college credits have International Baccalaureate, Cambridge Programme and dual enrollment classes available.
They also can take the ACT exam instead of the SAT.
DeSantis has not provided details as to exactly how the College Board’s relationship with the state could be impacted but said he has started talking to House Speaker Paul Renner about the matter. “I’ve already talked to Paul, and I think the Legislature is going to look to evaluate how Florida is doing that,” DeSantis said.
“Of course, our universities can or can’t accept College Board courses for credit, maybe they’ll do others. And then also just whether our universities do the SAT versus the ACT. I think they do both but we are going to evaluate how the process goes.”
No one from the College Board was immediately available for comment.
What tests do students take if they are not Christian?
Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/education/article272474953.html#storylink=cpy
Diane Ravitch's blog 
DDD strikes again. When will Dangerously Deranged DeSantis start threatening the 2nd US Civil War?
“But he made clear that GE was looking for other tests.”
Again, for those of us self-diagnosed with AIIDS what is GE?
““there are probably other vendors who may be able to do that job as good or maybe even a lot better.” (DeSantis)
Really? As good as?
Technically I think that’s correct. If very bad is as good as one can do, that is.
I used to think Reagan was as bad as it gets. Then Bush/Cheney. But Trump really passed them in pure corruption, and while it’s possible to say that Trump did not do as much “direct” damage (if you leave out COVID), the damage Trump did to democracy is likely to be a death blow. And yet, unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be any bottom when “as bad as it gets” applies to Republicans. No doubt when the next Republican (or maybe the one after that) starts rounding up dissenters and their entire families and making them disappear into their kinder, gentler versions of Auschwitz, Trump won’t seem as bad.
Well. . . technically speaking. . .
OMG–this made me laugh so hard, Senor Swacker, because I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank you…after watching CNN for the last 4 hrs. or so, I really needed a laugh.
DeINSANEtis probably wouldn’t do very good–oops–well–on the English portion of the SAT!
As usual, WordPress misplaced my reply, which SHOULD have been under your 2/13 2:07 PM comment, where it makes sense.
🙂
Regarding AP, there’s another issue than the political one discussed here. While in high school, my daughter took several AP classes and passed the tests to receive college credits; she also took several in-person classes at a community college and earned dual high school/college credits. I looked extensively at the curricula for both the AP classes and the community college classes, and my strong impression was that the CC classes were overall much better. I’ve talked to many other parents about this matter, and they all had the same impressions. I’ve also read online comments over the years from dozens of other people, and I’d estimate that 90% felt like I did. I realize this is not scientific evidence, but at some point anecdotal evidence does begin to build toward a reasonable conclusion. Political issues aside, genuine college classes – in person or online – strike me as much better than AP.
I very strongly support dual high school/college credit programs. For young people with the motivation and ability to begin college-level work while in high school, they should do so for both academic and financial reasons. Maybe it’s time for AP to wither away for quality of curricula reasons.
@Ben I totally agree with you. For the last few years, I was working in the Community College system promoting dual-enrollment as a way to earn college credit while in high school. My son took ALL the AP Exams and we PAID a ton of money for all of them. He did not pass any even though he earned As in all the AP classes. With dual enrollment as long as a student passes the class they would earn college credit. I was trying to explain to people that Community College is not a place “well I didn’t make it” so I will just go to a two-year college. It is a great strategic step to see: do I like college? Can I afford college? And with an AAT (transfer) once an AA is earned, the student transfers to most four-year colleges without paying skyrocket high fees for GE courses. And, when I was at the Art Institute in Chicago, not all of us agreed that by earning AP credit and skipping over key sequential college courses was a good idea. Many (art and music) teach the way they want their students to learn and if a student got to “skip” a 101 class, most would be lost. I know my son is thankful he did not pass his AP Music Theory class because it was not the way they taught it at the college level. And, not all colleges apply AP college credit the same way. I know my son’s teachers had no idea. But, the Dual-enrollment courses were “plain and clear” for the students to get a leg up at the CC and then transfer. My younger son did it (and then went to ASU). Many of my former students went the CC route and ended up at Cal Poly SLO, UCLA, and UC Davis to name a few. Plus, there is something to the “college experience” when students are more mature. Just saying.
Well said!
rcharvet,
The one caution I have about community college classes is that some of them aren’t high enough quality that they benefit students who aspire to four year college degrees. I mentioned my daughter in my first comment; my son did a full two years of community college classes while in high school and eventually he earned a BS in Computer Science. The Dean of the math department at the CC told me that the math professors at our state’s flagship public university always said that the CC math classes were excellent – they fully prepared students for higher level math in the four year program. EVERY state should offer these dual credit programs at no expense to students and their parents.
@Ben — Totally agree. The kids I taught said they “finally got math” when they had to retake or take more math at the CC. My son said the same thing. And many of my students over the years. But, in the end, the AAT helped many students transfer to San Jose State, Cal Poly, and UCLA. Thanks for your perspective.
I totally disagree. AP classes are honors classes. They are fully realized honors level high school classes that are modeled on what private school students got to take many decades ago when 99% of the public school students had one choice each year: “English 1” and “Math 1” and “US History 1”. And the most elite private schools embraced AP classes.
I don’t know what kind of high schools the teachers on here attended; all I know is my own “typical” public high school in a non-affluent midwest suburb. I got to take “Honors English” instead of “College Bound” English. My kid got to take interesting AP classes that were far superior. One non-AP supposedly “advance” class my kid got to take was an anthropology class where the teacher had “freedom” –and kids read from a dull, dense “college level” anthropology book and answered questions. The AP classes were 100x better. They were amazing with good teachers and decent with mediocre teachers.
I truly don’t get the defensiveness about teachers being able to teach content better than some AP course. The teachers who taught my kid’s AP classes didn’t teach by rote — the ones who taught by rote were the teachers who used textbooks for non-AP classes. Putting an AP in front of the name doesn’t make the class good or bad — the teacher does. And the ones who make AP classes bad are the very same ones who make their non-AP classes bad.
Do I think APs should be used for college credit? Some students want that and some don’t. Some colleges allow that and some don’t.
And the notion that kids can get to some community college every day to take a college class instead assumes a level of privilege that is incomprehensible to me. Some students can, some can’t. That’s what I did, since I had the luxury of having my license before my 17th birthday and my parents having an extra car for me to drive there. Not every place has accessible mass transit. Are we now embracing on-line community college courses instead of APs taught by live, union teachers in high schools??
AP tests should be as meaningless as they have always been for the group of privileged students who in the past have been most likely to take AP courses. The results come out months after the class grade and don’t go on a kid’s permanent record.
Any high school in America or any teacher on here can design their own African-American Studies class and teach it in their high schools. Have they? How many high school students had access to a non-AP class like that? Without the nasty DeSantis intervention, a lot more 16 and 17 year olds would have had the chance to take a class like that. Maybe it wouldn’t be as good as the “best” classes,but it also would be better than a lot of the mediocre options that most non-privileged students get now. Or, more likely, nothing at all.
@NYC parent, yes students should have options for many courses, unfortunately I live in a working class community where the poor kids get a “whole lotta nothing” so to get some of my at-risk youth into a community college class (many took the bus or I drove them/colleague drove them) to get them “across the bridge” to higher education was a “first” for them and their families — and they did well! I agree with you — if AP is for you, go for it. And there are great teacher as well. Like I said, I told my son if had the option to bypass AP, but he said too many disciplinary problems in the other same courses; it was nice to be able to focus. I also think there should be more Career Technical Education pathways, art, music, but that is another conversation. Thank you for your insight.
From everything I’ve read and seen for myself, AP courses are usually much higher quality than non-AP high school courses; my daughter and her friends once told me that they regarded non-AP courses as mostly fluff. I attended high school long before AP became available, and I regret to say that many of my classes were not at all challenging for motivated students. When AP provides a better alternative, that’s all to the good.
And no doubt some AP classes are actually much higher quality than some community college classes. If CCs need to lower standards to maintain enrollments, most of them do exactly that; likewise for many four year colleges.
Some kids have logistical challenges for in-person CC classes. There’s a strong argument for bringing college-level classes right into the high schools if the numbers enrolled make that feasible. If the teachers at the school object, too bad: the kids’ interests come first. And there are many high quality online courses offered by both CC and four year colleges. My son took several computer science courses online that were extremely challenging. People in rural areas can benefit from online courses where Internet service makes that possible.
The bottom line: let’s make available various options to best serve high school students. Sometimes that’s AP or IB; sometimes that’s community college or four year college. Kids first.
@Ben — My son said the same thing. He took AP to get away from disciplinary issues. Most of the kids studied at our house, but yes, kids first. Peace out.
Back in my day [almost 60 yrs ago!], our hisch did not have AP classes. But there were the SAT “subject tests,” which, if you scored well on them, could place you out of introductory-level college courses. Thinking I was a real hot s*** in French (my intended major), I took the exam 2 yrs in a row [no joy]. Once I was in college, I was thankful. There is no way that hisch French IV [even in my excellent hisch] could have covered the combined depth and breadth of college-level Fr 201 [Lit] or 203 [Grammar and Composition].
I doubt if a community college would even offer a parallel level of course in something as esoteric as French, but I have no doubt the same principle applies to more commonly-selected courses in math, science, and Eng Lit fields. Dual enrollment seems a far better way to go than AP. AP courses should be viewed as what they really are: what was called in my day “accelerated track.” They are an option for gifted hisch students, which sometimes result in placing out of certain introductory college courses—which may not necessarily be to students’ benefit.
@bethee5 — I am right there with you. I think the kids I went to school with were placed together based on ability, i.e., I tracked with (oops, sorry I mentioned tracked) with the top students, I guess I scored well on something. I was the first one in my family to go to college and we were all very ignorant to much of anything just “do well in school” my mom saved $20 a week since I was a baby to go to college. The big thing ’round here is to offer AP courses (WASC comes in and if you have more offerings it makes the school look good) and if that’s the route kids want to go, then go for it. Just like if I want to be a welder, please give me some metal shop. Uh, what’s that. All I know is I taught at-risk youth at the continuation high school a plethora of subject including my favorite, American Government. On my own dime, I went to Boston to study the US Constitution, studied in the Harvard Law Library and spent 11 days on “constitutional steroids.” I wanted my kids to know that just because we were all at the “crap school” not all kids learn the same or have the same needs, but you don’t have a crap teacher. My kids became voter registrars and everyone who was 18 was registered to vote. And these were kids who were not supposed to care about anything. I really made it a big deal. They knew more about propositions than most adults. I gave them the “Boston Experience” and more. As far as my own son in the AP, he didn’t know how to register to vote or basic law stuff. Because of my teaching situation, I learned more about the Bill of Rights, specifically search and seizure laws. I can only report back on what I lived in the trenches, but kids should have options and I know that those who had the chance to take a course (dual enrollment) rather than take an AP course, earn an A and not pass the exam, so did not receive college credit, dual enrollment still afforded kids some college credit for their merits. I appreciate the dialogue here, but it was all new to me when my sons were in high school. I was supposed to be a welder, be in the military, but I got into Cal Poly SLO as an art major. Peace out.
rcharvet,
You sound like a great teacher! Your students were fortunate to have you!
@NYC parent — I tried my best. So many damn hurdles and walls. Fortunately, I did what was best for my students and ignored the ‘scripted’ way they wanted us to teach — as John Lewis said, “Make good trouble.” Many of my students “the lost kids” are now successful adults. In fact, one of my former “at-risk” kids is now opening his own tap room in our downtown. Another just completed a mural for our downtown and is a successful artist. I had one student (slated for expulsion as long as I worked with him he could finish school) earn a $44K Merit Scholarship to the Art Institute of Chicago — I walked him through the admissions process/eportfolio and talked the the admissions counselor — I would say that was pretty cool. He made it there for a year, but because the school was expensive and his family really had no money. Others have published poetry books. It’s teaching students about their potential and how to think, not what to think. More options and avenues — not one way. Believe it or not, I have taught so many different types of students, I have seen a lot. And one of the things I have seen is misplaced students in AP courses as a “number thing.” I taught many students who failed during the regular semester over the summers (who could barely write coherently/spell/do basic assignments) who were placed in an AP class. I do remember many students were complaining about the level of students who should be in AP and the amount of students who were placed there because the courses are rigorous and the pacing is fast. I mean I wanted to play in the band, but I didn’t know how to play an instrument. All I knew is I studied a hell of a lot more to make sure my students got the best I had to give them in the classroom and beyond. Well, I digress. Thank you for your kind words; I really appreciate them.
AP is a crock!
Ben: regarding dual credit classes:
I think dual credit and AP classes share one unanswered question. Why do we want to make sure that our brightest students get half the classes they used to? College kids used to get US History in high school and then again for two semesters in college. Now so many kids take dual credit Or APP classes that college history departments are hollowed out. Is it really better that our brighter student get half the history?
This may not be the correct place for this comment, but my super-smart niece passed enough AP tests to gain a year’s worth of college credits, so she was able to enter NYU as a sophomore–saved a whole year of tuition & room-&-board, which was a great relief for her & the family (middle class & w/another daughter who’d also be going to college soon, so beneficial for her, as well). It was also of benefit to her as she could skip the 100 level courses & move on, & it gave her more time to work & to volunteer in the law clinic earlier. (She didn’t become a lawyer but did earn a Masters in Public Policy & Administration, & she has been working for non-profits–as well as volunteering–so she’s been able to make positive contributions to society.)
They’re both wonderful people: her sister is–guess what?–a TEACHER (& got there the real way–NOT TFA, majored in Education)! (1st Grade)
As a person who believes in the “human spirit” and adding value to people, it is hard for me to understand the “end game” of these people. I understand what they are doing, but at what cost? Just like in the “X-Files” — the truth is out there and I continue to search. I came across an interesting article you all probably have read, but it is worth posting. As for education, “Truth is required to act freely. Freedom requires knowledge, and in order to act freely in the world, you need to know what the world is and know what you’re doing. You only know what you’re doing if you have access to the truth. So freedom requires truth, and so to smash freedom you must smash truth.” https://www.vox.com/2018/9/19/17847110/how-fascism-works-donald-trump-jason-stanley and see this…https://www.leadersinstitute.com/how-to-manipulate-people-7-signs-of-a-con-artist-you-need-to-know-to-avoid-being-a-victim/. You all are highly intelligent, but just thought I would share.
Go, I wish I could leave Florida. DeSantis us turning it into Oceania. He is using the power of the governor ship to fight his political battles. This thing with the college board isn’t about there being a problem with the college board, it’s about him having a problem with the college board. And he’ll end up getting rid of it at the expense of millions of students in the state. He a self-serving, selfish man.
*God, not Go
DeSantis want to turn Florida into his own personal fiefdom, and residents are little more than his serfs.
We can always hope that elevated sea levels contaminate the Aquifers making Flora -duh inhospitable to human life.
While I find Mr. DeSantis despicable, he is correct that other good quality options exist. But will IB, ACT and the others play his games? Maybe we’ll see.
IB will most certainly not play his game, but on the other hand they wouldn’t introduce a course about Black history in the US at all.
Ravi, that may be a plus for DeSantis. No AP AA course, no substitute
Well, there are worse things than putting an end to the College Board’s monopoly on how people think about college.
Take his ball and go home. Don’t get me wrong. The College Board is awful, but this is just DeSantis having a hissy fit
DeSantis is winning. Selbstgleichschaltung is a multi-faceted concept. Most obviously it means making conscious decisions to align to power before the threats of power are made legal or exercised. But it also has an effect. Those who are targeted for persecution often decide to remove themselves from power as much as possible. It’s not worth the effort to resist change and make things better. Instead, withdraw with like-minded people to try to accomplish what power won’t allow without a great deal of meddling to make sure of adherence to power. A THird way is called “inner exile,” in which people make conscious decisions to stay completely away from public life as possible and try to muddle through and bear witness for future generations. Here’s a great example of all three rolled into one:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stop-woke-act-black-home-school_n_63e51ce9e4b022eb3e2e691f
And as for those who withdraw from the system in order to better access it later, I was reminded by this quote from The Half Has Only Been Told
Frightening and oh so human. The WannabeAutocrat can count on this self-protective response. I recently read “The Oppermanns” [Lion Feuchtwanger, pub. 1933]. Every character in the novel is responding to that in one way or another, and we see where their choices take them.
Feuchtwanger is one of the few writers of the era I have not read, saving Exil for next year. But you are correct. Pick up any good history or novel from the era and it’s kinda like watching early All In the Family episodes. You know it’s dated and from a bygone era, but you wouldn’t have to do much to adapt the script to make it contemporary. It’s more learned and slicker. Instead of open violence and the infrastructure that went with it, there will be “legal” justifications, court “decisions”, and finally, “fair” elections. People will get the message and those who don’t will be violating the law in one way or another and need to be dealt with by the legal process. One of the things that might surprise many about my time in East Germany: other than the border crossings, everything seemed quite normal. Complaints? Yes. But normal.
NOT off topic: The M&Ms “controversy” is horse hockey. M&Ms is owned by Mars Co, run by an ultra conservative family (prone to attack public education). M&Ms was “attacked” by Fox News, an ultra conservative company owned by an ultra conservative billionaire, Rupert Murder, er Murdoch (also prone to attack public education). Does anyone really think the controversy is anything other than a synergistic sales technique developed to hype two conservative brand names in cahoots with each other? Negative press is advertising, after all.
The College Board “controversy” is horse hockey. College Board is an ultra conservative organization run by David Coleman (prone to attack public education). College Board was “attacked” by Ron DeSantis, an ultra conservative to the point of fascist politician (also prone to attack public education). Does anyone really think the controversy is anything other than a synergistic sales technique developed to hype two conservative brand names in cahoots with each other? Negative press is advertising, after all.
Let both “controversies” fade into obscurity. Give them what behaviorists call extinguishing, not reinforcing the behavior — by ignoring it. I do it with misbehavior in class all the time. DeSantis and College Board are two poorly behaved children playing footsie with each other under their desk chairs.
And the Disney v DeSantis thing too. Corporatists of a feather can flock themselves together.
& for those who think the Disney Co. is A-OK (sadly, I think KC QB Patrick Mahomes did the “I’m going to Disneyland!” bit {$$$$} when asked what he was doing next; please correct me if I’m wrong {& I hope I am}). Y’all need to read that terrific book (&, again, sad & sickening} by that FL denizen, Carl Hiaasen, “Team Rodent: How Disney Devours America.”)
Kudos to the (seemingly) one member of the Disney family, Walt’s grandniece & Roy Disney’s granddaughter, Abigail, who publicly speaks out about the less than poor treatment of Disneyland workers. A documentary she co-directed, co-wrote & co-produces, “The American Dream & Other Fairy Tales” debuted this past September.
Abigail Disney started a group called Patriotic Millionaires. It lobbies for higher taxes on the rich.
Abigail Disney is my kind of person! I can’t wait to see the documentary (it’s available on Amazon Prime & Vudu now–says it’s $3.99: I’ll wait till it’s on free & let you all know). Ironically, just received the new Borowitz Report (you can subscribe for free)–today it’s “Elon Musk to Seek Life on Mars & Keep it from Unionizing.” Appropriate.
I think we’d all be happy if he & DeINSANEtis went to Mars & stayed there.
(BTW, Nikki Haley just threw her hat into the GOP 2024 Presidential Race.)
And now, OFF topic: AFT had a town hall about class size just now, featuring Sen Sanders, on Facebook. I don’t and won’t have a Facebook account. If anyone has a recording…
Unfortunately, the adjustments (censorship) exercised by the College Board affect what students are allowed to learn about African American history. It can’t be ignored.
About David Coleman, you are right. It’s a little-known fact that Coleman was a member of the small board of Michelle Rhee’s reactionary Students First, which promoted charters and vouchers, and was anti-union. Coleman was treasurer of Rhee’s board.
!!
I think you mean horse pucky, LCT 😉
Duane’s the authority on this verbiage around here.
That would be “do that job as well,” not “as good,” Mr. Gov from Above with the Harvard Law degree.
See my comments above @ 2:07 & 6:03.
Administrators say that Intl Baccalaureate programs are expensive. IB is a comprehensive program; a student cannot select just one course a la carte, as with AP.
good point!
To paraphrase a too-often-used-but-appropriate-analogy:
You’re worried that maybe AP isn’t that good and CC are ok and dual-credit is ok… the fall’s gonna kill ya!
This man is dangerous. I’m with you on “off topics” – I’ve done so as well, but the playbook should have us all outraged. Well, we are but…
They throw out a problem and see what sticks – label it – and campaign on it. Someone in his sick world probably said,
“Some parents aren’t that crazy about AP classes, let’s look into it and see if we’ve got a live one.”
“Yeh – and these are suburban parents – college bound kids – changes in AP entrance requirements for equity opportunities like affirmative action…”
“You know those AP classes teach critical thinking and pour all these wild liberal ideas into the kids heads.”
“You know those AP classes get kids to question everything instead. Soon that 1619 thing will be in the history curriculum.”
“NO AP – We don’t want kids to think!”
It’s another checklist item to raise mistrust in public schools and swoop in on the “anti-liberal” culture war parade.
Next? Heck, unify all the districts. These are school board issues and if we can’t turn them, get rid of them.
BINGO!
It’s so hard to know how to feel about this. It’s true that the college board exercises too much control over curriculum, and true that this control is undemocratic. Where DeSantis fails is in thinking that a market would provide democratic control. It’s a common failure of imagination from libertarians.
There is something to that, but I don’t see DeSantis as a libertarian. They like govt to butt out, rather than stepping in to put a thumb on the scale. He is an authoritarian and an opportunist. Here he plays to various groups. Those who worship the “strong leader” are pleased. Those who are anti-govt/ elites are perversely pleased [even tho DeS is govt]. The libertarians/ free-market capitalists are mollified by the vague suggestion he may set up a competition among vendors.
Several commenters here have pointed out — correctly, according to the research — that Advanced Placement courses are not educationally beneficial, although the College Board claims – falsely – the opposite.
The College Board produces LOTS of tests — the PSAT, SAT, Accuplacer — that are not very good predictors of anything.
Take, for example, the SAT. As one top college enrollment expert said about his own research on the SAT’s predictive power, “I might as well measure their shoe size.” The thing that the SAT measures best is family income. Colleges use SAT scores for two purposes: to make themselves “look good,” and to leverage financial aid. As Matthew Quirk noted in The Atlantic nearly TWO DECADES ago,
“schools make thousands of decisions based largely on [SAT] test scores…That students are rejected on the basis of income is one of the most closely held secrets in admissions.”
The College Board is happy to help, selling student profiles, and software and “consulting” services “used to set crude wealth and test-score cutoffs.” Guess who gets shafted in this game?
What about Accuplacer? Nearly two-thirds of community collegesuse Accuplacer to place students in “appropriate” courses.
It’s an abymsal failure.
The College Board lauds it, and says that its studies of Accuplacer find it to be a “quality assessment” and says “results” are “reasonable and reassuring.” But independent research conducted on students in community colleges finds that Accuplacer has only “a weak relationship with educational performance,” at best. In fact, too often Accuplacer incorrectly labels students, and 71 % of those who ignore the labeling and take for-credit classes they weren’t supposed to take pass the classes. The College Board STILL sees no problem in calling the test “Accuplacer.”
What about the College Board’s Advanced Placement program? The research is clear. AP is LOTS of hype, but the College Board’s clams for it do not hold up under scrutiny. I’ve written about AP before on this blog, and a summary of some of the research can be found here:
https://dianeravitch.net/2023/02/02/michael-hiltzik-college-board-caves-in-to/#comments
Former Stanford School of Education Dean Deborah Stipek wrote in 2002 that AP courses were nothing more than “test preparation courses,” and they too often “contradict everything we know about engaging instruction.” The National Research Council (2002), in a study of math and science AP courses and tests agreed, writing that “existing programs for advanced study [AP] are frequently inconsistent with the results of the research on cognition and learning.” And a four-year study at the University of California (2004) found that while AP is increasingly an “admissions criterion,” there is no evidence that the number of AP courses taken in high school has any relationship to performance in college.
College Board executives often say that if high schools implement AP courses and encourage more students to take them, then (1) more students will be motivated to go to college and (2) high school graduation rates will increase. Researchers Kristin Klopfenstein and Kathleen Thomas (2010) “conclude that there is no evidence to back up these claims.” Others say that AP credits enable students to graduate EARLY from college and thus save themselves and their parents both time and money.
But, MOST students do NOT want to graduate early, and, as CNBC reported five short years ago, 86 percent of the 153 top colleges in the US restrict AP credits in some way, and “three-quarters of colleges limit which AP subject areas they accept for credit, while 38 percent capped the number of AP credits they award per student. Some will only accept a score of 4, or only accept a 5” (3 is the most common score).
It’s sad that in all the reporting on the College Board-DeSantis feud, very few reporters are telling the truth about the College Board’s products.
“As one top college enrollment expert said about his own research on the SAT’s predictive power, “I might as well measure their shoe size.” The thing that the SAT measures best is family income.”
Well, yes, he can measure shoe size and use it as a proxy for predicting student and it will have the same validity-none as the SAT.
At the same time the SAT doesn’t measure family income. It correlates to it just as one can correlate many things in life and which mean nothing. The SAT measures nothing. It is not a measuring device.
The most misleading concept/term in education is “measuring student achievement” or “measuring student learning”. The concept has been misleading educators into deluding themselves that the teaching and learning process can be analyzed/assessed using “scientific” methods which are actually pseudo-scientific at best and at worst a complete bastardization of rationo-logical thinking and language usage.
There never has been and never will be any “measuring” of the teaching and learning process and what each individual student learns in their schooling. There is and always has been assessing, evaluating, judging of what students learn but never a true “measuring” of it.
But, but, but, you’re trying to tell me that the supposedly august and venerable APA, AERA and/or the NCME have been wrong for more than the last 50 years, disseminating falsehoods and chimeras??
Who are you to question the authorities in testing???
Yes, they have been wrong and I (and many others, Wilson, Hoffman etc. . . ) question those authorities and challenge them (or any of you other advocates of the malpractices that are standards and testing) to answer to the following onto-epistemological analysis:
The TESTS MEASURE NOTHING, quite literally when you realize what is actually happening with them. Richard Phelps, a staunch standardized test proponent (he has written at least two books defending the standardized testing malpractices) in the introduction to “Correcting Fallacies About Educational and Psychological Testing” unwittingly lets the cat out of the bag with this statement:
“Physical tests, such as those conducted by engineers, can be standardized, of course [why of course of course], but in this volume , we focus on the measurement of latent (i.e., nonobservable) mental, and not physical, traits.” [my addition]
Notice how he is trying to assert by proximity that educational standardized testing and the testing done by engineers are basically the same, in other words a “truly scientific endeavor”. The same by proximity is not a good rhetorical/debating technique.
Since there is no agreement on a standard unit of learning, there is no exemplar of that standard unit and there is no measuring device calibrated against said non-existent standard unit, how is it possible to “measure the nonobservable”?
THE TESTS MEASURE NOTHING for how is it possible to “measure” the nonobservable with a non-existing measuring device that is not calibrated against a non-existing standard unit of learning?????
PURE LOGICAL INSANITY!
The basic fallacy of this is the confusing and conflating metrological (metrology is the scientific study of measurement) measuring and measuring that connotes assessing, evaluating and judging. The two meanings are not the same and confusing and conflating them is a very easy way to make it appear that standards and standardized testing are “scientific endeavors”-objective and not subjective like assessing, evaluating and judging.
That supposedly objective results are used to justify discrimination against many students for their life circumstances and inherent intellectual traits.
democracy,
I often agree with you, but I thought this quote bordered on hilariously clueless:
“Former Stanford School of Education Dean Deborah Stipek wrote in 2002 that AP courses were nothing more than “test preparation courses,” and they too often “contradict everything we know about engaging instruction.”
That could describe every high school class. Too often they are test preparation courses. The classwork prepares the kids for the tests they are given in class, often multiple choice tests that teachers have used over and over again. Or a kid writes a paper, just like they do in AP classes, and that paper is graded.
As someone who took the most UNengaging high school classes before APs, your statement is meaningless.
There aren’t any APs in most public middle schools nor for most 9th and 10th graders. I would like to see any measure that classes for 9th and 10th graders are more engaging than the AP classes.
We have folks comparing AP classes to some seminar-based private school. How about comparing it to reality.
And you can’t even blame ed reform,because the classes taught in the 1970s were not particularly engaging. And yes, those classes taught me how to do well on the multiple choice and fill in the blanks tests that the teachers used over and over again.
It would be an excellent thing indeed if the world had never seen the Colemanized SAT, which he should have named the Scholastic CommonCorey Aptitutde Test, or SCAT.
Like all tests based on the CC$$, this one is ridiculous, pseudoscientific. It’s shocking to me that so many educational administrators are such idiots that they would take a piece of garbage like this test at all seriously.
You are correct about Accuplacer and there is lots of research to show why it doesn’t work. Good news is many community colleges have moved away from using Accuplacer.
More Jared Moskowitz. Taking Andrew Gillum’s wonderful line against DeSantis to the next level and beginning to make political capital out of it. Bet the DNC is not listening or pay attention?
It’s also worth sticking around to listen to commentator. Talk about nail/head!
This is why Ron DeSantis is the most dangerous politician in America. He, even more than Trump, has all of the character traits of a ruthless dictator. Has he ever taken a look at the IB curriculum that his high schools love? Far more progressive than AP. Pretty soon, Florida kids will only be able to get Hillsdale College credit.
Let us not forget Todd Huston, the guy paid $475k/yr by College Board who is the Speaker of the Indiana House of representatives that has been behind legislation limiting discussion on US History lest it hurt Johnny and Sally’s feelings:
https://popular.info/p/top-college-board-executive-advocates
See my 9 am post tomorrow to find out who has their feelings hurt when history is taught accurately and honestly.
I tweeted that. Amazing. Is this even legal or ethical?