In 2014, Russia invaded Ukraine and took control of the Crimean Peninsula, which was then absorbed into Russia. Presently, Putin has stationed at least 100,000 troops on Ukrainian borders, and leaders in the West are fearful that he intends to invade and seize control of all Ukraine. Ukraine has a long and terrible history under Russian control. In the late 1920s and 1930s, Stalin collectivized Ukrainian agriculture and sent troops to export Ukrainian crops to Russia. Millions of Ukrainians were killed or starved to death in the ensuing famine. Historian Robert Conquest wrote a history of these events callled Harvest of Sorrow. It is a terrifying history. Today, it appears that Vladimir Putin wants to reassemble the Soviet Union. He once called its dissolution the worst geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century.
Here are the views of Britain’s Secretary of Defence.
Secretary of State for Defence Ben Wallace discusses NATO, Ukraine and Russia.

Defence Secretary in Olsztyn, Poland.
I have lost count of how many times recently I have to had to explain the meaning of the English term “straw man” to my European allies. That is because the best living, breathing “straw man” at the moment is the Kremlin’s claim to be under threat from NATO. In recent weeks the Russian Defence Minister’s comment that the US is “preparing a provocation with chemical components in eastern Ukraine” has made that “straw man” even bigger.
It is obviously the Kremlin’s desire that we all engage with this bogus allegation, instead of challenging the real agenda of the President of the Russian Federation. An examination of the facts rapidly puts a match to the allegations against NATO.
First, NATO is, to its core, defensive in nature. At the heart of the organisation is Article 5 that obliges all members to come to the aid of a fellow member if it is under attack. No ifs and no buts. Mutual self-defence is NATO’s cornerstone. This obligation protects us all. Allies from as far apart as Turkey and Norway; or as close as Latvia and Poland all benefit from the pact and are obliged to respond. It is a truly defensive alliance.
Second, former Soviet states have not been expanded ‘into’ by NATO, but joined at their own request. The Kremlin attempts to present NATO as a Western plot to encroach upon its territory, but in reality the growth in Alliance membership is the natural response of those states to its own malign activities and threats.
Third, the allegation that NATO is seeking to encircle the Russian Federation is without foundation. Only five of the thirty allies neighbour Russia, with just 1/16th of its borders abutted by NATO. If the definition of being surrounded is 6% of your perimeter being blocked then no doubt the brave men who fought at Arnhem or Leningrad in the Second World War would have something strong to say about it.
It is not the disposition of NATO forces but the appeal of its values that actually threatens the Kremlin. Just as we know that its actions are really about what President Putin’s interpretation of history is and his unfinished ambitions for Ukraine.
We know that because last summer he published, via the official Government website, his own article “On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians”. I urge you to read it, if you have time, because while it is comprehensive on his arguments it is short on accuracy and long on contradictions.
We should all worry because what flows from the pen of President Putin himself is a seven-thousand-word essay that puts ethnonationalism at the heart of his ambitions. Not the narrative now being peddled. Not the straw man of NATO encroachment. It provides the skewed and selective reasoning to justify, at best, the subjugation of Ukraine and at worse the forced unification of that sovereign country.
President Putin’s article completely ignores the wishes of the citizens of Ukraine, while evoking that same type of ethnonationalism which played out across Europe for centuries and still has the potential to awaken the same destructive forces of ancient hatred. Readers will not only be shocked at the tone of the article but they will also be surprised at how little NATO is mentioned. After all, is NATO ‘expansionism’ not the fountain of all the Kremlin’s concerns? In fact, just a single paragraph is devoted to NATO.
The essay makes in it three claims. One: that the West seeks to use division to “rule” Russia. Two: that anything other than a single nation of Great Russia, Little Russia and White Russia (Velikorussians, Malorussians, Belorussians) in the image advanced in the 17th Century is an artificial construct and defies the desires of a single people, with a single language and church. Third, that anyone who disagrees does so out of a hatred or phobia of Russia.
We can dispense with the first allegation. No one wants to rule Russia. It is stating the obvious that just like any other state it is for the citizens of a country to determine their own future. Russia’s own lessons from such conflicts as Chechnya must surely be that ethnic and sectarian conflicts cost thousands of innocent lives with the protagonists getting bogged down in decades of strife.
As for Ukraine, Russia itself recognised the sovereignty of it as an independent country and guaranteed its territorial integrity, not just by signing the Budapest Memorandum in 1994 but also its Friendship Treaty with Ukraine itself in 1997. Yet it is the Kremlin not the West that set about magnifying divisions in that country and several others in the Europe. It has been well documented the numerous efforts of the GRU and other Russian agencies to interfere in democratic elections and domestic disputes is well documented. The divide and rule cap sits prettiest on Moscow’s head not NATO’s.
Probably the most important and strongly believed claim that Ukraine is Russia and Russia is Ukraine is not quite as presented. Ukraine has been separate from Russia for far longer in its history than it was ever united. Secondly the charge that all peoples in Belarus, Russia and Ukraine are descendants of the ‘Ancient Rus’ and are therefore somehow all Russians. But in reality, according to historian Professor Andrew Wilson in his excellent essay for RUSI entitled “Russia and Ukraine: ‘One People’ as Putin Claims?” they are at best “kin but not the same people”. In the same way Britain around 900AD consisted of Mercia, Wessex, York, Strathclyde and other pre-modern kingdoms, but it was a civic nation of many peoples, origins and ethnicities that eventually formed the United Kingdom.
If you start and stop your view of Russian history between 1654 and 1917 then you can fabricate a case for a more expansive Russia, perhaps along the lines of the motto of the Russian Tsar before the Russian Empire “Sovereign of all of Rus: the Great, the Little, and the White” – Russia, Ukraine and Belarus respectively. And crucially you must also forget the before and after in history. You must ignore the existence of the Soviet Union, breaking of the Russian-Ukrainian Friendship Treaty, and the occupation of Crimea. Far more than footnotes in history, I am sure you will agree.
Ironically, President Putin himself admits in his essay that “things change: countries and communities are no exception. Of course, some part of a people in the process of its development, influenced by a number of reasons and historical circumstances, can become aware of itself as a separate nation at a certain moment. How should we treat that? There is only one answer: with respect!” However, he then goes on to discard some of those “historical circumstances” to fit his own claims.
Dubious to say the least, and not in anyway a perspective that justifies both the occupation of Crimea (in the same way Russia occupied Crimea in 1783 in defiance of the Russo-Turkish Treaty of Kuchuk-Kainarji in 1774) or any further invasion of modern Ukraine, as an independent sovereign country.
The last charge against the West by many in the Russian Government is that those who disagree with the Kremlin are somehow Russophobes. Leaving aside that GRU officers deployed nerve agents on British streets or that cyber hacking and targeted assassinations emanate from the Russian state, nothing could be further than the truth.
Russia and the UK share a deep and often mutually beneficial history. Our allegiances helped to finally defeat Napoleon and later Hitler. Outside of conflict, across the centuries we shared technology, medicine and culture. During the 18th Century Russia and Britain were deeply tied. Between 1704 to 1854, from age of Peter the Great through Catherine the Great and well into the 19th Century the British were to be found as admirals, generals, surgeons, and architects at the highest level of the Russian Court. The father of the Russian Navy – one Samuel Greig – was born in Inverkeithing in Fife.
That shared admiration is still true today. The British Government is not in dispute with Russia and the Russian people – far from it – but it does take issue with the malign activity of the Kremlin.
So, if one cold January or February night Russian Military forces once more cross into sovereign Ukraine, ignore the ‘straw man’ narratives and ‘false flag’ stories of NATO aggression and remember the President of Russia’s own words in that essay from last summer. Remember it and ask yourself what it means, not just for Ukraine, but for all of us in Europe. What it means the next time…
“The Harvest of Sorrow is the first full history of one of the most horrendous human tragedies of the 20th century.
Between 1929 and 1932 the Soviet Communist Party struck a double blow at the Russian peasantry: dekulakization, the dispossession and deportation of millions of peasant families,collectivization, the abolition of private ownership of land and the concentration of the remaining peasants in party-controlled “collective” farms.
This was followed in 1932-33 by a “terror-famine,” inflicted by the State on the collectivized peasants of the Ukraine and certain other areas.
Setting impossibly high grain quotas, removing every other source of food, and preventing help from outside–even from other areas of the Soviet Union–from reaching the starving populace. The death toll resulting from the actions was an estimated 14.5 million–more than the total number of deaths for all countries in World War I.”
Another recommended book about that area and time period is “Bloodlands” by Timothy Snyder. Heart wrenching book.
The term “panslavism” is rarely used today, the belief that all Slavic nations should live under one flag. The late Hans Kohn, an historian of nationalism, a Czech by birth and a CCNY professor has written extensively about the belief; Putin is waving the flag, wanting to restore the panslavic empire, a glory of a failed past. Whether the Boyars of the Middle Ages, the Tsars, Stalin or Putin dreams of a greater Russia dances in their dreams … in reality Russia is a failed nation and Putin is waving the “bloody flag,” a dangerous game.
Always good advice: https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/if-you-havent-researched-arguments
“They are not difficult to find once you’ve decided you want to find them, as long as you’re open to venturing outside your own self-reinforcing echo chamber.”
That comment says it all!
Coming from a writer and source who never venture outside of their own self-reinforcing echo chamber, I think it says much more than you imply.
GregB,
Joel and I had a conversation of how the far right and other purveyors of propaganda always accuses their enemies of doing what they do. That propaganda works on many people, as is very evident.
“self-reinforcing echo chamber”. Yep.
The diminution of meaning in language to create confusion and make it meaningless in popular culture is a conscious tactic. I have noted over the past 10 years or so a trend that is accelerating and becoming more refined: the immediate and continued overuse of the same words used against them against their opponents. They take accurate language that describes what the right is doing and by using exactly the same words–although they do not actually knows what it means–to make them completely meaning less. Although this is a bit dated, it is a good example of what I mean. The questioner begins at 4:48 but really gets to the point I make at 8:34:
That video is both hilarious and depressing. I have often wished that reporters would ask The Idiot, when he refers to Soci4alism, what Socialism means.
Thank you! I now accept that Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are lying about Xinjiang and Caitlin Johnstone believes that the Uyghurs are being treated exactly as they deserve and anyone who criticizies them must be silenced because Caitlin Johnstone approves of how they are treated.
I now accept that Russia’s incursion in the Ukraine is necessary to prevent the rise of Nazism.
Thank you for unbrainwashing us all with your Orwellian “truth” about how we should never ever trust anything said by Amnesty and Human Rights Watch (unless it can be used to promote the Republican POV).
Where was the anger against Trump during all the drone strikes he made? Where was the concern for people he killed? I won’t question the one-sided concern for human life because when it comes to trusting Human Rights Watch or Caitlin Johnstone, I know who is the truth-teller.
Well, of course, then we have President Putin’s deep respect for human life.
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/01/23/ukraine-crisis-german-navy-chief-resigns-britain-spreads-fears-of-russian-coup-wider-war/
Just to clarify, is your point of view that Russia SHOULD invade Ukraine?
Are you allowed to go on record as saying it is absolutely wrong for Russia to invade Ukraine, or is that verboten?
Are you allowed to go on record saying that what is happening to the Uyghurs is wrong, or is that verboten?
What I find shocking is the hypocrisy.
It is just as complicit to stand back and try to silence those who care about human rights abuses. People don’t get a pass for caring “more” about human life when they play down the human rights abuses for political gain.
I respect anyone who wanted the US to leave Afghanistan. But I don’t respect their scapegoating of someone else when it was their decision to sacrifice some people’s lives for their political goals.
Own it.
Germany depends on Russia for its energy supply. Germany will do nothing to offend Putin.
Yup. The Molotov-Ribbentrop (Oops, did I say that? Nord Stream) pipelines
Not just Germany, Finland and France depend on Russian oil and gas as well.
Russia may be a “failed nation” but we all know that Putin is the recipient of more “privileged” Twitter feeds than the rest of us peasants. He is not simply dreaming of ancient, deathly Glory Days.
He has read the rather detailed, scientific descriptions of Pandemic & Climate Change-induced disruptions of fossil fuel production, food supply chains, natural resource accessibility, transportation + air&water quality. He knows that to land on the top of the heap, controlling a huge percentage of these will leave him sitting pretty in the Catbird Seat.
A very good public school curriculum would help students of Earth problem solve on how to share resources equitably, avoiding global/regional crisis and chaos. But that is not Putin’s Course of Study. His path is the antithesis of all we educators believe in and stand for. Harvest Of Sorrow details a course of events that failed humanity.
I’d love to be able to show this post to Lucius Clay and see his reaction:
https://crooksandliars.com/2022/01/rep-malinowski-after-watching-tucker-fans
Republicans and their enablers today: traitors, racists and fascists all.
Tucker just adores strong men. I almost wrote big, strong men, but we’re talking Putin here.
Let’s just go with Dienne’s premise here, for a moment, to see if it holds up. Putin just wants to protect the motherland (“What if Russia had nuclear missiles in Mexico?” she asks). If that were so, why this? Why the planning for invasion of Ukraine instead of a call for international talks on demilitarization, de-escalation, and arms control?
Why the military parades the endless talk of his superior hypersonic missiles? Why asking his Agent Orange, the Idiot, to withdraw from the INF and Open Skies treaties? Why the Useful Idiot’s frequent insistence that he wanted to see the U.S. out of NATO?
“Why the planning for invasion of Ukraine instead of a call for international talks on demilitarization, de-escalation, and arms control?”
EXCELLENT questions!
I will fall off my chair if you get a reply.
That’s why she and Caitlin Johnstone are such propaganda purveyors. I have to think it is intentional, because it’s hard to believe they could simply be so brainwashed or ignorant.
Look at how they constantly attack the west for not doing this, and then give a complete pass to leaders like Putin who hate democracy?
The principle in international law that it is criminal to fail to respect the territorial integrity of other states is fundamental. It can be violated only by international forces mobilized by the U.N., using weapons and personnel of member states under U.N. leadership, to address other violations of fundamental international law (e.g., genocide). And before Dienne pipes in here, let me say, straight up, that the U.S. has also violated this principle many times. Whataboutism doesn’t make the violation in this case OK.
My post appeared then disappeared – very strange.
Bob, I just posted that these are EXCELLENT questions.
I doubt you will get any answers.
Thanks, NYCPSP!
Possible answer to first question in second paragraph? – Because compensating with an Italian sports car is too obvious?
LMAO. Though the shirtless horseback riding seems to have worked.
Wondering, here, whether a Chinese invasion of Taiwan will happen at the same time as the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The Ukraine situation is dominating the news, but if it weren’t occurring, the escalation of rhetoric and provocation on the other front would be the headline right now.
We are living in an extremely dangerous time.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/01/25/isnt-it-obvious-observations-on-the-ukraine-crisis/
Duane, I did you the courtesy of reading the article. And I got scared because I respect you but you seem to believe a lie promoted by the right wing.
Biden was not elected to “stave off socialism”
Biden was elected to stave off FASCISM. Biden was elected by people who were socialist and who hated socialism who all believed in DEMOCRACY.
The fact that you cannot see that at all is exactly why our country is in such trouble.
Are you living in a part of America where your neighbors are demanding socialism and it’s the evil democrats preventing it? Or are you living in America where your neighbors are demanding to be armed to stave off those “socialists” who have taken over the Democratic party?
Are your neighbors big fans of AOC and the squad, or repeating right wing talking points about “socialism”?
Biden was elected to stave off FASCISM. That is something that the majority of Americans agreed on but I do know that there are certain posters on here (and I don’t know if you are one of them) that were not concerned with the future of democracy in our country.
All true however in order to maintain power Democrats will have to bring their base out in huge numbers Something they were not able to do in the off year election. We are not them did not work on Long Island or Virginia. Those upset with Biden’s /Democrats socialist agenda were never ever going to vote for them .
You or I may habitually go to the polls and vote for Democracy, as disappointed as I may be . Will those who were hoping for change come out in the numbers needed.
We are doomed
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/01/23/ukraine-crisis-german-navy-chief-resigns-britain-spreads-fears-of-russian-coup-wider-war/
Poor, poor Vlad. He has to threaten war against Ukraine just to get respect. Thousands of people will die so that Vlad gets respect. He has got the German navy chief convinced that if Russia invades Ukraine, it is not Russia’s fault. It is the fault of the Western nations, which didn’t respect Vlad. Please don’t blame Vlad for launching an invasion. What choice did he have? Like bringing his troops home?
exactly
Duane,
Just to be clear on your view, is it possible that Neville Chamberlain was right all along? That the world would have been better had Neville Chamberlain’s appeasement strategy had wider popular support through the late 1930s, early 1940s instead of warmongering Winston Churchill?
What are you advocating as a good response by NATO to Putin’s threat to the Ukraine?
Do nothing? Sanctions that hurt people?
What are you advocating NATO countries doing when a powerful country makes threats about invading another country?
Nothing?
I don’t want war. I just want to understand how far you are good with Putin going while folks demand that everyone else not say anything that might make Putin too mad?
What should Biden say to Putin now? “Go right ahead, we don’t care?”
Is appeasement the best strategy for dealing with Russia and China. Because I know that the people who hate what NATO is doing are the same ones that also hate sanctions because they affect many people.
Having a pro-appeasement POV is perfectly acceptable as long as those who advocate appeasement take the same responsibilty for all the deaths and tragedy their pro-appeasement view causes as they demand others take when they rattle a saber to try to prevent a military confrontation.
I know that Neville Chamberlain had the best of intentions to stop a war. But sometimes the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and the millions of mass executed Jews and other undesirables may not have had lives as valuable as British or American soldiers, but at least acknowledge that appeasement has a very high cost, too.
NYCPSP. Surely this is NOT what you meant to say:
“the millions of mass executed Jews and other undesirables may not have had lives as valuable as British or American soldiers”
Bob,
My great grandparents died in the Holocaust.
I was invoking that point as something that those who would have supported the Neville Chamberlain/Charles Lindbergh appeasement strategy toward Hitler seemed to believe.
Here was a speech that anti-War “American First Committee” leader Charles Lindbergh made in Iowa, in September 1941, when Hitler’s incursions in Europe and the horrible treatment of Jews in Germany was already well-known (albeit perhaps not the full extent of their genocidal intent).
“Announcing that it was time to “name names,” Lindbergh decided to identify what he saw as the pressure groups pushing the U.S. into war against Germany. “The three most important groups who have been pressing this country toward war are the British, the Jewish and the Roosevelt Administration.” Of the Jews, he went on to say, “Instead of agitating for war, Jews in this country should be opposing it in every way, for they will be the first to feel its consequences. Their greatest danger to this country lies in their large ownership and influence in our motion pictures, our press, our radio and our government.”
I was referring to those who took a strong anti-war stance as Hitler continued his incursions into Europe, because obviously the lives of some people did not hold much value to them.
Any chance that either dienne77 or Duane will explain what they believe is the policy Biden should take when Putin threatens Ukraine?
Appeasement? That has very bad consequences, too.
^^but I acknowledge that you are correct, Bob, and the construct of that paragraph is flawed.
Click to access prayer.pdf
Duane,
Yes, that prayer was the kind of thing invoked when people believed they were acting in a morally superior way by allowing Hitler to do whatever he wanted because “war is bad”.
It disappoints me if you can’t also acknowledge that standing back and doing nothing while atrocities happen because someone else is conducting a war on them isn’t a morally superior choice. It is just a choice, one that will also result in needless death.
We all do that. War causes immeasurably harm. But sitting back and watching someone else conducting war and committing atrocities on other people while you do nothing is not morally superior to using economic sanctions or saber rattling or even military intervention trying to prevent that from happening.
It is just a different choice.
Let’s be clear about what we are talking about here. We are talking about horrors. Unnecessary horrors, with particular persons able to make them happen or not.
And once the one guy says, OK, let’s go, all the arguments, which are just talk, become meaningless. All that there is, is the horror. And this person’s criminal culpability for it.
Oc, this is my POV. In the world generally, such evil, and it is evil, is followed by rationalization, by apologia
Ukraine, Tiawan–either would be bloodbaths
either would be a bloodbath
Sorry, I am not articulating this well. When (IF) this happens, nothing else will matter in comparison to the unnecessary horror.
Off topic- Jerry Falwell Jr. is reportedly telling media that Trump asked him to be Ed. Sec.
I would have preferred Jerry to Betsy. The drip, drip, drip of his scandals would have made clearer how poor Trump’s decision making was.
So instead of moralizing, I would like to hear some short concise predictions on how this plays out. Ukraine has received it’s 2nd batch of weapons from the US. Putin has moved 175,00 troops near the border of Ukraine. What happens next?
Good question. What do you think happens next? And does the US policy favor appeasing Putin at all costs, or is there any time that the US should act?
Our politicians have been attacked for guessing wrong about when to act, by people who don’t want to take responsibility for what would have happened had the politician taken the other path.
I imagine that had Hitler only decided to annihilate 6 miliion Jews in Eastern Europe but left England and France alone, some would probably say that Neville Chamberlain was right.
What do you think ArtsSmart? What are your predictions of how this plays out? As long as we all acknowledge our complicity in how the choice you made plays out, it is reasonable to have a difference of opinion. Many people thought Neville Chamberlain was right. At first.
I say either a limited occupation of Ukraine by Russia or repeated attacks on the US missile systems by Russia. NATO won’t respond militarily and the US won’t respond in order to avoid a nuclear war.
Russia doesn’t do temporary occupations. Putin wants to restore the USSR. Poland, Hungary, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania must be terrified. Which will be next?
ArtsSmart,
So that is the outcome you prefer? If so, is Biden doing everything you want to achieve that outcome you want that you described above?
And if you want a different outcome, what would you like Biden to do to achieve that outcome?
What is a good outcome for you? And what do you want the US to do to achieve that good outcome?
If you support the Neville Chamberlain appeasement strategy when Putin threatens to invade Ukraine and Biden does listen to people who believe Putin must be appeased at all costs, you may very well get that outcome that you describe above, and presumably you would be happy.
I am not sure I like that outcome you describe, so I would want Biden to do something other than appeasing Putin. It may not work, but simply signalling that Putin can do whatever he wants was not a good idea in the late1930s and is not a good now.
For eight years, I have watched this escalate, and I am praying that the USA & NATO do not get involved, even if Russia invades and takes control of the Donbas Region of the Ukraine. When Russia invaded (the former Soviet) Georgia, President Bush did nothing. When Russia invaded and seized the Crimean Peninsula, President Obama did nothing. I am hoping that President Biden follows the same exact record of doing nothing. All you war hawks don’t realize that this will be an irreversible bloodbath, with hundreds of thousands of American, NATO, Russian troops, and Ukrainian civilians dead, resulting in a complete stalemate, unless it goes nuclear, in which case, we can all bend over and kiss our asses goodbye.
I agree!
ArtsSmart, if I understand you that your goal is “a limited occupation of Ukraine by Russia or repeated attacks on the US missile systems by Russia” and you think “doing nothing” will achieve your goal, then I have to agree that your “do nothing” policy will likely lead to Russia occupying Ukraine indefinitely. You make an excellent suggestion if that is your goal. Appeasement always makes for happy dictators.
Do you think that there are only 2 choices: appeasement and being a “war hawk”?
And wondering if there is any point where you would want to something other than demonstrating that Putin is free to invade European countries as he chooses?
And as for your ignorant statement “President Obama did nothing”, you seem to unaware that the US has various sanctions on Russia because of the Crimea invasion, that have targeted Russia’s oligarchs (of which Putin is one).
You may think Obama “did nothing” but Putin’s lapdog Trump worked to end all of those sanctions for years, so obviously Putin is well aware of them.
But thank you for pointing out that the US needs to do a lot more and hit Russia with much harder sanctions!
Thank you, seanglenn47, for supporting much harsher sanctions on Russia like cutting off access to SWIFT banking!
Thank you, seanglenn47, for making it clear that harsher sanctions would be welcome by you, since you have stated for the record that the sanctions that Obama imposed were “nothing” and therefore the US must impose much harsher financial penalties.
You make so many excellent suggestions on how to punish Putin without using the military and you are correct that much harsher financial sanctions against Putin would be a wonderful idea!
Thank you for bringing that up, seanglenn47 and I hope the Russians read your suggestions and respect your bringing up the subject of very harsh financial sanctions on Putin.
I doubt that Putin is seeking, this time, a limited incursion to gain another bit of territory. It looks as though he plans to install a puppet government in Kyiv.
I believe Putin’s intention is to create chaos close to the mid-term elections in The US. He has his warm-water port in the Crimea. He has a defenseless Ukraine on his western border. He is too smart to risk a costly hegemony struggle for nothing. He was inactive so long as Trump was president.
I’m having a difficult time making any sense of this. Already, Europe has gotten from Putin’s actions the message, loud and clear, that it must develop energy independence from Russia. Since half of Russian GDP is in petroleum and natural gas, the long-term consequences of this for Russia are dire. And the threatened incursion into Ukraine is resulting, predictably, in more buildup of forces in former Soviet and now NATO states, not less.
That is why I think this is political sabatoge
Of course it is. And the so-called liberal media are once again Putin’s complicit tools. After all, half the country says “we can’t use military force, it’s evil” and the other half says “you aren’t using enough force”. The one thing both sides agree upon is that any action Biden takes will be absolutely wrong and another sign of his incompetence.
That’s why I asked Duane and dienne77 what it is they want Biden to do, and if they will accept responsibility for all the harm that decision causes. Because there are no good choices here when dealing with an authoritarian leader who poisons his political opponents and decides he wants to make incursions into other countries with very flawed but somewhat more functioning democracies.
In 1941, there were folks in the US like Charles Lindbergh who were still demanding “peace” and “we should do nothing”.
Had the US done what they demanded, that choice of “peace” would have led to arguably as much death and horror as the choice to go to war to stop an aggressive fascist.
Charles Lindbergh’s view wasn’t morally superior to FDRs view. It’s just a willingness to sacrifice different people.
and even if Russia were wildly successful in its Ukrainian campaign, it would be so only at a staggering cost and a hardened resolve among Ukrainians for asymmetric, continued resistance. This would be another Afghanistan.
His plan is starting to pay dividends.
https://crooksandliars.com/2022/01/rep-malinowski-after-watching-tucker-fans
Our Wild Irish Fishermen Are Preparing To Protest Russian Navy Presence In Irish Fishing Waters By Lobbing Big Kegs Of Guinness And Lots Of Irish Courage
Anti-Russia propaganda is getting sillier by the day. US/NATO claims that Ukraine can ally with the West. Alas, when Cuba wanted to ally with the Soviet Union, the US responded with economic sanctions, an attempted invasion, and attempts to assassinate Cuba’s leadership. NATO assured the world that it wouldn’t expand into Eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet Union. Now that NATO signals its intent on extending to Russia’s borders, Russia responds by seeking to protect itself, if not its sphere of influence, from US/NATO aggression. Perhaps the US should focus on its own backyard, rather than engage in another attempt to expand its empire. There are no “good guys” involved in this story.
Ukraine is a sovereign nation. It makes its own decisions about whether or not to join NATO. Putin is a very bad guy who murders journalists and dissidents. The leader of the opposition to Putin is in prison.
As long as Julian Assange remains in prison, the U.S. can’t claim the high ground in its defense of journalists.
I think we can claim the high ground in our treatment of journalists. Journalists don’t worry about being murdered by order of the president, as they do in Russia and some other countries. I can’t forget that Julian Assange helped to elect Trump. But if he stands trial in the US, I expect he will walk free on First Amendment grounds. If he ran afoul of Putin, he would have been murdered long ago.
Russia “should focus on its own backyard” and not plot for Trump presidencies in 2016, 2020 and 2024, not have a propaganda machine in the U.S staffed with Bannon and Carlson et al, not form a relationship with the NRA and, not try to foment a race war in the U.S.
The Russian people should get behind democracy instead of Putin, who enjoys performative masculinity and kills his enemies.
Russian interference had no significant effect on the outcome of the 2016 or 2020 elections for POTUS. It’s a known fact that the U.S. has interfered in the national elections of dozens of countries. I’m guessing that the citizens of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria have strong opinions regarding U.S. respect for democracy. Perhaps it’s time for the U.S. to stop engaging in destructive regime change wars and focus on practicing democracy at home–for a change.
James Eales says:
“Perhaps it’s time for the U.S. to stop engaging in destructive regime change wars and focus on practicing democracy at home–for a change.”
James Eales, you make a very convincing argument that the Republican Party is as dangerous – if not more dangerous – an enemy of our country’s democracy than Putin is.
James Eales, thank you for reminding us how vital it is that we all work to defeat and marginalize the Republican Party if we don’t want our own country’s democracy violently destroyed by Republican fascists.
James Eales, are right that the Republican Party is arguably as much danger to this country as Putin is and you are right to point out that Putin clearly hopes to destroy this country using the Republican party to do it.
Putin murders his political rivals (poison) like he’s some 500 year throwback to brutal and barbaric times.
During the twenty-first century, no country has killed more innocent civilians than the U.S. in its regime change wars. Using drones and economic sanctions to kill people isn’t any less ‘brutal and barbaric’ than using poison.
James Eales,
Now you are condoning killing off political rivals? Do you also condone the Republicans trying to violently overturn an election to install their own candidate?
If you actually cared about democracy in this country, you would be posting here about how everyone needs to focus on defeating and disempowering the Republican Party – which is the biggest danger to our country’s democracy.
James, I hear a lot of criticism of the US. But I’m still waiting for you to criticize Putin.
If you can’t criticize Putin – regardless of how you feel about the US – then you clearly are just one of his trolls.
And your condoning poisoning political rivals and jailing critics because you aren’t allowed to say anything bad about Putin is despicable.
Nowhere in my comments have I condoned poisoning political rivals and jailing critics. Suggesting that I have is very silly. I’m not a Russian citizen; therefore, it’s not my duty to hold Russian politicians accountable. I am an American citizen; therefore, I have a right to use my voice to hold elected/appointed government officials accountable for their words and actions. I am appalled by the death and destruction that have resulted from regime change wars around the world, and I’d like leaders of both major political parties to endeavor to reduce the amount of violence needlessly taking place. War is despicable.
Superb reporting by Matthew Brown of USA Today on the Ukraine Crisis:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/will-russia-invade-ukraine-talks-timing-desire-for-a-long-fight-factor-into-strategy/ar-AATlTHS?ocid=msedgntp
Key point: This will not be quick and easy for would-be Tsar of All the Russias Vladimir Vladimirovich