Trump and Barr have warned about the dangers of a group called “Antifa.” I had never heard of them and don’t know anyone who belongs to this group. I did a small amount of digging and learned that Antifa means “anti-fascist.”
That confused me. How can it be wrong to be anti-fascism?
Hitler and Mussolini were fascists.
We fought a world war from 1941-1945 to save the world from fascism.
During World War II, there were pro-fascist people in America.
The current American fascists are the Ku Klux Klan, white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and armed militias like those that stormed the Michigan State Capitol to protest public health measures to protect against the spread of the coronavirus. Fascists threaten their fellow citizens with military-type assault weapons. Fascists use extra-legal means to subvert the rule of law and to intimidate people of color and those who oppose them. Fascists want to make America a white a Christian nation where none is welcome who is either white nor Christian.
I oppose fascism. I support the efforts to suppress fascism.
I support the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. I believe in democracy and the rule of law. I believe in equal justice under law for all. I believe in pursuing the goal of equality of educational opportunity. I know we are far from our ideals and values. I believe in pursuing them, not abandoning them.
I am a proud anti-fascist.
Are you?
If you have Prime, I do hope those of you who are like-minded with the sentiments above will spend the $2.99 it costs to watch the Studs Terkel-narrated The Good Fight and admittedly a bit one-sided view of the American Abraham Lincoln Brigade in the Spanish Civil War. They’ll make you proud to be an anti-fascist. You’ll also learn where the term “premature anti-fascist” comes from.
I agree. Overlooked, WWII Purple Heart Veteran, Hosea Williams was Anti-Fascist when wounded in France. One of America’s first Black Superintendents of a Public School County and District, Greene County, AL, (1970-1980), Dr. Robert Brown, defeated the NAZI – Fascists at the Battle of the Bulge. They were WWII heroes, not “Losers or Suckers” – they were ANTIFA.
Anti fascist….yes! The problem is that Antifa is considered to be like the Black Panthers of the late 60’s early 70’s. It’s the fact that it’s an organized group with a mission statement towards racial justice (socialism) that makes it “scary” for some white folks.
You mean the Black Panthers who fed poor kids and provided day camps? The ones who were murdered by the police regardless of whether they were peaceful or not? The ones who history has smeared just as Antifa is now being smeared?
Feeding poor kids was not the primary mission of the Black Panthers, and you know it. They were an armed militia, the opposite side of the white armed militias that are now fighting BLM. Don’t romanticize them.
Don’t let extremists corrupt the language.
You are both right! Black Panthers did provide food and day camp services to poor black kids all while protecting them with guns. They took the heat in the black communities. Strange and scary times then…..and now.
As far as I have heard, there is no “group” called Antifa complete with mission statement. If so, they sure have done a good job of not letting anyone speak for them, i.e. as in leadership. The fact that “they” are “scary” is what has prompted Trump and his minions to invent this evil cabal. Funny. I never realized that my father was a member of an evil, socialist cabal. I don’t think he equated his service in WWII with anything other than defeating the fascist movement led by Germany/Hitler.
Being “against fascism” does not (necessarily) mean you are “Antifa,” just like being “against racism” (necessarily) does not mean you are “anti-racist” or like being in favor of life does not (necessarily) mean you are “pro-life.”
One can nitpick, but these couple intro paragraphs from the Wikipedia entry on “Antifa” seem more or less accurate.
<
blockquote> Antifa (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈæntiˌfɑː/)[1] is a left-wing, anti-fascist political movement in the United States[2][3][4][5] comprising an array of autonomous[6][7] groups that aim to achieve their objectives through the use of both nonviolent and violent direct action rather than through policy reform.[8][9][10][11] Described as a highly decentralized movement, antifa political activists are anti-racists who engage in protest tactics, seeking to combat fascists and racists such as neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other far-right extremists.[12] This may sometimes involve digital activism,[13] harassment, militancy,[8] physical violence and property damage against those whom they identify as belonging to the far-right.[14][15][16][17] Antifa involvement in violent actions against far-right opponents and the police has led some scholars to characterize the movement as far-left[7][18][19][20] and militant.[21][22][23][24]
Individuals involved in the movement tend to hold anti-authoritarian[25] and anti-capitalist views,[26] subscribing to a range of left-wing ideologies such as anarchism, communism, Marxism, social democracy and socialism.[27][28][29][30][31] Both the name antifa and the logo with two flags representing anarchism and communism are derived from the German Antifa movement.[32] Antifa actions have received both criticism and praise.[33][34] Conspiracy theories about antifa which tend to inaccurately portray antifa as a single organization with leaders and secret sources of funding have been spread by right-wing activists, media organisations and politicians, including Trump administration officials.[35][36][37][38] There have been multiple efforts to discredit antifa groups via hoaxes on social media, many of them false flag attacks originating from alt-right and 4chan users posing as antifa backers on Twitter.[39][40][41] Some hoaxes have been picked up and reported as fact by right-leaning media.[39][42][43]
<
blockquote>
Oops, messed up my close tag on the blockquote. Oh well.
I take Wikipedia entries with a bucket of salt.
I am a proud anti-fascist.
Don’t hog that bucket!
Good practice. But those two paragraphs are a fair characterization from what I’ve read.
No matter what Wikipedia says, I am still anti-fascist.
I’m also against fascism. (Although I’m not Antifa.)
Gotta assume Diane’s post intends to raise consciousness about the way it45 and fellow travelers sneak the term Antifa in whenever citizens protest against over-the-top police actions. Fox & running dogs– in response to it45’s hail mary call for LawNOrder– have been tarring all civil protest with the brush of comparatively rare looting/ vandalism. They’re stoking fear, painting a dark picture of Dem-run urbs aflame with violence organized by communists & anarchists.
“I’m anti-fascist, aren’t you?” seems like a good retort to such lies.
Agreed! Proud anti-fascist here!
BTW, fascists need an “enemy within” for its members to hate, one accused of keeping them from achieving the return to a mythical, mystical greatness promised by their Glorious Leader. Jabba the Trump has constructed one out of a few white boys who like to dress up like Neo from the Matrix and break things, people who in represent the BLM movement only in the fevered imaginations of Trumpanzees like Tucker Carlson.
And I’m with Diane. I refuse to let those few cosplaying white boys co-opt the term “anti-fascist.”
Oh, and I failed to mention the right-wing paramilitary types dressed up as Antifa activists and setting fires and looting and inciting violence in order to discredit the BLM movement. I suspect that these vastly outnumber the cosplaying white boy Antitifakins.
Anti fascism can easily be a form of fascism. As defined by the intolerance of dissent. Cancel Culture is fascism as it is the attempt to squash the messenger to disqualify the message. I am an anti feminist. This means I understand feminism and am happy to share my understanding. Antifa do not seem to want to share viewpoints, and in fact, carry more characteristics of fascism. ________________________________
The exemplar of “cancel culture” is Donald Trump. He kills ideas and shames people with a tweet.
What do you object to about feminism?
Do you think women should not be allowed to vote?
Do you think women should not get equal pay for equal work? Do you think a female police officer should be paid less than a male officer of the same rank?
Do you think women should not be allowed to drive?
Do you practice Sharia law?
“The exemplar of “cancel culture” is Donald Trump. He kills ideas and shames people with a tweet.” Like I say, practiced mostly by callow youth just developing their own opinions, & overly influenced by peer groups. That shoe fits the Donald.
Antifascism is fascism. What do you say we carve this above the entrance to the MiniLuv building in the new Trump/Barr Reich?
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
Antifascism is fascim.
And BTW, I’ll be happy to forgo the “understanding” of feminism of anyone who describes himself as “antifeminist.”
Your definition of fascism is way too broad. “Intolerance of dissent” indeed sucks. It’s anti-social and anti-democratic. It precludes intelligent discussion and arrival at consensus. When wielded by govt’s law-enforcers, it characterizes every stripe of totalitarianism and dictatorship regardless of political ideology (fascism, communism, whatever).
When “intolerance of dissent” is practiced by leaders of cultural movements like feminism– or even just widely practiced among a radical subset of their followers– it’s not fascism. It’s a bad sign & a red flag, & should be countered vociferously in the public square.
“Cancel culture” by its very nature [shaming on social media] is practiced mainly by teens/ young adults & is a sign of immaturity and inexperience: not uncommon to find intolerance of dissent among youth just beginning to form their own opinions, & still overly influenced by peer groups. There was plenty of that going on even in my very-pre-social-media youth among anti-VN protestors.
No, Dean Hedges, you don’t need to explain anti-feminism. Kaley Cuoco, the bottle blonde, contemporary actress explained why she is not a feminist. “Feeling like a housewife, I love that. I like serving my husband. My Mom was like that so, it kind of rubbed off.” And, Dean, I’m sure your wife agrees with her.
The small problem with the “serving ” activities is they don’t have value in the marketplace and in some homes. Btw, Kaley, as an independently wealthy actress, was able to divorce her husband and did.
Demonization is the go-to tactic for movements that threaten white, male entitlement- feminism , antifa,…same fate.
Dean, no doubt you like the changes the former Fox exec. made when he took over the news department at CBS. Men like to watch female, on-air personalities wearing 4 in. heels and form -fitting dresses. Women dressing like that has nothing to do with men, right, Dean? (Kind of reminds me of the bound feet of noble women in China.)
Dean, do you think there’s a correlation between anti-feminism and conservative religion in America? Because if you don’t, you’ll find a lot of company at this blog.
Yes. Clear and simple.
It turns out being prematurely anti fascist was a real thing back in the 30’s too.
Trump doesn’t understand what fascism is. He doesn’t understand that much of what he does is out of the fascist playbook. He’s an an evil man, IMHO, as are most of his supporters in the government….They know what fascism and yet they still lick the boots of the orange one.
The Idiot very well understands what fascism is. It might be the only thing he does understand. It simplifies his Weltanschauung and fits hand-in-glove with his contempt for humanity. To grant him the credit of ignorance is an evil onto itself.
I emphatically agree, Greg. Trump is very, very stupid, and in the end, his ideology is the Cult of Trump, but this is true of ALL fascist Glorious Leaders. Trump’s picture belongs next to the word “fascism” in contemporary dictionaries. What fascist ideal does Trump NOT espouse? The return to a mystical, mythical greatness? Check. The absolute authority of the Glorious Leader? Check. The enemy within? Check. The superior genes of those like him? Check. Racist policy? Check. Extreme nationalism? Check. Use of paramilitary thugs to quell dissent? Check. Appropriation of national symbols to the cult of Glorious Leader? Check. Vilification of supposed enemies of the state? Check. Vilification and attacks upon opposition media? Check.
Ask me what I think of Trump.
Oh where do I begin?
He’s a freaking hero
to the skinhead Aryans.
It ought to be a clue that he
has such great popularity
with skinhead Aryans.
Imbleck
If Trump doesn’t understand, his advisors like Bill Barr and Steve Bannon do.
And Propaganda Minister Stephen “Goebbels” Miller
It’s amazing how liberal and conservative media contain nearly identical accounts of the police murder of Michael Reinoehl, the suspected but uncharged killer of Aaron Danielson, a right-wing terrorist at the Portland protests who was armed with bear mace and a handgun and who was among many such right-wing terrorists who were beating protesters and driving pick-up trucks through peaceful groups. All we “learn” from either liberal or conservative media sources is that Reinoehl was an armed member of Antifa. We have to go to “far left” media to get the full, nuanced picture of what really happened and the full context thereof: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/09/07/rein-s07.html
Are you accusing the Guardian of not giving a “full, nuanced picture” of what happened? That pro-Putin article you linked to was shockingly negative about Bernie Sanders and AOC:
“The mainstream “liberal” press and [Bernie Sanders and AOC] have been largely silent on the police murder of Reinoehl, as well as the murder of two protesters in Kenosha by Rittenhouse. As of this writing, there have been no calls for an investigation into the killing of Reinoehl by any [progressive] politician, major media outlet or the American Civil Liberties Union
“The killing of Reinoehl, robbed of his democratic right to the presumption of innocence and a jury trial, and the silence of [Bernie Sanders and AOC] are a serious warning to the working class. These are milestones in the criminalization of left-wing dissent and state support for violent fascist vigilantes.
[Bernie Sanders and AOC] will do nothing to defend the rights and lives of young people and workers who oppose the policies of the government and the daily violence and death meted out by the police agencies of the ruling elite. The basic social and democratic rights of the working class—the vast majority of the population—can be defended only through the independent mobilization of the working class in a conscious struggle to put an end to capitalism, the source of inequality, war and dictatorship, and establish socialism.”
Of course, the article didn’t mention Bernie Sanders and AOC by name, but they are clearly among those progressive and democrat politicians who this article claims are guilty of condoning the killing of Reinoehl because they haven’t spoken out. This article gives a pass to the Republican politicians who always condone anything that Putin’s puppet Trump does.
The fact that this article somehow forgot to mention that these tactics are similar to those used in Putin’s Russia and instead desperately reaches back more than 4 decades to Pinochet’s Chile tells you exactly where this propaganda is coming from. Sure it makes some valid points, but it uses those points to act as if Bernie Sanders and AOC and every other democrat are no different than Trump.
Which just happens to be exactly the Putin-supported propaganda that Trump needs for another 4 years.
No progressive is more concerned about bashing Bernie Sanders and AOC and the other democrats for not stopping Trump and Barr’s outrageous crimes than in stopping Trump and Barr from taking those actions by voting for Biden so Trump and Barr’s power ends.
Putin poisons his opponents. When an article tries to make a comparison to a scary regime that the US may turn into, then the obvious one is Putin’s Russia. And yet anyone reading this article would think that Putin’s Russia is wonderful and it is just Bernie Sanders and AOC and the rest of the evil progressives and democrats who should be kept from power, and not the Republicans!
Maybe you no longer even trust the Guardian but the fact you trust an article that implied Bernie Sanders and AOC were just as guilty as Barr and Trump is very revealing.
I’m for inclusion not exclusion. Riding the label fence keeps you jumping back and forth with de-fence. Does naming it give it power so its pursued to disarm? Anti-facism.
Diane, I hope they invite you to Biden’s Debate Camp!
This blog prompts significant advice for Vice President Biden:
Every time the president uses one of his slurs or terms to lather up crowds, Biden must ask him to define it and provide evidence.
“Donald, You called me a liberal. Define liberal”
“Donald, You claim I want violence in the streets. Democrats want violence in the streets. Give me an example.”
You say I am going after your guns. When did I say that? I don’t want your hunting rifle, just your AK-47.
You claim I want to raise taxes for the rich. You’re spending $50 MILLION of their campaign contributions to defend you legal issues.
You define every Black Lives Matter protest as violent. Do you know what percentage of those were violent? 3%
You told people to vote twice… (walks across stage envelope in hand) “You’ve been served.”
You told people to drink poison. (walks across stage duffel bag in hand (a la Mr. Smith)) “Here are 10,000 letters from doctors and mandatory reporters citing your negligence and abuse”
“Define liberal.”
That was one of my go-to techniques when I was a teacher. “That’s so and so,” said students. “Define so and so!” was my response. Did the same with a friend on Twitter the short time I was on it. “That’s socialism,” said the libertarian who claimed Nazis were socialists–because it’s in their name, you know, like North Korea is a People’s Republic. “Define socialism!” I answered. Was unfriended immediately.
If candidates want sling labels at each other, liberal is not the label I hear in the pro-Trump ads. These ads call Biden a radical left wing socialist. Then, they flash a picture of Biden with the “squad.” I doubt Biden has met most of them. This is the ad that plays in conservative Florida.
Here is what ADL.org says, ““antifa” (short for “antifascist”), a loose collection of groups, networks and individuals who believe in active, aggressive opposition to far right-wing movements. Their ideology is rooted in the assumption that the Nazi party would never have been able to come to power in Germany if people had more aggressively fought them in the streets in the 1920s and 30s. Most antifa come from the anarchist movement or from the far left, though since the 2016 presidential election, some people with more mainstream political backgrounds have also joined their ranks.”
There’s more: https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/who-are-antifa
Who is ADL? “ADL is a 105-year-old global anti-hate organization.”
“ADL is a leading anti-hate organization. Founded in 1913 in response to an escalating climate of anti-Semitism and bigotry, its timeless mission is to protect the Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment for all. Today, ADL continues to fight all forms of hate with the same vigor and passion. ADL is a global leader in exposing extremism and delivering anti-bias education, and is a leading organization in training law enforcement. ADL is the first call when acts of anti-Semitism occur. ADL’s ultimate goal is a world in which no group or individual suffers from bias, discrimination or hate. …
https://www.adl.org/who-we-are
Unlike the (White) Klu Klux Klan who tortured and murdered Blacks, Italians (especially Sicilians), Catholics and Jews, the Black Panthers weren’t advocating murdering White Civilians. Sure, the Black Panthers were armed. The cops and FBI were against them. In Chicago, Black Panthers Mark Clark and Fred Hampton were murdered by Chicago cops, under Cook County State’s Attorney Ed Hanarahan’s orders in 1969. Clark, who fired 1 bullet, and Hampton were never allowed to surrender, because nearly 100 bullets were fired into that Monroe St. Apartment (Chicago, Garfield Park area).
😐
Diane. You have offered a statement for this era. It should be a self-evident truth that most people in our country abhor fascists and have learned about fascism, especially as practiced in Nazi Germany. Not so.
Yes, I too am anti-fascist.
I am older than you are. I am not a Jew. I did not lose any members of my family to the Holocaust. But I still have in my mind’s eye those indelible Life Magazine photos of the death camps. I see that Google images has multiple uncensored and horrific photos from the era. The multi-sensory reality for all victims and survivors is reduced to black white and shades of gray.
I also grew up in the south when lynching was still happening and KKK was active and “proud.” Years later, I taught in Indiana where the KKK was active and recruiting.
I see now, and with still clear vision and fairly intact mind, how thoroughly Trump and Barr along with their supporters and apologists are eager to have a dictator-in-chief and all of the real and symbolic expressions of power that dictators love. Trump is a dangerous man, and a vulgar one. He is ignorant of the Constitution, boasts about being “for God,” and uses the Bible as no more than a prop for a publicity photo.
He is laying plans to stay in office by any means possible. He is setting the stage by declaring that the forthcoming election has been rigged, will be invalid, and taking steps to make as people NOT vote as he can. He is a saboteur who cares only about his own power to stay in power.
Thank you, Laura.
Since Trump regularly launches fascist moves against peaceful protestors, it should be no surprise that he abhors those who are anti-fascist. If we are not on our guard, it can happen here.
I was born in 1942, a baby when America was fighting fascist governments of Germany and Italy.
I have grown up with the idea that democratic governments are better than the fascist governments America fought in WW II.
These experiences made me “anti-fascist”. And, I oppose groups or individuals that promote fascism.
Dig deeper. “A small amount” isn’t enough.
On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 10:01 AM Diane Ravitch’s blog wrote:
> dianeravitch posted: “Trump and Barr have warned about the dangers of a > group called “Antifa.” I had never heard of them and don’t know anyone who > belongs to this group. I did a small amount of digging and learned that > Antifa means “anti-fascist.” That confused me. How can” >
Laurenson,
I dig deeper and found that the most powerful fascists of my lifetime were Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini. Today I would add to that list Vladimir Putin.
Yes, I am definitely anti-fascist.
You are fighting the last war.
LBJ broke the Klan’s ass. More than 50% of what is left are paid FBI informants and rightly so.
Is there a place to hate Nazi’s and … Mao’ s New Red Guards?
Is Japanese Prime Minister Hidecki Tojo a fascist? He conquered many Asian and Pacific countries and islands. He treated women horribly too. ☹️
He bombed Pearl Island, which I feel really involved the US in World War II. ☹️
The Japanese during the time of World War 2 had a fascist, racist regime.
He was. But he’s just a tip of the iceberg. The entire ministry had been highjacked by right-wing military sect. After WWII, Harry Truman and Gen. Douglas McArthur decided to let many of those ex military cult members alive in order to save Hirohito’s face by giving Tojo a death sentence.
One of those who were convicted but returned to national political arena was a grandfather of Shinzo Abe, ex-prime Minister who resigned last week due to illness.
Anti-Fascist. Anti-Racist. Forever.
The interesting thing about Trump is that he has constantly called out Antifa for activities that are essentially what he does on a daily Twitter basis. What violence associated with this small group does not account for any threat, however reprehensible you think their tactics to be. What Trump will not do is call out the violent right wing. Indeed he gives the Presidential Medal of Freedom to a man, Limbaugh, whose vituperations inspired a man to shoot up a church where a friend of mine was doing work with children. Anyone on the left who spouted of the crap you hear on right wing talk radio would have been shot by now. And Trump will not call them out. He rewards them, because it builds hatred within his base.
I do know members of that particular group and they are for the most part non-violent (spray painting shouldn’t count) and not organized at all! It is more of a free range collective online. But YES WE SHOULD ALL BE ANTI FASCISTS. And we need to continue to remind them that Antifa stands for ANTI FASCISTS…not anything else. They would love to make them the new boogie man but they are not…now the Boogaloo Bois, they are scary and are a real threat, armed to the gills.
Thank you for pointing out what should be obvious. And it really is this simple. I am 100% anti-fascist. ‘Antifa’ as a term used by Donald Trump to refer to a collection of various dissenters, some violent, some not. It’s his ever-morphing, all-purpose enemy.
“Fascists want to make America a white a Christian nation”. Incorrect. If you actually took the time to read the Doctrine of Fascism you would see that it rejects all forms of Christian and other religions as they compete with the State. Fascism is based on the principal that the State comes before all else and only the State should have a religious following.
“Hitler and Mussolini were fascists”. Also incorrect. Hitler was not a Fascist. Hitler wanted world domination, Fascism is all about nationalism and not intervening in the affairs of the world. This is the one principal of Fascism Trump has been in line with as he withdraws our troops from the endless wars and seeks to strengthen “America first”. The only reason Musollini paired with Hitler was for his desire to preserve Italy as an independent State. Fascism fights within its own borders to strengthen the State from within, Hitler’s Nazism fought for control of more geographic territory to strengthen his nation. Both are terrible, but please try to be accurate when using these terms.