K.A. Dilday is a parent and journalist who lives in Central Harlem.
She wrote critically about efforts to integrate the selective high schools. Putting your child into an academic pressure-cooker is the wrong definition of success, she believes. She wants something better for her child.
She writes:
This weekend, nearly 30,000 eighth graders in New York City will take the Specialized High School Admission test (SHSAT). About 5,000 of them will score high enough to get an offer to attend one of eight of the city’s prestigious specialized high schools.
I can’t get behind this: It affirms a supremacist mentality. I thought we were done propping that up.
As a New York City parent and a journalist, I have been closely following this debate, and many studies about the systemic exclusion from success, and a good life, for blacks and Latinos in the United States. The people who fight to change the admissions believe they are fighting for the cause of black and brown children, including my 9-year old daughter. In reading these debates and studies, I’ve learned a few things. First and foremost: I am a failure, and I am setting my daughter up to be a failure.
Just by living in this neighborhood—one which has about the same ratio of blacks and whites as the one I grew up in—I’ve knocked two points off my daughter’s IQ score, as a cute little graphic in this Vox article shows.
Oh, wait: There was a murder within seven blocks of our home. This same article relies on NYU research to tell me that my choice of apartment knocked seven more points off my daughter’s IQ. (Although I do wonder if there is a neighborhood anywhere in Manhattan where there hasn’t been a murder within seven blocks during a five-year period.)
In other words, I started off strong as a child but I am a failure who is failing my daughter, and here’s the kicker: Despite the studies that tell me that I live here because racism did the dirty to me, I claim agency in this. I chose it all. I chose not to have my daughter tested to enter kindergarten in the gifted and talented programs that feed to specialized high schools. Nor do I want her to attend a specialized high school. I am choosing for my daughter to be “left behind.”
With her father, I made these choices in location and education because we find beauty and value in our neighborhood, and reward in schools where students leave with a broad idea of what achievement looks like, an expansive idea of the path to happiness, success, societal contribution, and fulfillment—and the capacity to choose their path.
The Times offers a few clues to the criteria they use. “These schools have a vital mission, to challenge the city’s sharpest young minds.” Referring to the criticism of the mayor’s plan from alumni, the op-ed concludes that “the very intensity of the response underscores how formative an experience it is to attend a specialized high school.”
The first criterion I understand but disagree with; the second makes little sense. Passion about changing admissions indicates that it is such a formative experience? I think it’s more that admission confers bragging rights, something very important in highly competitive New York City.
“They all but shut out black and Latino students,” the article states, “leaving untold numbers of New York’s brightest children behind.” The Times seems to know who is “bright” and who isn’t: Like the SHSAT, they feel confident this can be assessed. And where is this “behind?” Those “shut out” students are left to attend many other good schools in New York. “Behind” implies that the specialized high schools are in front, and that schools that don’t earn that honorific by choosing a student body based on that narrow form of achievement are lesser.
Let’s dial back a bit. As I said, I grew up in a middle-class neighborhood, but I didn’t mention that it was in Jackson, Mississippi, 1972 to ’87. I fully understand that my parents—first-generation college attendees—gave me choice. My background and private-college degree helped open up a world of opportunity. I was able to choose a rewarding but not well-remunerated (compared to working graduates of a university like mine) job. I was able to choose where I lived, and I knew I didn’t want to live in a keeping-up-with-the-Joneses neighborhood, whether it was mostly white or brown, or Asian. I chose my neighborhood because of its mixed-up income and mixed-up races.
So why do so many people who lament what is called white supremacy—and who hate the fact that it is guarded so jealously—reaffirm its values? Our lives are diminished because we are “shut out” of specialized high schools; our lives are limited because we live in majority black and brown neighborhoods. Our proximity to too many poor people, after having started life in middle-class communities, is evidence of slippage.
Until I read all of these school debates and articles about the drawbacks of my area, I was happy and pleased with the life I was providing my child. I thought that, through her neighborhood and education, she’d have what I had wanted from mine: familiarity, ease, and appreciation of an incredibly wide range of people; capacity for hard work; intellectual and moral rigor; and a desire to do something good in the world. But to academics and reporters, black, white, Latino, etc., my child and I are tragic: We are black American retrogression.
Jason Warwin, a New Yorker who came through the New York City public school system, graduated from Central Park East Secondary School, a small progressive 7-12 school in East Harlem. I met him while fighting to preserve my daughter’s progressive public elementary school when the New York City Department of Education was insisting that a more rigid form of education was the only one suitable for brown children in Harlem.
Warwin recalls being set extra work at Central Park East Secondary and being annoyed sometimes when he was asked to work with other students to teach them something he had already mastered. But it didn’t take him long to appreciate what the teachers and administration wanted him to realize.
Warwin went on to an Ivy League university, Brown, where he met a fellow student from New York City, Khary Lazarre-White. As undergrads, they created an organization they still direct called Brotherhood Sister Sol, a mentoring, academic, and social support organization primarily for black and brown students in Harlem. When we spoke this fall, Warwin was only slightly aware of the current demographics of the specialized schools. I can only guess that this is because it is marginal to his students’ experience, and to what he hopes for them.
“Supporting people who are trying to live moral lives is not something you hear as a focus of these [specialized] schools,” Warwin told me. “Of course, we [at Brotherhood Sister Sol] are very happy when a young person gets into an Ivy League college. But our primary objective isn’t to get them into elite schools. We want them to develop in a positive direction in how they interact with the people in their lives.” He said he’d rather see the city develop more consortium high schools, similar to the one he attended, and particularly in low-income neighborhoods like West Harlem where Brotherhood Sister Sol is located.
And I myself, can get only so enthused about discussing initiatives to diversify these schools: To me, the families who want the brand enough to submit their children to the hours and hours of homework and intensely competitive environmentof these specialized school hothouses and send their children for hundreds of hours of test prep(and many of the families who do are of modest income) are welcome to it. I lump these schools in the same category as I put Gucci handbags and Patek Philippe watches: expensive trophies for the status conscious. I can get something that does as good a job or better, for a fraction of the monetary or human cost.
The parent of one of my daughter’s school friends disagrees with me. He’s a black man who attended one of the big three and went on to earn Ivy undergraduate and graduate degrees. He says that this fight is important because any chance people get, they will discredit the intellect and achievement of people of color: More of us need degrees from these institutions because they serve as irrefutable counter to such claims. But I wonder: If the admissions processes are changed, will it continue to have that validating power?
Ani also went to Brown. She was ashamed that she wasn’t accepted to Harvard; her father, who immigrated to New York from China, always wanted her to go to whatever he thought people perceived as “the best.” She became an M.D.; only now, after her father and his parents have died, has she begun to retrain as a teacher. “I had told my dad that I wanted to teach young children, and he said, ‘Well, if you want to work with young children you should become a pediatrician.’” She also asked that her full name not be used, because “my father’s family still don’t know that I’m leaving medicine.”
Ani also chose not to have her children tested to enter the city’s gifted and talented (called G&T) program in kindergarten. Instead, she enrolled them in a progressive, non-test-focused public elementary school. “Kids bring all different kinds of things to school and that those are equally valuable,” she says. “In G&T, they are only kids who do well on a test.”
Schools in high-poverty neighborhoods would be remade and neighborhoods recast. Perhaps this long-standing idea that the specialized schools serve the city’s best and brightest would retreat. (It’s happened before: As The Atlantic recently pointed out, the number of white students dropped at the specialized schools as good alternatives emerged around the city.) Most important, these children would not only be surrounded by highly academic peers, but others from whom they might learn other, perhaps equally important, lessons.
My wan support for the quest to diversify New York City’s specialized high schools is not because I don’t believe that there is racism and inequity in the design and implementation of the New York City Public school system. I do. But the battles that are fought and the studies that are published in our names constantly affirm institutions and ideals that affirm hierarchy, convey a narrow definition of worth and success, and, by exclusion, diminish other values.
There is more honor and civic value in fighting to create graduating classes of youth whose focus is co-existing, supporting and contributing, than in facilitating the entry of more black and brown youth to a school of competitors driven to win and dominate.
It’s time for everyone—but particularly people of color and poor people—to stop directing this fight against racism and inequity toward equal access to what conventional wisdom says is most worth having.
Wow!
Insightful on so many levels..
Hey, that’s what I was going to say!
….. and all of the competition is based on acceptance of overall immutable scarcity and inequity and its inevitable individual survival of the fittest struggle.
The specialized high-school admissions test, or SHAT
Which is a cousin to the Scholastic Common Core Admissions Test, or SCCAT
Specialed Highschool Admissions Test
Bears, they do it in the wood
Students do it in the hood
Yearly SHAT, it’s understood,
For making folks believe they’re good
The author makes so many valid points. As a current NYC DOE administrator, with experience in both G&T schools and community schools; I can say that the students who are able to have varied opportunities for interacting with a diversity of learners and families (regardless of economics or ethnic background) do tend to be more interesting, flexible, adaptive, empathetic and happier students who ask questions and seem to be more open to learning and working with others. My brother got into Stuyvesant but I did not and ended up going to a communication arts based school closer to my neighborhood in Brooklyn. But I never stopped hearing my parents talked about how important it was that my brother’s future was secure because Stuyvesant was the “best high school” in NYC even though I graduated as Salutatorian of my school and my brother did not. The resolution of the “specialized” high schools is still fraught with many land mines and will continue to vex well meaning folks and parents who always want what’s best for their children.
Going to Stuyvesant is no guarantee for future success. The most elite colleges — if one cares about that sort of thing — cap the number of students they accept from one school, and there are a LOT of students coming out of Stuyvesant and Bronx Science with absolutely stellar applications. A better guarantee is to somehow find the $200,000 to put your kid through one of the elite private schools, which never fail to fill the pipelines to every top college.
Research showed that the Ivy League grads who made big bucks in subsequent careers were limited to those who already had or, made connections with the moneyed while in school.
Best way to make money is to have money.
The best way to take money is to have money, Wall Street as example.
What an extraordinarily brilliant, powerful, thoughtful post!!!!
Bowing low here, Ms. Dilday!!!
Education has become a ROI – another competition that can be purchased with grit and determination, money or by “superior” intelligence. I think every child is a genius in a way and every human has a “super power” that is unique, but our whole system is made to sort people into boxes. Squares boxes will never fit into circles. Education should be for the sake of learning and nothing more (preK-12).
yes, and every year more so: sorting kids into boxes, into categories, into data which can then be sold
https://bobshepherdonline.wordpress.com/2014/04/09/who-said-life-aint-no-crystal-stair/
Specialized is code for superior.
Specialized high schools teach people to believe they are superior to everyone else and “train” them for colleges like Harvard where the belief is developed into a full-blown superiority complex.
Really? Do you know anything about “specialized high schools”?
AOC’s dad went to a NYC specialized high school and AOC has noted how much he appreciated that opportunity. AOC did not say that her dad was given a superiority complex because he attended one.
“‘My father loved Brooklyn Tech,” U.S. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said yesterday at an education town hall in Jackson Heights, Queens. Her father, Sergio Ocasio ’77 (Architecture), left his South Bronx apartment daily at 5:00 AM, she said, for the long subway ride to Tech and the opportunity for “a dignified life.”
AOC has rightly criticized the admissions process at specialized high schools, because admissions via a single-test has resulted in a skewed system. AOC knows that needs to change, but that is not the same as saying that there should be no specialized high schools at all.
I have seen other cities that have no equivalent of specialized high schools. Instead they have large comprehensive high schools with “honors programs” which have exactly the same problem.
The problem with specialized high schools is a flawed admissions process, but I haven’t heard AOC say that it would be better if students were just randomly assigned to specialized high schools.
The same question is whether specialized programs in the arts should also be abolished. Some people believe it is a fantastic opportunity that talented students whose parents may not have a lot of money to privately train them can study dance or theater or vocal at a very high level that would not be the same if all music classes had to be open to all students regardless of their interest or talent in the subject.
There are two different questions here: The first is whether offering advanced classes for students who want advanced classes should be allowed at all, since the only way to achieve equity is to randomly assign all students to classes. The second is how accessible those advanced classes are for every student who wants it. And that includes the fact that the admissions process to specialized high schools is flawed.
I think AOC believes that every student who wants a more challenging curriculum should have that, but that is very different than abolishing schools that only offer more accelerated classes.
The real problem is that the definition of a “good” high school is wrong — which is what the piece is about. There are people who think a high school is only “good” if almost every student in it is at least above average. But a high school that offers accelerated classes that only 10% of the students want to take can still be very good for those students. The real question is how to address the students who don’t want to learn and no one has really come up with that solution – probably because it is likely that each student has their own unique reason for not being able or willing to learn.
I taught at one.
But only for a year.
On the whole, i found the so called “gifted and talented” ( who made up a large fraction at the school) to be obnoxious know it all brats.
Any other questions?
And not incidentally, I also went to college at an Ivy League university with many of the same type, so yes, I do know something about the type.
Perhaps you should ask yourself the same question.
Wow, I didn’t know that because I thought you were on the west coast.
I assume that you didn’t teach your students they were superior. Was it the other teachers in your specialized high school who were teaching their students that they were superior? That is certainly a valid criticism of the teachers and it is appalling that teachers would be that ignorant. I hope that was a long time ago, because I would doubt that most teachers do that now. In fact, Gary Rubinstein, who posts here, teaches at a specialized high school and I would find it surprising if he taught the students that “they are superior to everyone else and “train” them for colleges like Harvard where the belief is developed into a full-blown superiority complex.”
I’m not saying that there aren’t a few students and teachers like that at specialized high schools because those teachers are also at regular public schools that offer high level classes to their most advanced students.
But most students at specialized high schools have friends at non-specialized high schools, too, and they end up at exactly the same colleges! Which include a range of colleges from Harvard to SUNYs to CUNYs. Very few students have “superiority complexes”, but many of them would blow you away not because they are brilliant scholars, but because they juggle their academics with taking care of their elderly relatives or younger siblings or working many hours at a job. Those students very much deserve their seats at specialized high schools, but so do many other students who are African American and Latinx but do not score as high on a single day’s exam.
The specialized high school I taught at was in Tucson (which is neither on the east nor on the west coast, by the way. Ha ha ha!)
But you SHOULD already know that because I stated as much (including the name* of the high school) in a comment on specialized high schools a while ago to which you responded!
Hint: it has University in the name, so you *might be able to figure it out.
The “specialized high schools” discussed in this post have nothing to do with where you taught in Arizona.
I am sorry but I don’t remember what post you are talking about with “university” – no doubt I should.
On the other hand, this post is about NYC specialized high schools, so since you made what seemed to be a sweeping insult about the students at specialized high schools, I assumed you meant NYC, and given the population of students at NYC specialized high schools, that was a remark I thought should be corrected. Rest assured I am no expert, but I am far more familiar with NYC specialized high schools than you are. And your presumptions about students coming out with superiority complexes is quite off base. Not saying that there aren’t some (as there also are in high school honors programs everywhere), but that isn’t what they are taught there. Maybe some parents are that way, too, but not sure why you would believe that is widespread.
I really wish you knew how many fantastic students in NYC do NOT go to specialized high schools but just attend good public high schools and go to the same good colleges. And some of their parents might be overly proud of them, but that isn’t because they were taught to be superior by their high school.
I’m sorry, but it is revealing that you assume that it is only at Ivy colleges that you are exposed to “that type”. The students who end up at Ivies from NYC specialized high schools are usually amazingly accomplished because they stand out from a crowd of high performing students — and by “crowd” I mean 800 – 1500 students in their graduating class! Maybe you are confusing them with the affluent students from NYC private schools.
Oh give me a break, SDP. Broad-brush generalizing. I went to an Ivy League as well. Can’t say I met everybody, hey there were 14k of them. Among the cohort I knew, sure, there were some know-it-all brats. Most of the ones I met were in one particular fraternity consisting almost entirely of the fabulously wealthy. An obnoxious culture. But just one of many frats, which were mostly populated by regular Joes ranging from the highly-studious to the soon-to-be-flunked-out partiers, none of which were “know-it-all brats.” Throughout my classes I remember 1/ per small-class & a handful per lecture class. [The only one I respected & became friendly w/ had a for-real photographic memory.]
Can’t comment on your claimed preponderance of KIAB at g&t highschs, but there I am less skeptical. Seems it would be a no-brainer in a society that salaams to all entrants as “winners”: 14-17y.o.’s are impressionable enough for that to go right to their heads.
I like this piece. Meritocratic values have a hegemony these days. They seem so part of the firmament that few people realize that they’re NOT part of the firmament, but rather just one of many lenses we might choose through which to view the world. And meritocratic values have their problems. They lead us to denigrate some workers as “low skilled”, a term that implies these workers deserve their impoverished condition because they were just too lazy to do the hard work of acquiring more skills. But all you need to do is change your lens and these despised workers become “essential” workers who deserve bonus pay. Same with “low achieving students”. Mike Levin’s KIPP is the ultimate avatar of meritocratic values in the education world. Every student at KIPP is asked to aim for an Ivy. “Low achieving students” have no value in this world view. But those students DO have value; it’s just that the meritocratic lens makes us blind to it.
Well said, Ponderosa. We give a lot of lip service in this country to respecting labor, but the fact is that we do the exact opposite. We treat people who end up in blue-collar or paraprofessional jobs like dirt and often don’t even pay them a living wage.
Reposted on my social media
There is a lot of nuanced messaging in this post. As far as education goes, students can get an excellent education in a selective high school or a comprehensive public school. I taught in a diverse, integrated school district for many years. Students in this district were offered a buffet of options for their programming in many disciplines. While I taught ELLs, there were many social and cultural activities for different types of students to interact in sports, the orchestra and the arts. I always enjoyed perusing the school yearbooks. The various clubs, debate teams, chorus and social service organizations were all integrated both ethnically and socioeconomically. Students in the school district produced a range of achievement, high, middle and some low as well. What the district fostered was mutual understanding and respect for all people, and that message is as important as academics.
BTW, my nephew is super bright. He was tapped for a John’s Hopkins gifted and talented program in middle school. He declined to go. He got into MIT which would have cost his parents between $50 and $70 thousand each year. He went to Georgia Tech instead, which gave him a large grant to defray tuition costs. He loved the school and is a computer engineer today. He is happy today, and he has no college debt.
Your nephew was wise to avoid MIT and Johns Hopkins- their reputations as institutions under billionaire control makes them undesirable.
Under pedophilanthropist control in the case of MIT.
Pedophilanthropist- clever.
End all selective enrollment in all public schools. How can we accuse charters of creaming when public schools do the same thing? By definition, “public” should mean that all comers are welcome. Stop making a select handful of schools “good” schools and provide wide options for all kids at all schools.
AMEN! But just to go a bit further…..the testing MUST go. Even if there aren’t “selective” schools within a district, wealthy parents purchasing in expensive real estate zip codes( away from “those people”) are creating “selective” schools via large PTA contributions. The large contributions are spent on supplies, extra $ for after school mentoring and fun activities for children. These people purchase based on test scores supplied by Zillow, Realtor.com etc. Rich public school parents are gaming the system for a pseudo private education for their children without having to pay the real cost of private school.
It isn’t “gaming” to decide to live in a neighborhood with a zoned public school that you’d be fine with your child attending.
Honestly, this assumes that having a lot of affluent parents is the definition of “good” and having too many poor parents = “bad”.
In Chicago, they got rid of neighborhood schools that were loved by parents because they were “bad”, which seemed to be because it served the very disadvantaged students who lived near it. Those parents didn’t think their school was “bad”. They felt connected to their school because it was part of their community. And something was lost by closing it. What if resources were poured into it? Would the measure of the school still be the percentage of higher performing students in it? Can’t a school be “good” because it serves students living in poverty and offers a variety of classes for those who have different academic goals, even if only a small number of those students have high academic goals when compared to a school that has affluent parents?
That’s a bit over the top. I’m in a wealthy town w/ excellent schools, but it’s hardly due to exorbitant parental donations to PTA. These folks are already paying property taxes through the nose, & that’s what makes the schsys excellent. PTA donations realistically speaking will get you a refurbished playground, & maybe support midsch extramural sports, or a 2nd jazzband for the hisch. In other words, some extras here & there. What really makes it tick:
…Regardless of how much state takes away from us in redistribution to poor schools, we just keep upping the ante, taxing ourselves more municipally to maintain the budget. An aspect many don’t recognize about this: it costs less to educate privileged students. Our per-pupil spending is less than the state average.
“How can we accuse charters of creaming when public schools do the same thing?”
We “accuse” charters of LYING about creaming. Don’t you send your kid to a private school? Does your private school compare their students’ achievement to the local public school and claim superiority because they are “teaching the exact same students” but doing it in a far superior manner? How can you possibly use the false rhetoric of anti-public school pro-charter shills to attack public schools? Is it okay to lie and say you aren’t creaming when you are, because public schools have honors programs and specialized test-in schools?
This sentence demonstrates ignorance about NYC public schools:
“Stop making a select handful of schools “good” schools”
No one but a few snobs believes that only a “select handful” of schools are “good” in NYC. That is the point of the article. There are LOTS of good public schools — and many of them have a diverse population that includes very academic students and those who have little interest in academics. That certainly is not the case for most private schools.
The NYC public school system – especially in high school – offers “good” schools to almost every student who wants it. The real problem is not that, but how to address the education of students who are – because of the effects of poverty, etc. – are going to struggle academically regardless of what school they are in. And when you have more than 70% of students living in poverty, the fact that only a very small percentage of those students are in so-called “failing” schools should be viewed as a pretty good achievement. There is still a ways to go, however.
But it is insulting to so many students that outsiders who don’t know anything about their school system believe that “only a select handful” of public schools are good, and their public school is not among that handful of “good” schools. Which is usually because those outsiders assume that every school that doesn’t have high percentages of white and/or Asian students must be “not good”.
“Does your private school compare their students’ achievement to the local public school and claim superiority because they are “teaching the exact same students” but doing it in a far superior manner?”
Um, no. If you read anything I’ve written (which apparently you don’t), you would know that my kids go to a progressive school specifically so that they don’t get compared to other students. Period.
Anyway, I don’t know what you’re yelling at me for (other than that’s what you reflexively seem to do). I’m basically saying the same thing you are.
I don’t are whether your private school is progressive or not progressive — does it accept any student that walks through the door regardless of parents’ ability to pay? Does it accept kids on a first come, first serve basis or via a lottery, including students with severe learning disabilities and severe behavior problems, based only on whether their parents have the tuition money? If not, it creams students.
The point is that if a private school compared themselves to a public school that taught all students, it would be a false comparison. Private schools would look really foolish if they kept bragging about being better than public schools that don’t cream students, but charters do that all the time by denying the reality that they cream students! And the reason it is OK to criticize that is because charters are dishonest about that, and that dishonesty leads to resources taken from public schools to reward charters for being “superior”.
Specialized high schools are honest – they cream students. That’s why they don’t get lots of government and right wing grant money to reward them for getting good results the way charters do when they suck funding from public schools. If anything, specialized high schools often get less funding per student precisely because they aren’t lying and claiming to have achieved miracles with the same students that are in regular public schools.
Are you still unwilling to acknowledge the difference? Does that mean that any public high school that has an honors class is forbidden from criticizing a charter that is making dishonest comparisons that hurt the public school system? Because your point seems to be that the mere existence of advanced classes that “select” students in public schools means that everyone is forbidden from criticizing charters that lie about selecting students and making false claims about their success.
If you had read my entire comment, you would understand that I was making the point that you seem to believe that charters are being criticized for “creaming” when what they are criticized for is claiming that they are not creaming and just are doing a superior job to public schools that also don’t cream. But every time the big lie of charters is pointed out, their defenders suddenly change the subject to “but selective public schools exist…”
carolinesf has posted about this many times. First charter schools brag about their results and compare them to failing public schools, and when it is pointed out to them that they are creaming students and not teaching the same students, they change the subject and say “but this public school over here creams students so our creaming is okay”.
I was just surprised to hear you repeating that false charter narrative which excuses the lies of the charter industry. I have certainly heard exactly the same argument from the pro-charter folks who post here, because their circular argument means they never have to address the lies of charters.
So I repeat – charters are criticized for lying, because that lie hurts public schools. There is legitimate criticism to be made of specialized high schools, but their existence does not absolve charters from the criticism that they are dishonest and deny creaming when that is exactly what they are doing.
Every school screens students in some way. By catchment, by ability to pay, by academics or audition or interview. “Schools should be open to all” is a slogan with no meaning.
Re private schools—you know what correlates with money more than standardized scores? Money.
FLERP!,
I don’t want to make a wrong assumption here, because I don’t know who you were replying to when you posted “Every school screens students in some way.” Was that a response to my comment pointing out the reprehensible dishonesty of charter CEOs who directly compare their charters to public school systems that educate ALL students?
“Every school screens students in some way” is certainly a slogan with no meaning. Clearly, charters and non-boarding private schools don’t have students who live 100 miles away. Neither do public schools. But not sure why you believe that is germane to the discussion at hand, which is about the difference between public school systems that are legally obligated to provide for the education of every child that resides within the boundaries of their public school system, and charters/private schools that only have to teach whoever they want and once a child leaves their school, all obligation to them ends.
“Every school screens students” is as meaningless as saying “every child gets sick”. Caring for every sick child, regardless of the severity of their illness, is very different than caring only for children whose illnesses respond to a course of amoxicillin. That’s why it would be outrageous for a pediatrician’s practice that only treats sick kids whose strep throat responds to amoxicillin to claim superiority over practices that care for sick kids with all illnesses, including the most severe, by claiming that since “every child gets sick” and the children in their practice always get well quickly, that makes the comparison valid.
It would be as outrageous as a charter or private school to defend comparing their school to a huge public school system because “they all screen students”. It would be a self-serving misuse of the meaning of the word “screen” to try to justify a dishonest comparison.
Two slogans with no meaning. “Every school screens students in some way” and “Schools should be open to all”.
Was trying to agree with you.
FLERP!,
Thanks very much for clarifying. I’m very sorry for jumping to conclusions.
on the nose: we keep falling into the “categorize kids and their schools as good or bad” trap
Exactly, Dienne! Though having high schools that focus in particular areas doesn’t seem to me a bad idea–design, computer technology, arts and music, etc.
Ironically, in NYC, there is one “specialized high school” that focuses on arts and music and the population of that high school is disproportionately white and affluent! Whereas the specialized high schools that admit via the SHSAT only still have high rates of economically disadvantaged students, especially first generation students (and students who themselves came to this country as children).
I was reading that NYC has 135 schools that offer vocational education programs. It sounds wonderful that there is such diversity in the high-school offerings. Does the city provide transportation to a school of the student’s choosing? Can a student decide that he wants to go to a particular school that offers a program that he or she is interested in, even if it is in a different borough?
Bob, NYC 8th graders — and there are 80,000 of them!! — spend a significant portion of September – December dealing with the high school admissions process. At the end of 7th grade, they receive an enormous book (I think it may only be digital now) that looks something like the huge guide to colleges that high school seniors used. I started to write an even longer post about the complex process that involves visiting schools of interest and learning their individual admissions criteria and then ranking the choices in the order that students want which results in a single “match” high school. Suffice it to say that most public high school seniors aren’t daunted by the college admissions process having been through it all as 8th graders! And like applying to college, there are arguably almost too many choices, from very small high schools of fewer than 100 students per grade to huge schools with well over 1,000 students per grade. If anything, there seem to be too few high schools that are mid-sized (around 300 grade). And so many high schools with “specialties” from vocational to arts to technology. (FYI, the “NYC specialized high schools” that this post is about are not part of this process, since admission is only based on the SHSAT test score.)
Students frequently travel from other boroughs for high school — each student receives a free transit pass with 3 rides/day (allowing them to go from school to somewhere else and then home). Students travel by subway, by public bus, even by the Staten Island Ferry.
Forgot to add that almost 75% of the students get matched with one of their top 3 choices for high school, and about 45% get their very top choice. That isn’t bad, but it can definitely be hard on 8th graders. It’s certainly the trade off of having so many choices instead of just moving on to your local high school whether you like it or not. But anecdotally, I know great kids who did not get any of their choices and ended up in schools that had available seats because they weren’t popular choices, and those students ended up liking their high schools a lot and doing well.
Smart parent.
These “so-called elite” schools are not elite at all … well, I take that back … maybe just elite re: the clothing these students wear to school.
So well said and expressed.
OUSD has struggled with this problem for as long as I can remember, but some school board members have created the narrative that there are only a half-dozen “good” schools in the entire city (out of 86 district schools). These schools invariably are considered “good” because they have wealthy, involved parents. The board has supported legislation like the Opportunity Ticket, which allows displaced children (mostly of color from school closures) a higher spot in the school enrollment priority list. Sounds like a good idea, but what it does is allow the board and the district to abdicate their responsibility for supporting all schools and steer children to charters instead. It continues to perpetuate the myth that the only good schools are the ones with high test scores. The competitive privatized system inevitably discourages investment in community-based schooling, and instead creates school selection as a prize to be won.
Thank you for your insights into how “selection of students” plays out in a large diverse system that is also under charter school attack. In suburban New York City, there are some gentrifying parts of New Jersey where charter schools sit on mountains of money donated by hedge fund managers that work on Wall St. The enrollment in certain selective charter schools is mostly white.
Beautifully said, Oakland Mom!
Fun facts about NYC’s David Koch and wife are reported at Daily Beast today. The wife, 23 years younger than the deceased David (who is rotting in hell) said, the pair “dedicated their lives’ work to philanthropic causes.” Based on the employee’s lawsuit, philanthropy “work” must include embarrassing, cliched activities of the filthy rich.
The Bluegrass Institute and other Koch-funded non-profit staff – another proud moment for them (sarcasm).
Without the specialized schools like Stuyvesant and TJ students will not get access to an appropriate curriculum, especially in the STEM fields.
If we are really interested in “a better education for all” we should be in favor of all students having access to an appropriate curriculum.
Specialized does not have to mean extremely selective. But I know what you mean. I went to a university lab school. Many of my high-school teachers had PhDs. I got to take classes, there, in subjects like wave motion and Russian history. Wonderful. However, the school enrolled students in its catchment, which included both townies and sons and daughters of professors.
Bob Shepherd,
The specialized high schools in NYC enroll students in its catchment. That catchment is the NYC public school system. A student who doesn’t live within the borders of the NYC public school system cannot enroll in a specialized high school. The students are mostly economically disadvantaged, but less so than in NYC public schools overall.
(Ironically, years ago the principal of the largest NYC specialized high school got into a lot of trouble and was fired because he himself lived outside of the NYC public school catchment area and had enrolled his child in a NYC public school by falsifying his address.)
The original purpose of specialized high schools were to focus on math, science and engineering type of classes. There are more boys than girls even today in those schools, despite changes in the curriculum. The big 3 still require a lot more advanced science/math courses than some very strong students who are more interested in humanities want to take, which is why a not insignificant number of students who take the SHSAT and score well will choose a good “non-specialized” high school instead.
Thanks for the explanation.
I also don’t care about “integrating” NYC’s specialized high schools.
School is about relationships between students and teachers. Those organizations that allow for all students to meet their teachers is a safe and challenging place are good. Otherwise, these organizations tend to leave out certain students. An example of this would be a specialized school that sucked up all the money, leaving the other students to rot in places where the relationships that are an education never have a chance.
I suspect that proper funding of all schools, if it had existed, would never have prompted this debate at all. But equitable funding of each student experience is a thing that is hard to find.
RT,
Do you think that all high schools would offer students the opportunity to take, say, the math curriculum at schools like Stuyvesant or Thomas Jefferson?
You raise a really interesting point, TE. We know that exceptional mathematical ability is fairly rare and is demonstrated pretty young. I’ve long thought that those kids need to be identified and given specialized instruction. Their gift is extraordinarily valuable to the society as a whole.
What I love about this article is that the journalist, K.A. Dilday appreciates her neighbors in diverse Central Harlem. That’s rare. It often seems a rare quality nowadays, the ability to see the grace and energy of others, regardless of income level. It’s rare to meet someone who sees the civic value of diverse, public, neighborhood schools instead of getting hung up on vanity and greed. It doesn’t make sense to want school selectivity so one can get a child ahead of other children because to care about a young person’s wellbeing and future is to care about the wellbeing and futures of all the other young people in the child’s community and world, as they are all inexorably connected. There is great beauty in those who speak up for a new day when all students sit together at the same table.
Just to be clear, the writer of the article did not send her kid to a “diverse public neighborhood school” — she sent her child to a lovely, diverse, progressive “choice” public school — Central Park East 1 — where admission is by lottery. Central Park East 1 is a very small and diverse school that attracts parents who want a progressive education. It is 43% economically disadvantaged and 28% white. But in District 4, where it is located, only 5% of the students are white and 82% of the students are economically disadvantaged. So while it is “diverse”, it is quite different from the neighborhood public schools in District 4 where it is located. Some parents may even travel to it from outside the neighborhood.
I happen to think it is fine to have public school choice schools like Central Park East 1 (and CPE 2, which is also disproportionately non-poor, but not as much as CPE 1). Unlike charters, Central Park East is part of the public school system. There is a good argument to be made that choice schools that are part of the system and don’t make dishonest comparisons to undermine neighborhood public schools serve a worthwhile purpose. I don’t know how you feel about that.
I agree with the overall points you made about the civic value of diverse, public, neighborhood schools. But that is not as simple as it seems in NYC. Do you keep Central Park Easts, which offer progressive education to the parents who want progressive education – which often means more affluent and educated parents? It is a very complicated issue. But the one issue that is not complicated is that every “choice” school should be like Central Park East and be part of the public school system and not a privately operated charter that uses public money to undermine public schools without giving students the same rights as they would have at Central Park East – a public school.
“But the one issue that is not complicated is that every “choice” school should be like Central Park East and be part of the public school system and not a privately operated charter that uses public money to undermine public schools without giving students the same rights as they would have at Central Park East – a public school.”
I agree.
This post is curious to me for 2 reasons:
I know K.A. Dilday.
This article is several years old.
I think her take on school integration at the SHS as a microaggression is valid. That said, while I don’t think the SHS are for every child or family, I don’t think that the NYC DOE does a good job of identifying and supporting Black and Latinx children who could succeed in that environment.
The main issue I have with her op-ed is the prejudice progressive education backers have against G&T. As @NYC public school parent mentioned above, a progressive education attracts a certain subset of parents, who IME can be self-righteous when it comes to G&T programs. The fact is that not every family wants a progressive education and it is not appropriate for all children, but that reality somehow never dims their sense of superiority. For instance, IMO a progressive education’s “reading optional” kindergarten is not appropriate for a child who was an early reader. They also like to crow about how their schools are not exclusionary. However, there is a substantial amount of self-selection in the admissions process regarding progressive schools, as has been previously mentioned. Also, IME once the DOE assigns the seats through the initial placement process, any open seats become the object of massive networking among interested parents. They also make the assumption that G&T programs are not diverse, which is not necessarily true.
The comments from the Asian parent irk me the most. Progressive school parents are desperate to believe that kids in G&T programs are solely test-taking automatons, when that is just not true. It’s curious that parents who claim to value the inherent abilities of all children stereotype G&T children. Often, I think this reflects these parents’ own insecurities and in her case her Asian family’s bias. While parents like Dilday willlingly choose a progressive education, I find that some harbor lingering doubts in the back of their mind about whether it was the right choice. Often these parents will enroll their child in a G&T program at the first opportunity.
In the end I believe that in the nation’s largest public school system there is room for all manner of real public school choices and that all parents’ decisions about their children’s education should be respected, even when it is not the decision you would have made yourself.
This was a really important addition to the conversation.
In my classroom some children need more than average time to talk with peers and very active play outside. Others thrive when given time to work alone on projects and love worksheets. I loved to read work in workbooks when I was in school and wouldn’t have been comfortable in a loud or too busy environment.
Two of the local systems near me have options for parents in grades 2-5. Some families choose a multi-age option. Others choose a more traditional. All within the same school. The families that choose a more traditional model have teachers that loop and work together in a pod. Neither route is touted as being better. Parents get input into what they feel may be the best fit for their child.
Ideally we would be able to provide choice of environments that support a diverse array of learners – without feeling like one teacher can meet all needs of all children or one way is the only way.