The language in this post is usually banned on this blog.
But the story is compelling.
The veteran begins:
“America, can we talk? Let’s just cut the shit for once and actually talk about what’s going on without blustering and pretending we’re actually doing a good job at adulting as a country right now. We’re not. We’re really screwing this whole society thing up, and we have to do better. We don’t have a choice. People are dying. At this rate, it’s not if your kids, or mine, are involved in a school shooting, it’s when. One of these happens every 60 hours on average in the US. If you think it can’t affect you, you’re wrong. Dead wrong. So let’s talk.
“I’ll start. I’m an Army veteran. I like M-4’s, which are, for all practical purposes, an AR-15, just with a few extra features that people almost never use anyway. I’d say at least 70% of my formal weapons training is on that exact rifle, with the other 30% being split between various and sundry machineguns and grenade launchers. My experience is pretty representative of soldiers of my era. Most of us are really good with an M-4, and most of us like it at least reasonably well, because it is an objectively good rifle. I was good with an M-4, really good. I earned the Expert badge every time I went to the range, starting in Basic Training. This isn’t uncommon. I can name dozens of other soldiers/veterans I know personally who can say the exact same thing. This rifle is surprisingly easy to use, completely idiot-proof really, has next to no recoil, comes apart and cleans up like a dream, and is light to carry around. I’m probably more accurate with it than I would be with pretty much any other weapon in existence. I like this rifle a lot. I like marksmanship as a sport. When I was in the military, I enjoyed combining these two things as often as they’d let me.
“With all that said, enough is enough…
”I understand that people want to be able to own guns. That’s ok. We just need to really think about how we’re managing this. Yes, we have to manage it, just as we manage car ownership. People have to get a license to operate a car, and if you operate a car without a license, you’re going to get in trouble for that. We manage all things in society that can pose a danger to other people by their misuse. In addition to cars, we manage drugs, alcohol, exotic animals (there are certain zip codes where you can’t own Serval cats, for example), and fireworks, among other things. We restrict what types of businesses can operate in which zones of the city or county. We have a whole system of permitting for just about any activity a person wants to conduct since those activities could affect others, and we realize, as a society, that we need to try to minimize the risk to other people that comes from the chosen activities of those around them in which they have no say. Gun ownership is the one thing our country collectively refuses to manage, and the result is a lot of dead people.
“I can’t drive a Formula One car to work. It would be really cool to be able to do that, and I could probably cut my commute time by a lot. Hey, I’m a good driver, a responsible Formula One owner. You shouldn’t be scared to be on the freeway next to me as I zip around you at 140 MPH, leaving your Mazda in a cloud of dust! Why are you scared? Cars don’t kill people. People kill people. Doesn’t this sound like bullshit? It is bullshit, and everybody knows. Not one person I know would argue non-ironically that Formula One cars on the freeway are a good idea. Yet, these same people will say it’s totally ok to own the firearm equivalent because, in the words of comedian Jim Jeffries, “f… you, I like guns”.
“Yes, yes, I hear you now. We have a second amendment to the constitution, which must be held sacrosanct over all other amendments. Dude. No. The constitution was made to be a malleable document. It’s intentionally vague. We can enact gun control without infringing on the right to bear arms. You can have your deer rifle. You can have your shotgun that you love to shoot clay pigeons with. You can have your target pistol. Get a license. Get a training course. Recertify at a predetermined interval. You do not need a military grade rifle. You don’t. There’s no excuse.
“But we’re supposed to protect against tyranny! I need the same weapons the military would come at me with!” Dude. You know where I can get an Apache helicopter and a Paladin?! Hook a girl up! Seriously, though, do you really think you’d be able to hold off the government with an individual level weapon? Because you wouldn’t. One grenade, and you’re toast. Don’t have these illusions of standing up to the government, and needing military style rifles for that purpose. You’re not going to stand up to the government with this thing. They’d take you out in about half a second.
“Let’s be honest. You just want a cool toy, and for the vast majority of people, that’s all an AR-15 is. It’s something fun to take to the range and put some really wicked holes in a piece of paper. Good for you. I know how enjoyable that is. I’m sure for a certain percentage of people, they might not kill anyone driving a Formula One car down the freeway, or owning a Cheetah as a pet, or setting off professional grade fireworks without a permit. Some people are good with this stuff, and some people are lucky, but those cases don’t negate the overall rule. Military style rifles have been the choice du jour in the incidents that have made our country the mass shootings capitol of the world. Formula One cars aren’t good for commuting. Cheetahs are bitey. Professional grade fireworks will probably take your hand off. All but one of these are common sense to the average American. Let’s fix that. Be honest, you don’t need that AR-15. Nobody does. Society needs them gone, no matter how good you may be with yours. Kids are dying, and it’s time to stop f…ing around.”

She’s awesome! I couldn’t agree more.
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Interesting turn of events locally. The press is outing members of Congress who are shills for the NRA, in some cases reporting the “opposition” funds from NRA supporters poured into the campaigns of people who are running against the shill. Some of the local members of Congress are also getting unwanted national publicity. The links here are worth looking at.
https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/rob-portman-who-tweeted-prayers-to-shooting-victims-enjoys-millions-in-nra-support
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Quote by a veteran: “You shouldn’t be scared to be on the freeway next to me as I zip around you at 140 MPH, leaving your Mazda in a cloud of dust! Why are you scared? Cars don’t kill people. People kill people.”
…….
I LOVE the comparison. My way of saying it is that “bombs and artillery fire don’t kill people”. It’s the same and it makes no sense except to the NRA, their followers and corrupt politicians.
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Could somebody send this to the media outlets and have them print it everywhere. Send it to John Oliver and have him read it on the air adding his own personal satire. The man who wrote this is a national hero right now.
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I’m in moderation on a different site. Will try it again. Good to see that one state is making a difference.
………………
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
February 18, 2018 at 7:08 am
In Wake of Florida Massacre, Gun Control Advocates Look to Connecticut…NYT
Connecticut, which passed a strict gun law after the 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, has seen a sharp drop in the number of gun deaths.
In the aftermath of the rampage at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, where 20 children and six educators were killed in 2012, state lawmakers in Connecticut set out to draft some of the toughest gun measures in the country.
They largely succeeded — significantly expanding an existing ban on the sale of assault weapons, prohibiting the sale of magazines with more than 10 rounds and requiring the registration of existing assault rifles and higher-capacity magazines. The state also required background checks for all firearms sales and created a registry of weapons offenders, including those accused of illegally possessing a firearm.
Now, in the wake of another wrenching shooting rampage — this one at a high school in Parkland, Fla., that killed 17 — and in the absence of any federal action, gun-control advocates, Democratic politicians and others are pointing to the success of states like Connecticut in addressing the spiraling toll of gun violence.
Analyses by the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence show that, with few exceptions, states with the strictest gun-control measures, including California, Connecticut, New Jersey and New York, have the lowest rates of gun deaths, while those with the most lax laws like Alabama, Alaska and Louisiana, have the highest.
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I can overlook the colorful language for the great talking points he provides. Good for him!
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I’m a former Marine and combat vet and no one needs an AR-15 to go hunting or defend their home. A single shot, bolt action rifle firing one round at a time is adequate for hunting and a single barrel, pump shotgun is the best home defense if someone actually breaks in your home when you are there.
If you fire at someone with an AR-15 that breaks into your home and you empty one or more clips, the odds are that you will also be shooting up your neighbors’ homes and maybe wounding or killing a few of your neighbors because those AR-15 rounds (the cheapest ones) go through walls and can even pass through several bodies.
An AR-15 or any automatic weapon is overkill for home defense or legal hunting of wild game.
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Never heard a Marine describe himself as a “former Marine” before. In fact, all the ones I know are extremely touchy about that. I’ve been told in no uncertain terms that the Corps is for life and that the proper term is “inactive”.
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Interesting point to bring up. I was confused because the blog writer described herself as Army Vet. Then realized you are replying to Lloyd. Now I wonder why the contention over his self description and those in your life experience. Is it of importance to correct Lloyd by pointing out his current status should be inactive rather than former?
I have not served in the military so my ignorance leads me to curiosity. I completely understand Lloyd’s comment. Very confused by your reply.
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I left the Marines in 1968 and in 1968 it was not correct to call yourself an ex-Marine and it still isn’t. The correct term in 1968 was former Marine, and I’m not going to change that even if some other Marine, active or inactive do not like it. How do I know that, because us former Marines from the 1960s talked about it back then and the consensus with the Marines I knew in the 1960s was “former Marine.”
I am NOT an active duty U.S. Marine.
I am NOT a reserve U.S. Marine.
I am a former Marine. I was active 1965 to 1968 and then inactive reserve up to the sixth year from my date of joining.
And yes, it is true that for most if not all Marines, we will always be Marines but with different adjectives describing our current status.If someone else wants to call themselves an inactive Marine, that’s their choice.
I’m a former Marine who still thinks like a Marine. I am not inactive. Inactive sounds like someone that’s a couch potato or brain dead.
I repeat. I am a FORMER Marine and the 1st Amendment allows me to express myself that way. And I will continue to do that.
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Lloyd Lofthouse has spoken . . .
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After I woke up the next morning, I thought that dienne77’s comment was an attempt to discredit me and brand me as a pretend Marine so what I think about firearm control wouldn’t count.
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Great post—already resent to the half dozen gun owners protesting my call to change the laws.
Thanks
DCB
David C. Berliner
Home: 120 E. Rio Salado Pkwy., #205
Tempe, AZ 85281
☎︎ 480-861-0484
Office: Regents’ Professor Emeritus,
Mary Lou Fulton Teachers College,
Arizona State University,
Tempe, AZ 85287
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Thank you for this article, we need all the cogent and rational arguments we can lay our hands on to counter the NRA propaganda mill. A GOP politician (maybe it was Rob Portman?) on Face The Nation said that the AR-15 was not the problem it was the shooter or the people who own them. He claimed that he has neighbors who own AR-15s and they are no threat to anyone because they are good guys with guns. At that point, I exploded in anger and screamed at the TV and this duplicitous snake who is beholden to the NRA and the gun manufacturers. The cursed AR-15 and other semi-automatics are damn well the problem. It’s like saying that TNT is not the problem, it’s irresponsible owners of TNT who are the problem. Good guys who own TNT are responsible, so don’t worry that your neighbor has a cellar full of TNT. May these people rot in hell for all eternity in an alien universe light years from earth, please.
If I hear another yahoo claim that guns don’t kill people or that guns are just tools I will projectile vomit all over central NJ.
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A-bombs don’t kill people. People who own A-bombs kill people. That’s why Wal-Mart should sell A-bombs. Also Molotov cocktails. And grenades. And bazookas.
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Seems like all snake-oil salespeople learn their craft from the same playbook.
So in the spirit of your short but hard-hitting comment—
“Guns don’t kill people, people kill people” falls smack dab flat on its face with the rejoinder “Guns don’t kill people, people with guns kill people.”
Especially when those people are every Tom, Dick and Mary that can pony up the Benjamins, any and all disqualifying factors be damned.
And then there’s the placard I saw from Parkland, FLA: “Guns don’t die, people die.”
Heartfelt thanks for this posting.
😎
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Yes, Diane. I just picked up some nuclear warheads at Walmart. They were on sale in the clearance aisle. They’re not really dangerous only unless a living person makes the conscious decision to use them.
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Bombs don’t kill people. People kill people.
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“A-bombs don’t kill people. ”
Nevertheless, even famous hawks like Kissinger or Schultz call for nuclear disarmament. I wonder if these old timers feel any conflict between their call for nuclear disarmament and their support of NRA.
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I’ll be sure to steer clear of central N.J. for some time to come!
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*Whoops, it was Meet The Press and it was Sen. James Lankford (R-Okla.) who thinks that AR-15s are no big deal. It’s not the gun, it’s never the gun with these NRA tools.
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Portman or Lankford, it doesn’t matter, they all have interchangeable parts.
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“AR-15 was not the problem it was the shooter or the people who own them. ”
Well, a mass shooter cannot mass shoot with a knife, can he?
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Let’s hope the young people will get into the streets and demand a change. ENOUGH!
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MC,
Why is this up to the young people? Everyone should be demanding change when our schools are sites for murder.
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Michael Ian Black makes a good point: is the proliferation of mass violence with guns also related to the language of masculinity? Not only do all mass killings have AR-15s and the guns in common, they are also all perpetrated by males, mostly young (Las Vegas and Orlando as exceptions to that rule): https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gun-violence-toxic-masculinity-tweets_us_5a85ead4e4b05c2bcac8ec08
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There are plenty of women who are gung-ho supporters of the death and destruction machine that is the US military and US “foreign policy”. They cheer justs a madly (yes, meaning insanely) for “our troops” and the death and destruction they cause around the world. It’s not just the province of the “language of masculinity”.
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Kurt Tucholsky once wrote that the most gruesome of all creatures is a patriotic woman, a sentiment with which I tend to agree. It is trivially interesting, though, that I can think of no instance when a female committed a mass shooting.
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I can. Laurie Dann. Less dramatic than those we are facing now. It changed laws in area towns although there has been a concerted effort over the years to reverse them.
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This sounds good, but get the facts from the FBI not your old BS Army buddies. So called assault weapons kill 2% of the people. To get the Expert rating as per the Army you have to get 36 out of 40. In controlled situations, as in no body is shooting at you, they aren’t blowing stuff up around you. It’s basically range shooting in different positions. My youngest son has just finished Army Boot at Ft Benning. He scored a 40-40. Only 14 out of the 214 did that. Expert rating is achieved by 1 in 5, which is 36 out of 40.
Nobody is saying much about the 500,000 dying from tobacco, or the 200,000 killed by hospitals and doctors by malpractice. More people are killed by vehicles. More people are killed using drugs. Twice as many people are killed with alcohol. Gun deaths are the 10th on the FBI list of deaths in the USA.
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alphawolf: :”Nobody is saying much about the 500,000 dying from tobacco, or the 200,000 killed by hospitals and doctors by malpractice. More people are killed by vehicles. More people are killed using drugs. Twice as many people are killed with alcohol. Gun deaths are the 10th on the FBI list of deaths in the USA.”
……
I guess its perfectly okay to have only 2% of the population killed by assault weapons. Hey, its only 10th on the FBI list of deaths! Am I and all the people suffering from these deaths of friends and family supposed to now say everything is perfectly fine since you had a better chance of being killed by tobacco, by an incompetent doctor or in a car accident? That sentiment will get you really far. Thanks for all your compassion.
The Cruz fellow had taken a course in his school on how to handle a rifle. The NRA gave $10,000 to ensure he got the proper training. It worked really well. Hope your son doesn’t turn out to be a young person who REALLY knows how to handle an assault weapon but has no compassion on who gets killed.
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Does psychology have a definition for overcompensating projection?
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“So called assault weapons kill 2% of the people.”
Do you realize how idiotic the above sounds? Why don’t you go ahead and write an email directly to one of the Florida moms whose child just got shot and killed and console her with “Hey, don’t take it personally, you just got unlucky; your child had only a 2% chance of being killed by an assault weapon.”
Besides sounding clueless by quoting stats and trying to sound scientific, you also need to face the fact how irrelevant your data is: we are talking about mass shootings of children and brave teachers who tried to protect them, not about “general causes of deaths around the world” and we certainly don’t give a crap about your son’s amazing scores in a shooting range.
If you want to serve relevant statistics, why not tell us: How many of these mass shootings in schools were committed with a knife? Or even: According to science, how many of these killing sprees could be committed with a knife?
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“More people are killed by vehicles.”
The same argument could be used about 9/11: “What’s the big deal? Only two thousand people died in the towers. Why not instead talk about the twenty three thousand people who got killed by motor vehicles in the same year? That’s ten times more deaths!”
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If I may cut to the chase:
Why anyone is surprised at the mass killings in this country is beyond me. This country is built on death and destruction, we are the leading purveyors of death machines by far in the world. We glorify the Department of War, the US military in a fashion such that if one questions the whole patriotic flag, anthem and other bullshit, one is thought to be insane. This country is a death machine, plain and simple.
Go ahead, deny it, fool yourselves, Oh, we’re the greatest country in the world, the shining city on the hill. HORSE MANURE. Until this country comes to grips with its love affair with everything military and death machine related, you can count on these mass killings to keep occurring.
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BINGO Duane…
“Hate your next door neighbor but don’t forget to say grace
and tell me over and over and over again my friend
ahh ‘ya don’t believe…”
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No one ever accused you of mincing words. We have caused a lot of death and destruction. We are not alone. The Hittites, the Assyrians, the Mongols, Romans, Visagoths, Vandals, …need I go on?
In world history class one day I was commenting on the particular cruelty on some aspect of World War I. One of my students had had enough. She protested that all we ever talk about is people being cruel to each other. I stopped clas and told her that was a most astute observation. We talked about why history ignores all the good people doing good things. I later learned she had witnessed a horrendous crime.
Maybe we should spend more time teaching about the good things humans do.
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You said it all. Thank you! Now students are getting involved! They might be able to make a difference!
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I read every comment to that post even the ones that claimed Sandy Hook was a hoax. Then there are the commenters who are going to “protect his/her own.” Can’t you see the videos of him/her standing triumphantly in front of his/her little band of survivors while s/he surveys the carnage. Let’s just hope the carnage doesn’t include the innocents who don’t qualify as “his/her own.” No foreign country is going to have to invade us. They just have to sit back and watch us destroy ourselves. Heck, with a little help from social media, we can probably implode faster than you can say “fake news!” I am beginning to wonder if gun ownership should be predicated on the ability to pass a test that outlines the history behind the second amendment but also the history of more recent events as well. I keep coming back to that quote by Daniel Patrick Moynihan: “You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”
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I went to the post and read some of the comments. I was struck by the vagrant approach of so many of the people who responded to the man’s post. The conversation in Diane’s living room, while passionate, is reasoned and respectful. I like it here.
Still, it is not a representative sample of our society. We are devolving into a group of shouting true believers, parroting sound bites from one side or another.
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Roy,
Who do you think should be here, who is missing?
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You are correct Roy that the commentators here are not necessarily a representative sample of society. However, we do represent a good gathering of those who truly care not only for our community public schools but also what it takes to guarantee an equitable and just education for ALL students as is outlined in the various state constitutions. It would be nice for all in society to put in the effort that most here do to inform themselves of the aforementioned items. But, hey, not everything thing “floats everyone’s boat”. Recognizing that is an essential part of the liberty/freedom of thought that we do enjoy.
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I am perfectly happy with the company here. It is the rest of the world that worries me. I was trying to make a point that the comments on the original site degenerated into name calling while folks here generally try to explain how they feel. Sorry I was unclear.
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Roy,
I occasionally feel compelled to block people whose comments demean teachers or whose mission is to waste my time by demanding that I answer picayune or obnoxious questions.
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Even if we got rid of all the assault rifles, other semi-auto guns will remain available. They can be a relatively easily substitute for a military type weapon. All of the authors points are well made and spot on, I would respectfully add some additional ones: First, a total ban on all high capacity magazines, both internal and external, and a total ban on all removeable magazines of any capacity. High capacity and/or removeable magazines are a feature that should only be found on weapons issued to the military since that is where a legitimate need exists, and only there. The reason for this ban is that a skilled, practiced marksman can change magazines so quickly and smoothly that no difference in the rate of fire will be noticed, even if they have to be changed every few seconds. All civilian weapons must have internal, low capacity magazines only. I would also add that the insane fear of some vaguely described “gov’t tyranny” is an insult to both our military and our law enforcement officers. Who believes that they would all simply obey illegal, unconstitutional orders to infringe in any way on the rights and freedoms of their own families and communities? Ain’t gonna happen. The real tyranny is that of the domestic terrorist group called the NRA, and their weapon of choice, aimed at a gov’t of by and for the people is money, not guns. The point about disproportionate firepower of true military vs. civilian armaments is dead on. Just look online for you tubes of the Specter Gunship in action, or the Bradley fighting vehicle. An assault rifle is meaningless against stuff like that.
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I’ve been sending protest letters to my Senator Todd Young (R-IN) every day since I found out how much money he got from the NRA. Here is my protest letter for today…Feb. 19, 2018:
Headline: Corrupt Senator Todd Young…Why are AR-15’s allowed when they mass kill people? $2,896,732 from NRA tells you how to vote!!! SHAME!!!
The Florida shooter was a teenager who legally bought an AR-15 assault-style rifle. It was used in killings at Sandy Hook Elementary school, The Orlando night-club and Las Vegas massacre.
Why are such weapons allowed to be manufactured and purchased in America? The responsibility of our government is to provide minimal protection to its citizens. Seems like you’ve forgotten all about safety and security of innocent people when it comes to mass killings.
$2,896,732 can buy a lot of loyalty from the NRA. You’re corrupt and have been bought out. I am ashamed to say that you are my Senator.
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NPR covered a Florida gun owner who surrendered AR-57 after the shooting.
https://www.npr.org/2018/02/17/586825434/after-parkland-shooting-a-florida-gun-owner-gives-up-his-ar-57?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180218
It’s not an AR-15, but a similar type of semi-automatic weapon.
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All firearms are designed to hurl projectiles with deadly force. Even a pistol designed for target shooting or a shotgun designed for skeet/trap shooting, will do this.
How is it news, that an AR-15 is designed to kill people?
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Is it a hunting gun? What other purpose does it have other than killing people? It is a weapon of war.
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The news is that civilians have no real need of weapons designed for war, the critical difference being magazine capacity and ease of reloading. Soldiers need that feature, high capacity, removable magazines, civilians do not. It’s long past time for civilian guns to be allowed to only have non-removable low capacity internal magazines.
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Charles,
May you never be on the receiving end of a mad person with a semi-automatic.
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I am a veteran. I served for five years in the US Air Force. I served for two years in nuclear weapons control. I served for two years on a front-line combat base in West Germany, 8 minutes flying time from Soviet jets, armed with nuclear missiles. I also served ten (10) years, as a civilian on combat bases in Iraq/Afghanistan. I was shot at, and had to spend many nights in bunkers, when the terrorists were shelling my base with artillery. I know what it means, to be under fire, and not be able to return fire. Civilians are (normally) not permitted to carry weapons in Iraq/Afghanistan, under the Geneva Convention. Two of my co-workers were killed in Afghanistan, and another lost a hand in an IED explosion.
I have experienced combat fire, up close and personal. I need no lectures from you!
Personally, guns give me the heebeejeebies. I do not want one in my home, they creep me out. Fortunately, I live in an area, with very low crime and I have an ADT alarm.
I support all of the constitution. Like some atheists, support freedom of religion, even though they do not practice a religion.
I am all for reasonable restrictions on firearms ownership by private citizens. I am 100% for background checks, to keep firearms out of the hands of mentally ill people, felons, domestic abusers, etc. I am for restricting the size of ammo magazines. Private citizens do NOT need automatic weapons, bazookas, claymore mines, rocket-propelled grenades, etc.
I cannot imagine a person hunting game with an AR-15. I would think that a high-powered rifle, with a scope, would be adequate. An AR-15, is definitely a weapon designed to kill people, no doubt.
Second amendment supporters are opposing bans on certain types of weapons, with the “camel’s nose” mentality. Some (not all) defenders of the constitutional right to keep and bear arms, believe that if one class of weapons can be banned, then another, and then another, etc.
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I want my own personal bazooka and shoulder fired missile!
The Constitution as written has evolved to reflect the times.
Do you want blood on your hands for every child killed by a monster exercising his 2nd Amendment “rights”?
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Just what are you advocating, Diane. I would have thought that the gun control measures Charles supports are aimed at keeping guns out of the hands of child killing monsters. Did I misread him?
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Charles has defended the unlimited right to carry arms of any kind at any time. Don’t be fooled. He thinks the Second Amendment should have no limits or restrictions.
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@ Speduktr: No, you did not misread me. I have stated repeatedly, that I am 100% for reasonable restrictions on access to firearms.
Mentally ill people, felons, domestic abusers, should not be permitted access to deadly weapons. Certain types of weapons, must not be permitted in private hands: Rocket-propelled grenades, bazookas, automatic weapons, machine guns, etc. Certain ammunition, like “cop-killer” bullets must be banned outright. Magazine capacity must be limited. Access to conversion kits, to modify semi-automatic weapons to full automatic (bump stocks), must be banned.
I have never stated that the 2d amendment should have no limits or restrictions. That is just not the case. None of our rights are unlimited.
Freedom of religion, does not permit human sacrifice. Freedom of speech does not permit shouting “fire” in a crowded theater. Freedom of speech, does not protect slander. Freedom of the press does not protect libel.
I do support banning certain types of weapons. The Supreme Court banned sawed-off shotguns in the case of Miller v. US (1939). No private citizen ever needs a sawed-off shotgun.
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“No private citizen ever needs a sawed-off shotgun.”
Are you sure about that? If the only firearm a homeowner has is a shotgun for home defense against break-ins, one that is sawed off would work better inside the confines of a house if the home is ever broken into while the family is there.
But then, there would be no need to ever take that sawed-off shotgun out of the house. It could still be illegal to have one outside of the home. A felony even.
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@Lloyd: Check out the Supreme Court case of Miller v. US (1939). The Supremes decided (and I agree), that this class of weapons should be banned.
The firepower, and scattering ability of a sawed-off shotgun is beyond dispute, and I stipulate that such a weapon would serve as a powerful deterrent, in the closed confines of a private home.
I must go with the court on this one.
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In 1939 “The Supremes decided (and I agree), that this class of weapons (sawed-off shotguns) should be banned.”
We could use that Supreme Court right now because they’d probably rule against assault weapons too like an AR-15.
Between an AR-15 and a sawed-off shotgun, which one will do the most damage?
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Q
We could use that Supreme Court right now because they’d probably rule against assault weapons too like an AR-15.
Between an AR-15 and a sawed-off shotgun, which one will do the most damage?
END Q
The current Supreme Court, is composed of individuals who have a much different view of 2d amendment rights, that the court in 1939 did. The Court ruled in 2008, in the Heller v. US case, that the right to keep and bear arms was an individual right.
I am not a ballistics expert. Comparing a sawed-off shotgun to an AR15 is a difficult comparison.
A sawed-off shotgun hurls many projectiles simultaneously, and for a limited distance. An AR15 is a single-projectile weapon (when in the semi-automatic mode), and hurls a single projectile for a much longer distance.
For crowd control, and for a person without extensive marksmanship training, the sawed-off shotgun would be preferable (see James Caan’s character in the film “El Dorado”).
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I don’t think you watched that video where an AR-15 and shotgun were compared. If you did, how many targets did the AR-15 hit vs the shotgun?
I watched that video and in the time it took to fire the shotgun several times, the AR-15 fired off more than one clip hitting way more targets and some targets farther away than the ones the shotgun hit. In fact, the most distant target the shotgun hit was one hit by two pellets instead of the entire load of one shell because the pellets scatter and spread out over distance. An AR-15 round doesn’t do that. In fact, an AR-15 round can go through one target, a body, and even hit others.
And the older man comparing the two weapons had nothing but raved for the AR-15 because it was more accurate, he could fire more rounds faster and hit more targets close and far.
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Lloyd, Charles, you got me with the very first statement you guys made about these weapons: clearly, both guns should be banned for civilians. First I also thought, we should ban saws as well, so that they couldn’t be used to saw off a shotgun’s barrel, but on second thought a more sane idea is to just ban shotguns. They unpredictably spray tiny little led bullets all over the place. If they don’t kill, they blind people or animals.
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:o)
Banning saws would upset a lot of carpenters. No more stick built houses framed out of wood.
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Carpenters could use an axes, which gives them a chance to exercise. Think about it: without the saw, you may give up the endless fixing of your house, and in the freed up time, you could watch reality TV.
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With an ax, we’d be returning to the log cabin. How about chisels for shaping the logs so we could return to wood joinery and do away with nails? After all with a hammer and nails, nut cases could run around pounding nails into people’s heads.
I’ve read that houses built without nails using wood joinery are stronger in earthquakes.
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No reality TV for me. I’d be reading and writing more books while my body rotted from inactivity.
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What a pile of crap to have the country come down this low. There are just TOO MANY GUNS IN THIS COUNTRY!! And there should be politicians who are willing to show some backbone. Why are the only ones being heard are the proponents of ‘more guns for everyone’?
……………
From The New York Times:
School Shootings Put Teachers in New Role as Human Shields
Around the country, teachers are reflecting on whether they are prepared to take a bullet for their students. “I think about it all the time,” one said.
Across the country, teachers are grappling with how their roles have expanded, from educator and counselor to bodyguard and protector. They wonder if their classrooms are properly equipped, if they would recognize the signs of a dangerous student, and most of all, if they are prepared to jump in front of a bullet.
In the last few days, teachers wrote to Congress, urging bans on assault weapons, and to state lawmakers, seeking permission to carry firearms to school. They attended local protests and reviewed safety plans with students. And in the evenings, they spoke with friends and family about an excruciating reality — that teachers, who once seemed mostly removed from the life-or-death risks faced by the ranks of police officers and firefighters, might now be vulnerable.
“I visualized what it would look like, and it made me sick,” said Catherine Collett, 28, a sixth-grade teacher in Northern Virginia who has spent recent days running through a thousand violent scenarios. “Could I empty out the cabinet and throw out the shelves and put kids in the cabinets? Is my better chance just barricading the doors? Can I move furniture that fast? Do I ask my kids to help me?”
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I have seen many posts elsewhere that teachers should be armed now. Some universities like mine already allow profs to carry. Here is an opinion on this from a friend who is a Marine.
I understand why arming teachers might sound appealing, and I will even grant you that if every teacher had a gun, one of them could probably stop an active shooter eventually. However, I guarantee you that even with every teacher armed, an active shooter would still be able to do massive amounts of damage. Think about this situation: an active shooter slips into a school despite their having an armed security guard patrolling the campus – because honestly, that is not much of an obstacle to get around. The shooter walks into a classroom with one teacher and 25 students. Even if that teacher had a pistol readily accessible on their hip, if a shooter walks into the classroom with a gun already drawn and at the ready, he’s going to shoot that teacher first and then start shooting students. Arming teachers makes teachers the first in the line of fire, and most teachers don’t get paid enough for the job they are already doing without us asking them to put their life on the line. After the shooter takes out the teacher, he’ll start shooting the 25 students in the class. How many do you think he’ll be able to kill before someone else shows up? And even when someone else does show up, the shooter will have had plenty of time to take up a position that allows him to accurately shoot any teacher that approaches the doorway to that classroom before the teacher can even get sight alignment and take an accurate shot – the teacher has to scan the entire room and find the person that doesn’t belong and take a shot; the shooter just has to keep their sights aligned on the doorway. Also, it’s a lot more difficult to fire while moving, especially when you’re trying to find a target that could either be hiding or also moving. What kinds of guns are we going to give teachers, and how many rounds of ammunition will each have? Even if each had 7 to 10 rounds, they are a lot more likely to miss than you’d think, because if they’ve only ever shot at the target range, they’re probably not prepared for moving while firing at a potentially moving target. Even if a teacher is a hunter, most hunting involves taking up a stable position and waiting for the prey to cross your path, which is exactly what an active shooter does… but sure, eventually, a teacher might get lucky and take the shooter out, or the SWAT team will show up.
It takes a significant amount of intensive training to be able to handle a close quarters active shooter situation in even a moderately effective way. When I was in the Marines, I went through Embassy Security school where we constantly trained in room clearing and close quarters tactics. I was a Marine Embassy Guard for three years, and we regularly retrained and conducted drills for armed intruder situations. It was always understood that, as the ones clearing an armed intruder, the odds were against us, and the shooter would most likely take out at least one of the Marines clearing before the rest could disable him. The shooter has the advantage of picking their vantage point, potentially fortifying their position, and then just wait for bodies to cross his sights. I’m sorry, but it’s unfair to ask teachers to put themselves in that kind of situation, and they do not have the time to invest in developing the skills or discipline required anyway. Without that thorough and regular training, I’m sorry to say, but most people will lose their nerve under threat of death, and even if they are still willing to actively try to take down a shooter, odds are that they will get startled by a regular student or another member of faculty carrying a gun. If a frightened teacher rounds a corner and sees someone else with a gun, what do you think are the odds of them accidentally squeezing the trigger out of a panic reflex? I’d say the odds are incredibly high. Next, consider the actual authorities responding to the situation – how effective will they be at their job if they have to sift through a sea of people they don’t know that are all carrying guns? Police are just people like the rest of us, subject to fear and mistakes. There are plenty of examples when police have accidentally shot someone that wasn’t even carrying a gun when they weren’t even responding to an incident where gunfire was reported.
Again, I can understand why arming teachers might seems like an appealing course of action, but take it from someone that has done a fair bit of training in this area – it will definitely not solve the problem, and it will likely make a bad situation worse.
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Mike Klonsky made a great point on his blog tonight. I didn’t post it because I know I have already overwhelmed you and it should not be a full-time job to read this blog, esp since I announced I was cutting back to one a day (ha!).
Mike said that if the FBI had immediately investigated Nikolas Cruz, nothing would have happened because he didn’t do anything illegal until he killed 17 people. His gun was legal. He wrote some nasty comments on his social media pages, but that is not illegal.
The FBI was blamed by Trump for failing to act, but what could they have done to an angry teen who had broken no laws?
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“esp since I announced I was cutting back to one a day (ha!).”
Yeah, I was wondering about that, and I thought maybe I missed a part where you said “I am cutting back to one post one month from now”.
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Mate,
I want to cut back but the Florida massacre made me explode with rage and sorrow.
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Which is why we prefer this blog over others. 🙂
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Máté Wierdl and Diane: I agree. I post comments online to a variety of sources. It is a way to get relief from the frustration that comes from not having a voice in Congress that can match the voices of billionaires who are looking for ways to make more for themselves. I’m sick of the number of outright lies the GOP, and occasionally Dems, continue to spew. I have to speak out and this blog allows me to do that. Thank you, Diane.
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“The FBI was blamed by Trump for failing to act, but what could they have done to an angry teen who had broken no laws?”
I think this is a general flaw in the Constitution (with due respect): it guarantees freedoms without setting limits. Experience shows that allowing limitless freedoms end up freedoms only for a few who then use it to hurt the rest in various, often hideous ways. This double-edged sword nature of limitless freedoms appears universal, and it is not restricted to those guaranteed by the 2nd amendment.
No law should count on the individual’s good will to act reasonably, because then a few unreasonable people can turn the world upside-down, and all the reasonables can do is stand by.
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I agree with what your Marine friend said. For instance, if an entire armed division of combat-trained Marines can’t stop one VC from infiltrating our lines (getting past the concertina wire, the claymore mines with trip wires, and bunkers with Marines on watch) and reaching the airbase we guarded and blowing up bladders of jet fuel, how can any school stop one determined armed nut case.
Arming teachers will not change the odds. In fact, arming millions of teachers and turning our public schools into armed camps will make the situation worse.
Having fought in Vietnam, I know that it is almost impossible to know when and where anyone will strike and be ready for them. That’s why our base camps over there were surrounded by concertina wire a dozen feet high, claymores, other land mines, and bunkers behind them that had heavily armed and highly trained Marines on watch 24-7.
In combat situations, fractions of seconds count. One second can be peaceful and tranquil and the next second hell arrives and keeps on coming.
Anyone that thinks to arm millions of teachers and custodians is going to stop these killings has no idea what they are talking about.
Making assault weapons illegal for civilians and having lockdown plans in place with secure doors and classrooms is a much better place to start.
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Anyone who thinks that a teacher whose job is to teach could instantaneously turn into a one man or woman SWAT team or would want to has a Rambo fantasy going. Can you imagine the job description? The number of candidates for teaching positions would really tank. Even TFA would have trouble recruiting their five week wonders. How long do you suppose they would devote to specialized training? Let’s see…if you can teach in five weeks, how long would it take to become SWAT team ready?
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Máté Wierdl: I see this as a scenario from hell. Why not have a shoot-out from the OKAY CORRAL? Legislators who see this as the answer, and I”m sure the NRA would give its blessing, are absolutely crazy.
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Here is a variation on the “arm the teachers” scheme, namely have now marshalls guard schools. Apparently these are already experimented with in, where else, Texas.
http://www.wfaa.com/mobile/article/news/local/denton-county/texas-teachers-can-pack-heat-florida-lawmakers-pushing-for-options/519416914
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LaPierre is a horrible person. Talk about someone who produces fear and hatred. Trump puts his trust in this individual? They are two of a kind. Both work to destroy society.
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Mr. LaPierre: “He raised the specter of mass gun confiscation….this political disease rises to power, its citizens are repressed, their freedoms destroyed and their firearms are banned and confiscated.”
From The New York Times:
N.R.A. Chief, Wayne LaPierre, Offers Fierce Defense of 2nd Amendment
…Mr. LaPierre leveled a searing indictment against liberal Democrats, the news media and political opportunists he said were joined together in a socialist plot to “eradicate all individual freedoms.”
Mr. LaPierre’s pugnacious appearance appeared to signal a tactical shift for the N.R.A., which had officially remained mostly quiet in the week after the Florida shooting, even as a movement of young people, including survivors of the massacre, made emotional pleas for gun control. The organization typically uses the first few days after an episode of mass gun violence to lie low before it comes out hard in opposition to any new gun control measures.
“The N.R.A. will not only speak out,” he said, “we will speak out louder and we will speak out stronger than ever before.”
Mr. LaPierre, who for around three decades has been the N.R.A.’s public face of unwavering resistance to tighter restrictions on guns, used his speech to play to the fear and mistrust that many on the right have toward government.
He raised the specter of mass gun confiscation. He accused federal agencies like the Justice Department of weaponizing their power to punish political enemies. He warned darkly that “our country will be changed forever” at the hands of socialist conspirators.
“History proves it. Every time in every nation in which this political disease rises to power, its citizens are repressed, their freedoms are destroyed and their firearms are banned and confiscated,” he said, reading slowly and deliberately from his prepared text.
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So a trained security guard froze when the shooting started but teachers with guns can protect students at a time of chaos? Great idea put forth by the NRA and our Orange IDIOT.
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Armed Sheriff’s Deputy ‘Never Went In’ During Florida Shooting…NYT
Surveillance video showed the only armed security guard at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., doing “nothing” during last week’s deadly shooting.
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — The only armed security guard on campus during a deadly mass shooting at a Florida high school last week “never went in” to a building to try to take down the shooting suspect, Sheriff Scott Israel of Broward County said at a news conference on Thursday…Police protocol requires confronting shooting suspects as quickly as possible. Mr. Peterson should have “went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer,” Sheriff Israel said at a news conference in Fort Lauderdale.
Instead, the deputy remained outside the freshman building at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., on Feb. 14 for “upwards of four minutes” while the shooting suspect, Nikolas Cruz, was inside. Mr. Cruz is accused of killing 17 people in less than six minutes.
Surveillance video showed Mr. Peterson was doing “nothing,” Mr. Israel said.
Mr. Israel described himself as “devastated, sick to my stomach.”
“There are no words,” he said…
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Yes, the trained and armed security guard stayed out of the building, hid behind a concrete column.
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I’m sorry, Diane, but I really can’t fault the security guard. Haven’t we all heard on T.V. cops being urged to wait for backup? I know nothing about this stuff and I can imagine the snickers at my television reference, but is one guy with a handgun really going to do much against an AR-15? I read somewhere that only 30%(?) of a trained police officer’s shots are going to hit a target in gun battle. (Where do the rest go, particularly in a school?) You get in the way of an AR-15 and you will be hit. I also heard tonight a report on what the ammunition typically used in an AR-15 does to a body. Basically, it sounded like you were almost invariably quickly dead if you got hit center mass. The report was much more graphic. they needed a scapegoat and the security guard was convenient. I think his choice was basically to take cover (and maybe even hope the shooter exited where he could get an aimed shot or two off from a protected posiition or go in and die. Does anyone who knows what they are talking about have have a comment?
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No, armed guards are now trained to run to the fight, not hide.
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Where do the rest of the bullets go? Good question.
Soon after I moved into the house I’m now renovating without end, there was a shooting two doors down. One of the older sons went crazy threatening his parents, and the mother called the police. When the police arrived in several squad cars and filled the street in front of that house, that crazy, older son came out of the house yelling profanities and waiving around an automatic pistol. The police told him to put the weapon down, etc. etc.
By then, half the street was out and gathering a crowd to watch this real life “reality TV episode”. I stayed in my house and moved away from the front rooms and windows. I’ve been in combat, and I was thinking how ignorant and stupid most of my neighbors were as they crowded closer to the police to watch.
The police opened fire riddling that house with bullets, and one of the bullets hit the older brother’s younger brother inside the house. The older brother never got hit but he was disarmed and arrested. The younger brother was rushed to the hospital in serious condition and he survived. I didn’t follow up to find out what happened to the older brother. Hopefully, he is locked away for a very long time. The older brother never got off one shot. I also don’t watch reality TV.
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“I also don’t watch reality TV.”
I do enjoy a good drama, mystery,… I don’t recognize any reality I want to or have participated in on the so-called reality shows.
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I don’t have all of the facts yet. BUT- This one fact, illustrates all the more, why giving weapons to school teachers, is totally and absolutely wrong. It is the craziest idea, since “looney Tunes”.
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So Betsy DeVos and NRA president Wayne LaPierre want more guns in the schools. This is just plain SICK!! Our schools should not become prisons and places where fear contaminates everything. I had no idea that some schools were this ‘hardened’. Look at the disaster that is in LA schools.
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Arming Educators Violates the Spirit of the Second Amendment
The constitutional provision enshrined the principle of individual liberty—and extending a militarized state into the schools would only undermine it.
…Education Secretary Betsy DeVos said in an interview last week that states “clearly have the opportunity and the option” to arm teachers. On Thursday at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), National Rifle Association Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre echoed that sentiment, saying, “we must immediately harden our schools.”
For many others, such “hardening” goes well beyond just arming teachers. In the Florida county where the Parkland massacre took place, the sheriff announced yesterday that police officers will be allowed to carry rifles on school grounds.
Many other districts are already well beyond “hardened.” Los Angeles school police procured grenade launchers, rifles, and an armored personnel carrier through a federal surplus program. Police in Compton, California, are allowed to wear AR-15 rifles, and a Colorado district began distributing them in 2016. There are now plenty school districts across America with armed school police officers, complete with metal detectors, body armor, and K-9 units. Even the patently outlandish suggestion of Newsmax host Wayne Root to provide schools with armed drones isn’t so far from reality. Schools already have drones, though not (yet) armed.
As Vox’s Jane Coaston argued, these suggestions mostly amount to security theater, and there is little data suggesting that armed school officials have a meaningful impact on student safety. Even metal detectors haven’t really helped reduce violence, and that’s against both the steady stream of more mundane events of gun violence that plague some schools and the annual massacres….
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/the-absurdity-of…
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Security theaters are great business. Just think about what happened at airports after 9/11. And the incredible increase of ticket prices tells you, who pays for it (in addition to the tax dollars shelled to airline companies for “their increased costs”).
My feeling is, something similar will happen in schools now: no weapons will be banned, but enormous amount of money will be spent on turning public schools into bunkers.
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Trump Quote: “I don’t think I’ll be going up against them,” he said. “I really think the NRA wants to do what’s right. I mean, they’re very close to me, I’m very close to them, they’re very, very great people. They love this country. They’re patriots. The NRA wants to do the right thing.”
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Orange idiot.
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The best part of this parody is the end. There are two videos. The parody is the second one labeled, “ORANGE SH#THOLE RAMBLES INCOHERENTLY”
On Thursday, Twitter user @SpikedCranium cut in clips of people reacting to Trump’s comments. The video, which is both amusing and slightly chilling, ends with a fierce rebuke of Trump’s proposals.
Parody Of Donald Trump’s Speech About Arming Teachers Is So …
President Donald Trump’s rambling speech about arming some teachers to prevent school shootings has received the parody it deserves.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-arm-teachers-parody_us…
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Link doesn’t work.
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Máté Wierdl: Sorry. Don’t know what happened. I see that sometimes U-tube videos get cut off also for no known reason. I wonder what is going on.
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Try this link. I just did and its working. Check out the second video. The parody is labeled, “ORANGE SH#THOLE RAMBLES INCOHERENTLY”
https://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNFh35IbiJyhSAd2o7VJb4PycYs7_g&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&ei=MjqQWujcN5KMW6ybgrAH&url=https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-arm-teachers-parody_us_5a8fe3e8e4b03b55731ac8ae
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That video was either removed or the site crashed from all the clicks.
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Try this link. I just did and its working. Check out the second video. The parody is labeled, “ORANGE SH#THOLE RAMBLES INCOHERENTLY”
https://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNFh35IbiJyhSAd2o7VJb4PycYs7_g&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&ei=MjqQWujcN5KMW6ybgrAH&url=https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-arm-teachers-parody_us_5a8fe3e8e4b03b55731ac8ae
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Trump’s idiotic, flawed reasoning is, if teachers are armed, the shooters will stop hitting schools. They are cowards.
But, most if not all of the shooters end up being killed or kill themselves after the rampage. They are to full of hate and anger in their insanity to fear to attack a school. In fact, a shooter might see it as a challenge to take out as many armed teachers as the shooter can.
I’m sure they think they are living a real-life video game and the kids and teachers are their targets. If they kill five or six before some teacher manages to shoot them if the shooter doesn’t shoot the teacher first, then as the shooter dies, he will think he won because he took out five or six before he went down.
Have you ever seen a paintball gun range with obstacles and targets?
Instead of shooting paintballs, the angry, hate-filled, crazy shooter has real targets and knows he will probably end up dead.
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This is a good sign. It looks like the NRA is finding out that people are disgusted enough to walk with their pocketbooks. Money is the only thing that matters.
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Ties to the N.R.A. Leave Companies Scrambling for Cover…NYT
…Caught in an angry social media storm, a number of marketers have ended promotions linked to the N.R.A. But it’s unclear whether boycotts have a lasting impact.
Within hours of announcing its decision to end a credit card relationship with the National Rifle Association, the First National Bank of Omaha found itself thrust into the center of the resurgent national gun debate.
Its Twitter and Facebook pages were flooded with comments. Some customers applauded the 160-year-old bank’s decision. Others said they would take their business elsewhere.
In the aftermath of the deadly school shooting in Florida last week, businesses were making the same financial and moral calculus, quickly discovering that there is no neutral ground. As pressure mounted across various social media platforms on Friday, a number of corporations, including several car-rental companies, MetLife insurance and Symantec security software, abruptly announced plans to cut ties with the organization.
Over the last couple of years, social media has become the preferred vehicle for the rise of consumer activism, turning the everyday purchase of dresses or shoes or, now, renting a car or buying insurance, into a form of protest or demonstration of ideology.
“MetLife didn’t shoot anyone, but I just can’t pay them,” Clark Bacon, a research assistant at a children’s hospital, said in an interview Friday morning, after posting about his frustration on the company’s Facebook page. He had pledged to cancel his MetLife auto and home insurance package, for which he spends nearly $9,000 a year, after learning that the company offered N.R.A. members pre-negotiated discounts…
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“This is a good sign. It looks like the NRA is finding out that people are disgusted enough to walk with their pocketbooks. ”
Hatred doesn’t sell well with business owners. Selling fear works well, but not hatred, and Dana Loesch is a hater. There is nothing charming about her. NRA needs a Charlton Heston replacement.
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Is the Armed Teacher ‘Debate’ America’s Lowest, Stupidest Media Moment?..AlterNet
A commenter named Jack Strawb made this observation. Thought it was worth posting.
Trump suggested Wednesday that at least 20 percent of teachers should get special weapons training so they can include “shoots to kill” under the “special skills” section of their resumes. He also said teachers should be given a “bonus” of 10 to 40 percent to carry guns because, per the president, “I want my schools protected just like I want my banks protected.”
So this time it’s 20% of teachers, which means 640,000 full-time teachers.
An average of 25% of their salaries in the form of bonuses, when their salaries average around $50,000, is $12,500.
640,000 teachers getting an extra $12,500 each year is $8 billion each year in extra pay to arm 20% of U.S. teachers, at a time when Betsy DeVos already wants to cut $7.1 billion from public school education. Charming.
The short form is we don’t have $7.1 billion for schools even in the sad shape they’re already in, but we’re going to somehow raise $8 billion to arm teachers.
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“The short form is we don’t have $7.1 billion for schools even in the sad shape they’re already in, but we’re going to somehow raise $8 billion to arm teachers.”
These arguments just buy into the Trumpian “arm the teachers and turn schools into bunkers” agenda, not to mention that fact for this, they will easily find the money.
Let’s not examine Trump’s and the NRA arguments from an economic or business viewpoint. Let’s use our own viewpoint and our own language, and dismiss the very basis of the Trumpian proposal without addressing it in any way.
Do we think about costs when we ponder about mass shootings and civilian disarmament? If not, why get into any discussion about money? Is money our territory? Are complicated political and economic considerations our territory? Aren’t we teachers who are masters of simple, clear explanations so that even little kids can understand us?
Let’s not forget that moneymen cannot propose anything which is not a good business for them or their friends. That’s how the world works for them. So if we believe an issue has nothing to do with money, we can and should dismiss their proposal.
We want to fight on our turf, not theirs.
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I find it very telling that Trump thinks a bonus will get enough teachers rushing to arm themselves for “active” duty.
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“I find it very telling that Trump thinks a bonus will get enough teachers rushing to arm themselves for “active” duty. ”
So you do not think, there will be teachers in every school who would use the opportunity? We are talking about 20% raises!
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I don’t remember ever signing up to be cannon fodder. I find it hard to believe that there are many teachers who aren’t living out Rambo fantasies who would sign on now. Practically speaking, what insurance company is going to offer medical, life, or liability insurance to a teacher who signs up to be a first responder in an active shooter event? Does anyone honestly believe that the security guard(s) were paid/insured well enough to confront a shooter with an AR-15? Were they trained to respond as a SWAT team? I believe I recently read that SWAT members accept that they may lose one or more members. When all a shooter has to do is point and sweep his weapon while firing in the general direction of potential targets, intended or otherwise, taking down this joker is going to take more than a few willing martyrs.
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“taking down this joker is going to take more than a few willing martyrs.”
I am thinking, it may be a good idea to talk about not the gunmen but the guns. After all, it’s the AR 15 that does the damage—the gunman adds very little skill to what the gun has.
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“I am thinking, it may be a good idea to talk about not the gunmen but the guns. After all, it’s the AR 15 that does the damage—the gunman adds very little skill to what the gun has.”
Exactly my point. I can’t fault the security guard(s) for not entering the school. Not only would they have been vastly outgunned but they very likely would have added to the carnage of innocent victims if they lived long enough to get more than a few shots off. There is absolutely no reason to allow the public sale of military type assault weapons and munitions.
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speduktr: Remember Trump says to give teachers who sign up a SMALL bonus. He obviously thinks we are stupid and would gleefully do anything to make more money. He probably would do anything except [Cadet Bonespurs] fight.
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Us oldies remember the Vietnam war protests. It’s inspiring to watch a video that has cuts from scenes of youngsters getting involved in stopping mass killings.Let’s hope these youngsters have as big an impact.
Dems need to get some backbone and also not be bought out. Forget states determining gun laws. We need a national law that has some teeth. Why should the lives of children and adults be sacrificed so that gun toting lovers can purchase more and more and more guns? The main problem is the number of guns and no control over who buys them. The NRA is a terrorist organization that creates fear and buys out Congress and has bought out our Orange IDIOT. There is NO justification for allowing people to be mass murdered.
[You can click and get the video without being a subscriber.]
What Makes #NeverAgain Different?
VideoVIDEO: What Makes #NeverAgain Different?…NYT
By NEETI UPADHYE
The protests calling for stricter gun control measures come on the heels of other youth movements, but the momentum they have gained makes them stand out.
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Here is a AR-57 owner with some common sense.
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After Parkland Shooting, A Florida Gun Owner Gives Up His AR-57
…On the issue of obtaining a concealed carry/weapon permit
The concealed weapons permit program here in the state of Florida, as far as I’m concerned, is a joke. Literally, it’s three hours of PowerPoint, and then you go down to the range with a very, very low caliber handgun, and you have to put five out of 10 rounds on a paper plate at 5 feet. Probably half the class that I had are people that had never touched a gun before in their life.
On the challenge to give up his AR-57
After Las Vegas, I had thought long and hard about it, and thought, well, you know, it’s not hurting anything sitting in my gun safe here. But it wasn’t really until this last tragedy at Stoneman Douglas where it really hit home with us – and me.
Actually, one of my friends on Facebook rather sarcastically said, well, if you really feel this way, why don’t you go turn in your gun at Broward Sheriff’s Office? I’ll even drive you. And that’s what spurred me to think. Even though he was being extremely sarcastic about it because he’s a very staunch conservative, gun rights activist person, it kind of spurred me to say, you know what? Yeah, I’ll do that…
https://www.npr.org/player/embed/586825434/586825435
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