Tulsa has trouble finding and retaining teachers. It may be due to the fact that Oklahoma has low teacher pay, perhaps the lowest in the country.
The district is responding to the teacher shortage by creating its own TFA-style teacher-training program, with five weeks of preparation for people with a bachelor’s degree. In only five weeks, candidates will be able to step in as teachers of elementary and secondary schools, as well as special education classes.
The program has applied for but not yet been approved by the state.
It is a nail in the coffin of the teaching profession, as is TFA. If people can become full-fledged teachers in five weeks, then teaching is not a profession. How would the people of Oklahoma feel about qualifying their doctors, lawyers, and accountants with a five-week training program?
The superintendent of the Tulsa city public schools is Deborah Gist, who previously achieved a level of national notoriety when she was State Commissioner of Education in Rhode Island. In 2010, Gist backed up the local superintendent in impoverished Central Falls when she threatened to fire every member of the staff of Central Falls High School because of low test scores (including the lunch room staff and the custodians). That event coincided with the release of “Waiting for Superman” and the Gates-driven movement to blame all the ills of urban education on “bad teachers.” Gist, like Rhee, enjoyed a measure of fame for her “get Tough” attitude toward teachers.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
This is a “five-week training program over the summer and will include coaching from district teacher coaches throughout the year.”
RE: On the job training from district teachers: Will these teachers be compensated for their work as “coaches” ? Will the five-week wonders pay for their training or not?
Over time, I have reached the point where I no longer wonder at how low the corporate education reform crowd will set standards and qualifications when it involves OTHER PEOPLE’S CHILDREN.
Of course, when it comes to providing a genuine teaching and learning environment for THEIR OWN CHILDREN…
Thank for zeroing in on that.
😎
Nobody says it better than Don Wlliams:
you know I ain’t no fool and I don’t need no more schoolin’
I was born to just walk the line
Livin on Tulsa time
Livin’ on Tulsa time
Well, you know I’ve been through it
When I set my watch back to it
Livin’ on Tulsa time
Good ol Don Williams. Not many would recognize him as he’s been more on the fringes of country music over the years.
If country music is the topic, I’d like to refer to this pop song because I like the lyrics:
Always be humble and kind.
Tis a good one, eh!
It’s so strange when you think about it.
People who are supposedly passionate about education consistently devalue education and experience.
Ed reformers believe that people who have worked for years at a job learn absolutely nothing- that a 5 week trainee is equivalent to a 10 year veteran.
Why bother studying anything, or sticking with anything? The theory here is that education and experience add NO value?
In what other sector is this nonsense accepted as fact? Do they accept this about their own work? That they have learned absolutely nothing since the day they started? of course not. So why do they apply that to teachers?
I do think there is lore –wisdom — about teaching that can be transmitted. Unfortunately I think that many ed school professors –often failed teachers themselves –substitute wishful thinking and pet ideology for truly wise lore. I would love to see a Reformation of the ed schools –e.g. a requirement that 1/2 the faculty be Teachers of the Year with more than 15 years of experience.
I used to joke that everyone believes they would be a great teacher because everyone has been to school. It’s true too- when you talk to critics of public schools it’s always people who think it’s easy, that they would be great at it.
Ed reform adopted that attitude as policy and they’re taken seriously. Incredibly.
Just as an aside, it was absolutely predictable that teachers salaries would fall under ed reform.
It was and is textbook low wage policy. It’s not a coincidence that ed reform always comes with funding cuts. This is an ideology dressed up as science.
Cheaper. That’s what this is about.
The first thing I thought after reading this blog is there has to be something more to why teachers can’t be retained other than lack of income. Everybody who is an educator knows that the job doesn’t come with the best salary. Many educators teach out of their joy for working with kids and teach because it’s their passion. In many cases, retention rates from teachers usually drop because of one of two reasons; the kids or the administration. I did some research and according to city-data.com, 61% of the population falls below the poverty level. 87% of the population are non-family homes and unemployment is at 8%. With these numbers, my prediction for low test scores and low retention rates is not because of pay or lack of knowledge of teachers, but rather because of the high-poverty that exists in Tulsa, Ok. With that being said, the TFA Program would more than likely fail because one, you don’t become a teacher in just 5 weeks. Secondly, the poverty rates aren’t going to change. Rather than the district worrying about teacher-retention, it needs to be focusing on ways to decrease the poverty rates and doing more for the community and the households of the students who attend these schools. There needs to be more parent-involvement and a stricter enforcement on literacy. Without literacy, nothing else matters in school.
I doubt poverty is a main issue here. Poverty rates aren’t increasing in Tulsa any more than they are anywhere else.
What’s changed to create such a teacher shortage is, in a word, education “reform”. Teachers are devalued and denied autonomy. They are evaluated by their students’ test scores. These scores dominate every aspect of “education” these days, shutting out opportunities for arts, history, vocational ed, civics, science, or even meaningful teaching within the tested subjects. Everything boils down to improving scores on the Big Standardized Tests (BS Test, h/t Peter Greene). Who would want to work in such a punishing, soulless environment? The only people many schools can find these days are wet-behind-the-ears idealistic kids fresh out of college who are still inexperienced enough to swallow the rephormers’ hype.
I also remember a link or two reporting on Oklahoma teachers just not being able to support their families. I believe one was featured who finally gave up and moved to Texas where s/he could earn $20.000+(?) more.
I don’t think that the NYC Teaching Fellows, which puts teachers in classrooms after 5 weeks of preservice training, is a nail in the coffin of the profession, and I can think of many traditionally prepared NYC DOE teachers who would agree. The program has produced numerous great teachers, including José Vilson.
https://nycteachingfellows.org
Again, there is precious little evidence that traditionally prepared teachers are superior to alternatively prepared ones, and some evidence that alternative programs help increase the ranks of minority teachers—a vital goal in urban districts.
Hi Diane, Education is what your blog is about and I thank you for this. And thus I bring to your attention a need for education regarding HB 38 “Concealed Carry Reciprocity” bill. This bill, now in the Senate, will if law mandate all states to allow concealed guns into all cities and towns in the nation. Imagine the gun violence disasters that could occur in parking lots, arenas, churches and even schools. This potential dangerous way of life is fully endorsed by many legislators with little to no public understanding of what vould occur. Please Diane dedicate a blog piece to the awful potential. Please take on the NRA and it’s attempt to bring about violence on a daily basis. Plesse advise school superintendents to express opposition to the bill. Thank you Diane, Bill Murphy Sent from my iPhone
An inconvenient truth: high-poverty schools drive off teachers because the behavior problems are intense. Why do so few TFA-ers stick with teaching after 2 years if it’s such a rewarding job? I’m sure student behavior is a big factor (though rarely admitted because it’s taboo to insinuate that kids are anything other than victimized innocents). Do we want to face the truth?
I realize there are teachers like Lloyd who feel they got something valuable from their teacher training programs. I did not. In fact, I’ve come to believe my training was mostly downright misleading and harmful. I believe I would have been better off if I’d been taught for five weeks by master teachers, as the Tulsa program envisions. My own ed school professors were a mix of hacks, failed K-12 teachers, out-of-touch PC ideologues and a couple earnest scholars. We were taught false ideas about pedagogy and learning. The most valuable hour of the program was when a practicing local HS chemistry teacher lectured us on her classroom management methods. Unless I see evidence that most ed schools are much better than mine, I cannot mourn their fall, even if it means swelling the labor supply and depressing of wages. It seems to me they purvey a false and harmful dogma: that knowledge barely matters. That skill and process is all. That punishment is evil. This is leading to mass ignorance, the erosion of our democracy, utterly joyless skill-based, empty lessons, and too often, chaotic classrooms.
Basically what I hear you saying is that you don’t know how to dominate those rowdy kids and they piss you off, so you assume every teacher has the same problem.
Dienne, I have fewer problems than most of my colleagues at my school. I infer from this –and honest discussion with teachers at many other schools — that the difficulty is universal, and more extreme at high-poverty schools. Does my reasoning not make sense?
Caveat: this is middle school –notoriously more difficult than elementary or HS –not that those are cakewalks.
I think you are right about behavioral problems driving off teachers.
But i see that as simply one part of the overall lack of respect given teachers by not just students, but by administrators, parents and particularly know-nothing politicians (forgive the redumbdancy)
It’s hard to keep doing a difficult job day after day when everyone is telling you “you suck”, constantly making you do idiotic things and giving you no support and very little money to accomplish your task.
This was actually the main reason I left teaching — and I was actually teaching before NCLB, Common Core and the current test insanity that have flooded our schools.
I can’t imagine putting up with the lack of respect AND all the other garbage that has been heaped on teachers over the past two decades.
Incidentally, I had what i thought was very useful teacher prep program. But I honestly have no idea how other programs compare.
I also think lack of autonomy, micromanagement of teachers, repetitive job assignments, unfair evaluation systems, and useless and frequent meetings are the kiss of death for many teachers.
I think it all falls neatly under the umbrella “lack of respect”.
The main difference in places like Finland is that teachers are respected. Everything else follows from that one basic principle.
Poet, I agree that there’s widespread disrespect for teachers. I think many liberals (e.g. CAP and Obama) hold a stereotype of a borderline-racist, white, lower-tier university graduate who doesn’t deserve much respect, especially from minority kids who, they imagine, are victims of such teachers’ hostile vibes. Such liberals almost relish hearing about kids rebelling against the teacher. In their minds, it seems a sort of reparation for historical injustices against minorities. Then there’s the conservatives who hold the stereotype of teachers as little more than PC propagandists, part of a big conspiracy to denigrate whites, Western Civ, America, Christian and traditional values. On top of this is the old American tradition of anti-intellectualism that Richard Hoffstadter described.
That said, I think much of the bad behavior at schools could be stemmed if schools had more daunting punishments at hand. Most of the kids’ misbehavior is totally voluntary and gratuitous. They know they’re being bad –they admit it –just ask them. When you ask what could fix it, they say steeper consequences. But the adults are too squeamish to administer them. This is bad…for kids.
You’re advocating corporal punishment, aren’t you? Is that really what you think education schools should be teaching? How to properly administer “daunting” punishments?
If you’re not actually in favor of teachers hitting students, what kinds of punishments are you talking about?
@Ponderosa….I think of middle school as a holding area for tweens/teens. I don’t think much book learning gets done in middle school. These are the hormonal years and the kids are just crazy any way, but then tack on the boredom of Common Chore and the non stop testing, and the lack of movement (no PE, no recess, few RA’s) and it’s a recipe for disaster. Good middle school teachers have to be really savvy and I think this is where it’s best to have male teachers in the classrooms.
Ponderosa, how many years have you been teaching?
I’m thinking too many.
It’s a negative feedback loop, amplified by the ideology and tactics of so-called reform.
So-called reformers ignorantly and/or dishonestly equate test scores with education. However, test scores correlate with income, so schools with large numbers of poor children do poorly on the tests, which means they’re “failing,” which means they must subjected to successive waves of punitive mandates presented as miracle cures, which invariably fail.
Let’s qualify that: they fail in pedagogical or human terms, but they succeed wonderfully in degrading the public schools, demoralizing teachers and driving them out of the system, while providing a generous income to a whole toxic sub-culture of snake oil salespeople, many of them with fancy credentials, but not a day of classroom teaching experience.
Along with the punitive mandates come the martinet administrators, who are sent in to discipline and intimidate the teachers, leading to high turnover, leading to the “need’ to hire McTeachers…
Ponderosa: I feel much of what you say in the various posts here has merit. Teaching children who have never been taught to respect the educational process is daunting. Whether training one way or another, whether using one method or another, all of this goes by the way when that student walks into your class who has the ability to transform the whole class by his behavior. None of us is ever completely successful in that setting.
This lies at the base of why schools have a hard time with kids from poverty situations. Many of them have no parents to hover about and teach them proper behavior. Many of the parents are working three jobs to make one salary. I have some positive suggestions.
Schools where poverty is a dominant problem should be funded so that teachers never face classes exceeding 20 students at a high school level and 14 at an elementary level. Small classes can tolerate many more behavioral tics without resorting to an authoritarian attitude that can alienate the student.
New teachers should ease into these situations, apprenticeship status should last for a long time.
Students who are really distant from the behaviors necessary for a traditional class should be placed in places where they can learn these behaviors, using humane treatment rather than draconian punishments.
It is unfortunate that all of these solutions are expensive. More teachers to hire in a good economy. Bigger buildings with programs that are costly. But do we not owe our children some hope?
Roy, I think your suggestions for high-poverty schools are good and would help. But the students I’m thinking of are not the stereotypical alienated, traumatized, low-income, at-rish kids (though setting firm boundaries would probably be beneficial for many of these kids too). I’m talking mainly about middle class white kids who are just being jerks. Let’s quit the sanctimony. I adore many of my students, and 6 out of my 7 classes are quite agreeable, if sometimes too boisterous. But one class is filled with mean turds who, in addition to disrupting class and showing disrespect to me and the learning process, delight in needling and baiting the lone Aspberger’s boy in class. I’ll admit I don’t adore a lot of those kids, and at times I wish upon them the stern justice they deserve (not corporal punishment –but thanks for that charitable guess, icompleat/Randall). The sternest punishment we can give is a one-hour detention, and I find the threat of that really sobers up a lot of these kids. And, unlike a lot of my colleagues, I do not hesitate or feel guilty or like a “bad teacher” if I do make that threat. It works, and so I’ll use it. Ed schools have brainwashed us to believe that punishment is ineffective and morally repugnant, and I think that’s a pity. Punishment, administered justly and for good ends (e.g. stopping bullying and preserving the educational process) is NOTHING to be ashamed of. It is an instrument of justice and a mode of teaching morality. Let’s punish the Harvey Weinsteins and Donald Trumps of the world, and let’s punish the kids who choose to give free rein to their sadistic and anti-social impulses at school. Let’s punish the kids who scrawl big swastika on the wall and taunt Muslim students. One of my favorite year-end notes from a meek student was, “Thank you for giving detentions so we could learn.” Why are we so squeamish about punishment? Punishment deters bad behavior and brings justice to the world. I know I’m triggering all sorts of red alerts by using the word “punishment” –we’re not allowed to use that vis a vis students anymore. “Consequences” is the acceptable euphemism, but I’m with George Orwell on this: let’s be honest with our language. Are we incapable of distinguishing between just, humane, rational punishment, on the one hand, and abuse on the other?
Yeah, the semantics get in the way. Detention for a student who steals time from the class seems like a reasonable and natural “consequence.”
I know people here dislike Bill Gates’ forays into education, but Gates moves further and further away from the ed reform chorus with each passing year:
Gates Foundation focus on poverty is “bigger, more expensive and politically stickier area to attack than simply changing the structure of schools”
They’re changing their focus – less on schools and more on underlying issues of poverty.
Which is exactly what you guys have been saying all along 🙂
Hi Everyone,
I’m a Board member in CA.
Like many districts, mine is concerned about a possible teacher shortage in the near future.
Do any of you have, or know of, programs where districts are “growing their own”, as in, supporting and encouraging their HS students to come back and teach for them, possibly with scholarship $ for undergrad & credential programs?
Has anyone tried this, and did it work?
Thanks!
The University of Northern Colorado in Greeley is trying a “grow your own” program for “urban” (code for high poverty, black and brown students) education, teamed with Aurora, Colorado. Maybe check with the UNC school of education and see how it’s working. It’s a pretty new program, so they may not have much information on how it’s going.
Also this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/with-state-budget-in-crisis-many-oklahoma-schools-hold-classes-four-days-a-week/2017/05/27/24f73288-3cb8-11e7-8854-21f359183e8c_story.html?utm_term=.1d716f20b05e
I mentioned this one a recent post. It sure bears repeating when it comes to the sheer idiocy that the edudeformers continually rehash. From Charles Pierce’s “Idiot America” “There is nothing more worthless to the cultural imagination than a persistently wrong idea that succeeds despite itself”.
Is there any doubt as to the idiocy of this persistently wrong idea that anyone can teach.
I am not familiar with Oklahoma’s tax rates, but I assume they pay very little. If you want highly skilled teachers and no teacher shortage, you have to raise revenue to pay teachers. Higher wages, higher taxes, better schools, better state. (And the argument floating around that higher wages increases inflation is a twisted falsehood put forth by selfish, corporate executives). Don’t degrade your state with alternative credential schemes! Pay workers and pay taxes, Oklahoma.
With the “anyone can teach” theory which has taken over legislative logic, believing in a need for HIGHLY SKILLED teachers flies out the window.
Focusing on teachers is a great decision. However we need to focus on teacher working conditions and how we can attract, support, and retain quality teachers.
Be assured Oklahoma, you are not the only state experiencing a teacher shortage. North Carolina and Georgia examined the issue. I propose that we support teachers so they can spend less time on red tape and more on teaching and learning. In sum, I figure that if we build it then they will come. Let’s build the conditions that are conducive to quality learning conditions.
#TeachersInTouch #ALLIn4Teachers #SoTeachersCanTeach
Reblogged this on David R. Taylor-Thoughts on Education.
State Superintendent of Public Instruction Joy Hofmeister made the following remarks this evening following the failure of House Bill 1033, a revenue package that would have funded a $5,000 teacher pay raise, to pass the state House of Representatives. The measure fell short of the required three-fourths “supermajority” for revenue bills.
http://www.claremoreprogress.com/opinion/hofmeister-calls-failure-of-hb-soul-crushing-blow-for-oklahoma/article_b4c18180-110f-11e8-87ad-976f69ff0a2e.html
I have heard of other districts/states doing this same thing and have be baffled by it. I am an educator and went through 5 years of college and am currently working on my masters. I find it difficult to believe that just anyone with a degree, no matter what kind of degree, can take a five week course and become an effective educator! It is so much more than that. All of the teachers I know do not do it for the money (obviously), they do it because they have a passion for teaching students to read and write. They have a passion for helping students grow up and be successful, productive members of society and they knew this is what they wanted when they decided on their life path. A teacher is a teacher and that that is what he/she went to college and studied, to be the best they could be. An accountant is an accountant, not a teacher. A dentist is a dentist, not a teacher. I cannot go to some training for 5 weeks and become either one of those things. No one can learn in 5 weeks what I learned in my last 2 years as an education student.
Since my last day’s comment has been moderated out, trying for the second time. Just wanted to say this particular case is not about diluting teaching as profession, it is about Oklahoma being broke as a state, as a result of non-sensical tax policies and the state senate basically being in the pocket of extracting industries.
” They have a passion for helping students grow up and be successful, productive members of society and they knew this is what they wanted when they decided on their life path. ” This hits the point straight away. Commitment to a field of study makes the individual focus on it. Otherwise, it is an afterthought. Now to make teacher education more than just the preparation of an individual for topic delivery.
Diane said “It is a nail in the coffin of the teaching profession, as is TFA.”
I think it might be a nail in the coffin of TFA as well. If states start doing it for themselves then no-one needs TFA and TFA will die (or change focus). But if they change focus what would be the point of their existence?
Good point. If districts create five-Week courses, who needs TFA? But you overlook the other TFA benefits: the connections to Wall Street firms and banks, the link to a new career, the plus on the resume, the networking.
What you’re describing is in the normal range of middle school behavior. And some classes are way more difficult than others. Some kids are, too. If you’ve taught ten years or more, you should already have figured that out. The luck of the draw is part of being a teacher. Yes, teaching is difficult. Classroom management can be a challenge. Some classes are a lot better than others. This is normal.
While there’s nothing wrong with giving out detentions, I don’t see how “daunting punishments” would be a surefire solution to your stated problem, especially since you haven’t specified what a daunting punishment might look like. Unless you’re more clear about what you mean, the sweeping claims don’t amount to much. Even then, sweeping claims based on sweeping claims are sketchy no matter what.
Maybe you’re right, though. If everyone thought and taught exactly the way you want to, all our problems would be solved. Ignorance and misbehavior would disappear. The reason this can’t actually be true is this thing called human nature. And real life.
Beyond that, diversity of opinion has been proven to be a good thing, especially in a democratic society. It’s actually part of the definition of a democratic society. Your stance that you’re right and the bulk of other teachers are wrong is absurd on its face.
This is in answer to Ponderosa above. As long as you mentioned me by name…