I seem to get an unusual number of contacts from people who have left teaching at Success Academy; recently I had a long meeting with someone working at the central headquarters of SA. Everyone wants to clear his/her conscience. I tell them to write it down. Not everyone does. This teacher did.
Why I Left Success Academy
I recently resigned from my teaching position at Success Academy after over a year with the large New York City charter school network. My reason for leaving was twofold: the environment was toxic for children, and, in turn, employees.
As I look back, my biggest regret is not trusting my gut and leaving in the first month.
Upon hire, I was placed in an Assistant Teacher role in a classroom at one of the Success Academy (“SA”) elementary school locations. The teacher I was placed with, a woman who I will call Ms. X, was lauded as having a strong command of the SA teaching model. From the first day that our young scholars arrived, her style was rigid and militaristic. I recognize that every teacher has her own style, and that having order in a classroom is of utmost importance, but I quickly began to feel uneasy with her approach to behavior management and instruction. Multiple children would cry daily because their academic performance was not up to her standards. Corrections and time outs were given for the inability to solve problems the “correct” way. The barking at and scolding of these six and seven year-old children was constant.
Ms. X would refer to certain students as “stupid” during teacher meetings. There was one particular child for which she had little patience. After I felt she was physically rough with this child, I confided in another teacher at the school. This teacher conveyed the incident to the Principal. The Principal immediately met with me. Rather than concern, she expressed frustration at the fact that I had talked to another teacher about the incident. The Principal appeared agitated as she stated she would have to investigate this issue. Despite stating she would investigate, she asked me no questions about the incident. Within a few weeks of this incident, I was moved to another classroom within the school. Nothing came of that incident; I am quite sure it was never mentioned again after that day. I note that Ms. X was promoted in 2015.
The classroom I was moved into was led by Mr. Z. This classroom was a joyous one, and I built strong relationships with the children and parents. Despite the fact that the classroom was joy-filled and the children learned, the leadership team frowned upon Mr. Z’s teaching practice. It was clear that Mr. Z loved children and wanted them to succeed, but he did not fit the SA mold; that rigid, behavior management style where children must sit perfectly straight with locked hands every minute. Mr. Z stayed until the end of the school year, and then found employment at another school.
I did not get to stay with that classroom. In February, the Principal told me she had an “opportunity” for me to help out at another SA location, a struggling school in our Network. I was advised by other teachers that when leadership presents you with such an “opportunity,” you do not say no, as you will be viewed as uncooperative; that this was not an option, but a must.
Thus, in mid-February of 2015, I began teaching fourth grade scholars at another SA location. This particular SA location had gained notoriety throughout the Network for its “unruly” children. Nonetheless, I felt optimistic about having my own classroom; I had received little feedback about my teaching at the first SA location, but had led my second classroom on my own plenty of times and, when I did receive feedback, it was positive.
After seven days of teaching fourth grade, the Principal stated she was concerned about management and moved me out of the position. She had never once observed me teach. I was the fourth teacher to fill that position during the school year. I was left bewildered as to what had gone wrong; I had barely been observed by the Dean, who seemed too “busy” to be bothered, and was given little instruction as to what their vision was for the class.
Thereafter, I became a science teacher for scholars in kindergarten and first grade. Some of the children were labeled as what the Network refers to “BBGLs”: Behavior Below Grade Level scholars, meaning their behavior was an issue. Indeed, there were some concerning behavior issues at the school: children pushing over or throwing desks and chairs, biting teachers, and running out of classrooms. I taught science class alone and often found certain scholars unmanageable. When I asked for support from the Dean, she did not answer calls or texts.
The Dean would intermittently and inconsistently suspend children. Sometimes, if a child ran out of a classroom, he or she would be suspended. But other children were consistently suspended. I could not discern any rhyme or reason to the suspensions. One of my kindergarten scholars, “M”, was suspended constantly, almost every other day of school at times. M’s father had passed away earlier in the year, and he clearly was not dealing well with this change. I do not know how M’s single, working mother, who had other children, dealt with her child being out of school every other day.
I built strong relationships with many of my science students, and they performed well on their science assessments. As a whole, however, my time at this second SA school was difficult and confusing. I and many other teachers felt frustrated and unsupported. During the time I was there, I watched as teachers were mysteriously fired or demoted.
At the end of the year, I was advised by head of Human Resources, Andrew Lauck, that I would be teaching at another SA location in the fall. I was not told there was any particular reason for this move, just that I would be teaching at another location. I had met with Mr. Lauck twice in the preceding year to discuss my trajectory, and at our last meeting in February we had discussed me being a lead teacher in my own classroom for the 2015-2016 academic year.
In the first week of June of 2015, I set up a visit to the new SA location at which I would be teaching in the fall. I met and had a brief, albeit bizarre, conversation with the Principal, during which time she discussed the culture of her school as one where behavior management is a non-issue. I felt unwelcome and uncomfortable during my first meeting with her.
In mid-June, this Principal (Principal “Y”) had the Network reach out to me and ask if I would fill a non-teaching (data management) position. I was confused, as teaching experience was a necessity in my career trajectory. I fearfully declined the position, and reached out to Principal Y for clarification on why she wanted me to move into a non-teaching position. After attempting to contact her three times without response, I gave up.
On August 17, 2015, I began teaching an ICT (Integrated Co-Teaching) class with a co-teacher at Principal Y’s school. Essentially, about 40% of my children had individualized education plans, and are educated with peers in a general education classroom setting. From the first day, I knew I had a great group of children, and was enjoying teaching and getting to know each of them with my co-teacher.
On August 25, after seven school days, I was brought to a meeting with the Principal and the Vice Principal. At this time, Principal stated that I had the “lowest performing classroom” in the school, which consists of approximately 600 students. Notably, the children had not taken a single assessment, and I had been observed briefly on two occasions. Their “low performance” was based not on academics, but on their posture and my “scanning and noticing” as to whether their hands were locked, eyes were tracking, and backs were straight at all times. I was told by Principal Y that the bar was set too low in my classroom; that I was an ineffective teacher; and that I had no passion for teaching and should have taken the data management position she recommended in June. I knew better than to ask questions or try to refute their statements, because I would be labeled “difficult” or unwilling to receive feedback. I was, frankly, worried about losing my job. I informed her that I would like to continue teaching, as I knew I could “turn around” my classroom. I left the meeting with no tangible advice or next steps.
Immediately following the meeting, I received an email from Mr. Lauck asking whether I would like to reconsider the data management position. It became clear to me at that time that Principal Y and Mr. Lauck were trying to push me into a non-teaching position because I did not fit the SA mold, one in which children are expected to have locked hands and straight backs all day.
Notably, the first suspension in my class had also occurred on August 25. One of my scholars, a BBGL, was suspended for “violent behavior by balling his fists up and throwing his papers on the floor.” This decision was made by the Dean, and was one with which I did not feel comfortable. This scholar was subsequently suspended again on September 29 for kicking another scholar. I met with the Dean multiple times regarding this scholar; multiple times she stated that “Success Academy is not for everyone.”
Three other suspensions occurred in my class. One of my special education students was suspended twice. On the first occasion, September 23, he was found being disruptive in the bathroom. His disruptive behavior occurred frequently; he was hyperactive and it was nearly impossible for him to sit still during a lesson, let alone lock his hands. As a result, he racked up corrections and became frustrated daily. It was a Catch 22: if I did not give him corrections, I would be deemed ineffective; if I did, the child became frustrated. So, on that particular day, he was brought to the Dean. When he went to the Dean, he allegedly refused to speak to her. On September 23, he was suspended for “Repeatedly refusing to respond when addressed by leadership.”
In the following weeks, Principal Y scolded my grade team for the amount of suspensions that were occurring. Clearly, there was the overarching concern of increasing the school’s suspension data. Like academic data, the suspension data of each school is tracked by the Network, and schools are ranked against one another. Leaders feared being reprimanded about their suspension data.
In October, leadership began to observe in our classrooms daily. No feedback was given during these visits. The grade team felt tense and nervous; it was not made clear to teachers why leadership was present in rooms daily. Principal Y would enter the classroom, scowling, and said very little. When she did speak, she seemed irritated with children and teachers alike. We had daily team meetings during one of our two prep periods about “pressing” the children.
The environment was toxic. Between September and October, teachers quit, were fired, and were hired. Teachers were moved around classrooms as the staff continued to change. Colleagues wondered why leadership was observing in classrooms daily, and whether they were going to be fired. Teachers would hide in the bathroom and cry; leadership found it funny to say “keep the crying to yourself” or “go cry in the bathroom.”
This environment is challenging for both new and veteran teachers at Success Academy. The time constraints of having only one forty-minute prep during a school day that exceeds nine hours, followed by staying late hours after children were dismissed, led to frustrated teachers that worked late nights and weekends. Teachers’ responsibilities are constantly increased. Additionally, teachers felt nervous and tense with constant observations and negative feedback. Teachers were hanging on by a thread, to say the least.
At SA, there is an emphasis on question-based learning and avoiding direct instruction; direct instruction is indeed a huge “no-no” that will get you in big trouble as an SA teacher (drone?). That said, on the day or days before an internal assessment, teachers will clear schedules to make time to prep for what will be tested on the upcoming assessment. That means drilling students on problems and concepts that will be tested on the assessment. Internal assessments are almost every week; so a large portion of at least one day a week is spent drilling on standards that will be on an upcoming assessment. SA teachers do teach/focus on what will be on the exam. As for state test preparation, that is all testing grade students do come February: prepare for the tests. The entire day is spent on practice tests and questions, and reviewing same. The only breaks are for lunch, recess, and reward/incentive time for students who perform well. Students who do not perform well are corralled into groups to be reprimanded and to re-take their assessments. Teachers are required to come in on certain Saturdays for test prep during this “test prep season,” which lasts for months (February through mid-April).
I knew that this organization was taking advantage of teachers. It became difficult for me to put on the show every day; to act like I was 100% behind their system. I never stopped working hard, but my morale plummeted. While I believed in, and still believe in, Success Academy’s mission of giving children an excellent public education, I could not support their drastic behavioral expectations and discipline policies for children, as well as the way they exploit and demoralize teachers.
I believe my low morale was noticed, and in November, I received a new wave of negative feedback around my “body language.” Leadership claimed I had negative body language not while I was teaching, but while I observed others teaching. I knew that I would never be able to fit the SA mold and could no longer fake agreement with their policies; that they wanted me out; and that they would continue to think of ways to break down my morale. So, I left.
I feel sad that I’ve left the kids and their families. I loved my kids and all of their unique personalities. It thrilled me to watch them learn and grow. I had good relationships with many of their parents, and I feel as though I disappointed them and let them down by abandoning them during the school year. But this was a move I had to make. I could no longer take being a cog in the SA machine, perpetuating what I feel is unfair and abusive treatment of children and employees alike.
“unmanageable scholars”, like they leave there research materials strewn about the library and leave. I’m so frustrated I can’t find that historical document from the 17th century, I think I’ll throw this chair.
Reblogged this on David R. Taylor-Thoughts on Education and commented:
What a sad state of affairs!
For the life of me, I have no idea why teachers even bother filling out a resume at Success. Who in their right mind would want to teach in that type of enviornment? The internet is blessing in that the word is now getting out about how horrible these schools are to work in. (And how horrible they are for students)
This is a truly harrowing, haunting account that puts a real human face to what we have known is going on inside the SA network, and likely other “no excuse” charter schools. If I could reach out to this teacher and provide the necessary counseling to heal from this horrible experience, I would. The guilt, shame, bewilderment all come through in the detailed writing, and it seems there was literally no one to reach out to beside the one positive teacher Mr. Z.
John King tweeted this:
“districts can #rethinkdiscipline, reduce suspensions, & raise student achievement at the same time”
The “district” language is… interesting. I hope this doesn’t only apply to “districts”.
“Equity” probably demands they treat all schools the same.
Beware of those who speak with forked tongue
Good one Diane.
HI Chiara,
I found the below discussion helpful in distinguishing between “equality” vs. “equity”:
http://saveseattleschools.blogspot.com/2015/11/equity-vs-equality.html#more
Shameful mistreatment of children by those whose real agenda is maintaining power of the rich and keeping poor children in their place. Charters – especially those like Success Academy – must be held to the same level of transparency is public schools if they are to continue to steal from the public school coffers.
So they are driven by GREED.
I met someone this summer who taught first grade briefly at a charter school in Lowell, MA run by an organization called SABIS which I think runs a number of charters – she quit midway through the first year after the principal told her she needed to spend an hour and a half per day teaching her students how to sit up straight.
“As I look back, my biggest regret is not trusting my gut…”
Many of our problems come from this very fact!
How tragic that they don’t believe in direct instruction….some kids really need this. All kids need it for math and for some grammar and sentence structure lessons.
This was a scary account. My sister in law works for an online charter in CA and they just now got the right to unionize because they kept pushing more administrative duties on to teachers. My anti union brother and sister in law are now pro union.
From what I read, I don’t see how the writer can still assert that SA’s mission is to provide a quality education for children. Its practices don’t support this. The mission is obviously to have high test scores – all the test prep and the obvious attempts to force out difficult students support this. Test prep only narrows curriculum. To me, “quality” would mean working to lessen stress and increase joy – things that are sadly lacking in this system.
I agree
I’m very sorry for this young woman’s Kafkaesque experiences at this hideous charter school franchise. Teachers are no better than indentured servants or replaceable parts in a big impersonal machine. The teachers are not treated as professionals or even as human beings with lives of their own. I must admit that I was annoyed at her use of the word scholar for young kids. They are children not scholars. It’s comparable to Walmart referring to its customers as guests; it’s an abuse of language and a bit bizarre.
Takes a while to completely get over the indoctrination.
“Scholars” are what kids are called in these abusive charter environments, after all. Perhaps if she had put the word in quotes at first use, her intent (serious or cynical) would have been clearer.
WHy do these institutions insist on calling small children “scholars”. It is inappropriate , except in the most antiquated and arcane sense:Obfuscating wordplay is all over the ed reform movement….just what are they trying to hide? Perhaps the fact that their deforms lack any substance or proof that these amount to best practices that will help children.
noun
a specialist in a particular branch of study, esp. the humanities; a distinguished academic : a Hebrew scholar.
• chiefly archaic a person who is highly educated or has an aptitude for study : Mr. Bell declares himself no scholar.
• a student holding a scholarship.
• archaic a student.
Has this writer left the profession or found a better situation for him/herself?
Over the years, I learned that the mental health of an organization can often be traced back to the mental health of its leadership. Now I know for a fact and without doubt that Eva Moskowitz is severely mentally ill. What’s wrong with her goes way beyond just being a psychopath.
Since when are kindergartners and and first grade children labeled as scholars and treated as if they are in a Soviet era Gulag?
Merriam-Webster definition for scholar:
a person who has studied a subject for a long time and knows a lot about it : an intelligent and well-educated person who knows a particular subject very well
From the Urban Dictionary:
A traditional age college student who excels in academia but has no practical, real world skills.
Too bad President Ray-Gun closed all the mental health hospitals. If he hadn’t, maybe Eva would be living in a padded cell.
“THE policy that led to the release of most of the nation’s mentally ill patients from the hospital to the community is now widely regarded as a major failure. Sweeping critiques of the policy, notably the recent report of the American Psychiatric Association, have spread the blame everywhere, faulting politicians, civil libertarian lawyers and psychiatrists.”
http://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/science/how-release-of-mental-patients-began.html?pagewanted=all
What we are constantly learning about Eva’s Suspension Academies is what happens when one of these mentally ill psychopaths is allowed to be in charge of an organization. The tragedy is that her organization works with young children.
What is wrong with the parents of these children?
Moskowitz is not mentally ill – that would reduce her culpability. She may be a psychopath or a sociopath or have some other personality disorder, but none of those are mental illnesses. Calling her mentally ill is demeaning to those who truly do suffer from a mental illness.
Thank you for what I think is a politically correct knee jerk reaction. I disagree. It is arguable that psychopaths are mentally ill just by the definition of what it means to be a psychopath.
There are many different types of mental illnesses and those illness are caused by different things—some are influenced by inherited DNA and others by the environment.
Being a psychopath is just one of the mental illnesses that can be caused by both elements: genetic and/or environment.
For instance, I came back from Vietnam in 1966 with PTSD and I’ve lived with that mental health damage every day of my life since, but I’m not a psychopath. Being mentally ill does not mean being insane or dangerous to society. It is highly arguable that Eva is a danger to society becasue of the way children are OFTEN treated in her Suspension Academies.
From Psychology Today:
“Currently researchers have returned to using the term ‘psychopath.’ Some of them use that term to refer to a more serious disorder, linked to genetic traits, producing more dangerous individuals, while continuing to use ‘sociopath’ to refer to less dangerous people who are seen more as products of their environment, including their upbringing. Other researchers make a distinction between “primary psychopaths,” who are thought to be genetically caused, and “secondary psychopaths,” seen as more a product of their environments.”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mindmelding/201301/what-is-psychopath-0
Psychologists Fritzon and Board, in their study comparing the incidence of personality disorders in business executives against criminals detained in a mental hospital, found that the profiles of senior business managers contained some significant elements of personality disorders, particularly those referred to as the “emotional components” of psychopathy. Robert Hare claims that the prevalence of psychopathic traits is higher in the business world than in the general population, reporting that while about 1% of the general population meet the clinical criteria for psychopathy, figures of around 3-4% have been cited for more senior positions in business.[1][40][41][42]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
It is clear that Eva is a psychopath and she is mentally ill, but that doesn’t mean everyone who is mentally ill is like Eva or a psychopath.
“Politically correct knee jerk reaction”? Whatever. Sometimes you’re difficult to talk to when you react like that to people who disagree with or correct you. Mental illnesses are diagnosed on Axis I – such things as Depression, Bi-Polar and Schizophrenia. They are distinguished from Axis II diagnoses which can include personality disorders and developmental delays, which are not considered mental illnesses per se (although they may be mental disorders). It may seem like a small nit to pick, but legally it has implications. The presence of an Axis I mental illness is generally considered to be a mitigating factor, if not even the basis for legal insanity. Axis II disorders are not generally considered mitigating, especially not personality disorders.
“Sometimes you’re difficult to talk to when you react like that to people who disagree with or correct you.”
You are assuming that your reaction is correct and that everyone else but me will agree with you.
Check the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution for my right to express myself.
I think the evidence strongly supports that Eva Moskowitz is not only a psychopath but she is a mentally ill psychopath like so many others that have been discovered in top management positions. Not all mentally ill people are incapable of functioning. In fact many function in society, hold jobs, and work for decades.
The Top 10 Jobs That Attract Psychopaths.
#1. CEO
#2. Lawyer
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyclay/2013/01/05/the-top-10-jobs-that-attract-psychopaths/
And for those looking to potentially avoid working with the least number of psychopaths, here’s the list of occupations with the lowest rates of psychopathy:
#7. Teacher
Did I say that Eva was insane to the point that she couldn’t function? I’m going to invoke Hitler’s name in this thread. How many people would consider Hitler insane?
How Mad was Hitler?
There is no question that Hitler’s personality exuded pathological narcissism or what I have called psychopathic narcissism (see my prior post), and may have met modern diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder.
Hitler evidently suffered also from severe anxiety. How much of Hitler’s destructive behavior, before and after rising to power, was an obsessive-compulsive defense mechanism against his painful anxiety? One pathological attempt to exert absolute control over the environment and one’s self can be seen in obsessive-compulsive disorder. OCD is, by definition, an anxiety disorder, and can be understood psychologically as an ultimately losing battle for power and control over the inescapable reality of existential anxiety.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/201412/how-mad-was-hitler
Do you remember when Eva demanded an apology from PBS and John Morrow?
I suggest you read this about Eva from the Shanker Institute.
http://www.shankerinstitute.org/blog/student-discipline-race-and-eva-moskowitz%E2%80%99s-success-academy-charter-schools
Boy, I hope I don’t get diagnosed as a psychopath and get barred from being being in charge of an organization!
Not all CEO’s are psychopaths—-I hope. You never know, the CEOS who were not psychos might have been bumped off by those who were.
flerp, you missed the point that the top job that attracts psychopaths is CEO. Apparently, having no regard whatsoever for other people and being willing to sacrifice even the most vulnerable ones to the higher calling of “making a profit” can make your company strong.
Mental illness is NOT the problem here, Lloyd. A lot of us with significant mental illnesses are good and decent people. The stereotype that people with mental illnesses are evil people is horrifying and incredibly frequent.
I agree. I think most of us who deal with a mental illness of any kind are not evil, criminals or psychos. But I think it is arguable that there are a lot of evil psychos who are getting rich working for the corporate public education demolition derby.
I direct everyone’s attention to the above posting. Read it carefully. Slowly. Read again. Then ponder the following observations:
“Leadership is the art of getting someone else to do something you want done because he wants to do it.”
“You don’t lead by hitting people over the head – that’s assault, not leadership.”
“The best morale exist when you never hear the word mentioned. When you hear a lot of talk about it, it’s usually lousy.”
I can feel a disturbance in the Force…
As the typical rheephormista shot caller and enforcer and enabler is thinking now: must be from the “touchy feely” crowd of supporters of the eduction status quo aka those for a “better education for all”—evil, racist, lazy, incompetent—that never did anything, said anything, thought anything, accomplished anything of worth.
Forgetting, as they always do, to never shoot from the lip because a mind in the behind is a terrible thing to waste.
Dwight E. Eisenhower.
‘Nuff said.
😎
“They want OBEDIENT WORKERS. OBEDIENT WORKERS: people who are just smart enough to run machines and do the paperwork and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly [miserable] jobs with with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it,”
~~ George Carlin
What really makes it bizarre (and more than a little funny) is reference to one scholar kicking another.
Here’s a ditty to keep things straight
“Scholars or Scowlers?”
Scholars are to writing
As scowlers are to frighting
Maulers are to fighting
And molars are to biting
Except for being placed there by TFA, or being a novice with less than zero connections and locked out of public schools by politics and TFA contracts, WHY would anyone CHOOSE to teach at success academy? AND THEY ARE CALLED STUDENTS, not and never scholars. Scholars have earned the title. I’m so sick of the B.S.
I’m happy they pushed you out of their charter hell; perhaps now you can teach with passion instead of SA’s desired robotic vigor.
I’ve recently told a story here of a friend’s daughter working in a charter in Newark. When she was moved to its 2nd location, she was carjacked, and that ended her charter career. She hated working the long hours and weekends and attending the nonsensical teacher development workshops that were nothing more than disciplinary in nature, and seeing others who kissed butt move up the chain. It took the carjacking to make the decision for her that it was time to RUN from the toxic environment. She is subbing now and considering a move out of the state.
All I can wonder is….what kind of people STAY at SA and other no excuses charters? They must be despicable, heartless, human beings. I can understand the desperation to find a job and feeling perhaps a charter is a temporary last resort, but to choose to stay takes a certain type of individual, and I don’t like that type terribly much.
SA teachers appear to be brow beaten with low personal morale and I cannot imagine it s anything other than the psychological games that are played out daily between management and staff that former employees would feel as if they disappointed and abandoned their “scholars.” SA employs the same mind game cultish tactics as does TFA, and no surprise, that.
I wish all former SA employees luck and joy in their future endeavors. Those that stay, I wish them a bout of conscience and remorse.
There is a huge difference between consistent discipline and abuse. One can hold children to a high standard without making them feel that they are not worthy human beings. Unless a child is psychotic and cannot respond to to any directions from another person in a reasonable fashion, most children respond to kindness, consistency and an awareness on the part of the teacher of what they are able to do at the time. The folks that run these academies seem to have no child development training, nor any interest inquiring said information. They are also abusive to adults. Who can function positively in a totally negative and neglectful work environment. The hours, are you kidding. Slave wages much?
I taught school for 35 years. I taught in low income neighborhoods where many of the kids had lots of behavioral and academic deficits. Yes it was difficult. I call it controlled chaos. I did well, however, with most of my classes. (I taught music). Positive reinforcement, consistency, and the occasional phone call to a parent, usually worked well. Of course, things were not always rosy, but such is life as well. What I craved from management was positive reinforcement and loving criticism. I suspect the children would like and respond well to the same from us.
What a concept.
Thanks for listening,
Judy
I can’t help wondering if this teacher worked exclusively at the Success Academy schools with high percentages of low-income students.
There are lots of upper middle class and middle class parents at the schools like Success Academy Upper West, Union Square, Bensonhurst and Cobble Hill and their descriptions of their school are very different. If 75% of the students at Upper West are the same students who easily get 4s at every decent public school in NYC which doesn’t do even a 10% of the obsessive prep, does that mean Success Academy can be much easier on the students in class and only target the very few mostly poor students for their own “got to go” lists that are not written down but known by the administrators?
I suspect if an observer walked into a Kindergarten class at Upper West — mostly white and middle class — the students would not be expected to be 100% hands folded eyes on teacher at all times. Are students who are poor treated the same as students whose parents are college-educated, middle class, and likely to do well on state tests without this kind of discipline?
NYC Public School Parent. I have a child at Success Academy Bensonhurst, which has 40% of students from low income families. We haven’t seen anything like what is described in the article, in terms of frivolous student suspensions or emotionally unavailable teachers. But yes, the discipline is strict, and all children are required to sit hands locked, backs straight and keep the eyes on the speaker (teacher or another student), during the SHORT periods of direct instruction (also known as “rug time”).
You can come and observe on your own – just sign up for an tour of whatever school in SA network you like and observe the classroom in action.
From the perspective of many of the parents at Success Academy Bensonhurst, the school’s extraordinarily rich, custom curriculum and personally invested, caring teachers are the main reason, that parents flock to it with 7 in-district applications for every open spot.
psdynpt, thank you for your input. You seem to be confirming that the harsh discipline happens far more at some SA schools that have nearly twice the percentage of low-income students and often 3 or 4 times as many African-American students than SA Bensonhurst. If you look at the Success Academy suspension rates that the school itself gave to PBS Newshour when John Merrow (who is pro-charter, fyi, just believes in honesty) did his recent report, it is clear that the schools with more white students and more middle class students, like Upper West, treat their children differently. The suspension rates for Upper West were 4% and 5% the same years that Harlem 1 was 27% and 23%! And since Eva Moskowitz has explained that suspending 5 year olds is what helps the culture, if the school with the oldest children is suspending the most, that certainly implies that the % of 5 year olds being suspended at Harlem 1 those years was even higher! (Unless suspending 5 year olds isn’t working, and those are all older kids who are suspended at Harlem 1, but that would mean Ms. Moskowitz was lying about suspensions of 5 year olds proving to make them better scholars later, right?) The suspension rates for Bensonhurst aren’t available, but I’m sure they will similarly be around 5% instead of being 3x as high as they are in some of the other Success Academies.
I suppose you can argue that low-income minorities just are worse behaved and more violent at age 5, as Eva Moskowitz seems to want us to believe, but I think we both know that the reason those kids are suspended in schools like Harlem 1 is because getting the struggling low-income students out the door is the best way to get very high test scores.
I strongly doubt that every 5 year old who enters SA Bensonhurst is able to track the teacher from day 1. In other schools, those kids are severely punished for it and made to feel so terrible they act out. I am glad the mostly white and mostly middle class children at SA Bensonhurst don’t have to experience that but the suspension rate speaks for itself. Harsh discipline is reserved for low-income minorities.
There is no severe punishment of 5 year olds for taking their eyes off the teacher, that’s just nonsense.
The problem with the teacher’s account in the report, is that she does not name the specific SA schools that she worked at, making it impossible to not only verify her account and put it in perspective, but to also make changes wherever they may be needed. Perhaps she worked in one or two with issues, or may be she was a problem teacher herself, or perhaps both – it’s impossible to tell. I understand that this teacher wants to stay anonymous for her own career’s sake, but, in doing so, she is preventing us from being able to examine a school and/or principal that, according to her, has problems.
I am not going to indulge in attributing bad motives to people, so no, I don’t buy that SA uses suspensions as a way to force out kids, that would otherwise lower the network’s test scores. This is the same tired mud-slinging, that Republican politicians do toward the Democrats, and vice versa, and everyone assumes bad intent on the part of the other.
You may not like Success Academy’s strict discipline, much like I don’t like UFT’s contract that values teacher seniority over performance, but vilifying the other side creates unnecessary hostility and encourages the status quo.
Focus on making traditional public schools in NYC become a better, merit-based environment for the best teachers, and then perhaps you won’t see 10 applications for every open spot at Success Academy.
Psdynt,
The teacher who wrote the article about Success Academy identified the specific schools in her letter to me. She was worried about retribution. I agreed with her that she should remain anonymous and that she should not identify the schools she worked in. Everyone who has contacted me who left Success Academy has been fearful, afraid to be identified. I have gotten details that I can’t reveal because it’s not my story. So, don’t believe them if you choose not to. In the circumstances, with employees intimidated, we would know nothing about what happens there, except press releases from the organization.
Diane, thanks for the reply, that’s fair. Question is – if this report is in fact true, how to put the magnifying glass on that specific one or two schools. You see, I am less interested in bashing SA and more interested in correcting problems, if and where they exist, but that requires some specificity.
Bashing the entire SA network as a whole will not do any good – there are MANY SA parents, like myself, that are educated, knowledgeable and involved with their kids’ education, that have a high opinion of their school.
A-ha! Thanks @psdnypt for the explanation of rug time at SA. We have the misfortune of living near Upper West “Success” and often see their students on the bus. Sometimes my kids will start goofing around, working out math equations out loud. Sometimes they purposely make mistakes because they are joking around, laughing, having a good time. There have been multiple occasions when I have seen SA kids stare at my kids with this fixed, emotionless stare while they are doing their math. I’ve found their behavior odd and now understand the origin. @psdnypt How are you comfortable sending your child to a school that instills in him/her weird habits that carry outside of the classroom?
“How are you comfortable sending your child to a school that instills in him/her weird habits that carry outside of the classroom?” Beth, don’t believe everything you read in the media. Here are some recent links from our school (oh those gloomy faces lol):
Many of our kids can’t wait to go to school.
Oh, and between daily science lesson from K on, a field trip every 2-3 weeks, sports, dance, art, chess and so much more – they get to have a lot of fun.
Sorry you have seen some gloomy faces on the Upper West Side, can’t speak for them, but you are unlikely to see that in our school.
Not sure if this link will work: https://video-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xat1/v/t43.1792-2/11777286_1000491896668338_2087599870_n.mp4?efg=eyJxZSI6Ind3d192aWRlb3NfaHRtbDVfY2JyX3NoYWthXzExMjMxNSxkYXNoX3NlZzJfYnVmNV9sb3dlcl9iaXRzX3Y0IiwicmxyIjoyNTI5LCJybGEiOjExNzAsInZlbmNvZGVfdGFnIjoiaGQifQ%3D%3D&rl=2529&vabr=1686&oh=671dd41b104dfa85c16c34eab99c1b47&oe=565FCF73
@psdnypt – In typical charter school supporter fashion, you didn’t answer my question and then turned it back to me with a nonsensical assumption. I wrote about a first-hand observation. (And I have many of them since we live close to the school.). Given the number of videos and photo you posted, this clearly made you uncomfortable, because really one would have been sufficient.
That said, neither your photos/videos nor your comments about the school’s specials impress me. You can find photos and videos of smiling children on DOE school web sites. You’ll find many children at DOE schools who love going to school in the morning and have fun, Chess, dance, arts, sports – those things are found at the majority of DOE schools in our neighborhood, even the ones with high free lunch populations. Our schools don’t have science every day or go on as many fields trips, but I don’t think that is necessary. The SA day is so long. Of course, they have to fill it with something. Then, of course, I can’t neglect to mention that you do no fundraising. Taxpayers should not obligated to subsidize your freeloading or for that matter a parallel network of redundant schools.
What we do have that you don’t have are experienced educators. The least experienced of my children’s teachers had ten years experience as a head teacher. Two had twenty plus years experience. Teachers, like the woman who wrote this piece however enthusiastic and well-meaning, can’t be compared to those who bring those things plus experience. I’ll be kind enough to refrain from including facetious abbreviations in my reply.
Beth, I am not your enemy, trust me on that. And I don’t believe in stereo-typing and “us” and “them”, sorry. We are all parents who want the best for their and all other kids in NYC. Let’s please not take the low road of mutual accusations.
Psdynt, we know exactly which Success Academy schools have issues — the ones with very high suspension and attrition rates. Which always seem to have a very small percentage of white students – sometimes almost none. And which also seem to have mostly low-income students, unlike Bensonhurst, which gives priority seats to children in a district that is over 70% low income students and yet has a school where only 40% of the students are low-income.
As is clear from the photos, your children attend a SA school that is predominantly white and middle class students, despite the district where they are located being predominantly poor and non-white. We know that Success Academy schools that are predominantly African-American and Latino and 70 – 90% low-income are the ones where students are frequently suspended and frequently disappear.
No doubt more than 50% of the little children in those photos you posted will not be MIA by 4th or 5th grade. Nor will they be suspended.
I understand that your child is getting a “free” private school education at a nice little charter school that has a far higher percentage of white and middle class kids than are in your district. I’m sure you are thrilled. But please don’t pretend you care about “all other kids” in NYC. If you did, you would be criticizing your CEO who claims that when 24% of the 5 and 6 year olds are suspended, it is because they are just violent children who deserve it. Especially when each of those children had a parent just as motivated as you did to seek out a better school. Just because their parents happen to be African-American does not mean you should simply accept without question Eva Moskowitz’ claims that those kids were unteachable and violent at age 6. Or maybe that’s something you simply accept without question, at your mostly white, mostly middle class school.
There could be thousands of Success Academy schools, but if they refuse to educate the vast majority of at-risk kids, what does it matter whether there are supposedly 10 kids for every seat? By the way, saying that implies that there is something wrong with the lottery since many SA schools have out of district children who should not be getting in until every single in-district child on that wait list is served. If they are so desperate for children that they aren’t filling every spot with the students who live in the district, then pretending there are 10 kids for every seat is nonsense. THAT is true of all the public schools who can’t even fit all the kids zoned for their school in overcrowded classrooms. Success Academy can’t even fill all its seats with kids in the entire district – so your parroting that ridiculous number is pretty lame. If anything, it is the good neighborhood schools that parents are desperate to get into. Are you really going to claim that SA rarely goes to its wait list? Come on, let’s have an honest discussion or why even bother to post here?
The basic truth is that Success Academy schools in low income neighborhoods show substantially better educational outcomes for the majority of the kids, compared to the zoned schools next door, even if you correct for self-selection and all other factors ( http://gradingatlanta.tumblr.com/post/95042173270/is-success-academy-the-climate-change-of-k-12 ).
For many parents, if the choice is between a zoned school where under 20% of the kids read or add at grade level, versus Success Academy where that rate is 60%, plus there is a field trip 2-3 times a month, daily science starting in kindergarten and a lot of free or low cost extras, it’s a no-brainer – many parents choose Success Academy, despite (and often thanks to) its low tolerance for disruptive behavior in the classroom.
Unless you understand the overall educational landscape in economically impoverished neighborhoods of NYC, you can’t fully appreciate the extraordinary accomplishment that Success Academy brings to closing the educational gap between the rich and the poor in NYC.
Success Academy’s educational style need not be the only game in town, that brings quality education to low income neighborhoods, and others are welcome to show us another way to achieve high education outcomes. But, until they do, criticisms of Success Academy will ring hollow to actual parents, that live in these neighborhoods and have to pick the best school for their kids.
PS. NYC public school parent (known as parent010203 elsewhere), let’s please dial down the shaming and the moral superiority.
If Eva’s autocratic, opaque, Suspension, Shame and Punish Academies (the same goes for KIPP and other opaque, often fraudulent and autocratic corporate charter schools funded by public money that are often worse or no different than public schools they are replacing) is your idea of a better school choice, then what kind of parent does that make you?
1. Authoritarian Parent
2. Authoritative Parent
3. Permissive Parent
4. Un-involved Parent
To discover what the four parenting styles mean, click the link and learn and the select the choice that best fits your parenting style.
http://psychology.about.com/od/developmentalpsychology/a/parenting-style.htm
Children start their learning at home before they are even born, and by the time they are ready to start kindergarten at age five or six, the child is either on their way to being a literate, life long learner or they start behind and often stay behind.
The love of reading started well before age five or six. Children that are not exposed to books, magazines and newspapers during those formative years, start out behind and often stay behind.
You also didn’t mention the fact that Eva’s Suspension Academies gets rid of the most difficult children to teach and doesn’t replace them with new students.
According to a 2015 report in the New York Times, teaching is heavily scrutinized, and teachers are pressured to be very demanding of students. Most teacher are recent college graduates, and 11-hour work-days are the norm. According to Moskowitz some teachers and a few principals are allowed to work part-time. In 2013–14, three Success Academy schools had teacher turnover rates of over 50% (compared to 6.1% in New York’s public school system). The schools’ officials have said that the figure is inflated by teachers who had moved from one Success school to another or to non-teaching positions, and that according to their numbers the total teacher attrition rate within the Success network was 17%.[3]
Most of the former teachers interviewed by the Times said they quit because they disagreed with Success’ punitive approach to students, and not because of the heavy workload.[3]
Some parents of special-needs students at Success Academy schools have complained of overly strict disciplinary policies which have resulted in high rates of suspension and attempts to pressure the parents to transfer their special-needs children out of the schools. State records and interviews with two dozen parents indicate that the schools failed at times to adhere to federal and state laws in disciplining special-education students.[7]
Statistics gathered by the New York State Education Department show much higher rates of suspension at most Success Academy schools than at neighborhood public schools. School spokesmen have denied improper treatment of any student, and founder Eva Moskowitz has defended school practices as promoting “order and civility in the classroom”.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Success_Academy_Charter_Schools
This is NOT the way to educate children in the schools.
Lloyd Lofthouse, some of the things you sited are true, some aren’t, but the basic fact is – for many parents in low income communities, Success Academy provides significantly better educational outcomes for most kids, compared to other nearby schools.
Now, per DOE, Success Academy has an average student attrition rate of 10% a year, less than most traditional public schools, and the students that leave are replaced with new students, randomly, through 4th grade. So, even if we assumed, that every student leaving Success Academy happened to be academically struggling, still SA’s academic outcomes would far exceed those in the nearby schools in low income communities.
So, the high suspension rate at SA have not led to a high student attrition rate, debunking the central argument that SA gets rid of significant percentage of struggling kids.
On your points about the quality of the education – SA’s unusual richness of the curriculum has been well documented, and I have seen it first hand since I have a child there. Your knowledge is indirect and probably based on selective reading of media coverage. With such asymmetric level of direct knowledge and involvement, I will be happy to explain what I know of SA’s curriculum to you, but there is no point for me to debate you, other than to say that you have been given some bad information.
You avoid answering my question and then make claims with no links. You allege that some of the sources I provided links to are wrong but provide no links to reputable sources that prove your allegations MIGHT be correct.
In addition, what’s wrong with using the community based, democratic process (since we live in a democracy) to improve support for the non-profit, transparent, public schools that answer to elected school boards—-school boards elected by the same community the schools are located in?
Why do you want to turn OUR children, not just yours, over to a private sector, for profit (no matter how you look at it) opaque, autocratic corporate charter school run by a CEO who USES children—-using tactics that public schools cannot use—-to grow her chain?
Lloyd, so that’s a fair question, I will be happy to talk facts with links, if we are having that kind of exchange. Which specific facts from my message do you want me to support with links and data?
I didn’t answer the rhetorical question at the top of your message, because I (obviously) disagreed with your framing and premise. So I am happy to discuss facts, if we agree to keep the noise to the minimum and have a respectful, factual exchange, minimizing broad characterizations.
A frequent myth about SA, is that it gets rid of a high number of low performing students, to such a great extent that it substantially affects its test scores. The fact is, that SA’s annual average student attrition is a low 10%, according to the NYC DOE-provided attrition data for charters, discussed in this article by Beth Fertig of WNYC: http://www.wnyc.org/story/302728-top-ten-charters-with-high-attrition-rates/ . Raw DOE data used in the article is available here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e48Jl7bNHk06-6AQb4pt3yiTwfQvI3a1e_Df1nRaveA/edit?pli=1#gid=0
Here is a numerical analysis of various SA critiques, related to the validity of SA’s test scores, can be found below. This article analyses the score impact of the difference in opt-in, student attrition, ELL and Special Needs rules or populations between traditional zoned schools and Success Academy: http://gradingatlanta.tumblr.com/post/95042173270/is-success-academy-the-climate-change-of-k-12 .
Author’s conclusion: “a portion of Success Academy’s overachievement may be explained by factors related to the student population served. However, a majority of Success Academy’s overachievement remains unexplained by these factors; therefore, it seems the schools’ curriculum and operations are responsible for much of their success”.
Now if you are saying, that SA has a hundred flaws, you might be right on that, AND YET, in low income neighborhoods, many parents feel that SA is better, than the available alternatives.
And that is what most SA critics often don’t get.
So all this energy spent on criticizing SA may be better spent on making our district schools in low income neighborhoods better.
“it seems the schools’ curriculum and operations are responsible for much of their success.”
I served in the US Marines and many of the tactics used by Eva’s Shame, Blame and Bully tactics is simliar to what I experienced in boot camp. Fear is the driving factor. Fear of shame. Fear of being targeted for abuse. Fear of the punishment for failure.
Fear! Fear! Fear!
Marine Corps boot camp methods work great to train one of the best fighting forces in the world—after all it helped kept my alive in Vietnam and I made it home—-but is it wise to apply simliar autocratic and often bully methods of shame and fear for kindergartners who are age five or six to achieve high scores on standardized tests that many experts and studies prove do not lead to success later in life—that GPA is a much better indication of future college readiness and success later in life.
For instance, “USA Today reports: New study says high school GPA matters more than SAT scores.”
http://college.usatoday.com/2014/02/26/new-study-says-high-school-gpa-matters-more-than-sat-scores/
“I didn’t answer the rhetorical question at the top of your message, because I (obviously) disagreed with your framing and premise.”
How would you like me to ask this question?
Would you please kindly, identify your parenting style based on the definitions from Psychology.com?
It’s simple, really. You read the four definitions for the four parenting styles, and then identify what fits your parenting style the most. Maybe your parenting style is hybrid of two or more.
If you have problems with the framing of the Psychology.com piece, then I suggest comparing your style of parenting to Amy Chua. She wrote a memoir about her parenting style called “The Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother”.
After all, I’ve read that about 24% of parents in the United States practice this tiger parenting style.
http://psychology.about.com/od/developmentalpsychology/a/parenting-style.htm
http://amychua.com/
I must admit that I’m suspicious that you might not want to reveal that your parenting style is a match for Authoritarian Parenting/Amy Chua that I think is a perfect fit with Eva’s cruel and unusual and demanding methods of teaching and controlling children in her autocratic, private sector, opaque, corporate charter schools that sidestep laws that apply to public schools and she pays herself more than $500,000 to manage.
Let’s look at a comparison to what Eva pays herself for the 11,000 student sin her Success Academy Charter schools to the Canceller of the New York Public school with more than one million students—did you know that Eva wants to take over the entire school system in New York City so all of the students are attending her Success Academies—-there would be less or no choice once the public schools were gone. Imagine how much Eva would pay herself then?
Chancellor – Carmen Fariña Salary: $222,182 versus Eva’s $500k+
Success Academy charter schools’ revenue doubles in a year; CEO Eva Moskowitz’s pay jumps to $567K. EXCLUSIVE: The charter school network hauled in a whopping $34.6 million for the financial year ending June 2013, which is up from $16.7 million the previous year, according to tax documents obtained by the Daily News.
No wonder Eva is bullying and abusing the children her opaque, authoritarian, private sector for profit schools—–that are allowed to skirt the laws that apply to public schools—teach. It’s obviously the money.
We already know that the high test scores you brag about and Eva brags about are not an indicate of college and career readiness or future success in life.
I repeat — Did you know that the GPA is more important than standardized test scores. Colleges recognize what you do every day for four years is a more accurate measure of your intellectual curiosity and your academic focus than is a test that you take on one Saturday morning. Most colleges will also recalculate the GPA using only the core courses (English, Math, Science, Social Studies, and Foreign Language) in their calculations. They want to see that you have taken each of these classes for four years and have had a significant trend upward in your grades. Then they look at whether you have taken advantage of the honors and AP courses your school offered. If you did, they add their own weight to the unweighted GPA. In case you were wondering, if you can’t get A’s and B’s in honors and AP courses, they really don’t want you to take them.
http://www.collegexpress.com/articles-and-advice/test-prep/ask-experts/whats-more-important-college-admission-decision-test-scores-or-gpa/
It’s late and I will try to answer tomorrow or over the weekend. In a nutshell, without taking the test, I come from a family of educators, I follow the “concerted cultivation” style of parenting, using Dr. Lareau’s terminology. I read most of Amy Chua’s books, including “The Battle Hymn Of the Tiger Mother” with great interest, but I am not a Tiger dad, at all. I pay particular attention to my kids’ enjoyment of learning, and would not send them to a school that they would not enjoy, or that would have a poor quality curriculum or be boring.
In fact, Success Academy’s open door policy for parents (a parent can show up unannounced and sit in on any class) is what got me such an appreciation for Success Academy’s vibe and teaching style, as well as discipline. It’s hard to tell constructive from abusive, unless you come and see it with your own eyes, you know.
Yes, of course I know that GPA is more important than test scores, since GPA is a better measure of on-going sustained ability to do classwork.
I find fascination with people’s salaries to be a sideshow issue, and I generally think that we should pay teachers much more than we do today, but it would have to be merit-based as opposed to seniority-based pay.
I think it’s obvious that I don’t share your characterizations of Success Academy, and I think that you are misinformed, but I am sure that you will disagree.
Enough for tonight, have a good night!
You claim to be an authoritative parent.
And yet you approve of the Gulag boot camp style that Eva uses to run her schools where, for instance, children as young as five are being forced out of fear to track the teacher with their eyes and the fact that teachers often ridicule and yell at students in front of their peers in class (similar to how KIPP runs its boot camp private sector schools paid for by the public)—I taught for thirty years in the public schools, and I only knew of one teacher who treated her students that way and she lost her job—she was unfit to be a teacher. The laws that public schools must follow do not allow teachers to treat students this way. These were laws that came about through the democratic process that some Americans seem proud to brag about to anyone who will listen. We are a republic. We are supposed to be a democracy—not an autocratic oligarchy where the citizens and children have no rights because a corporation took them away and fools supported that.
I think it is cruel and unusual to treat young children that harshly to boost test scores—-test scores that no evidence has proven actually leads to success later in life and college and or career readiness. In fact, there have been studies of children who grow up in authoritarian environments that these children suffer mentally/psychologically from gulag and boot camp abuse like that.
Then there are the children walking in file one behind the other with cheeks puffed out to indicate they are not talking to any other children in the hallway as they move from class to class and it is obvious they do this out of fear becasue they don’t want to be yelled at in front of their peers and embarrassed or risk suspension and ahving their parents called.
I have trouble thinking that any Authoritative parent—“heir disciplinary methods are supportive, rather than punitive”—would approve of and support Eva’s Authoritarian management style regardless of the alleged higher test scores that are meaningless.
If you support Eva and her tactics because it is alleged to boost test scores, then you should be ashamed of yourself. Test scores are not the end all. They are a false god.
Instead, I suggest, if you want to change the public schools, instead of getting rid of them and letting psychos like Eva bully and abuse our children in her opaque, autocratic, for-profit corporate Charters to boost test scores, that you take part in the democratic process that is available in community based, non-profit, transparent public schools to bring about meaningful change that improved the educational environment, and if you are over-ruled by the majority of people who vote, then live with it or put your children in private boot-camp schools that do not rob from the public funds to profit an obviously greedy tyrant like Eva or Rhee or any of the other corporate Charter monsters out there who are out to only raise test scores anyway they can even if they have to do it by destroying children.
Considering the gulag, boot camp tactics Eva uses to raise test scores of children as young as age FIVE, so she can brag and fool fools that high test scores are the yellow brick road to college and career readiness and a life filled with success and no failure, then we are headed back to the era before the Child Labor laws that attempted to end the abuse of children.
http://www.history.com/topics/child-labor
Lloyd, read the parenting style definitions. I have generally the authoritative style of parenting with occasional small streaks of permissiveness (when they wear me out 🙂 ).
psdynpt,
You haven’t yet explained why I am supposed to believe that a parent who sends their child to a Success Academy charter school with far FEWER low-income and minority students than their district has is a good source for information about how to educate at-risk kids. Unless you work for Success Academy, you have no idea what happens in schools where the majority of parents aren’t white and college educated, unlike the parents are the school where you send your child is. So why do you keep posting on here defending Success Academy schools that are over an hour away from yours where 27% of the low-income minority kids are suspended and many disappear each year. You have no idea what happens there and we already have proof that “got to go” lists and refusing to send home renewal forms are practices their principals use to weed out kids who are — coincidentally I’m sure — mostly African-American and low-income. The fact that there aren’t too many of “those” children in your child’s Success Academy charter school – thanks to Eva Moskowitz dropping lottery priority for at-risk kids, by the way — makes me wonder why you believe you know anything about how they are treated. You don’t. Unless you are an insider.
We both already acknowledged that in Success Academy schools where most of the parents are like you — middle class, college educated, and often white — the middle class kids are treated very kindly. They have suspension rates of 4% or less. Why do you think there was not one white Kindergarten student at HSA 1 last year, where suspension rates are 20% and higher? And yet at another SA school in the very same district, more than half the students are white and the suspension rate is very low.
You either know nothing about how low-income minority students at HSA 1 are treated, or you have some insider information. But it is public knowledge that high numbers are suspended and high numbers disappear and some kids don’t get renewal forms sent home because they are unwanted. Your posting here making outrageous claims is like me posting that I am certain all public schools are wonderful because my own child’s middle class school is wonderful. I wouldn’t do that, because I am interested in an HONEST debate. You most certainly are not – you are interested in shutting down criticism of a school that suspends low-income 5 and 6 year olds of color in extraordinary numbers. Why so desperate to shut down criticism? Because you want us all to believe that they all deserved it? What a racist you are. I really hope you don’t represent the typical white SA parent.
“the high suspension rate at SA have not led to a high student attrition rate, debunking the central argument that SA gets rid of significant percentage of struggling kids.”
Are you really claiming that the attrition rate in the SA schools that have low suspension rates is just as high as the attrition rate in the SA schools that have high suspension rates? Nope. So why are you posting that on here? The only study of the starting Kindergarten cohorts at 4 Success Academy schools was done by the IBO and published just this July and they found that 53 charter schools lost 49.5% of their starting K class by 5th grade. HALF! Wanna bet whether the 4 SA schools in that study had higher or lower Kindergarten attrition rates than the other 49 charter schools?I’m sure you don’t. But I’m sure that the mostly white and middle class kids at SA Bensonhurst won’t disappear in such large numbers, right? After all, those 4 SA schools in that IBO study had high numbers of at-risk kids and minorities and we know who it is who get suspended all the time, right? Not the 5 year olds in your Bensonhurst school, as you keep stating over and over again. They are treated very kindly and you keep insisting that if 27% of the mostly minority and low-income children at HSA 1 are suspended, it’s because they DESERVE it! Right? You don’t question it because you truly believe they must be violent. I’m sorry that you don’t find such a belief shameful, but I do.
Any examination of Success Academy schools demonstrates that a high percentage of children SUDDENLY disappear — and it isn’t approx. 10% a year as you claim, which is what it should be if parents randomly moved. When 40% of the economically disadvantaged 2nd graders (27% of ALL 2nd graders) aren’t around to take the 3rd grade test, that isn’t “random attrition” and it also isn’t honest to state here that it was. But that is exactly what happened at SA Bed Stuy 1. And there are similar anomalies at many SA schools where most kids are low-income. Kids don’t disappear at 10% a year — they suddenly disappear en masse! 40% of the at-risk kids from 2nd grade not making it to 3rd grade?? Can you imagine hoe long that “got to go” list was? So why would a parent like you claim that it’s 10% a year attrition when I have just showed you that isn’t true. I’m just testing you to see if you are a real parent — who would obviously have some concern about those numbers — or a SA shill — who obviously wouldn’t care. Which are you?
Why can’t you just say that if you are a hard-working, well-behaved and poor African-American or Latino student who doesn’t have any learning issues that would impact your ability to get at least a 3 on a standardized test, you are welcome with open arms? If you are one of the 40% of at-risk kids at one school who can’t be taught by the one method that inexperienced teachers know how to teach, you are “encouraged” to find a better fit or flunked – maybe multiple times. And why are so many of the low-income kids who stay so poorly taught despite the extra long days and school year that they end up having to repeat the year?
Don’t you know that is why Success Academy will not let any lottery winners from 1st grade on join their grade until they pass a placement test? It’s a great system because the only children allowed to replace the “not up to snuff kids” are kids who are already working at grade level! The rest are told they have to repeat a year, which conveniently discourages many of those “not up to snuff” kids from even accepting a spot. It’s a win-win for any low-income child who is already performing at or above grade level thanks to the good teaching at public schools! It’s a lose-lose for at-risk kids who disappear so frequently from SA schools that serve them.
Where you and I disagree is that a charter school who is supposed to be serving at-risk kids should be getting rid of so many of them. You are fine with it. I’m not.
The math is simple, provided by the DOE. SA loses an average 10% of its kids every year, less than an average traditional public school. And yes,10% a year means 55% over 5 years, no mystery here, and still less that an average district school.
Source – NYC DOE-provided attrition data for charters, discussed in this article by Beth Fertig of WNYC: http://www.wnyc.org/story/302728-top-ten-charters-with-high-attrition-rates/ . Raw DOE data used in the article is available here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e48Jl7bNHk06-6AQb4pt3yiTwfQvI3a1e_Df1nRaveA/edit?pli=1#gid=0
There is the curious phenomenon at Success Academy of the amazing and strange disappearance of students and teachers. http://www.thenation.com/article/secret-eva-moskowitzs-success/
Supporters of no-excuses schools used to say they enroll exactly the same kids but they have dropped that line because it is so manifestly false. SA has zero kids with disabilities compared to over 14% in same neighborhood public schools. How many principals or superintendents have zero education credentials and are paid $600,000 a year? How many small school districts have central offices in Wall Street with a 15-year lease costing $31 million? It’s all about the kids. Some kids.
If Eva would stop boasting about how much better her schools are compared to public schools with fewer resources and more ELLs and more kids with severe disabilities, she would not create such animosity.
“If Eva would stop boasting about how much better her schools are compared to public schools with fewer resources and more ELLs and more kids with severe disabilities, she would not create such animosity.”
Diane, thanks for the reply. I agree with your point, that Eva is partially responsible for the animosity toward Success Academy, but there is a lot of blame to go around on all sides, that’s for sure. As Deputy Mayor of NYC Richard Buery recently said: “One of the things that’s been the most frustrating is that the political environment around education is extraordinarily toxic … It’s hard to have basic, adult, civilized conversations around these issues.”
“SA has zero kids with disabilities compared to over 14% in same neighborhood public schools.” This is factually inaccurate according to current DOE data. Check on either Insideschools.org, or here https://data.nysed.gov/enrollment.php?year=2015&instid=800000061092 (I picked one SA school, you can check others as well). Overall, there was about 12%-14% of Students with disabilities oin the years 2011-2014 at Success Academy schools. But I think it’s possible that SA has a smaller percentage of students with the most severe disabilities, compared to zoned schools. can you please point me to the best source of data on that?
“…amazing and strange disappearance of students and teachers”. Average student attrition at Success Academy is 10% a year, less than in traditional public schools. I am not sure what these numbers were like when Success Academy first started in 2006 – I am sure they had their share of kinks to work out, but I don’t think that the narrative about “disappearing students” is not supported by recent data.
The average teacher attrition in the 2013-2014 school year was 83%. Student and teacher attrition stats and breakdown by individual SA school are based on SA’s FOIL response to John Merrow, available here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5mXKGS4xL6iVDRvaDBpdFVkdFE/view .
Again, I don’t know what the teacher attrition at SA was a few years back, and it’s not uncommon for a startup to have a higher teacher turnover in the beginning, to later stabilize, as it seems to be now doing.
But here is the CENTRAL QUESTION. If you look at Success Academy’s sky high test scores, then control for all of these factors above, trying to make an apples to apples comparison between Success Academy and a typical zoned school in a low income community, do you think that Success Academy’s test scores would become comparable to some of those low performing zoned schools? To rephrase, if you were able to take the entire cohort of students from Success Academy in, say, Harlem and then transplant them all into a nearby zoned school, where would they fare better, and how much better?
Because that is what parents with elementary age children want to know.
There is no easy way to answer that question directly (not for a few more years), but there are many indirect indicators.
This study tried to answer that question but trying to analyze the test score impact of the difference in opt-in, student attrition, ELL and Special Needs rules or populations between traditional zoned schools and Success Academy. http://gradingatlanta.tumblr.com/post/95042173270/is-success-academy-the-climate-change-of-k-12 .
Author’s conclusion: “a portion of Success Academy’s overachievement may be explained by factors, related to the student population served. However, a majority of Success Academy’s overachievement remains unexplained by these factors; therefore, it seems the schools’ curriculum and operations are responsible for much of their success”.
Whether or not you believe this particular piece of research, isn’t this the central question?
Yuri, I believe that if public schools were legally allowed to exclude children with the most severe disabilities and push out kids with behavior problems and accept few ELLs, they would scores that matched Eva’s.
Yuri, you first agreed that Eva’s boasting created a PR problem. It also generates toxic debate and hostility.
But then you proceed to boast about her test scores as if you were Eva’s PR point man.
“Yuri, you first agreed that Eva’s boasting created a PR problem. It also generates toxic debate and hostility.But then you proceed to boast about her test scores as if you were Eva’s PR point man.” Diane, I am a parent with a child at Success Academy Bensonhurst, hardly an SA PR man. I think it’s quite appropriate to advertise one’s accomplishments, but I don’t like when people go negative and start blaming the other. Eva certainly wagged a finger of blame at “failing schools”, and, as a parent, I would rather she focus on advertising Success Academy, because negativity turns off potential allies. Now, the UFT and others have also gone deeply negative on Success Academy, so this is hardly something unique to Eva.
Personally, I think that this is part of our broken overall political discourse, where people would rather blame the other than focus on improving their own domain. Speck in your brother’s eye, you know.
dianeravitch wrote: “Yuri, I believe that if public schools were legally allowed to exclude children with the most severe disabilities and push out kids with behavior problems and accept few ELLs, they would scores that matched Eva’s.”
Diane, thanks for clarifying your point of view, I think this is a very important point. In a few years, when kids from several Success Academy schools graduate from high school and enter college, we will know part of this answer, and we will know even more once they graduate from college.
Meanwhile, what is the best way to make a reasonable and educated guess?
If Success Academy and district schools had exactly the same population, what would Success Academy test scores be? I think it is a MATHEMATICAL question, that can be answered with some degree of certainty, even if it’s a hypothetical.
For me, as a data person by trade, based on lots of information and data that I have read, I agree with the conclusion of the author of this article http://gradingatlanta.tumblr.com/post/95042173270/is-success-academy-the-climate-change-of-k-12 ,
that “a portion of Success Academy’s overachievement may be explained by factors related to the student population served. However, a majority of Success Academy’s overachievement remains unexplained by these factors; therefore, it seems the schools’ curriculum and operations are responsible for much of their success”
Fundamentally, my opinion is a guess, that is based on some statistical analysis, that, for example, tells me that the 10% of the annual student attrition rate can contribute no more than 10% a year into a possible test score inflation at SA, as compared to a zoned school. Take the opt-in bias, and it’s possible to estimate its contribution to test score inflation, and so on.
I would like to hear some numbers, demonstrating, how it would be mathematically possible to have 100% of SA’s overachievement be accounted by the differences in the student population.
Let’s take, say, Success Academy Bed Stuy 2 where 89% of the 3rd graders passed math last year, and compare it with the co-located PS 59, where 3% of the 3rd graders passed the standardized math test. Let’s try to compare these two schools on an equal footing, apples to apples. After taking points away from SA BS2 for opt-in bias, more middle income kids, fewer students with disabilities and fewer English Language Learners, in order to normalize its test scores to the PS59’s population, you would reasonably assume that SA BS2’s test scores, if it had the student body from PS59, would be lower than 89%. That is true, but how do you mathematically get from 89% to 3%?
Do you know what I mean? Can you shed some light on how you figured, that, given the same student population, Success Academy’s test scores in low income neighborhoods would be just like its nearby counterparts? Not that they would be somewhat better, or somewhat worse, but pretty much the same?
Would love to understand your thinking on this.
Thanks
psdynpt, why do you keep using that suspect gradingatlanta blog post as if it was real research? It isn’t. That’s why it hasn’t been published anywhere, and the only people who cite it are PR folks. That study ignored attrition rates and looked at the scores of the students who remained. Do you think Cancer Treatment Centers of America has better doctors than Sloan-Ketting because they just tell patients with advanced disease (or whose disease progresses) that they can’t help them anymore and pretend that their 99% success rate with patients with stage 1 easy to treat cancers is a miracle! That’s why no one has peer reviewed that gradingatlanta study — it has about as much credence as that.
We know from July’s charter school attrition study that 49.5% of the entering K classes at 53 charter schools disappeared by 5th grade. At Success Academy, that disappearance happens suddenly and it is about as “random” as the “got to go” lists are random. The fact you have to pretend otherwise marks you as a PR shill for Success and not a random progressive who actually is curious about why so many at-risk students disappear.
Also, why are you using Beth Fertig’s 3 year old article with 4 year old data from a single year as your source? If anyone knows Beth Fertig I wish you would ask her why she is allowing her reporting to be used to pretend that there are no unusually high numbers of missing students at Success Academy.
Why didn’t Beth Fertig or another enterprising reporter use the RECENT data from the IBO’s July 2015 report that showed that 53 charter schools — including 4 of the earliest Success Academy schools, lost 49.5% of their entering Kindergarten class. If psdynpt was really the “progressive” he claimed to be, he would be alarmed at half the entering 5 year olds being MIA. But then again, they were all low-income in schools that suspend 20% and more of their youngest children, so I suspect he far prefers using 5 year old data and some “gradingatlanta” blog that is laughable.
Please inform Joe and Mika about your experiences. They seem to be among Eva’s top tier cheerleaders. They do not offer “in-depth analysis” and must be held accountable.
“While I believed in, and still believe in, Success Academy’s mission of giving children an excellent public education, I could not support their drastic behavioral expectations and discipline policies for children, as well as the way they exploit and demoralize teachers.”
Success Academy may have a mission statement that says they want students to have an excellent public education, but the true mission of Success Academy is to cherry pick students who make SA look good so that Eva can fill her coffers.
This is why I object to Success Academy so much more than other charter schools. If it comes down to a choice between keeping a child who is struggling to learn and getting good test scores, getting good test scores always wins. The child is expendable to the higher goal of being able to brag that your system is 100% foolproof and any school should be able to educate the toughest kids if they just used SA non-union teachers.
If I taught my middle schoolers that way, I would be fired. It’s so demeaning to do that to children.
Ambitious young people choose to work at SA because they can more quickly climb the ladder or plug a nice line in a grad school or corporate application. It’s certainly no place for anyone who hopes to spend a lifetime teaching.
I am most likely older than you…but after determining that I was no longer wanted, I would have made them fire me. I am just wicked enough that I would have made my last days and hours as enjoyable as possible for the kids, knowing full well that I was on my way out anyway. I am so sorry this has happened to you, and sorrier still for the permanent damage being done to these children. This needs to be publicized everywhere. Are the parents so disengaged that they dont know what is happening???
What a terrible experience. Thank you for your candor.
Wow. Why does this not surprise me…………..They need to close these schools. Moskowitz has no ability to run a real educational institution. She is damaging children and teachers for a whole generation……….
What an upside-down world. It’s amazing that one has to spend a breath of air on a word of debate– or a minute of life reading defensive newspaper accounts– of reprehensible practices which I imagine would get teachers/ admins fired & bldg shuttered in any such public school. Yet public monies continue to be siphoned from public schools into this sham chain on the pretext that one must not meddle in the ‘experimental’, ‘innovative’ methods of charter schools.
It’s too bad that the mainstream media cannot focus a spotlight on this blatant abuse since they are owned by the people who support the abusers. I feel like we are living in an Orwellian /1984/kafkaesque/bizarro universe and can only hope and wait for a return to what I used to consider “normal.”
That young lady didn’t work in a school … she worked in a cult.
This might be the most disturbing piece I yet read about charter schools. One paragraph of horror followed by another. I can’t imagine the knotted existence this young teacher had to endure .. but I’m even more concerned about those children who are … in absolute truth … being abused. If these sorts of things to happened to any adult there would be hell to pay.
I retired ten years ago after a wonderful career of more than three decades. In a nonchalant email exchange with a former colleague about a year later, he said to me, “You know … you taught during the Golden Age of teaching. Things are swishing around like a queasy stomach. You escaped just in time.” Indeed. Indeed, I did.
I wonder what these so-called “BBGL scholars” are really like? I wonder how many of their behavior issues (if indeed they really have any) are the result of spending nine hours a day in such a stressful environment? I bet if we were to observe these kids in a normal, age-appropriate classroom, most of them would appear to be completely normal. I can’t wrap my head around the idea of suspending small children for minor infractions, or even for major ones like hitting and biting. Little kids who act out that way need HELP, and the school should be giving it to them instead of sending them home.
I thank this teacher for sharing her story. I hope she has found work in a better school. I hope everything is working out well for Mr. Z, too. A quality school system would be fighting to keep teachers like these, not shoving them out the door.
Growing up in NYC public school system from K-12 was a NIGHTMARE. I appreciate the fact that there are now charter schools who want to see students achieve. I felt like in some cases I wasn’t given a good enough education. When I got to college, math classes such as calculus were a horrible for me. Had to withdraw because I didn’t have the skills to succeed. No amount of tutoring was going to help me stay in some of those classes. Shout out to the charter movement in NYC.
Charterchamp123, since you didn’t have the skills, there is a 50% chance you would have been made to feel misery and leave the charter school instead of staying. Someone in public school taught you to write – in a charter school your lack of mathematical ability could have had you drummed out since you would not be an asset to the school anymore. The performance of charter school students in higher level math is still unproven as the students getting high scores on state tests are scoring quite poorly on higher level math like the SHSAT, which takes the same kind of thinking that calculus does later. No doubt you would be drummed out quickly from a charter school and not even have the education you do now.
This needs to be heard. I encourage the writer to send this out over and over to major publications in hopes that it will be published, and work from there if it is not. People need to know!
Charterchamp, I don’t know if you’re for real or a plant, but, personally, I feel that charters have a place…but not this type. There is no place for fascist teaching techniques in public education, nor for profit-oriented businesses running ed. If you believe in charters, maybe you can be part of making them decent.
I am a NYC public school kindergarten teacher who has a new student who transferred from Success Academy. He is a sweet boy who is well behaved. He told me he was on yellow and red each day for behavior. I do not use behavior charts but if I did, he would be on green. I asked him if he behaved any differently there and he said no. He got suspended at SA for not being in his line spot. He is clearly traumatized. He is reading below the insanely high standards for a K student and I assume that is why he was targeted.
Sounds like this teacher is perfect for a NYC DOE run school which has no standards for academic achievement or classroom expectations. And even more fitting for the teacher is that there is no accountability for teachers or administrators but lucky for the unions, they get to collect their dues and lobby for their political agenda.
Yes Lulu, this abused and overworked teacher is clearly the problem in this system..
No standards for academic achievement or classroom expectations? No accountability for teachers or administrators?! Excuse me but which parallel universe do you inhabit?!
NYC DOE schools have expectations for their teachers and students. Success Academy only has expectations for students and if they don’t meet them, it’s the “got to go” list for them. As long as the SA teacher follows the rote lesson and punishes those “got to go” students who aren’t learning quickly enough and convinces their parents to pull them out soon, she is golden and due for a promotion to running her own SA school in 2 or 3 years.
At a public school, the DOE teachers would continue to try their best to teach those children instead of devoting all their time to making them feel enough misery so that they leave. And of course, go to those DOE schools you seem to despise. Lucky for you that there is someone else around to pick up all the pieces of the broken children that Success Academy leaves behind. Shhhh…..I know you like to pretend those kids don’t exist or perhaps you claim that they all end up at special schools for severely disturbed children costing taxpayers $100,000/year. In fact, most of the kids on Success Academy’s “got to go” lists end up at those public schools you keep bashing that are given very few resources. Shame on you for bashing them.
Glad you have the courage to get your story out. People need to know how alarming the narrative is in our schools. I like to point to a simple fact – one third of students are proficient in reading and math (check nationsreportcard.gov). If only one out of every three kids really understand what is going on in a classroom, what do you think the other two thirds of the children are doing? What do you think the environment looks like?
If the unruly students are constantly disrupting the learning environment of the rest pf the students in the classroom, I don’t see anything wrong with sending them to home-school.