I like Dr. Ben Carson’s demeanor: calm, cool, collected. But the things he says are often appalling.
In his calm voice, he often says things that are extremist.
In this video, he praises home-schooling and criticizes public education.
The President of the United States should not take a stand in favor of home schooling unless he thinks it is good public policy for most children.
I would not ban home-schooling for those who want to do it, but it makes no sense as a public policy for the nation. It is one thing to have dubious ideas about how to educate our children, but it is a step beyond rational to suggest that most should be educated by their parents at home. Many parents are ill-equipped to teach their children much beyond the basics; they are surely not masters of algebra, geometry, calculus, and modern science and world history. Many parents are working two or three jobs to make ends meet.
Home schooling should remain a fringe sector for the few parents who have the time and the qualifications to do it.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Criticizing public schools is a requirement in politics. It’s so common I’m starting to think they sign a contract with donors.
I do think the focus on “choice” is odd among politicians just because the vast majority of kids attend public schools. It’s oddly narrow. Obviously it isn’t narrow within the ed reform “movement”, because charters and vouchers are their preferred schools and their focus, but it’s not representative of reality. I would love to see an analysis of how much time/rhetoric my state leaders spend on charters and vouchers versus how much time they spend on the schools 93% of kids attend. I think it would be way out of wack.
People like choice.
Generally, Chiara, I consider you a lot smarter than I am about this stuff…but my political reaction is that republicans are unusually quiet about education issues, as they quietly observe democrats doing most of the work they want done. Maybe there is one contract that pretty much covers both parties……by the way….just for the record…..just joking about Trump and Carson….in hopes people will pay closer attention to what Carson is saying.
Of our four children, we did home school one of them. It was difficult but in his case it was the best thing to do. I am surprised Dr. Carson made that comment re home schooling and public education. I, too, like his demeanor but I agree that his comment regarding public education is scary. President Obama, for whatever reason, has really caused havoc on public education and I am very disappointed in what is occurring. Dr. Carson sounds like he is also clueless regarding public education and our democracy. Thanks for keeping us informed.
Anthony Falco, you used the right word for the Bush-Obama strategy: havoc
Who the heck was he speaking to, Phyllis Shafley’s Eagle Forum?
Another hare-brained idea that presupposes a two-parent family with a decent household income that allows Mother to remain at home with the children – WHERE SHE BELONGS – amIright??
I am privileged to be able to remain at home with my children. It’s not such a hare-brained idea . . . There are many women who believe that raising our own children is where we belong.
Where in that video did he advocate for homeschooling as public policy for anyone, let alone the entire nation?
Frankly, I was more alarmed by his praise for charter schools.
He said that homeschooling was the best education and that home-schooled children “do the best.”
Yes, I heard him, but nowhere did I hear him say that he wants that to be national policy. I am not in favor of homeschooling, but by some measures he’s correct: homeschooled students do “do the best.” That’s different than saying it’s what he’d push for as President.
Similarly, nowhere did Diane say that Ben Carson said he wants homeschooling to be national policy.
A voice of reason! Some children do much better homeschooled. You cannot change the fact that they do very well on SATs etc. However, that could change with the Common Core directed SATs by Coleman. I believe this ploy will be used to try to end homeschooling. By stating the obvious, Dr Carson is not making any policy. Let the parents decide. Just like all public schools are not the best—all parents as educators aren’t the best either. I think that most parents know when they are over their heads and can no longer teach a subject…they have and will seek other options.
April, since there is no requirement that home schoolers take standardized tests, no agency keeps accurate records about their performance or even how many children are home schooled. To assume that they are all successful is ideology or wishful thinking, not fact.
He said:
“Home schooling does the best. Private schools do the next best. Charter schools do the next best. [note the change in wording] Public schools do the worse.”
He also admonished public schools “Public schools need to learn to compete with the other sectors” (paraphrased)
Well, since home schooling is so great, perhaps Ben Carson can explain why I’m currently teaching the alphabet and numbers to one of my 2nd graders who was home schooled for the last 2 years.
All parents should consider their children’s first teachers. All parents are home schoolers.
Not without background information on the student. What is their home life like? Would they be struggling with the alphabet if they had been in school? Perhaps they have a learning disability? Perhaps they have been focusing on other skills . . . Some children do not learn to read naturally until they are older . . .
Nope, no learning disabilities. He has had no academics at all. None. Not even Sesame Street. Luckily WA State requires evidence of progress for home schoolers (assessment), and he was ordered to public school when they realized he was of 3rd grade age and did not even know his alphabet. Prior to this he lived in Texas, otherwise WA State would have had him in school sooner. He was placed in 2nd grade so he would have a chance of trying to catch up without being completely behind all his peers for the entire year. In 2 months he’s learned his alphabet, numbers to 20, to write his name, and to color (almost) in the lines. He can now sit and listen to a read-aloud and do a basic oral retell of the beginning, middle, end, and is learning to socialize with peers of his age group. No behavior issues other than a lack of socialization with other kids, no medical issues. Just no schooling.
That is unfourtate but hardly evidence against everyone who homeschools. I homeschool two of my children currently and the others are in public school. I utilize many resources to ensure my kids are receiving a decent education. I’m also a foster parent. I see what parents do to their children as well as what they fail to do. Your example sounds more like an irresponsible parent than a homeschool problem. There was no homeschool apparently.
Unfortunately, there are misunderstandings about homeschooling. There are co-ops formed, or paid classes, where children learn topics that parents do not feel comfortable teaching at home. For many families, it is about individual learning, student led at their own pace.
I wonder when co-ops become public schools. I lost count of the number of students that struggle in math, yet parents tell me “they got an A in homeschool!”. A few can pull it off, but it takes time, sacrifice, money, and luck to make homeschooling work. And if a learning challenge becomes apparent, the stress levels and difficulties for parents rise exponentially.
That is unfortunate that you have had negative encounters. Do you think that perhaps those same students would have also struggled with math if they had been in school? Also, sometimes they are not on the same timeframe as those who have been in school.
@ Beth: “Do you think that perhaps those same students would have also struggled with math if they had been in school?”
That’s part of the problem with homeschooling. There are limited ways to compare.
But here’s what we can assume, while keeping in mind assumptions are not always testable. But here’s a hypothesis – since when we disaggregate student performance based on their parents’ income, public school kids beat their peers (private schools/charter schools) in many cases (especially math achievement), I would highly doubt that homeschooled kids would compete, especially at the upper level in high school.
I have never met a parent equipped to teach A.P Chemistry, A.P Physics, etc… While I know there are support groups available for homeschooled kids, the question then becomes, are they really being homeschooled at that point?
I have met parents who are equipped to teach those subjects, and do so. Regarding whether those students are then considered homeschooled, that is part of the misunderstanding regarding homeschoolers. Homeschooling does not mean having to stay at home, sitting around the kitchen table and learning all subjects there. (Although some certainly do that). I see myself more as a facilitator, organizing my children’s education, and helping them become self directed learners. It is an alternative way to learn, but with the Internet, you tube, Amazon, etc, there are so many more opportunities, rather than a 9-3 in a brick and mortar facility.
Ms. Ravitch, I get that you’re trying to make a point here. I would rather not have seen you throw homeschooling under the bus, however, or label us “fringe.”
You’d make a better argument talking about conservative push to send mothers out of the workforce and restricting their purview to their homes, to limit the possibilities of half the population, to reduce the household incomes of millions of families, you know, the general assault on women’s autonomy and freedoms we frequently hear from some segments of society.
It’s not great that you added here to prejudices of choices some women and families make.
There is no evidence homeschooling outcomes produce better results. And we have very solid evidence that students in private schools do worse that public school students, when controlling for parent income. We also know charters are nothing special, which is supported by plenty of evidence.
Ben Carson said otherwise.
Maybe you should talk to Ben Carson about making lying and deceiving, which is especially frightful as the ‘Christian’ audience looks on and applauds his lies.
In fact, I though Dr. Ravitch stayed neutral in her comment.
“a step beyond rational” does not come across as neutral, but rather insulting.
I don’t like being in the position of defending homeschooling, but that’s simply not true. There is actually plenty of evidence that homeschoolers perform well on college boards and in college acceptance rates, unfortunately far better than public schools. There are plenty of other factors that come into play, but to say there’s no evidence is grossly inaccurate.
I also don’t care to defend Dr. Carson, but your abeling him a liar when he may honestly and earnestly believe whatever statistics he’s seen says more about your presumptions than his, particularly the ones about his “Christian” audience.
Since you seem concerned about the frightfulness that accompanies lying, I’d be interested in which candidate(s) you find to be honest.
Tribucks, would you care to provide links to the evidence that homeschoolers do better on college entrance tests and acceptance rates. You say there’s “plenty” so that should not be a difficult request to fulfill. And by the way, which colleges and universities are we talking about here?
Sharon, you can google it and find lots of evidence and stories of successful homeschoolers. You can also google and find evidence of negativity regarding homeschooling. It depends on what which position you want to support. I truly wish that more educated adults on this blog would have a more open mind regarding the education of children. Homeschooling can be great. Public school can be great. Private school can be great. Homeschooling can be bad. Public school can be bad. Private school can be bad.
Sharon – It’s not difficult; in fact, you can do it yourself very easily as Beth suggested. Google “homeschool college acceptance rate” or whatever phrase you want and find just what I said: “plenty of evidence” rather than what Jim said, which was “no evidence.” Some of it I treat skeptically, like the links provided by pro-homeschool groups. Others I give more credence, like US News, CBS, or the actual SAT/ACT scores themselves. I’ve got no dog in the fight.
As for the colleges, same thing goes: you can find the info at crappy colleges nobody’s heard of or you can find it at Ivies. You’re going to believe what you want anyway. I don’t, and wouldn’t, homeschool. But I don’t dismiss it out of hand or claim there’s “no evidence” like Jim did.
Tribucks and Beth – it’s not other people’s job to do your homework for you. You are making claims about the relative success of homeschooling vs. public school. It’s up to you to provide the evidence.
Thank you, Dienne, I was going to post the same response.
It’s very bad form to make vague claims and then, when challenged to produce evidence, tell the challenger to “go look it up yourself”.
BTW, basing claims on a CBS or a USA Today report fails to convince me that homeschoolers are doing better on average than students educated in public or private schools when we are talking about test scores, college acceptance rates, or college performance.
A reminder: the plural of anecdotes is NOT data.
Dienne and Sharon – The reason I did it that way was because people believe only what they want to believe. I have no idea what sources you’d accept as valid and which you’d assail with, “Oh, sure…of course they’d say that. Look at who they are.”
No, it’s not *your* homework to prove *my* point, but rather than my listing multiple links from a wide array of viewpoints hoping you’d accept any of them, your reluctance to spend 5 seconds Googling a phrase suggests to me that you don’t really want the answer. You wouldn’t even have to read the articles; you’d only have to see how many hits you get and where they’re from. The Googling itself IS the link.
One of my nieces was home schooled. The curriculum came right from the church this child and mother (sister-in-law) attended. I looked at the materials whenever I could over the years, and felt very SAD for this niece. The textbooks were biased, the workbooks well … skill and drill … plus in my opionion the lessons were biased and narrow. Oh well … sure didn’t want to meddle, so I said nothing, and just sent books, a chemistry set, math manipulatives, and other hands-on materials, which I thought would expand this niece’s background of knowledge of experiences. Unfortunately, what I send were considered UNNECESSARY and NOT THE BASICS.
To end with your statement, Diane, ” It is one thing to have dubious ideas about how to educate our children, but it is a step beyond rational to suggest that most should be educated by their parents at home. Many parents are ill-equipped to teach their children much beyond the basics; they are surely not masters of algebra, geometry, calculus, and modern science and world history.
In my niece’s case, your statement is more than true.
Carson’s main goal is to speak softly and not be very clear about anything….people love that. As nearly as I can sense…..he will lose the nomination to Donald Trump, accept the VP nomination, arrange to have Trump shot in February of 2017, and be softly reassuring to the nation as he commences stealing money from social security to make the top 1% more comfortable. He will ask Arne Duncan to return to his job as secretary of education.
Sounds like a great movie plot.
You would not believe the one I have for Peter Herschend…24 years on the Missouri state board of ed, mostly as president, and former state commissioner Nicastro………I have a heavy metal drummer/journalist from Germany named Neudi in mind to help me with the opening music.
glad you realized I was just joking….should not joke about gun stuff.
I am from a very, almost radical, republican conservative family.
The more of I see of their homeschooled kids, the more and more suspicious I’ve become. And BTW, the parents are intelligent, college-educated (one with a Master’s) people.
Especially for the boys. There’s something about keeping little boys cooped up with their mothers (and sisters in two situations in my families) that is not working for the homeschooled in my families. The boys have experienced disaster being homeschooled and now are grown.
They are still a disaster.
If the public school would do what they are supposed to do ..there will be less homeschooling I am sure .Since CC , more families “homeschoole” What is their other choice ?
NiSource in Ohio refuses to hire homeschooled workers and actually rescinded an offer. This is likely to be a case of evangelical Republicans versus business Republicans. Companies don’t care about religion, ideology, and if Adam walked with dinosaurs. Their belief system is the Dollar Deity.
I was shopping at the local Costco yesterday and stopped by the book section where I saw a book with Trump’s mug on the cover and his claim that he would make American great again.
There was a man close to my age looking at the same books. I said, “I didn’t know America had lost its position. We still are the wealthiest nation on the planet and still have the largest and most powerful military in the world. We also have more billionaires than any other country.”
The other guy said, “What’s frightening is the number of people in America who actually believe these two ignorant fools and want to vote for them.”
A friend of mine in Oregon calls “home-schooling” “no-schooling” based on the ignorance of her friends’ home-schooled children.
I’ll say it. Ben Carson is an idiot.
yes….but he speaks softly….have you ever heard him raise his voice in anger toward even one of the social security recipients he plans to have cut off from their monthly income?
For someone that is so accomplished, Ben Carson has some outrageous ideas. He demonstrates little understanding of what the “common man” faces in our country. Home schooling is not practical for most American families. I am reminded of an interview with Ron Paul in which he stated we don’t need Medicare because we should return to the days when “neighbors looked in on neighbors.” It’s a lovely sentiment, but totally out of touch with reality. I am afraid that Ben Carson has no concept of what is needed to move our nation forward. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/11/15/top-10-quotes-that-prove-neurosurgeon-ben-carson-doesnt-have-the-brain-to-be-president/
Even worse, he is “hesitant” about vaccinations. He’s a doctor!!!!
http://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2015/09/17/two-doctors-running-for-president-dont-understand-medicines-most-important-advance/
Setting aside my quite significant reservations about homeschooling, is Dr. Carson suggesting that we need to increase wages, benefits and other workplace policies so that families can afford to have one parent at home to do this homeschooling?
For many, and obviously not all, it is all about choices. How much does it cost for both parents to commute to work, afford work clothing, child care, eating out, vacations every year, toys, etc . . . Many more people could afford to homeschool if they made different choices, lived a simpler life, were not excessive consumers. Please realize I am not referring to all . . .
Whatever savings there might be from commuting costs, child care, etc. would probably get eaten up by the costs of homeschooling. It’s not free, y’know. At least, not if you do it right.
It is not as expensive as you think. All one truly needs is internet connection and access to a library.
And that is also an assumption, that costs would probably get eaten up.
Though homeschooling may be an easy target, what’s happening with elementary schools is also an easy target. Longer school days, more test prep, less recess, etc. There are negative attributes about current public schools as well as negative attributes about homeschooling – neither is perfect.
Also, people are mentioning parents aren’t qualified to homeschool AP Chemistry and what not. Elementary schools are different – a “qualified” parent could teach their child basic math or spelling, no problem.
Matt, parents should be able to teach the three Rs, but not Common Core math. I saw a Common Core test question yesterday where a third grade student was asked to write an equation for 15. He wrote 5 + 5+ 5. The teacher marked it wrong. The correct answer was 3+3+3+3+3.
Why? I don’t know.
Yes, but I don’t believe homeschoolers are required to use Common Core, right? They don’t have to take the standardized tests, do they? Which I have to conceded is a point in favor of homeschooling.
Each state has its own requirements regarding homeschooling oversight. Many states do require some sort of yearly assessment, whether it’s a portfolio of completed projects, or standardized tests. Many homeschoolers do take the SATs as well.
Dionne, most state require achievement be proven by either a state test or an approved norm referenced individualized achievement test conducted by an approved third party.
Apparently not in Texas: http://www.alternet.org/belief/christian-couple-sue-right-keep-their-kids-uneducated-they-await-rapture
The state didn’t even know about these people until the oldest kid tried to get an education.
Wow, here in NY and its surrounding states, various state education departments are very strict as per home schooling. When I was a test coordinator in my school, we often had home school students take the state test because to hire a psychologist or a learning specialist to administer an achievement test was obviously expensive. Even before the advent of the Common Core, these students did far worse than the students in my school. I often looked over their assessments when the test were over, and their lack of even basic skills were glaring. Most were children of Christian or Muslim fundamentalists. These students were so frustrated taking the standardized tests. One never even took a bubble test and had to be taught how to fill in the grid. In addition, when placed in classes to take the assessments, they appeared very nervous around so many children. Home school parents forget another purpose of school, any school, and that is the development of positive social skills. Also, the ability to get along with ALL people. Between the Moskowitz’ incident and Carson, it is clearly coming out that their supporters are not educational reformers but reactionaries. Once, about a couple of centuries ago, most Americans were home schooled and maybe the literacy rate was, at most, 40% to 50% of our population. About a half a century ago, even public schools were allowed to exclude students permanently and most of our disabled population received no education. I have a radical right wing family member who often states that when he was in elementary school there were no learning disabled students. He was right. There were none. They were all home, segregated, excluded, and denied a basic human right–education.
Utah doesn’t require any kind of assessments for homeschoolers, either. That’s how two families in my neighborhood “homeschooled” their kids, while the kids wandered the neighborhood at all hours and never seemed to be home to actually receive schooling. At least one of the children can barely read.
Threatened – yes, Utah and Nevada are notorious about no homeschooling regulations. That’s how the FLDS is about to get away with sequestering and abusing their children such that so many girls end up pregnant before they’re 16.
There was a good article in the Wash Po this morning (sorry, I can’t post the link) about a venture capitalist, Ted Dintersmith, and his search for the purpose of school. When you read the questions he poses, it may give you an idea why many do choose to homeschool (although he did not mention homeschooling).
Where might you find the purpose of public education?
It’s widely available.
Now you referenced “the purpose of school” so that may be different than that for public education.
I was summing up the article, where Ted Dintersmith asks what is the purpose of school? I did not ask where to find the purpose of public education! Maybe I am missing the point of your comment?
I thought it was a good article . . . maybe someone else can share the link?
I wasn’t sure if you were referring to the purpose of schooling, which can have many purposes, or to the purpose of public education which, in essences has the purpose delineated in the state’s constitution.
It was a very good read. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/11/03/a-venture-capitalist-searches-for-the-purpose-of-school-heres-what-he-found/
I was referring to the content of the article. Have you had a chance to read it?
Everyone thinks they know best how to “fix” education….you needn’t be knowledgeable about education to tell anyone who will listen that you have the answer. This is especially disheartening when you consider that Bush didn’t come up with “No Child Left Behind” …his “education experts” developed it; same for “Race to the Top,” I seriously doubt that Barrack Obama spent his evenings developing this approach or Common Core for that matter….all the products of “education experts” in government. Reminds me that one of my college professors defined “expert” as: “x” is the unknown quantity, and a “spurt” is a drip under pressure.
His home school neurosurgery program must have been amazing.
Thank you Dr. Ravitch to inform the forum about the promotion of homeschooling from a presidential candidate, a surgeon = expertise = X + spurt = unknown HAVOC, hahaha.
Thank you Tom for the beautiful definition of expert.
Thank you Dienne to remind the “”lip service”” from all presidential candidates about the reality of the outsourced working condition or moving factories to oversea.
To all parents who are able to provide their children with homeschooling:
PRIVATE SCHOOL is different from PUBLIC EDUCATION.
Please be conscientious about HOMESCHOOLING, parents and learners need to have:
TIME
MONEY
SKILLS
KNOWLEDGE
SELF-DISCIPLINE
LEARNING PASSION
SUPREME DRIVEN RESULT
As versus to:
According to Susan Tran, a new elementary teacher, PUBLIC EDUCATION aims to create WELL-ROUNDED students, the wonderful, creative, and inspired individuals who are FUNCTIONAL CITIZENS in order to contribute CIVILITY and HUMANITY in society.
Historically, all dictators and movers/shakers on Earth are very smart with terrorized technique and manipulation of people’s gullibility.They all end up with suicidal (Hitler), or Alzheimer (politicians?), terminal illness like cancer, heart attack, stroke… ( EVIL rich people, VILE policy adviser expert!)
True educators are intelligent enough to pursue their God’s calling in teaching career so that they can motivate and inspire young learners to truly live and breathe in a creative and meaningful life.That differentiates parents from TRUE educators, private/home school from PUBLIC EDUCATION.
In conclusion, INTERACTION, APPRECIATION and RESPECT OF THE DIFFERENCES are the KEY to live in civilized, peaceful and harmonious society. Back2basic.
Do you homeschool? Just curious where you are getting your information.
I homeschool my children because they were not getting even basic academics at our public school. My youngest daughter couldn’t add single digit numbers or write a simple sentence by the end of first grade. My 5th grader couldn’t write a cohesive paragraph, read at grade level, or give simple facts about geography or history.
When they cancelled “spelling” at the school, I knew it was time to teach my kids at home with a traditional curriculum. It has been the best decision we have made as a family and our girls are doing great. They get plenty of socialization by playing on their soccer teams and going on field trips with our homeschool group.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/30/home-schooling-outstanding-results-national-tests/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/can-homeschoolers-do-well-in-college/
http://www.indiana.edu/~homeeduc/three_crucial_points.html
For all the commenters here with an “I have a negative story of homeschoolers I know,” there are just as many, if not more, stories of “I have a negative story related to school.” I would hope that more of you would keep an open mind and perhaps be interested in finding out how home educating can be a positive experience for children.
I have seen positive and negative examples of children who have been homeschooled. It’s just that the negative examples I have seen have been far more numerous than the positive examples. I’m in a state that heavily support homeschool, so I’ve seen a lot of students that have been homeschooled.
Thank you for replying. What kind of negative examples? Behind academically? Would they have been behind if they had been public schooled anyway? That’s hard to determine . . .
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53702939-78/parents-education-public-students.html.csp
For every negative homeschool story, there is a negative public school story. Look at the video of the student who attacted his teacher in Paterson, NJ last week. (Sorry, I can’t post links)
No, it really isn’t a one-for-one. There are vastly more kids in public school – it would take an awful lot of single incidents to make an equal comparison with something like the FLDS fiasco.
Also, while certainly not every homeschooler is an FLDS-type nutcase, homeschooling is uniquely suited to those types who want to abuse and indoctrinate their kids without the authorities interfering, at least in states like Utah, Nevada and Texas where there are no rules or oversight. There’s nothing comparable in public schools – there are too many people involved for them to be able to get away with that kind of control.
Dienne, that is a truly sweeping generalization, and pretty offensive to me. You don’t know me. How could you assume that I, and others who homeschool, do so because we are suited to abuse and indoctrinate our children? I was hoping there could be a civilized conversation regarding positive aspects of homeschooling. A chance to refute myths about homeschooling. Sadly, I see that is not the case.
How much learning would you say is going on in this classroom? Probably quite a lot. These kids are learning that it is ok to disrespect an adult/authority figure. They are learning that violence is an acceptable option. If this is what you would like to call learning “social skills” then I’d rather not have my children be exposed to that methodology. This is only one reason I choose to homeschool. We, as parents, understand that the responsibility to raise our children is ours not a school where the student to teacher ratio is astoundingly high and they learn more from friends than their actual teachers. More is caught than taught and so we have made the decision that we will make life work on one income. We forgo the things we would like to have so that our kids have the opportunities they need to be successful. I strongly believe that everyone should have the choice they believe is best for their family but to label homeschoolers negatively based on your perceived expectations to fill in a bubble sheet is a bit extreme. I can’t even remember ever needing to fill out a bubble sheet for a job.
My support for parents’ choice to homeschool (and I do support that right) ends when the parents or homeschooling associations demand equal access to school programs such as sports, clubs, etc.
Keeping your children home is your choice, and your choice costs my district in loss of state aid. You can’t have it both ways, sorry.
Schools are public buildings. if schools are for academics, why shouldn’t homeschoolers be allowed to participate in after school sports or clubs?
Well, for one thing (besides the fact the homeschooling families are not contributing equally to the school budget) are the attendance and grade eligibility requirements for interscholastic sports and some clubs (robotics teams, etc.).
Access to the building for homeschooler groups under the same conditions for those of other community groups, I’m fine with that however.
We pay the same property tax as everyone else. Sports are used as a carrot stick to keep behaviors and grades in check. Sports should be separate from academics and made to be community organized, so all children have the same opportunities.
Like I said, there’s the funding piece. Schools do not receive the per-pupil aid for a child who is homeschooled, and at least in NYS where regulations are in place, the districts with their already-stretched-to-the-max budget must devote staff time and resources on monitoring homeschooling as it is. I do not accept the “but state aid is my taxes too” or the “money should follow the child” argument. It’s pure selfishness, IMO.
However, I can think of another good reason why schools are not receptive to allowing homeschoolers to play sports. Liability. A child not formally enrolled will not be covered under the school’s insurance.
Good luck convincing the typical school that sports should be truly extra-curricular. That’s just not going to happen. But, even if this were accomplished, guess what? When programs become “pay-to-play” FEWER students have access to those programs at the competitive, interscholastic level.
We still pay the same taxes that fund public schools. There are currently 22 states that give homeschoolers some type of access to classes or sports. In Virginia, a private organization (Virginia High School League) determines who is allowed to play, because they determine the rules. A bill has been introduced to allow the decision to be up to the local school boards rather than a private organization. This past year, this bill, nicknamed the Tebow Bill, passed both houses of the state congress. The governor vetoed it a month later. Funny, where you say you see it as pure selfishness, to me I see your arguments as pure selfishness. Are they truly in support of all children, or a select group of children?
After yesterday’s parent-teacher conference, I’m half-considering home schooling now myself.
Go for it!
For those requesting evidence and statistics, sometimes homeschooling success can he difficult to quantify. Many choose homeschooling because they do not want their children endlessly compared to others. It is a path of individualized learning, and not standardization. Getting top notch grades, high SAT scores, getting into an Ivy league college, those are not necessarily the things that all homeschoolers are looking for.
There are common ways of teaching, but every child learns in their own way. Why can’t we have varied ways of education. Home school, public, charter, private, and vouchers are all choices parents can make. there should be room for all providing they are done right. Each one has their strong points and weak points. States should set standards for graduation and let each develop their own way of getting there. Transparency in funding is important to make sure there is no corruption. It can be done if all special interests are taken away and have children be the special interest. We live in a democracy, why can’t we have a choice?
Very interesting that he thinks private schools are better. According to his biography, he excelled at a private school in Boston (4th grade). When he returned to Detroit, he attended a public school and discovered that he knew nothing at all and was the “dumbest kid in 5th grade.” It was only at this point that his mother understood the situation and made him read and turn off the TV. Thankfully the public school was able to provide a reality check.
Let this man spin his own fantasy based on his biblical worldview until he snaps out of it.
So you support public ed, the system which then produces people who aren’t qualified to teach the skills taught in public ed to others? So, is public ed effective or not? I’m confused.
REYNOLDS,
Yes, I support public education, the American democratic school system.
I am a graduate of public schools. So was John Lewis.
Not a bad record for starters.
mjrreynolds, you are either a Trumpish, DeVos Troll, a Russian Troll, or incredibly ignorant.
Starting after World War II in 1945, the public schools made America greater than the country had ever been before and that run of success lasted for the rest of the 20th century. For almost 40 years after WWII, the nation was on track toward true greatness. If the Civil Rights Movement had succeeded and labor unions not retreated under relentless assaults from billionaires like the Walmart Walton family, neoliberals, neoconservatives, and libertarians, this country would have become the greatest country in history.
Did you know that in 1900, forty percent of Americans lived in poverty?
Did you know that in 1900, only 7 percent of Americans graduated from high school and 3 percent from college and most of them were white and male?
Along with that poverty and lack of education, the average life expectancy for an American in 1900, was 48.19 years. During the age of progressivism, life expectancy improved dramatically to almost 80 years.
But no more. WIth Reagon and the two Bushes piss-on-the-working-class economics and Trumpism, “Life expectancy in the US keeps going down, and a new study says America’s worsening inequality could be to blame”
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-life-expectancy-declined-for-third-year-in-a-row-2019-11
Between 1900 and 1981, progressivism (what ignorant idiots on the right call libtards and liberals), gave us Social Security and Medicare, the birth of labor unions, built the best medical system in the world (before Reagon and Republicans destroyed that, too), built the airports, the bridges and highway system that spans, moves and feeds America today. The electric grid was also built, and under President Clinton, the internet was born.
The nation’s public school system as we know it was mostly built after World War II, and the Greatest Generation this country has ever known and their children used what they learned from their public educations to build the America that is now dying thanks to the GOP and Trump’s supporters.
After World War II, many of the troops that won that war took advantage of the GI Bill and went to college while their children, my generation, went to public schools and then college and continued to build the American that Reagon, the Bushes, and Trump have done all they can to destroy and dismantle.
That was the public school system you are bashing.
The infrastructure build by progressives and Americans that were educated by the U.S. public education system between 1945 and 2000 has been neglected. The electric grid is now a 100 years old and most of the world has better electric grids than America does. Our internet system is slower and more costly than most of the world. China has 35,000 miles of high-speed rail. The EU is building a high rail system that will have more than a million miles in a couple of decades. The U.S. has less than 400 miles of high-speed rail and it doesn’t’ look like the money will be there to build much more thanks to low taxes and a national debt that is growing on steroids.
The decline of the United States was started by Republicans in 1981 with the election of President Ronald Reagan, his Trickle Down Economics and tax cuts that launched the greatest national debt ever, and a flawed and misleading report called “A Nation at Risk” that attacked the very public education system that was responsible for educating the Greatest Generation of Americans ever and their children.
Then along came President G. W. Bush’s NCLB, Obama’s Race to the Top, and Bill Gates Common Core Crap that were like nails pounded in a coffin built to bury the United States public education system once and forever.
Now that TrumpEekThinlySkin is leading America onto the wreck and ruin like a malignant dictator with help from monsters like Betsy the Brutal DeVos and William Barr (and YOU) doing all they can to pound in the final nails, we are all but doomed.