In response to an article that showed the intense, competitive, and abusive practices at Success Academy charter schools that produce high test scores, the New York Times printed a series of statements by parents about their experiences with the schools. The letters, with their sharply divided opinions, actually reinforced the findings of the original article: the schools get high test scores, but they get those high scores in ways that many parents can’t abide. Another point: SA schools are not a good place for students with disabilities or emotional fragility.

All the parents profiled appear to be Latino. Is this a reflection of the lack of African-Americans at Success Academy? Does NY State report on the racial make up of the charters?
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Yes, go here for the data: http://data.nysed.gov/
You can look at the data for any school in New York State, including the charters.
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what a weird question?
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If these schools aren’t a good place for all public students then they aren’t a good place for public dollars!
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TAGO!
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And yet we fund the racist and classist G&T programs. Hmmmm.
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Eric,
What is a G&T Program?
TIA,
Duane
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Gifted and Talented
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In the original NY Times article, I was very much interested in this selling point that was made about SA:
“Success Academy schools are also rich in the kind of extracurricular activities that have increasingly been cut from public schools, such as art, music, chess, theater, dance, basketball and swimming.”
It seem to be a pitch at demonstrating some balance in the curriculum compared to the demonstrated emphasis on standardized testing. I am struck that the parents who speak in favor of SA don’t seem to mention these extracurriculars. It makes me think that it is all lip service on the part of SA.
These activities (the extracurriculars) all represent development of social and emotional growth, and of social capital. Students learn to work together, learn how to present themselves in public and to engage the public, and learn to consider various alternative definitions of success.
If SA can’t demonstrate credible extracurricular programs, then I think of these charters in the apparent tradition Japanese cram schools, and I don’t think that style of education is necessarily a good fit for the U.S.
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I find it hard to relate to your comment. If what you are saying is, SA provides not only test-prep/ good scores, but also all kinds of extracurricular goodies like
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sorry, … like arts, music, chess etc– in other words: if SA can provide not only test-prep/ high-test scores, but also all kinds of extracurricular stuff..
I think the point we’re trying to approach here: If a private outfit can siphon off say,2/3 the taxpayer cost per pupil— without having to pay for the building/ facility– & take this 2/3 per-pupil cost to create an oh-so-merveilieuse education == the educational result will be… about 2/3 the result of what you would have with the public schools..
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bethree5,
Your math doesn’t add up. Is it that “new” Singapore math. Please explain better.
Thanks,
Duane
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I find it sad to read that these parents think that the “great” things happening at SA like coming home with interesting science facts, being able to write complete thoughts, and reading to their parents would not happen at a public school. It is yet another illustration of how pervasive the mantra of the failing public school has become.
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It’s called MARKETING! Gross.
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Look at the occupations of the parents (lawyer, psychotherapist etc.). That says it all for me.
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You’re right. Most of the parents are Latino professionals. It is definitely not the same population as the public schools. This is a “survival of the fittest” place.
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So, SA Upper West Side is now another choice for upper-middle class, professional parents who don’t want to pay for private school, move to the suburbs, and couldn’t secure a seat at Anderson or Lab for their kid…but wants to ensure their child is “protected” from the “undesirables” at the local school. If this network is allowed to continue to expand into middle class areas, the local schools still considered “good” will be completely destroyed.
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But Success doesn’t have any responsibility or duty to those schools or those kids. They are privately-run.
Failing to consider the effects system-wide isn’t a failure of charter leaders. They’re not elected and they’re not accountable for what happens to the public schools.
It’s a failure of government. That’s their job.
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It’s not considered a failure because it’s seen as a FEATURE of charter schools. It’s government sponsored favoritism and segregation.
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If this is a feature of charter schools, then charter schools shouldn’t get public money.
But that, of course, is on the government, too. The refusal to regulate charter schools is on the legislators and other government entities.
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So the word “charter” is a euphemism for “segregated.” Shouldn’t we just call them segregated schools? That might be an eye-opener.
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No, that would be the racist, G&T programs.
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I thank all of you for your comments.
Veteran teacher: you got right to the heart of the matter—“It’s not considered a failure because it’s seen as a FEATURE of charter schools. It’s government sponsored favoritism and segregation.”
Keep writing, y’all, I’ll keep reading.
😎
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@Renee. Yes, this is exactly what is going on. Those “undesirables” of course are poor kids of color, those children whom Success Academy claims they want to help.
Thankfully, resistance to SA in middle class neighborhoods is growing. Recently, they were prevented from opening new schools in Districts 2 and 3.
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Just like how Tisch had the first and last word in the “debate” with Diane on Chris Hayes, the article started and ended with pro-SA parents. More examples of favoritism.
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Yeah, except the Upper West SA school _is_ extremely racially and economically diverse. Far more so than MSC or any G&T program on the upper west side. This is just reality, and to accuse SA of racism of any sort is swiftboating at its best.
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The parents that use SA are not quite wealthy enough to pay for a private school, but they want their children to be protected from “those others” and they want their children to have a chance to make it into the best high schools of the very competitive world of the NYC school system.
I don’t blame them for wanting something better for their own children. However, it is a shame that their desire to help their own child has to exact such a heavy price on the children left in underfunded and crumbling public schools.
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…but didn’t NONE of the SA 8th graders get accepted to “select” high schools?
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Exactly!
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The vast majority of Success students (~95%) are either black or Latino, and the vast majority of Success students (~85%) qualify for free or reduced-price lunch. Most of those black and Latino students are zoned for “apartheid schools” — schools where there are tiny numbers (sometimes zero) of white or Asian students. Private school is not an option for almost all of these families, nor is moving into the zone of a school like PS 321, where the annual rent on a tiny studio apartment is close to the same amount as the median annual household income in New York City.
I think the most telling parent testimonial was the one from the lawyer whose kids are absolutely miserable at Success schools (and I do hope that he is documenting everything and forwards it to Success’s authorizer) but who is keeping them in the school as the family explores other options. His zoned school, or whatever school the DOE would put them in in a late-year transfer, is just that bad. Many people involved in the debate about charter schools are in denial about this.
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What a crock. SA has been expanding into gentrifying and higher income areas and SA Upper West has 29% low income, with the largest population there being white, at 41%.
http://data.nysed.gov/enrollment.php?year=2014&instid=800000070184
If this poor lawyer wants to send his kids to a school in the same area as Harlem 3 and he thinks ratings by test scores are the best indicators of a decent school, there are several public schools which meet the criteria in that area:
http://www.zillow.com/new-york-ny-10029/schools/
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Funny you label “apartheid schools” for making a dubious attribution to the spectacle of Slave Academy environment. Kind of like saying even such condition is a lame excuse because these students are deemed inferior, from EVAluation standpoint. Thanks to politicians and opportunists who are skimming the cream off the top from EVAerlasting socioCUOMOnic educational apartheid in NYC.
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The irony in Victorino Verboten’s ignoring the cumulative enrollment at all 32 Success schools to focus on the three that enroll larger numbers of white students and students who aren’t economically at risk is that those three schools are among the most diverse in the city.
The list of schools you provided contains mostly exam, charter, and lottery schools–no help in this situation. It appears as if this parent is zoned for a school that is so bad, he’d rather have his kids continue to suffer at Success rather than send them there.
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Tim, when I went to junior school in the 70’s in the Bronx the school was very diverse. What was not diverse was the individual classes. The “Enriched Program” classes and “Special Progress” classes were almost exclusively white. Kids were placed into these programs based on their 6th Grade reading and math scores. Then” regular classes” were then tracked 1-12 (7-1, 7-2, etc.) As the #’s of the classes went up, the # of white kids went down.
Once schools started doing away with tracking, white parents whose kids didn’t place into a class that had a majority of white kids, either opted for private/parochial school or moved to a whiter neighborhood.
When the population of school-aged children declined-especially among middle-class families, there were schools that were situated (and still are) in predominantly white neighborhoods but vastly underutilized by neighborhood children, while children from out of the zone were bussed in to alleviate overcrowding in schools in those zones.
The influx of children from poorer districts, coupled with the disbanding of ability grouping further accelerated the segregated state of the NYC public schools.
While SA Upper West Side may be more ethnically diverse, there is a relatively small percentage of children qualifying for free lunch there, and what is very clear from parents’ comments, there is no tolerance for any kind of learning diversity-pass those tests, or you’re out. Public schools cannot do that. The sad thing is, what parents are trying to shield their kids from are not bad teachers or schools-but from children with academic and behavioral problems – most of them poor-that current laws and constraints prevent the public school system from addressing adequately.
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Tim, the problem is that Success Academy is starting to look a bit like apartheid schools because even in the same school district, the schools are very different. Why?
There are 3 Success Academy schools in District 3 — and lottery priority is supposed to be given to District 3 residents, period. But Harlem Success Academy 1 is 2% white, 83% low-income students, and suspended 23% of its students at least once in 2012-13, the last year that suspension rates are reported. Harlem Success Academy 4 is 2% white, 77% low income students, and 20% of the students were suspended at least once in 2012-13. But the third Success Academy in District 3 is Success Academy Upper West. At UWSA, 41% of the students are white and only 29% of the students are low-income. And only 4% of the students at UWSA get suspensions.
Many of the NY Times comments from parents were from the parents who sent their kids to the Success Academy schools — often UWSA – that were far more affluent than the one profiled in the article. They claim that their school is nothing like the one the NY Times described. I’m sure they are telling the truth, but what does that say about the schools? Are they run differently if the students are wealthier? And does that mean more low-income students leave and more high income students stay? If that is the case, isn’t that a problem for a charter school that is supposed to be serving at-risk students?
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As usual, Tim presents his interpretation as if it is THE truth, when it is not what the parent actually said. (Reread the article and see for yourselves,) So, once again, note his personal bias for charters and prejudice against public schools, and be sure to take his opinions with heaping spoons of salt.
Typically, I skip right past whatever this guy writes because it’s so predictable, but what others have said in this thread was so compelling, I decided to make an exception. Big mistake. Nothing new to see here, folks. Save your life a few precious minutes that you’ll never get back and ignore the trolls advocating for corporate “reform,” who could care less that charters chains like this are broadening their tentacles in order to appeal to higher income families, so they can skim the students who are most likely to have the highest test scores in their quest to destroy public education.
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I’m not sure at what other interpretation one could arrive, Teacher Ed. Would you keep a child with a serious health condition in a school that was seemingly not only neglecting the child’s condition, but actively making it worse?
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If Tim took off the rose colored glasses, he might be able to improve his close reading skills and see that the father never said anything about his district schools or why he wanted his kids to finish out the year at SA before transferring them out of there, but that’s not possible because of the know-it-all attitude and hate for alternatives that are not charters.
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Other Spaces, what is your explanation for why this parent is subjecting his children to at least two more months’ worth of maltreatment by their current school?
My children attend traditional district NYC DOE public schools. Why would someone who hates non-charter schools make such a choice?
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Parents’ choice of schools is not always about just their kids. I’ve interviewed a lot of parents about their selection of schools and most chose and struck with the school that was the most convenient for them. A lot of parents saw the school they chose as problematic but “good enough,” because convenience was an over-riding factor that outweighed many negatives, including school disciplinary practices they disagreed with but were somehow able to reconcile.
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I am shocked that classroom newsletters include academic information about specific children!
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Charter schools play fast and loose with the almost all regulations, that’s for sure, except of course when they concern any required funding or services from the district schools.
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The most remarkable thing about the parents’ stories is how clearly they show that SA’s high test scores are almost certainly due to the way it pushes out low achievers. If you make life miserable for anyone who can’t do well on tests, those kids will leave, and then your test scores will look great. That’s a strategy that might work for a few schools, but it couldn’t work system-wide, and it’s hardly evidence of quality education.
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Remember also that SAs get to grade their own tests. (at least I think that is what I’ve read)
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Yes, an SA teacher quoted last year referred to doing this, and also said that they had test prep materials that were better aligned to the tests than ever before.
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I am so disgusted that the New York Times published these statements. They finally got the nerve to do a real investigative piece on Success Academy and then they chicken out and publish these parent testimonials. Between their biased coverage of the opt-out movement and charter schools, there is something rotten going on behind the scenes at the New York Times.
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Wow, another NYT Times piece that barely matches up with my daily positive Success Academy experience and the experience of the children and families I interact with there every day. Now that SA has been so biasedly covered (the unhappy parents, the fired teachers given equal space as the vast majority of happy families and teachers, the dismissal of the strong academic results as “teaching to the test”). It is maddening as an SA parent to read negative and unfair coverage of the charter schools while the simple point that demand for charter schools is largely driven by the inadequacy and failure of the NYC public schools is glossed over. Perhaps the NYT can now move on to cover the NYC public schools and interviews with parents in Bed-Sty, the South Bronx and Washington Heights and families with special needs children. Perhaps this article could include data on cohort high school graduation rates and NYS test scores and interviews with the fired teachers (oops, take that back, the union prohibits firing of bad teachers paid with taxpayer dollars). Maybe the article could examine the services provided and compare the dollars spent per pupil on “general” education vs G&T programs and the diversity of the G&T (oops, take that back also, mostly whites and Asians there). The taxpayers and voters deserve to know more about the state of the public schools and what the detractors of charter schools are tirelessly working to defend.
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Eric,
Would you send your own children to a Success Academy school? How do you like the part where they pee in their pants during test prep? Do they do that at St. Bernard’s or Trinity? I don’t think so.
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My son attends a Success Academy school and there have been no reports from him of any pants peeing, by him or any other students. He loves it and is having a great experience and looks forward to school in the morning. It is diverse and the children are generally happy. Am sorry to have to contradict the 3rd hand, UFT, party line smear job, stories here. Bottom line: Our choices were this excellent charter school or a mediocre, gen ed, district school. Demand for charter schools is driven by the poor quality of most of the the non G&T, public schools. Please give my best regards to Joey.
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“Fiscal Policy Institute calls New York state the cause of failing schools”
http://blog.timesunion.com/schools/fiscal-policy-institute-calls-new-york-state-the-cause-of-failing-schools/3002/
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My son attends a Success Academy school and there have been no reports from him of any pants peeing, by him or any other students. He loves it and is having a great experience and looks forward to school in the morning. It is diverse and the children are generally happy. Am sorry to have to contradict the 3rd hand, UFT, party line smear job, stories here. Bottom line: Our choices were this excellent charter school or a mediocre, gen ed, district school. Demand for charter schools is driven by the poor quality of most of the the non G&T, public schools.
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Some comments from parents who disagree with the SA Upper West apologist can be seen here:
http://www.greatschools.org/new-york/new-york/13562-Success-Academy-Upper-West/reviews/
It’s just K-3 there now, so no tests scores are shown. Wait to hear from parents when their kids have been subjected to the real pressures of testing there year after year, like SA teachers who think their “test prep practices are inhuman:”
http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Success-Academy-Charter-Schools-Reviews-E381408.htm?sort.sortType=OR&sort.ascending=true
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