An AP teacher sent me the following letter. I don’t know the answer. Can anyone answer her question? Maybe not, maybe we are all in the dark. It does not seem beyond belief that Pearson and the College Board are closely collaborating. Is there more afoot than collaboration? Shouldn’t they be competitors?
Here is the communication I received:
“Hi Diane,
Just wanted to bring this to your attention. As a member of the AP English listserv, er, college board-monitored discussion board, I received this message yesterday. When I logged in to follow the discussion thread, it had been removed. If true, it is important information that AP teachers have not yet been informed about. Several AP teachers, from AP Biology to AP Language, noted that their students reported “weird” questions on the exams, which are similar to the comments that have been made about the Pearson 3-8 exams in New York.
“I can’t find any proof written anywhere except that when I registered this year for the AP National Conference in Las Vegas, I called AP central about a question I had because Pearson was communicating with me about needing a code or something to complete my application and the young man on the phone said “Oh Pearson is handling AP now and GED so you’ll have to call this number. He said the website etc. would remain on College Board but that it was really “a separate entity” now. I am anxious to hear what they have to say at the National Conference. I fear we are going to see a major change in philosophy and more alignment with Common Core. It’s hard to pin them down. They are sneaky about things. Almost Everything our school does now is governed by Pearson. We are mostly government funded–Navajo school but it is a trickle down process. What happens with us will eventually worm its way into every school. We are the guinea pigs. They are updating our internet connections this summer so that we have more room for all these tests that will be taught online. 3rd graders will be taught to type on the computer all their work so they can do the tests, as well as everyone else. They are practicing because eventually the tests will become the determiner for passing the kid on. They say in 2 years but they keep moving it up.
“The above is from a recent conversation on a literary-minded thread on LinkedIn. Can anyone speak to this matter of Pearson and the CollegeBoard as bedfellows to the extent that things may be changing, and not for the better? Heck, I wonder if I am wrong for even posting this thread here…”

If this is true, and I don’t know the answer to that, I again ask why the Department of Justice has not been alerted to this monopolizing. DOJ brought Ma Bell down, why not Pearson. SOMEONE or SOMETHING has to stop this bloodsucker. I sometimes wonder if I am still living in a country with a Constitution and laws.
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Sorry. Maybe it was the SEC. No matter. It all just needs to stop.
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They’re all in bed together frolicking in a big pile of money, laughing at our efforts to slow down the reform monster (cash cow).
This is a line from a Lou Reed song referencing the Viet Nam War:
“The Gooks were fierce and fearless, that’s the price you pay when you invade.”
The way I see it the corporate reform movement is nothing short of an invasion of the public schools. Will we be fierce and fearless?
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“Will we be fierce and fearless?”
Well, so far the vast majority of public school administrators and teachers have been Vichyesque GAGAers.
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That’s my worry.
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Actually, Deborah, it’s both the DOJ and Federal Trade Commission (FTC) that are supposed to be investigating violations of the Sherman Act, or antitrust law. It’s just not being enforced, as witness to the Too Big Too Fails….
Here’s a link to info on the Sherman Act:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Sherman+Anti-Trust+Act
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She mentions the GED, and it’s true that Pearson is now running that:
“Two years ago, the American Council on Education, the nonprofit group that has administered the G.E.D. exam for seven decades, joined a venture with Pearson, the publishing giant. As the new venture, GED Testing Service, announced plans to move the test entirely online and raise its prices, some states balked and invited other test developers to enter the market.
Randy Trask, president of GED Testing Service, said the price increase, raising the cost of the test to $120, would cover services like same-day scoring and detailed exam reports for students. GED Testing Service currently charges states $15 just for the text booklets, in addition to other fees. In New York, the state covers the students’ cost of the test, paying $60 to administer each exam; in Massachusetts, test takers pay $65 to take exams in five subject areas.”
Pearson immediately jacked up the price the moment the nonprofit became a wholly owned subsidiary.
“States balked” at this weird nonprofit/corporate monopoly merger according to the article and so now there are two other players in what we’ll call the “burgeoning GED sector” 🙂
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While I definitely recall reading an article suggesting Pearson purchased College Board, I cannot access the link. As for the monitored discussion board, most AP teachers discontinued using it when the format changed almost 2 years ago. Any idea shared now becomes intellectual property of the College board ( and by default, Pearson, if they indeed own CB).
http://www.pearsoned.com/pearson-supports-advanced-placement-summer-institute-training-for-teachers-2/#.UvYpK3-9KK0
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Here is a link about Pearson and the GED. http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local/the-latest/63311-new-version-of-ged-comes-in-with-the-new-year
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After Pearson bought the GED, the cost of taking the GED went up…a lot.
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Good ol capitalism at its best, take a non-profit and turn it into a for profit venture.
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I am a GED/ABE instructor in Bellingham, WA. I have begun to document the dire problems with this Pearson Vue GED test in an effort to organize a movement against this Pearson Vue GED test.
I am not getting alot of feedback from the area ABE/GED instructors and I think there are many reasons for this even though most of them do not like this test. The reasons may include some version of shame to admit the test is too hard and too hard for instructors to prepare for, that admitting to not wanting to go along with this test is some kind of betrayal to their students as if saying the students are too stupid to be able to do this test, fear of losing their job if they are not willingly compliant, too busy trying to accommodate the new test to take on a position of protest/resistance, fear of being exposed to their own sense of incompetence (a lingering feeling of failure for teachers in these times of demonization of teachers) and to the message from the corporate owned media that indeed, teachers are incompetent. All of the above for instructors of ABE/GED and more as this field has itself been demonized for years!
I have begun work with my union and to document the problems I see with the test. What else can I do? Is there a national group organized to resist this new GED test?
Can anyone out there help me!!!
Marcia Leister
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And what about Bill Gates connection to Pearson and this education monopoly?
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This is totally Orwellian – Pearson, Gates, Walmart… Can’t you see a world in which all children robotically march through Pearson’s curriculum on Gates’ computers, while one Teach For Americal flunkie oversees 100 kids to a class- there will be corporate advertising pumped into those i-pads which will send the children to Walmarts buying crap from China….they will sift and sort our children like wheat from chaff, and the social sciences, art, history – all will but disappear – they will train the workers they need to make more money – this is just the beginning….
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Great insight and I believe as you do. My daughter’s principal just informed me that she doubts any California district will ever order a textbook again: Everything bought in the future will be digital. Her school has pretty much phased out textbooks already and at my mom’s high school the district just got rid of over 4,000 books from the library. Even though the high school has just been built (3 weeks ago) I find it sad that the library is very small. Instead, there are numerous “student lounges” where kids go to hang out. No books…only internet connections and big pillows to lay on. I’m sick of the public schools and ready to homeschool.
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I think that the principle is likely correct. The advantages of digital texts are overwhelming. I understand the nostalgia for the older technology of books, but digital texts will be a better technology for learning.
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Mom of 5,
Re: “at my mom’s high school the district just got rid of over 4,000 books from the library.”
In case you were wondering…
They still have a traditional library at Lakeside (you know, the place Gates sends his children…) They have lovely pictures of it on line. Real books and all.
“The Pigott Memorial Library strives to be the intellectual center of the Lakeside School campus. The goal of the library is to implement, enrich, and support the educational programs of the school. We encourage students to take responsibility for learning, to become effective users of information, and to develop an appreciation for reading and libraries that will facilitate lifelong learning.”
Wow, Sidwell, too (Yep..the school good enough for the Obama children.)
“The Library’s current collection of books numbers over 20,000. Reference books are housed on the upper level of the Library while circulating books are housed on the lower level. A separate collection of books dedicated to the study of China is housed in the Zeidman Family Center for Chinese Studies on the lower level.”
Like Krazy TA says…other people’s children…..
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teachingeconomist
February 8, 2014 at 11:11 am
I think that the principle is likely correct. The advantages of digital texts are overwhelming. I understand the nostalgia for the older technology of books, but digital texts will be a better technology for learning /unquote
“nostalgia” = code word for “you’re so far behind the times clinging to the past…” to shut people up…
Technology terrorists like to promote the idea that any new technology is progress….but they never really get around to proving that theory.
I recall an attempt to use technology waaaay back in the 60s to teach subjects. It was a failure, so they withdrew it.
So…if you say that digital texts will be a better technology for learning…I say prove it. One size fits all does not fit children.
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As a heterodox poster here I certainly make no attempt to dilance the orthodox Folsom here, so my use of the word nostalgia was not an attempt to insult anyone.
Let’s take this a step at a time. Would you like me to weigh my son’s backpack and compare it to a digital reader?
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Such a foolish road…
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-reading-brain-in-the-digital-age-why-paper-still-beats-screens/
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I can see a use for digital textbooks. Perhaps a class set of hard copies at school and a digital copy to be used at home. Those textbooks are dense and inordinately heavy. However, it is actually easier with a hard copy to look up information, than to scroll through an online text.
And while I enjoy a digital book, it could never take the place of a hard copy – especially a picture book. Whereas University Libraries have a greater focus on technology than print materials, I think we do a dis service to our public school students by limiting their exposure to print media – such as books and magazines.
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My middle son calls printed text non searchable PDFs. Good search makes things easy to find. The issue right now is that pads are too expensive to have several with different works open at the same time. That will come.
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With a good index anything is possible. I find it easier to navigate chapters and indexes in print then on an iPad (and I love my iPad).
What the future holds is not relevant to what we need to accomplish today. We can always revise our opinion. For now, a combination of both serves our purposes, if the technology is available.
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Textbooks are overpriced, and technology for schools is way overpriced. The future no doubt is digital; however, currently the rush to digital garbage is breaking budgets.
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Oh yeah, I forgot the best part…she let me know that the reason I’m having a problem with all this is because “us older parents” have a difficult time with change and moving into the global 21st century.”
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“have a difficult time with change and moving into the global 21st century”
Yeah, that is one of the standard edubully answer to any objection raised.
Translation: You have a problem that you need to address. Everything is lovely here.
I think they have a bunch of those sort of non responses/ nonsense statements in a hat and just pull one put when questioned.
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“pull one out when questioned”
Some day I will learn how to type. Apparently, although I build and program computers, I have trouble with technology form the early 1800’s.
http://site.xavier.edu/polt/typewriters/tw-history.html
Guess I “don’t like change”?
;-
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It is not so much a question of hard copies or digital books, but of who controls the content. Actually, ebooks should make it easier for smaller publishers to come back on the scene and provide a variety of choices, if there were such a thing as choice–If we were not all under Common Control.
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If the issue is who controls the content, digital wins hands down. Producing and distributing digital content requires a computer and internet access. Producing and distributing printed work requires a printing press and a fleet of trucks. Digital is much much more open.
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Digital or print–it doesn’t matter– all content is the dominion a few publishers, and I fear it will soon be only Pearson. And why wouldn’t schools want Pearson content when that is what will be on the test and the test will be “high stakes”? And what will that even mean anymore. Coleman Core professes to emphasize critical thinking, but critical thinking is exactly what it is engineered to eradicate
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Related to this is the email that David Coleman sent out several months back about the woeful SAT scores over the past several years and the need to follow their lead. “Simply put, the College Board will go beyond simply delivering assessments to actually transforming the daily work that students are doing,” according to Coleman. It’s marketing folks, pure and simple. He’s hyping this in order to promote the Common Core mess and they will be happy to provide the materials to make the struggling minority students close that achievement gap.
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David Coleman, the ultimate snake-oil salesman.
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And, as I keep asking, who died and made David Coleman educational god?
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Our national union leaders died.
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the coleman. n. (weights and measures) A measure of the co-incidence of arrogance and ignorance
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And we have a winner!
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More insight into the profit-making off GED….
In Georgia, a vast majority of the GED tests are administered through the state-wide network of local technical colleges. Several months ago, the local technical colleges informed students that if they did not complete the passing of ALL segments of their GED exam process by the end of December, 2013, then any of the segments that they had passed would be void, and students would be required to begin the entire process over again–RE-PAYING, at a MUCH HIGHER COST, for what they had already at least “half-paid for” in the first place. For Georgia, my guess is that this “double charging” affected many, many students producing enormous ADDITIONAL PROFITS for Pearson!
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And these are the students who can least afford it…
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It’s the same situation in Pennsylvania.
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I don’t know about GED, but midyear California is changing course to prepare for SBAC test. Because of that my niece’s algebra I course is now being changed. The list of topics for algebra I is now cut 50%. Speaking of “rigor”. The second part now belongs in algebra II and their teacher with regret announced them that she is only going to teach very few topics as they now belong in algebra II and she is not supposed to teach them anymore. Instead the kids must to do stupid “enrichment” packets to keep them busy for the rest of the year. They also write essays about lives of great mathematicians in the middle ages.
So if algebra I is now called algebra II then what happens with the rest of the sequence?
My friend has her kids in elementary school. She says lately they completely stopped all the study and use the instruction time to learn typing…She is really frustrated, and since she has 3 kids she is not looking forward to sending them to private schools. She is also concerned that the standards of private schools will go down if the standards of public schools go down.
Preeti
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Hi Preeti, I think this must be a district level decision. Nothing has changed in my daughter’s algebra I class. Though there is already talk of “common core” and its wonders on the horizon. We are opting out of all state testing going forward. If our kids need standardized test scores, we will pay for the private assessments when they are closer to applying for college.
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They did have a district meeting after which there were changes in the classes and insane amount of unrelated homework in the form of essays in different subjects are coming.
Thank you so much for this info, Edward.
What private assessments do you suggest.
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I was a sped teacher who railed against inclusion – believing that they were not acting according to the kids’ rights to be “included”, but instead taking away their right to an FAPE, I was told I just didn’t like change. My answer always was, “yeah, and the people on the Titanic didn’t like that change either…..”
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excellent response!
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Someone with a lot of time (not me) should look in to the lobbyists in DC. Tracking it down once I was surprised to find that lobbyists are shared often. I don’t have a political mind but enough to know that lobbyists=power. My thinking is that it would be indicting to discover that the College Board shares lobbyists with Pearson. For along time I have been trying to figure out who is saying what should be taught …long before the Common Core. In my on-going anxiety over this I have become increasingly worried about the College Board, which has become more powerful over time and is frankly telling us what to teach. Well, this is why I was so stunned to see that David Coleman, the architect of the Common Core is now president of the college board. It shouldn’t be hard to find some connection to Pearson. I would not be terribly surprised-there are so many hands in the pot (Pearson, the Gates Foundation, the College Board…) making money off our children…plainly immoral!
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We need like a Edward Snowden on our side.
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On a related note, just this week the district came to test and screen my 2nd grades to see if any of them might qualify for the gate program. I nearly went ballistic at this intrusion. First, testing at this age is of questionable validity, but then I had to help set up the computer lab for this because the district is using a computerized test from Pearson. I defied the temptation to sabotage the whole lab. Anyone knows that testing young children is a delicate matter, best done individually. Computerized tests for young children, you have got to be kidding. Alas, the sorry joke is on us, as a taxpayer I am paying for this. Even the leading psychometricians are lambasting the quality of Pearson’s products. They also roundly reject the notion of young children on computers.
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We need to be talking much more about why Pearson is taking over every aspect of American education. This needs to be brought to the attention of the public. It is definitely a monopoly, and it is not a benign one.
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Evil comes to mind.
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Why is the easy question.
77 million (K-college) customers = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
More importantly, how did we let it happen?
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Yes. That’s what I mean by “why.” Why has Pearson been allowed to do this?
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By electing someone mendacious, inexperienced, out of his depth, and desperate to be accepted by the 1%. As a result, billionaires and corporations are running amok.
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Some may think I am crazy for even entertaining this thought. But I think it’s worth a ponder.
Thought:
The education agenda is a war agenda. Our two big downfalls: Runaway capitalism and repressive beliefs, both produce wars and inequality. The core of our society is being trampled upon and quite blatantly. We have no choice; we must speak and act to protect our young and our profession…this country is a mess. We must demand that our elected officials uphold Our Constitution and The Bill of Rights. If they don’t vote them out or impeach. !
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Here’s an old post on Pearson and Bush connections:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/04/10/321457/-Bush-Profiteers-collect-billions-from-NCLB-Part-12#
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I’m with TE that there are enormous advantages to digital learning. I won’t go into the long, long list of advantages. I just want to mention a few that aren’t talked about as much as they should be.
Pixels are much, much cheaper than paper is. I have a folder on my hard drive that contains every scrap of writing in Anglo Saxon that has survived, down to inscriptions on pots. Cost of the whole: A few dollars. Cost of purchasing these in the form of books: I have no idea. I don’t even know if one could. For $127 you can buy the sacred-texts.com Flashdrive, which contains 1,700 of the sacred scriptures of religions around teh world from the beginning of time to the present, including esoteria like several hundred 2nd-century gnostic and Christian gospels, acts, and fragments thereof. Compiling a print library of those works would cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Paper is environmentally devastating. Only about 8 percent of the old-growth forest of the United States remains.
Digital learning can make available to any student, anywhere, at any time something like the whole of the world’s knowledge. This is the realization of an ancient dream–the one dreamed by the Ptolemies who established the Library of Alexandria, by the ancient Persian, Arabic, and Greek encyclopedists, by Erasmus and Diderot, by H. G. Wells, by President Truman’s science advisor Vannevar Bush. Richard Feynman explained in a beautiful lecture called “There’s Plenty of Room at the Bottom” how the entire accumulated knowledge of the world could conceivably be encoded in a device the size of a sugar cube. We now have the ability, via an unobstructed Internet, to allow any student, anywhere, at any time, access to that. For the price of a $100 laptop with a hand-cranked generator provided by a NGO, a child in an isolated village can have the access to knowledge that you do.
Digital learning provides opportunities for children to develop and pursue intellectual passions along unique paths and thus to nurture in them intrinsic motivation to learn. Nurturing that intrinsic motivation should be our PRIME DIRECTIVE.
Digital learning provides unprecedented opportunities for demonstration. Suppose that I want to teach you how AC and DC motors work. With a digital tool, I can take you inside one and show you the thing in actual operation–zooming in on its parts, annotating these parts, as the motor is running. I can take you inside a magma chamber far beneath the Earth or to the sea beneath the ice on Europa and show you the forces operating there.
Using digital learning, we can connect communities of learners and provide 24/7 feedback and help. Any kid can go onto Dr. Math with that question about how to solve a system of linear equations and find an answer and ask a follow-up question and get an answer to that.
I could go on. But I’ll stop there.
Those points made,
Beware of devices that are locked down, blocking access to the Net generally and of ones preloaded with proprietary curricula to the exclusion of everything else.
Beware of educational software that simply presents worksheets on a screen. Beware of educational software that is all flash (e.g., cartoon graphics) and little content.
Beware of educational software that tries to pour everything, however complex, into like-templated, bullet points (the Powerpointing of instruction, with its dramatic distortions and dumbing down).
Beware of reports that present data in a way that gives the illusion that you are learning more than you actually are about kids’ abilities.
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Agree completely. A very separate issue from CC$$.
Digital history books that update in real time.
See the blitzkrieg or Neil Armstrong stepping onto the lunar surface.
Limitless possibilities to instruct and inspire.
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In fact, CC$$ works AGAINST realizing the promise of digital learning by creating those economies of scale for the monopolists and by forcing learning into narrow, invariant, preconceived tracks.
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Look up “metamorphosis” and see the caterpillar become a butterfly.
“migration” one click and watch the wildebeests ford the river by the thousands. “free-fall” – watch Felix Baumgartner descend from 24 miles.
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The Baumgartner vid is breathtaking. Wow!
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Talk about making 9.8 m/s2 come to life!
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“hundreds of thousands of dollars” for the print library of 1,700 sacred texts was, of course, a bit of an exaggeration. Many of those texts are available in print only in very limited, very expensive scholarly editions. Suppose that these cost $79.00 apiece, on average. Cost of the library would be $134,300. See, for example,
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It is not so much a question of hard copies or digital books, but of who controls the content. Actually, ebooks should make it easier for smaller publishers to come back on the scene and provide a variety of choices, if there were such a thing as choice–If we were not all under Common Control.
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IF
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Of course, developing good digital learning tools is difficult, time-consuming, and expensive. It’s much, much more cost effective for a large company to create worksheets on a screen and to do backroom deals to distribute these on locked devices that allow access only to their proprietary materials. It’s that sort of monopolization that we MUST oppose at every opportunity in order for the promise of digital learning to be realized.
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Wiki-books
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Indeed. A child with a tablet can have, stored locally on it, more volumes than are available in the largest public school library in the world and ready access to millions more. Cheap permissions and editorial vetting of those volumes for accessibility are other matters that have to be addressed.
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Apple has a template that allows teachers to create their own e-books
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Great! Can you post a link?
Google Apps for Education makes available to schools an entire suite of office products (word processing, spreadsheet, presentation, collaboration, database, etc) for free. Khan takes a lot of heat on this blog, but I’m a big fan. Is his teaching perfect? No. But whose is? Here’s what I love about what he does: A kid anywhere, whatever her other resources, can get to this stuff if he or she has a decent computer and a decent Internet connection. All it takes is an interest in learning.
Teachers cannot be replaced by apps. Those who don’t understand why shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a school or an education policy-making desk. But digital learning can bring about an astonishing rebirth of learning AND be breathtakingly democratizing–AS LONG AS WE DO NOT ALLOW A FEW MONOPOLISTS TO CREATE AND CONTROL THE GATEWAY.
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Just over a year ago, Apple announced its entrance into the crowded e-textbook market, with a build-your-own-textbook tool sticking out in particular. With iBooks Author, professors can add images from their iPhoto libraries, iTunes video clips, and Keynote lecture slides—though the program runs only on Macs, meaning professors and students would have to adopt Apple products. Also announced at the event, iTunesU—a course-management system alternative—was seen as being more likely to be widely adopted
http://www.educationdive.com/news/16-e-textbook…publishing-and…/94324/
Not sure how to copy and paste links; best I can do for now. Note the catch – Macs only
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Perhaps this isn’t relevant, but Pearson also took over National Board Teacher Certification. They changed submission rules in the middle of the 2012-2013 cycle and there were reports of score irregularities.
Not everything they publish is bad, as I like good books and online programs. However, relying on all the test data is wrong. I’d love to see us simply not need their testing services because we invested more fully in good teaching.
But I didn’t pass NBTC so I get to pay them a lot of money to re-do the work!
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Sorry, everyone, about derailing the thread with a more general discussion of digital learning!
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Not completely derailed Robert. You made the perfect point that many of these creative ways of teaching and inspiring will be smothered by the implementation of CC$$/RTTT?SBAC/PARCC and stultifying effects of the Pearson monopoly. Taking a sidetrack to glimpse what could (but may not) be was worth the wander. Stay fierce and fearless.
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Thank you, NY teacher. You as well!
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But I’m afraid that there is not an awareness, even among most educators, of the ubiquitous claws of Pearson strangling American education. To me it is really frightening.
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I returned to community college and almost all of the texts are from Pearson-from Psychology to Health -it’s very unsettling to have one company providing the content.
The advantages- that there are test banks for the instructor and aligned study aids for the students.
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Excuse me: it’s an advantage that Pearson is also making the tests? In my c.c., all those tests are computerized multiple choice graded by scantron. The students don’t get the tests back, so they can’t see what errors they made or how to improve their learning. Those test banks don’t promote education. They promote routinized learning.
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It is very unsettling and disturbing to me as well. I did my Master’s in Special Ed at University of Phoenix online, and there was Pearson the whole ride, directing the entire teacher prep program. Many other educators in the program are so much younger, and perhaps being younger they are more accustomed to seeing one or very few companies having the whole pie in any industry, but I remember when everyone was in an outrage at the idea that AT&T would be allowed to buy out other companies and back then it was denied to prevent a monopoly. But now?
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Very scary. You’d think that there is a anti-trust violation here. But too many have their fingers in the pie. Sure could use a whistleblower soon.
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That’s just what Mercedes Schneider and Diane Ravitch are doing, bless them both.
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Part 1
I’ve noted previously on this blog (several times) that stopping the Common Core will be very, very difficult. Far too many educators – not to mention students and parents and community members – are badly and sadly misinformed about the ACT and about the College Board and its primary products (PSAT, SAT, Advanced Placement program, and Accuplacer, the placement test used by more than 60 percent of community colleges.).
According to research, most are essentially worthless. But people still buy into them, and promote them. Most importantly, both the ACT and the College Board are “all in” for the Common Core and both were intimately involved with its development. Both advertise that their products are “aligned” with it.
Stopping corporate-style “reform” and the Common Core is easier said than done. Parents, students and educators are going to have to remove the wool from over their eyes. And that means abandoning blind belief in the ACT, and in the College Board and the products it peddles.
Take, for example, the Board’s AP program, which has expanding tremendously over the past two decades and is now perceived to be a “gateway” to selective college admissions. A prominent educator recently complained that the”entire approach of Common Core and of assessing according to it is based on flawed notions about learning and education.” This same educator, however, loves the AP program despite the fact that a 2002 National Research Council study of AP courses and tests found them to be a “mile wide and an inch deep” and inconsistent with research-based principles of learning. And that was before they were “aligned” with Common Core!
A 2005 study (Klopfenstein and Thomas) found AP students “…generally no more likely than non-AP students to return to school for a second year or to have higher first semester grades.” Moreover, the authors wrote that “close inspection of the [College Board] studies cited reveals that the existing evidence regarding the benefits of AP experience is questionable,” and “AP courses are not a necessary component of a rigorous curriculum.”
A 2006 MIT faculty report noted ““there is ‘a growing body of research’ that students who earn top AP scores and place out of institute introductory courses end up having ‘difficulty’ when taking the next course.” Two years prior, Harvard “conducted a study that found students who are allowed to skip introductory courses because they have passed a supposedly equivalent AP course do worse in subsequent courses than students who took the introductory courses at Harvard” (Seebach, 2004). Dartmouth found that high scores on AP psychology tests do NOT translate into college readiness for the next-level course. Indeed, students admit that ““You’re not trying to get educated; you’re trying to look good;” and, “”The focus is on the test and not necessarily on the fundamental knowledge of the material.” Students know that AP is far more about gaming the college acceptance process than it is learning.
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Democracy
College admissions officers will still look to see that students took the most academically challenging course of study that their high school has to offer. This being the case, I would never recommend that a student avoid AP classes in lieu of what is perceived to be a lesser course of study. However your argument against the value of AP as preparatory college classes makes the strong case for high schools to explore the IB (International Baccalaureate)program which provides a much more rigorous course of study and clearly superior preparation for university work.
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@ NY Teacher: the research finds that AP courses are no better than other college preparatory courses, and those courses do not have to be IB. Moreover, courses that stimulate critical and reflective thinking do not have to be “college preparatory.”
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Strong classes are strong classes, no matter the name you attach to them. The advantage of calling a class an AP class is that many are familier with the idea of AP classes (and increasingly IB classes), so it is an acceptable way to offer strong students the classes that they need to stay engaged in high school.
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When I went to school (class of 72 in Western New York), taking an AP class was an honor, and you didn’t take numerous classes, just one, maybe two, in your senior year, and only after you had mastered the material in a previous class.
Now, instead of Regents classes, the students are shoved into AP, at various grade levels. So Junior Year, they have a major course load, RegentsTrigonometry, AP English, AP American History, AP Chemistry or AP Biology, Regents French, etc. It’s too much, even for the bright kids. Do they get all 4s or 5s on the AP exams? No! Do they do as well in their other courses? No! There is only so much time in a day. Why are we torturing our kids in the name of rigor? And the IB classes are just as bad.
When they graduate they will go to college. Sophomores and Juniors do not need the added pressure of college-like classes. Even seniors should take an equitable load.
Schools are rated on the number of AP exams their student population takes, not on the scores. Very few do well enough to earn college credit, even if their college accepts it. Once again, the school assessment is forcing the students into situations which are not in their best interests. How much better for them to take relevant classes where they have the opportunity to learn the material, get a good grade in the class, and maintain a higher GPA. Not every student is AP material, and definitely not in every subject. Most of them are not ready for the intensity of this type of coursework at the age of fifteen or sixteen. Isn’t that why they are in high school? To become “college ready” for after they graduate when they go to COLLEGE?
Plus, those AP exams can get expensive. So who is benefitting? The student? The school? Or Pearson?
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There is a large range of student abilities and interests, and there are certainly high school students capable and interested in taking advanced courses. I know of three students from my local high school who were taking graduate classes at the local university while still in high school, for example. The ability of students to access information and courses independently of teachers will, I think, allow the most able and interested students to widen this gap even further.
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TE – I don’t have a problem with advanced students taking college classes, if they so choose. Some students even decide to graduate and start college early.
It’s forcing the average student into advanced classes to raise a school’s ranking which I vehemently object to.
Schools should be offering varied experiences to their students which meet individual needs and interests. The technology is available to accomplish this. Colleges are willing to sponsor college classes and provide instructors, even within the local high school building. Internships should also be explored. However, not everything has to be accelerated. We also need some regular or remedial classes. There is a proper time and place for everything. Sometimes we forget this in our rush for rigor and excellence.
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I agree that students individual interests and needs should be meet, which is why I advocate for students to be able to choose schools and schools should be able to specialize in areas that students need.
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I agree. Vocational Ed, Liberal Arts, Montessori, Gifted and Talented, Culinary, Performing Arts, Technical Vocations, MST (Math, Science, Technology), Honors, Neighborhood Schools, etc. We have it all in Buffalo, NY.
Now if all the kids would buy into this model, we would be all set.
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Agreed. But my original point still holds true. It is in the best interest of a high school student who hopes to attend a selective college to take the most challenging course offering that their high school offers. this point id not debatable.
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@ Teaching Economist: Just because a class is labeled “AP” does NOT mean it’s a “strong” class. What it means is that the focus of the class is the AP curriculum (know how those curricula are developed?) and the AP test. The most common score on an AP tests is a 3, the equivalent of a “C.” Would you call a “C” a “strong” grade?
@ NY Teacher: Did you read the research synopsis? Kids take AP classes to get into college, not because they are “challenging.” As the research makes clear, AP courses are no more “challenging” than other classes that emphasize critical and reflective thinking, and probably less so.
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Those classes are the strongest in my local high school. They go the fastest, go more in depth, and require students to think more about the topics than the main line classes. They are also the classes that attract the other strong students, creating a positive peer impact and culture that is friendly to academic achievement.
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Democracy – I think you are being generous. The push is for kids to take AP and the results are 1s and 2s. The better kids get the 3s, and the students who should be in the course get the 4s or 5s.
By “requiring” or “strongly encouraging” students to sign up for AP, the class rigor is ultimately reduced and the success rate is ill fated.
That said, my daughter took AP Government, which was a phenomenal course with a fantastic teacher and she did get a lot out of it. However, the 1 on the AP exam did not reflect any of this. I would rather that she skipped the exam and stayed focused on the content.
Previously, her sister had signed up for AP Biology which she quickly dropped since she didn’t want to work that hard in her senior year.
All three of my daughters received Regents Diplomas with High Distinction and all three graduated from college – without a single AP credit. (And they didn’t do that well on the SATs either.)
And it all (the high school nonsense) means absolutely nothing.
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In my state there are many high schools with no AP classes, almost no schools with IB programs, and of course no Regents Diplomas of any level of distinction. There is only class standing.
I should point out that there is no requirement that a student take an AP class in order to take the exam. My middle son only took 3 traditional AP classes (a fourth was a virtual class taught by K-12), but he took 9 exams. It seems like a reasonable way to verify the value of the work he did on his own.
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TE – Luckily your region doesn’t seem to have the obsession for so called excellence that we find in NYS.
I have a great admiration for your son who you have mentioned on more than one occasion – as I have also talked about my children. Not many students can successfully challenge one AP exam, let alone six, plus the three he took in school. However, your child is exceptional and not the norm. Even my daughters who were B students did not represent the average child (despite the fact that my third daughter had to overcome learning disabilities in order to be successful in school).
Let us take pity on the large number of kids who are doomed (in the eyes of our leaders) to be average or below – the 1s and 2s of the world.
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I think public education has always had trouble with students who were out of the norm, and historically this has included a wide group of students. As one poster here put it, why should taxpayers pay for the educational whims of parents?
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TE – we have the technology and ability to meet the needs of a wide variety of children. It is the various policies which hold us back. And the situation is getting worse, not better. The more standardized we get, the more kids are being left out.
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I think we have the ability and technology to meet the needs of a wide variety of students, but we need to move away from using street addresses to determine school admission policies. In that respect, the situation is getting better.
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Agreed!
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Thank you for bringing the discussion back to AP. What the College Board is doing with these tests is selling college credits at 3/$91. The CB is subject to no oversight and answers to no accrediting body (unlike colleges). As someone who has scored both the English Lit and English Lang APs, I can tell you that the tests don’t begin to measure what students need to learn in freshman composition. As a colleague said, the tests shows a student can do a rough draft in the time it takes to go down an elevator.
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Colleges and universities are free to refuse to give credit for any AP exam if they wish. Some no doubt over credit, some under credit. Personally I think that colleges and universities should accept transfer credit from incoming first year students, something that few institutions do.
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Part 2
In The ToolBox Revisited (2006), Adelman wrote about those who had misstated his original ToolBox (1999) work: “With the exception of Klopfenstein and Thomas (2005), a spate of recent reports and commentaries on the Advanced Placement program claim that the original ToolBox demonstrated the unique power of AP course work in explaining bachelor’s degree completion. To put it gently, this is a misreading.”
Ademan goes on to say that “Advanced Placement has almost no bearing on entering postsecondary education,” and when examining and statistically quantifying the factors that relate to bachelor’s degree completion, Advanced Placement does NOT “reach the threshold level of significance.”
The 2010 book “AP: A Critical Examination” noted that “Students see AP courses on their transcripts as the ticket ensuring entry into the college of their choice,” yet, “there is a shortage of evidence about the efficacy, cost, and value of these programs.” And this: AP has become “the juggernaut of American high school education,” but “ the research evidence on its value is minimal.”
And yet, students are still told by their parents and teachers and guidance counselors (and others) to take AP. SAT and ACT prep classes are still big business. But college enrollment specialists say that their research finds the SAT predicts between 3 and 15 percent of freshman-year college grades, and after that nothing. As one commented, “I might as well measure their shoe size.” The ACT is only marginally better. Worse, as Matthew Quirk reported in “The Best Class Money Can Buy:”
“The ACT and the College Board don’t just sell hundreds of thousands of student profiles to schools; they also offer software and consulting services that can be used to set crude wealth and test-score cutoffs, to target or eliminate students before they apply…That students are rejected on the basis of income is one of the most closely held secrets in admissions; enrollment managers say the practice is far more prevalent than most schools let on.”
Stopping Common Core and corporate-style “reform” is not going to be possible without abandoning blind belief in and acquiescence to the ACT and the College Board.
For many, that pill is just too hard to swallow.
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TE has often commented on this blog that we need standardized tests because one can’t rely on the accuracy of high-school grades as measures of college success. However, study after study has shown that high-school grades, given by all those independent agents, the teachers so maligned by the deform community, do a better job of predicting college success than do SAT scores. The latest of a raft of studies of this:
Now Lord Colman is going to revise the SAT. God help us if he does the same level of work on that that he did on the amateurish, misguided, backward CC$$ in ELA!
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cx: as predictors of college success, not measures, of course
I do with this blog had an edit feature!
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What I have pointed out, amoung other things, is that half of the valedictorians from my local high school did not take enough academic classes to qualify for admission to state universities in my state. What I have pointed out is that grades are compressing, a 3.2 high school GPA puts a student in the lowest at risk band at my universitiy and a 3.85 does not put a student in the top 10% of students. What I have pointed out is that boys are systematically downgraded relative to standardized exam scores (or you could say that girls are systematically upgraded).
I have had students with ACT scores of 16 and students with ACT scores of 36 taking the same class. Any guesses about how they did?
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All high schools should have some basic requirements for graduation. They are not doing their students any favors by allowing them to be accepted into a competitive college with inflated grades.
Then again, the high school gets credit for the college admission, not the subsequent college drop out.
So the assessment drives the policy.
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TE, do you think that the adoption of the CC$$ and of the PARCC and SBAC tests will result in more capable students in your classes? I’m curious.
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Robert,
As to the specific standards, I can most competently comment on the math half of the standards. The standards there seem reasonable, and if all my students were at the level of mathematical sophistication called for, we would end up doing more critical thinking about the economy and a good deal less algebra.
On the broader question of national standards, I suppose ones views depend a great deal on a person’s geographic location. In my case, the good citizens of my state would likely democratically vote in standards that would put bible stories in science classes. This makes me a good deal more concerned about state standards than federal standards.
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TE – that’s the dilemma. Can we agree on subject content – with or without state or national standards.
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@ TE: The ACT is only marginally better than the SAT at predicting college success, and the SAT is not very good. As one college enrollment specialist noted about using the SAT, “I may as well use shoe size.”
Moreover, the tests from ACT and the College Board that community colleges use to place students are notoriously inaccurate.
And, as I’ve noted, both ACT and the College Board are “all in” on the Common Core. As long as educators, parents, students, and community members remain bamboozled by the misinformation and outright lies spewed by these two organizations, the Common Core will roll along.
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At my institution, at least, we have a much larger variation in standardized test scores (16 – 36) than we do in high school GPA (3-4). Administrators at my university find high school GPA to be relatively uninformative.
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Actually, doing well on tests and being smart does not guarantee success in college. Good study habits, time management, and the ability to tough it out when the semester gets “rough”, are more important than innate ability.
We all know smart kids from high school that somehow did not make it through the morass of college life. We also know friends who were considered average who not only got their four year degrees, but who now have successful careers.
Basing success on AP, IB, SAT or ACT is a waste of time.
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How I wish more colleges and universities would ditch the SAT’s. How can we convince them of this?
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One way would be if the college rankings were ditched, because that’s what drives the SAT/ACT/AP bullshit.
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Get rid of the high school, middle school, and elementary rankings as well.
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It’s also harder to teach an AP class when half the students can’t do the work.
My one teacher friend said that the only advantage in requiring the kids to take AP American History is that they all did better on the Regents Exam.
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Anecdotes are just that…anecdotes. How does your friend know that the kids “did better” on the Regent’s Exam just because of AP? Did the kids take the same Exam before and after the AP course?
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This particular teacher has won NYS SS Teacher of the year on more than one occasion. She made this comment based on years of experience. We worked at a Gifted and Talented school where ALL the students took AP American History. Not all were gifted in Social Studies, but they all passed the Regents Exam. They didn’t do as well on the AP. I trust her analysis.
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