What Direction for NYC’s Public Schools?

22 Comments Post your own or leave a trackback: Trackback URL

1. Patty Williams says:

   September 8, 2013 at 8:10 pm

   Spot on, Diane!

   Reply
2. Linda says:

   September 8, 2013 at 8:16 pm

   Does Canada still kick out entire grade levels when he doesn’t want them anymore?

   Reply
3. Joe Nathan says:

   September 8, 2013 at 8:20 pm

   Again, more criticism of choice except of course when “specialized” schools in NYC are allowed to pick and choose kids. That’s a part of the status quo that should be questioned.
   And choice allows teachers create new schools within the system too. That’s called teacher empowerment.

   Not sure what Canada does. But it’s clear Styvesant and a number of elite schools never allow kids with special needs, who can’t pass their admissions tests, to enter.

   Reply
   • Michael Fiorillo says:

     September 8, 2013 at 8:24 pm

     Unlike so-called public charter schools, Joe, Stuyvesant makes no representations otherwise.

     Reply
     • Joe Nathan says:

       September 8, 2013 at 8:40 pm

       Unfortunately there are charters that have admissions tests. Fortunately most state legislatures have prohibited this.

       I’d be glad to work with you and anyone else in any state to prohibit any public school – district or charter – from using admissions tests. Want to work together on that?

     • Linda says:

       September 8, 2013 at 8:46 pm

       Charters use more than admissions tests to get rid of kids. That’s an oversimplification based on the experiences with our chains, Achievement First and others. You’re now focusing on one tactic for some reason. You have to be more aware of what is happening in other states. You portray your experiences as the standard for the entire country. That’s where I lose interest because you come off as this self appointed expert who discounts the experiences of other educators, the kind in the classroom. I always feel diminished and disregarded by you.

   • Linda says:

     September 8, 2013 at 8:26 pm

     You must be equally concerned about the status quo of closing schools, high stakes testing, loss of authentic instructional time, ranking, sorting, shaming children, teachers and schools. I am sure your status quo indignation applies to all of these principles not just those that you cling to as a way of bashing traditional public schools and their unionized teachers. Please share your concerns with the NGA.

     Canada dismissed an entire grade when their scores wouldn’t make him look good.

     Imagine that Joe!

     Reply
     • Joe Nathan says:

       September 8, 2013 at 8:48 pm

       Yes, Linda, I am concerned about many things in public education. And I strongly agree about the importance of honoring fine teachers, whether district or charter. Here’s the latest newspaper column honoring a teacher who did a lot that had nothing to do with improving student achievement on standardized tests.
       http://hometownsource.com/2013/09/04/joe-nathan-column-mr-hardy-student-couldnt-sing/

       Here’s a column criticizing problems in this state’s testing programs. “MCA” stands for Minnesota Comprehensive Assessments”

       http://hometownsource.com/2013/08/28/joe-nathan-column-problems-plagued-latest-minnesota-statewide-testing/

       The column concludes, “Some of the most important things can’t be measured by not-always-reliable online tests.”

     • Duane Swacker says:

       September 9, 2013 at 6:44 am

       Joe,

       If I may correct your statement:

       “Some of the most important things can’t be measured by NEVER-reliable online tests.”

       By definition, as proven by Noel Wilson, standardized tests can’t ever be reliable because they are INVALID. Since those tests are INVALID they can never be reliable. Those two concepts go hand in hand and can’t be logically seen as separate entities.

   • Joe says:

     September 8, 2013 at 9:46 pm

     “Specialized” schools are not meant to replace all the other regular schools as charter schools are. The specialized schools are just that, specialized, they are not designed to replace all the traditional public schools which charters are designed to do. The specialized schools are up front about what they are and do, they don’t pretend. Not all school districts have these specialized schools.

     Reply
     • Joe Nathan says:

       September 8, 2013 at 10:17 pm

       Joe, first, charters are not intended to replace all district public schools.

       Second, I agree that not all communities have elite quasi private magnet schools that use admissions tests. So?

       Third a number of people on this list serve had noted over and over again that public schools are supposed to be open to all. I agree.

       They’ve criticized some charter public schools for having admissions tests. I agree that this is wrong.

       So why is it bad for charters to use admissions tests, but it’s ok for some district schools?

     • dianerav says:

       September 9, 2013 at 12:00 am

       Unfortunately, Geoff Canada did kick out an entire grade–his entering class, after they had been in his school for three years and still had low scores. It was shameful. I think even Geoff was embarrassed to do it, but that was what his board wanted. They wanted the pretense of a miracle school and they even got a column from David Brooks saying that it was so. The news reporters had a different take on the Harlem Childrens Zone: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/13/education/13harlem.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
       This is a must read to learn about the amazing resources that HCZ has available. If only the neighboring public schools had the same!

   • KrazyTA says:

     September 8, 2013 at 11:29 pm

     Michael Fiorillo & Linda: quite so.

     How about we take the “road less traveled” on this one?

     The link provided in the above posting will take you to a page where you can access the very brief comments by Pedro Noguera, Geoffrey Canada, Sol Stern and Diane Ravitch.

     Geoffrey Canada is the president and CEO of Harlem Children’s Zone and president of the Harlem Children’s Zone Promise Academy Charter Schools. His commentary is entitled “Let’s Have More Accountability.”

     Let’s walk down that path for a moment, shall we?

     He makes it clear that we “need to strengthen our evaluation tools” and [in a sidebar] that the “next mayor must not be afraid to continue controversial measures like closing failing schools, supporting charters and evaluating teachers.” He ends with a stirring call : “The next mayor will find that improving the education of our students will be the toughest job he or she will take on. It will call for real courage and real accountability, but it must be job No. 1.”

     So the priorities are clear: high scores on high-stakes standardized tests to punish educators and learners and the courage [?] to beat up on teacher, students and communities. **The old ‘the beatings will continue until morale improves’ school of $tudent $ucce$$.**

     Accountability? How charming… Hmmm, how about that 100% graduation rate he claimed in a recent TED talk for his 2012 graduating class in response to a question by John Legend:

     “Well, you know, John, 100 percent of our kids graduated high school last year in my school. A hundred percent of them went to college.This year’s seniors will have 100 percent graduating high school. Last I heard we had 93 percent accepted to college. We’d better get that other seven percent. So that’s just how this goes. (Applause)”

     Shifting now from RheeWorld to Planet Reality, note the following clarification from Gary Rubinstein’s blog [link below and a related link to this blog]: “So the 62 graduates in 2012 had been the 97 6th graders in 2006.  This does not represent a 0% dropout rate, as Canada implied to John Legend, but a 36% dropout rate.”

     And there’s the curious case of the class of 2008…

     So in the interests of rigor and accountability and the, er, courage to do unpopular things—

     Buh-bye, Geoffrey Canada. You’re fired. And you can’t use the excuse that “Men lie and women lie but numbers don’t” [Dr. Steve Perry, channeling rapper Jay-Z]

     Here on Planet Reality, numbers do add up. And yours don’t.

     Link: http://garyrubinstein.teachforus.org/2013/05/12/canadas-legend-ary-ted-talk-lie/

     Link: https://dianeravitch.net/2013/05/13/geoffrey-canada-just-tell-the-truth/

     My advice: be more cautious and next time pay heed to a real numbers/stats guy:

     “As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.”  [Albert Einstein, Sidelights on Relativity]

     If you find yourself with too much time on your hand, I hear Paul Vallas needs an assistant for his next gig…

     🙂

     Reply
   • FLERP! says:

     September 9, 2013 at 11:10 am

     There are some good fairness arguments against NYC’s competitive admissions schools, and there are some good fairness arguments in favor of them.

     On the level of fairness, these are arguments about (as TE often puts it) the familiar dilemma of “each” versus “all.” I don’t think either side has the clear moral high ground, so what you have is a compromise of sorts.

     The other important point to note is that the competitive admissions schools is that they are a sop to middle class parents who would leave the city if these options weren’t available.

     Reply
4. Chiara says:

   September 8, 2013 at 8:29 pm

   “The next mayor must not be afraid to continue controversial measures like closing failing schools, supporting charters and evaluating teachers.”

   No endorsement of supporting public schools, however. Public schools apparently require no support. They’ll have to sink or swim on their own under constant threat of closure, while the charter system is carefully nurtured. Remember, folks, they don’t play favorites! They’re “agnostics”.

   Reply
5. john says:

   September 8, 2013 at 8:41 pm

   Mr. Canada is a complete nutter! I don’t think his common core test scores were very good. Let’s hold him accountable for that failure and let him go. He doesn’t seem to have what it takes.

   Reply
   • Linda says:

     September 8, 2013 at 8:47 pm

     Time to turnaround his school based on test scores..replace the director. You don’t have to replace 50% of the teachers…that many leave each year anyway.

     Reply
6. Chiara says:

   September 8, 2013 at 8:47 pm

   “In advocating actions to improve our schools, the next mayor must not be afraid of the reaction from the public or vested interests,”

   Because God forbid an elected official should listen to the people in a neighborhood regarding their public school. What do they know? They’re clearly a “vested interest” and they probably lack grit and make excuses.
   The weirdest thing about school reformers to me is how they separate out “children” from “the public”. They know these children live with their parents and the rest of the “the public” in these neighborhoods, right? Generally we in “the public” are not adversarial towards “the children” in our neighborhoods. Many members of the public are even their parents.

   Reply
7. George Buzzetti says:

   September 8, 2013 at 10:23 pm

   Canada has obviously drank the Kool Aid and had his offshore account loaded up for that one. He told a “Long Tall Sally” this time and as usual. what if they did not have their perks, my correction factor, then what would they look like. What if they had to take the exact same children in the same proportions such as Title 1, ESL and special ed not to speak of their other special perks. Then they are much worse than regular public schools. Simple math and statistics.

   Reply
8. GST says:

   September 8, 2013 at 10:37 pm

   Diane, please go to you tube and check out this Phila teacher protest video by searching “One More Day Teacher Video”. Then post it to shame Geoffrey Canada and the rest of the corporate raiders. Thank you.

   Reply
9. retiredbutmissthekids says:

   September 9, 2013 at 1:33 am

   Still, when all is said and done, the base(less) foundation of this shaky House of Cards has a name, and its name is Pear$on. It is the heart and soul of the problem.
   Pear$on and its tests (high-stakes, “standardized,” Common Core, whatever) have been consistently faulty, are currently faulty and will continue to be faulty in the future.
   We MUST stop this testing insanity THIS year! We MUST stop the enormous $$$ flow into the coffers of the Pear$on conglomerate.
   Superintendents–continue to write letters & make speeches to parents. Parent groups–such as Parents Across America, small groups of parents across the U.S.–PLEASE continue to reach out and educate more & more parents. OPT your kids OUT THIS year! Retired teachers–inform parents and relatives and everyone you know.

   Reply
10. Judy says:

    September 9, 2013 at 9:00 am

    I am a retired teacher from Philadelphia. Yes, the inner city public schools have massive problems, but the solution is not to throw out the baby…and replace it with
    a system that could not be more disinterested in the needs of the children and the public in general. A few thoughts came to me as I read Mr Canada’s article. I don’t know him at all, but when he made the statement that the common core test results will be a wake up call for people, I am assuming that he meant that the test scores on the common core will show how much or how little the children know. It will, of course, show how much or how little children know about the common core.

    The purpose of testing is to see if the students learned the lessons taught. If the children fail one has to question a few things. One, was the information presented in a understandable way. Two, was the test an accurate reflection of the information that was taught. Three, was the information presented age appropriate. I read Diane’s blog post about the common core curriculum for first graders.
    Frankly I could not believe what I was seeing. The information that was presented did not look to be age appropriate and was actually about things that I learned in junior high school.
    My point is that whoever puts together a curriculum must be versed in what is age appropriate for learners of each grade. By age appropriate, I mean is that the information must match the cognitive abilities of a child in that grade. Yes there will be students who will be way ahead in their abilities, and students who will lag behind. To push a curriculum that is so out of touch with the reality of what is actually out there is a disservice to the children and the public, and frankly, a pretty damn stupid way of doing things. I don’t even get what he is trying to accomplish. Does he want the children to pass the tests or fail them.

    Nothing that I have seen or heard from the folks who are the leaders in the” reform movement” has referenced any hard data about learning or classrooms or even about testing. I do believe that in their quest for “change” (big money), there is an anti-intellectualism that, frighteningly, has been all too present in many dictatorial movements.
    I can only hope that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
    I think we are seeing it now and I hope that whatever comes of this reaction will be good for the people and not the moneyed elites.

    Reply