Having studied the history of education for some decades, I have a built-in resistance to claims about the school of the future, particularly when it involves the end of schooling. Over many years, I have seen predictions about that Great Day when all children are self-motivated, all learning comes naturally, and instruction by adults becomes superfluous. The archetype of this idea was A. S. Neill’s “Summerhill,” which was a huge bestseller in the 1960s. But it was preceded by many other visions of schools without books, without tests, without classes, without teachers, without stress, without walls, without without without.
Here is the latest: a school in the Cloud, with Grannies to answer questions as self-motivated children use the Web to learn at their own speed, as they wish. The man behind this proposal won a $1 million TED prize for this idea.
What do you think?
Diane Ravitch's blog 
There’s a term for this sort of utopian, wishful thinking: technofuturism.
Norbert Weiner, a mathematician and one of the first information scientists, who coined the term “cyber,” used the term “gadget worshippers.”
I have plenty of ideas that I’ll tell you about for less than a million. He was interesting. Seems a little utopian.
A young teacher at my school (3 years) is quitting already. I asked him what he would do next, and he does not know. I thought he was a good teacher, even though he tends to speak in platitudes. He says he can’t teach the kids what they need and that nothing will ever change because teachers just “take it,” (of course in NC we don’t have much choice in that regard). But then he went on with “besides, in 20 years there won’t be public schools anymore and if there are it will all be on-line.” He expounded that this was not because of any type of corporate drive, but that there would be no money for public education.
At times (as an artist, I guess) I struggle with whose words to take as prophecy and whose to take as platitudes. Despairlingly, I go to my husband as a caring audience (he is a bank attorney with a much better sense of business than I have as a public school music teacher). He assures me this assertion is nonsense, and I tend to agree.
Nevertheless, the twenty-somethings clearly see the future bleakly, and this post is right in line with what the quitting teacher things will unfold.
I think there is trouble down the road. I read the book The New Golden Age by Ravi Batra. He is a professor at SMU and it is an interesting read. The book talks about the different types of group in power. He thinks labor is going to have to come back if our country is going to return for the common man.
It’s only a matter of time before this teacher’s prophecy becomes reality. With the rising costs of traditional public schools and contemporary technology advancing at warp speed, his prediction is well on its way already.
Commercial enterprises promote the things their promoters think are good for them in the short run.
That only rarely has much to do with the things that are good for people in the long run.
I am a huge fan of student self-directed learning (and, as the commenters on the article pointed out, there’s nothing new about it). It’s the model that’s used at my daughter’s school and she has just blossomed this year.
But I get a little nauseous when it’s presented as some sort of hands-off, no adults, let the kids do whatever they want sort of thing. That’s what happened when some young, idealistic and very naive (white) people tried to bring progressive education to urban ghettos in the 60s. They got rid of the walls, the teachers, the books, the curriculum and just let the kids have at. And, big surprise, the kids didn’t learn anything, and the black parents just thought it was yet another trick to deprive black children of education, the reaction to which is in part why we now tend to have the opposite of strict discipline and rote drill/skill based learning in urban schools.
Whatever you want to call it – progressive education, exploration learning, etc. – it’s not simply a matter of letting kids have a free-for-all. It’s actually very much structured and guided, just differently than traditional public school. It doesn’t eliminate the need for a teacher, it just transforms the teacher from an expert presenting information to a guide helping students find their own information. It doesn’t eliminate the curriculum, it enfolds the curriculum in students’ own interests and pursuits. It’s certainly not about eliminating books – it’s about encouraging a love of reading for its own end.
The problem with the approach presented in this article is that it only reaches a very small, motivated, aggressive group. What about the kids who aren’t all that interested in the computer in the wall? What about those who weren’t able to learn to use it or able to learn English? What about those who weren’t aggressive enough to get a chance to use it? Progressive education needs to reach out to all kids and let all kids blossom from where ever they’re starting from and whatever their natural personalities and inclinations. Aside from the very motivated few, that usually only happens in the context of direct person-to-person relationships.
To clarify:
“…why we now tend to have the opposite of progressive education – strict discipline and rote drill/skill based learning – in urban schools.”
Well said!
Exactly.
Dienne: exactly so. And again, another example of ‘edupreneurial genius’ failing to grasp such a simple [allegedly exclusive] principle of business called scalability, especially when you’re trying to meet the needs and requirements of vast numbers of constantly changing individual human beings in a seemingly unlimited number of constantly changing environments.
I will begin to believe in this variant of a magic potion, silver bullet, or pixie dust, when we hear the [don’t-hold-your-breath] announcement from the Waldorf School of the Peninsula that they have been wrong all these years, defrauding Silicon Valley luminaries and their children, by deemphasizing computer-related technology in their classrooms. They seem to do just fine without; click on link below.
Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/technology/at-waldorf-school-in-silicon-valley-technology-can-wait.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
I still remember some decades ago when technology—you know, televisions and tapes—were going to so alter ‘traditional teaching and learning’ that the schools of, say, 2013[?], were going to look completely different from those of the late lamented backward looking twentieth century.
I am for anything that is proven to work. But proof by assertion and authority doesn’t work for me. Especially when the bottom line is $tudent $ucce$$ for the edupreneurs, edufrauds [thanks, Linda!] and their accountabully underlings.
Just sayin’…
“I still remember some decades ago when technology—you know, televisions and tapes—were going to so alter ‘traditional teaching and learning’ ”
And I have a photo copy of an article from a magazine from the 20s saying that radio was going to revolutionize the class room.
KTA,
awesome as always.
And Duane, is there any way I could get a copy of said article?
I do a little lesson with my students and it would fit right in!
“Sustained Silent Reading.” We still need books, right? Then, we’re supposed to talk about the books afterward, right? And maybe even write about them? Of course, that won’t sell software, so…
When I did volunteer teaching in Thailand two years ago, the students were expected to develop skills from spending time on the computer with social media and their own exploration…..Facebook partnerships were a source of pride. American education advisors seemed to have played a big role in Thailand and the Thai staff was surprised that I wasn’t impressed with what seemed like wasted “self-discovery, self-learning” time on the computer to me. These students’ questions mostly revolved around Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga.
As I taught High School English (the language) in the school, I quickly became aware that the level of English that most of the students spoke, read and wrote was at a preschool-kindergarten level.
The approach that this man is describing seems to be a variation of “unschooling.” Watch an episode of “Wife Swap” where one of the families is an unschooling one to see the reality of nine and ten-year olds who don’t read or do math.
Bill Gates, UNESCO, Pearson, now they are bringing the tragedy home. it is hidious. time to wake up people.
Yeah, that’s right up there with “creative movement” in music class, or PE. Why not teach them something that will require applying counting, a pattern, knowing right from left, keeping the beat, synchronicity, learning a dance with historical significance, etc.? I dare say it is cop-out lesson plans like self-discovery and creative movement that give reformers some fuel. Down time is important for children, but don’t dress it up as a formal lesson for school-time.
It seems that there is a strong tendency in social policy, and particularly in education to believe what ever plausible idea comes along—eg charter schools—is going to solve all problems. And then people are eager to destroy what already exists for the sake of this imagined utopian situation.
My late teacher Karl Popper said that ‘social engineering’ is always preferably ‘piecemeal’, because every new idea needs to be tested in practice to see its unintended consequences—which can be opposite to what is hoped for. And the Deng Xiao Ping used to say that you have to be like a person crossing a river on stones: make sure you have a firm footing on one foot before you lift the other.
So this might work wonderfully in some contexts and completely flop in others. The most important thing is that the creator of this idea *doesn’t know* how it will work in practice, outside the context where it originally did help. So by all means try it, but on a small scale, and see what works, and doesn’t.
But modern education reformers know that THERE IS NO TIME!!!!! Reforms must ALL be made in their entirety, YESTERDAY!!!!!!
Gotta do it for the children, eh!!
so glad to know how little you value our children but see them as guinea pigs for your next idiotic social experiment. duly noted
your noting of the fleeting trends in education just coming along relate only to the minority for which you belong. the rest of us who carry the water here in this country and send our children to school do not take very kindly to your 60’s retreat psycho academic flippance. the entire point of education is completely lost on this moribund group. down with up.
“. . . do not take very kindly to your 60′s retreat psycho academic flippance.”
Can you please explain that thought a bit more?
Also, what is the “entire point of education”? Please enlighten those of us in this “moribund group” who may not be all knowing.
I don’t understand your comment. I was saying that any proposed innovation should be tested on a small scale, in the intended setting, before being tried further. This is urging caution and humility. What do you think was flippant?
William – noel appears to a knee-jerk conservative/libertarian type who’s having a conniption over your use of “social engineering”, as if all of school “reform” isn’t social engineering. As if there’s any way to avoid “social engineering”. These are the same people that hyperventilate over “redistributing wealth” if anything is spent on those low-life poor people, but have no problem with redistributing it upward to the rich who are obviously wise and benevolent stewards.
what is meant is that all of the ideas that have been recycled for 50 years and intensified with each cycle, with new names, have a large failure rate and the “Oh Well” atitude strikes some as flippant, particularly to parents who were not sheltered by the elite education monolith, mearly matriculated through it. your comment was read as suggesting that little experiments like some of the sad one occuring with common core do not do serious damage to some children. unintended consequences Oh well. next. those within the rarified academic philisophical strata seem to disregard other peoples children. that is what I meant. as I try to make sense out of what is happening in my childrens schools and I have looked to this and other experts blogs to find out and understand and I have to say, their is alot of disregard for children and their parents in general, maybe just people. and quoting Deng, well, does not warm the cockles of ones heart.
Noel, you are imagining what isn’t there in what I wrote, and doing me a disservice.
I don’t in the least have an ‘oh well attitude.’ My quoting Deng was because of something good in him, that he was able to reject the doctrinaire views of Mao and instead look pragmatically at what worked. He also said “I don’t care if it’s a white cat or a black cat, so long as it catches mice.” The Maoists, who said “politics in command” attacked him furiously and practically did him in. I detest his authoritarianism, but the fact is that his policies moved a population as large as the entire US population from poverty to middle class.
Perhaps my reference was too opaque, but my point is just that people are entranced by doctrine, by theory, rather than seeing what works. Politics in command is exactly what we don’t need here. The real shame is that policy makers act on utopian hopes that turn out to be totally unfounded, rather than looking at what data, and at what works.
What a brilliant fellow Popper was! Yet another example of his deep insight.
okay William I appreciate your giving more clarity and apologize for my disservice to you. I misunderstood, and agree that adherence to
ideology over factual results is an acute problem in education. As a
kneejerk libertarian, not interested in the experimental casualness I do see elsewhere regarding the education of my children, I lumped you in. However I do not repeal my reaction to my misunderstood idea. also the anger over my percieved political affiliation only makes the case that those who disagree with progressive ideology, regardless of topic will be attacked. its a one way street. and this street leads to my children. I have read the social justice math education educators white papers and I will tell you that math does not get taught by some because they cannot get off the social justice mania. ” be careful not to forget about the math” says one educator educator. So I have a right to be concerned and question the political influences of the teachers my children spend 7 hours a day with and object to their persistant dissemination being the sole focus of education and little else. this speaks to the idea of oh forget the wide expansion of knowledge and ideas, lets just focus on a few and go deeper… and what exactly are those few ideas Mr. Coleman is having our kids ” engage deeply with” his idea of ” deep meaning ” should not be the focus of education, nor should we narrow the exposure to all subjects to those tiny political nuggets chosen by politically motivated goofs like Coleman, only allowed to be viewed through his myopic lense. the reform problems are a dialectic which screw everybody except those employed or invested in microsoft and pearson, among others and they do not care about teachers lives or childrens lives. both sides hate the monopoly hypocrit educrat liars. I apologize to you for my misunderstanding your comment, but let me thank those other responders for proving one of my points.
It’s like deja vu in a no-exit loop. Mutatis mutandis I could be reading an article in Popular Mechanics or Popular Science from the 1950s. It didn’t happen, it keeps not happening, and it keeps not happening for a reason. Time to start looking for the real obstructors. Here’s a hint — It’s not the calling of the instructors. They are not the force that keeps dragging us toward the Grabitational Singularity.
When we all live in a cloud, then we can educate our kids in the cloud. Since I live on the planet, that’s where education needs to occur.
+1
Like!
That like is, of course, in reference to Lisa Wininger’s comments.
I am a long retired teacher who still tutors. I went back to school at age 50 to learn to use the internet and the Microsoft Office Suite. I appreciate the ability to get information so much. When I was young and even in college, the only place you could get unlimited information was in the library where there were still card catalogs….late 1950’s…early 1060’s. I think the internet definitely has a large place in education as does self directed learning. I now tutor elementary school children and always encourage them to research things that interest them on the internet. We still need certified teachers in classrooms to teach and guide. It is not all about what the kids want. It has to come from outside, too, with a curriculum and necessary things they must learn to function in the world and to teach history and culture.
Another point is that it sounds like these kids in rural India weren’t getting any education in the first place. Sure, access to computers and the possibility of learning through the internet is better than nothing at all (maybe, that is – there are a lot of things that could be “learned” on the internet that might be worse than no learning at all). But you can’t extrapolate from that to the idea that taking kids out of currently available formal education and letting them do their own thing is going to improve the situation. How many Lab School or Sidwell Friends parents would chose to just let their kids sit home all day and play on the computer instead?
I don’t know about all day, and my children have only attended traditional zoned public schools, but they have profited a great deal from access to the Internet and the ability to communicate with people around the world.
I agree that this idea needs to be compared to the available alternatives. For relatively rich densely populated places there may be much better methods. For relatively poor and sparsely populated areas this might be the best option.
We can certainly debate the merits of technology in the classrooom. Personally, I’m not a fan of it until at least fourth grade or so, but I do feel there is a place for it.
But, the thing is, this version of “self-directed learning” is being touted as a *superior* method of education. I’m asking if the rich folks who are swooning over this idea are volunteering to take their kids out of their schools and park them in front of a computer and let them “explore” all day on their own? Assuming not, why would they expect other people to be willing to give up their children’s schools and park them in front of a computer all day?
I think what is best would be specific to the student and the available options. Had my son not had the option to take traditional university courses, an entirely on line curriculum may have been the best option for him or others in his situation. It would not necessarily be the best option for every student.
The university level is rather different than the K-12 level. If “traditional” school is not available, rather than just settling for the next best option (letting kids play randomly on the computer), perhaps we should ask why school is not available and rectify the situation.
I was speaking of my child’s high school experience, not university experience.
In my state the small scale of schools tends to limit the course offerings. Many county high schools will have fewer than 250 students.
The internet is a great source of information. Letting the students learn what they will, when they want, will result in a generation that has seen a lot of Youtube videos where people get hurt because they tried to pull off stupid stunts. We’ll be #1 in that.
While a school in the clouds sounds good, and surely there are times when it is appropriate, such as a student home from school or for those who eschew rubbing shoulders with the sinners and unwashed, the problem for me has always been what I hold very important in socialization: that is having to deal with peers and authority figures as a means to prepare doing same in the real world out there.
Summer school is ideal, saving money on physical plant, and the odd course not offered.
However, I stand by the benefits of students practicing being in society, learning not to bully, to avoid bullies, learning manners, and being aware of others, whether liked or not. These are good lessons for life a student would miss if schooling were all in the clouds.
People, especially young people love to investigate. They will search the web like they browse through libraries looking at everything. They are self-motivating and self learning. As a society and family we are obligated to give them the basics to be able to look at things with an educated mind, to know the difference between fact an fiction, between truth and nontruth. Young people especially are very open to suggestions. They are searching for insights, and ideas that will help form their adult thinking and direction. The old adage,” A little knowlege is a dangerous thing”, is true here. Look at the Boston bombers, they fell victim to radical ideas and serched online ways to build a bomb. We need to educate our young to see these ideas and evaluate them in a postive way. Mind you, radical ideas go both ways, like patroitism to the extreme can also be wrong.
Technology and progress cannot be stopped. As educators, we must find ways to help students use it in the most positive way.
Charter schools, vouches, on-line learning and who knows what else are here to stay. Districts, Unions, States, and National Govt. must make sure they are open and fair to everyone. Funding must be transparent so taxpayers know where their money is going, corruption must be weeded out. This country prided itself on it’s education for all.
Agree with portions of the second half of your post.
As for these voracious little searchers who will scour the Internet for answers. Gotta disagree. In our school (high school), we reference what we call the Wikipedia problem. Not all, but a very high percentage of students give up rather quickly when the information they’re seeking does not materialize instantly. As a history teacher, I (and my fellow department members) spend a lot of time with research projects, document interpretation and so on.
Most will also settle for the most basic response or answer as soon as it appears. There’s some truth to your opening statement but I believe that it’s also exaggerated.
remember, if you can relate, really fun times of discovery in libraries? card catelog searches, walking and talking and books and high ceilings and maybe meeting someone new there in the stacks, the beautiful architecture, interfacing with a stern librarian whos passion for books was greater than her passion for meeting someone new. discovering a topic you never thought you would ever know. falling in love with ancient egypt or edgar allan poe by accident.
losing this is one of the great tragedies of the 21st century.
There is a castle on a cloud,
I like to go there in my sleep,
Aren’t any floors for me to sweep,
Not in my castle on a cloud.
There is a room that’s full of toys,
There are a hundred boys and girls,
Nobody shouts or talks too loud,
Not in my castle on a cloud.
There is a lady all in white,
Holds me and sings a lullaby,
She’s nice to see and she’s soft to touch,
She says “Cosette, I love you very much.”
I know a place where no one’s lost,
I know a place where no one cries,
Crying at all is not allowed,
Not in my castle on a cloud.
Oh help! I think I hear them now,
and I’m nowhere near finished sweeping and
scrubbing and polishing the floor.
Oh, it’s her! It’s Madame!
There is a castle on a cloud,
I like to go there in my sleep,
Aren’t any floors for me to sweep,
Not in my castle on a cloud.
There is a room that’s full of toys,
There are a hundred boys and girls,
Nobody shouts or talks too loud,
Not in my castle on a cloud.
There is a lady all in white,
Holds me and sings a lullaby,
She’s nice to see and she’s soft to touch,
She says “Cosette, I love you very much.”
I know a place where no one’s lost,
I know a place where no one cries,
Crying at all is not allowed,
Not in my castle on a cloud.
Oh help! I think I hear them now,
and I’m nowhere near finished sweeping and
scrubbing and polishing the floor.
Oh, it’s her! It’s Madame!
There is a castle on a cloud,
I like to go there in my sleep,
Aren’t any floors for me to sweep,
Not in my castle on a cloud.
There is a room that’s full of toys,
There are a hundred boys and girls,
Nobody shouts or talks too loud,
Not in my castle on a cloud.
There is a lady all in white,
Holds me and sings a lullaby,
She’s nice to see and she’s soft to touch,
She says “Cosette, I love you very much.”
I know a place where no one’s lost,
I know a place where no one cries,
Crying at all is not allowed,
Not in my castle on a cloud.
there is a castle on a cloud,
I like to go there in my sleep,
aren;t any floors for me to sweep,
Not on my castle on a cloud
There is a room that’s full of toys,
There are a hundred boys and girls,
Nobody shouts or talks too loud,
Not in my castle on a cloud.
There is alady all in white,
Holds me and sings a lullaby,
She’s nice to see and she’s soft to touch,
She says ” Cosette, I love you very much.”
I know a place where no one’s lost,
I know a place where no one cries,
Crying at all is not allowed,
Not in my castle on a cloud.
LOL
Oh boy, here we go. Suguta’s experiment only proves that Indian children with no education or no means for it have a thirst for knowledge. Well, Duh. In two months, he saw children playing games on his machine. And there you have it.
We just gave freshman laptops in our county, and next year, grades 6-12 will be given Chromebooks. I say this with unwaivered clarity…high school students spend more than 80 percent of their time playing games or social networking. It might be closer to 90 percent. The remaining 10-20 percent is school-related.
Zak: thank you for another missive from Planet Reality. You have just described how the not so subtle thrust of the edupreneurial strain of “technofuturists” and “gadget worshippers” [thank you Western Dan and Michael Fiorillo!] is to create consumers (“playing games and social networking”).
Schoolwork? You mean, besides copy-and-paste ‘scholarship’? That is so, like, twentieth century, gag us with a cagebusting innovaty spoonful of $tudent $ucce$$, why don’t you?
And I refer everyone once again to Dienne’s comment above re the article from the 1920s magazine about how radio was going to revolutionize the classroom.
How did we miss that revolution too?
😦
KTA,
Similar name wrong attribution.
Duane
I’m sure there are other great ideas deserving on $1 million. Anyone know how he got the award? Gates, by any chance?
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/a-team-approach-to-get-students-college-ready/?src=me&ref=general Blue Engine, a Brooklyn-based non-profit introduces college graduates as teachers aides, with a 1-6 ratio. Employment and experience, a far cry from Mitra’s pie-on-the-sky experiments.
I went to a meeting about this just yesterday. Luckily some of the techs there had some good questions. It was a meeting about Illini Cloud and ISLE with leads directly to inBloom. It seems they are trying to replace Google with their own data base and at the same time gather all the data they can on students.
Opening the show with the idea that they could be collecting data Womb to Tomb was not a great start to a meeting with a group of tech coordinators. Tech people understand the need for privacy online better than most. A few more questions from the techs and the person trying to sell ISLE to us (even though it’s free) skipped ahead to a slide that dealt with the current rumors going around about inBloom and the B&M Gates foundation, trying to gather student data for ulterior motives. He mentioned ‘online blogger’ who have been painting a very negative and false picture about inBloom and B&M Gates. I could only think it was probably your blog he was talking about…but that said when you have to present disclaimers with your presentation for a free state project, it’s not looking too good.
I think the cloud is very Big Brother and I get the feeling some of the techs in our area do too…but some of them are eating it up like candy and that scares me.
Womb to tomb? Really..so warm and fuzzy. Such concern for our children, teaching and learning. The eduvultures are swarming and our children are the carcasses for their dining pleasure. I would have tried to gather my thought, shamed them loudly and walked out.
Keep your friggin educrap and leave our kids alone. We need to occupy these events.
agreed Linda.
They keep us diverted with one foil after another. None of these options is good or bad in itself, except as it comes to be applied, exploited, or weaponized in actual practice.
The real questions that we need to keep asking are —
Who’s in charge?
And to what purpose?
“weaponized” Great!
ditto, great! accurate
actually is it not a trojan horse? all of it? bad voodoo.
As KTA might say..
game, set and match to Jon!
Thank you!
For all you Trekkies out there, a scene from “The Cloud Minders” —
Im India it is ok, but in the West I wonder why no one talks about health effect for young children from constant use of computers. Think about their eyes, how strained they will be, think about the radiation from the computer screen. We used to have “screen free” weeks at school. Not anymore with common core coming? Just recently all the health professionals were alarming us about the bad effects of the prolonged use of computers.
Why all silent now? What about the dangers of stress that was such a popular topic to talk about? How does it go along with high stress expectations of common core? High stress high-stakes testing?
I wonder how many kids will fall very sick very soon… Diabetes, leikemia, and eyesight problems are just few diseases that will spread right away among the kids with common core.
why is anyone accepting this common core fraud scam? it is the emperors new clothes. time to revolt! leave our kids alone, technology is tied to common core because gates funded everything! he gets money mo money mo money, others get power over our children and easy access to their little vulnerable souls and hearts. its BS!
I bookmarked this and just got to reading it… and unlike virtually all of your commenters I think the answer to your question is “Yes”… I read about Mitra a few months ago and wrote a post after watching a TED talk of his that was posted on my niece’s Facebook page: http://waynegersen.com/2012/11/25/education-as-a-self-organizing-system/
Here’s the concluding paragraph of the blog post, which explains why I answered “Yes”:
“Younger tech savvy teachers like my niece, who are frustrated by the pace of change in public education, will be drawn to charter schools that embrace the use of technology and those charter schools, be they for profit or non-profit, will increase their market share by attracting parents who see their children stymied by a system that feeds them a curriculum designed to increase test scores instead of a curriculum that quenches their thirst for learning.”
On the other hand, someone in authority, (like say if Linda Darling Hammond led USDOE instead of Arne Duncan) might replace the tests that reformers love with some kind of system that values individualization over regimentation. In that case schools would be using technology to customize education and make it possible for students to explore information THEY want to learn instead of learning how to pass tests on information we think they should all know at a certain age.
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