I realize this is a dangerous question to raise but I can’t help but raise it. I expect I’ll be swamped with vicious comments by Trumpers. I can live with that.
Did Putin rig the election??
I don’t have a smoking gun. I don’t have evidence.
I have questions and concerns. For now, I still have free speech.
Yesterday the New York Times published an article about Russia’s interference in the election to help Trump, and it said that they don’t bother anymore to cover their tracks. Putin “joked” that he endorsed Kamala but he was all in for his good friend Trump.
In the final days before Tuesday’s vote, Russia abandoned any pretense that it was not trying to interfere in the American presidential election.
The Kremlin’s information warriors not only produced a late wave of fabricated videos that targeted the electoral process and the Democratic presidential ticket but also no longer bothered to hide their role in producing them.
Writing in The Intercept, James Risen warned that Putin would pull out all the stops in his efforts to help elect Trump. Putin wants to rebuild the Soviet Empire, and Trump won’t stand in his way. Risen wrote a few days before the election:
Putin’s ambitions require that he makes certain that the United States doesn’t try to stop him from rebuilding his empire. So he has sought to aid Trump, who has created damaging political chaos in America and who opposes U.S. involvement in NATO and Ukraine and who has proven to be easily manipulated by the Russian dictator.
Leading Russian ideologues have crowed about “their” victory, according to the Washington Post:
“We have won,” said Alexander Dugin, the Russian ideologue who has long pushed an imperialist agenda for Russia and supported disinformation efforts against Kamala Harris’s campaign. “ … The world will be never ever like before. Globalists have lost their final combat,” he wrote on X.
Trump warned repeatedly that the election would be rigged.
Was it?
We know that Putin wanted Trump to win.
We know that Russia was helping Trump before the election.
We know that Putin had more riding on the outcome of this election than anyone in the world, including Trump.
We know that Putin is ruthless.
We know that Putin’s biggest headache is Ukraine.
We know that Trump has promised to abandon Ukraine.
We can expect that Trump will lift the economic sanctions on Russia.
We know that Russia has highly advanced technological capacity.
Does it make sense that Trump’s rabid base is now a majority of voters?
Does it make sense that Kamala Harris received 10-15 million fewer votes than Biden?
Does it make sense that the gender gap shrank this year, post-Dobbs?
Does 2+2=4?
Diane Ravitch's blog 
I think 10 million fewer votes for Democrat candidate than in 2020 is way too much to put off to Putin puppets.
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10 million fewer votes for Dems strikes me as very suspicious. Unlikely.
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Diane: If terrorism and lies work so well, in my fantasy land, Biden shakes hands with Trump in public, and just after walking back through the doors, grabs him and pushes him against the wall with something sharp against his throat and tells him that, if he abandons NATO and Ukraine, a bunch of people that he knows is going to “abandon” him and his family like Putin “abandons” his retractors.
In my fantasy, Trump spends the rest of his life in fear, looking over his shoulder and losing sleep. CBK
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yes because you cheated in 2020!!!! How can you not see the answer to your own question!!!
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People are forgetting the vote count is ongoing.
I don’t know how many votes are left to count, but as of November 8, 2020, Biden had 75 million votes and Trump had 71 million.
As of today, Trump has 73 million and Harris has 69 million.
Turnout does not look as anomalous as many seem to think. It definitely appears to be lower than 2020, but 2020 was a historic year for turnout.
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Let’s not forget that the Democratic candidate couldn’t even make it to Iowa when she ran for president in 2020. It’s hard for people to take her seriously. Even David Brooks thinks that the Democrats need a Bernie Sanders type Revolution. Sure, there was probably some Russian meddling and there was probably even more Israeli meddling. But, let’s ask: Where is the evidence? Instead of speculating. Why didn’t the Russians meddle in 2020? Anyone find those Pee Pee tapes yet?
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Diane: Ditto that thinking here, including the reticence to becoming too present in this window between Biden and Trump. (Terror works, just like lies and disinformation.)
I am livid about having the guts torn out of America by a madman supported by another madman who only differs by having had his hateful viciousness turned into bloodlust and then into a habit. CBK
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Trump will be our “sun king” thanks to The Supreme Court.
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Retired: With SCOTUS’ immunity doctrine, coupled with the immediacy of a madman’s desires and fears, they may be pressing the hard-won civility of the democratic spirit to a breaking point for way too many people. The only way to curb Trump’s insanity, especially on the international scene, and to stop the end-run of everyone living in a Putinesque totalitarian state, is basically to deliberately set aside the rule of law in order to save it. CBK
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Remember that votes are still being counted, so the number of votes each candidate got will continue to increase.
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FLERP! Yawn. CBK
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I wouldn’t stress over it too much, Diane. I’ve looked to Bernie Sanders and labor pundits for a better explanation. And considering the dismal track record of the New York Times on reporting on matters regarding Russia, from Steel Dossier, prospects for Ukraine, to the bounty on American soldiers hoax, you’ll only enable the Democrats to continue their denial and tone-deafness to the working class.
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Bernie Sanders blames identity politics.
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hard to see what’s pessimistic about waking up the Democrats to who really runs their party. Change can’t happen until they see the Democratic Party is just another tool of the oligarchs.
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John, that’s a hopeless view that leads to apathy not action
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Probably the most surefire bet of election meddling you’ll find for Israel.
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I think it was entirely due to the Democrats’ lack of literal on-the-ground organizational skills. Those buses full of undocumented immigrants didn’t get to all the necessary polling places on time. Why? We can only speculate: Ran out of gas, faulty directions, drivers who didn’t show up for whatever reason, drove their routes on the wrong day, immigrants too busy taking Black jobs or too busy collecting welfare checks…. You decide.
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William: Get out of here.
BTW, it’s already illegal for non-citizens to vote. But worse, you seem to forget that TRUMP bent a lot of arms in Congress to kill the bi-partisan immigration bill, precisely because he knew he could run against Biden better if it didn’t pass — like the rest of the Trump electorate, either you have a short memory or a deliberate ignorance. I”ll guess. You choose. CBK
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Thank you for your cute bigotry. It really does make the world a better place.
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I have to agree with you, Diane. It’s all VERY suspicious to me. My guess is that, at the very least, Putin taught tRump how to rig elections, as they do in Russia, and the GOP was in on it.
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ECE: Maybe that was the big secret Trump was hinting at between him and the leader of the Senate. The deck was already stacked–wouldn’t surprise me. In fact, it would surprise me to find that it wasn’t rigged. CBK
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CBK, Excellent point about that big secret! At the time, it had sounded to me like he’d come very close to saying the quiet part out loud, as he often does, but someone told him to definitely not to tell (maybe Putin).
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ECE: It’s one of their flaws–like children, they get giddy and cannot keep a secret, well . . . secret.
Though it’s not really a “flaw.” Rather, it’s a built-in guardrail that comes with being immature and so incapable of adult thinking that might avoid self-destructive thought. CBK
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Here’s The NY Times on the issue of Russian meddling:
“In the final days before Tuesday’s vote, Russia abandoned any pretense that it was not trying to interfere in the American presidential election.
The Kremlin’s information warriors not only produced a late wave of fabricated videos that targeted the electoral process and the Democratic presidential ticket but also no longer bothered to hide their role in producing them.
A fabricated interview claiming election fraud in Arizona was conducted by the director of a Kremlin think tank, Mira Terada, who returned to Russia in 2021 after serving a prison sentence in the United States for money laundering. Another video on Rumble, the video-sharing platform, targeted the Democratic vice-presidential nominee and featured John Mark Dougan, a former deputy sheriff from Florida who had previously denied working for the Kremlin’s propaganda apparatus.
What impact Russia’s information campaign had on the outcome of this year’s race, if any, remains uncertain. There is no doubt, though, that it reflected an increasingly brazen effort by the Kremlin, one that has left the American government with little to do to except to rebut the falsehoods as they gain popularity. More than one official compared it to the arcade game Whac-a-Mole.
This year’s election underlined how much foreign interference — and disinformation generally — has become baked into American politics. Increasingly unfettered social media platforms like X and Telegram, along with the country’s constitutional protections of free speech, have opened the door for foreign influence, even if American law prohibits it.
“The flood of disinformation from Russian troll farms is just seemingly part of the overarching information environment,” said Chris Krebs, who served as the director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency during President-elect Donald J. Trump’s first term, only to be fired when he called the last election fairly run.
For Russia’s leader, Vladimir V. Putin, the campaign was a risk, but clearly one he was willing to take. He has long brushed aside accusations of interference or interest in the outcome of American presidential politics — even joking at one point that he favored Vice President Kamala Harris. While many of Russia’s efforts presumably remain in the shadows, the ones made public as the campaign reached a climax left no plausible or even implausible deniability of Russia’s role.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/07/technology/russia-us-election-interference.html
You have to wonder how many right-wingers, from Joe Rogan to Tucker Carlson to all the fringe players, picked up the Russian disinformation and spread it.
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Your intuition is SPOT on.
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Good post Dianne. All the stuff about why the Democrats lost and what Biden or the Harris campaign should have differently glides right over this critical fact.
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Thanks, Mark. The gender gap was smaller than in 2016 or 2020. I can’t believe that American women stopped caring about abortion.
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The fact that the gender gap is smaller amazes me given the extreme invective against women from the Trump campaign. I truly thought that because of that the older women would save us from him.
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Looking at exit pill cross tabs. Harris actually got a higher share of white women (and white men for that matter) and black women than Biden did in 2020. But big decline in Latina women (69% in 2020 down to 61% in 2024). Similar declines for “other” women.
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The poll I saw showed that Trump won a majority of white women.
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Yes, but it was a smaller share than in 2020. Same with white men.
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One ironic twist is that Latino men favored Trump in the election, but in Mexico’s recent election the new president of Mexico is a Mexican-Jewish woman, Claudia Sheinbaum.https://www.npr.org/2024/09/29/nx-s1-5129899/claudia-sheinbaum-will-be-mexicos-first-president-with-jewish-heritage
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Actually there has finally been some disaggregated data on the “Latino” vote. Mexican American’s vote was 62%-35% for Harris. (Highest of any Latino subgroup except “Other”, which was 66%-33% for Harris.
Americans of Cuban descent went for Trump 58% – 40%
(from El Notre Recuerda)
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^sorry for typos
El Norte (and various others)
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American woman did not stop caring about their right to abortion. They do not care about others access to abortion…
And even more shocking undocumented immigrants don’t care about others being deported as long as they are not deported. A jaw dropping segment at the end of Morning Joe on Friday interviewed a Mexican American family. The Parents granted amnesty under Reagan. The father votes for Harris but not enthusiastically . The son votes for Trump. While the mother who also came here ” ILLEGALLY ” in the early 80s , describes current immigrants as all criminals. All criminals except for her undocumented relatives who are good people that Trump is not going to deport .
You can’t make this up. As my Cuban American friend says about her parents who voted for Trump
“After me close the door”
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We can spend hours, days, even years casting blame for Tuesday. Perhaps Putin’s effort had an impact, but the U.S. political behavior over the past decades, and our ongoing demon of bigotry, allowed such interference to have an impact.
I lived in Alabama for 8 years and the rest of my life in the other part of the Southeast. The way Southern polity has worked since our founding is through oppressive manipulation of access to power. It hasn’t been an intellectual enterprise since so many southern politicians throughout history so clearly like mental acuity. SO many southern leaders imply understood, and understand, the value of keeping the electorate preoccupied with trying to make a living. In my first midterm election in Alabama in 2014, barely 30% of the voting eligible population bothered to vote. It is accepted that roughly 60% percent of voters will vote Republican and 40% Democrat in Alabama. The majority doesn’t even bother. This works well for a state that recently had a former governor (Democrat) in jail, Judge Roy Moore removed from his post as Chief Justice of the State Supreme Court, another Governor forced to resign while using state funded phones to communicate with his mistress, and a Speaker of the House sent to jail for bribery. None of this affected the electorate except for the brief moment Doug Jones became Senator in 2018 and lost to that brilliant statesman Tommy Tuberville.
The Alabama model is being applied nationwide now. Around 60% of the US could not afford a $400 emergency while 90% worry over how they are going to afford anything in the future. The result is a citizenry with its nose to the grindstone, turning to all sorts of addiction, and basically understanding that no one is coming to the rescue. The top 1% that includes the establishment of both political parties does little to actually deal with the challenges that exist for most of us. The coalition put together by the Harris Campaign would have won easily in the 1970s, but the electorate of the 21st century doesn’t trust the Cheney’s (who sent us to war), well decorated Generals (who wanted to continue the war), or The various former Republican Pod aficionados flooding the airways.
This is where I reject any supposition that “Progressives” were the problem for Democrats. Any objective look at this campaign shows that Progressives were willing to fall into line thinking moderation would get the desired result. Yet, in Michigan, Trump won because Harris advocates went to the state to lecture those Palestinian ex pats and others while supporting Israel no matter what. The conventional wisdom among the Democratic establishment is that things like “The Green New Deal” are poison pills when most of the parts of that legislation would be popular among Americans should Democrats choose to support it. iu don’t think the wealthy Democrats really want to change to alternative forms of energy because it would hurt their bottom line.
Around 15 million chose to stay home Tuesday. I wonder if they would have voted if they believed we would actually take on climate, reform our criminal justice system, or make our tax system equitable? I cannot count the number of times Is saw the Harris ad promising a tax cuts for the middle class. Do you think anyone actually believed that was going to happen?
Our political establishment, both Republican and Democratic, shows little regard for the potential or intelligence of the American electorate. Both parties fall over themselves to promise goodies for their various constituencies and rarely deliver. As the educated classes publish on substack and pat themselves on the back with clever podcasts with paywalls, community, engagement, and governance become afterthoughts.
Yeah, Putin could have played a role, but so did a growing oligarchy of misbehaving nihilists who grift the meat off the bone of American ingenuity and prosperity. The entire crisis we face in public education, health care, and housing all come from this.
My fear is that we are about to follow the model that brought the world into the 20th century that led to 2 world wars, countless revolutions toward oppression, and thus unimaginable suffering and death. The forces fighting corruption accepted the fact that political violence and untenable alliances were necessary as the citizens of the world endured untold pain.
I personally believe it is time that all of us with any agency take a good hard look in the mirror. It is time that we redefined and reoriented how we seek to educate. How we choose to integrate with fellow citizens. We will not, under the current circumstances, be able to hold the forces of greed to account. What we can do is energetically pursue better with the resources we do have while pursuing a a more perfect union?
I’m tired of good ideas falling to the wayside when they are labeled progressive or even conservative. I’m sick of our binary definition of political one upmanship. I want to see a government that understands we have to deal with climate change, take care of the physical and mental health of our citizenry, advocate for responsible government spending, insisting that while we need a strong national defense the Pentagon has to be able to pass an audit, and engage with a dangerous world all at the same time.
Yeah, Putin mattered, but so did American interests who saw this outcome to their benefit. This is a collective failure.
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Paul, you will get none of this under Trump. The big winners are Elon Musk and Peter Thiel:
“I want to see a government that understands we have to deal with climate change, take care of the physical and mental health of our citizenry, advocate for responsible government spending, insisting that while we need a strong national defense the Pentagon has to be able to pass an audit, and engage with a dangerous world all at the same time.”
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That’s my point. There are many involved with our current political stew. There are global alliances forming as we speak that ally with Putin and his interests. Meanwhile, those who advocate for democracy seem timid in response. I am devastated by Tuesday’s result. Perhaps this was simply an exercise in getting it off of my chest. The American electorate represents a complex organism driven by numerous interests. Perhaps we stopped treating them as either or. We are now moving into a dangerous outcome that could really cause our country to fracture.
I listened Chris Hayes latest podcast on the growing divide between those with a college degree and those without. While I am struggling to pay off education debt for my three children, it strikes me that moving education toward opportunity for the prosperous while making it unreachable for everyone else, we intensifying disunion. One point I tried to make in my missive is how much of the population feels beyond the culture issues. The Democratic Party has failed to understand or take advantage of those feelings. Enough of our electorate sees little difference in our parties which allows misinformation to be effective.
Yes, I agree. None of the things I posted will come to fruition through Trump and his minions. The Democrats need to figure out why too few believe they will do any differently. By the way, I think Biden got this and his legislation was a move in the right direction. However, there was no evidence that his alliance understood how to make this evident to American citizens. When Obama lost much of his coalition during both of his midterm elections, it was because the Democratic Party chose to separate from the work of their President. Perhaps if Harris had whole heartedly bragged about the progress being made in their administration, people would have been more interested.
The results of this election just give credence to Putin’s and our oligarchy’s cynicism about democratic governance. I keep hoping they are wrong.
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After the bills Biden passed, how does one not believe that Kamala would follow through on her plans if she had a Congress willing to work with her. Just look at what Biden managed to pass. If Bernie Sanders got his wet dream, we would not see the impact of those changes for years. If there is anything that trickles down, it is the progress that government makes with legislation and its implementation. I am still waiting for my meds to cost less. How long do you think that will take? The first ten drugs get cut this coming year. Then of course are the things that Biden got blamed for that are/were beyond his control. Trump, I believe, has been stupid enough to say he will take care of it. Of course, we know he never had any intention of doing so.
We have got to figure out how to deal with disinformation. Trump and his sycophants have been yelling fire in the theater for years. it’s no longer free speech if you are causing egrgious harm to others.
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Well said. The American middle class has been on a downward trajectory since the 1980s. The working class is tired of waiting for Democrats to make substantial changes. Both parties abandoned blue collar workers and young people. They are angrier at Democrats because they have felt betrayed by them multiple times so they decided to “burn it all to the ground,” although I think sexism and racism was played a role in the shift as well. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/11/why-donald-trump-won-election-white-house/
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Even if media could reach beyond its echo chamber to inform, people have been voting against their self-interest for decades. Nobody ever voted for revolution. Never gonna happen either. At least, since Citizens United. And it is well to remember the observation of Paulo Freire in Pedagogy of the Oppressed, that the peasants he observed did not dream of an egalitarian society so much as they wished to change places with their oppressors. I share your dreams of an economically equitable society, but for now, the decks are stacked for an outright battle.
Because a shockingly large number of citizens in this country do not vote. Not because they think there is no party that will actually change their lives, but they don’t think about politics at all. There are people, intelligent people even, who are wrapped up in a small world of concern — the world of family and day-to-day life. I know people who rarely catch the news (and I suspect are happier for it). Perhaps we could try making a law requiring voting, as in Australia. I understand there is very little in the way of enforcement there but it does encourage some people who do not like to break the law. Again, a tough battle with the minority party.
But for my bit of Sunday night quarterbacking, it is my opinion that if Trump’s opponent had been a man, he would have won. There, I’ve said it. And not even a white man – Obama won twice. Trump has run three times and the only time he lost was when the opponent was male. Maybe the Democrats should realize you can’t beat visceral with reason.
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Well reasoned. As Yuval Harari has toured the country for his new book Nexus, he frequently talks of the massive upheavals that have come with revolutionary changes in forms of communication. I think we are at that point now. Reason has become too comfortable and suffering has continued to grow. The next conflagration will not be the result of uprisings from the oppressed, but fighting among the wealthy over the scraps.
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The anti-incumbent sentiment was world wide. There were a few outliers, but pretty much the same thing happened throughout the globe. People at US exit polls said they weren’t happy, so I think it’s most likely that they voted for change.
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Well, David, Stupid does as Stupid is; and at least half of the American people have shown themselves to be politically ignorant, having treated their freedom as if it were endless and free.
Democracy is not a suicide pack, . . . unless ignorant people are let out to vote. CBK
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Sorry if you are looking for someone who had real impact to blame. Start with CNN and the NYT. Add in MSNBC How was it Morning in America in 1983 with 7 % unemployment and 4.3 percent inflation with wages lagging far behind inflation. Yet a terrible economy today that is the envy of the world. Unemployment 4% inflation at 2.4 % and wages exceeding inflation for those that need it most.
Why am J still hearing about the price of gas. At $2.80
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4.3 percent inflation in 1983 was fantastic news to anyone who was alive in 1980.
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And 2.4 % down from 9% ,with historically low unemployment for the longest period since 1965 . As the majority of workers especially those that needed it most in the bottom 4 quintiles saw wage increases that exceeded inflation was not good news.
There is a reason that inflation adjusted sales are up When consumers are hurting they stop spending they don’t spend more
With all the BS Gross median real income is up. And homeownership is up. There’s are nuances there but it is up.
How long did inflation stay higher than it was in 2023 ? The answer was till 1996 as incomes lagged behind costs. Killing the Father knows best single income household
The ignorance of the voting public is profound they deserve everything that is coming to them
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Yes but that 9% skyrocketed from ~1.4% a year earlier. Whereas inflation had been steadily rising for several years before peaking in 1980. So in 2021, voters who were used to decades of relatively low inflation saw inflation suddenly go to levels unseen in 40 years, and although the rate declined, prices didn’t. So the shock stuck. In the Reagan years, by contrast, voters who had been watching inflation skyrocket for several years saw that trend reversing. That’s why 4% inflation felt better to most people in 1983 than 2.4% inflation feels to people today.
People are ignorant for sure. I’m ignorant about many things myself!
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The last time prices declined in mass was 1929. What fell with prices was wages as they have to. Sure there is some room to cut profit margins. But wages is the big one. My House was 66k in 1982 . 181 k in1986. Wages catch up. In this case they caught up in record time .Inflation was a one time shock experienced by the whole world as Covid induced disruption to the World Economy took hold.
The biggest factor creating it was not the measly 10k that went to workers to make up for lost incomes but the massive shifts in spending habits by households that had been effectively locked in for over a year . Not going to restaurants, theaters , on vacations. Many working from home saving on everything from transportation to haircuts. They saved boat loads of money and spent it on goods. Then in late 2021 into 2022 they shifted that spending to services and things like air travel went through the roof. With historical employment levels there was no one to fill the millions of jobs when older employees packed it in and retired early. From truckers to Airline pilots from waiters to teachers there were shortages that gave those workers the opportunity for phenomenal raises that surpassed inflation.
in every economy no matter how good there is still a relatively large portion who are not doing well. Ie Union Construction in NYC as I mentioned earlier. And many others who were not doing well in 2019 or 1965. Remember the war on poverty when America was Great? Doing better than 2019 does not mean that they were doing well then or now but most are not worse off
The Housing crisis long predates Covid. The media hyped inflation far beyond reality. Corporate America took the cue and hiked margins as consumers were primed by the media to expect higher costs and had the income to pay those prices
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I agree price declines are very rare, and they are almost always bad. But most people don’t understand this.
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Bingo! It’s the main stream media. They made Trump and Harris appear as equals….seized on tiny things she may have said that could be perceived as negative and ignored all the crazy he spewed. It should have been front page news and on every program that Mike Pence and all the others in his admin publicly denounced him.
Owners of these media outlets must have a vested interest to shape what is amplified and what is swept under the carpet.
I regularly watch morning Joe. If I did not, even tuning into NPR would not have made me as aware as I was.
I certainly don’t have time to watch Trump rally’s or listen to extreme right podcasts. If I had only tuned into nightly news and listed to npr…. I wouldn’t have had the same perspective without Mika and team.
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Joel,
Correct. I am positive that there will be no bad news about the economy once Trump takes over. Inflation can go up, unemployment can rise, the deficit can explode, gas prices and food prices can rise, and there will be thousands of articles about how Americans think the economy is great.
The legacy media has long decided their job is to tell voters what other voters who “coincidentally” confirm the right wing narrative think. It’s not their business to inform voters of what is true if the truth doesn’t favor the Republicans.
The ones who don’t think the economy is great suddenly will be invisible. And eventually, after hearing “everyone” says the economy is great, they will even start to believe it.
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As usual Dean Baker cuts through the hype. It is not what people say it is what the do that counts.
https://cepr.net/four-more-items-in-the-wages-outpacing-prices-debate/
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Putin has had a lot of time to figure out our system of government and elections. He’s also had more time to school tRump on how he could form his own government here, like Putin did in Russia. He might have even used simple color-coded flash cards, as European Commissioner Juncker did to teach trump about trade. See: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-juncker-trade-us-eu-trade-tariffs-white-house-meeting-flashcards-a8467051.html
Of primary importance would be including the oligarchy, since it was a huge part of how Putin managed to become so wealthy by taking over what had been previously owned by the state under the Soviet Union (as in virtually everything), as well as being critical for retaining his power (they were friends who he made rich). So he probably told tRump to be friendly to, form alliances with and make promises to those in America who are in a race to become the first trillionaire. tRump might have even assured them that it would be best for them to be on his side before the election, by saying he had ways of knowing that he’d definitely be winning this time:
Elon Musk √
Jeff Bezos √
If you think everything is on the up and up, then why were some of tRump’s rallies lately poorly attended, such as this: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-rally-full-empty-seats-1235151596/
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And this: https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-met-empty-seats-final-rallies-1979972
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ECE: The difference in rally attendance was really remarkable–a clue to something . . . what, I don’t know; but it would fit better with election corruption that with the idea that nothing nefarious occurred, Russian or not. The other thing is that it fits with Trump . . . like a glove. CBK
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Up until Tuesday, the pre-election polls that I saw were showing them neck and neck, and often with Harris ahead, That does not jive with the outcome numbers we’ve seen afterwards. I realize that often polls are inaccurate, but I don’t know what would explain such a huge disparity.
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ECE: Me either. I wonder if others with agency are involved in this potential unfolding set of insights? CBK
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I think the polling was actually pretty good actually. This outcome was not a blowout. It was very tight and within the margin of error on the national polls average. Interestingly, the likely final outcome of the election—Harris with 226 electoral votes—was the most common outcome in the simulations run by Nate Silver. He nailed it as much as a probability-based analysis can nail it.
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Flerp: what you say is probably true (I believe you), but it doesn’t account for the other anomalies of the data and experiences that everyone could observe.
In fact, the closeness of the polls was what (it was said earlier somewhere or other) what Putin et al would be looking for precisely because the closeness wouldn’t take much manipulation to push the count over to their side–which “oddly,” turned out to be a hell of a lot more votes than the polls suggested all along or as others here have pointed out, are so out of whack with past elections where Trump was involved–and across the board in every swing state.
And if Trump were trustworthy in the first place, none of us here would be raising such questions. We’ve all accepted political loss before, even when the Bush team actually did manipulate to steal the election from Gore. CBK
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I’m simply saying the polling was not way off.
At the risk of making you yawn, I would say that suspecting without evidence that the election was rigged because it didn’t turn out how we expected is not good analysis.
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FLERP: True to form, if you think what you said, you haven’t been reading the notes here (as closely as you could or should). You seem to continually overlook important nuances that would totally change your view if you changed your depth of attention and method.
It IS what Trump does, but not here. Exploration is not a done-deal judgment. The difference is I care who won, but I still want it to be a fair election. Big difference.
Yawn. CBK
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I knew it was risky!
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I don’t want to make light of the situation, but I am reminded of Lucy pulling the football away just before Charlie Brown went to kick it . . . AGAIN. CBK
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Nate Silver’s analysis looks just as close as what I was seeing, but to me, the results don’t look nearly that close.
https://www.natesilver.net/p/nate-silver-2024-president-election-polls-model
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If you’re looking at the popular vote, don’t forget the margin for sampling error (~3% in either direction) and also the fact that there are millions of votes that haven’t been counted, with most of them in states that went for Harris. California, for example, has only counted 2/3 of its votes. So the popular vote tally likely will narrow.
If you’re looking at electoral votes, these are all within the margins of error on state by state polls.
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I think we would be remiss to overlook important discrepancies, especially when they involve a guy for whom there is significant evidence indicating that he has cheated virtually his entire life.
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Let’s march on the Capitol!
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ECE: In my view, your account is pretty good evidence to consider–not yet closure, but good anyway. And I certainly have see NO EVIDENCE of some sort of transformation in Trump that would account for a change of the way he has done things all of his life–on the contrary.
How many psychologists, judges, social scientists, historical-political writers does it take to convince people that there is no trust to be had in one’s analysis of Trump’s potential to lie and cheat–about the most important things in his life–keeping him from going to jail, getting (temporary) swoons from other dictators, money, and getting back at his (perceived) enemies? CBK
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FLERP! You said, “suspecting without evidence that the election was rigged because it didn’t turn out how we expected is not good analysis.”
I don’t know CBK’s background but her input and analysis seem rational and insightful to me.
Also, Diane, who raised the matter of the 10 million vote discrepancy as being suspicious, and I, who agreed, both have PhDs, so we are not very likely to posit a theory just because the election “didn’t turn out how we expected.” (We are also very capable of recognizing and engaging in “good analysis.”) Yes, it is possible the issue is due to our not knowing all of the numbers yet, but the polls seemed misleading, too, so many people have been very surprised by the election results that were reported.
Knowing the history of the candidate suggests that nothing unethical is beyond him, so being leery seems called for as well. But, yes, we’ll have to see what the final numbers are.
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There’s no evidence that the election was rigged. Not only that, there’s no theory about how it could have been rigged. On top of that, as I’ve tried to point out, the vote gap between 2024 and 2020 has been narrowing and will continue to narrow. (We have short memories—nobody seems to remember how Biden’s popular vote lead grew and grew after Election Day 2020 as more votes were counted.) In my view, which everyone is free to reject, believing that the election was rigged is very bad analysis.
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FLERP you write: “There’s no evidence that the election was rigged. Not only that, there’s no theory about how it could have been rigged. On top of that, as I’ve tried to point out, the vote gap between 2024 and 2020 has been narrowing and will continue to narrow. (We have short memories—nobody seems to remember how Biden’s popular vote lead grew and grew after Election Day 2020 as more votes were counted.) In my view, which everyone is free to reject, believing that the election was rigged is very bad analysis. No one believes it (automatically, as you seem to think).”
Evidence is clued, though often not so obvious at first. (Ask any scientist or critical thinker about this point.) Also, I don’t hear anyone here saying they (nor I) “believe the election was rigged.” A good and thorough analysis comes BEFORE either believing or passing judgment . . . either way.
In this case, if someone with agency and access to information that we do not have, finds evidence or searches and can find none, it will come out at some point–just like any qualified discovery process.
In the case of what I have seen and know about Trump, I think there is good reason (as suggested in my notes above) to keep the questions on the table, so to speak), again, BEFORE believing or passing judgment. You need not search of even watch. But jumping to believe OR to pass a judgment is the method of a closed mind–from logic in science and critical thinking courses I once took, and the method of thinking has served me well for years–so that I am always regretful when I stray from it. But don’t tell me I am just believing as a bad way to analyze. That would be a bad judgment on your part.
Diane: If the above seems to you that I am picking a fight with Flerp, it’s not my intention. Nor was I merely believing that the election was rigged. CBK
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We disagree, Catherine. It is what it is.
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Diane: Well . . . speaking of truth, I did get tired of being misinterpreted in a negative way almost every time I write something–like the charge of believing something I do not believe, then the judgment that I am doing bad analysis.
I am still left with not understanding what you mean, but you need not explain further. Maybe it’s just a bad time right now and everyone is angry over what we’ve been through, especially if (as I have seen here and elsewhere) when someone wants to dance on the grave of those who lost so much in the election. CBK
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FLERP,
You say there’s no evidence that the election was rigged but the perfect rigging leaves no tracks.
We know that Putin has very advanced hacking teams. We know how important it is to him to elect Trump.
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I don’t think these voting machines are “hackable.” No internet connection.
I get that people are shocked by this outcome (I am not shocked, although I am depressed). But this talk about election rigging, which I’m seeing more and more of on Twitter, is very Giuliani-esque in my opinion.
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Nobody said we “believe” anything. We said it’s “suspicious” to us. Knowing the history of Putin’s involvement in our elections, I suggested how that might be the case now as well and discussed possibilities, because it is suspicious to me right now. I don’t just accept everything that I’m told at face value, especially regarding important matters, without considering options.
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ECE: Exactly that–in this case, reasonable suspicion. CBK
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Flerp! wrote, “(We have short memories—nobody seems to remember how Biden’s popular vote lead grew and grew after Election Day 2020 as more votes were counted.)”
I never knew. I have a digestive disorder that kept me working from home the last 12 years of my career and on that election day, I was sick as a dog. That was because I stopped taking my meds (which had controlled my disorder somewhat) due to not being able to handle the side effect anymore (blurred vision). I melted down further when tRump declared himself the winner, and I quit my job (and retired), as I honestly thought I was dying. I was in bed for weeks after that, so I have no idea how long it took for the numbers to come in –I just knew that it was really Biden who won.
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Sorry to hear about all that, ECE, and I hope you’re doing better these days.
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I wouldn’t say rigged, but meddled for sure. Rigged implies he overtly & physically manipulated voting machines or other systems. Meddled means he flooded mis- & dis-information into the country via various media, which manipulated low-information voters into believing all of the nonsense that convinced them that the Dems were bad & Repubs were good, to put it simply. Black & white is easier for the masses to digest than nuance & reason.
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Loved2teach: Trump’s low rally attendance might flow from meddling, but it doesn’t work if you assume that the bad attendance was about a turn in Trump support to the worse.
Whereas, fixing voting machines or some other kind of behind-the-scenes tech activity, fits with serious rigging techniques where the low attendance had no implications or effect on the voting which was already stacked to put Trump ahead. CBK
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D,
I wouldn’t be surprised if he did. Afterall, US Intel has confirmed constant Russian disinformation meddling. But also, look what’s happening to other states around the world. In Canada, Trudeau’s government is polling at an all time low, so is Germany’s–both with heavily money-backed (most likely Sino-Russian) far-right players jockeying for positions to take over. This is not a coincidence. In Germany’s case, I suppose it’s Putin’s reverse retro for Germany’s sponsorship of Lenin over a hundred years ago. Nonetheless, Orwell’s three global superstate geopolitical arrangement will materialize. Ukraine will fall asunder, followed by Eastern Europe again, if not all of Europe; China will invade Taiwan (maybe annex Japan while they’re at it). Now, we could ask ourselves, “why didn’t more Americans care about what possibly could happen globally given the election’s results?” A conversation in which I partook with two colleagues said, “You know what? Actually, Russia has won the Cold War, don’t you think?” To which the other responded, “Yep, and Osama bin Laden has won the Global War On Terror because we are so distrustful, fearful and hateful towards one another through his thousand little cuts that he knew we’d inflict on ourselves from within.” As Kurt Vonnegut said, “And so it goes….”
So let’s brace for it: unions, Social Security, Medicare–all the good things our government has managed, for better or worse, to maintain for everyday people will be stripped away. Unions through legislation and SCOTUS rulings will be declared illegal and a federal crime to form one. S.S. and Medicare will be privatized and just given to banks. Our teachers’ pensions will be liquidated and given to businesses and banks. Our National Parks will be either sold off to private vendors/dispersed to the states to run with private contractors or just sold off completely for development and industry. And lastly, public education: goodbye. It’s all school choice with easily replaceable teachers making 40k to start and stay at for life with no pension or healthcare, and DEFINITELY no due process rights or tenure, highly circumscribed and scripted lessons on Bible verses and shunning secular writing lest we want at a trip to whenever our own Dachau will open up. Hitler was sworn in January 30, 1933. That March 22, Dachau received its first truckload of prisoners. If things play out as intended by the president-elect and his cabal, we will be looking at a similar scenario.
Lewis Powell’s clarion to call to arms for American Business in August of 1971 has paid off: Neoliberal Capitalism has triumphed. We will now sink into an Autocratic Oligarchy, a hyperconstricting corporate surveillance state out of Oceania (Orwell references are no longer trite, cliche or hackneyed–he was spot on and any grief he got for his prophecy, his doomsaying, has now been vindicated). In other words, we are still paying for Democracy’s “excesses” of the Sixties–today’s generations that had absolutely nothing to do with events 50-60 years ago are undeservedly paying the price for “Too Much Democracy” of that time–so much perceived excess Democracy to scare some obscure Big Tobacco lawyer into laying the groundwork for the eventual destruction of a Democratic-system-with-checked-Capitalism that offered hope, security and enough for everyone–but only everyone utilized and applied any and all opportunities to work hard to achieve it a la James Truslow. But instead, what is now coming? Bannon, Musk and Peter Thiel are all on board to tear down our entire social structure and not replace it–REBUILD it anew with totalizing blind and forced obedience to the Dollar, John Galt, and God.
National Democrats and the DNC take the blame for this. Reflecting upon all of it, it confirms why Democrats even bother in the first place: it’s a show, an illusion fostered upon Americans that there is a choice when in reality, there is no choice. Clinton’s selling out of the DNC and the Democratic Party to banks and other corporations in 1992 effectively merged the two parties into one: The Business Party, with two differing managing styles, Republican or Democrat. In agreement with Michael Moore, Democrats are paid to lose–they are paid losers. And guess what: they always will be. May their party hacks and bureaucrats who sold out Americans for their own self-interests and advancement find a nice little cozy coffeehouse corner in a very fiery, infernal place to slow-roast right alongside their political counterparts who will now dismantle our country.
Last but not least: I’m OUT. I am OUT. I am DONE. I am done with American politics. Oh, I’ll pay attention–we need to–in order to prepare for what’s coming down the pike. But during the Biden years, I let my guard down with buying into what the corporate media’s information ecosystem was selling. My instincts for truth and reality were hampered by the hopes stoked by 24/7 clickbait media. I freely admit, I was duped–let’s face it, we all were. For my own sanity and protection, and for the sanity and protection of my small little family, we are retreating from participating in the Digital Communication Ecosphere in order to return to the peace of mind of rogue independence. It’ll be withdrawn, sure–but there was much more clarity of vision there, not to mention quietude.
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I think you nailed it! Especially, about the Clinton politics. Clinton just doubled down on Reagan era policy and sold us out to the banks and continued onward with deregulation of everything. I think Bush tried to hold off the vultures during his Presidency, but 8 yrs of Reagan and the country started partying like it was 1999 and everyone was striving for champagne wishes and caviar dreams.
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Dem’s de-regulation began with Jimmy Carter. So if you want a scapegoat for who turned the LBJ era Democrats into so-called “corporate” ones, blame Carter, not Clinton.
Clinton came into office and immediately tried to get universal health care. The approach was perfectly reasonable, and the reason it failed wasn’t because “they didn’t do it right” but because no way could ever be right. The right wing ran “Harry and Louise” commercials telling Americans that government mandated health insurance would lead to death panels, and Dems got blamed for not magically being able to change the narrative that the media loved to amplify. The fear of “government health insurance” led to Americans voting in the most right wing House of Representatives in modern times, led by Newt Gingrich.
The most powerful propaganda the right wing has is their ability to make people blame the Democrats for what the right wing does.
It’s similar to the way the right wing has somehow been able to convince many in the public to blame union teachers for public school difficulties rather than the fact that the right wing keeps demanding that public schools do much more with much less.
There are two very different parties. The right wing Republicans just realized that as long as they kept obstructing the Democrats from doing anything, people would blame the Dems for not doing anything rather than them. That started at some point in the 1980s, and the right wing has just gotten better and better at it as they realized that the more they obstructed, the more the Dems would be blamed. That’s also partly due to the decline in the legacy media, as they became less and less journalists, and more and more stenographers for the Republican narrative.
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Screeching again! People like you need to take a good look in the mirror to see “why” this election went the way that it did. Policy affects people….and the Dem policies since Clinton haven’t exactly benefitted “We the People”. I went to bed on Tuesday night with my plan, because I knew by listening to the general vibes, that trump would win. I’m just happy that I live in a blue state (even though it’s just outside of DC!) and I will be insulated from some of the tragedy headed down the line.
But keep on screeching so loud that you fail to listen or see other points of view. Keep up the name calling. Keep on telling everyone else how to think and what to think. Keep on with your lack of empathy and you will continue to keep those like trump making decisions for the entire country.
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Actually, LisaM, NYCPAP is spot on about how the GOP prevents Dems from doing anything and then blames them for it. Now Republicans are taking credit for the infrastructure actions resulting from the very same bill they voted against.
I have been crowing (or is it “screeching,” now?) all week about how Gingrich made hyper-partisan and dirty politics mainstream and acceptable by the masses.
Living in a blue state is fine for you, but there are plenty of innocents in red states who will be harmed by this administration. I live in a blue state that has a governor’s race next year, and we stand to lose a lot if the red wave continues its trend. While we currently have a blue majority in our state legislature and federal representation that is blue, the governor will most likely be a Republican because people like balance especially all the Trumpers in a few of our counties. Goodbye pensions. Goodbye women’s rights. Goodbye immigrants. We cannot be complacent in this political climate, blue or not.
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LG, agreed. I remember when Mitch McConnell said–at the start of obama’s tenure-that Republicans would block everything he proposed. I don’t recall Democrats taking that obstructionist posture.
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I don’t know how this person gets away with calling my post “screeching” and launching personal attacks on me just because I politely disagreed with her.
Her posts are right out of the right wing playbook of accusing other people of doing to you what you are doing yourself.
I was not screeching in that comment. If anyone was “screeching”, it was the person who accused me of “screeching” twice, when I was not and she was. She also made all kinds of personal insults, including saying I have a “lack of empathy” (empathy for whom? Trump voters? Germans who voted for Hitler? People who hate the Dems so much that they amplify lies about them?) I have empathy for the people who will be greatly harmed under Trump and Republican rule. So do many Republicans who knew it was wrong to vote for someone as corrupt and unfit as Trump.
Thank you to LG for defending me as most people here seem to think that it is appropriate to treat me this way – it seems to make them even more popular if they can throw in a personal insult directed at me.
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NYCPSP, I absolutely noticed the “screeching” comment which is why I referenced it. Separating the stance from the person is key to a collegial debate.
Have I taken on trolls?Yes, guilty. However you have cemented your place as a legitimate member of the community. Here’s hoping you are not discouraged from lending your thoughts. I always appreciate your passion and attention to detail as with most of our regular commenters.
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It’s possible that Trump won through the Electoral College through the battle ground states. He may have had help in some of those states, but I don’t think he could pull off cheating in all of them. I do think it is suspicious that he won almost all of the battle ground states.
Still, I don’t think Trump winning the popular vote was possible, because the polls for 8 years show that Trump was never popular with the majority. And the gap was still almost 9% up to the election. That 9% translates to about 12,000,000 voters who may or may not have voted. There are always more registered voters than the total that turns out.
Trump won the Electoral College in 2016, while losing the popular vote by almost 3,000,000.
In 2020, he lost both and the popular vote was by about 8,000,000. And that was before January 6, 2021, when Trump became a traitor.
Predictions were that the total vote count for 2024 might reach 161,000,000, a prediction based on the results of the last few elections, including midterms that were breaking voting records each election.
Since the count isn’t done yet, Trump still may lose the popular vote.
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Anyone heard from Bob? I hope he is well….. and not laying in a hospital bed after having a stroke/ heart attack after the Wednesday morning shock.
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LIsaM: My thinking exactly about Bob. CBK
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I dropped him a note on his blog.
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Good afternoon Diane and everyone,
When this planet is a burning cinder and the air, water and earth are polluted, when disease is rampant, the millions and billions of dollars you possess will be worth nothing. Your children and grandchildren will suffer as will you. You may think you can live in your palace but the entire world around you will be destroyed. So what will your greed and self-interest have brought you?
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Mamie: I’ll sign that letter to probably half of the electorate, and all of the billionaires and wealth hoarders; but as far as I can tell, it’s not to me.
BTW ALL, some of the governors (Illinois, California, etc.) are putting up policy sandbags to protect the people of their states from Trump and his policies. I call that the concrete application of hope. CBK
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Flerp: For a minute I thought there was a glimmer–then here comes Flerp with his/her method of jumping to conclusions that suit his/her bias of the day. CBK
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CBK, don’t pick fights with FLERP
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Diane: “Picking fights”? CBK
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CBK,
It’s just not good when commenters go after one another. Argue the points, not the person.
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Diane: I must be slipping. Actually, I feel like biting heads off. Our political floor has left the premises. CBK
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Diane, I think it should go both ways. That’s because the title on this page is your asking, “Did Putin Rig Our Election?” and then when we addressed that, initially FLERP!’s replies were interesting and matter of fact info about numbers. Then they seemed rather dismissive and ultimately what he said felt judgemental personally and rather unkind. I was offended by some of what he said, so I understand why CBK felt that way as well. Though I chose to reply differently, I think she was responding to someone who pushed her buttons, not the one who started it.
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ECE, sorry, I didn’t really mean to offend. I generally try to keep my comments very neutral in tone, but I probably was a bit annoyed for various reasons, and I think that probably did come through in my tone.
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Got it. I’ll warn FLERP too.
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I think I’ve been very level headed in this thread and definitely have not gone after any commenter ad hominem.
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Hello Flerp: A question for you:
Do you think I am (or anyone is) “going after you” to ask that you spread your thinking out so that getting information does not jump so quickly to making judgments, and then to assuming that everyone else needs to stop their questioning because you mistakenly think others merely believe something, or worse, just want it to be the case but with no evidence; whereas it seems to me that you do not want to be bothered by what others think is relevant inquiry, so that further questioning becomes subtly suppressed?
Perhaps I am too sensitive; but I feel that a sense of civility is abandoned when one “goes after” someone by inferring that (1) one (me) merely jumped to believing X and so one states out loud that (2) one is involved in bad analysis? This is how misinformation and suppression gets its start.
Actually, and in this case of questioning the legitimacy of the election, which the thread was about, all those essays about Trump (that are on another thread here), are just more evidence (though logical and even damning, is not yet rock-secure), that it’s more likely than not that meaningful election interference or even control occurred.
This is not Uncle Walt (as in Cronkite) we are talking about here. And for Trump, it’s existential and, worse, for Putin also, considering what he has to gain by Trump’s election. In my view, to just put it aside, would be one of the worst examples of naivete that history has ever offered up. CBK
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Frankly I’m not sure what you’re saying here and I don’t want to upset you further. I do know that lately you’ve taken to making aggressive comments to me out of nowhere (like the other day when I posted a comment that was not addressed to you or anyone specifically and you responded “Wake me up when you say something worth remembering,” or in this thread here, where you responded to a comment of mine with “Yawn.” Ordinarily I wouldn’t complain about that, except now I’m in the rather odd position of being accused of being nasty by a person who was nasty to me when I hadn’t even been addressing her.
Like I said before, we obviously disagree on whether we suspect this election was rigged. Let’s just leave it at that. No need to get personal.
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Hello Flerp: I appreciate your comments; except that the problem didn’t “come out of nowhere,” but rather is recalcitrant. My “bubbling over” finally was because of that recalcitrance (not to mention the horrible context we are all in); and it wasn’t about content as much as general attitude about engaging in civil discourse that emerges in a not-so-covert insult.
On that, out of frustration, I turn to lesser forms of communication to try to get my point across without biting the other person’s head off.
Flerp, even if I caused the initial problem in this case, you still decided that I had no cause to complain about your “fairness” on this thread, even though I explained WHY I was offended at your inferring my belief and “bad analysis.” Also, (I guess) you think we are all immune to others’ comments, even though this is a very public forum.
No matter, how about those Dodgers? CBK
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Until all the ballots are counted, including provisionals that need to be reviewed and decisions made, we will not know if in fact there was a significant fall-off in votes for Harris. As I write this, there are just in PA where I live over 100,000 additional ballots to be gone through, 15-20,000 just in Philly, which is why McCormack & Rs are suing to try to stop them from being counted, since rough estimates make it quite possible Case will keep his Senate seat. There are millions of ballots outstanding in CA and WA, perhaps another 50,000 still in NV. There are sone clear anomalies to be sure, for example, every incumbent Dem in PA House getting reelected yet many of those same voters tilting to Trump, or in MT protecting abortion, raising minimum wage, etc, and Dems picking up seats in state legislature but Harris losing by a huge margin, just to cite two examples. There are several states already within margin for recounts. While I not at this point expect presidential results overall to change, there are certainly questions to be examined.
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the truth tellers aka trolls have been trying to tell you the truth for years lol!!!!! All brainwashed and completely lost in what’s going on. Now we have wars stopping, EU buying gas from us and Trump hires a strong women!!!! Party just getting started here!!!!
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Hay Charlie: Here’s some code translation for you:
“Wars stopping” = Let Putin Win/Kill Zelensky.
“Strong women” . . .
“Secretary” = woman
(. . . to a misogynist from Trump’s early experience of what “secretary” means, e.g., in the TV series “Mad Men.”)
“Trolls’ Truth = Lies, misinformation, detractions, and
projections.
“EU buying gas = YEA! for the oil companies!
“Brainwashed” = Trump voters/MAGA.
But thanks for your input. CBK
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Charlie: An after thought: I guess you passed your idea about “stopping wars” by members of NATO? What a relief for them. Whew. CBK
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Hey Charlie, you are right about one thing: the party is, indeed, just getting started. And you know what? You will get exactly what you voted for, big guy.
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Fact-check: Did 20 million Democratic votes ‘disappear’?
Fact-check: Did 20 million Democratic votes ‘disappear’?
SNIPs, then my comment:
SNIPS:
“Social media posts are claiming that millions of votes are missing and the 2024 election was stolen. Not true.
http://www.msn.com
There is no evidence that any votes disappeared,” or of other fraudulent activity during the 2024 election, Mehta said. He also said he knew of no evidence of attempts — let alone successful efforts — to “hack” or “steal” the election.
Even if such attempts occurred, they would fail, experts said.
“There is no one ‘hack’ to change the outcome of an election or to change vote totals,” Mehta said. “Each state has its own independent, non-connected systems,” and election workers are trained to run elections and fix any issues that arise and take that responsibility seriously.
2024 voter turnout is still being calculated, but fluctuations don’t signal fraud, experts say “There is no evidence that any votes disappeared,” or of other fraudulent activity during the 2024 election, Mehta said. He also said he knew of no evidence of attempts — let alone successful efforts — to “hack” or “steal” the election.
Even if such attempts occurred, they would fail, experts said.
“There is no one ‘hack’ to change the outcome of an election or to change vote totals,” Mehta said. “Each state has its own independent, non-connected systems,” and election workers are trained to run elections and fix any issues that arise and take that responsibility seriously.2024 voter turnout is still being calculated, but fluctuations don’t signal fraud, experts say . . . END SNIPS
My Comments:
This is a well-written and well-resourced article. The irony is that Trump’s lies still won out . . . even when people screamed this BEFORE about the election results, and even though writers continued to write about it and put it before the public for the last four years, Trump kept up The Big Lie, with the fake-press supporting him at every move.
And people continued to believe it, and that the boogeymen democrats were after that poor man-victim. My question that emerges from the above is only whether Trump is a political genius or if the whole thing is a political fluke, that Trump’s timing was flawless by accident, or good planning. My guess is the former.
BTW, Bernie Sanders said, when asked why the democratic party abandoned the middle class, that the democratic party didn’t abandon the middle class, rather, the middle class abandoned the democratic party.
Another point about the fluke: Many who are on the side of abortion rights voted for them as a separate issue on the ticket (it passed in 7 states), then voted for Trump, who will probably initiate a nation-wide abortion ban, if none of the 2025 Margaret Atwood people don’t piss him off.
And then there are the Latinos and “dark-skinned” people who voted for him, even when he derides them every chance he gets–even that comedian at his rally talked about Puerto Rico being a “floating island of garbage.” One sociologist on one of the news/interview programs said he thought many of them were thinking not about being insulted or put-down, but about identifying with the white guy in the big house–or a kind of high-school-like wannabees . . . maybe if they voted for him, they will be accepted into the social group of the cheerleaders and football players. The other thing is the sheer power of bias–that the Latin cultures are still steeped in misogyny. And they literally gave the finger to women with (1) abortion and (2) Harris who unfortunately doesn’t have a dick.
The irony is Trump wants to deport them all. Stupid does as stupid is. And transactional hyper-capitalists don’t vote for the well-being for all anyway.
We should all watch the rest of the count, unless some evidence of new technology that could pull a switch comes out, however, I’m ready to return to my old argument: that “the people” suffer from the last 5+ decades of a demise in public education at the hands of those who know the political value of steering education over the long term away from providing a “liberal” education for a nation’s young people, as in “liberating.” CBK
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As of today, Harris has ~71 million votes and Trump is approaching 75 million.
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There is this from the NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/09/technology/democrat-voter-turnout-election-conspiracy.html
For those who can not get by the firewall, the Associated Press estimates that there will be 700,000 votes less in 2024 than in 2020, not many millions. Much of the delayed vote count is from the west coast, so it will likely decrease the gap between Harris and Trump.
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Yep. Hopefully this will put the “rigged election” theories to bed.
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