Margaret Sullivan is an experienced journalist who previously served as the Public Editor (ombudsman) of The New York Times. She now has a blog, where she writes about the media.
In this post, she explains the phenomenon called “sanewashing.” What is this term? It’s recently invented, presumably in reaction to current events. It refers to framing a news story to describe an incoherent rant as a thoughtful policy discussion.
She writes:
Like whitewashing a fence, sanewashing a speech covers a multitude of problems. The Urban Dictionary definition: Attempting to downplay a person or idea’s radicality to make it more palatable to the general public … a portmanteau of “sane” plus “whitewashing.”
Here, as an example, is a Politico news alert that summarizes a recent Trump speech: “Trump laid out a sweeping vision of lower taxes, higher tariffs and light-touch regulation in a speech to top Wall Streets execs today.” As writer Thor Benson quipped on Twitter: “I hope the press is this nice to me if I ever do a speech where no one can tell if I just had a stroke or not.”
Trump has become more incoherent as he has aged, but you wouldn’t know it from most of the press coverage, which treats his utterances as essentially logical policy statements — a “sweeping vision,” even.
After the intense media focus on Joe Biden’s age and mental acuity, you would think Trump’s apparent decline would be a preoccupation. He is 78, after all, and often incoherent. But with rare exceptions, that hasn’t happened.
I will give the Washington Post some credit here for the way it covered the speech mentioned above, specifically his answer to a question about how he would fund child care.
“Trump offers confusing plan to pay for U.S. child care with foreign tariffs,” the headline said. But many others, including the New York Times, sanewashed what he said, which went like this:
“Well, I would do that and we’re sitting down, you know, I was, somebody, we had Senator Marco Rubio and my daughter, Ivanka, who was so impactful on that issue … But I think when you talk about the kind of numbers that I’ve talking about because the childcare is childcare, couldn’t, you know, there’s something you have to have it, in this country you have to have it.”
And then he went on to say that his idea of tariffs on China will take care of the cost of pretty much everything, which might remind you of how he claims deporting immigrants will pay for affordable housing.
Sweeping vision, you say?
But why does the media sanewash Trump? It’s all a part of the false-equivalence I’ve been writing about here in which candidates are equalized as an ongoing gesture of performative fairness.
And it’s also, I believe, because of the restrained language of traditional objective journalism. That’s often a good thing; it’s part of being careful and cautious. But when it fails to present a truthful picture, that practice distorts reality.

Thanks for this, Diane! Just FYI I subscribed to Sullivan’s blog as soon as I read it. (This very day, the Washington Post has a debate preview that repeatedly refers to Trump’s “debate style.” The comments are full of scornful observations, including mine, about how they can call a firehose of lies and insults a “debate style.”)
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exactly
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Caroline, a firehouse of lies is a Gish gallop.
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So, here’s what I think is THE BIG QUESTION right now: will Harris soft-pedal stuff with Trump, as Biden did, in the debate? Or will she lay his sickness bare, make references to stuff like his writing “C” for colored on the top of rental applications from black people? to his charging foreign dignitaries who wanted stuff from him $10K a night for hotel rooms? to his pulling us out of the Open Skies and INF Treaties at the very time when Putin was fielding a new generation of hypersonic nuclear missiles? to the fact that he got 600 million from Daddy to get started but has repeatedly claimed that he is a self-made man? to the fact that a court found that he raped E. Jean Carrol? to the fact that some 25 or so women have made the same claim? to the fact that he claims to love the Bible but cannot cite a single verse from it? to the fact that he has made repeated sexual references to his own daughter? to the fact that he claimed not to have any business with Russia even though BOTH his sons said that the Trump Organization was awash in Russian cash and even though at the very time he was saying this, his daughter was continuing his negotiation to build a Trump Tower in Moscow? to the facts that he ran fake charities and fake universities to enrich himself?
She needs to take the freaking gloves off. No more nice nice. Democracy is at stake.
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to his repeated disparagement of American soldiers who were captured and imprisoned, tortured, wounded, or killed in the course of serving their country?
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I think she has the chutzpah to take it to him. We need the old Prosecutor Harris on that debate stage. We shall see who shows up–whether she listens to the idiot “sensible voices” in the circular firing squad of the DNC OR goes with her gut.
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I’ve been obsessively reading commentary by people who have followed Harris’ debate “style,” as they say, and the race in general. One thing they say is that Trump’s behavior and character are already known to people who are wired in enough to watch the debate, and Harris needs to spend the time at the mike making the case for herself in a positive way (rather than a defensive way), because that’s what the undecideds need to see and hear.
I hate to predict ANYthing and actually can’t bear to watch it myself. But I will note that my husband, a longtime San Francisco Chronicle reporter and columnist, covered a debate when Harris was running for senate, and was very impressed with her — and was not necessarily predisposed to be impressed with her. He didn’t normally cover politics at all (it was an unusual assignment for him), so that was his impression out of the blue.
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I really, really hate to disagree with you, Caroline, but No. I think she needs to nail him. Torpedo him. If she does that, it will be all over the press until the election. She wins.
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He will attack her in every way possible. What Caroline said was, she should not be defensive. I agree. That’s falling into his snares.
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Attack back.
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YES!!!!
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The conventional wisdom is always to take the high road. And it is wrong. She should not be defensive. But she should make this an indictment based on his entire career.
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That is a great idea: make like a prosecutor. Indict him for a life of lies.
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YES!!!!! She should state this explicitly. I’m a prosecutor. It’s time this lowlife got an avalanche of indictments.
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Caroline,
I’m glad to hear that because I read somewhere that debate was not one of her strengths. How will she stand up to a torrent of lies? When he debated Biden, Trump claimed credit for things Biden had done (eg, capping the price of insulin at $35). A Gish gallop. Biden was speechless.
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The best thing Kamala can do is to be herself.
I’m afraid that debate prep consists of being stuffed with facts and data. That can interfere with being yourself.
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xoxoxoxoxo
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She who must not be named was EXCORIATED when she “took the gloves off”. I watched the debate in 2016 and thought she did great and Trump was awful, but little did I know that the media experts would be informing everyone that Trump “did what he had to do” to show he was presidential material. Apparently “what Trump had to do” did not include honesty, being rational, human decency in comportment or answering questions coherently.”
The NYT is leading the media charge to already frame this debate the same way it did in 2016. Kamala has to PROVE to the many, many voters who have serious doubts about her being able to the job — so many voters just don’t trust Kamala and she needs to convince them to trust her because they have so many concerns about knowing nothing about her. And the story is already written that Kamala did nothing to allay the doubts. It doesn’t matter if she ignores Trump and talks policy or goes after Trump and talks policy.
Trump just has to be a little less himself and he’s good. He doesn’t have to prove anything because the “voter concern” just isn’t there, in the NYT’s Trump-friendly narrative (except in one story yesterday now buried as “old news” because as of today that voter concern about Trump no longer exists!)
So all these theories about what Kamala does or does not have to do are pointless. This is already being set up by the media as a debate she can’t win, just like in 2016 it turned out the Dem who can’t be named was soundly defeated at the debate. Because in the end, what Kamala FAILED to do will be the only story. Or perhaps she will make a misstep – the way every candidate in history has, except a far more minor one than the many Trump makes – that one misstep will give the media the rationale to ruin her.
I’ve seen this story before so many times.
The one thing I know is that whatever Kamala does tonight – whichever one of the suggestions that are mentioned here about what she should do that she does do – tomorrow the narrative will be that whatever she chose was the wrong choice. Because people still live in a world where they think if only the Democrat did something different, the so-called liberal media wouldn’t have to destroy them and present Trump as normal and a perfectly fine choice for president, and the Dem would win.
Kamala is human. For Dems, there is no room for the tiniest error. In fact, there is no room for anything that can possibly be misconstrued as meaning something that it clearly didn’t mean but the Republicans say it meant so that the press can say it meant what the Republicans said it meant so they can blame Kamala for saying it. Or, if the liberal media is bending overboard to be “fair and balanced”, they will say it’s Kamala’s fault for saying something too ambiguous that we in the media had to turn into a scandal because the Republicans told us it was. Sure she didn’t say what we keep implying she said because the Republicans keep telling us that’s what she meant, but that’s Kamala’s fault that we’ve been writing stories that it’s a huge problem. Kamala just shouldn’t have said that, even if it didn’t mean what we said it did in 100 stories.
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She didn’t take the gloves off.
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I remember thinking at the time that because she didn’t, she was going to lose.
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Mere peccadilloes. Moments of comic relief that Trump, the entertainer, ingeniously provides to sweeten his bile about making (white) America great again.
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So far laughing at Trump seems to stir him the most. Perhaps she she should attack by being dismissive. Perhaps she should reference the court’s inability to hold him accountable due to his crony judges, but do it in a dismissive way.
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Every time he lies, she needs to say, “There you go. Always lying.” or “Another lie, Donald? There are fact checkers in the world, you know.” or “You lie so blithely. It’s quite a talent you have.” And then turn to some horrific thing he said or did in the past. “But what we really want to hear about is you making comments about dating your daughter.” or “But do tell us more about how you used money from your children’s charity to buy a garish portrait of yourself to hang in your private club.”
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Like I’ve been saying, there’s a reason the Corporate Owned Media are happy to tolerate any degree and amount of insanity coming from Trump, no matter how clear and present the danger to Democracy, and that is because corporate interests are antithetical to democratic interests.
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Jon, my guess as to why Trump benefits from sane-washing. The reporters want to appear to be fair. They don’t want to write that “Trump lied repeatedly. He sounded completely unhinged.” So they pretend he is normal when he is not. The reporters are not thinking of corporate interests.
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The reporters who work for corporate media, yes, even CPB, are not paid to think, much less report what any sane person would think.
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I am probably in the minority but I don’t like it when a reporter covering a news story tells me that someone is “lying.” I prefer the “show, don’t tell” approach.
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But they don’t “show” the lies. They say he made “a controversial statement.”
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Not sure I know the particular article you’re referring to, but it can be hard to do this stuff on a tight deadline. Then everyone sits back and armchair quarterbacks about how bad the New York Times is.
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To show the lie, you have to do more than repeat what he said. You have to show that what he said is false. And you have to show that he knew it was false.
So, for example, if Trump says, “I have had nothing to do with Russia. I had no business in Russia,” then
you explain that both Trump sons have said that the Trump Organization was awash in Russian money and that Ivanka was at the very time Trump said this negotiating to build a Trump Tower in Moscow, all stuff Trump would have known.
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Yes, that’s how it’s done.
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As a newsroom veteran, I agree — they’re so bound to try to be fair that they mislead the public about Trump. And the normal journalistic practice would be to interpret the person’s comments, to shorten them to convey the message, but that’s terrible journalism when it comes to Trump — it’s the essence of sanewashing.
Re Harris’ debating style, there ARE plenty of examples of her being fast and devastating on her feet, so let’s hope. Also, the “stuffing with policy facts” debate prep technique supposedly is what backfired so badly with Biden, though I just think he was no longer up for it overall. Hopefully that was an eye-opener for the Harris campaign. So far the campaign has been quite effective, so fingers crossed for this.
It’s a ray of hope that NYT reporters (and I’ll bet Washington Post reporters too) are reading Margaret Sullivan’s comments and getting defensive, which is likely to prod them to do better.
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carolinesf, unfortunately the two NYT reporters covering Harris and Trump wrote a joint story today explaining the right wing prism of how they will view the debate. It BEGINS with the Republican narrative that somehow voters don’t know enough about the woman who has been the VP for the last 4 years. They knew enough about Trump in 2016. This is a right wing narrative – like voters extreme concern about Biden’s cognitive vegetable state but not Trump’s – which is entirely legitimized as UNBIASED TRUTH! by the media.
The “voter concern” – for the first time in modern history! – that they don’t know enough about the sitting VP is like “voters concern” with critical race theory being taught in their schools!
There was no massive “voter concern” about critical race theory in their schools until the right wing made it a talking point and the media gave it legitimacy. Same with “DEI”.
Meanwhile the concerns that many OTHER voters have that don’t support the right wing narrative are banned from being reported because talking about them is “biased”.
There are lots of things voters are concerned about with Trump, but he doesn’t have to prove anything to them because the media says those concerns are irrelevant.
If this debate was framed as voters are concerned about Trump’s lies, and the whole reporting was about whether or not Trump can do anything to convince all the voters with serious doubts about his honesty and unfitness that he is honest and cognitively fit, Trump would not have any chance to win the election. Trump cannot convince voters of that because he clearly is NOT honest nor cognitively fit! Because he can’t, the media erases that from their stories.
The fact that “voters are concerned and have serious doubts because they don’t know enough about Kamala and it’s her job to allay those fears” is the main narrative in almost every story.
Why isn’t the narrative “voters are concerned and have doubts about Trump because they know Trump lies and blathers incoherently and they can’t make sense of any of Trump’s policies, and it’s Trump’s job to allay those fears”?
One of those narratives is considered “very biased” and one of them is true. Unfortunately, it’s the same one – the one that these NYT reporters never report.
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Why do you think it’s inaccurate that a significant portion of voters don’t feel like they know enough about Harris? What are you basing that on?
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It is “inaccurate” that an even more significant portion of voters believe Trump is a liar and cognitively unfit?
Why aren’t there 200 stories about how Trump needs to alleviate voters concerns about that?
That’s what you don’t get about the media criticism. It isn’t some line you pull out. It’s about the framing of what is important and newsworthy — “Is Kamala good enough?” and what is NOT “newsworthy” – is Trump alleviating all the doubts and questions that voters have about him?
According to the NYT, if Trump is just a bit more coherent and makes the debate about the things that are good for him and bad for Kamala – the economy, etc. – that’s enough.
Because the narrative that the economy could do anything but hurt Kamala because “Bidenomics” was an utter and complete failure is never allowed to be spoken.
Voters have heard about how bad the economy is even more that they have heard how dangerous critical race theory is. Is it surprising that they came to believe that CRT in the schools is something dangerous and the economy is bad because despite all indicators being more positive than ever, “inflation” just being the lowest in any western country and going down is proof that Biden’s economy is a disaster. Because “polls show” people think it is.
Polls also show that people think Trump is a lying, corrupt, dementia-ridden person, but the media doesn’t believe that’s newsworthy.
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I don’t understand this: “It is “inaccurate” that an even more significant portion of voters believe Trump is a liar and cognitively unfit?”
I was asking why you seem to think it’s inaccurate to say that a significant portion of voters think they don’t know enough about Harris or her policy positions. Is there a basis for that opinion or is it just a hunch?
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I ask because it seems like you’re suggesting that the press is just making that up as a narrative that isn’t grounded in fact. But I have seen polling that does show a lot of voters saying that they feel they don’t know much about Harris or her views and policies.
We often assume our own ways of seeing things are representative of people in general. Remember that fewer than 40% of Americans have college degrees. The average voter does not pay attention to politics like you do. It makes perfect sense to me that there are a lot of voters whose only experience with Harris is from the 2019 campaign (when she was a very different kind of candidate) and as a Vice President who, like almost all vice presidents, was mainly a background figure. Should she worry about that and make it a priority to educate voters about her platform and priorities? That’s a strategy question for her.
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I was asking why you seem to think it’s NOT “newsworthy” to say that a significant portion of voters believe Trump is a liar and cognitively unfit to be president?
Is that because you believe it is “inaccurate” that many voters believe that Trump is a liar and cognitively unfit?
Is there a basis for that opinion or is it just a hunch that voters DON’T believe Trump is unfit for office so it shouldn’t be written about in the NYT?
Or do you just think that is “too biased” to report the doubts that voters have about Trump, but it IS very important to report the doubts voters have about Kamala?
By the way, Kamala has a lot more “policy proposals” than Trump does.
Do you believe it would be “too biased” for the media to report that when “polls show” that the public doesn’t know that.
I love the circular logic. The media won’t report on Kamala’s policies but will write hundreds of stories about how the voters believe Kamala has no policies.
Many decades ago, if journalists thought that the public was misinformed, their job was to inform them.
Now their job is to write stories about how the Democrat is to blame because voters don’t believe she has any policies and it’s the job of the Democrat to change voters’ minds while the news media writes endless stories about how polls show the public believes the Democrat has no policies.
This is true for EVERY right wing narrative, not just this new narrative “lack of policies”.
But it only applies to Democrats.
Polls show lots of doubts about Trump, but they cannot be the subject of any article (except finally – one!) because it is NOT Trump’s job to convince the voters of anything. It’s our fault in the media for being so anti-Trump and not alleviating voters’ doubts about Trump, but we promise to do better helping voters alleviate their doubts about Trump. We won’t be mentioning these doubts in any future story, since it’s not Trump’s job to alleviate any doubts about Trump — it’s the media’s job! Because it’s all the anti-Trump reporting that made voters have doubts!
Circular logic to justify the authoritarian America to come.
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Is there a reason you won’t answer the question I asked and are instead posing several questions to me?
I already said in another comment that it may not be incorrect to say that voters are very concerned with Trump’s cognitive function, and that the answer to that question is best answered by polling. If the polling shows voters are concerned about it, then that’s a factual basis to say they’re concerned about it.
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flerp!,
If “polling shows” that people don’t know about Kamala’s policies, the job of journalists is to REPORT ON THOSE POLICIES! Not to write 100 articles about how it’s up to Kamala to alleviate the doubts voters have because they don’t know her policies. Your circular logic is ridiculous.
You approve of the NYT’s setting up a no-win situation for Kamala. Of course she will talk about her policies – it’s ridiculous to think she won’t because she HAS talked about her policies on multiple occasions. But it won’t be ENOUGH, no matter what she says. Because the debate will just allow Trump to attack her with lies, blame her for inflation, Afghanistan, etc – everything Trump does NOT have a policy to address but gets a pass on – with the whole thing devolving into a he said she said.
Imagine how different the debate was if the media set up a no-win situation for Trump. That Trump needs to prove to voters he is not a liar who is cognitively and morally unfit to be president because POLLS SHOW that voters believe he is.
“Polls show” ONLY counts for you if it is an excuse to push a false narrative about Kamala — she has no policies!
But if “Polls show” a true narrative about Trump, you are good with that being ignored by the media. In fact, you likely thought my re-write was biased. Because my re-write treated Trump the way Kamala is treated. But you never see the bias when it is Kamala. You think it’s just “truth”.
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Arguably that’s their job. And reporters have done that. Maybe you think there should be more of that and less “horse race” reporting, and that is a defensible position. But it doesn’t follow that there should not be any “horse race” reporting. And if the real objection is to the horse-race style, then lead with that argument, rather than the spurious suggestion that reporters are somehow being inaccurate by writing that voters want to know more about Harris’s policies.
Of course your wish that the Times reporter led with voter’s concerns about Trump’s cognitive fitness rather than policy matters suggests that you may be as interested in something beyond mere explanations of each candidate’s policy positions.
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flerp!
I pointed out that the NYT isn’t writing hundreds of articles about Trump’s cognitive fitness, but they are writing frequently about the right wing talking point that Kamala has no policies.
You don’t have a problem with that, and nothing you wrote explains why you are satisfied that the NYT doesn’t believe it is newsworthy to write hundreds of articles about Trump’s unfitness the way they did about Biden’s. But you keep arguing that writing about Kamala having no policies is somehow worthy of much more coverage than Trump’s unfitness (but not Biden’s).
“your wish that the Times reporter led with voter’s concerns about Trump’s cognitive fitness rather than policy matters suggests that you may be as interested in something beyond mere explanations of each candidate’s policy positions.”
LOL – Trump’s “policy positions”??
If someone is a con man who says whatever he thinks will get him what he wants, what does that even mean?
You don’t think any voters exist who have doubts about Trump’s “policy positions”?
Trump explains his “policy positions” by making up reality! Did you know that your kid can come home from school after the school lets them have an operation to change their gender? Did you know that Trump has a great plan to curb inflation? Did you know that Trump would have made deals with Putin and Netanyahu and all would be peaceful, and the Afghanistan withdrawal would have been perfect?
The fact that you think that its important for Kamala to “talk policy” but not talk about the elephant in the room — that nothing Trump says tonight is likely to be true — speaks for itself.
But thanks for admitting that you would think my rewrite would be biased against Trump, but the NYT original is fair and balanced to Kamala.
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“But thanks for admitting that you would think my rewrite would be biased against Trump,”
I didn’t say that, in fact I specifically said that whether it’s biased depends on the factual underpinnings. You don’t read.
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Did you know that tariffs are going to bring tons of money to the government so they can do all the great things suburban women want, like child care and “saving” Social security?
Is that the debate you want? Should the media dutifully report on these “policies” that Trump discussed at the debate? By “report” I mean the NYT will write their typical stories that say “here is what Trump said about his policies and Kamala criticized Trump, but failed to alleviate voters’ concerns about what her own policies would be”,
Is that your ideal NYT story about the debate? Because I am pretty sure that story will be “true” in the same sense that all the other NYT stories you like are “true”. I don’t even need to watch the debate to know this can be construed in the eyes of NYT defenders as “accurate reporting”.
I wish you understood that what the media picks out as “newsworthy” IS biased. Framing IS biased.
Your implicit belief that the NYT is correct that Trump’s cognitive and moral unfitness are not important, not relevant to the campaign, not newsworthy — but Biden’s cognitive fitness was newsworthy – is a reflection of your own implicit bias. Now you can play the victim card “how dare anyone accuse me of bias”. But your weird knee jerk defense of the NYT is a reflection of that.
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What the hell are you talking about?
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Here are the first few paragraphs of how the NYT views this debate.
“The debate on Tuesday night stands to be the most important night in Vice President Kamala Harris’s political career. It will offer her her biggest audience yet as the country tries to learn more about what kind of president she would make.
Former President Donald J. Trump enters the debate hoping to turn the page on a tough summer. Ms. Harris has closed the polling gap with him since she replaced President Biden as the Democratic Party’s nominee. Tuesday may be one of Mr. Trump’s best shots to reverse that momentum before Americans begin early voting.
Ms. Harris’s aides and supporters want her to goad the former president into delivering incoherent rants. The Trump team wants him to turn the conversation back to three areas they consider winning terrain: the economy, immigration and global chaos.
With no other debates scheduled between Ms. Harris and Mr. Trump, the face-off figures to be one of the highest-stakes 90 minutes in American politics in generations.”
All Trump has to do is stop ranting! It’s okay if Trump LIES – as long as he sounds like he is coherent.
And this framing amplifies the same old Republican talking point that the economy, immigration and global chaos are a HUGE PROBLEM for Kamala and a winning issue for Republicans!
How can Kamala possibly not go down to defeat when Trump can blame Kamala and Biden (“coherently”) with complete lies for everything bad and any response by Kamala is parsed for 100% accuracy and all of those issues are “both sides” issues, although of course the media does need to say 1,000 times that Kamala is the one hurt by the “failing” economy because they don’t want the public to forget that very important issue that it hurts her a lot – which is shorthand for IT’S HER FAULT (even the liberal media says so).
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Can you rewrite the first four paragraphs as you would have written them if you were the reporter on that story?
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“The debate on Tuesday night stands to be the most important night in President President Trump’s political career. It will offer him his biggest audience yet as the country tries to learn more about whether he is cognitively fit for the presidency.
Vice President Kamala Harris enters the debate hoping to turn the page on a tough few weeks. Mr. Trump has closed the polling gap with her since she replaced President Biden as the Democratic Party’s nominee. Tuesday may be one of Ms. Harris’ best shots to reverse that momentum before Americans begin early voting.
Mr. Trump’s aides and supporters want to goad the Vice President into being vague about her policies. The Harris team wants her to turn the conversation back to the three areas they consider winning terrain: Trump’s incitement of an insurrection, Trump’s incoherent rants and lies in every speech, and Trump’s incoherent economy policy where the only thing he can talk about is giving tax cuts to the rich and telling skeptical voters that giving massive tax cuts to the rich (as Trump did in his first term) and having tariffs that will increase the price of the items middle class voters buy will be good for the economy.
With no other debates scheduled between Ms. Harris and Mr. Trump, the face-off figures to be one of the highest-stakes 90 minutes in American politics in generations.”
I bet you think my rewrite of the first few paragraphs of that news story is “too biased”. Because telling the truth about Trump is biased to you, but presenting right wing talking points as truth is fair and accurate reporting to you.
But I bet you think when the NYT’s reporters you admire for their fairness wrote THIS in their article as absolute fact, you saw it as “unbiased”, unlike my rewrite, right?
“The low point of Ms. Harris’s 2019 primary debate performances came when Representative Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii demanded she apologize for her record as a California prosecutor — a moment that Ms. Harris’s campaign had prepared her for but that she still had difficulty responding to effectively.”
For anyone who actually read the link, it was a very pro-Tulsi story, but did include the transcript, and while the NYT reporter may consider it a FACT that Kamala was unable to respond effectively, that is simply their once again presenting an anti-Democrat talking point as “absolute truth”. Kamala made a reasonable response to Tulsi Gabbard’s questionable attacks as if Kamala was one of the most corrupt and pro-death penalty attorney generals in California history.
Which glaringly contrasts with them always presenting TRUTH that is negative about Trump as if it is just a both sides opinion.
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Well done, you missed your calling!
I don’t know if it’s too biased–that depends on what the factual basis for what you wrote is. Do voters think Trump’s cognitive fitness is the biggest issue in the campaign? Does your third paragraph accurately reflect what Trump’s aides and Harris’s aides have been hoping and planning for? Those are factual questions that depend on (a) polling and (b) conversations with the Trump and Harris camps.
I don’t know if the Gabbord attack on Harris was the low point of her debate performances in 2019, but it’s definitely a candidate. For me, the low point was Harris’s bullsh!t attack on Biden over busing, a policy that Harris herself does not support. But for other viewers that may have been the high point. What do you think the low point of Harris’s debate performances in 2019 was?
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Your “low point” didn’t happen! The fact that you mischaracterized the exchange between Kamala and Biden that way reveals your own biases. It just didn’t happen. If anything, Kamala was far LESS offensive than Tulsi Gabbard was! Kamala began by stating that Biden was NOT a racist, but was critical of Biden for being too accommodating to Republicans that were.
The fact that you call THAT bs, but don’t have a problem with the perfect, supposedly anti-Trump reporting in the NYT that falsely presents as “truth” that Kamala could not deal with Tulsi’s attacks reveals your own biases.
The person MAKING a completely BS attack against Kamala doesn’t bother you.
Kamala making a legitimate criticism about Biden does.
And what proves how biased you are is that BIDEN HIMSELF knew that Kamala’s criticism was not the unwarranted attack that you, flerp!, profess that it was. Kamala and Biden were both criticized by many Democrats in those debates and they understood the difference between Trump/Tulsi Gabbard CHARACTER ASSASSINATIONS and criticism.
Biden never considered Tulsi for his cabinet because she is as disingenuous as Trump. Kamala is not. The fact you cannot see that is an expression of your own biases. So you give the NYT a pass for their biases, because to you they are only reporting “facts” and “truth”.
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I watched these debates. She did everything but out-and-out call him a racist.
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When someone starts out with a disclaimer like “I’m not saying you’re racist but” . . .
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YUP. Exactly.
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And no amount of ranting about it will change that FACT.
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Well obviously I agree with the criticism of the media sanewashing. But it is definitely NOT valid to say the media was better in past times. My career as a working journalist began in the early ‘80s and I worked with guys who’d been in the business since the ‘40s (all guys, of course). The standards were way different but definitely lower.
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Yeah. People tend to forget, don’t they? Yellow journalism is an old thing in these Disunited States.
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Tell it to AP Fact check:
“CLAIM: California Sen. Kamala Harris called former Vice President Joe Biden a racist when they were facing off as potential Democratic candidates for president in 2019.
AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. Harris criticized Biden on certain topics related to race during a debate in June 2019, but she prefaced those remarks with “I do not believe you are a racist.”
THE FACTS: In the moments after Biden announced he had selected Harris as his running mate in the 2020 presidential election, social media users seized on a heated exchange between the two politicians during a debate in Miami in June 2019.
“So @JoeBiden just picked @KamalaHarris for his VP… She literally called him a racist!
#wakeupamerica,” wrote one conservative personality in a tweet reposted nearly 3,000 times in an hour.
Similar claims were made by prominent political figures including Katrina Pierson, a senior adviser to the Trump campaign, in her response to Biden’s running mate pick.
These claims are false. During the debate, Harris condemned Biden for working with segregationists in the Senate and for opposing aspects of mandatory busing for school desegregation. However, she began her critique by telling Biden “I do not believe you are a racist.”
Kamala’s criticism was SPECIFIC. She SPECIFICALLY criticized Biden for working with some pretty terrible segregationists.
Furthermore, Kamala made an excellent point about busing in reply to Biden’s perfectly good defense (which, fyi, is what debates are supposed to be!)
Kamala pointed out that communities like Berkeley, California where she grew up CAN do their own busing and desegregation efforts. But that there are communities and states that WILL NOT. And what happens then?
Biden made a good point. Kamala ALSO made a good point. Stop pretending that making a good point means she called Biden “racist”. That’s a double standard — unless you are both asserting that Tulsi Gabbard called Kamala Harris “racist” because she talked about the race of the people she sent to prison.
But I do love the white folks who say they know better than Biden when someone did something very terrible to him, and theuy also know when someone diodn’g do anything terribvle to Kamala. And neither Tulsi nor the NYT have done anything worthy of strong criticism. But what Kamala did to Biden was supposedly “unforgivable”.
The irony is that it is clear from the fact that Biden was and remained extremely popular with Black voters that Black voters understood that Kamala did not all but scream that Biden was a racist. She was offering valid criticism about a subject that she and Biden disagreed on.
But glad you two white men are joining all those right wing conservative twitter posters who professed to feel such outrage that Biden chose Kamala after she supposedly all but called him a racist.
You all know best. You saw the “truth” that Black voters missed.
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I’m not calling you a racist, but you are two white men who remember Kamala talking about how she was so offended by Biden’s opposition to THE KEY race issue of its time–busing–and his playing footsie with out-and-out racists. Here entire demeanor during this was of being deeply wounded by what Biden had done and represented.
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By the way, I was one of a couple white men on this site who were calling for Biden to step down and Kamala to take his place. So don’t start on my being opposed somehow to our having a President Harris. Biden was what he was. He treated Anita Hill abominably. He worked for deregulation and consolidation of banks. He wrote the bill that made MDMA a Schedule 1 substance based on RETRACTED scientific studies. He vehemently opposed busing. He was part of the Obama administration that oversaw, via quantitative easing, the largest transfer of wealth from the middle to the upper class in history. He has long opposed Medicare for All. Status Quo Joe. He turned out to be a better president than I imagined he would be given this history.
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NYCPSP, you’re white. So you should break the habit of calling people white as a way to underline their credibility.
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“He vehemently opposed busing.”
Did you just call Biden a racist? I don’t think it’s allowable to ever mention that Biden vehemently opposed busing because then the conservative right wing commentators will trash you as having called Biden “racist”, even if you make it clear from the beginning that you know Biden isn’t a racist, but he did oppose an issue that is of concern to Black parents.
Sometimes it seems like there is a double standard – Kamala is Black so if she criticizes Biden she’s blatantly calling him a racist. And her saying Biden isn’t a racist means she is really saying Biden IS a racist, even if neither she nor Black voters took it that way. Some white people said Kamala called Biden a racist, or her words saying Biden isn’t a racist actually meant that he was.
Even Biden understood that wasn’t what she was saying. But hey, what does he know?
That was actually an interesting moment in the debate! Biden made some good points and so did Kamala. It made me think either of them would be perfectly fine candidates because they were thoughtful, not Tulsi Gabbards slinging insults and innuendo.
Your opinion may vary. But look at who the AP was fact-checking — right wing conservatives.
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NYCPSP, let me start by saying that I do not believe you are unintelligent. But these are some of the most insipid arguments I have seen in a long time . . .
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I repeat:
The AP did a fact check of the false narrative you both stated.
And funny, neither of you RETRACTED your statement. Instead you are now implying that I called the two of you racists because I pointed out that you had the same INCORRECT view of what happened during that debate as two white Trump sycophants.
Glad you two white men are joining all those right wing conservative twitter posters who professed to feel such outrage that Biden chose Kamala after she supposedly all but called him a racist.
I hope you will retract that, but if you don’t, that speaks for itself.
I hope you will stop falsely saying Kamala called Biden a racist. And stop mischaracterizing an excellent and interesting and yes, somewhat heated discussion between two people who still respected one another as if it was simply the Black woman calling the old white guy racist. A totally misleading characterization of an interesting and nuanced discussion where both made good points.
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NYCPSP, I do not believe that you are unable to follow an argument, but
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FLERP and NYCPSP,
Your bickering back and forth is boring.
Please stop.
I’m tempted to give each of you the other’s email and you can have these conversations/disputations offline.
I’m getting complaints. Just stop.
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Oh man please don’t do that
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Stop bickering and I’ll keep your emails private.
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Bob,
Above you said that you wanted Kamala to act like a prosecutor, which is basically what she did in that debate where she criticized Biden on his busing policies.
And just look how that becomes “she called Biden a racist” because she wanted to make it clear she was not saying Biden was racist BECAUSE – like everyone of the Dems except Tulsi Gabbard – the candidates running for the nomination in 2020 did NOT want to demonize one another and call them names. She was hard on Biden for his POLICIES and the segregationists he worked with without resorting to using words to demonize him. It isn’t surprising that the criticism that she called Biden “racist” in the AP fact check came from white Trump sycophants.
Kamala is going to be excoriated for “prosecuting” Trump and she is going to be excoriated for “not prosecuting” Trump enough. Or some made up “she called Trump racist” attack.
You really think she can not be named was “too soft” on Trump in the first debate??
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Also, Bob is a white man. You forgot to mention that.
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flerp!,
Your two insult/comments proves my point.
You followed up your “I don’t believe…” with nothing.
Do what Kamala did. Instead of implying that she just said “I don’t believe you are racist but” followed by something as inane and idiotic as you said.
Kamala did NOT do what you just did. But you can’t help denigrating her in order to denigrate me.
You challenged me to re-write the NYT story and I did it.
I challenge you to re-write your attack on me to match the intelligent, fact-back argument Kamala made for why she was criticizing Biden for doing something that she believed was wrong.
Here’s an example:
“Let me start by saying I don’t believe flerp! and Bob are racists. But as a way to criticize Kamala, they are expressing the same outrage that white Trump sycophants expressed about a moment in a 2019 debate between Biden and Kamala that AP Fact check confirms never happened. It did not happen.
The AP Fact check makes it clear that the false narrative “Kamala called Biden a racist” is a very misleading interpretation of an interesting and nuanced discussion about busing where both Biden and Kamala made good points. I do not understand why a white man who professed to be outraged that Kamala called Biden “racist” at a debate would NOT simply say to me “thanks, I forgot that it wasn’t what I remembered, she did not call Biden a racist. I do not understand why that white man would DOUBLE DOWN on what he said, despite Biden himself clearly knowing that the AP fact check was correct and the false narrative “Kamala called Biden a racist” is wrong.”
Does that re-write “prove” I implied you and Bob racists? Or does it “prove” I didn’t.
Please stop insulting and denigrating Kamala Harris by falsely implying that not only did she call Biden a racist, but she also followed that up by saying inane things that made no sense the way flerp! just did when he thought it would be amusing to call me out by doing to me what he keeps saying Kamala did to Biden.
Wrong, flerp!. Kamala doesn’t do what you do. She doesn’t call names and insult people because she has no evidence to support her criticism of them. That’s what you do.
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I don’t believe that is yet another insipid comment.
This is neither here nor there but did I ever tell you I’m half Mexican? The “white” kind but even so, I am probably less white than you are. Why do you need to call out other people for being white when you are clearly the whitest white woman in the world?
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Correction:
“But glad you two men who are NOT Black are joining all those right wing conservative twitter posters who professed to feel such outrage that Biden chose Kamala after she supposedly all but called him a racist. You all know best. You saw the “truth” that Black voters missed.”
(I replaced the erroneous “white” with “not Black” and made no other changes).
flerp!, I have no idea why YOU can never acknowledge an error and correct it.
If you believe your attack on Kamala is valid, you should be able to make it without citing something false. The AP fact check showed you were wrong, although some Trump acolytes made the same error that you did.
It’s getting weirder and weirder that even an AP Fact check won’t get you to acknowledge an error.
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I guess I need to actually spell this out like I would to a child. It does not matter that she prefaced her remarks with “I do not believe you are racist.” That is exactly the kind of thing that people do when they are about to say someone is racist. The gist of her attack on Biden was that Biden “worked with” racists (i.e. segregationists) and was proud of having done so, and that he had opposed busing, which was morally wrong, harmful to black people, and personally hurtful to her. This was an attack that tried to insinuate, not very subtly, that Biden had a bad record on race and that he himself was suspect for having worked with and praised segregationists. That’s certainly how Biden interpreted it, as his response was that she was mischaracterizing his record and that he had never “praised racists.” And the whole thing was extraordinarily cynical given that Harris herself does not support busing.
So you and the AP are technically correct that Harris did not “call Biden a racist” insofar as (1) she did not use the exact words “you are a racist” and (2) she prefaced her remarks with a throwaway disclaimer that she did not believe he is a racist. But the attack was designed to undermine Biden’s reputation on race and to insinuate that Biden was friends with racist segregationists and in fact himself advocated for racist policies. I don’t know why this is difficult for you to understand.
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I will go further and say that the Biden of that time was a racist. People who opposed busing back then did so because they didn’t want the government to force white kids and black kids into schools together. This was widespread and a sickness. He evolved. Bully for him.
And don’t give me the “he opposed busing but wasn’t a racist” nonsense. Do you have any idea how much actual pro-busing antiracists put up with? How they were attacked? That reminds me of the line one used to hear from these people back then, “I’m not a racist, but I don’t want one of them moving in next door and marrying my daughter.” Sorry, but that’s racist. Almost all racists (Donald, I’m looking at you) claim not to be. He says that he’s not a racist, and then he does and says racist stuff ALL THE TIME and has done so throughout his life.
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But Bob, the AP fact check says he specifically said “I’m not a racist.”
The time period in question was before my time, so I have no memories of it. I’ve seen the footage of Boston parents opposing busing, so I get what you’re talking about. I do think as a general matter it is possible to be against busing and not be racist, although this of course requires digging into the definition of racism. I know that I would have objected strenuously if, ~15 to 20 years ago, my own kids had been subject to a desegregation plan that forced them to attend a public school that was not nearby and was not of our choosing. Under a Kendi-like definition, that probably means I’m racist (or rather that I am complicit in racist policies), but I don’t care much for that definition.
So there’s some nuance here, but I don’t think the key part of what I wrote above is remotely debatable: namely, that Harris’s attack on Biden was designed to undermine Biden’s reputation on race and to insinuate that Biden was friends with racist segregationists and in fact himself advocated for racist policies.
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Opposing it today and opposing it then were different things. “Anti-busing “No busing” was THE rallying cry of the racists.
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I was stupid to walk into flerp!’s trap. I quoted the NYT article from TODAY to criticize the NYT reporting a false narrative they have often repeated to undermine Kamala – the NYT story reported that as FACT that Kamala Harris was unable to respond to a strong attack on her record that Tulsi Gabbard made in a past debate. That’s an opinion that many people do not share, not a fact.
flerp! does not like it when I criticize NYT reporting so he changed the subject to how Kamala said Biden was a racist in a 2019 debate. The AP fact check showed that Kamala did not say Biden was a racist. She made a point of saying he wasn’t because the Dems (except Tulsi Gabbard) were making efforts not to make character assassinations on one another.
I should have left it that flerp! was wrong, even when flerp! doubled down with help from Bob to tell me that words mean what they say they mean and not what the AP Fact check said. Instead I wasted my time pointing out the interesting discussion Biden and Kamala had about busing where they BOTH made good points.
I have no idea what motivated flerp! to express outrage at Kamala for a 2019 debate moment with Biden, unless it was to distract from the awful NYT reporting on Trump. Could it be that flerp! did not want to defend the paragraph in today’s NYT story where the reporter falsely characterizing the debate moment between Tulsi Gabbard and Kamala?
I know is that flerp! is constantly calling people who criticize the NYT’s failures in their Trump reporting “deranged”. flerp! believes the NYT reporting is very anti-Trump and should never be criticized.
Give yourself a pat on the back, flerp! You managed to both falsely attack Kamala Harris for calling Biden a racist and change the subject from discussing the SANE-WASHING the media does for Trump.
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My trap?
If you want to say something to me, then say it directly to me. Don’t do this thing where you address the audience about me, as if they care about the minutiae of your weird rabbit hole disputes with me.
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flerp! says: “as a general matter it is possible to be against busing and not be racist, although this of course requires digging into the definition of racism.”
This is true. Which is why Kamala said she did not believe Biden did what he did because he was racist.
Yours and Bob’s comments explain why Kamala wanted to preface her criticism of POLICIES that Biden supported that she disagreed without getting bogged down in the discussion you and Bob seem to want to have about whether it meant that Biden or flerp! is racist for not supporting them.
And that is exactly what they did! Discussed policies without having a discussion of what is and what is not racist.
Which makes this discussion particularly ridiculous.
It’s simply flerp!’s attempt to change the subject from the lousy media coverage that is a REAL PROBLEM and make the subject about how Kamala did something very bad to Biden that didn’t outrage Biden but did outrage flerp!
I think Kamala is going to have a hard time tonight no matter what she says. Because it will never be good enough for the media that flerp! always defends.
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Who are you addressing?
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I agree. The media has failed to call out the constant verbal garbage, lies and inconsistancies that has come forth from Donald Trump. As a trained as a journalist my wife showed me was how the factual news is supposed to be published. Newspapers should not be afraid to state the facts. Publishing exact quotes of his utterances would be ‘fair and balanced’. Who; Donald trump, What: his exact words, Where; at whatever venue, Why; to campaign for president or in response to a question, When; time and date of speech, and How; by operating his mouth, tounge and with his brain with or without assistance of teleprompt.
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Sanewashing for “performative fairness” distorts the truth. BTW, it appears Trump’s ironically named platform, Truth Social, is another tanked business venture. There is nothing fair and balanced about Trump. The failure of the media to present a true picture of Trump’s pathological personality and mental decline misleads the public that the press has a duty to inform.
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Yes. And did you know that under the Third Reich’s Propaganda Ministry, German newspapers often wrote about Hitler’s fondness for Knock, Knock jokes.
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I don’t know if the media’s sane-washing of Traitor Trump’s lunacy and obvious klepto-autocratic bent to be a micromanaging dictator as descripted on Project 2025, is an attempt to be fair.
If the piece is straight news, maybe. Although my vote would be NO. I think it is deliberate because of orders from the top down. 90% of the news media is owned by six profit-dominated cutthroat capitalist corporations.
Which candidate is better for the profits of those corporations?
And if any of the pieces referred to were Op-Eds, they were biased deliberately, starting from the selection of who wrote the biased opinion piece to its editing and the headline that’s almost always written by someone else, not the writer.
I’ve read both news and opinion pieces all the time with misleading headlines that bury the facts that are supposed to be in the lead paragraph deep down in the piece so the only readers who learn the whole story, read everything from start to finish.
To compensate, and save time, I start with the headline, then the lead paragraph skipping to the concluding paragraph where I start reading backwards paragraph by paragraphs toward the beginning to find the facts that are buried revealing the bias/lies in the headline.
I also often read other sources reporting the same news to learn facts that might have been missing in the first piece I read. I also read what the BBC has to say about the same news piece. Then Reuters and/or The Christian Science Monitor. All reputable sources known for accuracy in reporting.
Why do I turn to those three: because they are not owned by the six coroutines that control 90% of the media. Still, that doesn’t guarantee that even they will be free of sane washing.
Opinion pieces area always biased one way or the other. News reporting is supposed to be fair. Not opinions. And not using cherry-picked sources to quote who supports the bias intended for that news piece or leaving out essential facts.
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If Trump as president would be better for the New York Times, why did the Times editorial board print an absolutely scathing editorial this summer titled “Donald Trump Is Unfit for a Second Term”?
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There’s been a fair amount of hyperventilating in this thread, but people should remember that the norm in the history of presidential debates is that they don’t matter a whole lot. The exception are the very rare cases in which a candidate does so spectacularly bad that their very competence is called into question. Until the last debate between Trump and Biden, this was known as “pulling a Rick Perry.”
The odds are that we will not see anyone pull a Biden tonight, and things Wednesday morning will be more or less where they stand right now.
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It’s incredible that Trump would apparently have to be foaming at the mouth and rolling on the floor to be “spectacularly bad” enough that his very competence is called into question.
If the media wasn’t on bended knee to Trump, Trump’s “very competence” would be called into question every day. State of the Union. Faux press conferences. First debate. Moms for Liberty appearance.
Trump every single day shows himself far more incompetent than Rick Perry, and that’s saying a lot! Trump has already MORE than “pulled a Biden”, including at the debate.
It’s so strange that some people – especially the reporters who cover Trump for the most prominent news organizations – do not see what I think most of us see RIGHT IN THE OPEN!
The guy is threatening to lock up his opponents! He is telling people that kids are getting gender change surgeries with help from their schools and coming home to their unknowing parents. It’s not even possible to mention the onslaught of lies, corrupt use of power, INSANITY that Trump manifests every day!
Has there ever been a Trump appearance in the last year where he didn’t have not one moment but MANY moments where he was “spectacularly bad”?
If none of that was a “moment” where Trump’s very competence is called into question, then he can shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and be president.
That you refuse to see that as a failure of the media is incomprehensible to me.
Kamala just has to make one mistake tonight and it’s curtains. There seems to be nothing Trump can do that would ever be enough to warrant reporters questioning his “competency”.
Scary times.
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^^^sorry, “State of the Union” should be “RNC Convention Speech”
My error.
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There will be polls about who “won” the debate. They will reflect how people actually feel. Much as you are loath to admit it, there is a reality that is not mediated by mass media.
Regardless of how people feel about who won and who lost, the polling will be largely unaffected. The exception is the rare case where a candidate completely implodes. I’m telling you this based on our experience in every presidential election cycle.
Trump has never completely imploded in a debate like Biden did. That is a fact, even though you hate it so much.
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You just explained how it is impossible for Trump to ever “implode”.
It doesn’t matter what he does, the media will not report it as imploding.
One misstep from Kamala, and there will be 500 stories in the next week about this “disaster”.
You don’t think Trump “imploded” at that Milwaukee speech that Diane posted a link to, so of course it is impossible for Trump to ever do anything to cause the media to report that he “imploded”. And in that you are just like NYT reporters so your defense of their reporting isn’t surprising.
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Show me polling for any debate where the results suggest that Trump imploded like Biden did. You are unable to distinguish between your own feelings and objective reality.
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You are unable to distinguish between “polling” and “reality”.
Journalists who believe their reporting about what actually occurred at a debate depends on what the “polls say” people thought occurred are not journalists. You really have no idea what journalism is.
It is reporting reality. Not reporting on what polls show reality is.
I have news for you. “Polls show” that many people believe Dems stole the election from Trump. If Trump wins, even more people might believe it. In your totally off vision of journalism, when the people who believe that the Dems stole the election reaches a tipping point of 50%, it will be proper for journalists to write 500 stories about how “polls show” the majority of folks believe Dems stole the election from Trump. And then the round ups begin.
It would be better if the public understood that the NYT reporters share your nihilistic view that journalism is reporting what people believe, not what is.
The Orwellian future you envision where no one knows anything except what they are told “polls say”? The Orwellian future where there is no truth?
It’s exactly what is needed for authoritarianism to happen.
The winner is he who controls the media, the narrative, the polling!
Because whatever people believe should be reinforced instead of informing them of what is true.
Of course, like you, NYT reporters believe that it is absolutely NOT a fact that Trump is unfit to be president in a democracy. Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t. Let’s find out what’s true by looking at the polls.
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Folks,
Keep on going and you’ll miss the debate.
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IThe debate starts at 9pm.
You’re welcome!
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She is doing extremely well. Trump looking worse than I’ve ever seen at one of these.
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She is kicking ass. He is not even close because he is a moron and she isn’t.
He’s done.
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Trump looks “strong”. Trump did not IMPLODE. Polling may very well show that Trump looked fine to his supporters.
Ergo, everything you observed about Trump is irrelevant. Whatever “polls say” is what matters.
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Please go away.
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NYC PSP. Are you freaking kidding? She is killing it. He is flailing. So much so that this will be obvious to everyone.
He is toast.
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She doesn’t think he looks strong. She’s trying to re-ignite a stupid argument with me.
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Yeah. Her pastime.
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Bob,
I WANT you to be right. I hope you are right.
But Trump hasn’t “imploded”. He has done the same thing he ALWAYS does which is spew a bunch of lies and nonsense.
Why do you think this time is going to be any different?
We are going to have the NYT say “both Trump and Kamala made misstatements of fact”.
Trump is UNFIT. That will NOT be the narrative. It SHOULD be the narrative.
I am sure there is something Kamala said that wasn’t 100% accurate.
I am sure that Trump is devoid of any relationship with reality.
It is not the same thing.
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She destroyed him. ROFL. He is toast.
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When Trump talked about the “illegal immigrants” eating pets, I just lost it. I was laughing, but I truly will be SHOCKED if the media does not SANE-WASH Trump because he did not “implode”.
When the bar is set to a ridiculous standard, I don’t know how Kamala can win. Even though Trump spewed NONSENSE. He has NO PLANS. Except maybe cut taxes for the rich and tariffs.
ABC News even let him get away with not answering the question about his non-existent plan to replace Obamacare. But he’s not going to tell us until later.
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The same folks who can’t decide will reinforce their ignorant uncertainty by remaining unsured. It’s a sad way to give themselves importance.
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He looked and sounded like an idiot. And the Trump Show has grown really, really old. She was presidential. He was weak, a loser. And she flat-out nailed him again and again and again and again and again.
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I agree with you. But Trump has been sounding like an idiot FOR 4 YEARS!!!
Why is tonight any different?
If the media sane-washes Trump’s performance, will you stop belittling me?
What is different than all the other times Trump has been THE SAME and the media has pretended not to notice.
I predict a long NYT article about Trump’s POLICIES and whether or not they are better than Kamala’s.
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For much longer than four years. Much, much, much longer. Trump has sounded like an idiot all his life, but now he is an idiot with dementia
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Taylor Swift endorsed Kamala!
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wow! I didn’t see that!
I hope her boyfriend and his family endorse her, too. That could actually help in Ohio and PA.
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lol! Taylor Swift signed the post endorsing Kamala as “Childless Cat Lady!”
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Oh, that’s wonderful.
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Just read this comment elsewhere and it was too good not to share:
Trump just got Swift-boated!
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❤️❤️❤️❤️
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Hey folks, NYT reports that Trump attacked his opponent. Hey, it’s true.
The fact that Trump sounded INSANE while doing it? Is that really newsworthy?
They are helpfully “fact checking” and it turns out both Trump and Kamala said “misleading” things.
How the heck can a newspaper try to “fact-check” Trump’s performance?
That makes him normal. How does one “fact-check” an insane person spewing nonsense for 90 minutes? Maybe by informing listeners that nothing the man says can be trusted? Nope, way too biased.
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NYC: One of Trump’s rhetorical tactics is to talk about what WOULD have happened, or WILL happen, speaking to the future, or what his opponent WOULD DO, or is responsible for or would be responsible for which, when it gets here, and it doesn’t happen, he can conveniently forget about it.
And you cannot fact check the future. If you listen to his speech tonight, you can draw out a multitude of times he uses this tactic–playing into listener’s imaginations to fill in the blanks with their fears and desires while making empty promises.
Also, he apparently is responsible for everything good that the Biden administration did (because he was president before Biden); and then of course, Biden is responsible for everything bad that happened during the Biden time (that was, in fact, leftovers from the Trump time) and, as Harris said, the Biden administration had to clean it up. The best in show was that his “whiskers” comment was him just doing sarcasm–and still, they vote for him. CBK
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“You cannot fact check the future.”
So true. Trump always makes apocalyptic warnings about what will happen if anyone but him is President. We “won’t have a future,” we “won’t have a country,” etc. I wonder if he believes his own rhetoric.
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Good Morning, Diane (It’s just now 5:53 a.m. here in California):
Another of his rhetorical tricks is that he tells a lie, making a claim, and then says things like: “You know it . . . they know it . . . everyone knows it.”
That’s usually the run up to a projection of what he, himself, is doing, or wants to do, like the FBI and CIA were involved in fraud, or all those judges that threw out his court cases are all just playing politics against him. Besides being pure paranoia, HE himself is a fraud to the core and wouldn’t know clean politics if it bit him in the face; and the ironic thing is that, if everyone doesn’t know it by now, they are as idiotic as he is.
But the worst of it is when Trump says that, if he doesn’t win, then the OTHER SIDE MUST BE CHEATING, and the election was rigged and, of course, it will be rigged again. There is no room in his thinking that someone might be telling the truth, that things just might be going right, that truth doesn’t patterns itself from the warp and weave of his desires and fears, and that if there were some voting irregularities, it was far from enough to change the election results.
If Trump’s whole scenario of thought and expression doesn’t reek of delusional thinking, I don’t know what would. And the real head-banger is that he uses the freedom of speech and the other freedoms that we enjoy (and the rule of law) to tear down the source of those very freedoms.
There were so many things about the debate . . . but when he said “I don’t lie,” my eyes rolled out of my head and down the hall.
And didn’t you love it when Harris stopped the order of the debate to say that both she and Tim Walz were gun owners, so let’s get that straight–after he said TWICE that they wanted to take away everyone’s guns.
It was AGAIN, a firehose of lies, avoidances, false promises, flip flops, . . . but Harris took it apart and remained standing after crossing the goal line with the ball.
Then, after the debate, Trump was asked if there would be another debate whereupon he said she won’t debate me because she knows she lost. Can you imagine that the likes of J.D. Vance is next in line? Why are we still doing this? CBK
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In moderation. CBK
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