Thom Hartmann writes here that Democrats should make a deal with Republicans on immigration. Call their bluff. They have been using the issue for years while refusing to negotiate. The GOP has refused to make a deal until now so they can demagogue it. Make the deal. Pay the ransom.
He explains:
It may be time for Democrats to engage in some good-old-fashioned backroom dealmaking. If they do it right, they can strip Republicans of one of their most potent electoral issues while setting the stage for true reform of what has become a true American crisis.
Russian President Putin has ordered Donald Trump to sabotage US aid to Ukraine, and Trump has passed the word along to Republicans that anybody who doesn’t go along with the two of them will face a primary challenger.
Trump just doubled down on it this weekend in New Hampshire, praising Putin up one side and down the other while quoting Orbán and Hitler that immigration by nonwhite people “poisons the blood” of a nation.
In an attempt to appease Trump and Putin, Republicans in the Senate claim they’re putting together a “security” deal to send foreign and military aid to Ukraine and Israel while also “securing” our southern border from immigrants and asylum seekers.
Democrats first dismissed the proposed “deal” as bad-faith bargaining, pointing out that Republicans were demanding “poison pill” radical changes to our asylum and immigration policies and border security without being willing to engage in any sort of discussion about actual reform of our broken systems.
And broken they are. The last successful attempt at comprehensive immigration reform, The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCAor Simpson–Mazzoli), happened in 1986. Ever since then, Republicans have opposed or obstructed every good-faith effort by Democrats to come up with a bipartisan solution to the crisis on our southern border. And, yes, it is a crisis.
Republicans don’t want a solution because having a border crisis involving brown-skinned people works out really well for them, as it has for rightwing governments all across the world.
Viktor Orbán rose to power as Hungary’s “soft fascism” dictator by pointing to the brown-skinned Syrian refugees who were fleeing Putin’s bombing of that country and promising to “build a wall” along Hungary’s southern border to keep them out; it’s a promise he has kept.
Across the rest of Europe, rightwing parties are doing as Trump and Orbán did and pointing to brown-skinned immigrants as the largest and most immediate threat to the “blood and soil” of their nations. They include the neofascist Brothers of Italy (which now runs that country) and the Lega party, the Swiss People’s Party(Switzerland’s largest), the Finns Party in Finland, the National Rally (formerly the National Front) in the Netherlands, Alternative for Deutschland (AfD) in Germany, the United Kingdom Independence Party in the UK, and the Freedom Party in Austria.
In an apparent homage to Ron DeSantis’ shipping asylum-seekers to Martha’s Vineyard and New York, Russian President Putin has been sending brown-skinned immigrants to the Finnish border in such numbers that the Finns have been forced to close all the border crossings they share with Russia (an 832-mile-long stretch).
Russia is apparently now playing the role of human traffickers, helping these refugees from Kenya, Morocco, Pakistan, Somalia, Syria and Yemen find unmonitored places along the border where they can sneak across, correctly believing that a flood of refugees will politically upset Finland and help out the pro-Putin rightwing parties there.
On this side of the Atlantic, the issue of the browning of America has been panicking white supremacists since the Reagan administration, when the change to our immigration laws in 1965 with the Hart-Cellar Act — which ended racial immigration quotas going back to 1921 that were designed to keep America white — was becoming obvious.
In 1960, 84 percent of all immigrants to the US were white, as the 1921 law required. By 2017, only 13.2 percent of immigrants were white.
Should it then surprise anybody that the white supremacists who make up the base of the GOP flipped out about immigration? Or that Republican politicians would know this and hammer it at every opportunity, while refusing to participate in any real solutions because the “border crisis” works to their political advantage?
This is, after all, foundational to the “great replacement theory” that Trump, Alex Jones, David Duke, and multiple Republican politicians have been endorsing ever since “very fine people” were chanting “Jews will not replace us [with Black or Hispanic people]” in Charlottesville.
Republican rhetoric on the issue has become so predictable that Richard Haas, normally a reasonable voice on foreign policy issues, had to be corrected on Fareed Zakaria’s GPS show yesterday when he said that Democrats favor an “open border policy.”
In fact, it’s Libertarians who believe all countries should have open borders, or that more immigrants coming to America is a good thing because it increases the supply of low-wage labor that businesses so love. Rand Paul, for example, has sponsored legislation that would increase immigration to the US.
But that hasn’t stopped Republicans from inviting as many people as possible to come to America, by proclaiming that our border is “wide open” because, they say, of Democratic Party policies.
While no elected Democrat I can find has ever called for “open borders,” Republicans keep saying that Democrats are for open borders and that they’ve gotten their way and the southern border is now wide open.
Thus, while it’s true that two factors have driven a lot of migration over the past few decades (climate change wiping out farmland, and political dysfunction and gangs caused by the Reagan administration illegally devastating the governments of El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala), the main driver of would-be immigrants and refugees today is the Republican Party itself.
Lacking any actual, substantive economic issues to run on, the GOP has decided to fall back on a familiar ploy: scare white people that brown people are coming for them and/or their jobs. Back in the 1950s and 1960s, I remember well how the GOP’s pitch to white people was that Black people wanted “our” jobs; now it’s brown people from south of the border.
Trump did this in the most crude, vulgar, and racist way possible from his first entrance into the Republican primary through the end of his presidency and to this day. It frightened enough white voters that it got him into office once, and the GOP is hoping they can repeat that trick in 2024.
In doing so, they’re playing with fire. Their lies about American policies are causing refugees to put their lives and their families in danger.
The truth is that Joe Biden never “opened” our southern border. “Open borders” have never been his policy or the Democratic Party’s policy or, indeed, the policy of any elected Democrat or Democratic strategist in post-1921 American history.
Everybody understands and agrees that for a country to function it must regulate immigration, and its borders must have a reasonable level of integrity. Everybody. But you’d never know that from watching Fox “News” or listening to rightwing podcasts or hate radio whenever there is a Democrat in the White House.
Republicans are playing a very dangerous game here. By loudly proclaiming their lie that Biden has “opened” the southern border and is “welcoming” immigrants and refugees “with open arms,” they are creating the very problem they’re pointing to.
Just google “open border” and “congressman,” “congresswoman,” or “senator” and you’ll get a list of Republican politicians too long to print. These are the quotes that coyotes — human smugglers — print out and distribute to desperate people in Central and South America as advertisements to get people to trade their lives’ savings for transportation to the Rio Grande.
At the top of that list, of course, you’ll find the most contemptible Republican demagogues:
— Ted Cruz wants everybody south of our border to know that the “Biden Open Border Policy [is] A Very Craven Political Decision”;
— Rick Scott wants everybody to know that “Americans Don’t Want [Biden’s] Open Borders”;
— Marco Rubio says there’s “Nothing Compassionate About Biden’s Open Border Policies”;
— Rand Paul is so extreme he tells us Senator Rubio “is the one for an open border”;
— Josh Hawley says “Biden’s Open Border Policy Has Created a Moral Crisis”;
— Tom Cotton “Insists the Border is Wide Open”;
— Ron Johnson wants the world to know that “Our National Security is at Risk Because Democrats have Turned Border Security into a Partisan Issue”;
— Marjorie Taylor Greene “BLASTS Open Border Hypocrites”;
— Mo Brooks opposes “Socialist Democrats’ Open Border Policies for Helping Kill Americans”;
— Lauren Boebert says the “Root Cause” of the open border crisis “is in the White House”;
— Matt Gaetz “revealed a complex and deceitful agenda by Joe Biden’s Democrat administration to evade our Southern Border law enforcement”;
— Gym Jordan says “Biden’s Deliberate Support of Illegal Immigration Could Lead to Impeachment”;
— Kevin McCarthy says the Biden Administration has “Utterly Failed” to secure the “open border”;
— Elise Stefanik proclaims “Biden’s Open Border Policies have been a Complete Disaster.”
— Tom Cole’s website features “Biden’s Open Border America”;
— Bob Goode brags about introducing legislation named the “Close Biden’s Open Border Act”;
— John Rose “Calls Out Biden’s Open Border Policies”;
— Paul Gosar claims Biden is “Destroying America with His Open Border Policies”;
— Roger Williams complains about the “Democrats’ Open Border Problem”;
— Tom Cole wants the world to know that Biden’s “open border policies have given the green light to migrants and bad actors from around the world…”;
— Gus Bilirakis “Denounces Dangerous Open Border Policies on the House Floor”;
The list goes on and on, and these messages have spread all across Central and South America, just as Republicans hoped they would, driven by human smugglers following the profit motive.
Based on an intentional GOP lie.
And the small percentage of migrants who actually get through our border and survive the trek across deadly deserts provide more cheap labor for Republicans’ big donors’ factories and construction sites, along with more brown-skinned people they can demonize as “replacing” white Americans on Fox “News.” Win-win for the GOP.
The hypocrisy is obvious: if Republicans were really worried that immigrants were diluting the labor pool and driving down wages (their main non-racist argument), they’d be pushing for an E-Verify kind of mandatory citizenship-confirmation system like most other countries have.
Instead, they refuse to even consider such legislation that would help us regulate our labor markets and discourage purely economically-motivated immigrants in favor of true refugees.
In the 1920s, the US began regulating immigration and similarly put into place laws regulating who could hire people to legally work in this country and who couldn’t.
I lived and worked in Germany for a year, and it took me months to get a work-permit from that government to do so. I worked in Australia, too, and the process of getting that work-permit took a couple of months.
In both cases, it was my employers who were most worried about my successfully getting the work permits and did most of the work to make it happen. There’s an important reason for that.
The way that most countries prevent undocumented immigrants from disrupting their economies and causing cheap labor competition with their citizens is by putting employers in jail when they hire people who don’t have the right to work in that country.
We used to do this in the United States.
Because there was so much demand for low-wage immigrant labor in the food belt of California during harvest season, President Dwight Eisenhower experimented with a program in the 1950s that granted season-long passes to workers from Mexico.
Millions took him up on it, but his Bracero program failed because employers controlled the permits, and far too many used that control to threaten people who objected to having their wages stolen or refused to tolerate physical or sexual abuse.
A similar dynamic is at work today.
Employers and even neighbors extract free labor or other favors of all sorts from undocumented immigrants in the United States, using the threat of deportation and the violence of ICE as a cudgel. Undocumented immigrants working here end up afraid to call the police when they’re the victims of, or witnesses to crimes.
Everybody loses except the GOP and the employers they’re in bed with, who get a cheap, pliable, easily-threatened source of labor that is afraid to talk back or report abuses.
The tragedy is in the lives of the desperate people who listened to these Republican lies and got robbed, raped, or even killed trying to make it here.
They pack all their belongings into a single backpack, bid tearful goodbyes to friends and family, and begin a grueling journey facing dangers of death, kidnapping, rape, and violence. They are fathers, mothers, and children.
Quite literally taking their lives in their hands because they believed cynical, unfeeling, uncaring, sociopathic Republican politicians who are lying for political gain.
That said (and speaking as the grandson of immigrants), there is a limit to how much immigration a nation, region, state, or city can withstand before things start to break down.
Southern Republican governors are shipping their newly-arrived immigrants into New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, and other Blue cities to force Democrats to confront the proportions of the problem we have today because of all these GOP proclamations that the border is “wide open.”
And it’s working. New York’s Mayor Adams has said that the influx of immigrants is “destroying” his city; dozens of other Blue cities across America are straining under the load, particularly as winter is here and our broken immigration system denies these new asylum seekers work permits.
So perhaps it’s time for Democrats to turn the tables on the GOP and take this topic off the table until after November’s election. Go along with their demands to “close” the border, stop admitting refugees and immigrants, and fund a deportation system for those people who’ve not yet been processed.
Point out how years of Republicans and rightwing media “inviting” people here with “open border rhetoric” has crashed the system. Declare a state of emergency and allocate funds to help Mexico and “sending” nations deal with people who’ve been turned away from our border. And demand comprehensive immigration reform.
The simple reality is that no nation can absorb immigrants beyond a certain threshold without producing a backlash.
Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians aren’t the only ones this argument has been used against: “racial” discrimination based on these superior/inferior theories was widespread in America against Irish, Italians, and Poles from the mid-19th through the early 20th century.
“Racially-motivated” anti-Irish violence was particularly vicious in Boston and New York after the Irish Potato Famine of the 1840s drove immigration to America; in 2002 Leonardo DiCaprio and Martin Scorsese made a movie about it, Gangs of New York, set in 1865.
At the moment, this issue is relatively quiet; Republicans haven’t yet gone into campaign mode. But, just as predictably as “caravans!!!” from the South appear on Fox “News” a month or two before every federal election when there’s a Democrat in the White House, the GOP will start screaming about all those brown-skinned people coming here next summer and it’ll be a deafening roar by the November election.
If the GOP’s price for aid for Ukraine is to stop the flow of immigrants into this country for year or so, I say pay the ransom.
It’ll politically neuter Republicans, get aid to our democratic allies who are under attack (although the Israel aid should be conditional on ending the bombing and embracing a two-state solution), and give a much-needed break to the Blue cities Abbott and DeSantis are trying to break.
Hold your nose and go for it, Democrats, if you can get even an objectionable deal; one that’s not completely insane. In the final analysis it’ll be best for America and for future refugees and immigrants who deserve a system that actually works and can deal with their asylum or citizenship applications in a reasonable and timely manner.
I realize that some of my progressive colleagues, both in broadcasting and in print, will immediately object. However, if you present to the American people the case that this is necessary to help save democracy around the world and ultimately here in America, and that it is a small but temporary compromise, it’s a risk worth taking.
Americans really do care about freedom and the future of this nation, of the democracy and constitution for which so many Americans have given their lives, in battle and in a thousand other ways.
Make the deal.

I agree with Thom Hartmann. If grabbing and holding the Republican election issue on immigration helps keep Trump out of the White House, then I think the Democrats need to “hold their noses” and do just that. We can fix it, hopefully, after Trump is defeated. Rick Johnson Castle Rock, Colorado
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GOP campaign mode
A professor at a Catholic university in Ohio added to the discussion about the 1920’s. The media’s title of the recent article reviewing the professor’s summary of Am. history is, “Right wingers secret plan to terrorize American Catholics.”
The headline fails to mention the prejudice was almost 100 years ago and given the number of governors and nationally elected politicians, it, in no way, portrays the situation today. In a huge case of irony, Indiana is described as having been owned by the Ku Klux Klan. Pray tell, what right wing group, hint-religious, does the professor think governs Ohio today?
The right wing Catholic Church is great at creating narratives, getting media play for the narratives and, they are good at ruses. As an internet commenter coined the outcome, “persecution porn”- it keeps the tribalists loyal and delivers votes for the ruling class of the wealthy.
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Thank you for this excellent post. Democrats should call the GOP’s bluff. The current mess is being hung around Biden’s neck, and it is hurting Biden’s campaign. Hartmann’s suggestion would be a clever strategic move. While it wouldn’t address our long-term immigration policy, it would provide relief for Biden during the election.
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“Thank you for this excellent post.”
When I read “Russian President Putin has ordered Donald Trump to sabotage US aid to Ukraine” I almost quit reading.
If that is excellent I have some great white sand beach ocean front property for sale over at Lake of the Ozarks in Central Missouri.
(Hint for all you coastal folks who don’t know, that location is well over 500 miles away from any ocean/gulf.)
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Donald Trump has been a Russian asset since at least the late 1980s, and he has long been Putin’s dog. Sit up, Donnie. Roll over. Good boy.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/19/trump-first-moscow-trip-215842/
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Why do so many in the current GOP support Putin’s criminal, illegal, murderous war in Ukraine? Because they are following their Glorious Leader, Moscow’s Asset Governing America, Comrade Donnie Boy.
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Moscow’s Asset Governing America (MAGA)
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Duane,
Trump opposes aid for Ukraine because Zelensky refused to dig up dirt on Biden. Republicans who cower in fear of Trump oppose that aid to placate him.
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Nailed it, Diane.
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Mr. Hartmann is far too partisan on this issue, and he is either deliberately misleading his readers or he is poorly informed about some aspects of the immigration issue. It’s true that the employer/Chamber of Commerce wing of the GOP favors massive immigration in order to suppress wages for American citizens. It’s also true that the high tech wing of the Democratic party has abused the H1-B laws to hire foreign IT talent who will work for much lower pay than American citizens will. Several years ago the Disney Corp. – much loved by Diane Ravitch – laid off 250 IT employees; as a condition of receiving their severance, they had to train the much lower paid non-citizen replacements to do their jobs.
Opposition to e-verify has long been bipartisan. The cheap labor wing of the GOP has opposed it, and advocates for undocumented immigrants (including almost all elected Democrats) have also opposed it – they want no obstacles to nearly unlimited immigration of what they regard as future Democratic voters. The demographic most in favor of e-verify and immigration restrictions is the working class of ALL races, including Hispanics. It’s the strongest issue for Donald Trump (again) in 2024, although he could easily fumble his advantage with his racist talk of immigration “poisoning the blood” of American society.
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Do you, by any chance, understand that Hispanics aren’t a “race”?
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Do you, by any chance, understand that readers know what I refer to when I use the term Hispanics? You are being pedantic in order to prove your (non-existent) moral superiority.
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Actually, I was aiming for intellectual superiority. But in your case? Yeah, it wasn’t real sporting. My apologies.
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There is no deal, immigration is at the off the list in November, 24, and the Republicans will continue to move the goal posts.As the Dems “ compromise they erode Biden voters on progressive side, a conundrum for the Dems, can Biden and the Dems cobble together the traditional Dem base? Or, will elements of the base stay home? Will the new pro Choice voters decide the election,. The first rule in politics is win the election by any means., and, it’s the only rule
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Agreed
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Too much nuance here.. This isn’t 1840.How about just enforcing the laws already on the books?
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What laws aren’t being enforced?
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There is so much misinformation and disinformation out there on this issue. The fact is that recent immigrants get haircuts and buy groceries and gasoline just like everyone else, and so they create demand, which creates jobs. They also form companies (small ones, typically) at ten times the rate of citizens, and these often employ unskilled U.S. citizens. They also pay taxes using special IDs instead of social security numbers and qualify for almost no social services. And, they have the lowest crime rates of any subgroup of the population (see the stats on this from the Department of Justice). So, the net effect of immigration to our economy is about a 1 percent INCREASE in employment and billions of dollars into our treasury while costing very little. They also do onerous jobs that most Americans don’t want–in the meatpacking and landscaping and roofing businesses, for example. You want to stand in the Florida sun in 100-degree weather and hammer in roofing shingles or pick beets? I didn’t think so.
The Repugnican Party is full of opportunists who use racism and falsification of economic and other realities to whip up ignorant into a voting frenzy. Same as, say, Joseph Goebbels did. Create a scapegoat. Create an object of your two-minutes hates.
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All of the economic arguments currently made by Republicans to oppose the Biden immigration policies used to be made by prominent Democrats up until around 2008. Prominent Democrats: Barbara Jordan, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, Chuck Schumer, and many more. They all said that allowing too many low-skilled people into the country hurts working class Americans of all races. In addition, mass immigration like we’re seeing now puts tremendous strain on public services, especially public assistance programs like housing, medical care, and public schools. Your belief that these low-income immigrants collectively pay enough in taxes to cover the costs of the public services they receive is absurd, no matter how many times you cite the Brookings Institution in defense of your belief.
Paul Krugman once wrote that there really aren’t jobs that Americans won’t do; he said there are jobs where the pay is so meager that only desperate people will take them. Raise the pay and Americans will do them. Union-scale roofing jobs in most metro areas used to pay what is now at least $25/hour, with good benefits; almost all that work is now done by illegal labor at less than half that rate – a job Americans supposedly won’t do. Same with many other industries: the #1 reason why the appalling Donald Trump is likely to be elected in 2024. Most of the working class – my family background – no longer views Democratic politicians as their allies.
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Krugman is full of shit on this issue.
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Very few people are going to stand on rooftops in Florida in the summertime. Whatever the pay.
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Neoliberals took over the Democratic Party. Thus the defections. Well, add a healthy dose of appeal to the racism of the uneducated.
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Bob Shepherd
Krugman is basically right it is the same position taken by many progressives. There are some Jobs in Agriculture that White Americans were loath to take going back to Jim Crow. Roofing was not one of them. Neither was meat packing. When meat packing was a high paid Union Job one could easily ignore the conditions . As you went on trips to Disney and paid your children’s college tuition.
In the 1950s Union construction workers represented 88% of the construction work force. After concerted attacks on Union Construction starting in the 1970. Orchestrated by the “Business Roundtable,To Control Construction Spending”.(the second half of the name since dropped from the once most powerful business lobby in the Nation). Today Union members only represent 12.5% of the construction workforce.
In NYC in the middle of a massive high rise residential building boom 20% of Union Electricians (1800+-) are sitting on the bench for up to a year, that is with a workshare plan . Concessionary contracts and Project Labor Agreements have significantly lowered the pay scales across the Industry. . In the early 2000s greedy NYC developers and their bankers had decided that they could follow the trends that had spread across the Nation in the 70s and 80s.
Sadly:
“As of 2021, immigrants comprised a larger share of the construction workforce than of any other sector in New York City (Office of the New York State Comptroller 2021). Between 2015 and 2019, immigrants comprised just 37 percent of the total New York City population, but 44 percent of the city’s labor force and 63 percent of all its construction workers (Ruggles et al. 2021). The Center for Migration Studies of New York (CMS) estimates that in this time period, 41 percent of the immigrant construction workforce was undocumented.”
(From an organization that advocates for Immigrants.
https://cmsny.org/publications/climbing-the-ladder-052322/ )
The truth is that Henry Ford started a trend that deskilled the workforce. The production line of the Model T. eliminated the roll of skilled carriage builders replacing them with unskilled workers each doing a limited task.
Union Electricians spend 5 years training on Jobs and in classrooms they are theoretically trained to do many aspects of the industry and were paid for those skills. The truth is that much of physical work they do is unskilled and repetitive so it can be done with low paid unskilled workers . Supervised by a few highly skilled workers . Try organizing a non union shop when the skilled workers see 1800 men sitting on the bench for a year as the future of joining a Union .
Every year Union Construction in NYC loses more market share. As now even Commercial Builds are going up non Union. In part fueled with an exploitable immigrant work force. As effective wages drop across the industry and more and more union members work on secondary rates .
Soon Construction in NYC that paid most as much or more than highly paid Long Island school teachers will be a Job Americans wont do.
The answer is not to beat on immigrants but to change labor law. But Krugman and Sanders were right there are few Jobs Americans wont do for the right pay.
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Well, I defer on this to your far greater knowledge of labor history, Joel. But do you really think that if decent wages were paid for picking beets in the Florida sun, white American citizens in Florida would line up to do that? These people work 10-hour days doing hard physical labor in temperatures and with humidity both in the high 90s.
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See this, Joel:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-immigrant-workforce-supports-millions-of-u-s-jobs/
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And this:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-immigration-means-for-u-s-employment-and-wages/
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from Brookings
Although many are concerned that immigrants compete against Americans for jobs, the most recent economic evidence suggests that, on average, immigrant workers increase the opportunities and incomes of Americans. Based on a survey of the academic literature, economists do not tend to find that immigrants cause any sizeable decrease in wages and employment of U.S.-born citizens (Card 2005), and instead may raise wages and lower prices in the aggregate (Ottaviano and Peri 2008; Ottaviano and Peri 2010; Cortes 2008). One reason for this effect is that immigrants and U.S.-born workers generally do not compete for the same jobs; instead, many immigrants complement the work of U.S. employees and increase their productivity. For example, low-skilled immigrant laborers allow U.S.-born farmers, contractors, and craftsmen to expand agricultural production or to build more homes—thereby expanding employment possibilities and incomes for U.S. workers. Another way in which immigrants help U.S. workers is that businesses adjust to new immigrants by opening stores, restaurants, or production facilities to take advantage of the added supply of workers; more workers translate into more business.
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Bob Shepherd
Bob I stipulated White Americans were not going to pick fruit or cotton since Jim Crow. When reconstruction ended. Agriculture previously done by slaves.
What we forget is that in aggregate policies may be good for the Public. However people are not aggregates. The same can be said about trade policy. Great for America not to great for Mid West manufacturing workers. As American Jobs were shipped over seas whole Towns and Small cities like Flint were devastated . Me I was able to buy a 48″ and larger TV, for the same price I paid for a 15″ in 1975. And as foriegn imports held or lowered prices on goods. Manufacturing used to have a large wage premium, it no longer does. Try telling those American workers in their 40s and 50s who had worked in the same factory for 20 -30 years . That expanding the economy creates opportunity for them. Opportunity to sell their under water house and move to Texas as they acquire new skills. Life expectancy has declined! And the greatest benefit from all these neo liberal policies from trade to immigration has gone to the .01 percent as 10% of National income has shifted to the Owner /Investor class from the working class. There is hardly any Social Security crisis with out that 10% shift. in National Income.
I am not anti Immigrant, there is no reason (other than Republicans and Republicrats that wages for all workers can not be protected at the same time. We have no problem rescuing Banks and oil companies.
And is Floraduh any hotter than Nevada.
https://unionroofers.com/where-we-are/#/?filter=State-%3ANV
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Main reason for voting for Democrats is supposedly that they’re not Republican. But to get people to vote for Democrats, they should act like Republicans. Gotcha.
Who do you really think this is convincing? Do you think Republicans will vote Democratic because of this? Republicans think Democrats favor open borders and will never be convinced otherwise. Democrats are voting Democratic anyway. This will further turn off the left, the few that still had delusions of voting Democratic anyway.
Some day maybe Democrats will stop chasing Republican votes and maybe even try to work with the left. The fact that they don’t tells you who the Democrats really are. Which is fine, you do you, but just don’t blame the left when you lose
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NYC isn’t struggling because of GOP “proclamations” about immigration. It’s struggling because there has been a steady stream of migrants who, because of NYC’s disasteous “right to shelter” law, must be housed at the city’s expense. Out of those migrants have not been shipped by red state governors, but rather have come to NYC on their own. And it’s highly likely that most of the migrants have no valid asylum claims, but rather are simply seeking better economic fortune. The net result has been austerity budgeting, with cuts across every department, and now with talk of raising taxes to cover the cost of housing migrants. The White House and Congress have done near nothing to help. It’s an absolute disaster and not all of it can be laid at the feet of Republicans.
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“Most of,” not “out of”
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Yeah, but I don’t think so. Take Denver, a very small city compared to where I used to live (Chicago).
Immigrants are arriving via buses regularly. Mostly from Texas. Virtually none of them came to the U.S. to live in Denver.
How do they get here? Texas sends them. Why? Because we’re a blue city in a blue state. I don’t see them sending them to Little Rock or Omaha. It’s a political tactic, one with no concern for the immigrants themselves.
For guys like DeSantis and Abbott, this is great fun.
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Denver deserves its fate. Virtue-signaling yourself as a sanctuary city finally has a cost.
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The United States is an immigrant nation. Donald Trump’s wife is a freaking immigrant. Immigrants built this country. They provide a vital spark. Most of the people who pontificate on this issue don’t actually know any immigrants. These are incredibly hard-working people, often pious. Good family people, mostly. They are willing to take these really onerous jobs and work their asses off so they can send a few dollars back to their elderly parents and other family members in the home country. Theirs is the true nobility. Fat cat Americans sitting on their overstuffed asses pontificating about them are not worth a drop of sweat from their brows. Creepy privileged bigoted sheltered racist neo-Nazi morons, often ones who fancy themselves Christians. Well, it’s pretty clear which side Yeshua of Nazareth would be on. He would be standing in the water with the immigrants, wading toward the razor wire that Governor A-butt put there to flay people indiscriminately, including small children. What an evil ___k.
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This has been documented by reporting. Texas and Florida have sent a fairly small portion of the total number of migrants who’ve come to NYC. Maybe Denver is different but don’t just go by your gut.
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If I was going by my gut, I’d have said so. This is common knowledge in Denver.
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I’ll take your word for it arguendo but Denver is inconsequential for overall US numbers.
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Looks like Denver has been shipping migrants to NYC and Chicago. Like Texas, Denver officials say it’s all voluntary. Thanks, Denver!
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It would be nice if you mentioned that Denver sends immigrants to other cities because the immigrants ASKED them to.
And Denver is paying for those tickets.
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Like I said, that’s what Texas says, too!
I’ve seen no corroboration for the assertion that the migrants who have come to Denver were “mostly” sent by red state governors, much less sent against their wishes or intentions about where to settle. A little “common knowledge” is a dangerous thing.
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Right. The people in Denver handling this crisis are just liars.
Or maybe you should read this: https://coloradosun.com/2023/09/21/migrants-immigration-bus-tickets/
Unless, of course, snark is your sole purpose.
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I just read that, and it doesn’t say that migrants reaching Denver are “mostly” being shipped by red state governors (it says the city doesn’t know), and it says that Denver officials say they’re busing migrants out of state because migrants want to go to those out of state locations. For the third time, just like Texas says!
I don’t know why you’re upset. You’re the guy who (in a very pissy tone) claimed my comment about how migrants are reaching NYC was wrong based on purported “common knowledge” about how migrants are reaching Denver. That made zero sense, not to mention that I don’t give a sh!t about Denver.
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And we don’t give a toss about you.
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Clearly. I can’t otherwise imagine how an explanation of how things are in NYC could be rebutted with “NO BECAUSE DENVER”
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One third of Migrants are from Venezuela. They travel 2700 miles to the border. Now it is possible that all of them are fleeing Maduro and his authoritarian government. Not very likely though.
But after 3 American sponsored coup attempts followed by crippling sanctions imposed by Obama and Trump. I would argue that the oppression they are fleeing is US policy that has crippled their economy. The same argument can be made in much of Latin America. Not just countries we broke like Honduras where Clinton bragged about a Coup . Even Mexico where NAFTA increased poverty and extreme poverty in rural farming communities not even close to being made up in Manufacturing . Mexico since NAFTA one of the most anemic growth rates on the continent.
You could reduce border crossings by close to a third by just lifting sanctions on Venezuela.
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would argue that the oppression they are fleeing is US policy that has crippled their economy. The same argument can be made in much of Latin America.
Yes. The U.S. is reaping what it sowed, destabilizing governments throughout Latin America.
At one point during the Reagan maladministration, half the GDP of Honduras was American military aid. And now most of the ordinary citizens of Honduras pay protection fees to private criminal gangs. It is a lawless country. Or rather, it is a country where the real law is the strongest of the local strongmen.
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That kind of causal argument is above my pay grade. But for sure foreign policy can have implications like this.
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Maybe you missed this part, FLERP, but Hartmann contends that GOP propaganda is intentionally causing people to make a run for the borders. Every time there is a Democrat in the Oval Office, Hartmann posits, the Republicans advertise open borders. The messaging is uncanny. I’ve heard Hartmann talk about this before. He’s covered it in depth in many other articles and on his show several times over. Makes perfect sense to me.
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Yeah, not sure I buy that argument.
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The argument is absolutely easy to research. In this article alone, he has linked a good number of GOP politicians using the term “open border” from a simple Google search.
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That doesn’t mean they’re intentionally saying “open borders” to cause migrants to enter the US.
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FLERP, he also contends that ONLY the GOP uses the term “open borders” when talking about immigration. And it’s used ad nauseum. So while no one can prove that people are using that as a reason to come to the USA, it is quite a coincidence that the language is only used by the GOP when referring to Democratic presidents’ policies on immigration, and falsely, at that. No Democrats say that.
Let me ask you, if someone said that something you seek that has been out of reach for you suddenly is available, would you not take advantage of the information and find out for yourself in the only way you could?
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The GOP also says that Democrats want to “defund the police,” but Biden has never said that nor has any Democrat in his cabinet.
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Diane, they use their rhetoric to push their agenda.
Here’s a list of nine tropes the GOP is selling:
https://open.substack.com/pub/thomhartmann/p/why-have-americans-embraced-so-many-4a2?r=ottd6&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
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Brilliant!
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Ras-Putin’s puppet strings are like a venomous toxic web reaching around the world to most if not all countries causing endless suffering.
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Anyone want to discuss the disparate impact the millions of illegals have on our black brothers and sisters?
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Ah, the old divide-and-conquer gambit. And my oh my don’t you have a lot of identities today!
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Putin spends his day dreaming up ways to destroy democracies. To pay back Finland for joining NATO, he is playing a DeSantis trick: sending African and Middle Eastern migrants across the border into Finland.
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Strongmen use racism to rile up uneducated working people. Again and again and again and again. Same old story.
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You call yourself a social democrat, but your comments drip with condescension for working class people whose economic security is crushed by illegal immigrant labor. What you call “uneducated working people” are just racists who don’t have valid worries about their financial welfare. You can sneer at them from your position of having worked in jobs that don’t have low-wage competitors. You need to drop your feeling of moral superiority.
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You need to become better informed on this topic, Mr. Griffin:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-immigrant-workforce-supports-millions-of-u-s-jobs/
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See also, this:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-immigration-means-for-u-s-employment-and-wages/
And, yes, it is always easy for Reich-wingers to stir up the ire of the uneducated based on FALLACIOUS economic arguments that pit them against some scapegoat group. It’s the ploy that Fascists from Goebbels on have always used.
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Why does this work with uneducated people? Because they do not know better.
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So, undocumented immigrants (as opposed to “illegal” ones) are NOT a cause for economic insecurity among working people with little education, but telling them that that’s true works, as it did in Germany and Italy in the 1930s.
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I agree with Bob about undocumented workers. They are not taking jobs as sales people or auto mechanics or electricians’ helpers or long-haul truck drivers.
They are doing hard and dirty jobs that no one else wants to do—cleaning hotel rooms, washing dishes in restaurants, picking the harvest. The tourist industry and the agriculture industry depend on low-wage workers.
It’s a shame that newly arrived migrants are not allowed to work. That makes no sense.
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from Brookings
Although many are concerned that immigrants compete against Americans for jobs, the most recent economic evidence suggests that, on average, immigrant workers increase the opportunities and incomes of Americans. Based on a survey of the academic literature, economists do not tend to find that immigrants cause any sizeable decrease in wages and employment of U.S.-born citizens (Card 2005), and instead may raise wages and lower prices in the aggregate (Ottaviano and Peri 2008; Ottaviano and Peri 2010; Cortes 2008). One reason for this effect is that immigrants and U.S.-born workers generally do not compete for the same jobs; instead, many immigrants complement the work of U.S. employees and increase their productivity. For example, low-skilled immigrant laborers allow U.S.-born farmers, contractors, and craftsmen to expand agricultural production or to build more homes—thereby expanding employment possibilities and incomes for U.S. workers. Another way in which immigrants help U.S. workers is that businesses adjust to new immigrants by opening stores, restaurants, or production facilities to take advantage of the added supply of workers; more workers translate into more business.
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You always cite the Brookings Institution as if everything they write about immigration is unassailable fact. It’s not; there are other credible researchers who disagree with Brookings about the economic impact of large scale immigration of low-skilled, low-income people.
We have a progressive income tax system that redistributes income – on purpose – from higher income people to lower income people, either directly or via other public programs. That’s why higher income blue states in effect subsidize lower income red states. Lower income people are subsidized by higher income people: that’s true for American citizens and it’s true for undocumented immigrants who receive benefits from public programs like medical care and public schools. If those low income immigrants become citizens, they will become eligible for ALL public assistance programs, greatly increasing their aggregate costs. That’s why Canada has long had a “points” system that allows for much immigration of skilled, higher income people, and very limited immigration of people who will need public assistance. Canadians know that a country can have a generous welfare state or it can have massive immigration of low income people – no country can have both.
I speak as a CPA who has done a lot of pro bono work for low income people for 40+ years; I’ve seen thousands of examples of what they pay in income and property taxes, and I can reasonably estimate what they pay in sales taxes. My opinion here is grounded in knowledge of federal, state, and local taxes; your opinion is grounded in sentimentality, political correctness, and a need to feel morally superior. You lose this debate.
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Ah, I lose this debate because John says so. Hard evidence. LOL.
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Diane, you really think anyone who enters the U.S. as an economic migrant should immediately be given a work permit?
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FLERP,
If they are legally admitted and they want to work, why shouldn’t they get a work permit? Without one, how do they pay for food and shelter?
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Here’s a study of the net costs of illegal immigration – from 1995. Quadruple these figures to account for inflation over the last 28 years and for the current number of undocumented people now here. This study was performed before it became a career-killer to conclude that massive low-skilled immigration is a net fiscal loss to the United States.
As for the belief that all the undocumented should immediately be given work permits: how many jobs can those people do? The vast majority of them are not close to having the English language skills required for most jobs, and they can only do the most menial labor that doesn’t require English proficiency. This blog has little grasp of the employment market in the real world. How about we give millions of the undocumented teaching licenses so that they can teach K-12 classes? Wait, they would need English proficiency. See what I mean? Of course, you won’t.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12291891/
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How about allowing them to pick crops and work in kitchens and hotels?
There is one plus in keeping them unemployed: it drives up wages for those jobs.
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Diane, I think we’re talking about people who are not “legally admitted.” These are people who have come across the border, some of whom have filed for asylum, some of whom haven’t, none of whom have been granted asylum, and a very small portion of whom have legitimate asylum claims to begin with. Allowing economic migrants to work immediately arguably incentivizes even more migrants to come.
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dianeravitch
On what basis do you say they are not taking Jobs as Electricians helpers.
In the 1970s when the Business RoundTable declared war on Union construction they took a small Non Union Construction Maryland Business lobby, The Associated Builders and Contractors and financed a major expansion Nationwide absent a few very Blue Union Cities. The assault was driven by the Major Industrial end users. Rather than by contractors. The method employed forced General Contractors bids so low that they could only obtain Jobs using non union labor for subs or open shop jobs where all non union was not possible. Willing to put up with delays and cost overruns to crush the Building trades Unions. It was a Nationwide bloodbath. You can read about it in “Who Rules America ” By G. William Domhoff The first Edition I read in 1973 as a College Senior in a sociology class.
The ABC model was what is know as merit shop construction. Pay workers not by the trade they were in but by the tasks they were required to do. And break those tasks down to the smallest possible skill sets so that not many workers were required to have more than a small subset of skills. Where as a Union Electrician can be wiring Signal Racks controlling an entire subway line or a Fiber splice in the control panel at a Nuclear power plant. And the next day he can be carrying 4″ conduit and dumping it in a ditch for weeks on end .
As a Union Electrical foreman for 32 years I will tell you that much of the labor involved is not skilled labor. The Merritt shop method kicked our butts . Paying a mostly immigrant work force wages as low $9 an hour to do all the grunt work . To do repetitive tasks that one can be trained to do in a matter of days. A disposable work force in many ways including deaths and injuries on non Union Jobs.
Changes in accepted technology in the city and national code have meant that even more tasks are less skilled. A low paid work force for manual labor supervised and supplemented by a small skilled labor force.
The article I posted for Bob is dated . It is if you bother to read it,dated in that the numbers are from 2018 and19 when they estimate that the undocumented were 41% of the Cities Construction work force. In 2015 the developer of 111West 57th street declared he was going to break the Union Building Trades hold on construction in NYC . No matter what the cost .The more NYC developers saw they could complete projects, the more developers have turned to Non Union and open shop Contractors. I assure you that undocumented percent which mirrors the non union workforce is far higher today.
After going in detail about the exploitation of these workers some of the solutions they propose are what I posted here months ago. And you thought was great .
” Given that falls are the number one cause of fatalities on construction sites, the New York State Senate should not overturn the New York Scaffold Law.[1] This law requires that employers adhere to certain standards when using scaffolding and assigns liability to parties responsible for managing projects for any accidents due to faulty or lack of scaffolding. This law protects workers when workers compensation is unavailable, not provided, or insufficient. Some business interest groups have lobbied for the law’s repeal.
The New York State Senate should pass “Carlos’ Law.”[2] The law is named after an undocumented Ecuadorian immigrant, Carlos Moncayo, who died on a construction site that had several reported safety violations. The law would increase the fines for companies whose safety violations result in fatalities from the current $10,000 maximum to instead range from $500,000 to $1,000,000. The law would also make worker endangerment first-degree, second-degree, and third-degree felonies.
The New York State Senate and the Real Estate Board of New York should include prevailing wages for construction workers in the New York State 421-A Affordable New York Housing Program.[3] Set to expire in June 2022, the program requires a prevailing wage for building service employees and a minimum average wage for construction workers in certain buildings. Governor Hochul’s 421-A replacement plan would exclude construction workers from the wage provisions. If the program is renewed, it is important that construction workers be accorded the same prevailing wage standards as those in the building service trades.
State and local representatives should attend union and workers’ centers’ meetings to gather information to make informed decisions on legislation.
New York City should offer subsidies for workers’ centers and other CBOs to provide more safety and job training.
The NYC Mayor’s Office of Immigrant Affairs and the NYC Department Consumer and Worker Protection should produce more materials and hold campaigns about workers’ rights and opportunities that are specific to the construction industry. These materials should also be made available in indigenous languages.
The US Department of Labor (DOL) should ensure prevailing wages are attached to federal infrastructure funds in state and local construction projects.
The DOL’s Wage and Hour Division (WHD) should target smaller nonunion construction sites for more inspections to ensure compliance with labor laws.
The US Congress should create a pathway to permanent residence for undocumented construction workers by passing pending legalization bills, including a rolling registry program. Under the 1929 US registry program, long-term undocumented immigrants can gain legal status by proving continuous residence in the United States since a stipulated date. Unfortunately, the required entry date to qualify has not advanced since passage of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 19864 (Kerwin, Pacas, and Warren 2021). Moving forward and regularly advancing this date as part of a rolling registry program would decrease the undocumented immigrant population and help immigrant construction workers avoid exploitative working conditions.”
(many of the above have been priorities for Unions for decades . The 421a was renewed and Hochul did not apply prevailing wage to Housing built with State tax subsidies to Developers)
The report recommends that trade unions should:
Not exclude members on the basis of immigration status, and federal apprenticeship programs should not require social security numbers for entry.
(Of course Unions can not legally do that under current law)
Ensure the continuity of work for their members, such that they are trained and retrained to be able to have stable employment within a company, rather than returning to the union hiring hall upon completion of a project.
( a contractor only hires men when his volume of work requires them . I have worked for a contractor that went from 800 men to under 100 in a few months. Construction Jobs are not permanent they end )
(good Ideas all, except that the non Union contractor only cares about his small skilled workforce and can replace an undocumented un skilled workforce in a heart beat. Is anyone offering citizenship to undocumented workers who testify against employers for violating the NLRA. As we do in human trafficking. )
Most involve changes to Federal State and Local laws. All would be opposed by Business and the Right.
https://cmsny.org/publications/climbing-the-ladder-052322/
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Joel,
I apologize for thoughtlessly picking the wrong trade. I assumed that newly arrived migrants with minimal English skills would not be able to read instruction manuals or take skilled jobs. If I am wrong, I apologize.
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dianeravitch
I wish all of the men that worked for me over the years could read manuals and instructions. Most of the time on New Construction they don’t have to. The truth is a large proportion of all trades are unskilled repetitive labor.
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Your comment, Joel, reminded me of a story. A couple decades ago, movers had arrived to bring my stuff to the new house I had bought. At one point, they took a break and were leaned up against a tree, smoking. The following conversation ensued:
So, how long were you in for?
Seven years.
Seven years for murder? Wow, that’s great.
Yup.
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Ofc, we recently had a president who, by all reports, can barely read.
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Breaking and important news: Colorado Supreme Court kicks Trump off the Ballot
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4368569-trump-kicked-off-colorado-ballot-in-14th-amendment-case/
YESSSSS!!!!! Justice. At last.
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I’d hold off on the celebration. That’s going to SCOTUS.
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Yes, and Clarance Thomas is not going to recuse himself. Aie yie yie.
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Clarence
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of course crazy Bob would approve of this, sounds like a dictator. Lets remove political rivals and not let people decide haha you are nuts .
Blacks and spanish want trump, border 9 billion to close but you wanetd 100 billion to ukraine where all of you should move to
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Troll is back. New handle. Same troll.
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Educate yourself Moscow’s Asset Governing America (MAGA):
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.
14th Amendment, Section 3
–Crazy Bob
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BTW, Trump got only 9 percent of the black vote in 2020. One of the worst showings by any politician ever.
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We do not have 9 billion to close the border but we have 100 billions for ukraine. 15 million people allowed to come in unchecked and thats ok? There will be an attack inside the US now. Cartels stronger than ever. Nobody can see they want us a third world country and use the illegals to steal more votes? Can it not be any more clear? I hope they come to your houses, please take them in. Spending now billions on them to house, what an joke this country has become with biden/harris losers.
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How will $9 billion “close the border”?
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Exactly, Flerp. This person has no clue about anything that he comments on. Zero underlying actual information. Nothing but bullshit from the Reich-manosphere.
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Our troll who keeps coming back like herpes.
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Bob, is there a vaccine against them?
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