Kathryn Joyce, investigative reporter for Salon, reports that Doug Mastriano, Republican candidate for Governor of Pennsylvania, believes that abortion is murder. Mastriano is a far-right MAGA guy. Mastriano is not alone.
In an alarming article, Joyce shows the dangers of a growing movement to criminalize women who get abortions.
She writes:
This week, an old interview surfaced of Republican Pennsylvania gubernatorial nominee Doug Mastriano calling for people who have abortions to be prosecuted for murder. The comments came from a 2019 radio interview in which Mastriano was asked whether a “fetal heartbeat” bill he’d sponsored in the state Senate, which would have banned abortion after six weeks, would mean that anyone who obtained abortion after that point in pregnancy should be charged with murder.
“Let’s go back to the basic question there,” Mastriano replied. “Is that a human being? Is that a little boy or girl? If it is, it deserves equal protection under the law.” When the interviewer asked whether that meant he was calling to prosecute abortion as murder, Mastriano removed all doubt, saying, “Yes, I am…”
That may or may not be true, but Mastriano certainly isn’t the only Republican who’s raised the possibility of charging women who have abortions with murder. And not all those Republicans mirror Mastriano’s far-right track record or his lengthy association with extreme elements of Christian nationalism.
In May, just days after news broke about the Supreme Court draft opinion that would ultimately overturn Roe v. Wade, Republican state legislators in Louisiana advanced a bill out of committee that would have classified abortion as homicide, allowing prosecutors to charge anyone who obtained one with murder. The so-called “Abolition of Abortion” act would have “ensure[d] the right to life and equal protection of the laws to all unborn children from the moment of fertilization by protecting them by the same laws protecting other human beings.” In other words, the laws and criminal penalties that apply to homicide would be extended to fetuses as well….
In the larger national picture, women are already being prosecuted for murder and other felonies, both for abortions and for other pregnancy outcomes, including miscarriages and stillbirths.
“Unfortunately we don’t need to criminalize abortion to charge women,” said Purvaja Kavattur, a research and program associate at National Advocates for Pregnant Women, who said that the success of the “fetal personhood” movement — which holds that embryos and fetuses should have the same rights as “already born” people — has led to a sharp increase in prosecutions related to pregnancy.
The U.S. has the worst prenatal care of any developed nation. The new anti-abortion laws will frighten pregnant women away from medical care.

I think abortion supporters come at abortion from the wrong angle, engaging the non-winnable argument about whether a fetus is “alive” or “human” and whether having an abortion therefor constitutes “murder”. That’s a religious/philosophical argument that cannot be settled with any proof, but the “pro-llife” side has the more emotionally compelling argument.
The issue should be that no life can be compelled to sustain any other life. If Person X needs a kidney and Person Y is the only compatible donor on the planet, Person Y cannot be compelled to donate their kidney even if that means Person X’s death. Heck, they can’t even be compelled to donate blood. Even if Person X is Person Y’s own son/daughter. So long as the fetus is not viable outside the womb, the mother has sole control of whether her body should continue to sustain that life. (The vast majority of abortions performed post-“viability” are precisely because the fetus is not viable or will not remain so for very long after birth.)
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I agree in two ways. First, your logic about one person being immune from sustaining life of another is hard legal logic. Second, the determination of the beginning of life is a fundamentally religious question. Since establishing religion is decidedly forbidden, there is no question that deciding when life starts is a decision reserved for the individual.
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Both of you make compelling, logical arguments in support of defending a woman’s right to choose that women believed was “settled law,” until the theocrats on the Supreme Court decided that it is a state’s right to interpret the law.
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Het is verbazingwekkend om dit informatieve artikel over donatie te zien.
https://whydonate.nl/doneerknop-donatie-website-plugin/
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I have no idea what this means? But the idea that we should concede that abortion IS murder because just saying “abortion is murder” is so “emotionally compelling” is ridiculous to me.
If “abortion is murder” was emotionally compelling, then this country would have extreme abortion restrictions, since that is EXACTLY what anti-choice advocates have been saying from day 1.
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^^PS, the “abortion is murder” argument hasn’t worked except with the anti-abortion folks, and the majority of Americans oppose radical anti-abortion laws.
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Thanks for admitting you have no idea.
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Women who choose to have abortions under the regulations of Roe v. Wade are NOT murderers, dienne77.
And while dienne77 may think it is “emotionally compelling” to say that those women murdered their babies because they had an abortion, it is a TERRIBLE idea to concede the discussion of whether women who have abortions (or the doctors who perform them) are murderers or not, since that is an “non-winnable” discussion.
Let’s also concede that it is “unwinnable” to try to argue that union teachers aren’t lazy and greedy because many people believe they are lazy and greedy and we must recognize how “emotionally compelling” it is to say that teachers are. It is an “unwinnable” argument to try to counter that since that argument is so “emotionally compelling”.
So let’s act as if there is no possible way to counter “emotionally compelling” arguments like “abortion is murder” and “union teachers are greedy and lazy”. Instead, let’s allow that propaganda to be legitimized by remaining silent when that propaganda is amplified.
Because it’s so helpful to pro-public school folks to concede the assumption that union teachers are lazy and greedy, but hey public schools are still important for some people.
And it’s so helpful to pro-choice advocates to concede that abortion/murder is okay because the mother wants to murder her child and her rights are more important.
Not.
In fact, what is “emotionally compelling” is explaining that abortion RESTRICTIONS are murder and pointing out how right wingers want women to die.
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Folks might be interested in this fifty year old paper by Judith Jarvis Thomson: https://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil160,Fall02/thomson.htm
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In related news , DeSantis wants to track the menstrual cycles of women and girls who take part in sports in Florida.
Obviously, it is largely meant to “catch” trans gender females and keep them out of female athletics, but on top of that, there is something very weird (and even possibly perverted) about this whole thing.
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This sounds like the kind of thing frat boys might do in college to make sure they don’t get sorority girls pregnant.
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Good morning Diane and everyone,
Hi Poet,
Wow! What frat boys are you thinking of??? Of all the men I’ve ever met, none of them seemed to give a rat’s patoot about women’s menstrual cycles!! I can’t imagine they would know thing number one about the whole thing! But your comment made me laugh, so thank you!
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DeSantis has a fundamental fascist streak that runs through his body. There is nothing he would not do to impose his wishes. In Florida, you are free to do what DeSantis tells you to do.
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Why do we bother to sign HIPAA privacy documents when we seek medical care? It seems like there is no privacy when everyone’s personal information is online, and almost anyone can access that information without permission.
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Mastriano would protect embryos who are “girls” and “boys”. He doesn’t mention intersex embryos; should protection be extended to them or nah?
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But when it is revealed Mastriano paid for 3 ex girl friends to have abortions; he will be redeemed. I say that he should get the injection and seek redemption on his way to hell.
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Kind of of like Russell Long’s aphorism, “Don’t tax you, don’t tax me, tax the man behind the tree.” However in this case, “Redemption for me, but not for thee.”
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I need some emojis
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Over a billion Catholics believe that abortion is murder simply because that’s what the Pope tells them to believe.
And they don’t question the Pope, not even when one of his high level associates accuses the Pope of covering for a pedophile Cardinal.
“A damning allegation from Catholic leader charges Pope Francis of covering for Cardinal McCarrick despite knowing about his sexual abuse record.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/08/28/pope-francis-knew-cardinal-mccarrick-sexual-abuse-catholic-churchcolumn/1109251002/
A person who will believe the Pope over the testimony of victims of sexual abuse will believe anything.
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Does that same billion believe that women should have no voice in the Church? Women enable their own relegation to second class citizenship when they voluntarily support their sexist churches and send their kids there for indoctrination.
When churches exercise right wing politics, the women who support them, in effect, harm all women.
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How about having politicians in Indiana being charged as murderers for not doing anything to prevent maternal deaths? Hoosiers received a tax rebate from the state because of Indiana’s ‘great budget’.
The Governor’s Public Health Commission found that Hoosier health was woefully lacking. Indiana is among the worst in the country for mental health, infant mortality, early adult mortality , obesity, smoking rate and suicide. Now you can add the statistic that there was a 46% increase in the state’s maternal deaths in 2019. Quote: “Nearly 4 out of 5 maternal deaths tallied in Indiana for 2020 were PREVENTABLE.”
………………………..
[The Times] Indiana maternal deaths increased 46% in 2020, study finds…Oct 3, 2022
The number of Hoosier women dying in childbirth, or within one year of delivery, is soaring — even before Indiana’s near-total abortion ban potentially compels up to 8,000 additional women each year to carry their pregnancies to term.
A new report by the Indiana Maternal Mortality Review Committee shows 92 pregnant and postpartum women died in connection with the 78,500 live births in Indiana during 2020, a 46% increase from the state’s 63 maternal deaths in 2019, and the 60 maternal deaths identified by the committee for 2018.
Nearly 4 out of 5 maternal deaths tallied in Indiana for 2020 were preventable, the committee found.
According to the report, 18 of the 92 deaths (20%) were directly related to medical issues associated with pregnancy, and mostly occurred shortly before, during or within six weeks of giving birth…
Data show Black women had the highest rate of pregnancy associated deaths in 2020 with 208.4 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births.
That was nearly twice the maternal mortality rate of white women in Indiana, 107.8 per 100,000, and also well above the rate for Hispanic women, 70.8 per 100,000, according to the report…
Dr. Kristina Box, the state health commissioner, said the tireless work of the review committee to identify and confirm maternal deaths in Indiana sets the stage for policymakers to implement measures aimed at reducing the number of maternal deaths in the future.
Those recommendations include increasing state funding for maternal health improvements, such as publicly funded child care beginning in infancy; comprehensive, evidence-based sex education; universal access to long-lasting, reversible contraception; Medicaid and insurance coverage for more medical procedures; and access to public transportation.
The committee also is urging state lawmakers to increase funding for mental health and substance abuse treatment; the Department of Child Services and other social service agencies capable of intervening, when necessary, with Hoosier families in crisis; and services to connect high-risk patients to appropriate medical care.
https://www.nwitimes.com/business/healthcare/indiana-maternal-deaths-increased-46-in-2020-study-finds/article_95d2804b-b3b4-5b3f-901c-35541580d8e1.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share
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RED state theofascist tyranny is worse than arresting women for murder that have an abortion.
Back in 2015, this report shows that Tennessee was the first state to make it a crime to take some Dr. prescribed pain killers while pregnant. One woman even ended up going to prison because of the pain killers she was taking for her migraine headaches.
https://healthandjusticejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40352-015-0015-5
The doctors can end up losing it all and end up in prison, too.
“Even Exceptions To Abortion Bans Pit A Mother’s Life Against Doctors’ Fears”
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/even-exceptions-to-abortion-bans-pit-a-mothers-life-against-doctors-fears/
To most if not all Republicans, women have only one use, to be an incubator and have babies. If they die, too bad. If their children are born into crippling poverty, too bad. Most if not all Republicans also do not care about the quality of a child’s life after its born.
This is a perfect example of what I call tribal (gang, group, religious) insanity:
“Mass hysteria refers to an outbreak of unusual and uncharacteristic behaviors, thoughts and feelings, or health symptoms shared among a group of people.” …
“Beyond the events in colonial Salem, Massachusetts, plenty of historical examples of mass hysteria exist. Yet this phenomenon still happens in the present day, fueled partly by the internet and social media. Still, there’s a good bit of confusion around what it involves.”
https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/mass-hysteria#:~:text=Mass%20hysteria%20refers%20to%20an,specific%20has%20triggered%20their%20symptoms
I think the Catholic Church’s inquisitions and its crusades were also an example of mass insanity.
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I think that for an action to qualify as murder, the entity that is the object of the action has to have the ability to experience at least minimal consciousness. And whether that is so is actually a scientific issue.
https://www.nature.com/articles/pr200950
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I believe that to be a necessary if not sufficient condition.
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Consciousness is like pornography.
You know it when you see it.
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LOL. Yes. But I have a scientific definition, from the brilliant Eva Jablonka, for whom I have enormous respect, in moderation. I hope that it will soon appear here. It’s directly below.
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5177968/
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I have a definition of unconsciousness:
Fox News.
And Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson are exhibits A and B
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An example of hard core consciousness is Stephen Hawking.
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See Jablonka’s list of attributes of conscious entities at 13:43 in this vid:
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Just wait until computers become conscious.
Unplugging them will be considered murder.
But plugging them back in will be considered resurrection. Every day will be Easter.
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One of my favorite bread recipes (I do a lot of baking) is entitled “He Is Risen.”
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HI Bob and Poet,
There are some very good Iain McGilchrist videos on Youtube and also on McGilchrist’s website. In one video series, he discusses chapters in his book The Matter With Things: Our Brains, Our Delusions and the Unmaking of the World. If you’re interested in consciousness studies, brain hemisphere, philosophy and psychology, I recommend them. And the book. 🙂
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I actually think McGilchrist’s book which, although long, is very readable. It’s really a groundbreaking book that encompasses such a range of topics and shows the big picture of the workings of the brain (although McGilchrist is NOT a reductionist) and gives many answers as to WHY we are seeing the many problems in our world today. I think it is a must read for every person who is striving and struggling to understand what is going on in the world and in our minds today. It’s not THE answer but it does give a rich and broad picture that interweaves science, philosophy, art, consciousness, creativity, mythology and psyche.
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I don’t know what consciousness is, but as I said , I know it when I see it– and I see it in my dog all the time.
And I suspect that many other animals are conscious to some degree.
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One can kill a carrot plant. One can render it no longer living. But one cannot murder a carrot. Why? Carrots are not conscious entities. They don’t have the following features characteristic of an entity possessed of minimal, simple consciousness (I cite the source following this list):
• simple [consciousness] (1) Flexible value systems and goals that reflect or give rise to the motivational values of the organism’s ever-changing internal states and actions (e.g., Block, 1995; Panksepp, 2005; Denton, 2006; Damasio, 2010; Dickinson, 2010).
• simple (2) Unity and diversity through sensory binding leading to the formation of a compound stimulus; the multiple underlying features of the compound are coherently and conjointly perceived, rather than each feature being perceived independently (see discussions in Tononi and Edelman, 1998; Engel et al., 2001; Llinás and Ribary, 2001; Crick and Koch, 2003).
• simple (3) Global availability of information, involving multidirectional feedback and reentrant interactions that generate a state in which information is available to different specialized cognitive processes (Baars, 1993) that are otherwise “computationally isolated” (e.g., (Dehaene et al., 1998; Edelman and Tononi, 2000; Seth et al., 2005; Dehaene, 2014).
• simple (4) Temporal thickness – the temporal persistence of mental states (e.g., James, 1890; Edelman, 1993; Lamme and Roelfsema, 2000; Crick and Koch, 2003; Shadlen and Kiani, 2013).
• simple (5) Selection – involvement of processes of exploration and selective stabilization at different levels (neural, behavioral), including processes of action selection and selective attention (e.g., James, 1890; Changeux and Danchin, 1976; Edelman, 1987; Freeman, 2000; Merker, 2007; Fernando et al., 2010).
• simple (6) Intentionality (aboutness) (e.g., Brentano, 1874; Searle, 1983; Freeman, 2000, 2003). There are processes of representation/referral; inputs from the body and the world are “mapped” onto dynamic perception and action models that are necessary for the constitution of phenomenal consciousness.
• simple (7) Self and embodiment – no account of consciousness is possible without addressing the obvious fact that there is an agent that is sentient: it is the animal rather than its nervous system that is minimally conscious (for an insightful and detailed discussion see Merker, 2007, 2013). Various interactions of the brain with the physical body (beyond the brain), such as neuro-hormonal relations (e.g., Malenka et al., 2009), bioelectric fields (e.g., Levin, 2013) and neuro-immunological interactions (e.g., Schwartz and Kipnis, 2011) constitute the rich sense of self in animals. However, current models of agency or self-construction are still preliminary. We therefore focus here on the animal’s ability to form a representation of its body as distinct from the external world, yet embedded in it, as these dynamics are relatively well-understood, and are thought by many to lead to a sense of agency and “ownership” of the animal’s experiences (O’Regan and Noë, 2001; Merker, 2007, 2013; Thompson, 2007; Metzinger, 2009; Damasio, 2010; Seth, 2013; Seth and Friston, 2016).
–from Bronfman ZZ, Ginsburg S, Jablonka E. The Transition to Minimal Consciousness through the Evolution of Associative Learning. Front Psychol. 2016 Dec 22;7:1954.
BTW, if you haven’t read Evolution in Four Dimensions by Ginsburg and Jablonka, you are missing out. It’s a profound and fascinating book with enormous import. NB: A lot of what you were taught in school about evolution and inheritance is wrong.
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By temporal thickness, she is referring to the “spacious present” adduced by William James in his Principles of Psychology. See the entry on James, here:
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see James, here
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“Consciousness in general and the birth of consciousness in particular remain as key puzzles confronting the scientific worldview..”. From the article summary.
Sounds pretty shaky to base law on something puzzling to a neuroscientist. Perhaps we should allow for some opinion as to the beginning of human life. I have come to feel it begins with being able to play the mandolin.
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No one has any idea what consciousness is.
And those who say they do are just fooling themselves.
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If one is going to use mandolin playing as the point at which abortion is no longer allowed, it seems that one must define “playing.”
What qualifies as “playing” the mandolin?
Is strumming a single note sufficient?
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I think that at the very least, to qualify as conscious, an entity should be able to play a Db Super Locrian scale, Ashoka Farewell, and a transcription for mandolin, tuba, glockenspiel, and patata dolce (ocarina) of Bach’s Arioso from Harpsichord Concerto No. 5 in F Minor BWV 1056.
But seriously, surely being capable of consciousness–sentience–is a necessary condition being an entity with moral standing. There’s a large literature on this. I refer you to that.
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By your definition, killing a Fox News host would not be considered murder.
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It would be more akin to George and Lennie in Of Mice and Men.
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Or the chief smothering Randal after he was lobotomized in One Flew over the Cookoo’s Nest.
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OK, you two cut it out and pay attention to the lesson.
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This whole matter is a sad turn for America–away from women’s rights and religious freedom. I would caution writers of all opinions, though, that we don’t know what someone “believes.” We know what they say and do, not what they think. In this matter it is a relevant point: Critics of abortion, women’s rights, etc., say they “believe,” but they may just be saying that to acquire the support of anti-abortion folks, church groups, etc. Most of the people who condemn abortion–especially in all cases–claim they support a “right to life.” Yet, many or most of these folks do not condemn capital punishment, war, proliferation of guns, or loss of life in pregnancy itself. There is no way to know for sure–since we can’t yet read people’s minds–but it seems–since most who would ban abortion do support wars, gun rights, etc., and often oppose efforts to provide health care to all, that they either don’t know their own minds or are insincere in their statements.
Further, many who oppose abortion–Catholics especially–often also oppose birth control mechanisms. I’m not sure if they subscribe to the notion–treated humorously by Monty Python–that “every sperm is sacred.” But if so, that helps explain their opposition to contraception.
At base, may be the fear of many about a soul–or its absence. If the “soul” enters the child at conception, it would seem wrong to kill it. If it doesn’t enter then, when does it? Thus, the idea that it comes from the father. Or worse–the worry that we don’t actually have one!
But all this is clearly religion. Soul cannot be proven or disproven, and should be left to religion–and we as a nation should adhere to the very 1st Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting” the establishment of religion. (Framers didn’t include the Sup. Ct. in that likely because they didn’t imagine the Supremes making law. Marbury-Madison came later, establishing the Ct’s authority in that regard).
So, once again, we don’t know what they think, but it appears folks want to ban abortion because of their religion, or for political reasons, or out of a confused sentimentality which places the life of a zygote–imagining it as a tiny child–over a mother’s.
We have a sign on our car that says: “Abortion Bans Violate My Religious Freedom.”
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Soul cannot be proven or disproven and should be left to religion”
Tell that to the people of South Korea.
And if Soul is where all life starts, why don’t all children speak Korean as a first language?
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Linda is correct that fear of promiscuity is probably another reason why some folks oppose abortion.
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I have always wondered how many abortions Trump has paid for.
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Me too.
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And how many illegitimate kids he has from women who refused to have an abortion.
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Quote: …many who oppose abortion–Catholics especially–often also oppose birth control mechanisms. I’m not sure if they subscribe to the notion–treated humorously by Monty Python–that “every sperm is sacred.” But if so, that helps explain their opposition to contraception.”
I was raised a Catholic but haven’t been to a mass for around 24 years. Many Catholic women do use birth control for contraception. However, it is considered a MORTAL SIN to use birth control.
The only acceptable form of birth control for Catholics is natural family planning , which relies on calculating a women’s infertile period during her menstrual cycle and only having sex on those days.[It doesn’t work.]
The Catholic ban on the use of condoms, or any other device, for contraceptive purposes remains. One of the pope’s most senior officials, Cardinal Rino Fisichella, told the press conference condoms were “intrinsically an evil”.
IF YOU DIE with a moral sin that hasn’t been confessed and forgiven by a priest you will spend eternity in hell. [Gross and barf on that thought. Catholic belief depends upon fear to get more Catholic babies born.]
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LOL
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Jack-
You should have included another reason in your listing.
There are enough people like conservative activist Robert P George (and, recent GOP politicians) who have reported that opposition to abortion and birth control is based on a belief/feeling about encouragement of promiscuity, that the reason shouldn’t be conveniently ignored.
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Diane, this is off subject but did you read Temple Grandin’s essay in the Atlantic called “Against Algebra”? I think it was just published today. It was really interesting and her perspective on how the current math requirements would have barred her from her incredible career were excellent.
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It’s a great article. Thanks for mentioning it!
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Hi Diane,
My name is Anthony Davitch. I have had trouble tracking my fathers history. We have no idea where his father was born. The only Davitch’s I know are related to me. You’re last name caught my interest. What is your cultural heritage?
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Anthony, Ravitch is my ex-husband’s family name. I think they came from Minsk. My family on father’s side was Lomza, Poland. On mother’s side, Beltsy, Bessarabia, now Moldova. No connection.
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