Harvard law professor Laurence Tribe was interviewed by the Washington Post about the Supreme Court. His answers were very informative. He refers to the current Court as “the Thomas court.”
Do you consider the Supreme Court to be in crisis now?
Yes. I have no doubt that the court is at a point that is far more dangerous and damaging to the country than at any other point, probably, since Dred Scott. And, in a way, because we even find Justice [Clarence] Thomas going back and citing Dred Scott favorably in his opinion on firearms, the court is dragging the country back into a terrible, terrible time. So I think that it’s never been in greater danger or more dangerous….
You testified against [failed 1987 conservative Supreme Court nominee] Robert Bork a long time ago and alluded to the kind of vision that he would have brought had he been on the Supreme Court. Where do you see the justices now on that spectrum — do you consider them to be similar to Bork?
I think there are five Robert Borks on the court right now.
Do you really?
And they are, in fact, probably to his right — that is, Robert Bork at least seemed to believe in preserving those aspects of free speech that conduced to meaningful democratic self-governance. That is, I didn’t see in Robert Bork the disregard for democracy, writ large, that I see in the current Supreme Court majority led by Clarence Thomas. And it is now surely more the Thomas court than it is the Roberts court.
Bork and the current justices, I think, were pretty much in the same place with respect to privacy. They all thought that Griswold v. Connecticut was wrong. And I think Thomas is much more candid than Alito in saying that he would certainly get rid of the right as a people to decide to use birth control, to use contraceptives, to have sex for purposes other than procreation. I think that it’s clear that they are going in that direction.
Take a case like Loving v. Virginia, which should matter to Clarence Thomas, given that he is himself, obviously, in an interracial marriage. There’s no basis for it in the Bork universe because, in the Bork universe, the original meaning of the Constitution is to be derived by what it looked like in 1868 or so. Racial intermarriage was unthinkable at that time. And neither the due process nor the equal protection bases of Loving or of Obergefell [v. Hodges] fit into the universe that Robert Bork envisioned.
What happened to Robert Bork is that he was more candid than people like Barrett,[Brett] Kavanaugh and Gorsuch and Alito and Thomas about their views. Remember when Thomas testified, he said he hadn’t even discussed Roe v. Wade. He barely knew the name of the case. And that, when he was a justice, he would basically be like a runner who would be stripped down bare and would start afresh and have no preconceptions and no agendas. What utter BS. I mean, I don’t expect anyone to come to a court with a blank slate — an empty mind, an empty heart. People bring experiences and ideas. But at least something of an open mind. These people don’t appear to have an open mind. It’s clear, on the things that are agenda items for them, they know exactly where they’re going to come out. And although they don’t literally lie under oath when being asked by Susan Collins, “Do you think this is precedent?” “Oh, yes. Oh, yes, it’s precedent,” they certainly were misleading. So it does feel like Robert Bork redux. It feels like “Back to the Future.” Except it’s back to a terrible past.
Do you think justices can be or ever were impartial? Is that an ideal that can be attained?
The court has always been quite political. And throughout much of our history, it’s been quite regressive. It is kind of a myth that the Supreme Court has been, you know, the shining city on the hill. It’s only during the very brief period from 1957 to 1969 or so, during the [Earl] Warren years, that the court really performed the function of ensuring one person, one vote, and moving toward racial and gender equality. That was a limited period. The court, for most of its history, has been very much in the thrall of economically and politically powerful groups. It retarded the progress after the Civil War by invalidating the civil rights acts and its invalidation of parts of the Voting Rights Act was fairly typical.
So I don’t have any illusion that the court was ever really neutral, nor do I think one can really define a point of neutrality. The idea that judges could be apolitical doesn’t make sense. But they can at least be fair. They can listen. They can give reasons for what they do and not have points of view that are so closed and preset that you might as well have an algorithm as a group of human beings. And what the current court is doing more than any court in our history that I can think of is simply saying, “It’s so because we say it’s so.” And then pull out things that are so transparently not arguments.
The entire interview is fascinating but too long to copy. I hope you can open it and read it.
For example, when Justice Alito says in the majority opinion in Dobbs: Don’t worry, this will have no implications for contraception; it’s special because it involves potential life. Well, of course, so does contraception involve potential life. And besides, he’s equating a definition with an argument. The underpinnings of his theory are that if you don’t find it written down in the Constitution — or in a history that goes back far enough that he’s citing judges who favored burning women as witches — if you don’t find those roots, it doesn’t exist. Well, if you apply that logic, it wipes out whole swaths of rights. So that’s not what I call a fair argument. That’s simply basically saying, you know, “I’ve got the votes, and so shut up.”

Another reason to vote for Democrats so Republicans do not have the White House ever again, or a majority in both houses of Congress. I think it’s time for the Republican Party to go and a new party controlled by moderates take its place.
Oh, wait, we already have a political party controlled by moderates, the Democratic Party. The liberal and progressive factions in the Democratic Party do not control it.
According to Brookings, in 2020, 24% of Democrats were liberals, 38% moderate, and 38% conservative. And if you click the link and scroll down, you will learn how important those moderates are during elections.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2021/07/23/have-democrats-become-a-party-of-the-left/
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Tribe conveniently leaves out his star student , John Roberts from his criticism.
But Roberts is really no different from the others. He voted with the majority on Citizens United, on the Mississippi abortion ruling that was used to overturn Roe (even though Roberts wrote a separate opinion on that) and on the “praying coach” decision ( which was based on an outright lie). The only difference between Roberts and the others is that he pretends that he is not an extremist and that he has respect for the. Constitution and for precedent. Roberts actually had the audacity to claim he did not want to overturn Roe, while at the same time siding with the majority on the Mississippi ruling (a distinction without any real difference)
In his attempt to hide his extremism, Roberts is actually more dishonest than the rest.
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Tribe is letting his personal feelings toward Roberts interfere with his assessment.
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If Roberts had even an ounce of respect for the Constitution and for the Supreme Court, he would resign and let Biden choose his replacement.
But I would not hold my breath.
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As they say, elections have consequences. On the positive side, electing Joe Biden to the presidency prevented another far right wing apparatchik from being appointed to the SCOTUS. Wouldn’t you know that in the one term of his putridness, Trump, got to appoint 3 far right wingers to the court. In an ideal world, the Electoral College would be flushed down the toilet of history and the SCOTUS justices would be term limited and not serve for life or until they decide to retire. But we are stuck with the E.C. and justices for life on the super duper court. This is why it’s so important to vote Democratic in spite of guys like Chris Hedges who will never vote for a Democrat because blah, blah, blah and ideological puritanism. It will be decades before we even have a glimmer of a chance of having a liberal leaning SCOTUS. Too sad for words.
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The U.S. Supreme Court is NOT supreme:
The conservative “originalists” on the Supreme Court can find no more ORIGINAL authority on our Constitution than James Madison, whom we honor as “The Father of the Constitution” — and James Madison recorded in the actual minutes of the Constitutional Convention of 1787 that when writing Article III, the intent of and the understanding among the delegates was that “the jurisdiction given [to the Supreme Court] was constructively LIMITED TO CASES OF A JUDICIARY NATURE” and did not include issues of constitutionality.
Thomas Jefferson, author of our Declaration of Independence, pointed out: “The question whether the [Supreme Court] judges are invested with exclusive authority to decide on the constitutionality of a law…there is not a word in the Constitution which has given that power to them more than to the Executive or Legislative branches.”
Founding Father Jefferson also pointed out the very real danger to our republic of allowing the Supreme Court the non-constitutional power to decide the constitutionality of laws: “Our judges are as honest as other men and not more so,” Jefferson noted. “They have with others the same passions for party, for power, and the privilege of their corps…and their power is all the more dangerous because they are in office for life and are not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots” and “Experience has already shown that the impeachment it [our Constitution] has provided is not even a scare-crow…The Constitution on this hypothesis is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form they please.”
Since the Constitution does NOT give the Supreme Court any authority to decide on the constitutionality of laws, where did the Court seize the authority that it claims to have? Well, the Court GAVE ITSELF that alleged authority in its Marbury v. Madison ruling.
Must be nice to give yourself constitutional authority that the Constitution doesn’t give you.
When the Court gave itself that unconstitutional authority, Jefferson sadly said that it was “the end of our democracy.”
He was right, as is clear today.
And the REASON why the Supreme Court has been allowed to get away with unconstitutionally making constitutional decisions is because with the Supreme Court doing the job for them, members of Congress don’t have to pass often unpopular laws — they can let the Supreme Court do the dirty work and then the members of Congress can say to their voters “See — it’s that terrible activist Supreme Court that has done this, not us.” In short, allowing the Supreme Court to make the hard decisions gets the cowardly Congress off the hook with voters.
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Great Scott!
Thomas is Dreadful
Bringing up Scott
And wife has a head full
Of Q-anon plot
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Dredfull
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Brilliant, SomeDAM!
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hat the current court is doing more than any court in our history that I can think of is simply saying, “It’s so because we say it’s so.” And then,from their anus, pull out things that are so transparently not arguments.”
Fixed it for Tribe.
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Supreme Court Majority Opinion
They pull it from their anus
And logical it’s not
Majority is famous
For argument from snot
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I agree, but it’s more fundamental than that. What’s the thread that ties together every topic discussed in this essay? Religion. As Linda points out accurately and consistently, while popular (whatever that actually is) opinion associates religious fundamentalism with fringe Protestantism. The real power center and influence is in official Catholic Church policy and the zealots who interpret it as narrowly as rhetorically possible.
The irony, of course, is that if these conservative religious adherents actually believed their message was self evident to those who “accepted the Lord into their lives,” why do they zealously promote coercive and punitive measures with the belief that this will increase the power and influence of the Church?
“My priest is not like that”. or seats is not an acceptable excuse when the machinery of official policy grinds on, expecting solutions all the time.
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This month, The New Republic described Rep. Tom Emmer (Minn.) as the “Republican party’s stealth bomber.” One of his strong suits is fundraising. PR Watch described him in 2018 as a Koch candidate. Emmer shares many characteristics with Leonard Leo. He’s got 7 or more kids and the same religion.
Emmer is the National Republican Congressional Committee Chair. He said the GOP is focused on attacking CRT. Emmer attended St. Thomas Academy, an all male, Catholic (30% of Catholic schools are single sex), military college prep school. He is virulently opposed to same-sex marriage. He has a 100% rating from National Right to Life and he supports school choice for every family.
He is all in for Trump, labeling him a fantastic ally.
Emmer is in the news today, as Yahoo News describes it, for managing to be both sexist and racist during an interview. What would be more surprising is if he managed not to be.
We all have reason to regret the protection that the powerful conservative Catholic apparatus receives from media and influencers which began at the time of the confirmation of Judge Scalia. (Ryan Girdusky’s interview posted at Pat Buchanan’s site provides explanation).
Greg, thanks for joining me in calling it out.
A story that sheds light on why women who vote Republican are stupid. Emmer almost got into a physical fight with a fellow politician. The next day, he brought an apple pie his wife made as a peace offering to the guy. Women – baby factories and pie bakers (to smooth things over for sexist, combative men.)
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Thank you, Dr. Tribe, for telling it as it is. This court laid several precedents, this last term, for undoing democracy, and it has on its docket several more for next term. These decisions, taken together, will be our equivalent of Germany’s Enabling Act. They will enable full-blown Fascism in the United States. And yeah, political and religious authoritarianism are typically hand-in-hand, have been ever since the first city states, built around a centralized, human-made mountain that served as the administrative and command and control center of a God-King ruler, housing that ruler and his family, the wealth he had appropriated by force from the people, the warriors to enforce that, and the priests to tell people that their subservience was the will of God.
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This court laid several pr
eciestedents this last term, for undoing democracy,Priestedent: law based on what a priest preaches.
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I was thinking I might sign up for Amazon Prime Video, Netflix, Hulu, or another such service, but I did some research, and none of them employs some really old guy with the views of Cotton Mather or Father Caughlin to tell me what I should watch. A flaw in their business model? Clearly. Fortunately, we now have a supermajority of such people on the Extreme Court to tell us what we can do and say politically, socially. Just think, only a few days ago–horror of horrors–women thought they could make their own decisions about their own reproduction. Perhaps the Just Us-es should adopt those tall hats with the buckles that the Puritans used to wear. We could even get a nice bonnet for Goody Barrett.
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Would look nice with the black robes, right? And think of the photo! The Council of Magistrates, 1636.
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Enjoyed this interview. Read on — there’s a good exchange on why/ whether to add Justices.
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Add negative 6.
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I think the silver lining of the Dobbs decision is that it has reinvigorated our democracy. People are becoming vigilante again.
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I agree. Republican women and their daughters have had abortions. For half a century, the right to control one’s body was a right, not a crime.
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Guardian posted, “Texas conservative phone company fueling extremist takeover of schools” (9-5-2022).
The story is about Patriot Mobile which identifies Chris Wilson as its founder. Patriot Mobile’s Facebook page “invites you to watch a new pro-life film.” It seems likely that the same Chris Wilson is a Republican strategist who was active in Pat Buchanan’s 1992 campaign. And, he may have been a panelist at the Council for National Policy event that New Republic recently posted about.
RationalWiki.org, in its description of Patriot Mobile, draws links to ADF and NRA and references an argument expressed by the firm, church and state cannot be separated. Wilson may be the same person who brought Cambridge Analytica into Trump’s campaign. Cambridge Analytica is linked to Thiel who said, women voting in a capitalistic democracy was an oxymoron. Thiel funded Blake Masters and JD Vance’s Senate campaigns.
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TE says “People are becoming vigilante again.”
Actually, there was no shortage of anti-abortion and other primarily right wing vigilantes(eg,Abortion clinic bomber Eric Rudolph and self appointed “neighborhood patrollers” Eric Zimmerman, Kyle Rittenhouse) before the ruling.
But perhaps TE meant vigilant and not vigilante?
Ha ha ha
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George Zimmerman was the vigilante
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I think TE meant that Republicans may lose elections because of the Supreme Court’s abortion decision. I hope so.
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TEs argument in a nutshell:
“If only the Supreme Court Majority would rule free speech unConstitutional, it would reinvigorate our democracy. People would become vigilante again”
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And if the Supremes would rule the entire Bill of Rights unconstitutional, just imagine how invigorating it would be for our democracy and how vigilante people would become.
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Hell, even the couch potatoes who never vote would probably become ultra-vigilante if the latter happened, which would be very good for our democracy.
As Captain Picard liked to say “Make it so, Justice Roberts”
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Did you mean vigilantes? Or vigilant?
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“although they don’t literally lie under oath when being asked by Susan Collins, “Do you think this is precedent?” “Oh, yes. Oh, yes, it’s precedent,” they certainly were misleading.”
Only a lawyer could make such a distinction .
Most nonlawyers would consider a misleading statement a lie.
It’s important to note that a misleading statement is not simply false (which can happen quite honestly through ignorance), but purposefully so.
Also, if any “ordinary” person was misleading under oath (eg, in a court or to the FBI) , they would very likely be charged with perjury and do jail time.
But of course, Supreme Court justices are given a pass by folks like Tribe because, well, they are subject to a different standard than the Hawvid Law legal standard.
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Subject to a different standard: the Hawvid Law legal standard.
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“when the court becomes so headstrong and so out of touch with modern reality and so unwilling to listen effectively to counterargument and so agenda-driven and so committed to its, really, alternative facts is that at some point, people will start defying what it says.” — Laurence Tribe
Tribe just can’t bring himself to apply the term “lies” to Supreme Court justices.
“Alternate facts” are lies when one knows they are untrue (eg, as the six members of the majority — including Roberts — certainly did in their “praying coach” ruling)
It’s long past time to dispense with the euphemisms and call a lie a lie.
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Exactly, SomeDAM
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SomeDAM, that’s HAAAvud, aka the Elite Senior Living Facility for Elderly Epstein Clients
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Kinda makes you wonder if Tribe told his kids and his students at Hawvid Law school “For future reference, misleading statements and alternate facts are not lies”
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Cuz, who knows, the distinction could come in handy.
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And not just for legal matters but for all manner of matters both public and private.
In relationships, for example: “Dear, remember when I said I was not having an affair? That was not a lie. Just an alternate fact.”
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And remember when I said the house did not burn down because I was smoking in bed but instead was started by a photon torpedo from an alien spacecraft? Again, not a lie but alternate fact.
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A very valuable lesson indeed.
Why didn’t I ever learn this lesson from my parents or college professors?
Damn, I could have put it to good use so many times.
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Here’s the thing that the smarter Republicans (I’m not talking about the MAGA rally Trumpanzees) understand that Democrats generally haven’t grokked yet:
If voting is not restricted immensely, in a short while, Republicans almost never win again.
Why? Because the demographics are against them. Young people don’t share their views. Neither do people of color. The average age of the Republican voter is getting older and older.
So, the Republican Party HAS TO MOVE TO FASCIST AUTHORITARIANISM IF IT IS TO SURVIVE. This is existential for them.
So, no. This is no longer one of two democratic parties with differences. We now have, in the U.S., one democratic party, small D and capital d, and one anti-democratic, Fascist party.
They must win all three branches over the next two years, and then they must dramatically restrict dissent and access to voting, and they must institute indoctrination and propaganda programs. They must go full-bore Fascist, or they disappear. They go the way of the Know Nothings.
And that’s fine with them. They don’t care about democracy. They don’t want “the little people” having a say or very much of the pie.
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They must win all three branches over the next two years, and then they must co-opt the legal and police and military systems to restrict, dramatically, dissent and access to voting, and they must institute indoctrination and propaganda programs in and outside schools. And they must make it very, very dangerous to oppose them in any way, on the slightest matter.
And all the while, they will talk about how they are making the country freer.
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I thought protected filthy traitor Ginni Thomas was looking forward to clearing the air of “misconceptions”? I guess that’s changed now that her conspiracy to invalidate the legally certified vote in Wisconsin as well has been discovered. The Thomas court is hemorrhaging legitimacy since it has so rapidly devolved into a majority clown car of anti-democratic Catholic theofascists and legal atavists who slavishly do the bidding of dark money billionaires. It is far past time to expand this dysfunctional Court before they empower state legislatures to invalidate the will of the people and declare fraud whenever they lose elections without having to provide a shred of evidence in a court of law.
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The duplicity of the Republican Catholic Church is profound.
In mid August, there was evidence from the USCCB of a campaign to promote a federal bill that would mandate school choice. As you note, Callisto, states rights is the usual GOP method for taking away rights but, when Catholics want taxpayer dollars to fund their church, they plot for federal law.
More people are going to need to wake up (assuming it’s not too late to fight theocracy). The nation should never have allowed Catholic organizations to become the 3rd largest U.S. employer. It’s on that front, that we will be seeing the stranglehold of the conservative religious in the future.
This month, the New Republic wrote about the NRCC’s Chair, Tom Emmer of Minn. He’s father of 7, anti-gay marriage, anti-abortion, pro-Trump, a Koch-funded candidate and promotes the anti-CRT platform for GOP political campaigns.
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Josh Marshal- “…fruit of the poisoned Federalist Society tree, the taproot of the current corruption of the federal judiciary.”
The religious demographics of the Federalist Society should receive attention. It would help to clarify which religion is in power in the push for theocracy.
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