A recent study by scientists at Yale concluded that it was possible to bring a dead pig back to life by injecting them with a solution soon to be patented. Their goal is to create a source of organs for transplants. The heart valves of pigs, for example, are often used in heart surgery for humans.
If the solution works on pigs, it would probably work on humans. However, the scientists took care not to reactivate the pigs’ brains.
The ethics issues are complex and profound, far above my pay grade. But we all need to think about what could happen next, or after that, or after that.
Science writer Gina Kolata wrote in the New York Times:
The pigs had been lying dead in the lab for an hour — no blood was circulating in their bodies, their hearts were still, their brain waves flat. Then a group of Yale scientists pumped a custom-made solution into the dead pigs’ bodies with a device similar to a heart-lung machine.
What happened next adds questions to what science considers the wall between life and death. Although the pigs were not considered conscious in any way, their seemingly dead cells revived. Their hearts began to beat as the solution, which the scientists called OrganEx, circulated in veins and arteries. Cells in their organs, including the heart, liver, kidneys and brain, were functioning again, and the animals never got stiff like a typical dead pig.
Other pigs, dead for an hour, were treated with ECMO, a machine that pumped blood through their bodies. They became stiff, their organs swelled and became damaged, their blood vessels collapsed, and they had purple spots on their backs where blood pooled.
The group reported its results Wednesday in Nature.
The researchers say their goals are to one day increase the supply of human organs for transplant by allowing doctors to obtain viable organs long after death. And, they say, they hope their technology might also be used to prevent severe damage to hearts after a devastating heart attack or brains after a major stroke….
The work began a few years ago when the group did a similar experiment with brains from dead pigs from a slaughterhouse. Four hours after the pigs died, the group infused a solution similar to OrganEx that they called BrainEx and saw that brain cells that should be dead could be revived.
That led them to ask if they could revive an entire body, said Dr. Zvonimir Vrselja, another member of the Yale team.
The OrganEx solution contained nutrients, anti-inflammatory medications, drugs to prevent cell death, nerve blockers — substances that dampen the activity of neurons and prevented any possibility of the pigs regaining consciousness — and an artificial hemoglobin mixed with each animal’s own blood.
When they treated the dead pigs, the investigators took precautions to make sure the animals did not suffer. The pigs were anesthetized before they were killed by stopping their hearts, and the deep anesthesia continued throughout the experiment. In addition, the nerve blockers in the OrganEx solution stop nerves from firing in order to ensure the brain was not active. The researchers also chilled the animals to slow chemical reactions. Individual brain cells were alive, but there was no indication of any organized global nerve activity in the brain.
There was one startling finding: The pigs treated with OrganEx jerked their heads when the researchers injected an iodine contrast solution for imaging. Dr. Latham emphasized that while the reason for the movement was not known, there was no indication of any involvement of the brain.
The older I get, the more I am inclined towards vegetarianism. Pigs are intelligent creatures. Do they exist only to serve our needs? Can we do as we wish with other creatures?
The Koch/Bezos/Arnold/etc. dream: actual zombie workers.
Oink …
Ethics be damned! Today’s science follows the money. There’s gold in the those organs. This discovery has the potential to help people in need of transplants, but who knows where it will lead? It reminds me of when scientists learned how create a gender specific embryo. It was a medical miracle, but it also created quite a few ethical dilemmas including the ability to deliberately create more male embryos while discarding female embryos, which is happening in certain cultures.
“Although the pigs were not considered conscious in any way, their seemingly dead cells revived.”
As Hamlet said, “There’s the rub.”
Can an animal be considered “alive” if it’s brain is not functioning? I’d say no because without the proper functioning of the brain, the only way an animal (including a human) can be kept “alive” is through artificial means (and pumping a solution other than blood through the animal would certainly fall in the category of “artificial means”)
Any claim that the Yale scientists have brought these pigs back from the dead is pure unadulterated yaleshit.
Incidentally some tree frogs can have up to 65% of their bodies subjected to subfreezing temperatures every winter and nonetheless revive in the spring and some people who have been submerged in cold water for extended periods have also been revived. But they were never really “dead” to begin with.
And in the case of the tree frogs, when the freezing temps come, their heart stops completely (for up to eight months!) And they nonetheless revive on their own when the temperature again increases- without any special Yale sauce, if you can imagine that.
Perhaps the Yale scientists should try to figure out nature does that trick, which is far more amazing than their patented OrganEx.b
OrganBS
In the case of the tree frogs, the critical organs including brain are infused with a natural “antifreeze” and they remain alive, even though the heart stops beating.
Alligators go through a similar hibernation process in winter in the South. They go into a zombie like state where their hearts barely beat, and they can remain in this state for several weeks until the cold weather passes.
The other problem with the Yale claims is that the mere fact that “seemingly dead cells revived” means neither that they actually were dead nor that when they “revived” they were again functioning properly.
Cancer cells are also “alive.”
“The researchers also chilled the animals to slow chemical reactions”
As I indicated above, low temperature can effectively put sn animal into a state of suspended animation.
So I would be curious how they separate the effects of “chilling” from the (claimed) effects of their miracle Elixir.
There might actually be something to their claims, but the piece quoted above is just hype.
In my opinion it’s a great discovery and regarding the brain . Oh God is the only one who can understand the most complex thing in the universe The human brain . Does that made sense ? I can donate my heart and give life to another person now my brain transplanted into another person? The question to ask . Who is the only one who can help us to have eternity life ? Science without Religion is blain , Religion without Science blain it’s . No wonder Einstein says the more study Science the more I believe in God . Ah Diane pigs are not cleans animals according Jews law
The death of a person (or any other biologically complex animal) is a process, just as life is a process. It is not an on/off situation, well unless one is immediately blown to smithereens from various nuclear or conventional bombs. The time it takes for the metabolic processes in the body to completely shut down varies, but takes longer than most people realize. The researchers doing this process are taking advantage of that biological fact.
This sort of hype has become commonplace in university press releases.
I was living out in Utah when U of Utah made the claims of having achieved nuclear fusion in a test tube.
The University was guarding the supposed secret to the process because they claimed to be patenting the process.
But it turned out no one could reproduce the results.
I don’t know why universities feel the need to hype this stuff which rarely (if ever) lives up to the miraculous claims.
And they are using crisper to alter genes. They want to bring back a mammoth elephant and a saber-toothed tiger.
it is s new world
Biogenetics is poised to be the big $$$$ investment of the future. Its all being led by mega billionaires with their ability to promote their agenda using labs at major universities. eg. Martine Rothblatt (SiriusXM), a trans-humanist already had a pig heart implanted into a human Dec 2021…..the man died in March 2022.
We can’t afford to feed people decent food, supplement for better living conditions or lower the cost of healthcare and medication, but tax sponsored university labs and their wealthy mega donors with an agenda just keep marching on with unscrupulous experiments. This is crazy stuff and its hit a point of being morally unacceptable. Haven’t we seen/heard this before?
Hmmm…OrganEx…that explains what has been done to most members of the Republican Party.
Wow
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHjisgsBkBBUrDwUDLrFuVA
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Bicentennial Man gave us a glimpse into immortality and it wasn’t good. We were not made to expire and then come back to life.
“… The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
lol
With the cost of medical care in the US, the only people that could afford to be brought back to life with this treatment are probably the wealthy and I don’t want wealthy people like Traitor Trump living forever while working class people live natural lives and die at the end of it without being revived with this science.
Imagine a world where Bill Gates or Traitor Trump are still alive a thousand years from now.
A thousand years from now?
The way things are currently going, there is no way the human species is going to survive that long.
Stephen Hawking thought the human species would be lucky to survive another century unless some of us can somehow leave the earth AND find another suitable place to populate.
And even then, the prospects are slim to none.
Despite all of Musk’s talk of going to Mars, getting there is actually the easy part. Surviving and propagating the species is going to be immeasurably harder.
If we can’t even survive on this planet where everything is basically handed to us on a silver platter, what chance do we have on a barren planet like Mars?
Relocation to Mars isn’t in the cards for all us little folks. It would be reserved for the people with astronomical incomes.
“with astronomical incomes” lol
Btw, can we send Musk to Mars soon?
The irony is that the people with “astronomical incomes” (ha ha ha) are the ones who would be least likely to survive on Mars.
Bill Gates and Elon Musk couldn’t survive more than two blocks from McDonalds.
The ones most likely to survive in the inhospitable environment of Mars are the folks who live in the most inhospitable environs of earth like the Sahara desert. But the latter folks will never get a ticket on Musk’s rocket.
The whole rocket to Mars plan is moronic. Some NASA ad ministrator thought it would be good to give Elon Musk a few billion dollars of our tax money (maybe so he could get a ride to the space station?)
Exciting stuff. Lives are saved by organ donation. I’ve signed up for this and for my body to be used for medical instruction when I’ve finished with it.
I just donated my body to the Yale Frankensteins and Myrrh experiments. The only problem is you have to agree to go before you die because the whole point is to bring you back after killing you.
I guess it never occurred to the Yale scientists that if they didn’t kill the pigs they would not have to bring them back to life.
Doesn’t seem kosher to me.
lol
Whatever else may be true, I’m pretty sure the Yale scientists would not eat any of the pork that was infused with their magic Elixir, knowing what was in it.
And that actually brings up an important question: what long term effect would the Elixir have on organs?
Would you want an organ transplanted into your body that had had every one of it’s cells infused with something that you knew nothing about? (and probably couldn’t know anything about because it was a proprietary secret)
Beware, if you consume the pork and feel your hair growing under a full moon you may have a serious problem
So, where do the commenters on this blog stand on the Star Trek transporter issue? As you will recall, a transporter supposedly converts all the mass of your body into energy, saves the locations of all the bits, and then reassembles the matter at a different location. (There has been debate about whether just the information is transported, in which case the person is reassembled according to the plan from ambient materials in the location to which he or she is transported, or whether both the information and the material are transported. The shows and spin-off films have not settled this issue but, rather, have been inconsistent.)
Here’s are the questions: When you are disassembled for transport, do you cease to exist? Is whatever is assembled at the destination you, or is it just LIKE you and thinks it is you?
In other words, which is the case? a. You are moved from one place to another. b. You die and are resurrected and are still you. c. You die and something new and like you but not you is constructed.
In my opinion, the Star Trek transporter is total BS.
But I think the flip phone that Kirk used to tell Scotty “beam me up” might be possible.
And those automatic sliding doors they had on the Enterprise might also be a possibility.
Oh, and stealth airplanes already use the Romulan cloaking device.
But I read recently that they are thinking of renaming it Trumpulan cloaking.
And the laptop computers, talking computers, and artificial gravity in Kubrick and Clarke’s 2001: A Space Odyssey
Yeah, the transporter bends the rule that distinguishes sci-fi from fantasy, that it has to be scientifically possible, though Lawrence Krause, the physicist who wrote The Physics of Star Trek, argues that such a technology might be possible but would require insanely vast amounts of energy and time and computational power. From where? I’m with you, SomeDAM. This bit from the program sets off the BS meter. For one thing, the idea that one can simply put the pieces back together in the same way dates to the time of a Laplacian, billiard ball model of the universe, not to one post quantum mechanics and field theory. As a writer of sci-fi myself, I would feel obliged, if I incorporated this into a story, to give some sort of scientifically possible if not plausible account for it.
Another personal identity and continuity thought experiment (or mind ____): As you may know, people can live (and regain most of their normal functioning) with ONLY one brain hemisphere. Suppose, that at some time in the future, brain transplants are perfected. They are used to transplant brains of folks who would otherwise die into healthy bodies. Suppose that one hemisphere of your brain is transplanted into one new body and the other is transplanted into a different new body. Is each resulting person you? Are there now two of you?
Could you then have dinner with yourself? Would you be involved in lawsuits with yourself over possession of your property? Which of you is married to your husband or wife? If your husband or wife sleeps with both of you, is that cheating, given that both are you?
OK. Imagine a future in which people have developed a technology that allows for the brain to be scanned and all of its contents transferred to a silicon brain in an android body. The new brain is an exact copy of you at the moment before you went under to begin the transfer procedure.
Now, imagine that the stored “you” is transferred TWICE, into two different bodies. BOTH are exact copies of you at the moment before you went under. So, are there now two of YOU?
Of course, as the two of you go off and have different experiences, you will start to diverge from your duplicate. Yes, maybe both of you will still be dynamite at chess and hate white chocolate and bubble tea, and perhaps both of you will love The Sopranos and Breaking Bad, the novels of Don Delillo, and old Joe Pass records. But one of you might, for example, learn Russian and become an avid SCUBA diver. Perhaps the other one of you is mugged and becomes fearful of crowds. Are the two yous becoming different people?
And if THAT is so, are you NOT the same person who inhabited a previous version of your body, years ago? Are you DIFFERENT people? Are you sure? Why?
Hi Bob,
Your underlying assumption is that everything that makes “you” you is “in the brain.” 🙂
Which is a fine assumption but may be mistaken.
I entirely agree, Mamie. What I produced, above, is not my own work. Rather, these are some common thought experiments from the current philosophical literature on personal identity. These are so common in that literature that one philosopher, Kathleen Wilkes, has written a whole book on why and how one can do personal identity theory WITHOUT using Gedankenexperimente. Her book is called Real People: Personal Identity without Thought Experiments.
On this business a equating people with the stuff of which bodies are made:
But the questions still work, Mamie. They just might have different answers. One might imagine a sci-fi story in which someone builds a transporter but the creature recreated on the other end is physically identical but, for want of a better word, soulless. LOL.
Or that might be impossible because people have no idea what “the physical” actually is. Let’s see, first it was solid stuff. Then it was an arrangement of atoms. Then it was interacting fields. Then, . . . ?
Another comment on your superb observation, Mamie: Our shifting and difficult-to-pin-down Self can be thought of as extended by our technologies, our relationships, our circumstances–the extended self. and then there is the temporal dimension:
My own take is that any Self we might have is an artistic creation and that there are many of these, ones we make and ones that others make.
A”The new brain is an exact copy of you at the moment before you went under to begin the transfer procedure.”
Some people believe the human brain is a quantum computer and it’s simply not possible to make a perfect copy of the quantum state of a system.
So if it is indeed a quantum computer, what you suggest won’t be possible even in principle.
But in practice, I think it will also be about as close to impossible as one can get. The human brain has nearly 100 billion neurons and perhaps as many as 1000 trillion synapses between them and even if the human brain is a classical computer and one had a technology to “scan” individual neurons to determine their exact state, practically speaking it would be impossible to do it for the entire brain simultaneously with zero errors.
The people!e who come up with these completely fanciful ideas haven’t really thought about them very deeply — or at all.
A lot of it comes from computer “scientists” who don’t know any physics or biology and are basically talking out of their anus.
Exactly, SomeDAM.
Some people believe the human brain is a quantum computer and it’s simply not possible to make a perfect copy of the quantum state of a system.
So if it is indeed a quantum computer, what you suggest won’t be possible even in principle.
In response to this criticism, based on the theories of Roger Penrose and others, the Star Trek folks introduced a magical device called a “Heisenberg Compensator,” lol, which is basically, “and here some magic happens.”
Many in the Personal Identity theory community have made similar observations, including Wilkes, in her Real People book, which argues that PI should do without these thought experiments, though they are great fun.
And not incidentally, the same argument against recreating a perfect copy of the brain and all it’s internal states applies to the Star Trek transporter, but the latter problem is immeasurably harder because one has to do it for every cell in the body.
The problem is actually not “just” a question of where the energy will come from, although that alone basically ensures that “transporting” a human will never happen.
More BS from people talking out of their anus.
One need not believe the specific theories of people like Robert Penrose.
All one needs to assume is that the brain is a quantum computer (however that is supposed to work).
May people believe that is impossible at room temperature, but personally, I would not rule it out given that so little is known about the brain and biological processes in general and there is actually evidence that photosynthesis in green plants may utilize the phenomenon of entanglement at room temperature as well.
But if one assumes the brain is operating as a quantum computer, the impossibility if copying it’s internal state actually follows from basic quantum mechanics. The inability to make a perfect copy of the state of a quantum system can not be “overcome” by any means. It is inherent to quantum mechanics that when one interacts with the system (eg, to “measure” it’s state), one essentially erases the superposition of states that comprised the initial state.
Physicists talk about “collapsing” the wave function, which is just technical umbo jumbo for what I just described.
The technical term for not being able to create a perfect copy of the state of a quantum system that one is trying to “measure” is called the “quantum no cloning theorem.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-cloning_theorem
And if one is proposing something that somehow circumvents it, one is proposing pseudo science atbest.
If quantum entanglement at room temperature is possible for even one biological system , i’d actually be surprised if evolution did not take advantage of it for many such systems, perhaps independently , if it gave a particular individual some survival advantage.
That would not mean the human brain is a quantum computer, of course, but it would mean that one can not argue that the brain isn’t a quantum computer because a quantum computer operating at room temperature is supposedly impossible.
And while we are on the topics of a) Frankenstein and b) transformative technologies:
So Yale reproduced Trumpanzees . Beating hearts . No brain activity .
But ours here in Flor-uh-duh are naturally occurring, organic Trumpanzees!
Not just Flor-uh-duh
“The older I get, the more I am inclined towards vegetarianism. Pigs are intelligent creatures. Do they exist only to serve our needs? Can we do as we wish with other creatures?”
If you ever need any convincing that pigs are not food, just watch one being killed. I once was led by Google’s algorithms to a video of some nutcase doing it with a chainsaw. Still haunts me. Vegetarianism makes one more humane and also more healthy. Meat eaters have far too many dangerous free radicals floating around in their vital organs. And vegetarianism does far more to help the environment and the climate than driving an electric vehicle, composting, and recycling put together.