Better late than never, I guess. Why wasn’t he arrested at the scene of the crime, he stood out like a sore thumb, a sore throbbing, bleeding cancerous, green-black thumb.
You just can’t make this stuff up! “A Trump supporter who became known as the ‘QAnon shaman’ after being pictured during riots at the US Capitol is reportedly a “failed actor” and conspiracy theorist described by his mother’s neighbours as “bizarre.”
Antifa exists almost entirely in the fevered imaginations of Trumpling crazies. The actual Antifa, which isn’t even an organization, consists of a few white young men who like to dress up like Neo in the Matrix and cosplay and pretend to be scary during otherwise peaceful protests asking for an end to systemic racism.
People who’ve been living with this stuff daily in Portland and other cities would disagree that Antifa is imaginary. This is Ted Wheeler, hardly a right-wing paranoiac.
Portland Mayor @tedwheeler: My good faith efforts at de-escalation have been met with ongoing violence and even scorn from radical antifa and anarchists.
It's time to push back harder against those who are set on destroying our community."pic.twitter.com/aj5rjyPTXE
FLERP, ever since the death of George Floyd, Fox News, Trump, and all the Trumplings have alternated between calling all the protestors Antifa, Socialists, and Terrorists. Obviously, this is a lie, and it’s a lie that has lead to the violent deaths of people peacefully calling for reforms.
Not all (or even many) protestors are “Antifa.” I’m just saying that “Antifa” (as well as the more general category of aggressive anarchist activism made famous in the northwest, no matter what it’s called) is a thing that definitely exists. It’s not imaginary.
Not disagreeing, but what specifically are you thinking of when you mention violent deaths of peaceful protesters?
Many hundreds of thousands of people participated in BLM protests around the country. These were almost all peaceful. Much of the violence attributed to the left was done by people who were not protestors but looters or folks who just enjoy anarchy and mayhem.
I think that Flerp’s comments above show that he is not making a false equivalency. He knows that the BLM protests were largely peaceful and that Antifa is a tiny group of people. He and I are simply arguing over how tiny.
Antifa: three white 20-year-old boys in Portland, who like to dress up like Neo in the Matrix and cosplay, who gave Trump and his Trumplings a bogeyman to blow up into a vast terrorist organization in yet another BIG LIE like the one about George Soros’s supposed “caravans”
FLERP! is making a false equivalency tantamount to those who normalized Trump as being no different than the democrats.
He was reacting to a small number (100?) of (in the Mayor’s own words) “largely white, young and some middle-age men” who “destroy the livelihood of others who are struggling to get by?”
And given that these people also meet the profile of the alt right, there should be names and photos of these “antifa” rioters.
This is from an article about an ORGANIZED group of right wing troublemakers:
“Joey Gibson, organizer of the far-right group Patriot Prayer, celebrated a group of mayors who planned to reopen their city economies in direct violation of state restrictions.
“This is the kind of leadership our country needs,” said Gibson, whose group has attracted white supremacists and engaged in violence at other demonstrations.
Incoming Clackamas County Chair Tootie Smith compared state health leaders to “the Gestapo” while speaking in front of the Capitol and beneath a banner advertising “Oregon Women for Trump.”
The protesters marched to Mahonia Hall, the governor’s official residence in Salem. Some then returned to the Capitol, where their interactions with police turned increasingly tense. The shouts and chants from the crowd shifted from calls to arrest Gov. Kate Brown to promises to no longer “back the blue” after protesters used what Salem police described as “chemical munitions” against law enforcement, and officers used pepper balls to hold back the crowd. Salem police declared the gathering an unlawful assembly and made numerous arrests.
Last month, far-right demonstrators who protested COVID-19 restrictions, the presidential election results and Brown attempted to break into the Capitol during the Legislature’s one-day special session.”
False equivalency, indeed. Unorganized “antifa” whose associations are not clear who used the peaceful BLM protests to cause havoc, versus generously funded right wing protesters whose main goal is not peacefully protesting but acting out violently and getting others to join them in hurting the people who they hate (anyone who doesn’t worship Trump).
No need to type so many words, I’m just addressing the narrow point that Antifa is imaginary. Not making any equivalency arguments, false or otherwise.
I’m going to try to bow out of the thread (with apologies for disrupting it), because I really don’t want to get into a “who’s worse” framing of this, or any discussion that would require me to suggest that what happened at the Capitol was not that big a deal.
^^^FLERP!, To be fair, I wrote my first reply – which you condescendingly denigrated as “too many words” – after reading your first comment, and while I composed my “too many words” reply, you replied to Bob Shepherd’s response to you with a better clarification.
As someone who too often writes “too many words”, I do so because I believe there is little point to writing short contradictory comments with links to the same far right publications that hyped the lies of the Trump administration as unexplained “evidence” of whatever point you are making. You could have begun an interesting discussion about antifa instead of posting something that was (accidentally? intentionally?) provocative to try to discredit the important observation that Bob was making on the grounds of some “narrow point”.
Offhand, I remember 1999’s ‘battle in Seattle at the WTO. Numerous violent ‘may day’ demonstrations in Portland and Seattle. Armed people in the capitol in Michigan, Trump inciting violence at his 2016 rallies, Rand Paul being chased in the streets. Without zero tolerance and stiff penalties, it will escalate on both sides.
Are the Michigan gun toters in prison? How about the people who chased Paul?
Oh ya, just don’t tamper with a smoke detector in an airplane bathroom. That is a real federal crime which will be prosecuted.
So much to unpack here, I’ll try to keep it brief. NYCPSP, what is being attempted here, very poorly, is called grasping at straw men.
The tweet that is referenced here speaks volumes. First, it’s from the Washington Examiner, a right wing rag funded by Philip Anschutz, an ultra right wing billionaire, Koch brothers wannabe who actually foments the activities of right-wing paranoiacs. It is handed out for free in DC and does not need advertising revenue. It was created because the looney tunes Washington Times never emerged as the right wing response to the Post as right wingers had hoped it would be. So instead, set up boxes around the city and pay folks to stand outside of downtown Metro stops to hand it out to rush hour commuters. It’s a joke.
Second, context. The date of this tweet is Jan 2, 2021. The video cited is from early June 2020. It is a response to the riots that broke out in Portland following the murder of George Floyd and the move of the Idiot to send federal forces into the city to escalate the situation and provoke protesters. This tweet tries to create a “both sides” scenario that just does not exist.
Third, and this is a point cannot be made enough, what little “organized” antifa activities that actually do exist are in the northwest. The are not aggressors, they are defenders. They come out to defend their cities from the activities of fascists. They do not terrorize for in order to delegitimize governing entities.
This is a very sloppy citation that doesn’t stand up in the court of reasonable scrutiny.
The tweet is a video of Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler. Yes, it was highlighted by the Washington Examiner. But the video is what it is. There’s a longer Facebook video if you’re interested (you may not be).
The tweet isn’t “citing a video from early June 2020” It’s showing a video of Ted Wheeler addressing the city on January 1, 2021, after the latest episodes of violence in Portland on New Year’s Eve. I don’t know what you’re talking about with June 2020.
If you think Ted Wheeler is decrying months of actions by people “defending their cities,” then I don’t know what to tell you. That’s not what he’s decrying. He’s decrying night after night of vandalism of local businesses and attacks on government buildings.
I am not suggesting that what happened at the Capitol is simply the flip side of the “Antifa coin.” I don’t really have words for what happened at the Capitol. I’m just saying that notion that Antifa is an invention of the right-wing, or “just an idea,” is not true.
Living with what stuff! So let me see ! Are you asserting that Antifa has ever had a demonstration, confrontation or action in the absence of either a White Nationalist attack, gathering or police violence.
As a NYC resident perhaps you remember an incident at the West Side Republican club. Which tells you exactly who Republicans are . As we saw in Washington the police often sanction or turn a blind eye to right wing violence . The events at the West Side Republican Club have been amplified infinitely on the West Coast.
The police are seen as complicit with White Nationalists by Antifa who bare the battle scars. So when the repeated deaths of Black citizens happened this spring police were a natural target for Antifa . But do show us some documentation of antifa initiating a protest peaceful or violent outside the above situations.
But I don’t know if I can meet your standard–if you consider a police response to a riot or to an attack on police or police headquarters to be an inherent act of “police violence,” then I may not be able to give you an example that meets your standard.
Diane . . . right-wing against antifa? (whoever THAT is). But I’m with you from a past note . . . I am also anti-fascist, but apparently that doesn’t mean what THEY (right-wing groups) mean by it. CBK
I have been thinking of joining the Anti-Fascist League but there is no recruitment station and no website. Would they accept an 82-year-old woman with bad knees? How do I find them?
FLERP! Perhaps the whole picture provides some clarity. Lucky they were only shooting fireworks on New Years .
” That’s where the police come in. As the far right has turned Portland into a battleground nearly a dozen times since 2017, local journalists have revealed how police affinity for the far right has enabled its violence.
Internal documents obtained by the Willamette Week, Portland Mercury, and The Guardian reveal that Portland police see the far right as “much more mainstream” than the left. Text messages between a police lieutenant and Patriot Prayer leader Joey Gibson, who’s been hit with felony riot charges, show that the police fed him real-time information about the movements of antifa during street skirmishes, and gave him advice on how his most notorious brawler, Tusitala “Tiny” Toese, could avoid being arrested on two separate occasions. In June 2017, when The Intercept asked the police about Toese, a spokesperson claimed that they didn’t know who he was and said their real concern was about the actions of antifascist counterprotesters.
There’s more. Portland police launched a criminal investigation against an activist based on material provided by Gibson. And during an extremist rally on August 4, 2018, police discovered Patriot Prayer members with loaded guns on a garage rooftop directly overlooking the protest. The police let them go and didn’t inform anyone for two months, including Mayor Ted Wheeler, who serves as police commissioner. In the Portland metro area, there are cops who are Islamophobes, an Immigration and Customs Enforcement private prison that employed a Proud Boy, and a sheriff’s deputy affiliated with the Proud Boys as well. All of which fits a national pattern of white supremacists infiltrating law enforcement…..
“There’s fear inside of the mayor’s office [that] if they pushed on the police, there would be a police slowdown or strike,” the source said. “Within the police department, there are institutional biases toward Patriot Prayer and white supremacy.”
FLERP! I already have been suspended on Facebook today for violating community standards. It relieves my Trump Derangement Syndrome. Out of deference to Diane I will keep it civil.
FLERP!, you’ve got me on some issues and I acknowledge I was misinformed about some things, should not have done that and I apologize for it, but my basic premise stands. I was wrong to assume anything the Examiner posts, that they have standards of integrity. My bad. Since they referenced the Mayor’s twitter address, I assumed (there I go again!) that the video came from there. When I checked it, there was nothing to be found. Since the thread ended in July 2020, I associated (assumed?) his remarks with the well-known protesters in response to the Floyd murder that was escalated unnecessarily by the Idiot.
The videos you posted show a local disturbance and, as tragic as it may be, trying to build a false equivalence of both sides as compared to the events of and preceding January 6 is wrong. Trivializing one event by elevating another is a tried tactic of fascists and reactionaries. Not saying you are one of them (at all!), but you certainly puppeted their intent and drew us all in. I stand by that. Will try not to assume (there I go again!) in the future.
But if anyone wants to assert this false equivalence, there are other platforms out there where you can do so.
Hilarious, Diane. But I, for one, would run like a rabbit if I saw the formidable Diane Ravitch coming for me!
And sign me up, too!!! LOL. I will be happy to stand with you in the tradition of the Allied Powers in World War II carrying out anti-fascist actions like the Normandy landings on D-Day!
And as Diane has pointed out on another thread, obviously, Trump himself didn’t think that these people were Antifa. Otherwise, he would not have told them that he loved them, called them “Patriots,” directed them to march on the Capitol, and so on.
Calling this an Antifa false flag operation is just par-for-the-Trump-course derangement.
Lots of squawking by Trump enablers today (and by Donnie Jr) about “censorship” of Trump and his supporters by Facebook, Twitter, and Amazon–violation of their free speech rights.
Let’s be clear about this. There are limits to freedom of speech. You cannot advocate the violent overthrow of the US government. You cannot call for physical harm to be done to another person. You cannot yell fire in a crowded theatre. You cannot incite a mob to break into a government building, threaten government officials, and kill people. Such actions are NOT protected speech under US law.
An individual can also be charged with a crime and threatened with decades in prison for violating terms of use agreements, as was done to internet pioneer Aaron Swartz.
These private companies can pretty much do whatever they please. They e is largely outside our laws and are largely untouchable by our government.
Is Trump going to pardon domestic terrorists in the death of the Capitol police officer?
Will he be pardoning the oxycontin companies, assuming federal charges have been filed?
Corporations are people according tho right wing SCOTUS judges.
According to the debated story, on Christmas of 1170, King Henry II of England made the infamous statement, “Will no one rid me of this meddlesome [or turbulent) priest?” In response, four knights confronted Thomas Becket, Archbishop of Canterbury, in Canterbury Cathedral and slew him.
Unlike King-in-His-Own-Imagination Jabba the Trump, Henry accepted responsibility for inciting the murder, and in atonement, he had himself whipped by the monks of Canterbury in front of Becket’s tomb.
Not so King Donald the Wurst. When Trump is called out for one of his extreme misdeeds (these are Legion), he ALWAYS denies and then doubles down.
The following poem compares Donald, aka Ethelorange the Unready, to yet another English monarch:
The Seven Wives of King Donald the Wurst
Six wives had he, the Eighth King Henry.
Trump had but three, we’re told, but when he
was twixt and between those he made a great show of
perhaps he swallowed some four we don’t know of.
For as you most certainly know or have guessed
King Donald Doolittle must always Be Best.
Rudy says to a crowd, “let’s have trial by combat”
Ya, let’s see a BLM leader say that to a group and not get charged.
The justice department would be careless and to let that one go unchallenged.
In 2001, Donald Trump changed his party affiliation to Democratic. In 2009, he changed it to Republican. In 2011, he changed it to Independent. In 2012, he changed it back to Republican. Between 1989 and 2015, he made $694,750 in contributions to Democratic candidates, including Charlie Rangel, Chuck Schumer, Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, John Kerry, Anthony Weiner, and Joe Biden. His largest contributions to any Republican running at the federal level was $10,600 to John McCain. Prior to 2011, he gave more to Democrats than he did to Republicans, and he never gave much, given his net worth. He’s is whatever the exact opposite of a generous spirit is.
Trump, of course, is a racist and a con man. The man who took out a full-page ad in the New York Times calling for the execution of the Central Park 5, who were proved to be innocent, was horrified at the election of Barack Obama and became the leading proponent of the utterly unfounded birtherism conspiracy theory about Barack. Having so committed himself on that extreme side of the aisle, this serial grifter with no actual principles or beliefs except his love of self, lust for money by any criminal means, hatred of perceived enemies, racism, sexism, and utter contempt for anyone not rich, saw an opportunity to feed his need for adulation when Bannon, Sessions, and Miller approached him to run for President and carry their white supremacist agenda forward.
So, he promptly threw over his previously expressed views—support for women’s right to choose, an opposition to guns and hunting—and made himself over as an UberRepublican Nationalist (with lots of coaching). In a different world, he could have ended up running as a Democrat, for he has no actual values. In private, he ridicules the folks who support them, expressing, often, his contempt for Evangelical Christians, for example. And because he has no editor, no filter, his private contempt sometimes spills over in public, as when he makes nasty comments about the venues he is speaking at, tells his mostly poor, working class audiences that he likes rich people, says that he really likes uneducated people, says that the yokels in his base would vote for him if he committed murder in broad daylight, or passes a tax cut and then goes to Mar-a-Lago and tells his rich pals at dinner that he just gave them a big Christmas present. So, not a Christian. Not an actual populist champion of the working class.
And the man who evaded the draft, called our fallen soldiers “loser,s” ridiculed John McCain for being captured and held prisoner, sold out to Putin, and incited insurrection against the government of the United States is no American patriot. Far from it.
Trump has one religion and one political affiliation, both of which are Donald Trump (though he also worships Mammon).
Because he cares only about himself, he demands absolute loyalty (loyalty oaths!!!) but has NONE in return. Example: has there ever been a more abjectly kow-towing, toadying sycophant than Mike Pence has been to the Orange Idiot? But look how Trump repays such groveling. Trump loves the groveling but has contempt for the groveler.
Trump’s a completely unprincipled man and capable of ANYTHING, such as traitorously abandoning our allies the Kurds, the Ukrainians at war with Russia, and the freaking Europeans, for heaven’s sake, and fomenting insurrection not once but over and over and over and over again (Don’t let them take our beautiful monuments! BLM is Antifa! Liberate Michigan! Stop the Steal! Fight! You will never take back the country with weakness!). He is utterly amoral. But, ofc, we knew that a long, long time ago:
“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”
“If Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her dating her.”
“I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ‘em by the p****y.”
He is a vile, ignorant, lazy, criminal, treasonous, utterly amoral and unprincipled con man and creep driven solely by greed, vindictiveness, and a need for continual praise.
He hasn’t the moral compass of parasitic wasp larvae.
Sorry. So many typos in that post. Here, a corrected version:
In 2001, Donald Trump changed his party affiliation to Democratic. In 2009, he changed it to Republican. In 2011, he changed it to Independent. In 2012, he changed it back to Republican. Between 1989 and 2015, he made $694,750 in contributions to Democratic candidates, including Charlie Rangel, Chuck Schumer, Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, John Kerry, Anthony Weiner, and Joe Biden. His largest contributions to any Republican running at the federal level were $10,600 to John McCain. Prior to 2011, he gave more to Democrats than he did to Republicans, and he never gave much, given his net worth. He is whatever the exact opposite of a generous spirit is.
Trump, of course, is a racist and a con man. The man (using the term loosely) who took out a full-page ad in the New York Times calling for the execution of the Central Park 5, who were proved to be innocent, was horrified at the election of Barack Obama and became the leading proponent of the utterly unfounded birtherism conspiracy theory about this president. Having so committed himself on that extreme side of the aisle, this serial grifter with no actual principles or beliefs except his love of self, lust for money by any criminal means, hatred of perceived enemies, racism, sexism, and utter contempt for anyone not rich, saw an opportunity to feed his need for adulation when Bannon, Sessions, and Miller approached him to run for President and carry their white supremacist agenda forward.
So, he promptly threw over his previously often expressed views—support for women’s right to choose, an opposition to guns and hunting—and made himself over as an UberRepublican Nationalist (with lots of coaching). In a different world, he could have ended up running as a Democrat, for he has no actual values. In private, he ridicules the folks who support them, expressing, often, his contempt for Evangelical Christians, for example. And because he has no editor, no filter, his private contempt sometimes spills over in public, as when he makes nasty comments about the venues he is speaking at (Erie, Dalton), tells his mostly poor, working class audiences that he likes rich people, says that he really likes uneducated people (because they vote for him), says that the yokels in his base would vote for him if he committed murder in broad daylight, and passes a tax cut and then goes to Mar-a-Lago and tells his rich pals at dinner that he just gave them a big Christmas present. So, not a Christian. Not an actual populist champion of the working class.
And the man who evaded the draft, called our fallen soldiers “losers,” ridiculed John McCain for being captured and held prisoner, sold out to Putin, and incited insurrection against the government of the United States is no American patriot. Far from it. He traffics in sedition and treason and has done so throughout his term in office.
Trump has one religion and one political affiliation, both of which are Donald Trump (though he also worships Mammon).
Because he cares only about himself, he demands absolute loyalty (loyalty oaths!!!) but has NONE in return. Example: has there ever been a more abjectly kow-towing, toadying sycophant than Mike Pence has been to the Orange Idiot? But look how Trump repays such groveling. Trump loves the groveling but has contempt for the groveler (most of us share this second trait).
Trump’s a completely unprincipled man and capable of ANYTHING, such as traitorously cozying up to dictators; abandoning our allies the Kurds, the Ukrainians at war with Russia, and the freaking Europeans, for heaven’s sake; and fomenting insurrection not once but over and over and over and over again (Don’t let them take our beautiful monuments! BLM is Antifa! Liberate Michigan! Stop the Steal! Fight! You will never take back the country with weakness!). He is utterly amoral. But, ofc, we knew that a long, long time ago:
“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”
“If Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her dating her.”
“I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ‘em by the p****y.”
He is a vile, ignorant, lazy, criminal, treasonous, utterly amoral and unprincipled con man and creep driven solely by greed, vindictiveness, and a need for continual praise.
Ofc, there is a primitivist element on the fringe right wing. A lot of these morons fancy themselves followers of Norse religion. This particular idiot has Thor’s hammer tattooed on his belly.
But ofc, as when these people talk about “Socialism,” they haven’t a clue what they are talking about. Their knowledge of indigenous and ancient religion is probably at the level of Donald Trump’s knowledge of medicine, history, technology, and just about everything else.
Diane Shocker. CBK
LOL
Better late than never, I guess. Why wasn’t he arrested at the scene of the crime, he stood out like a sore thumb, a sore throbbing, bleeding cancerous, green-black thumb.
You just can’t make this stuff up! “A Trump supporter who became known as the ‘QAnon shaman’ after being pictured during riots at the US Capitol is reportedly a “failed actor” and conspiracy theorist described by his mother’s neighbours as “bizarre.”
Mr. Chansley wanders his mother’s neighborhood in his buffalo horned outfit that screams, “Hey, look at me.” How sad! https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/capitol-riot-jacob-angeli-chansley-qanon-trump-b1785089.html
QAnon is big business. Capitalism at work aided by the Internet, You Tube, Etsy, and Amazon.
https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/qanon-monetization?rebelltitem=3#rebelltitem3
Thanks, Laura.
Here’s another one:
A Game Designer’s Analysis Of QAnon
Playing with reality:
View at Medium.com
More about QAnon
https://qz.com/1954265/the-attack-on-the-us-capitol-shows-the-real-danger-of-qanon/
QAnon and the storm of the US Capitol: The offline effect of online conspiracy theories
Marc-André ArgentinoJanuary 7, 2021
Antifa exists almost entirely in the fevered imaginations of Trumpling crazies. The actual Antifa, which isn’t even an organization, consists of a few white young men who like to dress up like Neo in the Matrix and cosplay and pretend to be scary during otherwise peaceful protests asking for an end to systemic racism.
People who’ve been living with this stuff daily in Portland and other cities would disagree that Antifa is imaginary. This is Ted Wheeler, hardly a right-wing paranoiac.
FLERP, ever since the death of George Floyd, Fox News, Trump, and all the Trumplings have alternated between calling all the protestors Antifa, Socialists, and Terrorists. Obviously, this is a lie, and it’s a lie that has lead to the violent deaths of people peacefully calling for reforms.
Not all (or even many) protestors are “Antifa.” I’m just saying that “Antifa” (as well as the more general category of aggressive anarchist activism made famous in the northwest, no matter what it’s called) is a thing that definitely exists. It’s not imaginary.
Not disagreeing, but what specifically are you thinking of when you mention violent deaths of peaceful protesters?
James Scurlock, a Black Lives Matter protester shot and killed by a white bar bar owner.
Summer Taylor, Robert Forbes, and Barry Perkins–all run over andkilled with vehicles by pro-Trump drivers. the last with the FedEx truck.
And then there are all the people shot in the eyes or head with tear gas canisters or rubber bullets.
Many hundreds of thousands of people participated in BLM protests around the country. These were almost all peaceful. Much of the violence attributed to the left was done by people who were not protestors but looters or folks who just enjoy anarchy and mayhem.
I think that Flerp’s comments above show that he is not making a false equivalency. He knows that the BLM protests were largely peaceful and that Antifa is a tiny group of people. He and I are simply arguing over how tiny.
Antifa: three white 20-year-old boys in Portland, who like to dress up like Neo in the Matrix and cosplay, who gave Trump and his Trumplings a bogeyman to blow up into a vast terrorist organization in yet another BIG LIE like the one about George Soros’s supposed “caravans”
FLERP! is making a false equivalency tantamount to those who normalized Trump as being no different than the democrats.
He was reacting to a small number (100?) of (in the Mayor’s own words) “largely white, young and some middle-age men” who “destroy the livelihood of others who are struggling to get by?”
And given that these people also meet the profile of the alt right, there should be names and photos of these “antifa” rioters.
This is from an article about an ORGANIZED group of right wing troublemakers:
“Joey Gibson, organizer of the far-right group Patriot Prayer, celebrated a group of mayors who planned to reopen their city economies in direct violation of state restrictions.
“This is the kind of leadership our country needs,” said Gibson, whose group has attracted white supremacists and engaged in violence at other demonstrations.
Incoming Clackamas County Chair Tootie Smith compared state health leaders to “the Gestapo” while speaking in front of the Capitol and beneath a banner advertising “Oregon Women for Trump.”
The protesters marched to Mahonia Hall, the governor’s official residence in Salem. Some then returned to the Capitol, where their interactions with police turned increasingly tense. The shouts and chants from the crowd shifted from calls to arrest Gov. Kate Brown to promises to no longer “back the blue” after protesters used what Salem police described as “chemical munitions” against law enforcement, and officers used pepper balls to hold back the crowd. Salem police declared the gathering an unlawful assembly and made numerous arrests.
Last month, far-right demonstrators who protested COVID-19 restrictions, the presidential election results and Brown attempted to break into the Capitol during the Legislature’s one-day special session.”
False equivalency, indeed. Unorganized “antifa” whose associations are not clear who used the peaceful BLM protests to cause havoc, versus generously funded right wing protesters whose main goal is not peacefully protesting but acting out violently and getting others to join them in hurting the people who they hate (anyone who doesn’t worship Trump).
No need to type so many words, I’m just addressing the narrow point that Antifa is imaginary. Not making any equivalency arguments, false or otherwise.
QAnon is larger and more powerful than Antifa. The latter may be a few hundred people. QAnon now has two members in Congress, and Trump loves them.
I’m going to try to bow out of the thread (with apologies for disrupting it), because I really don’t want to get into a “who’s worse” framing of this, or any discussion that would require me to suggest that what happened at the Capitol was not that big a deal.
Speaking of Oregon, Rep. Mike Nearman and his wife- quite the pair of right wingers.
FLERP! says: “I’m just addressing the narrow point that Antifa is imaginary.”
You mischaracterized something that Bob Shepherd said into “Antifa is imaginary” and then addressed that “narrow point” that no one made.
Sorry, I disagree with your characterization of that.
^^^FLERP!, To be fair, I wrote my first reply – which you condescendingly denigrated as “too many words” – after reading your first comment, and while I composed my “too many words” reply, you replied to Bob Shepherd’s response to you with a better clarification.
As someone who too often writes “too many words”, I do so because I believe there is little point to writing short contradictory comments with links to the same far right publications that hyped the lies of the Trump administration as unexplained “evidence” of whatever point you are making. You could have begun an interesting discussion about antifa instead of posting something that was (accidentally? intentionally?) provocative to try to discredit the important observation that Bob was making on the grounds of some “narrow point”.
Sorry, I don’t have much time these days for long engagements, and I type everything on my phone. So I tend to get in and out.
Offhand, I remember 1999’s ‘battle in Seattle at the WTO. Numerous violent ‘may day’ demonstrations in Portland and Seattle. Armed people in the capitol in Michigan, Trump inciting violence at his 2016 rallies, Rand Paul being chased in the streets. Without zero tolerance and stiff penalties, it will escalate on both sides.
Are the Michigan gun toters in prison? How about the people who chased Paul?
Oh ya, just don’t tamper with a smoke detector in an airplane bathroom. That is a real federal crime which will be prosecuted.
So much to unpack here, I’ll try to keep it brief. NYCPSP, what is being attempted here, very poorly, is called grasping at straw men.
The tweet that is referenced here speaks volumes. First, it’s from the Washington Examiner, a right wing rag funded by Philip Anschutz, an ultra right wing billionaire, Koch brothers wannabe who actually foments the activities of right-wing paranoiacs. It is handed out for free in DC and does not need advertising revenue. It was created because the looney tunes Washington Times never emerged as the right wing response to the Post as right wingers had hoped it would be. So instead, set up boxes around the city and pay folks to stand outside of downtown Metro stops to hand it out to rush hour commuters. It’s a joke.
Second, context. The date of this tweet is Jan 2, 2021. The video cited is from early June 2020. It is a response to the riots that broke out in Portland following the murder of George Floyd and the move of the Idiot to send federal forces into the city to escalate the situation and provoke protesters. This tweet tries to create a “both sides” scenario that just does not exist.
Third, and this is a point cannot be made enough, what little “organized” antifa activities that actually do exist are in the northwest. The are not aggressors, they are defenders. They come out to defend their cities from the activities of fascists. They do not terrorize for in order to delegitimize governing entities.
This is a very sloppy citation that doesn’t stand up in the court of reasonable scrutiny.
Hi, Greg.
The tweet is a video of Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler. Yes, it was highlighted by the Washington Examiner. But the video is what it is. There’s a longer Facebook video if you’re interested (you may not be).
The tweet isn’t “citing a video from early June 2020” It’s showing a video of Ted Wheeler addressing the city on January 1, 2021, after the latest episodes of violence in Portland on New Year’s Eve. I don’t know what you’re talking about with June 2020.
If you think Ted Wheeler is decrying months of actions by people “defending their cities,” then I don’t know what to tell you. That’s not what he’s decrying. He’s decrying night after night of vandalism of local businesses and attacks on government buildings.
I am not suggesting that what happened at the Capitol is simply the flip side of the “Antifa coin.” I don’t really have words for what happened at the Capitol. I’m just saying that notion that Antifa is an invention of the right-wing, or “just an idea,” is not true.
My numbered formatting on this disappeared, but I think the gist is clear. Should have been a 1, a 2, a 3, and then an unnumbered final paragraph.
Lastly, “People who’ve been living with this stuff daily in Portland and other cities” is just plain BS.
FLERP!
Living with what stuff! So let me see ! Are you asserting that Antifa has ever had a demonstration, confrontation or action in the absence of either a White Nationalist attack, gathering or police violence.
As a NYC resident perhaps you remember an incident at the West Side Republican club. Which tells you exactly who Republicans are . As we saw in Washington the police often sanction or turn a blind eye to right wing violence . The events at the West Side Republican Club have been amplified infinitely on the West Coast.
The police are seen as complicit with White Nationalists by Antifa who bare the battle scars. So when the repeated deaths of Black citizens happened this spring police were a natural target for Antifa . But do show us some documentation of antifa initiating a protest peaceful or violent outside the above situations.
Here’s a snippet from New Year’s Eve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtR7VVpqI6w
But I don’t know if I can meet your standard–if you consider a police response to a riot or to an attack on police or police headquarters to be an inherent act of “police violence,” then I may not be able to give you an example that meets your standard.
bear the scars .
FLERP Whoever these violators are, it’s the extremes from either side that are capturing the headlines and so destroying any hope of “solvation.” CBK
On one extreme is QAnon and rightwing extremists. Who are on the”other” extreme?
Diane . . . right-wing against antifa? (whoever THAT is). But I’m with you from a past note . . . I am also anti-fascist, but apparently that doesn’t mean what THEY (right-wing groups) mean by it. CBK
I have been thinking of joining the Anti-Fascist League but there is no recruitment station and no website. Would they accept an 82-year-old woman with bad knees? How do I find them?
Diane HA! I have no idea! But if you find out, do let me know. CBK (Ha!)
Half the stuff I write today is going into moderation. LOL.
Stop referring to James Polk
Haaaa!
FLERP! Perhaps the whole picture provides some clarity. Lucky they were only shooting fireworks on New Years .
” That’s where the police come in. As the far right has turned Portland into a battleground nearly a dozen times since 2017, local journalists have revealed how police affinity for the far right has enabled its violence.
Internal documents obtained by the Willamette Week, Portland Mercury, and The Guardian reveal that Portland police see the far right as “much more mainstream” than the left. Text messages between a police lieutenant and Patriot Prayer leader Joey Gibson, who’s been hit with felony riot charges, show that the police fed him real-time information about the movements of antifa during street skirmishes, and gave him advice on how his most notorious brawler, Tusitala “Tiny” Toese, could avoid being arrested on two separate occasions. In June 2017, when The Intercept asked the police about Toese, a spokesperson claimed that they didn’t know who he was and said their real concern was about the actions of antifascist counterprotesters.
There’s more. Portland police launched a criminal investigation against an activist based on material provided by Gibson. And during an extremist rally on August 4, 2018, police discovered Patriot Prayer members with loaded guns on a garage rooftop directly overlooking the protest. The police let them go and didn’t inform anyone for two months, including Mayor Ted Wheeler, who serves as police commissioner. In the Portland metro area, there are cops who are Islamophobes, an Immigration and Customs Enforcement private prison that employed a Proud Boy, and a sheriff’s deputy affiliated with the Proud Boys as well. All of which fits a national pattern of white supremacists infiltrating law enforcement…..
“There’s fear inside of the mayor’s office [that] if they pushed on the police, there would be a police slowdown or strike,” the source said. “Within the police department, there are institutional biases toward Patriot Prayer and white supremacy.”
https://theintercept.com/2019/08/16/portland-far-right-rally/
I believe we saw a bit of this on Wednesday.
FLERP! I already have been suspended on Facebook today for violating community standards. It relieves my Trump Derangement Syndrome. Out of deference to Diane I will keep it civil.
https://gothamist.com/news/nypd-accused-of-incredibly-deferential-treatment-of-proud-boys-following-beatings-caught-on-video
And of course here are some of NYC’s finest at BLM protests probably about 50 videos .
When Human Rights Watch has to issue a report on the NYPD “Huston we have a problem”
So please don’t tell me about Antifa in Portland and hostility to police .
There is a systemic problem in Americas Police Departments
CNN is airing a one hour documentary at 10 pm EST.
I expect it will be great.
FLERP!, you’ve got me on some issues and I acknowledge I was misinformed about some things, should not have done that and I apologize for it, but my basic premise stands. I was wrong to assume anything the Examiner posts, that they have standards of integrity. My bad. Since they referenced the Mayor’s twitter address, I assumed (there I go again!) that the video came from there. When I checked it, there was nothing to be found. Since the thread ended in July 2020, I associated (assumed?) his remarks with the well-known protesters in response to the Floyd murder that was escalated unnecessarily by the Idiot.
The videos you posted show a local disturbance and, as tragic as it may be, trying to build a false equivalence of both sides as compared to the events of and preceding January 6 is wrong. Trivializing one event by elevating another is a tried tactic of fascists and reactionaries. Not saying you are one of them (at all!), but you certainly puppeted their intent and drew us all in. I stand by that. Will try not to assume (there I go again!) in the future.
But if anyone wants to assert this false equivalence, there are other platforms out there where you can do so.
Hilarious, Diane. But I, for one, would run like a rabbit if I saw the formidable Diane Ravitch coming for me!
And sign me up, too!!! LOL. I will be happy to stand with you in the tradition of the Allied Powers in World War II carrying out anti-fascist actions like the Normandy landings on D-Day!
And as Diane has pointed out on another thread, obviously, Trump himself didn’t think that these people were Antifa. Otherwise, he would not have told them that he loved them, called them “Patriots,” directed them to march on the Capitol, and so on.
Calling this an Antifa false flag operation is just par-for-the-Trump-course derangement.
Lots of squawking by Trump enablers today (and by Donnie Jr) about “censorship” of Trump and his supporters by Facebook, Twitter, and Amazon–violation of their free speech rights.
Let’s be clear about this. There are limits to freedom of speech. You cannot advocate the violent overthrow of the US government. You cannot call for physical harm to be done to another person. You cannot yell fire in a crowded theatre. You cannot incite a mob to break into a government building, threaten government officials, and kill people. Such actions are NOT protected speech under US law.
Private companies also have the right to decide how, where and by whom their products may be used. These are privately owned platforms.
An individual can also be charged with a crime and threatened with decades in prison for violating terms of use agreements, as was done to internet pioneer Aaron Swartz.
These private companies can pretty much do whatever they please. They e is largely outside our laws and are largely untouchable by our government.
Twitter, Facebook and Google are monopolies by any reasonable definition of the word.
Agreed, SomeDAM. Antitrust law in the United States is a bad joke.
AMEN, Bob.
And you can’t yell “FIRE” in a movie theater.
But you can yell ” Fired” on a reality TV show
And in Congress
Trump is reported to be working with his lawyers Rudy Giuliani and Alan Dershowitz on an impeachment defense. It will be based on claims of Freedom of Speech and the potential “for serious damage to the Constitution.” https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-wants-giuliani-and-dershowitz-to-defend-him-impeachment-trial-2021-1
Ghouliani, Sleazowitz–
they make quite the pair.
Integrity and decency
are found in them nowhere.
–“So, let’s have trial by combat.” Rudolph the Brown-Nosed Ghoulianai
Five days after this event, and Ghouliani still hasn’t been disbarred.
NO ANTIFA AT RIOT. GOP just use Antifa for someone to blame
Is Trump going to pardon domestic terrorists in the death of the Capitol police officer?
Will he be pardoning the oxycontin companies, assuming federal charges have been filed?
Corporations are people according tho right wing SCOTUS judges.
If the guy with the horns is the leader , they should probably rename it Qmoron
Or maybe Qhornon
Yesterday, Buzzfeed described the acts of terrorism from the perspective of a black Capitol police officer.
ohwhatasurprise🙄
Letting trespassers in the capitol is an insult to the public good. Just like closing 50 public schools in Chicago, or giving up a police station. https://crosscut.com/2020/06/confusion-anger-seattle-police-dept-after-east-precinct-exit
Antifa has been a term used to describe or associate with anti fascist resistance around the globe going on 80-90 years. Plain and simple.
I’m going to join Diane Ravitch’s Abraham Lincoln/Jane Addams Brigade! LOL!
I googled “how do you join Antifa” and there was no information
See her note, above.
LOL, Diane. Exactly.
According to the debated story, on Christmas of 1170, King Henry II of England made the infamous statement, “Will no one rid me of this meddlesome [or turbulent) priest?” In response, four knights confronted Thomas Becket, Archbishop of Canterbury, in Canterbury Cathedral and slew him.
Unlike King-in-His-Own-Imagination Jabba the Trump, Henry accepted responsibility for inciting the murder, and in atonement, he had himself whipped by the monks of Canterbury in front of Becket’s tomb.
Not so King Donald the Wurst. When Trump is called out for one of his extreme misdeeds (these are Legion), he ALWAYS denies and then doubles down.
The following poem compares Donald, aka Ethelorange the Unready, to yet another English monarch:
The Seven Wives of King Donald the Wurst
Six wives had he, the Eighth King Henry.
Trump had but three, we’re told, but when he
was twixt and between those he made a great show of
perhaps he swallowed some four we don’t know of.
For as you most certainly know or have guessed
King Donald Doolittle must always Be Best.
https://bobshepherdonline.wordpress.com/2019/12/13/the-six-wives-of-king-donald-the-worst/
NB: A “wurst” is a sausage
Rudy says to a crowd, “let’s have trial by combat”
Ya, let’s see a BLM leader say that to a group and not get charged.
The justice department would be careless and to let that one go unchallenged.
Exactly
That would be his second incitement to riot.
In 2001, Donald Trump changed his party affiliation to Democratic. In 2009, he changed it to Republican. In 2011, he changed it to Independent. In 2012, he changed it back to Republican. Between 1989 and 2015, he made $694,750 in contributions to Democratic candidates, including Charlie Rangel, Chuck Schumer, Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, John Kerry, Anthony Weiner, and Joe Biden. His largest contributions to any Republican running at the federal level was $10,600 to John McCain. Prior to 2011, he gave more to Democrats than he did to Republicans, and he never gave much, given his net worth. He’s is whatever the exact opposite of a generous spirit is.
Trump, of course, is a racist and a con man. The man who took out a full-page ad in the New York Times calling for the execution of the Central Park 5, who were proved to be innocent, was horrified at the election of Barack Obama and became the leading proponent of the utterly unfounded birtherism conspiracy theory about Barack. Having so committed himself on that extreme side of the aisle, this serial grifter with no actual principles or beliefs except his love of self, lust for money by any criminal means, hatred of perceived enemies, racism, sexism, and utter contempt for anyone not rich, saw an opportunity to feed his need for adulation when Bannon, Sessions, and Miller approached him to run for President and carry their white supremacist agenda forward.
So, he promptly threw over his previously expressed views—support for women’s right to choose, an opposition to guns and hunting—and made himself over as an UberRepublican Nationalist (with lots of coaching). In a different world, he could have ended up running as a Democrat, for he has no actual values. In private, he ridicules the folks who support them, expressing, often, his contempt for Evangelical Christians, for example. And because he has no editor, no filter, his private contempt sometimes spills over in public, as when he makes nasty comments about the venues he is speaking at, tells his mostly poor, working class audiences that he likes rich people, says that he really likes uneducated people, says that the yokels in his base would vote for him if he committed murder in broad daylight, or passes a tax cut and then goes to Mar-a-Lago and tells his rich pals at dinner that he just gave them a big Christmas present. So, not a Christian. Not an actual populist champion of the working class.
And the man who evaded the draft, called our fallen soldiers “loser,s” ridiculed John McCain for being captured and held prisoner, sold out to Putin, and incited insurrection against the government of the United States is no American patriot. Far from it.
Trump has one religion and one political affiliation, both of which are Donald Trump (though he also worships Mammon).
Because he cares only about himself, he demands absolute loyalty (loyalty oaths!!!) but has NONE in return. Example: has there ever been a more abjectly kow-towing, toadying sycophant than Mike Pence has been to the Orange Idiot? But look how Trump repays such groveling. Trump loves the groveling but has contempt for the groveler.
Trump’s a completely unprincipled man and capable of ANYTHING, such as traitorously abandoning our allies the Kurds, the Ukrainians at war with Russia, and the freaking Europeans, for heaven’s sake, and fomenting insurrection not once but over and over and over and over again (Don’t let them take our beautiful monuments! BLM is Antifa! Liberate Michigan! Stop the Steal! Fight! You will never take back the country with weakness!). He is utterly amoral. But, ofc, we knew that a long, long time ago:
“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”
“If Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her dating her.”
“I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ‘em by the p****y.”
He is a vile, ignorant, lazy, criminal, treasonous, utterly amoral and unprincipled con man and creep driven solely by greed, vindictiveness, and a need for continual praise.
He hasn’t the moral compass of parasitic wasp larvae.
cx: His largest contributions to any Republican running at the federal level WERE $10,600 to John McCain
Sorry. So many typos in that post. Here, a corrected version:
In 2001, Donald Trump changed his party affiliation to Democratic. In 2009, he changed it to Republican. In 2011, he changed it to Independent. In 2012, he changed it back to Republican. Between 1989 and 2015, he made $694,750 in contributions to Democratic candidates, including Charlie Rangel, Chuck Schumer, Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, John Kerry, Anthony Weiner, and Joe Biden. His largest contributions to any Republican running at the federal level were $10,600 to John McCain. Prior to 2011, he gave more to Democrats than he did to Republicans, and he never gave much, given his net worth. He is whatever the exact opposite of a generous spirit is.
Trump, of course, is a racist and a con man. The man (using the term loosely) who took out a full-page ad in the New York Times calling for the execution of the Central Park 5, who were proved to be innocent, was horrified at the election of Barack Obama and became the leading proponent of the utterly unfounded birtherism conspiracy theory about this president. Having so committed himself on that extreme side of the aisle, this serial grifter with no actual principles or beliefs except his love of self, lust for money by any criminal means, hatred of perceived enemies, racism, sexism, and utter contempt for anyone not rich, saw an opportunity to feed his need for adulation when Bannon, Sessions, and Miller approached him to run for President and carry their white supremacist agenda forward.
So, he promptly threw over his previously often expressed views—support for women’s right to choose, an opposition to guns and hunting—and made himself over as an UberRepublican Nationalist (with lots of coaching). In a different world, he could have ended up running as a Democrat, for he has no actual values. In private, he ridicules the folks who support them, expressing, often, his contempt for Evangelical Christians, for example. And because he has no editor, no filter, his private contempt sometimes spills over in public, as when he makes nasty comments about the venues he is speaking at (Erie, Dalton), tells his mostly poor, working class audiences that he likes rich people, says that he really likes uneducated people (because they vote for him), says that the yokels in his base would vote for him if he committed murder in broad daylight, and passes a tax cut and then goes to Mar-a-Lago and tells his rich pals at dinner that he just gave them a big Christmas present. So, not a Christian. Not an actual populist champion of the working class.
And the man who evaded the draft, called our fallen soldiers “losers,” ridiculed John McCain for being captured and held prisoner, sold out to Putin, and incited insurrection against the government of the United States is no American patriot. Far from it. He traffics in sedition and treason and has done so throughout his term in office.
Trump has one religion and one political affiliation, both of which are Donald Trump (though he also worships Mammon).
Because he cares only about himself, he demands absolute loyalty (loyalty oaths!!!) but has NONE in return. Example: has there ever been a more abjectly kow-towing, toadying sycophant than Mike Pence has been to the Orange Idiot? But look how Trump repays such groveling. Trump loves the groveling but has contempt for the groveler (most of us share this second trait).
Trump’s a completely unprincipled man and capable of ANYTHING, such as traitorously cozying up to dictators; abandoning our allies the Kurds, the Ukrainians at war with Russia, and the freaking Europeans, for heaven’s sake; and fomenting insurrection not once but over and over and over and over again (Don’t let them take our beautiful monuments! BLM is Antifa! Liberate Michigan! Stop the Steal! Fight! You will never take back the country with weakness!). He is utterly amoral. But, ofc, we knew that a long, long time ago:
“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”
“If Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her dating her.”
“I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ‘em by the p****y.”
He is a vile, ignorant, lazy, criminal, treasonous, utterly amoral and unprincipled con man and creep driven solely by greed, vindictiveness, and a need for continual praise.
I made a few more changes. Final version is here: https://bobshepherdonline.wordpress.com/2021/01/11/a-question-of-character/
You mi**pelled “p****y”
One too many *’s
WordPre** need* and edit button
WordPre** needs a way
To grab ’em by the “p****y”
And change the words, Oy vey
When asterisks get me***y
*****!!!
…..“Q’Anon Shaman”…..
That’s right up there with “Icy Hot” and “Dodge Ram” ….
ROFLMAO! Perfectly said, Callisto!
Ofc, there is a primitivist element on the fringe right wing. A lot of these morons fancy themselves followers of Norse religion. This particular idiot has Thor’s hammer tattooed on his belly.
But ofc, as when these people talk about “Socialism,” they haven’t a clue what they are talking about. Their knowledge of indigenous and ancient religion is probably at the level of Donald Trump’s knowledge of medicine, history, technology, and just about everything else.
The Shaman is a sham
The Shaman is a sham
He’s really just a layman
His act is just a scam
And no use is a shamin’
Please don’t squeeze the Shaman
Please don’t squeeze the Shaman
He’s really very horny
Like roses in the garden
He’s very, very thorny
ROFLMAO!!! You outdid your self there, SomeDAM! That’s one amusing Muse you have!
Antlerfa
“Antifa” he ain’t
Antlerfa, and how
With plenty of paint
And horns of a cow
AGAIN! Sooooo funny!