Rick Hess conducts an “exit interview” with Betsy DeVos, which was published at Education Week. Rick is a fellow at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, which is funded in part by DeVos.
DeVos came to Washington to destroy public education, and she failed. She bitterly dismisses the “entrenched interests” and bureaucrats who frustrated her ambitions to turn billions of public dollars over to religious and private schools and to extinguish teachers’ unions altogether. During her confirmation, she was unable to answer direct questions about education policy, and she was ultimately confirmed only when Vice-President Pence cast a tie-breaking vote. This had never happened before. In poll after poll, DeVos was characterized as the most unpopular member of Trump’s Cabinet. She did her best to skewer the Department’s Office of Civil Rights, to abandon college students who were defrauded by for-profit colleges, to divert COVID funding to elite private schools. Fortunately, most of the changes–maybe all of them–will be reversed by the Biden administration. Here is a fun fact that DeVos doesn’t mention: She is right that the number of voucher programs has grown, but she fails to point out that fewer than 1% of American students use vouchers. Nor does she mention that most independent voucher studies find that students in voucher schools are worse off than their peers in public schools. When a 2017 evaluation of the voucher program in D.C. reported that the students in voucher schools actually lost ground, DeVos didn’t care. She said: “When school choice policies are fully implemented, there should not be differences in achievement among the various types of schools.” Nonetheless, in this exit interview, DeVos continues to promote voucher propaganda, and Hess doesn’t challenge her.
Here is an excerpt:
Rick: Back in 2017, your confirmation process was remarkably contentious. Looking back, what did you take from that and how did it affect your approach to the role?
Secretary DeVos: It confirmed my belief that entrenched interests were going to do their best to protect the status quo, their power, and their jobs no matter what. It gave me a clear-eyed look at the uphill battle I knew we would face as we pivoted the federal focus away from adults’ interests to what’s best for kids.
Rick: You came to your position as an outsider—how has that mattered?
DeVos: Like I’ve said before, I didn’t know all the things you “can’t do.” So I came in with fresh eyes and a laser focus on rethinking the way we approach all aspects of work at the department.
Rick: What surprised you most about the job?
DeVos: A couple of things. First, that the bureaucracy is even more bureaucratic than any of us could have ever imagined, and it takes longer to get anything done than I could have ever imagined. Second, seeing firsthand just how difficult it is for people in Washington to see beyond what is and imagine what could be. Third, and importantly, I am consistently inspired by what parents will do for their kids’ educations. I’ve met single mothers driving Uber in addition to holding two other jobs just so their children can learn in schools that work for them. I’ve met parents who didn’t wait for permission to home school their children nor did they wait for their schools to open this past spring, establishing their own learning pods and microschools so their children could continue learning. I suppose I’m not surprised by the ingenuity of America’s parents, but I am inspired by them and their students.
Rick: For you, what’s one anecdote that really captures what it’s like to be secretary of education?
DeVos: I remember talking with a group of young African American students in a school where they were benefiting from the Milwaukee voucher program and looking outside at a sea of middle-aged white protestors who apparently thought those students didn’t deserve that opportunity. I think that’s a pretty good microcosm of what my experience in office was like.
Rick: What was the most useful preparation you had to be secretary?
DeVos: I’ve dedicated more than 30 years of my life to fighting for students, starting in my community, then throughout Michigan and in states across the country. I know what parents want and need for their children’s educations because I am one and because I’ve fought alongside them to have the same choices and opportunities for their kids that I had for mine. People also forget this is ultimately a management job, not a teaching job. Among other things, you run one of the nation’s largest banks. Having actually led large organizations was very important preparation.
Rick: If you had to point to just one, what’s the single data point that really illuminates your thinking about American education?
DeVos: Half of lower-income 4th graders are below-basic readers, according to the most recent Nation’s Report Card. If the system is failing to teach the most basic of skills to the most vulnerable of students, how can anyone defend it? Worse yet, for the past quarter century, there has been no meaningful change in test scores, yet as taxpayers, we spend more and more for education each year. And by too many measures, these gaps are even widening. Perhaps the largest gap is between American students and their international peers. We’re not in the top 10—in anything. That’s not because our students aren’t capable; it’s because “the system” is culpable for failing them. And, if I could point to a couple more data points, there are currently millions of kids on charter school wait lists, and 3 out of 4 parents who say, if given the opportunity, they would choose a different school than their assigned one for their child. Parents are making clear what they think the solution is to the system’s failures.
Rick: What’s one thing that advocates and reformers should understand about federal education policy which they may not already?
DeVos: It needs your voices. Reformers rightly focus on the states, which are in control of education, but ignoring Washington comes with peril. Remember, a different president and secretary most certainly would have implemented the Every Student Succeeds Act in significantly more controlling ways.
Rick: What would you regard as your most significant accomplishment in office?
DeVos: Hands down, it’s changing the national conversation around what K-12 education can and should be. The concept of school choice is more popular across racial, ethnic, and political lines than ever before. I’m also proud of the team’s work on the historic Title IX rule which codified into law protections for all students.
Rick: And what would you say is your biggest regret?
DeVos: In four years, we set out to change the course set by the past 40 years of the department’s history. Though we’ve made remarkable progress, as long as there are students stuck in schools that do not meet their needs, the work is not yet done. I believe that all children have unlimited potential and promise, and so every single one of them deserves the opportunity to find their educational fit. I regret that we didn’t push harder and earlier in the term.
Rick: Throughout your tenure, your emphasis has been on expanding educational choice for students and families. How would you evaluate your record on this score?
DeVos: My team and I have worked very hard to advance education freedom—or school choice, as most know it. This idea, which President Trump rightly calls “the civil rights issue of our time,” is on the march across the country. Students in more states have more opportunities to pursue the education that’s right for them today than when I first took office. Consider the bold expansions in North Carolina, Florida, West Virginia, Tennessee, and even in Illinois. Right here in D.C., participation in the school choice program is now 50 percent higher than it was four years ago, and there is still massive unmet demand. We’ve changed the conversation at the federal level, too. Our proposal for Education Freedom Scholarships is the most ambitious in the nation’s history, and now there are more than 120 co-sponsors in Congress and more than 50 Senators who voted for Sen. McConnell’s COVID relief package who are helping us champion the idea.
Reblogged this on dean ramser.
DeVos is a political operative, as everyone in Michigan knows. A powerful, wealthy, well-connected political operative who has had great success installing her preferred ideology in Michigan but not much success in “education”.
She once bragged about buying the Michigan legislature.
I don’t really mind that she’s a political operative- her choice, it’s all legal, but that is what she is. “Education” happens to be the vehicle she chose to promote her political ideology- it could have been health care or foreign policy or anything else on the list.
What sticks out to me about the interview is what’s missing. Any work, effort or interest in PUBLIC schools is what’s missing from the interview. She offers nothing to public school students and families and she did nothing for them over four years. Just amazing that it is acceptable in ed reform circles. There isn’t even an effort to pretend to serve public school students- they’re simply omitted from the agenda.
“her preferred ideology”
That idiology* is of the xtian regressive reactionary strain that wishes to install an xtian caliphate in this country. And her and her ilk, being their sky-daddy god’s chosen ones as proven by all the wealth it has bestowed upon her, are to be the self-chosen leaders.
*Idiology (n.) Ideology based in falsehoods, absurdities, superstitions and mythologies. Ideology of idiots.
All these right wing libertarian robotic parrots read from the exact same script and use the same tired trite talking points: entrenched interests, status quo, bureaucracy is even more bureaucratic, school choice, charter school wait lists, education freedom, Education Freedom Scholarships, system is failing, etc., ad nauseam, blah, blah, de-blah. There are many more that one could add to this list which comes from her comments above from the interview. Ciao, Betsy, you can’t exit DC fast enough.
best description for the entire school reform endeavor: ad nauseam
She’s right too- the “ed reform movement” did have huge success promoting private school vouchers over the last four years.
The fact that they accomplished absolutely nothing for public schools or public school students shouldn’t hide that fact that they’ve had great success promoting, funding and marketing private schools.
Mission accomplished.
Still nothing of positive or practical value to public schools or public school students, though. Oh, well. Maybe next year.
DeVos is a right wing evangelical ideologue. She believes useless vouchers in unaccredited religious schools are better for young people than most public schools where socialist teachers backed by strong arm unions teach children to hate America. She is dead wrong, but nothing will change her mind. She still clings to the myth that thousands of students are languishing on wait lists for charter schools.
According to a recent poll from the National School Boards Actions Center, most parents oppose programs that divert funding from public education.
“The more than 50 million students currently in public schools and the generations of students to follow are the future. A poll by the National School Boards Action Center (NSBAC) found that nearly two-thirds of voters think funding for public schools should be increased. And, 73% of voters indicate that inadequate funding and resources for public education is a problem that needs to be addressed. 64% of voters are much less likely to vote for an elected official who supports taking away funds from public schools to give to private schools, including forty-seven percent who would be much less likely to do so.”
If anything DeVos’ campaign to dismantle public education has caused a backlash of support for public education. Her constant bashing of public education and diversion of funds to private entities made parents more determined to protect their community public schools. Nobody ever voted in favor of dismantling public education so it should never be considered a national policy. https://www.nsba.org/News/2020/state-of-the-union-statement
Exactly right. Her only beneficial accomplishments were fully unintended. I will say her disruption of ESSA regulations which were meant to make the law revert back to NCLB was actually a positive. But the biggest thing she did was expose the fact that there’s not hair’s breadth of difference between her policies and those of Democrats for Education Reform. This exposure had and continues to have immeasurable value for our cause. For that alone, she has been more helpful to us than Secretary Duncan.
“DeVos is a right wing evangelical idiologue*”
Small but important correction.
Idiologue (n.) Idiot who believes in idiologies. A true nutcase.
*see above for definition
The punctuation didn’t come out as I wanted. Correction:
The * is for “idiologies” not idiologue.
Milwaukee is near and dear to my heart so her quote about vouchers in Milwaukee especially irks me.
Did she visit the 10’s of thousands of students in the Milwaukee Public Schools? Does she care about them? Does she know what the struggles and challenges for families whose children would never be admitted to a private school on a voucher are? Did she have conversations with the amazingly qualified and dedicated teachers in that system to understand how she can support the students she is charge with supporting?
😦
“Milwaukee Public School system” and “charged”
I could vent my frustrations with DeVos and all the damage she and Trump have done to our public education system but that would only raise my blood pressure and not solve damn thing.
Right now I am in the mode of just forgetting that DeVos even exists. To me on 20 January 2020 she will become an non-entity, a non-person, not worthy of a piece of scrap paper to write her name.
It is time to clear my mind and soul of this vile person, along with her boss, turn the page of life and hopefully a brighter day for all associated with education in this county.
I join you in forgetting DeVos and believe that giving credibility to Rick Hess an exit interviewer is a mistake. It feeds his ego. He is a publicity hound. He is giving credibility to the wishes of a billionaire bigot and ideologue who will never stop trying to get government funding for private schools, or for-profit scams, and the rest. She is a danger to the public welfare.
Hess is also “a danger to the public welfare”.
The only downside is the chance she’ll shift her focus back to Mich Again.
That is NOT a positive thing for Michigan. The people of Michigan have enough problems without DeVos and family mucking up matters worse then they already are.
I worry that she is not going away. Her role model is Margaret Thatcher…who was Britain’s Secretary of Education equivalent before moving on to bigger things. If she’s anything like Arne Duncan — and I think she is in many ways — she’ll be spending her post-Secretaryship attempting to burnish her legacy.
With her billions, she now has a bigger platform to sell her snake oil.
Absolutely true, Diane. I’m hoping the wider base of her opposition will cause her continued activity to backfire.
Yes…. she was legitimized when she was handed the highest education position.
it reminds me of a book on my “to read” list….
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26720949-the-death-of-expertise.
She is a clear example of the ‘”Death of Expertise”.
She seems more the Gollum type.
Or in her case, Gallum
I enjoyed reading this interview. After four years of DeVos showing the U.S. the true, dilettante nature of those behind testing and privatization, this interview was the icing atop the underbaked brownie that is Betsy. I want to thank her for taking office and flailing. Thank her for allying with and then completely shutting up Democrats like Cory Booker on the subject of charter schools. Thank her for her lack of comprehension of governance in a democratic republic. Here’s an excerpt, interpreted:
Rick: What surprised you most about the job?
DeVos: A couple of things. First, that there is a Constitution. I wasn’t able to do whatever I wanted. None of us could have ever imagined that. Second, seeing firsthand just how difficult it is for people in Washington if they are caught talking to me. Third, and importantly, I am consistently inspired by what parents will do for their kids’ educations, even when I am refusing to lend them any assistance. I’ve met single mothers driving Uber in addition to holding two other jobs just so their children can go to schools that should be operated at the public’s expense for the public good. And they keep doing it, even while I throw marbles and banana peels in their paths.
“the underbaked brownie”
The problem there is that no cannabutter was used in making that brownie!
LeftCoastTeacher: In these waning minutes of 2020, I must bestow upon you the 2020 Best Phrase/Word Usage on Diane’s Blog Prize*
(IMO) for–#1–On an earlier post, “Education is wounded. Pressure must be applied.” #2–This whole last paragraph of dEVIL’s “answer” to Hess’ ? “What surprised you the most…job?”
Sheer genius. & I bet you attended public schools!
Well, actually, I am on CST, so it’s 11:18 PM in IL.
“for the past quarter century, there has been no meaningful change in test scores, yet as taxpayers, we spend more and more for education each year.”
19 of those 25 years wasted $$ on annual stdzd tests reqd by the DofEd (& related CCSS, test-prep at all matls), which added to taxpayers’ ed costs. Then of course there’s that little detail that today we have 51million kids in pubschs, vs 45million in 1995…
“Perhaps the largest gap is between American students and their international peers.” Sigh. No surprise that our outgoing Secy of Ed is unschooled on the nuances of PISA’s apples-to-pears comparison.
“there are currently millions of kids on charter school wait lists” I can guess the source of that “data point”
“Our proposal for Education Freedom Scholarships”… got zero traction in Congress, & will die a swift death 1/21/21.
So long Betsy, and thanks for all the dead fish
“for the past
quartercentury, there hasve been no meaningfulchange intest scores.Fixed
Oh, and here’s Betsy’s departing virtual address to the U.S. Department of Education staff — thousands of her soon-to-be ex-subordinates — exhorting those thousands to “resist” and to “be the resistance” to incoming President-Elect Biden and any and all changes that the Biden administration might try to implement:
(Uhhh … wasn’t Biden just elected by the U.S. people to make such changes? Isn’t that kinda how democracy’s supposed to work? Just askin’ …)
YAHOO NEWS:
“Let me leave you with this plea: Resist.
“Be the resistance against forces that will derail you from doing what’s right for students. In everything you do, please put students first — always,” she can be heard saying.
The rest of that is here:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/betsey-devos-tells-department-education-125658824.html
Serving as Secretary of Education was the first and only full-time job Betsy has ever held, having gone from college to being a billionaire’s housewife and mother, followed by years as an ideologue “activist.” You could always see this in how dismissive and unapologetically uncooperative in how she handles Senate and House Committee hearings on education. It’s was almost as if she had this permanent passive-aggressive smirk on her face, the face of someone who never has, and never will have to answer to anyone.
Hmmmm … so what’s really behind that smirk of Betsy?
Peter “CURMUDGUCATION” Greene really nailed it in spotlighting the theocratic underpinnings of Devos’ deranged mind:
http://curmudgucation.blogspot.com/2018/03/devos-in-this-world.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FORjvzd+%28CURMUDGUCATION%29
PETER GREENE:
“Any analysis of DeVos that doesn’t factor in her religious views, her brand of Midwestern fundamentalism, is a mistake.
“Looking at that smile, I was reminded of an old Christian admonition —
“Be in this world, but not of this world.”
“It’s a view that people of faith, people who have been elevated by a relationship with a personal Lord and Savior, do not actually belong in this dirty, debased world. The rules of this world cannot be their rules. To achieve Godly goals, they may have to use worldy tools, even pretend to go along with worldly rules, but this is stooping to achieve a higher purpose. God will even give His chosen tools (like earthly wealth and political power), but they must avoid being seduced by worldly things, including a desire for worldly acclaim and recognition. That means, among other things, that the Chosen don’t owe these earthly, debased, going-to-hell persons an explanation. You can be in the world with these people, and maybe feel sorry for them, but there is no need to connect with them— you are almost like two separate species, passing each other for a brief moment as you travel to two separate destinations, you to eternal glory in Heaven, and they to endless damnation in Hell.
“So you smile.
“You smile hard, because it shows that you’re still better than they are, and that you haven’t stooped to their level. You smile even as they say mean things about you, because if the people of this world mount powerful forces against you, it’s just further proof that you are right (and they are wrong). In fact, you are so right, and so sure of it, that real conversations with them aren’t necessary because what could you learn from people who are so low and earthly and wrong? But you go through the motions to show that you’re the bigger person, and because sometimes worldly tools must be used to achieve divine goals.
“You smile.
“Betsy DeVos’s smile is the smile of Dolores Umbrage or the Church Lady. It’s an angry, flinty smile, a smile that says,
“I am in this world, but I am not of it, and some day I will rise above it and leave you behind.”
“I know, I know. I am engaging in more armchair psychiatrist than people who just skip straight to, “She’s a dope.” But when I look at her, I see a face that I saw dozens of times on the United Methodist Youth Fellowship circuit. I always wondered how those folks would grow up, and in most cases life beat them into a humbler, kinder shape. Betsy DeVos looks to me like how they would have grown up if they had been bubbled inside enough wealth and privilege to convince them that they were right all along. There’s no humility there, and no kindness, though I would bet that DeVos thinks she has kind thoughts about the rest of us, and I suppose she does, in the same way that some folks have kind thoughts about scraggly stray cats. But not only is she not of this world, but she hasn’t been in it all that often.
“I don’t believe for a minute that DeVos is a dope. I think she’s worked very hard at packaging her core beliefs, knowing that in this world you can’t just say “Close all public schools, hand education over to religious schools, give everyone a voucher.”
“You can’t just say “There should be no collectives except the Church, and it should admit only those who deserve to be there.”
“You can’t just say, “Some people are supposed to be poor and miserable, because if you don’t properly follow God’s word, you’re supposed to be poor and miserable.”
“You can’t just say, “My wealth is a sign from God that I have been anointed to do His work.”
“You can’t just say, “Your opposition to me just proves that Satan is mobilizing against me in this world.” Your silence on all these matters is just a price of being in this world. But since you are not of this world, you won’t have to pay that price forever.
“If DeVos sometimes seems confused by questions asked by worldly interviewers and worldly Congressmen, it is in part because they are following a worldly script that she rejected back in her youth. If she seems confused, it may not be because she doesn’t get it, but because she still can’t quite understand why the rest of us don’t get it.
“Betsy DeVos is not a dope. I wish more people would see what she keeps putting right in front of our collective face. She has a vision of what education and government should look like, and if it seems that her vision is dangerous and damaging to the world, that does not matter to her, because this world is not her home.”
Oh Pulease. Let’s not be conned by these otherworldly pretensions.
The Plutocrat Gospel has nothing to with Laying Up Thy Treasures In Heaven.
It’s all about the cash value of ideology …
As I read that interview, I kept thinking of words that would describe Betsy DeVos but every insult meant demeaning creatures like pit vipers. scorpions, and Great White Shark.
I couldn’t bring myself to compare her to one of those dangerous creatures.
But I think I found the proper insult. Betsy DeVos is far worse than a dangerous virus like COVID-19 because we-the-people can wear masks and stay home as much as possible to avoid the virus, but we can’t do anything to avoid the damage caused by a viral plague known as Betsy DeVos and/or Donald Trump.
Or, how about the Trump-DeVos Zombie, flesh-eating Plague?
The Devostator is the sort of person who think she’s doing The £ord’$ Work©®™ selling the savages smallpox blankets because it helps them make peace with their fatally non-elect pre-destination sooner rather than later.
She makes some valid points, mainly that students have the potential to learn and succeed and if the school you’re assigned isnt a good fit, find one that is. But she went about it all wrong. Why? Because she doesn’t understand the workings of a public school. That was her fault. That was the mistake. Public schools need help and support. She spent 4 years tearing it further apart. She could have made great strides for ALL kids. Not just white and privileged children. She had no interest in seeing public schools succeed. What a shame.
What does it mean to say a school is “not the right fit”? Schools are complex institutions, not fruit in the produce aisle. “Choice” is a mechanism to shift public funds into private hands.
I hope this is the last we hear about DeVos, and she just disappears from the National scene along with her boss. This interview perfect summarizes the whole DeVos period. What an ancient relic of a soon to be bygone era she is,
From bygone to Biden