Is it just me, or is it the case that Trump’s switch from “would” to “wouldn’t” is a distinction without a difference? I’m speaking, of course, about his recent obsequious performance with Vladimir Putin.
In the midst of denying that Russia hacked into our presidential election, he said, with great profundity, “Why would Russia want to do that?”
He thought he hit a grand slam in Helsinki until he watched cable news on the flight back to D.C. some of his aides persuaded him that many people understood him to mean that Russia did not hack into our election, even though his own intelligence services were certain they did.
To make things right, Trump said he meant yo say “wouldn’t,” not “would.”
He misspoke.
He meant to say, “Why wouldn’t Russia want to do it?”
Unless I am very much mistaken, the new wording is even more damning than the original.
“Why would Russia want to do that?”
“Why wouldn’t Russia want to do that?”
Do you see a change of meaning, a reversal?
I don’t.

I definitely agree with you. He made it worse with his corrected version.
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What T***p said in Helsinki is: “I don’t see why it would be Russian meddling].” The next day, he lied and claimed he meant “wouldn’t,” not “would.” Were it true, “I don’t see why it wouldn’t be [Russian meddling]” states that he has no reason to believe the Russians didn’t meddle — i.e., a tepid assertion of Russian meddling. So there would indeed have been a reversal of meaning.
I would wager that in his thousands of tweets, hundreds of speeches, and other public statements, this double-negative construction is not to be found. Our president baldly and badly lied to us, as he does at least a dozen times each day.
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“Were it true, . . . . there would indeed have been a reversal of meaning.”
Thank God someone else has made this observation!
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President Dunderhead shoots himself in the foot as he speaks out of both sides of his two mouths. The man is a disgrace, an embarrassment, not to mention lethally dangerous to the republic, especially with the complicit GOP manipulating this useful idiot to enact the most regressive and right wing policies in decades.
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Here’s the main point for me: he and his minions (not the funny, cute yellow ones) have convinced themselves that if it were not for that one word, the rest of the historical train wreck of a “summit” and press conference went just fine and dandy. For argument’s sake, let’s give ’em that word. There are still dozens and dozens of other substantive reasons why he and his cult are a clear and present danger not just to this country, but to global stability and peace as well.
More basically, this man is very, very stupid. Just add knowing nothing about grammar to pile of evidence. Had he not been born into wealth, he would be the 400 pound loser living in a basement he so often mentions in his fantasies.
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“More basically, this man is very, very stupid.”
He has access to the best intelligence in the world but gets his news from Fox. Fox tells him repeatedly [his latest Helsinki thing is an exception], that he is the greatest most wonderful president ever. Why listen to government straight ‘propaganda’ intelligence when Fox is available? He isn’t smart enough to sit for professional intelligence briefings so what he does get is watered down and has pictures.
What did he say to Putin and does he even remember. I’m sure he told Putin how great a leader he is. At the very least he wants a Trump tower in Moscow. I’m also sure that Putin remembers everything that was said and most likely had it recorded.
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Maybe he is not stupid. Maybe he is ignorant. Maybe he never paid attention in history and civics classes. Maybe, in his private schools, those courses were not required. Maybe he is senile.
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You forget that that four hundred pound loser was posited as one who could have hacked the election. Sounds like that “loser” could outdo Trump upstairs.
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But the 400 pound loser doesn’t do anything upstairs. He’s always in the basement.
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I thought the 400-lb loser was a guy on his bed in New Jersey.
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Hm, you might be right. Not sure why I wanted that guy in the basement.
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Good point!
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You’re right – either way – would or wouldn’t – it’s bad.
But he got everyone talking about one word – – then got everyone talking about “others” involved – – then said he “laid into Putin” – – then said the fake news didn’t say he hit a homerun BUT – – WE DON”T KNOW WHAT THEY TALKED ABOUT!
THEN his boys released the Cohen tapes so we’re not talking about Russia – – and because it must be bad because they wanted to get out ahead of it to control the message – –
And then… wait for it… tweets about the NFL because his racist pals love that stuff and they coudn’t care less about Russia. THis week it will be back to gangs on Long Island and the wall.
GOP is complicit
History is watching
VOTE
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In his retraction he first said “I” instead of “it” — a slip even more telling.
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Here is a lesson on double negatives that offers a laugh at the utter ridiculous of this man.
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Obfuscation. Classic obfuscation.
Of course, the Russians used this strategy with their high tech bot attacks, clogging social media with distortion.
Whether Trump knows he does this or it just comes to him naturally like a second skin is anyone’s guess.
I happened to buy a neat little book (prior to the 2016 election) which shows how citizens can use obfuscation to our own advantage. i.e. Citizens who are not part of the wealthiest 5% of this country https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/obfuscation
It’s a symptom of the times we live in. And, a cause for even more obfuscation. Like recursion. (Point a camera at a mirror. Or, to use a more apt analogy, a Russian nesting doll.)
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THIS is gross incompetence:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/23/politics/trump-iran-intl/index.html
Calling a bluff or firmly laying down the law does not mean sounding like an idiotic maniac poised to commit an atrocity in response to the next Tweet. The US gov is now represented by an unhinged rage-Tweeter.
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Trump likes to threaten nuclear annihilation. He did it with North Korea and ended up best buddies with Kim. Maybe he will invite the leader of Iran to Mar-a-Lago to play golf next week.
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Trump believes that a war would…wait, wouldn’t…no…would make a great distraction from Mueller and his worries about payments to porn stars. It also would make him the greatest president in the world because he had the guts to take a hard line on Iran…not like spineless President Obama who negotiated a nuclear deal in 2015.
Trump loves to bully and threaten. It is very unfortunate that this blabbering idiot has so much power. He loves to see his name on the world stage and possibly a large amount of his Tweets are done just to see the world’s reactions. He has no idea of what he is toying with.
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It’s getting hard to distinguish which events are terrible and which are distractions.
Stormy Daniels. Michael Cohen. North Korea. The Playboy model. Iran. Threats of war. Grammar. Putin coming to the White House. The director of National Intelligence kept in the dark about what Trump agreed to in Helsinki.
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Yes, the upside is getting along with crazy bullies. The downside is we are all in the global mafia.
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You got the grammar wrong. It wasn’t “Russia would/wouldn’t do it.” First he said he didn’t see why it “would be” Russia. Then he said he meant to see he didn’t see why it “wouldn’t be” Russia. The difference is meaningful, which is why he’s trying to make that change. But he’s so obviously lying.
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FLERP, I live by grammar. I had 12 years of grammar (in my public school days, grammar, syntax, and spelling were very important). I don’t see the difference between “why would it be Russia?” and “why wouldn’t it be Russia?” If anything, the second version is more damning.
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Huh. If you don’t see the difference between a statement that implies there is no good reason to believe that Russia was involved in hacking and a statement that implies there is no good reason to believe that Russia was not involved in hacking, I don’t know what to tell you. The speaker of the first statement would not be inclined to believe that Russia was involved. The speaker of the second statement would be very much inclined to believe Russia was involved.
The second statement is more damning to Russia, but not to Trump’s patriotism.
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As Trump subsequently explained in his “wouldn’t” press conference, it could have been many others who hacked our election.
Why would they?
Why wouldn’t they?
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Yes, he immediately hedged and undercut his backtracking, in typical fashion.
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From the New York Times:
“Mr. Trump had just returned from Finland, where he sided against his own intelligence agencies’ conclusions about Russian interference in the 2016 election during a meeting with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia. “I have President Putin; he just said it’s not Russia,” Mr. Trump had said on Monday. “I don’t see any reason why it would be.”
“And by that, Mr. Trump said on Tuesday, more than 24 hours later, he meant the exact opposite. “The sentence should have been, ‘I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t be Russia,’” Mr. Trump said. “Sort of a double negative.””
The whole thing is a joke since he stood next to Putin and said in many other ways that “both sides” are responsible.
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Agree with Diane–it’s a distinction without a difference meant as a defensive utterance to silence the media storm. Storm of outrage continues but Trump still very popular in GOP base who are not outraged by his gaffes. Problem now is that GOP is solid behind Trump whose popularity generally has risen lately back to 40% approval, and he is a belligerent personality, always punching, consolidates a force ready to fight while Democrats are divided between the corporate insiders and the progressive insurgents.
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It’s a distinction without a difference ultimately, but that’s because of Trump and the circumstances of these utterances. It’s certainly not because of grammar! (Or has Trump finally succeeded in making everyone lose their understanding of the English language?)
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Ira,
Trump has already abandoned his nuancing of “wouldn’t” and resumed attacking the Russia investigation as a witch hunt.
Some parts of the media seems to have adopted a new standard of evidence. Ask the accused if he is guilty. If he says no, that’s it. That’s the Trump line. Putin said he didn’t do it, and the case is closed. I said I didn’t do it, case closed. That seems to satisfy the Republican base. They should use the same standard when others are accused of crimes.
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I absolutely agree with you. His followers will buy it though. Is there a cure for stupid?
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Yes, Trump is stupid in many ways. But he’s REALLY good at creating a Cult of Personality, which is what is happening now. He has convinced his followers that the U.S. is in a cultural crisis, and that he, and ONLY he, can “save” the U.S. He’s convinced these followers that he is God-sent and that only he tells the truth. Cults of Personality don’t allow for independent thought, and that’s what is happening with his followers. Most of the time, these cults come in totalitarian societies. That’s the part that scares me the most.
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Why wouldn’t you believe etc. is a lot more damning as it conveys the opposite meaning of the first statement. Trying to claim it is a “double negative,” which is isn’t, is another example of our liar in chief. Trump is a little boy that throws a ball through a window, and then tries to blame the ball.
What is disturbing is that his loyal flock of amoral Republicans still follow this gutless grifter and put party over country.
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centrist democrats and those more progressive or socialist or leftist or not moderate enough should all unite on one issue, and spend at least August and September talking about one issue, and one issue only. Any other questions about any other issues should be brushed aside, with garbled sentences designed to mock Trump. That issue:” WE NEED TO SEE YOUR TAX RETURNS!”
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I hope that NY Attorney General Barbara Underwood is able to subpoena Trump’s tax returns as part of the state investigation of the Trump Foundation.
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The Orange IDIOT doesn’t like ‘baseless allegations’ against the president…no, he doesn’t like truthful criticism.
……….
White House Looking to Revoke Security Clearances of Six Trump Critics…Daily Beast
…“The president is exploring the mechanisms to remove security clearance because they’ve politicized and in some cases monetized their public service,” Sanders said. “The president doesn’t like people are politicizing agencies and departments that are not meant to be political.” Sanders also claimed those individuals made “baseless allegations” against the president. Hayden tweeted shortly after that he does not “go back for classified briefings,” adding that the measure “won’t have any effect” on what he says or writes….
https://thebea.st/2Lws8dS?source=email&via=desktop
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The New York Times confirms that neither Comey nor McCabe have a clearance.
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Why wouldn’t Teump change what he says about anything. Why would he?
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I would and also wouldn’t bigly put too much thought into the language of covfefe. Sad.
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I got this from a Canadian friend.
……
Donald Trump Parade in Washington.
A friend of Donald — maybe a golfing buddy — told him that he had a fantastic dream the other night:
There was a really really big, huge parade in Washington celebrating Trump. Hundred of thousands, perhaps millions, lined the parade route, and cheered and cheered when Donald went past It was the biggest celebration Washington had ever seen. Really Huge!
Donald was very impressed and said, “That’s really great! The best! By the way, how did I look? Was my hair OK?”
His friend said that he couldn’t tell. The casket was closed.
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My Canadian friend is on a role tonight…two Trump jokes in one evening.
…………………
A Good Catholic Joke
The Pope and Trump are on the same stage in Yankee Stadium in front of a huge crowd. The Pope leans towards Trump and said, “Do you know that with one little wave of my hand I can make every person in this crowd go wild with joy? This joy will not be a momentary display, but will go deep into their hearts and they’ll forever speak of this day and rejoice!”
Trump replied, “I seriously doubt that! With one little wave of your hand…Show me! So the Pope backhanded him and knocked him off the stage! AND THE CROWND ROARED & CHEERED WILDLY and there was happiness throughout the land!
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From newyorker.com: Leaders of ISIS and Al Qaeda Puzzled Why Trump Has Not Invited Them to White House [Satire from Andy Borowitz]
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—The leaders of isis and Al Qaeda said on Friday that they were totally perplexed as to why Donald J. Trump had not yet invited them to the White House.
The terror chiefs said that, as sworn enemies of the United States, they had certainly attacked the country enough to warrant an invitation for an official visit, and possibly a state dinner…
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/leaders-of-isis-and-al-qaeda-puzzled-why-trump-has-not-invited-them-to-white-house
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Trump calls our allies foes, has never said a bad thing about Putin and wants to be his friend, blames the US for being hostile to Russia, mistrusts the FBI and yet claims no other president ‘has been incredibly tough on Russia”.
Sanders is once again putting out her own spin. Read Trump’s Twitter. It definitely is Trump once again saying that Russia did not interfere in our elections, …”it is all a big hoax…”. It is hard for him to admit that Russia helped him win. He knows he did it all on his own.
Once again he has to slam both Obama and Hillary.
……………………………………………………………..
Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
So President Obama knew about Russia before the Election. Why didn’t he do something about it? Why didn’t he tell our campaign? Because it is all a big hoax, that’s why, and he thought Crooked Hillary was going to win!!!
5:23 PM – Jul 22, 2018
Sarah Huckabee Sanders Defends Trump’s ‘Hoax’ Tweet About Russian Interference
Just four days after President Donald Trump announced that he believed American intelligence agencies when they said that Russia interfered in the U.S. presidential election, he contradicted himself again, calling it a “hoax.” So White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders had some explaining to do Monday during her press briefing.
“So does he believe the interference was a big hoax — or does he have faith in the intelligence agencies that have concluded definitively the other way?” asked Philip Rucker of The Washington Post in the video of the briefing above.
Sanders insisted that Trump was “referencing the [Trump campaign] collusion component” and not Russian election interference. The president, however, didn’t mention that in his latest hoax tweet Sunday, and Rucker pointed out that Trump “suggested overall that it was a hoax.”..
Article: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sanders-defends-trump-tweet-russian-election-interference-hoax_us_5b56574de4b0b15aba91984d
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