Ever since John Merrow realized that Michelle Rhee was a con artist, he has been on a tear, exposing the fraudulent claims of reformers.
One of them is that the District of Columbia is a paradigm of reform, the very quintessence of the miracles that happen when test scores are the center of a system of rewards and punishments.
The recent graduation rate scandal sent a loud signal, bringing back memories of the test score scandal in 2011 that was swept under the rug.
“The emperor has no clothes, and it’s high time that everyone acknowledged that. Proof positive is Washington, DC, long the favorite of the ‘school reform’ crowd, which offered it as evidence that test-based reforms that rewarded teachers for high student scores (and fired those with low scores) was the magic bullet for turning around troubled urban school districts.
“But now we know that about one-third of recent DC high school graduates–900 students– had no business receiving diplomas, and that they marched across the stage last Spring because some adults changed their grades or pushed them through the farce known as ‘credit recovery,’ in which students can receive credit for a semester by spending a few hours over a week’s time in front of a computer.
“The reliable Catherine Gewertz of Education Week provides a through (and thoroughly depressing) account of the DC story, which she expands to include data from DC teachers: “In a survey of 616 District of Columbia teachers conducted after the scandal broke, 47 percent said they’d felt pressured or coerced into giving grades that didn’t accurately reflect what students had learned. Among high school teachers, that number rose to 60 percent. More than 2 in 10 said that their student grades or attendance data had been changed by someone else after teachers submitted them.”
First came George W. Bush’s “raise the test scores” campaign, followed by Arne Duncan’s “raise the graduation rate campaign.” Both of them produced lies (cf. Campbell’s Law). Both superficial reforms proved to be malignant in their impact upon students, teachers, and schools. Students were lied to about their proficiency, administrators and teachers cheated, school curricula were debased, standards were lowered, and confidence in public schools dropped.
Republicans and Democrats (CAP) are scrambling to work around this latest debacle.
Merrow reminds his readers: Henderson=Rhee. No change. No evidence that Antwan Wilson will change anything because he comes from the same cult of test-and-punish.
Another setback for “reformers,” who never admit failure even as their sand castles dissolve.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
What happened to the “reblog” button?
Maybe it was making the Happiness Engineers at WordPress unhappy.
maybe
So, I am sure many will say, like Regan did in the 1980s “there he goes again..” But here goes – I am the first to completely agree that applying Campbell’s law the attitude of high stakes did not work…That being said, I would also say (which some may not agree with) that having no stakes, i.e schools/teachers can do whatever they want will not work. In other settings. Dr. Ravitch has noted that private school teachers can have all of the freedom int he world they want in terms of curriculum, etc. That’s true – they also have no tenure and are on year to year contracts. Not to say that the pressure of high paying parents – if a teacher was that poor and parents put pressure on the school, I am confident a school would make the teacher leave or not renew his or her contact. That of course is NOT the case in public schools…
so where is the happy medium?
You keep raising this false dichotomy between high stake testing vs. “having no stakes, i.e schools/teachers can do whatever they want”. It has been explained to you over and over again that this has never been the case. Teachers have never been able to “do whatever they want”. Why do you keep insisting this is the case? It’s pretty pointless to respond to you productively because you don’t pay attention to anything that people tell you if it doesn’t fit in the worldview you “know” is correct.
Really? Show me cases where that is not true? Where there has been accountability for teachers? Because I can also show you cases where that has been the case. So are we at a stalemate? I am asking for something in the middle – are you calling for no accountability at all?
What were the stakes in the 1980s and 1990s for teachers? Where was the accountability? I am certainly open to hearing this…and trying to see why it worked or didn’t work.
Accountability begins at the top, not the bottom. Read Andrea Gabor’s Book “The Man Who Invested Quality”
Generals are held accountable, not the guys in the trenches.
Dr. Ravitch – I have read it….and I agree with you that if we have quality people in place and train them, then we should get out of the way. But what do we do in the meantime? Do we get rid of all of the teachers in place now, and rehire quality people (and then train them?) then what…Yes, accountability should occur both at the top and the bottom. And yes, the current person in the White House lacks much accountability. But then what do we do? Do we just say “we need accountability at the top” or do we find some sort of balance?
As for Finland, again, they have accountability with higher expectations for teachers at the outset -that includes a very complicated test – I recall hearing Salberg speak and share a story where his own daughter initially did not get a high enough score to get into teaching. He discusses how dreams are dashed of future educators…And yet you and others have railed against assessments like edTPA that are aiming to professionalize the profession…So, which one do you want? which do we need?
Oh, FFS, jls, you’re just being willfully obtuse. What do you think, this is still the wild west where teachers teach all by themselves in one-room schoolhouses? Don’t you think teachers report to principals and school boards and superintendents? Don’t you think those people have any responsibility here?
Shakes head
Certainly they do…and they should be held accountable as well -I never said that all of it should fall on teachers (did I?)…nope, never did. In fact, I would agree that all levels need more accountability…But then you enter this…either school boards are elected by democratically (we all saw how a democratic election turned out in 2016). or they are chosen by mayoral control (yes, I know, that doesn’t work here either)…
As for teaching being the wild, west…well, yes, I have seen that play out in schools, where you are right, the principal didn’t have any accountability at all and politics played a role in who stayed and who went…Now, if we got THAT out of education as well – maybe we would get somewhere.
BTW, how does a high score on a test ensure that someone is a good teacher?
When did I say that test scores should be the sole measure of good teaching? They don’t necessarily say that someone is a good teacher (I have seen classrooms where kids do well on tests despite how poorly a kid did). Not that you asked, but I think teachers should be measured based on a combination of factors – observations from administrators, from test scores, and some other factors (not sure – surveys from students/parents, observations from central office?, etc)…All of those factors together should be used and one should not be seen as weighted more than the other…
Last comment, jls because, as I said, you are obviously being willful here. You are the one who said that “teachers can do anything they want”. I pointed out that teachers have principals, school board members and superintendents that they are accountable to. You then moved the goalposts. I’m done.
Nope, what I am calling for is not just accountability to principals, etc. I do believe that there should be somewhat objective (I get that it’s hard to have this truly happen but this should be the goal).. Having poor principals an poor superintendents is also part of the problem – I won’t argue with you there. I hope you have a nice day
How about accountability for Superintendents? For the legislature, which controls the budget and passes mandates? How do you hold them accountable?
jls (10:55 post) – As Diane’s comment implies, it’s ineffective to assign accountability to those delivering the service, when there is no accountability in place for those who determine stds, orgl structure, scheduling, funding, etc.
But just to answer your Q re: teacher accountability in pre-NCLB decades – from my ’70’s exp, adding that of my sister’s ’80’s-present. My own evaluations when teaching were virtually the same as those I later experienced as a corporate employee. They were based on detailed feedback of live observations, plus discussion of performance in the usual areas (Subject knowledge, planning/ organizing, goals, work quality, classroom control, reliability, initiative/ creativity, judgment, cooperation). Same for my younger sister – until Danielson method introduced some yrs back, reflecting the data-crunching stud-test-score-based era. At that point evaluation became a cumbersome yr-long project for the teacher, involving much written work & data-input; the effect has been to cut time available for planning, creativity, grading. Locally I have friends reporting same issues w/Marzano method.
My sister has been in admin for some time now, & I conclude that good admins are teacher-qual watchdogs. It is not easy to get tenure in her schsys. Admins are proactive, watching for red flags, getting struggling teachers into support/ training classes, putting them on warning, monitoring progress, etc. None of the red flags are based on stud test-score data (which appear to be simply a bureaucratic burden imposed by the state), they are based on good practices.
And the above represents experience of just a few systems in a country which has about 14,000 sch districts.
A few thoughts….first, I agree accountability needs to go at all levels, not just teachers. So I completely agree with that. As for your experience with observations – I Agree that if everyone was doing that right now, then we all would be in a great place. But the reality is that is not happening – when I taught as recently as a few years ago, I can’t tell you the number of times I had teachers not observed at all, etc. As for the issues with data – I concur that the movement to relying on data only is an extreme (as someone noted here, just because a class has high test scores does not mean that the teacher is a good teacher, and vice versa). I will give you that. I have seen some good things about Danielson as it makes teachers really think about why they are doing the things they are doing in the classroom. Why is this good – because I think too often (and I will raise my hand here as someone who did this), those who taught the same classes year after year would not change a thing in how things were taught. The attitude was if it worked last year it will work this year and will work next year – planning? Who needs to plan when all I have to do is pull out last year’s lesson plans? Danielson makes a teacher justify the decision making – how is this NOT a good thing?
And kudos to your sister – again, if we had all quality administrators like that, then we would all be in good shape. But we don’t, do we?
A good lesson is a good lesson is a good lesson. Why reinvent the wheel?
Rather update and tweak it to fit the needs of your current students. I was constantly revising my standby lessons (along with creating new ones) to teach the basic library skills my students would need to be lifelong learners.
Of course, I always felt my role as librarian was essential as it was my job to make sure kids learned to love the library and develop, if not a love, at least a respect for books. And what I taught was not for a test, not to pass a grade, but skills to be used throughout their lives whether or not they attended college.
Perhaps that is the attitude we should have towards education.
Boy, I’m glad I was camping, floating and fishing instead of getting involved with jlsteach over the same old nonsense that he/she brings out every time.
Hope you enjoyed your time away Duane..
And you I also hope that maybe, just maybe you realize that there possibly is a sliver of truth to my “nonsense” in the same way that I see some truth in your perspective. Yes there are lots of great teachers in our schools. At the same time there are ones that aren’t so great. I certainly see how the “test and punish” hasn’t worked. Yet at the same time I’d argue that pre NCLB wasn’t that great either (even if you claim how we are the world’s best!) Personally I feel the issue is that an education more than anywhere else we constantly swing from one side of the pendulum to the other. You and others are swinging back against “testing and punish” noting it hasn’t worked. Yet at the same time I’ve noted how the lack of accountability in the 80s 70s or even 60s continued the great divide in education in this country. Again I note there must be a happy medium. And before anyone else says it yes accountability has to come at the top as well.
It was a “lack of accountability”. If anything it was a lack of equitable resources with putting the correct resources where they are most needed, i.e., poverty schools and districts (which includes both urban and rural ones). Until we provide the kind of resources that are truly necessary, and we all know that fundamentally that means low class sizes with the proper number of certified professional in not only teaching, but aides, SpEd, and support services so that each and every child’s needs might be addressed in the fashion that the rich, upper SES districts and schools offer.
And the fact remains that schooling accounts for less than 15% of the effect on student’s learning. The main effect is from the socio economic environment into which one is born. And our capitalistic economic system doesn’t give one damn to equitably fund our schools to the benefit of all students. And our politicians are bought and paid for by those same capitalist money handlers, many of whom also have fundie extian evangelical roots and agendas.
Apologies for the repeat comment.
Duane – we completely agree (you be surprised)…about the lack of resources. You are right that we need to do a much better job making resources more equitable…this starts with changing the current policy in nearly all states (I don’t know this for sure) where school funding is determined by real estate property taxes…
That being said, I am curious of your fact, “And the fact remains that schooling accounts for less than 15% of the effect on student’s learning” – do you have specific references on this…And are you just tossing aside anyone who is not born in the right situation? Your passion seems to say otherwise Duane…so I doubt that is what you are trying to say…furthermore, while I appreciate the passion and the need to change, I am sure that you right now are not getting together a small band of rebels to take over DC right (since outside of the American Revolution the US is not really about a coup)…So while you and others can rightfully discuss the need for change…what should be done NOW to make things better (or are you saying they can’t be better?)
Actually that figure used by Duane came from Research by Eric Hanushek.
Thanks for sharing this Dr. Ravitch…but I quickly googled his article in Education Next that noted that years after the Coleman Report in the 1960s little has changed in education. That being said, one cannot just quote Haneshuck and take one perspective (one like the families are most important, which I would agree with) and not side with him on his other perspective (that school resources don’t matter). To me, he’s rather pessimistic about any type of change at all given the current conditions. I’d rather still be fighting in the trenches.
Jls,
Hanushek first established that the teacher has only a small proportion of credit or blame for changes in test scores but not the last. It has been confirmed repeatedly by other social scientists that home environment and the student herself (effort) have a larger impact on test scores than the teacher and the school.
We had/have changes of clothes for our kids.
Some of them would come in with their garments stinking and filthy. They were very self conscious about it. So they’d change into our clean clothes for the school day. Change back to the originals when they’d go home because the parents would either be indignant or we’d often never see the clothes again.
I’d try to get the kids on board to clean up their language only to be told that I’m talking “pussy shit”.
Just two of many examples of the clash between home/neighborhood environment and school.
Thank you for trying to address both of these critical issues…a while back an 18 year old who was guardian for his younger sibling who attends my daughters’ school approached the principal and asked about where to get clean underwear. You see he was worried that if child services came and saw the child didn’t have clean underwear he or she would be taken away. There is so much that teachers have to address.
That 15% is a rough estimate of the overall influence on a child and his/her learning. In other words, 85% of a child’s learning is from outside the school. For a read on how stress effects students see: http://www.ascd.org/publications/books/109074/chapters/How-Poverty-Affects-Behavior-and-Academic-Performance.aspx
That article might help you understand the myriad influences that effect a child and her/his learning.
No, I don’t just “toss aside” those not born into the right situation, but at the same time birth family/mother’s education status play a huge role in influencing (not necessarily determining, but strongly influencing).
As far as “what should be done NOW to make things better”. . . .
Well, first one has to correctly identify the most salient problems in public education. Without the proper identification of problems (see all the edudeformer rationales that are far from being salient or cogent) one is lost. Ranking, sorting, separating students, treating all students the same, as is done in the standards and testing regime is THE number one problem, is education malpractice, these days should be immediately stopped. That plain and simple. Until then we are all just beating our brains our against the wall, accomplishing nothing. For when one does the wrong thing righter one becomes “wronger” as per systems analyst Russ Ackhoff:
Doing the Wrong Thing Righter
Educational standards and standardized testing are what systems theorist Russ Ackoff describes as “doing the wrong thing righter. The righter we do the wrong thing,” he explains, “the wronger we become. When we make a mistake doing the wrong thing and correct it, we become wronger. When we make a mistake doing the right thing and correct it, we become righter. Therefore, it is better to do the right thing wrong than the wrong thing right.”
So there you go again with the “bad teachers”. You just keep beating that dead horse into the ground. My children have had many teachers. A few were outstanding, most were OK, and there has been only 1 that I consider a “poor teacher”. It all depends on what you consider an education is supposed to be. Maybe those teachers that were just OK by my standards, were outstanding for other kids? Maybe for a 9 yr old who couldn’t tie his shoes on the 1st day of school and by Thanksgiving was then able to (thanks to the help of a teacher), that was a good lesson learned. What about the Downs Syndrome child who will never grasp the concept of fractions, but is an amazing artist and can help the teacher illustrate math concepts for the class….it doesn’t mean that the teacher gives up and doesn’t teach the math. You are basing education on the scores on a stupid test and education is much more than that. NO ONE/NO TEST can measure education because everyone is different.
Nope – I am NOT for basing good teaching only on test scores…if you can share with me other means of accountability, I am all for it. As for your example – it hits to the heart. My sister in law has DS – and I certainly wouldn’t expect her to do the same level of material that my own daughters do (they are third graders, and are probably at the same level academically right now)
What I am saying is that there is a big difference between a policy and its stated goals and the implementation of the policy. I never said that one should base education on scores on a test (show me where I said that). What I am saying is I think there should be some accountability in place…So…what do you suggest? Or do you suggest that all teachers can do whatever they please (I know, supposedly that has never been the case. I can tell you when I taught, there weren’t state standards yet, so yes, teachers could teach whatever they wanted to)
I want the same accountability that schools in Finland have.
Read Pasi Sahlberg’s “Finnish Lessons”
Accountability today is a measure of Family income
My sister was a teacher for 30+ yrs and retired recently because of VAM, over testing, CC. When she started teaching, she was given a set of benchmarks for the year along with her student list. It was her job to teach those benchmarks however she saw fit with the students she was given for the year. She wrote her own lesson plans, picked her own books/materials and directed students how she thought was best. No BS tests back then except for the Iowa tests that were given in 3rd and 6th grades…and didn’t take hrs to complete. When did benchmarks become standards, curriculum become scripted and the God awful test become everything?
So, I agree we shouldn’t have a set curriculum – not all teachers should teach the same way…BUT (and this is no offense to your sister, but I am wondering – how did she know they reached those benchmarks by the end of the year? What happened if kids didn’t reach those? And what happened if year after year kids weren’t reaching certain benchmarks?)
I am all for what you are saying, and as noted before hand…CCSS is not supposed to be something set in stone or specific ways to teach -they are more benchmarks that teachers are supposed to aim for.
The challenge with what you mention is that too often kids were leaving classrooms not having met anything close of the benchmarks they were supposed to meet? Then what? And guess what – too often, those students not even close to the standards wer ein certain communities.
You do the best that you can as a teacher. Kid X may not be ready for +/- of fractions but may read above level while kid Y flies through math, but needs help with reading. It’s why teachers were allowed to teach children to their needs. Teachers had autonomy to try different techniques to help kid X figure out fractions and kid Y would get the same considerations for reading. It wasn’t perfect, but kids were happy, parents were happy and teachers were happy and respected. The benchmarks weren’t set so high as to have children struggling with content that was far beyond their comprehension. Kids learned.
jls (12:49 post) “how did she know they reached those benchmarks by the end of the year?” Oh my gosh. How wouldn’t she know? When I was 6 y.o. in a 1-room rural schoolhouse in the mid-’50’s, my teacher kept me after one day & ascertained that I could read all the 1st-grade readers she would teach that yr, & perform the simple arithmetic functions she taught in 1st grade. Told me to go home & ask Mom if I could be in 2nd grade. This is not rocket science for trained, certified teachers!
Sure – and when I was in 4th grade in regular math, the teacher realized that I had potential to move to the gifted class. So the teacher worked with my mom (a math major and teacher), gave her the 5th grade book, and the following year I was in the gifted class – I loved math so much, that by the end of 6th grade, I was doing 8th grade math on my own…
Yes, there are anecdotes like yours and mine all the time of great teachers. but as I have written here, there is also the other side…where so many students have been passed on without any type of measurement of what they really knew – just passed on from one class to the next – scandals like that are just as horrific in my mind as the recent graduation scandals that were caused by the pressure to pass. Two wrongs never make a right. There needs to be a way in the middle to address the problem that still exists.
There has always been accountability in teaching, and there is more than one way to demonstrate it. In the 70s, 80s and 90s, in New York where I taught there were standardized tests, but there were no high stakes attached to them. Moreover, they were not the main focus of instruction. In the high schools there were competency and or Regents tests. Teachers got continuous feedback on students through in class tests, discussions and observations of students.
In my district teachers were evaluated through observations from trained and certified administrators. Teachers had an annual review by the building administrator and sometimes the central administration as well. The focus of the meeting was continuous reflection on practice and improvement. By the way teachers get daily feedback from students. When teachers sense students are lost or confused, the professional teacher regroups and figures out other ways to engage students and/or convey the information. We call these “teachable moments.”
How to save corporate education reform from itself? At least Rheetorically…
Try to appear above it all by ‘avoiding the extremes’ and ‘being objective’ and plotting a [mythical] middle course between the Scylla of obviously failed for-profit panaceas and the Charybdis of perennially nitpicking critics like the owner of this blog and her Ravitchbots.
🙄
Of course, that only works if one has mercilessly applied a Rheeality Distortion Field to oneself.
And we don’t need a very old and very dead and very Greek guy to wrap this up neatly. No, someone a bit fresher will do just nicely…
“There’s nothing in the middle of the road but a yellow stripe and dead armadillos.” [Jim Hightower]
Bada bing, bada boom…
😎
“Raise the Zombies”
Raise the test scores
Raise the grads
Raise the firings
Raise the fads
Raise the Core
And raise the Daves
Raise the zombies
From their graves
Bill Gates, Arne Duncan, David Coleman and Jason Zimba, with Michelle Rhee in the shadow
That’s SO mean.
My apologies to zombies everywhere.
They’ll just pick another city to hold up as the Miracle Model.
They already have. It’s Indianapolis. When that story falls apart under scrutiny it won’t matter- by then there will be a new one.
The used to sell Cleveland as the model for portfolio cities until Cleveland was quietly dropped- disappointing test scores.
The real miracle is that anyone believes the miraculous claims
“Reformiracle”
When you stare
It disappears
Laying bare
The inner gears
Miracle is
As miracle seems
Miracle biz
Is miracle schemes
What is some researcher who isn’t part of the echo chamber opened this up and looked at those cities that DID NOT adopt market-based ed reforms?
That might be interesting. There’s a lot of cities. Why do we only hear about schools in the cities that ed reformers “transformed”?
I am a scholar in residence at Finland’s largest teacher training university, the University of Eastern Finland, as well as a NYC public school dad. In Finland, teachers are as respected or more respected as doctors, and competition to enter the profession is intense, allowing universities the luxury of being highly selective. New teachers are selected from a pool of generally “high-achieving” high school students. Candidates to enter the program are given an exam that includes reading research papers and writing an essay that measures their skill in inference and analysis. They are also given a “black box” simulated team exercise in which they are evaluated on their ability to collaborate and solve classroom problems with other candidates, and how warm, inspiring and effective it appears they would be with children. Once accepted, they spend a great deal of time in real classroom settings with real children, being coached and mentored by master teacher PhDs. Once they graduate with the masters degree and become teachers, they are given respect, autonomy and support, and evaluated by fellow professionals, not standardized tests. Finland understands that education is an R&D-driven profession and that teachers must be as highly trained and respected as scientists, Olympic athletes, and astronauts.
Some states in the US require that permanently certified teachers complete a master’s degree, but in many states the objective is to reduce requirements for teachers. In the US the “reform” crowd is trying to undermine the teaching profession with constant bashing and lies. Their vision is to turn teaching into a low paying, low status disposable job. TFA includes a few weeks on training, and then they “teach” in poor areas. Some states are allowing people to teach through alternative paths including reformers’ boot camp, which is actually a watered down “college of education.” Relay is an example of this deprofessionalization. The tech companies also want to replace authentic teachers with computer driven instruction. Our current education policy makes no sense and has gone off the rails. The goal is privatization, not improving public education.
yet on the other hand, when there are movements to professionalize teaching (such as teacher performance assessments like edTPA), there is push back from folks on this blog about that as well – including a post about how a teacher didn’t get a certain score and this couldn’t become a teacher…So you cannot have it both ways…in Finland it seems that there is A LOT of accountability before hand (which I am all for)…with a very high bar…so, are you open to that here – that means everyone would have to meet it – no TFA for Finland, no TFA for US
High expectations should come with a commensurate salary. In many states the reverse is true. Teachers’ salaries are on the decline. “Reform” has led to a disinvestment in teaching as a profession. Most states are facing tremendous shortage of teachers. Teaching is challenging enough without all the politics teachers face today.http://neatoday.org/2017/07/17/teacher-pay-penalty-driving-educators-away-from-profession/
Sure – but then you run into the potential of what happened in DC – teachers were able to get bonuses for showing growth, and well….
jls, you claim pushback on the professionalization of teaching – which I would contend is a profession in the process of being de-professionalized by corp-ed industry-influenced political bureaucrats & electedreps – by citing the edTPA. Read up on the edTPA & its implementation problems. This cert reqt did not grow out of prof’l teaching orgs backed by research. It takes the certification of teachers out of the hands of the states and turns it over to a for-profit corpthat has much to gain from natl adoption of the edTPA: Pearson Corp.
Let me clarify some of your misconceptions about edTPA. First – it was created BY teachers and teacher educators – at the Stanford CEnter for Learning and Equity (SCALE). Second, it stems from the work that Linda Darling Hammond did around teacher performance assessments that be traced back to commissions in the 1980s that led to the development of the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards. So it was created from research and professional organizations. As for Pearson’s role – yes they are operational partners with edTPA, but they don’t control the material for the assessment, nor do they score the assessment. Those that score the assessment are K-12 educators and higher ed educators (trust me, I know plenty more about edTPA as I am completing my dissertation on it…in fact – some of the results from the dissertation note that teachers that took edTPA have found themselves either using or wishing they could use some of the high scoring practices from the assessment, such as encouraging student discussion or providing quality feedback)
I am sure that there is a Pearson like (or maybe Pearson itself) that is responsible for the tests that was mentioned that potential teachers in Finland take…yet, that type of accountability is ok? but not in the US? So we wait to raise the bar in terms of the expectations for teachers entering the profession and treat them with the same respect as doctors (as in Finland) but you don’t want to raise the bar on how to enter the profession? I see a double standard there.
You need a Masters degree (or to show that you are faithfully working towards one that will be achieved within a certain time frame) in order to teach in the NYC public schools.
Teachers are required to undergo observations (formal and informal/announced and unannounced) multiple times a year.
Part of the reason for lowering the bar of qualifications is that people aren’t entering the profession. Charters and public schools. Wonder why…?
And, yes: the tech companies are hard at work, making the teacher a tool of the technology (a monitor) as opposed to the original model: tech as another tool for the teacher to use.
Education isn’t cheap. At least, it shouldn’t be.
ljs, re 2/15 10:13 pm,
I expect you know much more about edTPA than I. It may have many good elements. And I expect many teachers would like to see improved ed coursework/ prep at undergrad &/or masters- level.
It just strikes me as an observer as putting the cart before the horse, in a couple of senses.
Partly because it is added onto, rather than integrated in an organic way with the coursework that precedes it. I am on thin ice here – uninformed – but this reflects (I think) the lack of nationwide professional structure along the lines of AMA or ABA. Sure the exam was developed by teachers/ researchers at Stamford – but are they connected with input/ field-testing/ feedback loops to prof orgs/ colleges at the state level?
Also because much of the practicum tested requires skills that one develops during the course of teaching over a period of years. Teaching has always seemed to me to lack a key element built into the structure of parallel professions, i.e., the on-the-job training/ mentorship of internship/ residency (med) or assoc-level (law), and the continuing collaboration of prof orgs. The edTPA just continues the misguided model of attempting to hatch the ‘compleat teacher’ in school, then drop into the boiling water of full-fledged practice.
So, bethree5, I appreciate that up front you discuss not being as informed as possible…So yes, edTPA has many elements of good teaching. As for the issue of adding onto as opposed to integrating into the coursework that precedes it – again that to me is not an issue with the assessment but an issue with the implementation. edTPA looks at actual teaching (having students lesson plan, video taping a component of the lesson they teach and then watching it back and commenting on components of their practice) and assessment (analyzing a student assessment and providing feedback, among other things)..They are all things I think we would want our teachers to focus on.
As for the second part – interestingly enough the edTPA rubrics are on a scale of 1-5, however for most states exams with a total of 15 rubrics have a passing score of around 40. So, in that sense, edTPA is NOT at all trying to make a complete teacher right out of the gate. In fact it’s the opposite – there are levels that seem to be for beginning teachers but there is also room to grow (and those levels are on the edTPA to help teachers consider where they can go in their early years of teaching)
edTPA stemmed from the Performance Assessment for California Teachers (PACT), which was first put into place when California became the first state to require performance assessments. PACT and edTPA were based off of the structure of National Board Certification. I would hope you and others would agree that if you knew a teacher was NBC that would mean something (not saying that teacher was automatically a good teacher – as noted before, we all have had bad doctors too, but if the doctor was board certified that told you something right away about what he or she has accomplished.
Another reason for a push for an edTPA exam was to help professionalize teaching in part because unlike medicine or law there are programs like TFA and alt-cert that appear to say that one needs little training to enter the classroom. BUT if all entering teachers, no matter what program, completed an edTPA, that could provide more concrete rational for whether alt-cert teachers were better or worse.
JLS,
I appreciate your insistence on always having the last word, but I think you should respect the fact that other readers have as much or more experience as you and disagree with you.
Dear Dr. Ravitch – well, the good thing is that this will probably be my last comment in a while on this or other posts given I have other items to focus on.
In terms of edTPA, I was only addressing some of the points and or misconceptions that bethree5 had brought up about the assessment. You are right there are different viewpoints on the role of the assessment – and plenty of people can and will disagree with me.
That leads to me to one final thought. I think part of my frustration with conversations here or conversations in general is that we try policy makers often view education policy in terms of absolutes, whereas the reality is that all of us are formed from our perspective. Dr. Ravitch I appreciate that you and others have a wealth of more knowledge and experience in education that have shaped your beliefs. In fact, you are one of potentially the rare people who have gone from one side of the spectrum all the way to the other side. I think that disagreement is fine – although sometimes I do wonder about the role of experience (yes, as a novice teacher in education policy classes I would come in filled with anecdotes, and it was only later learning about things like implementation gap, or Campbell’s law, that I saw another perspective. Such a perspective did not completely change my point of view, but it did help me understand someone else’s POV.
I chose to come from the perspective and make the assumption that most folks in education have some good in them and they are trying to do things positively for children. Of course that is not always the case, as the many charter scandals on this blog have noted. That being said, I think the 1% (or even 10%) of scandals in charter schools does not mean that all charter schools are bad (in the same way you and others argue that if 10% of teachers are bad that we should not have test and punish rules).
We are shaped by our experiences. I advocate for my perspective because of what I have lived and what my own students have shared. I am sure that others on this blog do the same thing. Personally. I think that education needs more dialogue and discussion. I understand people disagree with me here – that’s fine. And reading this blog provides another side. The danger, I think, is when we enter into absolutes and make assumptions. For example I don’t believe the value added measures of tying test scores to teacher observation protocols should be done. I also question the role of testing and how often in the US we do over test (one test in Elem, Middle and HS seems to make sense to me). I also think having a roadmap of what students learn in particular subjects (I teach math, so say Alg I, Geometry and Alg II) makes sense, but not controlling to the core of a scripted curriculum where every person must teach the exact same way. Those beliefs have been shaped by my time in both public and private education, as well as my experiences as a parent.
Dr. Ravitch – I am sorry to say that I will most liklely miss you speaking at AACTE in a couple of weeks. However, if you happen to be in the area before Saturday I’d love to find 15 min to chat with you in person .You have my information so if it’s possible let me know.
Thank you for listening. I hope everyone has a nice rest of the long weekend and a good week.
JLS,
I hope you take from this exchange the importance of listening to others and taking their convictions as seriously as you take your own. You may not be persuaded but you only learn when you listen.
thank you for sharing…I’d love for us to move to this…however (and I don’t agree with this idea, but I toss is out)…will it get push back that it’s too hard, that it’s keeping out minorities, people of color, etc?
I taught for over thirty years and have experience with teachers as a student and a parent (of 4 children). There were very few teachers I thought were in the wrong profession and many more who had a large impact on the children they taught (as well as their colleagues).
I worked in the Buffal Public Schools in various buildings, more than one be which had a large minority/poverty population. The teachers in those schools were some of the best schools since they had to work harder with less resources and more meager results.
Despite their concerted efforts, the test scores did not reflect their hard work. Of course, when the child enters school two or more years behind in their verbal skills, it takes a Herculean effort to help them “catch up”.
One year, after a full day summer school program, the test scores did you significantly increase. Then what did the state do? They changed the cut scores so that even more students would be labeled as failing (including suburban kids).
The issue is complex and nothing will improve with the policies currently in place . If anything it leads to comments such as yours. If those in charge don’t see the forest for the trees, then how much more difficult will it be for the general population to recognize the true situation.
The arbitrary cut scores are designed to create a ready pool of students for charters. This is not authentic assessment; it is a rigged system that targets poor minority students. As Diane as has said, the “best” teachers teach the wealthiest students.
Since John Merrow has some credibility, maybe he can change some people’s minds. Maybe he can make “unbelievers” of the “kool aid drinkers”.
The others are either purposely sabotaging public education, are naive, or just plain stupid.
I’d put all my chips on “purposefully sabotaging”.
The high rollers who have bank rolled deform are neither stupid nor naive.
They know exactly what they are doing and they are actually succeeding, not failing.
“Students were lied to about their proficiency, administrators and teachers cheated, school curricula were debased, standards were lowered, and confidence in public schools dropped.”
That pretty much covers all the bases.
Might just make someone question the real motives of the perpetrators of this national education “reform” movement.