There is something very sad about watching a community’s public schools die.
The Indianapolis Public Schools superintendent has recommended the closing of three public high schools due to low enrollments. These are neighborhood schools that were the heart of their communities. Two will be converted to middle schools. The other is in a gentrifying neighborhood and will probably be sold to developers.
Only four public high schools will remain in the entire district if this plan is endorsed by the board. There will be no more neighborhood high schools. Students will be expected to choose their school based on its program, not its proximity to home.
“IPS enrollment has fallen precipitously over the last five decades from a peak of more than 100,000 students to fewer than 30,000 in the last school year. Its high school enrollment is just more than 5,000 students; its seven buildings have capacity for nearly 15,000.”
The Indianapolis Public School District is controlled by two privatizing groups: the Mind Trust, Stand for Children, and the voucher-happy Friedman Foundation. Charter schools in the city are the third largest district in the state. Mind Trust, Stand for Children, and the Friedman Foundation exist to destroy public schools, and they are doing a bang-up job in Indianspolis.
Indianapolis, under the thumb of corporate reformers, has numerous charter high schools. Curiously, their performance is worse than the public high schools whose students they were supposed to “save.”
Do the privatizers learn nothing from their failures? Answer: No. Never.
A community activist wrote this in a personal note:
“No other options were considered by the Task Force appointed by the Superintendent. The Task Force included no parents, no students, no teachers, no principals, and no community members who weren’t real estate developers, charter school financiers, family members of charter school founder/Board chair, etc etc. Most of the IPS central office members on the Task Force have lived in Indiana for 3 years or less, it appears.”
From another community activist:
“This is not the IPS Board’s final decision; this is the superintendent’s recommendation, but it is likely to be what happens.
“Not surprisingly, they completely ignored the community input.
“If you do not like this decision, go to the Board meeting tomorrow night, 6 pm, 120 East Walnut, John Morton Finney Center.”
The resistance to privatization communicates through this Facebook page as We Are IPS:
There is something I don’t understand about the so-called”reformers,” who have run the district for years. They don’t believe in community. They believe in consumerism. They see the relationship between families and schools as a transaction, involving no sense of loyalty, no sentiment.
They fail, fail, fail, and they learn nothing. Their experiments on the children and schools of Indianapolis have been a catastrophe.
What makes them tick?
If IPS dies, this much is sure: It was murdered by “reform.”
Diane Ravitch's blog 
“They fail, fail, fail, and they learn nothing.”
We really need to get over this mentality and see our enemies for who they are. They aren’t “failing”. Their mission isn’t to educate kids. Their mission is to transfer public money into private hands. In that respect, they succeed, succeed, succeed and they’ve learned a lot – they’re getting better at it every day.
“What makes them tick?”
$ee above.
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Dienne,
You are right. I remember posting an article from Texas a few months back that made that point: the issue is not education, it’s about who gets the money.
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bingo
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Dienne–& this is happening in Illinois. Go back in Diane’s blog (I think the date is May 27, but simply type 50CAN in the search field) & read Laura Chapman’s post on 50CAN–she describes these organizations as “deep pocket & dark money,” & provides a link to the website of the P.I.E. (Policy Innovators in Education Network)-
http://pie-network.org/pie-network-members/
Guess who are members in Illinois? Advance Illinois & Stand for Children Illinois. And these are the organizations that have signed on as proponents of SB 1 (which “funds” the poorer school districts more equally)–however, you can no longer find the witness slips; every time a hearing has ended, one cannot view the w.s.s. & each time there is a new hearing, new slips are created. You can, however, Google “Fix the Formula,” & you will find Advance IL listed…along with Teach Plus & E for E. And, yes, there are other organizations listed, but, in viewing materials RE: “Fix,” one finds that the person hosting is an Advance IL member/promoter, & that the name “Advance IL” is on the power point.
The proliferation of charter schools is almost certain to come w/the
new funding.
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How many families and their students moved out of Indianapolis to attend suburban districts? Were these families guilty of being consumers?
Why is it ok for wealthy (in many cases, white) families to move out of urban districts without being criticized?
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Joe,
You are changing the subject. Mind Trust and Friedman Foundation have closed struggling schools instead of helping them, and replaced them with failing charter schools. Who cones to the rescue when the charters fail?
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Diane You criticized people who have a “consumer approach” to schools.. I’m asking you (and others) why you don’t criticize people who move to suburbs for having?
Also, why isn’t it, in part, “consumerism” for some families to select magnet schools that use standardized tests to determine who gets in?
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Joe,
I criticize billionaires, millionaires and their flunkies for buying school boards, closing public schools, and replacing them with contractor schools, which are far worse than public schools with certified teachers and subject to civil rights laws. I do not criticize any family for choosing to move wherever they wish, nor do I criticize parents who send their children to private or religious schools so long as they pay for it. I oppose privatization, and charters that drain resources away from, public schools are half of the DeVos agenda.
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Diane, you’ve repeatedly criticized the “consumer” attitude that you associate with chartering.
But why is it not a “consumer attitude” for families to op for suburbs or for elite magnet schools?
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@Joseph Nation: I agree with you. Parents (sometimes) make the choice of where to reside, based on the quality of the educational product delivered by the local publicly-operated schools. When my parents moved to Bowling Green KY, in 1967, they deliberately sought out a house , in the district of the quality school.
Wealthy people can move to areas with excellent public schools. Then they are more likely to support the tax base, and the money going to the schools. People lower on economic ladder, are stuck in districts with less financial resources, and the amount of money flowing to the schools is reduced. This sets up a “vicious cycle”, as more people vacate the poorly functioning school district, and more gravitate to the better-performing public school districts.
This sets up “educational apartheid”, and is particularly cruel to minority children.
Diane and I agree, on equality of funding for all publicly-operated schools.
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Charles,
I believe schools that enroll students who are very needy should receive more than equal funding
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We do agree about that. Some of us have helped make that happen here. Is your national organization working with various states to help improve state school funding formulas?
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@Diane: You and I are in agreement. I would love to additional funding and resources to flow to public schools in economically depressed areas. These students need additional counseling, therapy, additional special-needs teachers, nutrition, etc.
You see, there are many areas, where we agree.
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Also agree on these points, Charles.
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Fascinating to see a charter zealot—
Eviscerate the choice argument when he thinks it suits his purpose.
I think this falls into the “shooting oneself in the foot” category…
😎
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I’m a big fan of some forms of school choice – schools open to all, no admissions test, transportation provided, non-sectarian And I’m a big opponent of some forms of school choice – like when so called public schools are allowed to have admissions tests, or
Also, our 3 kids all attended urban public schools open to all. That’s not true for some people who post here.
The question I asked, why is it ok for wealthy (mostly white) families to move to suburbs, without being criticized for adopting a “consumer” approach to schools?
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Re “charter zealot…” our organization works with both district and chartered public schools. And I’ve been plenty critical in national publications like Ed Week of some of the things that charters do.
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Joe, cut the “consumer” crap. Nowhere in this discussion are parents being criticized for the choices they make about the education of their children. What is being attacked is the dismantling of the public education system, which is blatantly obvious in Indianapolis, by dark money from outside the community buying control of what should be a democratic, community controlled system. It certainly can’t be “about the children” when the charters they are pushing have been consistently outperformed by the real public schools.Public schooling is not a customer merchant relationship. If that is what you think, then you know nothing about the goals of public education. I don’t care how many years you have taught or been “in the business.” There is a difference between public institutions and your local Walmart.
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There is constant reference to, and criticism of a consumer mentality. But I’ve asked several times about why it’s ok for people to move to suburbs, but it’s not ok for people to send their kids to charters.
As I mentioned in a post just now, the move to suburbs has had a much larger impact on urban district enrollment and funding than has chartering. (National Center for Ed Statistics show about 17 million students are attending suburban public schools. There are about 3 million attending charters, not all of which are in cities.
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The same line over and over again. I have noticed, Joe, that you never cite statistics from large, well respected studies. It’s always some schools, or some parents,…in your position you should do better. Look at Chicago. Now the middle class black population is leaving. They’re not leaving for better suburban schools. They’re leaving because their neighborhoods have been destroyed. They’re leaving because there are no neighborhood schools anymore. No jobs, no businesses, violence, drugs,… The great migration is reversing; they are going where the jobs are. If there is one thing Chicago does not need it is more charters sucking money out of CPS.
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Actually, I cited the National Center for Educational Statistics, which is a highly respected source.
Having been born, lived in and having relatives in Chicago, I’m somewhat familiar with the situation. There has been massive movement out of Chicago. We agree some moving out are people of color. But Chicagoland also has many many whites who have moved out to northern, western and southern suburbs.
Illinois also is an example of a state with massive financial school funding inequalities. Suburbs generate much more per pupil $ and state does not do much to equalize funding.
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In the pattern of most cities over the past century each new influx moves out as they establish themselves. In more recent years with the shrinking of manufacturing and the exodus of business to the suburbs of course even people followed the jobs. It is too simplistic to just say the wealthy leave particularly in recent years when the well off are dominating the core of many large cities.
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Joe Nathan,
I contrast the “consumer mentality” to the civic mentality. Public schools, democratically controlled, open to all without discrimination, are a public good. As citizens, we are all responsible to support them. People are free to choose to go to private or religious schoools, at their own expense. They are still obliged as citizens to support PUBLIC schools. Charter schools are not public schools. They are run by private companies, are not trAnsparent, are not accountable, are free to kick out the kids they don’t want. That’s why the NAACP called for a moratorium on new charters. I know you are part of the charter industry. I know your talking points. They didn’t convince the NAACP. You are part of a movement to privatize American education because billionaires want to.
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America always have been about balancing different values. We work for and try to find ways to respect civic mission – ie for the needs of all and respect for the needs of the individual. Providing public school options is one way to move serve both missions.
Charters vary widely in who runs/operates them. Same is true for district schools – as you know in NYC, Chicago and some other cities where there are not controlled by locally elected boards. Same is true for state wide public schools. Same is true for colleges and universities where in several states, students can take all or part of their high school course work.
Polls show majority of African Americans are in favor of chartering.
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Joe,
Without the support of billionaires like Bill Gates and rightwingers like the Waltons and Betsy DeVos, CATO, the Heritage Foundation, the Hoover Institution, the Koch brothers, there would be no charter schools. None. And we would all be working together to fund and integrate our public schools, which belong to all of us.
Please read the statement of the Network for Public education on charter schools:
https://networkforpubliceducation.org/2017/05/network-public-education-issues-position-statement-charter-schools/
Arguing on behalf of privately controlled contractor schools on this blog is a waste of your time. You convince no one.
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They move out to those suburban districts to attend well funded public schools. Why can’t Indianapolis (and every other poor and minority urban community) have the choice to attend well funded public schools???
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I agree with you Dienne. Assigning students to a publicly-operated school, based solely on their zip code, is wrong. A school district should permit students to attend the school (publicly-operated) that is the closest match to their needs. Many school districts have “magnet” schools, which enable students to do exactly that.
There are all types of ways to exercise school choice, and still remain in the publicly-operated system.
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I don’t agree. Every school should be equipped and ready to meet the needs of all those children other than the most profoundly disabled.
Under Bloomberg, NYC embarked on a major school choice initiative. Comprehensive high schools err replaced by hundreds of small theme high school. But every high school had to prepare students for the same Regents exams. The “themes” were window dressing. We actually had a “High School of the Violin.” I don’t know whether every student learned to play a violin but it would make more sense, in my humble opinion, to have a High School of the Orchestra.
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NYC district has several performing arts schools. That’s good. But I wish they were open to all who would like to attend.
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Joe,
Those who choose to move to wherever, choose the home for many reasons, the schools maybe being one of many. For most the choice of residence comes down mainly to “what can I afford” and everything else is secondary, yes, even the schools play second, third or fourth fiddle.
Yes, I know what the real estate folks want everyone to believe about the supposed effect of the schools on real estate. But in a major metropolitan area there are usually many homes in many effective community public school districts from which to choose. Nearness (or perhaps distance from) to relatives, job location, day care and health care facilities, and many other things come into play, even for the “wealthy”. Schools are just one of many factors.
The “why can the wealthy be able to choose schools” meme doesn’t cut it for me as an excuse for charters to siphon off the easier students (mainly due to parental involvement) to educate, siphoning off education dollars that are direly needed by many districts, especially those that serve the lowest SES families.
Keeping up with the wealthy Joneses doesn’t seem to me to be a good excuse for that siphoning of monies into private hands. If those charters are so good let them survive in that vaunted free market of private schools without the aid of public tax monies. In the meantime the community public schools must fulfill their constitutional mandate to educate ALL children not just those whom the private schools determine to be economically feasible to educate.
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What you said.
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Joe, you are making an assumption large enough to drive a school bus through, namely that the only ( or primary) reason to move to the suburbs is for the public education found there.
Years ago my Dad and Mom moved out of Buffalo to be closer to my Dad’s work. It cut his commute time in half and the taxes at the time were a bit lower.
My family moved out of the city because we built the house of our dreams. We found it difficult to find a sufficiently large property in the city for our home, garden, garage/workshop, etc. We did look at the schools, of course, and their quality had an impact on what we did, but it was never a primary reason. And now that we’ve downsized a bit we’ve moved back into the city.
Now, I’ll grant you that for others the schools are a primary reason for moving, but it’s a stretch to assume the choice to move from an urban to a suburban environment is dependent on the schools.
Nah. It doesn’t hold water.
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Agreed, Lots of reasons for people to move to suburbs. One but only one is for the schools.
My point here is that some who post here criticize the idea of allowing families to choose among various public schools as making families adopt a “consumer” mentality.
I think allowing choices among public schools is consistent with lots of other freedoms in this country.
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Public school choice is okay.
Charter schools are privately owned and operated with public funds. They are contractor schools. They are not public schools. They should be funded by Gates, Broad, Zuckerberg, the Koch brothers, the Walton family, the DeVos family, Sheldon Adelson, Michael Bloomberg, and the other billionaires.
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Need to leave now to work with some district and charters.
Meanwhile, legislators in 43 states, the District of Columbia and Congress have adopted legislation that makes chartered schools part of public education – as are schools run by mayors, statewide schools run by appointed boards, and schools run by elected boards.
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Yup.
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Isn’t that special that legislators in 43 states drank the Koolaid. Despite the overwhelming support of people for their public schools, their legislators are attempting to divert public resources to private enterprises. So much for the vaunted free market.
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Exclusive suburbs for privileged people are far more “private” than public schools open to all, which do not require the ability to purchase an expensive home as their “admission test.”
Growing #’s of low income families are turning to charters in part because they can’t afford to live in exclusive suburbs, because in some cases the exclusive suburban school boards don’t want their kids to attend, and in some cases because suburbs have hired detectives to keep them out. How democratic (not).
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You don’t need to hire detectives to find out where people are living. We were required as teachers to update our students records. The district cracked down on residency at one point because people were sending their kids to relatives to get them out of Chicago. The gang problem was escalating to such an extent that the district started to pay attention. The change in atmosphere was dramatic. While we still had occasional fights, the almost daily gang related brawls ended.
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Speduktr – does this mean you are a special ed teacher?
Here’s a link to an Ed Week blog in which I gave examples of suburbs that had hired detectives to make sure their districts did not enroll students living in other areas
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/Bridging-Differences/2015/06/sub.html
People who can afford to live in exclusive suburbs should have the right to choose those schools for their students. But do many of those schools “serve all students?” Of course not. Only those who can afford to live there or pay tuition.
I think students from low income families also deserve to and can benefit from some educational options. And we’ve seen some wonderful examples around the country of both district and charter options that are serving low income families very well.
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“Retired” by non-special education admin who worshiped at the fountain of $$$. Experienced teachers who think they can teach without a script need not apply.
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I don’t know enough about how Minnesota operates and funds its school systems. Maybe you do have some good ideas; certainly funding by how rich a community’s residents are is not a good system. States must figure out how to fund all schools at a level that provides ample opportunity to its students. Allowing students to choose their school can and has led to space constraints and funding shortfalls. For districts that are surrounded by struggling communities funding should come from multiple sources that provide support for those communities beyond the schools. Schools should not be held accountable for the rehabilitation of society. We want to provide quality education to all students not reduce quality for all. Take from the rich and give to the poor has a nice ring to it, but anyone who believes it is that easy…especially in a society that buys into the rugged individualism myth and the fantastical “free market.” Trickle down economics also makes my blood boil.
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“…because in some cases the exclusive suburban school boards don’t want their kids to attend, and in some cases because suburbs have hired detectives to keep them out. How democratic (not).”
…in some cases…there you go again with your extensive research into the nasty tactics used to keep undesirables out of their suburban schools. I didn’t realize the issue was so simple.
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Thank you somuch for calling national attention to our fight against privatization in Indianapolis. Ed Choice is headquartered here and a former IPS employee is in their top ranks. Our school board has been bought by The Mind Trust and Stand For Children along with other ed reformers. Mary Ann Sullivan who is our board president “was instrumental in helping to pass Indiana’s charter enabling legislation, served as director of the Charter School Resource Center of Indiana, and was the founding director of the first statewide charter school association,” according her bio on Democrats for Education Reform. So we are fighting a never ending battle. Slowly but surely we are gaining ground. Thank you for the support!
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Christina, as a parent of 3 kids who attended urban district public schools, I have a question. Over the last 5-10 years, how many students have left Indianapolis to attend suburban district public schools that are not part of the IPS?
Also, how many students have left the neighborhood high schools to attend IPS Magnet schools?
My recollection from visiting a few times is that some suburbs are part of IPS, and some are not. Is that correct?
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Joe,
Did you skip the part of my post that says the charter high schools are among the lowest performing in IPS? What are they an answer to? Should I ask you or DeVos or the Waltons?
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Diane, like many public school parents, I don’t judge schools solely on test scores. The article you linked to used only that criteria. Research shows that many families do not judge schools mostly on test scores. Here’s a column in which I criticize Fordham for using test scores as the only criteria for quality – and cite some of the research about what matters to families:
https://edexcellence.net/articles/family-and-employer-values-should-guide-charter-school-evaluations
The article you linked to also did not make the blanket assertion, as you did referring to charters… “Curiously, their performance is worse than the public high schools whose students they were supposed to “save.” The article said some charters have among the lowest test scores.
Some of the finest district and charter public schools I’ve seen or worked with had relatively low test scores but were doing wonderful things with students.
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A pity your criteria are not applied to the public schools that have been closed for low test scores.
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Agreed that schools, district and charter, should not be closed just on the basis of test scores.
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Indianapolis Public schools issues started with desegregation. White flight to the burbs, like many urban areas. In the late 60’s IPS was at it’s highest. Then in the early 70’s when forced desegregation finally occurred Inner city African Americans were bussed to the white suburbs. Funny how desegregation was bussing out POC not bussing in whites. Fast forward to charter school legislation enactment and they opened up shop only in urban areas. There has always been a myth spread that IPS was terrible. When in reality its just poor and predominantly minority students. Now that living in the urban core is chic again the city, along with IPS has created inequities within the district. These inequities overwhelmingly favor richer whiter neighborhoods. The district has literally came into high schools doing well, George Washington Community HS, and gotten rid of staff. They pull support for struggling schools, read as school with high special needs population and high poverty levels. They pour resources into desirable, read richer whiter, magnet schools. They have gone as far as to take a HS magnet program, Law and public policy, that was majority students of color, and move it to another side of town. Why because the building was closer to the richer whiter neighborhoods and they wanted it to take the kids from their magnets. They did the same thing to a performing arts magnet elementary school. Moving it from the NE corner of the district to the SW corner of the district. Now it’s becoming an innovation Charter school.
Do we have students leave to go to the burbs yes. Do we have students who go to a charter school yes. Do we have students who leave for a private school yes. That is due to racism, perception and largely to the actions of the city and board that are decimating the district.
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Thanks for these updates. Sounds like great examples of why growing numbers of families do not have faith in large urban systems…hence the growth of charters. That’s certainly not to say all charters are great because they aren’t. And there are some terrific district schools.
But the growth of charter enrollment from less than 100 to more than 3 million over the last 25 years is in part a reflection of frustration some families have with decisions school boards make.
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“The question I asked, why is it ok for wealthy (mostly white) families to move to suburbs, without being criticized for adopting a “consumer” approach to schools?”
People should be able to move where they chose for whatever reason(s) make sense for them and their families. Why should people who move to suburbs be criticized any more than the people who already live in suburbs?
The more appropriate questions are 1) why does society* allow schools in some areas to decline in quality and 2) what is the evidence that “education reform”/”choice” is an effective mechanism to improve schools/education and not just a scheme to ultimately divert taxpayer funds into for-profit businesses for no gain (and potential loss) in education quality?
This is where you can blame those wealthy suburbanites in toto if you wish: for electing politicians who don’t adequately support urban schools.
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Morphd – we agree that “People should be able to move where the chose for whatever reasons make sense to them and their families.” Does this apply both to parents whose kids attend district and parents attend charters?
I ask because there are constant criticisms on this list serve of a “consumer approach” to education as part of criticisms of chartering. Why is it ok to move to affluent suburbs but not ok to move to chartered public schools? In fact, the largest tax supported school choice program in the country is suburbs – far more families are using that system than using charters.
The Condition of Education – Spotlights – 2013 Spotlights – The Status …
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_tla.asp
“Public schools in rural areas enrolled 12 million students, representing 24 percent of total enrollment, compared with 17 million in suburban areas (34 percent of enrollment) and 14 million in cities (29 percent of enrollment).”
The National Alliance for Public Charter Schools says about 3 million students attend charters. And not all those 3 million attend urban charters)
The context here is that families/students moving to suburbs has had a much larger impact on urban district enrollment than do chartered public schools.
We also agree that some politicians don’t adequately support urban schools. Fortunately here in Minnesota, urban public schools receive more $ per student than some of the suburbs.
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You keep saying that word “consumerist”, but I don’t think it means what you think it does. There’s nothing “consumerist” about expecting the schools to be safe, clean, well-resourced and have up to date books and technology. When the local public school can’t or won’t provide that, parents have to look for other options, which might include charters, private schools or moving to the suburbs. We can talk about “choice” or “consumerism” all you want, but parents are only making those “choices” because the choice they want isn’t available (most likely because the local public schools have been neglected and starved of resources and/or inflicted with a Broadie principal/superintendent). Then parents are forced into a “consumer” relationship with schools, but that’s a forced choice. Incidentally, consumerism is not a choice that affluent parents in tony suburbs are forced into. Those parents have a proper democratic relationship with their schools.
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It is so sad to hear of high schools closing. …so very misguided. They are more than likely not the high schools in white suburbia. So it means students, some of whom already lead disrupted lives will face more disruption. God help those in power who make these heartless decisions.
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I realize that I replied to Dienne’s much earlier post, &, thus, might be overlooked. Please make sure to scroll up to the beginning of the comments & read.
Especially those of you in Illinois.
Charter schools/public school closings…coming soon, to a village/town/city/state near you!
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Oh–& I left out–courtesy of YOUR tax dollars.
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“Let (Milton) Friedman ring”
From shore to shore
Let Friedman ring!
With Common Core
Let Friedman ring!
With edu-wares
Let Friedman ring!
Cuz market cares
Let Friedman ring!
With parent choice
Let Friedman ring!
And Bill Gates’ voice
Let Friedman ring!
With charter schools
Let Friedman ring!
And techy tools
Let Friedman ring!
From birth to death
Let Friedman ring!
Till final breath
Let Friedman ring!
From here to there
Let Friedman ring
And everywhere
Let Friedman ring!
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Some might argue that Milton Friedman would never have supported Common Core, but here’s what he said in 1955 in “The Role of Government in Education”
“The role of the government would be limited to assuring that schools met certain minium standards such as the inclusion of certain common content in their programs, much as it now inspects restaurants to ensure that they maintain minimum sanitary standards.”
Friedman even uses the term “common core” in the very next paragraph in reference to the “common core of values deemed requisite for social stability”
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And the reason given for the need for national standards by Bill Gates in a 2009 speech was to empower the free market in the education arena.
Very Friedmanesque.
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As I recall, Gates told the annual NBCT meeting that there should be national standards because if we didn’t have common electrical standards, we couldn’t plug in our toasters. Reformers don’t understand that children and teachers can’t be “scaled up.”
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Toasters is a paticularly apt word choice, given that students come out like burnt toast.
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Gates uses the “standard plug” analogy in this talk at AEI.
It is also very interesting how, in 2014, he was already rewriting the history of how Common Core came about
“I think it was the National governors association that said we aught to get together on this…a bunch of teachers met with experts ”
Yes, of course. He “thinks” because he had no involvement himself and therefore doesn’t know anything about it…
Ha ha ha.
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Don’t let it be forgot, for one brief shining moment, it was known as Gates-paid-for-the-Common-Core and it was.. not …Camelot. That comment makes no sense unless you know the lyrics to “Camelot.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-bill-gates-pulled-off-the-swift-common-core-revolution/2014/06/07/a830e32e-ec34-11e3-9f5c-9075d5508f0a_story.html?utm_term=.2a360ce5b7c3
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And of course, that original talk that Gates gave to tout the need for national standards to National Conference of state Legislatures took place in 2009, before governors proposed national education standards ( in 2010.)
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My country, tis of thee
Sweet land of Liberty
Of thee I sing
Land where the market rules
Land of the “outlet” schools
For all the chumps and fools
Let Friedman ring!
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Brilliant, SDP! Related to Friedman: the influence of James Buchanan, another U. of C, economist, is discussed at length in the new Nancy MacLean book, Democracy in Chains: the Deep History of the Radical Right’s Stealth Plan for America, lots having to do w/1970s Buchanan-Koch connection. (Remember, ALEC was born in 1971.) From what she’s saying on Democracy Now, Buchanan was responsible for laying out the plans which have got us where we are today; his ideas are said to have transformed the Republican Party.
Indeed, this book sounds as if it’s a must-read. Buchanan, it appears, was the architect of school privatization.
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What is so “sad” about watching a community’s public schools “die”? The article states
Q IPS enrollment has fallen precipitously over the past five decades from a peak of more than 100,000 students to fewer than 30,000 in the last school year. Its high school enrollment is just more than 5,000 students; its seven buildings have capacity for nearly 15,000.
“Right-sizing the district’s high schools will allow us to redirect resources,” Ferebee said.
The district is estimating a savings of $4 million each year from its general fund and $3 million in operations, utilities and capital funds annually. Some of that money would be redirected to its new career academy models. ENDQ
Clearly, the student population in Indianapolis has declined from 100k to less than 30k. It makes perfect sense, for the publicly-operated schools to “right-size”. Closing surplus schools makes excellent economic sense.
What is occurring in Indianapolis, and in other communities, is the process of “creative destruction”. The student base has relocated out of the city, and the demand for education services has transferred elsewhere. Just like when Kodak closed down, and the population of Rochester, NY declined.
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What’s sad is that the public schools have been murdered.
Indianapolis’s population has been steadily increasing for decades, so that should mean that there should be more kids in IPS, right? So why is IPS enrollment declining? Maybe it’s because the schools have been systematically starved and neglected in order to make charters and vouchers seem like a good idea? As I explained to Joe above, when families are forced out of their local public schools, they are forced into a consumer relationship with schools – they have to “shop” for other alternatives. But the alternative people consistently want is a safe, clean, well-resourced public school in their own neighborhood. For all you talk about “choice” and the rich having the same “choices” as the poor, you don’t seem overly concerned that the one choice that parents want is only available to the affluent and not to the poor.
BTW, this is pretty rich: “The student base has relocated out of the city, and the demand for education services has transferred elsewhere.”
As if the “student base” just one day up and decided to head for the hills. As if there weren’t intentional forces behind that “relocation”. Please, Charles, stop embarrassing yourself.
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In 2015, Indianapolis had a population of 853,173 (source US Census Bureau, my former employer), Just because more people are moving into Marion County, Indiana, does not mean that there must be more children enrolled in the public schools.
Maybe the public schools are not delivering the education, that the parents/students feel is right, so many of them are opting-out of the public schools, and exercising choice. (Indiana has the highest participate of school choice in the nation).
I fail to see how anyone has been “forced out” of the public schools in Indianapolis. According to the article there are about 5k students (high-school age) enrolled in a system with capacity for 15k students and there are seven buildings. This is what economists call a “surplus”.
All students who attend any school, are “consumers”. The school provides a service (education) which is consumed by the students. The wealthy have the ability to choose the schooling for their children. People lower down on the economic ladder, cannot pay for education twice, so they have to take the educational services provided by the publicly-operated schools.
What is so odd about saying that the student base of Marion County, Indiana has relocated? According to the article, a drop from 15,000 to 5,000 sounds like a relocation to me. No one said that the relocation occurred overnight.t
I am certain that there are many factors involved in the reduction of students enrolled in that city. Demographic adjustments, relocation employers/employees, lower birth rates, suburban growth, all contributed to the drop in student enrollment.
According to Private School Review: There are 127 private schools in Indianapolis, IN, serving 27,371 students.
It seems that the private schools are delivering the education that parents/students are satisfied with, and the public schools are not.
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Charles,
You did not read my post carefully. The charter high schools are the worst high schools in Indianapolis. The public high schools are better. But they are being closed because the 1% want everyone in a private school paid for by taxes, regardless of quality. Probably the goal is to get rid of experienced teachers with high salaries and pensions and unions.
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Isn’t it more accurate to say, “using standardized test scores as the measure, some of the lowest performing high schools in Indianapolis are charters, and some are district schools? That’s what the article you linked to seems to be saying.
US News and World Report, which uses somewhat broader metrics, lists both an Indianapolis district and a charter as among the top 25 high schools in Indiana.
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/indiana/rankings
Might one of the reasons that the 3 high schools are being closed being the district has more buildings than it needs, given a dramatic reduction in enrollment?
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US News is a fraudulent metric. They ignore cherry picking and attrition. If you read this blog when their rankings came out, one of their best high schools had 11 graduates!
Anyone can be a winner on US News rankings if you kick out or exclude the kids who don’t get high scores. That’s why BASIS of Az is the “best.” Kids who can’t take and pass multiple AP courses drop out.
The charter schools in Nevada and Ohio are the worst schools in the state. Andre Agassiz’s vaunted charter school in Las Vegss, which raised millions of dollars in adiition to public funds, is one of the lowest performing schools in the state and was added to the “Achievement school district,” where schools go to die.
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We agree that US News ratings are not perfect.
But my question had to do with your assertion, above re charters in Indianapolis. Isn’t it more accurate to say, “using standardized test scores as the measure, some of the lowest performing high schools in Indianapolis are charters, and some are district schools?”
That’s what the article you linked to seems to be saying.
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But, Joe, charters were supposed to “save poor kids from failing schools.” Now we see in Indianapolis that charters fail too. What happens to those poor kids. You closed their public high school–the one that had the trophy cases and memories–and put them into a failing charter. It wasn’t supposed to be that way. Or was that the plan? The high performers cherrypick and have high attrition. The others?
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What role did the thousands of people who moved out of Indianapolis play in the closing of schools?
Did you forget that from the beginning people who advocated chartering recognized that all newly created schools would not succeed (just as all alternative schools did not succeed, although some served students very well)?
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No, Joe, I was there at the beginning and heard charter promoters claim they would save poor kids from failing public schools. They never said, some will succeed by excluding the low-scoring kids, some will fail, and most will get the same results as public schools. Never heard anyone say that. They promised success.
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Diane, you were not in Minnesota, when the first charter law was passed.
And I was in NYC meeting with the Governor where we discussed chartering – several of us made it clear that
a. Unlike the elite quasi private magnet schools in NYC that use admissions tests, charters would be open to all
b. Giving people a chance to start new schools did not guarantee that they would be successful.
c. Chartering was based in part on experience in NYC where teachers were given a chance to create new options.
d. One of the lessons learned in NYC and other districts was that a new school board or administrator could (and sometimes did) come in to wipe out wonderful work that teachers had done to create a new option. This experience is part of what led to the idea of giving other organizations the opportunity to authorize creation of new public schools
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Joe,
Do you approve of corporate charter chains that take over local schools?
Do you approve for-profit charters?
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Diane – How about you acknowledging that
a charter legislation is created in every state by democratically elected state legislatures?
b. In every one of the states where legislatures have approved chartering as a strategy, the legislature has made charters part of public education?
c. In Minnesota, New York and other states, those advocating for chartering agreed that not every school would succeed?
d. To go back to the beginning of this threat, acknowledging that while it’s not wise to base quality solely on test scores, some Indianapolis charters have higher average scores than do district schools?
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“Do you approve of corporate charter chains that take over local schools?”
“Do you approve for-profit charters?”
Gee, Joe, these are simple questions. Why don’t you answer them?
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Have you never had that experience of a school as a center of community? Yes a district has to adjust to the ups and downs of the student population. That is a normal part of many districts including my own “tony” suburb. My community, however, has not been inundated with charter schools. Residents are, in general, financially comfortable although, believe it or not, we do have people who struggle to survive. The difference is that we are a stable community that is able to meet the needs of its residents for the most part. I hate to say it, but I am sure some of the hated charter school investors are living comfortably here. Our own public schools are top notch. It would be a really hard sell to start a charter here. They have nothing to offer that isn’t already available. Indianapolis is a juicy target for the villanthropist. You can pretend to be providing a community service and make a killing at the same time. ‘ “Right-sizing the district’s high schools will allow us to redirect resources,” Ferebee said.’ Yeah, they can “right size” public resources right into private hands. Why not just invest in the public schools rather than bleeding them dry?
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Which tony suburb is that?
Traditional suburban district schools are great places for many youngsters – but not all
You might be surprised, that some suburban families are delighted they have options. Some suburban families in the Minneapolis St. Paul suburbs choose charters because, for example, they offer
* two arts focused charters – one in a suburb, one in downtown St. Paul
* a Chinese immersion program
* a small, project based school the majority of whose members are teachers in the school
* several schools for youngsters with whom large traditional district suburban schools have not succeeded
* a German immersion school
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“Which tony suburb is that?
Traditional suburban district schools are great places for many youngsters – but not all”
Really!? The high school was definitely not right for one of my sons, and he was not right for it, but he survived and actually benefited from it in ways that he is probably not aware of because he has nothing to compare his experience to. He found ways to pursue his interests.
I will not share the name of the suburb. It will not add anything to the discussion, and may even detract from it. My department chair in the low socioeconomic district in which I last worked initially had me pegged as a rich do-gooder who wouldn’t last because of where I lived. Being neither rich or of the do-gooder class (whatever that means) I know it wasn’t a compliment but a slur on how he saw the community where I lived. He told me that at my first year review at which point he meant to tell me how mistaken he was. We do far too much labeling of people based on superficial knowledge that I am not going to encourage that process.
I wish he had stayed; he was a good special ed administrator and good buffer between us and central administration. When he left, they slowly dismantled special ed and handed it over to bean counters and micro-managers. My next supervisor tried but was given no power to lead the department.
You know all the reasons that contributors to this blog object to charters. The reasons are solid and legitimate. Without major changes charters will never be welcomed by most people here. Your “but some” comments either for charters or against public schools do not change the validity of the substantive concerns we have about the charter movement as it is currently constituted. It bears no resemblance to its original intentions, and, frankly, does nothing that cannot be done through the public schools.
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Yes, lots of time and energy is spent here to attack chartering. It reminds me of the attacks on progressive public school district options 40 years ago. Attacks came from traditional district teachers, from colleges of education, from some community groups.
As Al Shanker wrote in the late 1980’s, public school educators who tried to create new within district options could look forward to “insecurity, obscurity and outright hostility.” Having attended and spoken at alternative school conference in more than 30 states, I can affirm that many of us experience what Shanker described.
Despite opposition from traditionalists, some educators saw the value of creating new district options. Boston and LA Pilot Schools are great example. So are the New Visions Schools in Chicago. And there are many, many more. It’s great that many district educators are trying hard to reach and help youngsters achieve their potential
Having said that, in many places, district educator are being restricted and deeply frustrated. This list serve constantly posts district teacher frustrations, and you
you’ve share some of your own.
Some educators are finding much greater satisfaction in helping start and work in charters. Some educators also are frustrated by their experience with charters.
But the growing number of families and educators choosing options – both within districts and in charters, suggests providing options is one part of broader efforts to help more students succeed.
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You may be able to tell where I live from this comment. Having taught in surrounding high performing communities, I was surprised at the level of hostility leveled at my home district because of its progressive philosophy. The sneer and jeer was a bit puzzling to me since, just like the other communities, this district turns out well prepared students. While I find that that progressive spirit has been dulled a bit by the focus on testing that has infested Illinois school districts, we still hang on to a core belief in children as active partners in their learning rather than passive recipients.
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Glad to hear about the philosophy that remains in your district.
The Illinois school funding situation is disgraceful students from low and moderate income families. But I’m glad you’ve found a place where you feel you can do the work you want to do. Obviously many teachers have not been able to find such a situation.
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I started teaching again too late, and I have passed the age where anyone would hire me after I lost my last job. they seem to cut their teaching staff by eliminating 3-4 year probationary teachers, so they can start again with fresh blood. It’s like they have invented their own down and dirty version of TFA. Now, I just keep a close watch on what is going on. I would have stayed in that district (yes, I hate to admit it, “for the kids”) if I had been allowed to do so. It is just as well I didn’t since the demands would have killed me, and I doubt I would have been allowed to teach as a professional. The latest genius plan is to put all special ed teachers in mainstream classes to “co-teach.”
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I would work in a well planned charter in a minute if they were part of the public schools, and accountable to them. Charters forced on a community that leech away public school resources and are not accountable to the taxpayers who are funding them are a different animal.
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Omg. Terribly sick.
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I believe a commenter recommended our reading the new book, Democracy in Chains, by Nancy MacLean. Amy Goodman is interviewing her this hour (it’s on in Chicago, Ch. 20, at 12 AM CT–don’t know about elsewhere). It is pertinent to the discussion here, as a portion of the book describes the radical right’s plans to dismantle publics & privatize schools.
You can also watch on the website–probably tomorrow–at democracynow.org
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