GOP state leaders in Michigan are warning that they plan to find a “solution” to the problem of teachers’ pensions. This is the DeVos legislature, commanded by Republicans who salute when the DeVos family calls.

Categories Funding, Michigan, Pensions

92 Comments Post your own or leave a trackback: Trackback URL

Jon Awbrey says:

November 28, 2016 at 4:08 pm

Table? More like chopping block …

Reply
- Uncle Albert's Nephew says:
  
  November 28, 2016 at 6:49 pm
  
  I was thinking the menu.
  
  Reply
rwieck says:

November 28, 2016 at 4:08 pm

In KY, we are filing suit. Watch tomorrow’s news.

Randy Wieck

TRELF

________________________________

Reply
- Duane Swacker says:
  
  November 28, 2016 at 4:10 pm
  
  What is TRELF?
  
  Reply
- Joe says:
  
  November 28, 2016 at 5:29 pm
  
  Teacher Retirement Legal Fund http://kentuckyteacherretirement.weebly.com
  
  Reply
  - Duane Swacker says:
    
    November 28, 2016 at 11:55 pm
    
    Gracias
Laura H. Chapman says:

November 28, 2016 at 4:16 pm

Many states have teacher pension plan initiatives.

http://www.pionline.com/article/20101004/PRINT/310049980/cola-reduction-laws-under-fire-in-3-states

Reply
- Threatened Out West says:
  
  November 28, 2016 at 6:18 pm
  
  Happened in Utah six or seven years ago. Now all new pensions are just a 401K. One of the many laws the state legislature has passed to punish teachers for opposing vouchers in 2006.
  
  Reply
  - Threatened Out West says:
    
    November 28, 2016 at 6:19 pm
    
    Plus, we have to have 35 years teaching to fully vest in the pensions, for those of us who had already been paying into the pension before the change. No other public service job in the state requires so many years to vest in the pension.
  - Rudy Schellekens. says:
    
    November 28, 2016 at 6:34 pm
    
    The hybrid plan is a combination of a pension and 401(k) plan. Your employer will contribute 10% of your annual salary between both plans – the pension and the 401(k).
    
    The pension gives you a guaranteed lifetime monthly benefit calculated by several factors. You can determine your likely benefits with the following formula:
    
    Year of service
    multiplied by
    1.5%
    multiplied by
    Final Average Salary (average of five highest years)
    
    For example, if you worked a total of 35 years with an average salary of $65,000, your final benefit would be $34,125 annually or $2,843.75 monthly.
    
    You become eligible for full monthly retirement benefits if you are:
    
    65 with four years of service
    62 with 10 years of service
    60 with 20 years of service
    Any age with 35 years of service
    Defined Contribution Plan
    With the defined contribution plan, you sign up for just the 401(k) plan, and do not receive a guaranteed monthly pension.
    
    Your employer contributes 10% of your annual salary to a 401(k) plan. Total contributions paid into this plan become vested to your account after four years of service.
    
    In other words, you are wrong. You can retire at any age after 35 years of service. If you started at 22, 57 is your retirement age. 35 years entitles you to a full retirement amount. Which makes sense in any reasonable world.
    You are “vested” in four years (You become eligible for full monthly retirement benefits if you are: 65 with four years of service…
    
    Of course, you don’t get piddly squat, but if you started teaching at age 61, or when you taught four years when you were 30 and decided to quit, you will get a (granted, a very) small retirement.
    
    Some states have an 88 rule. If your age and years of service reach 88, you qualify for (early) retirement.
  - gitapik says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 8:27 am
    
    Thanks for the detailed analysis, Rudy. I’m not sure how it’ll translate, though, if the states start putting caps on the COLA.
    
    I see some substantial chance of abuse, here. Let’s say a governor wants a cap in his/her state. They could intentionally spend more in different areas of the budget and then eventually claim that all important state “need” for an out of the COLA in order to make ends meet.
    
    The worst part of all of this is that we, the teachers, seem to be finding less and less areas of recourse in any area, whether it be in the classroom or our paycheck. The state and federal governments are all being bought out by these billionaires who seem to have declared all out war on the teachers unions.
  - Rudy J Schellekens says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 10:20 am
    
    If I only had it as good as a teacher… How is that for using the phrase referenced earlier?
    Starting pay (where I live) is at about 36,000, with an increase each year, as stated by their contract – even when there are budget trouble, the increase is paid. Non-bargaining people, like me, have had anywhere from a pay freeze up to 1.5% increases where teachers have had 2-4% increases, consistently, each year.
    Non-bargaining pays anywhere from 7% – 20% towards their health benefits. Teachers? $ 25.00. For me? about 1,100/yr, for administrators about $ 3,000/yr.
    And I am okay with that. We all pay about 7% towards (District 8.5%) pension plan.
    
    And yes, it IS a “pay as you go…” system. It has nothing to do with, “But I paid for this…” Figure it out: I’ll work with a dollar, makes it easier. In total, I pay .07 per month x 12 = .84 per year. That is not even close enough for ONE month in income. I pay this for 35 years, that brings it to 35 x 84 = 29.4. I live till I am 83. That means that my 29.4 (Which is equal to a little less than 30 MONTHS. Where is the rest of the money coming from for the rest of the 240 months I hope to live? If I were to invest that same .84 per year into an investment account, there is no way I would make enough to live my extra 20-30 years.
    
    With the baby boomers all retiring within a limited time window, the attack on the funds will be enormous. If people were not paying in, the pension fund will be broke within 6-10 yrs (roughly).
  - dianeravitch says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 10:21 am
    
    Rudy,
    
    You should become a teacher and enjoy the life of luxury.
  - Rudy J Schellekens says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 10:26 am
    
    I could have started it with, “You don’t have it as bad as I do…” But I figured I would go for the positive approach.
    
    Apart from that, I DO teach some of the time – teachers. And o what joy… They break every rule they have developed for their own class room…
    
    And I did think about becoming a teacher, actually. But I did not want to inflict myself on these poor, unsuspecting kids… even at college level. Too much of a culture shock.
  - dianeravitch says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 10:28 am
    
    Rudy,
    
    But the rewards of a teacher are so much greater!
  - Rudy J Schellekens says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 10:32 am
    
    What, have irresponsible parents yelling at you because their child is failing, and it all your fault? Be deluged by paperwork, meetings?
    No, thank you. I would rather do what I do, have a district wide impact (and still get blamed when things “fail” because people do not have the time to learn what they need to know to use their technology, because after all, PD is not considered important…)
  - gitapik says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 2:11 pm
    
    I wasn’t always a teacher. I was a manager for years. I’ve worked blue collar non-union jobs as well. I know the good, bad, and in between of my job.
    
    The fact that you wouldn’t want to have to deal with obstructive parents is understandable, Rudy. Can’t say that I enjoy it very much when it crops up. It’s one of the many reasons that people don’t want to enter the profession. It’s a very, very hard job that changes from day to day.
    
    You’re right: without continuing contributions from union members, our pension system will be gone in less than a decade. I’m sure that’s on some of the “reformer’s” minds.
    
    I think that part of what we’re seeing today started with the “no taxes” mantra of the ’80s and how it’s expanded since that time so that it now so heavily benefits the wealthiest to the exclusion of the majority. Less taxes means less money that’s available for public services. Another point that some of the “reformers” might be more than a little aware of, as well.
    
    The ’70s saw magazines titled, “Us” and “We”. The ’80s saw magazines titled “Self” and “Me”. There hasn’t been much of a change in mindset since that shift. We’re reaping what has been sown. And it’s not much of a crop for a lot of us.
  - Rudy Schellekens says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 2:32 pm
    
    It was the lack of foresight rather than the “no taxes…” When Medicare was put into place in 1966, average lifespan was about 67. Now, it’s about 83. Same with SS – lifespans were much shorter – apart from which, SS started with a major pay-out to people who never contributed. And, it was never intended to be the sole source of income for retirement.
    I’m all for losing the cap on SS contributions. To me, that is about the “fairest share” I can think of.
  - gitapik says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 12:05 am
    
    I know. My dad and I used to talk about this. No way to know of the advances in health care during thw inception of the program.
  - Doug says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 9:30 am
    
    Yes people live longer but the country is also 100x more productive. There is more wealth per capita now than in 1967.
    
    The problem is distribution not wealth creation. The 1% have not hogged all the productivity benefit like this since the guided age.
    
    The 99% need to stop fighting each other and train all of their fire on the 1%.
  - Rudy Schellekens says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 9:58 am
    
    Or: Work as hard as the people like Gates, Buffet, Jobs etc have done to make it to where they are. The American Dream (If you work hard, you can make it big) has become the American Nightmare (If I work hard, make it big, others try to take it away).
    Rather than admire people who come up with a great idea and make it work, we have come to a point where it has become a plan for robbery.
    
    And this 1% nonsense? Look at where the biggest amount of money comes from when it comes to taxes paid. Look at the amount of money that 1% spends on hospitals etc., research institutes. This morning, a reference was made to Carnegie, and how he used his wealth to built libraries everywhere.
    
    Does some of that money come from less than honorable dealings? Probably. Maybe.
    Nobel created a product that would cause enormous pain and hurt. He was upset enough about it, that he used part of his fortune to create…
    
    Balanced views…
  - gitapik says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 1:53 pm
    
    I have nothing whatsoever against someone profiting from the concept and implementation of an original idea. I also am a firm believer in hard work being rewarded. I know that I work my tail off. I might not make the kind of money that Gates does…but I do work very hard and am happy to collect my paycheck.
    
    While it’s true that the top 1% does contribute the lions share to our tax base, it’s also true that they can much more than just afford to give more than they are, nowadays. In fact, there was a time when their taxes were much higher and we, as a nation, benefitted greatly as a result.
    
    I don’t see how anyone can think that these entrepreneurs would suffer from being taxed more than they are now. They’re still going to have a LOT of money left over at the end of the day.
  - Rudy Schellekens says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 1:58 pm
    
    And what is wrong with that? is it just jealousy with you? Is it the idea that YOU should not have to work as hard for your money, since THEY have so much more left over at the end of the month?
    
    Rich people from France are moving out of the country because their taxes are so high. And now what is accomplished?
  - gitapik says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 3:06 pm
    
    No, Rudy. My thoughts are detailed in my replies here. Your characterization of my being “jealous” might possibly be a stereotype you’ve developed as a means of minimizing the legitimacy of what’s being said that differs with your views. I don’t know, really. But I do know that I’m not “jealous”. Whether you want to believe it or not.
    
    A lot of wealthy people threatened to leave California when they raised taxes. Most stayed put. Regardless, though; it’s a pretty disgusting state of affairs when an individual is able to say, “I’m above your laws and needs. Got mine and you’ll only get what I’m willing to give back”. Especially when that person made all that money using the system that made it all possible.
  - Rudy Schellekens says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 4:16 pm
    
    And many, many many of those who “struck it rich…” are giving back, by the billions, each year.
    http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/which-americans-are-most-generous-and-to-whom/?_r=0
    
    Sure, some of them will be misers no matter what. But when I hear that Gates and others have committed themselves to giving the largest share of their wealth away after their death (you may not like the causes, but that’s not the topic), that should say something!
  - gitapik says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 10:52 pm
    
    The fact that people of means give a larger percentage of their income to charities than those with less is really no great surprise. It just means that they can actually spare the cash. Not exactly the case for a lot of us who are doing what we can to get by while hopefully saving up for something special.
    
    It’s not so much a question of whether a person is generous or miserly with their fortune. I have a problem with living off of the whim and largesse of the super rich. Too much power and influence in the hands of too few for my tastes.
    
    Gates saw fit to ram the CCSS down our throats without much input from anybody either inside or outside the sphere of K-12 education. He just decided that things needed to be changed and used his money and influence to make it happen the way he saw fit. He showed no regard for some of the most prestigious names in the fields of education and child psychology or to the rank and file who have to actually implement the curriculum and testing that resulted from his “investments”. This is the kind of “generosity” that I and many others could easily do without.
  - gitapik says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 2:28 pm
    
    There’s also the amount of power that comes in tandem with these immense accumulations of wealth. There are news stories that have been axed or “pared down” on NPR because they didn’t fit the agenda of some of their more well heeled donors. It’s not just about the money.
  - gitapik says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 2:17 pm
    
    “…I would rather do what I do, have a district wide impact (and still get blamed when things “fail” because people do not have the time to learn what they need to know to use their technology, because after all, PD is not considered important…)”
    
    I hear you on that one. I’ve facilitated PDs in tech and positive behavior supports. It doesn’t matter how good the presentation is if the people watching it don’t get the chance to put the new knowledge, hardware, and software to good, practical use on a daily basis.
Rudy J Schellekens says:

November 28, 2016 at 4:23 pm

https://www.mackinac.org/pension

Describes the problem: Only SIXTY-one percent funding. This is a reality, not the making of any one party. Look at the offered solutions

Reply
- Cheryl Matas says:
  
  November 28, 2016 at 5:07 pm
  
  Sorry, Mackinac Center. The MPSERS fund is growing after long years of recession and a less than favorable return on investments. The hybrid program is 100% funded. This is merely yet another attack by your boss to dismantle public schools. You know exactly what will happen a few years down the road with no new contributions. Also, the state’s contribution of 7% is massively below any private corporation. I know your game. So do most Michiganders.
  
  Reply
  - Cheryl Matas says:
    
    November 28, 2016 at 5:09 pm
    
    Oh, he’s – and the constant raiding of the school fund to cover gaps in other budget items by your buddies.
  - gitapik says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 10:13 am
    
    This is an interesting conversation. Sometimes it’s not so easy to find the core truth.
    
    I’m getting the idea that Cheryl might know Rudy (?), whose posts show some knowledge of the system. I think Doug’s post, above, has some very good points to it:
    
    “Yes people live longer but the country is also 100x more productive. There is more wealth per capita now than in 1967.
    
    The problem is distribution not wealth creation. The 1% have not hogged all the productivity benefit like this since the guided age.
    
    The 99% need to stop fighting each other and train all of their fire on the 1%.”
    
    Thumbs up, Doug.
    
    I want to respect and listen to everyone’s ideas. My goal is to uncover the truth (whether it’s simple or complex) and find a way to use it for the good of all. It seems that our society has gotten off track in this regard.
  - Rudy Schellekens says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 10:40 am
    
    Unless I’m wrong, I do not know anyone on this list.
  - gitapik says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 11:26 am
    
    Sorry about that, Rudy. I think she must have been referring to the Mackinac Center then.
- Jon Awbrey says:
  
  November 28, 2016 at 5:20 pm
  
  For the benefit of folks outside the Amenable Pensioninsula, the Big Mac Center®(R) for Pirate Politics is “Pure” MIchigan’s home-grown clone of ALEC.
  
  Reply
  - Rudy Schellekens says:
    
    November 28, 2016 at 6:02 pm
    
    Are the numbers correct? If so, the source does not matter.
    Illinois has been led by democrats for most of the last thirty years and has about the worst funded public pension.
- Markeymon says:
  
  November 28, 2016 at 5:50 pm
  
  That is a load of you know what. The legislature changed the system so new teachers are no longer part of it. It can’t be funded properly because republicans set it up that way.
  
  Reply
- Steve K says:
  
  November 29, 2016 at 7:33 am
  
  And why? 2008. The crash exacerbated pension issues. That coupled with the fact that states had long been abdicating their legal responsibility to fund them.
  
  Here’s the truth: we’re engaged in a race to the bottom. Whenever someone takes a hit, everyone says: “you should have it as bad as me.” They never say: “I should have it as good as you.” The result is that employers laugh at us as we fight each other for the table scraps while they consume the meal.
  
  We should be rallying for greater benefits rather than trying to bring everyone down.
  
  And Rudy, you referenced the Mackinac Center for Public Policy. I don’t know if you’re familiar with them but calling them right-wing is generous. That is an egregiously biased source.
  
  Reply
  - FLERP! says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 9:30 am
    
    I don’t know about Michigan in particular, but for a lot of states, a big part of the problem also stems from big retroactive benefit enhancements in the 2000s that were billed as cost-neutral.
Abigail Shure says:

November 28, 2016 at 4:32 pm

They are looking for a solution here in Jersey. Do they make vegetarian cat food?

Reply
- Rudy J Schellekens says:
  
  November 28, 2016 at 4:45 pm
  
  What is your opinion of the National Council for Teacher Quality?
  
  Reply
  - dianeravitch says:
    
    November 28, 2016 at 5:06 pm
    
    Rudy,
    
    Google what I wrote about NCTQ. I was there at the creation.
  - gitapik says:
    
    December 1, 2016 at 2:23 pm
    
    Here’s one link from 2012:
    
    https://dianeravitch.net/2012/05/23/what-is-nctq/
    
    The entire post was prescient…including this passage:
    
    “Conservatives, and I was one, did not like teacher training institutions. We thought they were too touchy-feely, too concerned about self-esteem and social justice and not concerned enough with basic skills and academics.”
    
    David Coleman’s infamous quote, detailing how people don’t give a s*#t what you think or feel, comes to mind, but so does something much more current:
    
    I was listening to an interview with a Republican strategist soon after Trump won the election. He was saying, with great conviction, that we’ve had four decades of people focusing on how they “feel” as opposed to paying attention to “the facts”. He gave Black Lives Matter as an example, saying that we need to start paying attention to “the facts” and stop all the talk about how things make us feel. He didn’t say what the facts were regarding Black Lives Matter, however.
    
    I’m seeing this everywhere. It’s the mantra and reasoning in education behind taking away recess, phys ed, art, music and anything else that’s creative and enjoyable. Replacing those “touchy feely and fun” areas with “real work” that will elevate test scores and make the kids “college and career ready”. From the kindergarten years. Nose to the grindstone.
    
    What is it that makes people in authority want to scrap everything that’s in place in order to create change? It’s one thing to say that we need to attach more importance to understanding informational text, math, and the sciences. But to brand everything else as unimportant is, to my way of thinking, a huge disservice to the kids.
- KrazyTA says:
  
  November 28, 2016 at 7:07 pm
  
  For all you fanboys and fangirls of rheephorm that constantly intone the mantra “studies show” in order to justify heaping up mountains of $tudent $ucce$$, a “lesson in safe logic” [Phil Ochs] regarding the NCTQ.
  
  This blog, posting, 6-24-2013, “Aaron Pallas: The Trouble with the NCTQ Ratings of Ed Schools”—
  
  [start]
  
  Aaron Pallas is a sociologist at Teachers College, Columbia University, who is one of our nation’s best scholars of education. He is quick to spot Bunkum.
  
  He said this about the report on teacher preparation programs by NCTQ:
  
  “To be sure, few of us relish being put under the microscope. But it’s another matter entirely to be seen via a funhouse mirror. My institution, Teachers College at Columbia University, didn’t receive a summary rating of zero to four stars in the report, but the NCTQ website does rate some features of our teacher-prep programs. I was very gratified to see that our undergraduate elementary and secondary teacher-education programs received four out of four stars for student selectivity. Those programs are really tough to get into—nobody gets admitted. And that’s not hyperbole; the programs don’t exist.
  
  “That’s one of the dangers of rating academic programs based solely on documents such as websites and course syllabi. You might miss something important—like “Does this program exist?”
  
  Pallas noted that the Washington Post published an editorial praising the report. He commented: “I look forward to the Post instructing their restaurant reviewer, Tom Sietsema, to rate restaurants based on their online menus rather than several in-person visits to taste the food.”
  
  [end]
  
  Link: https://dianeravitch.net/2013/06/24/aaron-pallas-the-trouble-with-the-nctq-ratings-of-ed-schools/
  
  😎
  
  Reply
Cheryl Matas says:

November 28, 2016 at 5:03 pm

The problem in Michigan is there is no problem, except to Dick Devos. The new hybrid program that let new hires enroll in a 401(k) and contribute to the pension fund is 100% funded. This is just another bald-faced attempt to dismantle public schools led by the very deep pocketed Devoses. They will get their way. They support many GOP legislators here.

Reply
Joe says:

November 28, 2016 at 5:34 pm

How dare teachers have pensions, the nerve. And for good measure, the GOP is determined to destroy Medicare and Social Security.

Reply
- Rudy Schellekens says:
  
  November 28, 2016 at 6:12 pm
  
  Pensions are good. No one denies that. But pockets are only so deep. When you get to the point you don’t have enough people paying in, then what?
  Smaller classes call for more teachers. More teachers place a heavier burden on budgets. Simple math tells you.
  Sounds like social security…
  
  Reply
  - Joel Herman says:
    
    November 28, 2016 at 11:44 pm
    
    Rudy Schellekens
    
    Rudy you need a little help here . Pensions are not a gift . They re not charity. They have little to do with the ability of future generations of workers to pay for previous generations of workers .
    
    They are bennifits in lieu of wages and should be funded on a pay check to paycheck basis as part of the employees pay package.
    
    All plans rely on investments to gin up the returns . However those investments and and contributions are supposed to be fiduciarily sound with the trustees personally liable for abuse . The Plan I have, a multi employer plan was till a few short years ago 93% funded meaning that a meager return should pay 93% of retirement benefits. It is currently at 85 % as bennifits were increased.
    
    Single employer Plans have used Bankruptcy laws to skate their responsibilities.
    
    Public pensions are a bit different the laws never assumed that Public officials would be anything but honest. Never thought that Politicians would not bargain in good faith and adequately fund the pensions of their employees. Thus there is less supervision . Instead of adequate funding many localities neglected to make contributions and in turn relied on astronomical returns to compensate for dollars spent elsewhere. As the markets crashed they ran into troubles.
    
    Social Security another myth. Minor adjustments could be made to extend the solvency 75 years into the future .Changes had already been made in the 80s . increasing retirement age to 66 to account for changes in the workforce.
    
    But if nothing were done when the plan has to go into reserves. It will still be able to pay those benefits at 80% for the foreseeable future. The problem that may exist, is that the funds have been looted . A 93 % top marginal rate should solve that in short order. (figure that out)
    
    http://cepr.net/press-center/press-releases/dean-baker-s-statement-on-the-2016-social-security-trustees-report
  - Rs says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 8:05 am
    
    And I am negative about this country? My stars, YOU should move if you have so little to no confidence.
  - Doug says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 10:49 am
    
    In Canada every single public teacher is part of a DEFINED BENEFIT PLAN. The Supreme Court agrees these are deferred wages and cannot be tampered with lightly.
    
    Canada is not like Sweden in social democratic terms but Canada looks like what the USA would look like if the Democrats won at all levels 3/4 of the time.
    
    Canada has 2 1/2 parties. -a 30-40%Romney party, a 30-40% Clinton party and a 20-25% Bernie Sanders party. This pulls us a bit more to the left.
    
    Canadians were polled on the Clinton Trump choice. 77% Clinton. One prof put it to me that Canada is very similar to the USA with the “Old South” removed. Actually very accurate.
  - Joe says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 12:03 am
    
    Social Security is in good shape, it is not in crisis. It has $2.7 TRILLION in assets, it is an American success story. It has not failed to pay benefits for almost 80 years through wars, recessions, stock market fluctuations, the great recession of 2008 (almost depression), GOP nonfeasance and malfeasance against SS. It can make full payments through 2033 and thereafter pay about 78% of benefits, IF nothing is done. The solution is to raise or eliminate the SS wage tax cap..problem solved for generations. 401Ks are the scam with administrative fees and fluctuations with the stock market. 401Ks were decimated with the 2008 meltdown, not SS. Pete Peterson and the billionaires would love to get their paws on all that money, they want to privatize it and eventually destroy it. I hope SS can survive Trump and the host of GOP vampires who lust to Rheeform SS into oblivion. Trump claims he wants to keep SS strong but he lies like a feelthy canine.
  - Joel Herman says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 12:48 am
    
    Joe
    
    Time to start printing those PROTEST signs and bumper stickers . .
    Keep the Government out of My Social Security and Medicare.
    .
    The ones you used to see a Tea Party rallies
  - Norwegian Filmmaker says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 7:17 am
    
    Rudy,
    
    Do you receive a pension for your years as a chaplain in the military? And if so how much is your allowance per month and for life? Are you old enough now to receive SS, and if so, how is much is your allowance per month?
  - Rudy J Schellekens says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 10:04 am
    
    No. Contract chaplains are not part of the Armed Forces. They are civilians with a limited time, based on the contract. Independent contractors.
    No., I am not old enough now to receive Social Security either here or in the Netherlands. Close, but not there…
  - Doug says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 11:29 am
    
    Happy teachers = good education
    
    Good education = rising standard of living for all.
    
    Rising standard of living = high quality education, health and pensions for all.
    
    What part of this is difficult?
  - Rudy Schellekens says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 11:43 am
    
    Your first line is what is wrong. PROFESSIONAL teachers – good education. Whether or not I am a happy employee, I am first and foremost a professional employee. I signed my name to a contract, and that means I will be the best employee I can be. If my performance is based on my happiness level, oy vey!
retired teacher says:

November 28, 2016 at 5:36 pm

While there may be legitimate reasons for pension shortfalls in some states, some shortfalls are due to gross mismanagement, and others are due to a deliberate move by Wall St to cause the pension crisis. This is all part of the same rhetoric that brought us the same “failing schools” mantra. Wall St. wins when they manufacture a crisis to which, of course, they have the solution. This usually involves moving large sums of public money into their pockets so there is less for retirees. http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/10/pension-funds-publicemployeeswallstreet.html

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- Threatened Out West says:
  
  November 28, 2016 at 6:23 pm
  
  Utah didn’t even HAVE a pension “problem,” and yet we still got shafted. Utah’s pension is fully funded and has been forever.
  
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- retired teacher says:
  
  November 28, 2016 at 6:37 pm
  
  Beyond regular pensions, teachers that have 403-B savings also get cheated. First, of all lots of them have high fees that they don’t need to reveal. They have less protection than IRAs, and when Obama passed his fiduciary ruling, 403-Bs were excluded from the protection. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/23/your-money/403-b-retirement-plans-fees-teachers.html
  
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notdeadyetweb says:

November 28, 2016 at 5:36 pm

dismantling public education and teacher’s protections is one of the last steps some rich republicans need to complete their ever increasing need to install and pro-business and anti-worker structure in this country. They’ve assisted in the dismantling of unions, although the unions themselves didn’t help matters much; they’re supporting school choice, vouchers and charters and trying to blame everything from the great flood to the crime rate on teachers. All in an attempt(may I say, not unsuccessful) to weaken the number of those in this country who vote for the democrats. Bust unions, reduce votes for democrats; put in charters and privatize education; don’t give teachers pensions and otherwise make their lives miserable, so they might consider working for charters or leave the profession altogether.
They, in my opinion, are cynically setting up this country so they will be rich and emotionally comfortable in it. I don’t believe that they really care about those outside their own social and economic class and most likely think most of us are losers.
Teachers in charters earn less than most teachers in public schools. Don’t know if a state’s educator pension program covers them.

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- retired teacher says:
  
  November 29, 2016 at 9:37 am
  
  If they crush the middle class, especially public employees, it will hurt them in the future and cause the economy to shrink. Fewer middle class people will be able to buy the goods and services, but Wall St. is all about today and a fast return on investments.
  
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Gordon Wilder says:

November 28, 2016 at 5:59 pm

I guess all of us who are retirees can sleep well tonight????

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JB2 says:

November 28, 2016 at 9:46 pm

A 401K, or 403B are both examples of defined CONTRIBUTION plans. But, a defined BENEFIT plan is a far superior product for the beneficiary. (Either the contribution is defined upfront, or the benefit is defined
when contributions end.) When states refer to shortfalls, they’re generally referring to defined benefit plans. And generally, a defined benefit plan that is 80% funded is considered fully-funded. Despite the
rumblings from various states, teachers should do everything possible to maintain the defined benefit plans and individually supplement same with a defined contribution plan.

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- Doug says:
  
  November 28, 2016 at 10:13 pm
  
  Canadian teachers all defined benefit plans. Some of the biggest pools of capital in the country.
  
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Joel Herman says:

November 28, 2016 at 10:49 pm

There is a proposal in congress that will further gut Multi Employer Defined Benefit Pension plans . Which do not apply to teachers . It is aimed at workers who may work
for several employers in the same Industry in the course of their careers. As happened in 14 (or 15?) it will be attached to a must pass (my ass ) budget reconciliation bill. It will be signed by POTUS . The last bill applied to plans that had already entered supervision.Like the Teamster Multi state plan. It gutted their pensions . This bill is aimed at Plans that have not enter the supervision of the PBGC. The Federal corporation who guarantees pensions .
It will give employers the right to take actions while the plans are still solvent
Multi Employer Plans must be 80 % funded. a much higher ratio than single employer plans. The guarantee by the PBGC is less than 40% vs the almost 80% for single employer plans.

This is now and has always been a war on Unions both public and private and the only reason it continues is the fear of winding up on the wrong end of a pitchfork has not existed for quite some time .

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- Norwegian Filmmaker says:
  
  November 29, 2016 at 7:19 am
  
  Is this part and parcel of what is known as the “Composite Law” legislation?
  
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Joel Herman says:

November 28, 2016 at 11:55 pm

Change of topic more to get nauseous about .

If you remember when we discussed Fake news . I said the narratives coming out of mainstream outlets is far more disturbing . Papers are printed by Publishers and Publishers have agenda’s.

This goes past narrative straight to outrage.

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/journalists_cry_foul_as_washington_post_publishes_20161127

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drext727 says:

November 29, 2016 at 8:16 am

Reblogged this on David R. Taylor-Thoughts on Education.

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drext727 says:

November 29, 2016 at 9:42 am

As we continue out trip down the rabbit hole, it is time for we the sheeple of education to take a stand before we lose everything. Before they convert all public education to vouchers, charter and virtual schools.

I really don’t see a scenario where they fire millions of teachers like they did the air traffic controllers in the 1980s.

Beginning September 5th, 2017 I propose a nationwide refusal to work until things change. Until schools are funded equitably and properly. Until charter schools are held accountable. Until for profit charters are illegal. Until smaller class sizes are mandatory for high poverty level school. Until an educator is with the interest of most children is Secretary of Education. Until, Until Until.

Somewhere in my mind I see tens of millions of kids out of school and parents having to find daycare and babysitting for them so that they can go to work. The more parents that are inconvenienced, then the more the more pressure they will put on their elected officials to fix the problem quickly rather than their slow unproductive pace they normally work at.

While we’re at it let’s go for passing term limits in office also.

I also realize that we have many educators that are timid and shy and would hardly make a wake in their bathtub. Those are the very people that will be taken advantage of the most and need to stand up for themselves now while there is still a chance for change.

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- gitapik says:
  
  November 29, 2016 at 1:44 pm
  
  One big obstacle is simply that of personal finances, which is often the reason for people seeming to be “faint of heart”.
  
  So many are living paycheck to paycheck. Without it they default on mortgages or can’t pay the rent. Can’t pay credit card bills. Can’t eat.
  
  But the potential increases as we near the point of a “no-win” situation for the rank and file.
  
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  - drext727 says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 2:12 pm
    
    The reason I suggest the first day after labor day is because most schools have reset their sick leave for the school year. Most have up to ten days they can take for the current year. Many have more days that have carried over.
    
    I too am living paycheck to paycheck and every year my take home decreases because the insurance premiums are always larger than my “raise”.
    
    In a best case scenario, after ten days of millions of children on the streets we will have their attention.
  - gitapik says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 4:16 pm
    
    Good strategy, drext727. A nationwide walkout would take some serious involvement from the AFT. Think Randi’s up to it?
  - Rudy Schellekens says:
    
    November 29, 2016 at 4:39 pm
    
    It would also wreak havoc on millions of families, increasing cost for day care, lost income etc.
  - gitapik says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 7:59 am
    
    I know. And it’s not said lightly, Rudy. How else do you make your point, though, when the system is hell bent on destroying you in the first place?
  - Rudy Schellekens says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 9:04 am
    
    Iowa teachers seem to be able to make their point without striking (illegal for teachers). Through communication, discussions, sometimes remediation…
    My son works for CPS (not as a teacher – yet), and has lived through a week long strike. He had to work, because parents were not able to find solutions for a WEEK. Irate parents were in HIS face because of the increased burden on their already low budgets.
    And now you want to do this nation wide?
  - Doug says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 1:35 pm
    
    The only reason Iowa teachers ever get a raise is because Chicago teachers can strike and sometimes do strike. This creates a market for higher wages in which Iowa (and Kansas) must participate or they will face a severe teacher shortage.
    
    The right-to-work state teachers get raises due to the teachers in right -to – strike states setting a bar that more or less, must be met.
    
    If you remove the right to strike from teachers without some form of binding arbitration, you will soon have either few teachers or Lowe quality teachers as night follows day.
    
    I hesitate to tout Canada again but we are lucky that our supreme court has decided that the right to free collective bargaining including the right to strike is a basic right comparable to a free press and the right to vote.
    
    I believe they are correct. I believe it is a basic human right. So does the UN.
  - Rudy Schellekens says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 1:56 pm
    
    Where do you get these ideas?? Iowa teacher income has been raised because the unions and Districts and State sat down, and worked it out.
    Across the river (Illinois) teachers get paid better than here – but they are not near as secure in their income as Iowa is.
  - gitapik says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 2:01 pm
    
    Here in NY State, we have the Taylor Law. It’s illegal for public employees to strike. Every day that we’re on strike is counted as a day and a half of our salaries that must be paid back to the state at the end of the strike.
  - Rudy Schellekens says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 2:02 pm
    
    wow… And yet, labor agreements are reached, pay does increase
  - dianeravitch says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 2:30 pm
    
    Pay should increase for professional educators. What’s wrong with that?
  - Rudy Schellekens says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 3:56 pm
    
    Absolutely totally nothing. I am as much a professional in my area as any teacher. More so, because I am fairly over-educated for my particular job – but that’s okay. I can go home in the evening, and have no worries about heart breaking midnight calls.
    
    The point had nothing to do with whether or not the people should/should not get paid. The argument was: The system works in Iowa without strikes. The ONLY losers in a strike are the people it impacts: Parents and their children, in some cases, 362,000 kids and their families or more. It has an impact on businesses whose employee does not show up for work because they have to stay home, watching their children for an indeterminate amount of time. Those employees may lose their jobs if a strike goes on too long.
    Who is going to solve that problem?
  - Doug says:
    
    November 30, 2016 at 5:38 pm
    
    Total nonense. Iowa teachers would get nothing if other teachers were not able to strike. Students do better in states with string union with the ability to strike.
  - drext727 says:
    
    December 1, 2016 at 8:06 am
    
    Rudy,
    
    It is not only about teachers getting raises and appropriate benefits. In Texas, we constantly get “raises” that are quickly offset by health insurance premium increases that are greater than the amount of the raise resulting in a net pay cut.
    
    It is also about the total lack of respect for the profession. After all, Trump just named a not educator, charter school supporter. Educators do not have a voice at the table when education policies are being developed.
    
    All public education policies are being developed by politicians and businessmen, not by educators.
  - Rudy Schellekens says:
    
    December 1, 2016 at 8:56 am
    
    Don’t blame trump for something that was already there. The loss of respect for teachers is but part of a general loss of respect for authority.
  - drext727 says:
    
    December 1, 2016 at 10:40 am
    
    I only hold Trump responsible for naming a non-educator, pro-charter school advocate as the next Secretary of Education
  - Rudy Schellekens says:
    
    December 1, 2016 at 10:52 am
    
    Yet, you tied him to the loss of respect for teachers…
  - drext727 says:
    
    December 1, 2016 at 1:12 pm
    
    Trump by his own admission has not respect for teachers …”I beat up my teacher when I was in school”
    
    I have decided you must be a teenager based on the fact that you must always have the last words.
  - dianeravitch says:
    
    December 1, 2016 at 1:13 pm
    
    Not only the last word, but again and again and again.
  - drext727 says:
    
    December 1, 2016 at 1:18 pm
    
    yes, yes, yes….
ciedie aech says:

November 29, 2016 at 1:23 pm

Michigan and many other states who let their vote go far-right with this election should NOT BE SURPRISED (though they will surely argue that they are) when Trump, an avowed business opportunist, opens up pensions to those who would stop guardedly shepherding public money and, instead, haphazardly gamble with it.

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rwieck says:

November 30, 2016 at 1:22 am

http://wfpl.org/teachers-group-sues-state-for-underfunding-pensions/ [http://wfpl.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Money-e1444335540211.jpg]

Teachers Group Sues State For Underfunding Kentucky Pensions wfpl.org The Teachers Retirement Legal Fund says leaders violated state law as well as the U.S. and Kentucky constitutions by not setting aside enough money for the Kentucky Teachers Retirement System.

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rwieck says:

December 15, 2016 at 10:17 am

FAMOUS LEGAL CASE, ROSE v. COUNCIL (1989) TO BE USED TO SLOW CHARTERS IN KY.

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