In the aftermath of the “Hamilton” incident, there were many reactions as to the appropriateness of the cast giving a polite statement to the Vice-President-elect about their hope that the new administration would represent all Americans. Donald Trump was angry and demanded an apology. Pence said he wasn’t troubled and enjoyed the show and recommended it to others. I’m with Pence on this one. His response was just right. In this country, people heckle those in power. As it happened, the cast did not heckle or jeer. Their statement was polite.
Trump tweeted that they were “very rude.”
Here are Ken Bernstein’s thoughts on the matter.
If anyone wants to get rid of their tickets to the show, there are many eager to buy them. The show is sold out on Broadway until August 2017.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
“The theater must be always be a safe and special place.” Talk about LOL. Guess he’s only familiar with Disney musicals; never heard of the idea that theater must provoke. Shakespeare, Ibsen, Brecht, Beckett, Ionesco, Dürrenmatt, Frisch, Shepard…those names just come to mind immediately. I’m sure many of you can come up with many, many more names if you give it 30 seconds’ thought. Just when you think Trump is not capable of writing/saying anything more banal. I guess we just need to give it few minutes for another low. I miss the intellectual heft of George W. Bush already.
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Thank you, GregB! The theater is not a safe place. It is a place where you may be entertained, enlightened, challenged, engaged, enraged.
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Many people are so worried about the portent of major pogroms in the US, and that means not only anti Semitic behaviors, but anti people of color, anti Democrats, anti women,…anti anything Trump and his crew of fascists come up with.
The actors in Hamilton, a play about American history, are mainly people of color, and feel they are the cross hairs of the Trump/Bannon gun sites…they had every right to petition, politely, the VP to save them, to save us all, given their unique opportunity of having him in attendance at their performance.
If you are a White Christian, you probably cannot even imagine this gut level fear…and you probably don’t care, so you can easily condemn these actors. The times they are a changin’…Heil Bannon.
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Yeah, provoked through the play it self. What the cast of Hamilton did was unprofessional and moronic. People should not get called out at a place where they simply come to enjoy a show not to engage in political discussion.
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When you choose to be a public person, such a leader of the US, you are expected to listen to your constituents wherever they find themselves.
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Perhaps, but within reason. If a bunchbof Trump supporters did this with Obama or Hillary whilst they attended a play I bet your reaction would be different.
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Actually, if it was done with the same degree of courtesy, I would have no complaint.
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I just watched the statement again to see if I was missing something. I wasn’t. It was neither unprofessional or moronic. It was a plea to the vice-president elect to be treated equally and with respect. It was an attempt to deliver a message that they will never have the chance to do again. Or do you think people with that message will be listened to by the incoming administration? Would they even get an appointment to speak?
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There is a time and a place for these antics, the theatre is not one of them.
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The theater is exactly the right place for antics. If not there, where? On the street? Who would hear you?
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GregB,
You are exactly right. If the Hamilton cast had not addressed Pence, quite respectfully, when else would anyone have the chance to tell him what they said? Never.
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Just when is the time and place for these “antics”? Guess you overlooked my initial comment about the duty of theater to provoke discussion of ideas.
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The play “Hamilton” is not only a very engaging musical, it is a political statement.
It reimagines the founding of our nation with a cast of mostly black and brown actors. The music and lyrics are wonderful. The script is thoughtful and even learned. Anyone who sees the show will want to learn more about American history; not the canned stuff in the textbooks, but the real lives of Hamilton, Burr, Washington, Jefferson, and other founders.
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Over tea, Greg, when they are invited to the White House.
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thenightshiftguy: I am not sure that the unprofessional and moronic elect really realizes how dumb his remarks are. Perhaps his wife wrote the tweet or is at least telling him what to say as part of her anti-bullying role.
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That is probably unfair to his wife. She is obviously thrilled to be dragged into his little fantasy world.
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2old2teach, tea remark: You almost killed me. Never should read while taking a sip of a drink. Wrong pipe, coughing, etc. Didn’t have to call EMS, though.
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I have done to much sputtering in anger lately. Glad to make you sputter with laughter. I have a feeling we are going to need all the laughter we can stand short of hypoxia inducing spasms.
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Trump loves stuff like this, anything that transforms debates over serious issues into personal arguments about whether somebody was or was not rude. Start from the premise that the cast was rude. Some people were rude. So what?
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I agree. Maybe he is just trying to distract us. What we really should be talking/tweeting about is the fact that he settled his Trump University lawsuit, something he said he’d never do because it only encourages others to sue. Hmm, now there’s an idea. Does anybody happen to know one of the hundreds of people who would like to sue him?
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FLERP! and Michele Hamilton: quite so.
😎
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For those who define the cast’s behavior as rude, how do you define Mr. Trump’s behavior of the past year? Not to mention some of his behavior of prior years……
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Beyond rude, Karen..rather insane.privileged,aggressive behavior. In a free country, under the First Amendment, We the People can revile the leadership as it reviles constituents.
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I am okay with them engaging in a duel if they feel it needs that resolution. Or they can go with Pence’s reaction since it was he who was “unsafe” (doesn’t say much for the secret service if he wasn’t). Trump has probably forgotten by now anyway. It provided a distraction from his lie about saving Ford jobs so he doesn’t need it now that’s blown over. He moved on to SNL bashing. If trump’s followers boycott it just provides seats for others so no concern there. I’d love to see it done with devices in the cast hands and tweets going out all through the show. It might be cool to incorporate the tweet from trump right into it. I figure they are going ot work it out just fine and doesn’t trump have some work to do or something?
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You really have to wonder whether Donny Trump tweets all that stuff himself or whether he has some other six-year-old do it for him.
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I was unhappy with the Hamilton cast action for 3 reasons.
1. As an artist and an imbiber of the arts: the work stands on its own. I do not approve of the performers (or author or whoever) telling the audience how to respond. This undermines the work.
2. As a social human being, I object to a group on an elevated stage singling out a member of the [lower-situated] audience in any way (except perhaps if that person had heckled the performance). It’s cowardly & taking advantage– it’s bullying. The only reason Don Rickles got away with it was w/humor. Absent humor, it’s prissy & condescending.
3. As a New Yorker who treasures the theater, I regret that the Hamilton cast has given the vast MSM audience yet another confirmation of their belief that the bi-coastal liberal intelligentsia thinks them lesser-than & needing moral correction.
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“. . . the Hamilton cast has given the vast MSM audience yet another confirmation of their belief that the bi-coastal liberal intelligentsia thinks them lesser-than & needing moral correction.”
This flyover rural Show Me Stater has always considered the MSM to be part of that “bi-coastal liberal [and regressive] intelligentsia”.
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I totally concur. Well stated!
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I’ll have to disagree with you on this one. I just saw an ABC News report where a person on the street mentioned that the performance should not have been “political.” I doubt I will ever see Hamilton, but isn’t a musical/play about a Founding Father supposed to provoke political discussion? Isn’t civics by its very nature inclusive of political ideas? If you have strong beliefs and have the opportunity to speak truth to power, shouldn’t you take it? This was an action approved by the cast, not an individual.
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Now you shock me, Bethree.
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Golly, I thought Rude was the new Refreshing …
Turnabout is not a fair play?
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Absolutely! These PC Republics act like comment police when they see or hear words that don’t conform to their narrow way of thinking.
Stop with the PC policing!
Typical over-sensitive cons!
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I hope Trump doesn’t spend the next four years responding to every artist, comedian, satirist, playwright, or actor who expresses a view opposed to Trump. He won’t have time to do anything else.
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Maybe we should hope for that.
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Diane
He will have plenty of time anyway. I doubt he has any ideas beyond the few glib phrases he used in the campaign. Pence is president.
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This was neither the appropriate place OR time for this, particularly when VP-Elect Pence and his relatives were a captive audience. It was shameful and IMO could be consider to be an example of bullying (even though I realize that the vast majority of readers of this blog won’t agree).
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All these people in government are on the same level as their constituents…they are not kings and queens…they are not to be revered…they work for US. We pay them…and too often they are worthless to us and should be fired, without due process.
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They weren’t a “captive audience.” Curtain calls were done. The show was over. Pence was leaving. Bad argument.
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While he was being booed, Pence said he turned to his daughter and said, “This is what freedom sounds like.” This was encouraging to me: it doesn’t sound like he’s about to go full fascist.
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“Daddy, why does freedom hate us?”
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I’m sorry, Diane, I love ya, but the fact that his mere presence can rattle them like this shows that they have already given their power away. It is literally impossible to make great decisions from a place of panic or rage. Forget about class or politeness, this shines a light on their own personal weakness. Not helpful.
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James,
I agree with you. The cast of the most successful play on Broadway is weak and powerless as compared to Mike Pence and Donald Trump. By their action, they offered a civics lesson. In our country, the weak must struggle to be heard by the powerful.
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The double standard never ends. Trump thumbs his nose at every rule of custom, decorum, protocol, if not yet provably law, and his groupies cheer him on as being a “different kind of candidate”. Well, his #2 just got treated to a different kind of theatre and they can’t take what they dish out.
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I don’t know, I’m not sure if ‘double standard’ is convincing when it comes to shooting one’s mouth off. I would not have been happy for example if either Bernie or Hillary chose to respond in kind to over-the-top Republican lambastes.
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That is the definition of double standard.
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The fact that it is ever more apparent the they (I would say he) can’t take what they dish out is actually power in the hands of those who would goad him on. Successful politics demands a very thick skin.
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When Joe Wilson yells “You lie” as President Obama delivers the State of the Union he is being rude. When the cast of Hamilton politely addresses the Vice President elect with a plea for respect and tolerance that is protected speech under the Bill of Rights. Already I can see that the mainstream media is normalizing the incoming President when it has been clear since at least the beginning of the campaign last year that Trump is a fascist. His tweets, his choice of advisers like Bannon and General Flynn – it’s all very “Seven Days in May”. It’s nice that Pence acted the gentleman but that was an act – he’s no gentleman. Just look at his record on gay rights in Congress and Indiana. I can’t wait to see all those coal mining jobs Trump creates for the fools who voted for him and are now about to lose their medical insurance.
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YES….
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If given a normal candidate for the presidency the actions cast would perhaps be rude .
Anyone who associates with that candidate now the President elect. Is no better than that vile individual . Hats off to the cast. Demagoguery and fascist leaning are never to be normalized. If conservatives feel offended. I would be glad to purchase their tickets at a steep discount.
Trump has done nothing and given no indication that he will moderate his vulgar stands. Yet he is being normalized.
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of the cast
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Joel,
Stick with your principles. Trump cannot be normalized.
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He will never be normalized by me . However the corporate media is already at it . They insist on putting on surrogates to be “fair and balanced ” Tonight it was Micheal Ledeen to normalize Flynn .
That is like putting Goebbels on to normalize Himmler. Can i be any clearer.
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YES again…
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Let’s not debate etiquette here. It was an historic and utterly unprecedented moment. It was arguably necessary, a moral imperative, whether appropriate at some lesser level or not.
We were very rude when we dumped that tea.
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“We were very rude when we dumped that tea.”
Chuckle.
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Well, Trump is way rude and offensive. I think the cast was polite.
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At least the audience did not yell “Lock him up, lock him up!” No one in the cast encouraged the audience to boo. It was a spontaneous reaction to a hideous election cycle resulting in the worst possible candidate to become president in my memory, though Nixon is not far behind. If you want to go hundreds of years back, you can find worse presidents than Trump. You know, the massacre of the native peoples, their forced removal and slavery.
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“You know, the massacre of the native peoples, their forced removal and slavery AND/OR ORDERING THE EXTRA-JUDICIAL KILLING OF AMERICAN CITIZENS, EH.
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I knew that was coming, EH.
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Last night the govt. enforcers blasted the Native American Water Protectors for hours with power hoses in freezing weather, shot them with rubber bullets, and tear gassed them. People had to be carted to the hospital and one elder had a heart attack. This is American Exceptionalism??? Once again stealing Native American land for oil profit is ok??? Once again preying on people, Citizens, of color is OK????
What is wrong with you Right Wingers who protect hate language fallout from bigots like the KKK who love Trump/Pence, but denounce citizens who petition their elected leaders for fair treatment?
Trump choices for his Cabinet have openly reported their acceptance of torture, but this is torture of our own innocent people. Is this what you prefer to peaceful protest in a theater, when the show has ended???
Damn right this brave theater group should have had the audacity, to very respectfully say to the VP that we all deserve respect and equal treatment under the law.
What sick comments I see here…scares me…reminds me of the “good Germans” who watched their neighbors being hauled off to the gas chambers and then stole all their belongings. We are only a minimal distance on the continuum to a fascistic takeover of America.
‘Meetup groups’ have been forming in the past few weeks for “only Europeans who love being white and love their culture” ( I have gotten their advertising)…and you can find them online. Trump/Pence have put their imprimatur on this now openly bigoted behavior. These elected leaders are not to be given any quarter, anywhere, any time. People with peaceful motives who live by the Golden Rule cannot roll over for this or our democratic society is doomed.
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“What sick comments I see here…scares me…reminds me of the “good Germans” who watched their neighbors being hauled off to the gas chambers and then stole all their belongings. ”
It scared me even more to remember that it was much closer to home than the Germans. We didn’t gas Japanese Americans, but we did watch as they were taken away to internment camps, and too many of us stole their property.
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Not sure to whom you are directing this post, Ellen. Please clarify.
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“It was a spontaneous reaction to a hideous election cycle resulting in the worst possible candidate to become president in my memory”
Yes, this is exactly how I take it. I may not like it, but I sure understand it. I still would have preferred it if they had completely ignored the worm.
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They knew Pence would be in the audience the night before the performance, and the author of the play wrote what was a beautiful nuanced statement to make after the all agreed to do this. This is real participatory democracy. I hope many more instances like this occur and grab the attention of the media so as to show the entire world how many Americans feel about this administration.
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A friend who had acted in Caberet some years ago told me teaching after the election of Trump seemed surreal. Was that a reaction that was brought about by the message of that other famous Broadway play? Did the actors of Hamilton remember being in Caberet? What will we do when Civil Rights are violated? Will we wait for the Crystal Night? Or will we speak our minds, preserving the right of dissent that is real freedom? I am happy for all to discuss issues openly, with rancor. The more we talk, the less we shoot.
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Apt to mention Caberet. Seems that could well be the future of our nation.
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It is AMERICA which must be a safe place for its residents. Mr. Pence’s intentions are to strip lgbtq members after their civil rights, and women of their reproductive rights, whileTrump plans to deport millions! Rude? RIDE?! Who has brought national discourse to a gross, unseemly level day in and day out for one and a half years–the cast of Hamilton?! I think not!!!!
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Respectful and necessary free speech is the foundation of a democracy’s. Not only is the cast of Hamilton portraying the beginnings of our great nation as wonderful actors and actresses, they also as citizens of this Great Democracy are living examples of freedom of speech, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Thank them for lifting a beautiful voice in our republic.
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When I have to pay hundreds of dollars to go see a play, I would not expect or appreciate a political statement at the end of the show – no matter what party or candidate. It is a highly improper act…
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I have to say that this is such a silly post. Normally, the posts here are not silly, but this one is.
I mean, I am in the performing arts for a living. But this news of Hamilton and Pence is trivial (being that most people will never see the musical due to its outrageous cost) and there are far bigger fish to fry other than a few minutes of discord in an expensive, overpriced theatrical production.
Better look at Trump and Pence’s stand on SS, Medicare, and public education.
Trump is an impotent weakling who only perceives himself to be a king with slaves and subjects. The real kings here are the GOP cabinet members who are not his family and who will manipulate the living daylights out of him to fulfill THEIR agenda, which is a rather hideous one, I might add. Trump is no angel, and he is a monster himself, but he will never be an autonomous monster in this instance He is far too inexperienced in the D.C. realm and just plain ignorant. He might have bought himself a shiny new powerful car known as the presidency , but he will be strapped in the back seat as his cabinet members drive the car for him, navigating where it should go and how fast it should run.
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I think that we underestimate Trump at our own peril. My first reaction more than a year ago was to laugh. I thought for sure Trump’s run was a stunt, that he would drop out after having gained all that publicity and that, in any case he would be defeated by the other crowd of GOPers. But no, he hung in there. For sure, I thought, he could not beat a Bush, but he did. For sure he could not defeat hard right wing tea bag nuts but he did. Then I assumed that my fellow Americans would not be stupid enough to fall for all his bombast, vile remarks, lies heaped upon lies. I was wrong again. He defeated Hillary in the electoral college vote. I’m still in a state of shock. I’m here in America, there is no escape for me. It’s like being on the Titanic and seeing the iceberg coming, ready to rip all that we value to shreds. If Trump got this far, it’s safe to say that he is not a sock puppet to be totally manipulated by the cadre of far right wing government haters. I am all too painfully aware of what is going to happen to education, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the ACA, the rest of the social safety net, environmental and financial regulations, any regulations. None of this is silly to us who are aboard the SS Trump.
I cannot believe that people voted for this clown.
Just my rambling thoughts.
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Joe, I agree. I can’t believe that so many Americans elected this clown. He said again and again that the election was “rigged.” I think he was right.
I warned in late September that our voting machines could be hacked into by the Russians.
Given that they hacked into the DNC computers and into John Podesta’s email, why wouldn’t they hack into the touchscreen voting machines or other electronic voting machines? I wish the FBI would investigate, but knowing what Comey did only 11 days before the election, I don’t expect any investigation.
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Exactly dear filmmaker…this is another distraction from the horrible choices the Bannon/Trump-est fascists are choosing to lead the nation into infamy. Agree with Joe and Diane about it all. Reading about the genetic line of the Trump family, much is defective. Selling jewelry and clothing in the WH, killing wild animals for fun, following grandpa’s bigoted lead with the KKK, on and on.
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Yes.
In the last 48 hours China signed a trade deal with New Zealand, the Saudi’s agreed to a temporary ceasefire, Syria has agreed to peace talks. All the POTUS-elect commented on was the Hamilton cast needing to apologize for their shout out and SNL’s defrauding him of equal “side” time in satyrical skits.
Why isn’t the P.E.’s silence on major world events getting more critical analysis and media attention?
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Yes…P or B…and this happened last night, but the new leadership has not chosen to tweet about it…this Prez-Elect only tweets about actors and their behavior.
“Last night the Morton County Sheriff’s office put Standing Rock water protectors in grave danger. Hundreds were injured, including an elder who went into cardiac arrest and several people treated for rubber bullet injuries to the face. They used projectiles that ripped through people’s muscle tissue (warning: graphic photos).
Police fired water cannons at the protectors for at least six hours in below freezing temperatures, exposing them all to hypothermia. Medical professionals at the camp called for a cessation of this tactic because of the real threat that people could die. And Morton County law enforcement just kept drenching water protectors in water, tear gassing them, firing concussion grenades and using sonic weapons against them.
This is inhumane! They are willing to directly threaten people’s lives in order to protect profits for the oil industry. Enough is enough.
Call the Morton County Sheriff’s office and demand they end these life-threatening attacks on peaceful unarmed protectors immediately! Here is the number and a sample script:
Morton County Sheriff’s office number:
701-328-8118 & 701-667-3330 “
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Gee, it seems like it’ll be a whole 4 years of his having to Tweet the cast of SNL.
Seems they’re not gonna let up!
(Great end-of-show tee shirt, Kristin Wiig…#standwithstandingrock)
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Maybe we can keep him busy for four years with midnight tweeting.
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I wonder how the audience felt in Ford’s theatre with President Lincoln in the crosshairs.
Pence is not Trump and deserves not to be singled out and publicly challenged before the mob. If they had class, they could have invited him back stage. Challenging him in front of his children is not right, and in a public space, who knows what security issues could have occurred. The gestalt of the whole event was to antagonize, which does not endear oneself to your “guest” and “patron”, Did they say something that Mr. Pence had never thought, or read in the New York Times, every single day on every page?
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What MOB? Theater goers are not gangsters in a MOB.
The purpose of the actors polite heartfelt statement was to catch the attention of not only Pence, probably our future Prez, but to be noticed by all America, most of whom who have NO VOICE, they spoke for. It was a statement of unity, not of the divisive behaviors of Trump/Pence and their underlings.
They had a once in a lifetime opportunity to do this, and they BRAVELY ran with it. They are heroes. Trump’s pal, Putin, probably would have had his guards shoot them for speaking out.
And Pence surely was surrounded by the Secret Service who protects him 24/7. All their tickets and time, paid for by the American taxpayers. His evening at the theater probably cost us at least tens of thousands of dollars. The least he could do was listen to his constituents.
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Joseph, the cast of the production was not a “mob.” I wish Trump would go see Hamilton and get the same lecture. He needs to hear it. With his selections to date, he seems to want an administration that “makes America white again.” Ain’t gonna happen. This is a changing nation, and we have to adapt to modernity and change.
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What does Putin have to do with it?
We teach children the avoidance of bullying.
“Stevie Van Zandt, longtime member of Bruce Springsteen’s E-Street Band, actor, and activist, doesn’t have much in common politically with Vice President-Elect Mike Pence, but apparently Mr. Van Zandt has even less in common with what he described as bullying tactics by the cast of the Broadway play Hamilton. The iconic rock guitarist blasted the Broadway ensemble for its lack of respect and then pushed back against anyone who thought that behavior was acceptable”.
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Pence was addressed respectfully, not bullied
If Trump is going to complain about every act by artists and actors and comedians for the next four years that mocks him, he will be very busy indeed
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It is not a matter of respectfully,
He was forced to be chastised in front of a full house
of theater goers, many who may have been hostile.
Respectfully would have been back stage.
He is entitled to privacy, as a right, when he pays his ticket
from those who hold a leadership role of the environment.
Commentaries from fellow theatre goers might be fair game,
but should not be instigated by the cast.
How about them doing a week of free shows for those who can not afford a ticket or for minority school children, see how idealistic about the underprivileged they are then.
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Joseph,
You suggested that Hamilton should do free performances for “minority school children” as penance for “insulting” Pence. Actually, Hamilton has given numerous free shows for public school children, most of whom are black and Hispanic. They love the show. They enjoy people like them involved in the creation of the nation.
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Isn’t it nice that in the U.S. we are still entitled to our own opinion and the right to voice it. No one coerced Pence into listening to the statement. He actually handled the situation with aplomb. Trump…not so much.
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The Atlantic and SNL: Brutal satire.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/508337/?client=safari
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And, of course, more to this story–in a Chicago performance of Hamilton, a theatregoer & his family arrived late, the theatregoer spilled wine on a nearby patron (he did apologize), but, according to audience members, said theatregoer went on a rant, & he was ejected from the theatre, & is due in court in January. His lawyer says he was provoked by a ‘”partisan”‘ crowd. (There is a video of the incident available on Facebook.)
It appears that we are doomed to this sort of thing–along w/the hate messages, graffiti, etc.–going on & on, ad nauseum.
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Diane, are you aware of the last comment on the first thread of the comments on this post made at 1:00 am on Nov 22?
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GregB, no. Which one?
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GregB, I searched and can’t find a comment posted at that time.
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It’s the 19th one down, Lisa.
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GregB,
I will delete it.
A Trump troll.
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Please delete these comments as well. Thanks!
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GregB,
The offensive comment is gone. It got past me. This is what is happening around the country: the degradation of civil discourse. The casual use of epithets and slurs based on race, religion, ethnicity. We are drowning in a sea of degradation.
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