I’m still in a state of shock, after watching the election returns. The best qualified candidate in modern history was defeated by the least qualified candidate in history. President-elect Donald J. Trump appealed to fear of the Other….and won. The pundits and editorial writers will have much to feed upon in the days ahead.
The world is reacting. Global stock markets are in free fall. That affects our savings, our pensions, the equity in our homes.
What does this mean for education? The Republican Party is committed to school choice. Trump rarely spoke about education but this is the little we know. He pledged to take $20 billion from existing federal programs, probably Title I, and give it to the states to be used for charters and vouchers. It will be up to the states to protect what they can of public education.
This will be a boon for charter operators and for-profit entrepreneurs, and we can expect to see religious groups reach out for federal funding. But ultimately the decision about how to spend these block grants is in the hands of the states, a power strengthened by the new federal law, ESSA.
Trump said through a surrogate that he would not put an educator in charge of the Department of Education. He doesn’t like Common Core, but that’s in the hands of the states.
Truth is, he knows little about education and cares less. It didn’t play a role in the campaign. What kind of people will be making decisions about K-12 education and higher education? No one knows.
We will have to rely on the Democratic minority and moderate Republicans to restrain his worst instincts.
I had friends stay over last night for what we thought would be a celebratory evening. They brought their 10-year-old grandson for a sleepover. This morning, as we grownups were moping around, little Shawn shrugged and said, “There will be another election in four years.”
At least, Trump will stop saying it was a “rigged election.”
In the political earthquake that follows the election, we all need to sit back and evaluate who we are, how we can make sense of what happened, how we can survive the next four years, how we can build a viable movement to protect our democratic institutions, and what we need to do to restore hope in the future of our nation. Much depends on whether Trump governs as a pragmatist or a demagogue.
i have to stop now. My brain hurts. I am watching television as I write, and a sunny commercial just aired, sounding like a campaign ad, promoting justice, great schools, a new day. I wondered why anyone would be running a campaign ad on the morning after. The sponsor was Koch Industries.

Rigged primaries=Trump presidency.
DWS, Brazile, and the neoliberal elites in the DNC need to own this. Bernie would have won.
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Absolutely. Feel the Bern. This was a change election and Bernie understood that and the Democrats let Trump and the Republicans run with the ball. I recall that Bernie told Obama back at the beginning of his administration that he should govern like FDR and roll over the Republicans by going to the people. He didn’t and this is what we are left with. The useless Chuck Schumer as minority leader. Bernie would have run a 50 state strategy and appealed to the economically disadvantaged who gave their support to Trump. Sad.
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Bernie ALSO understood that just because you govern like Obama instead of FDR is no excuse for letting a man as dangerous as Trump win.
But if you are right, Bernie is perfectly content today. No doubt like you, he’d far prefer to be able to sit back and say “I told you so” than try to do what’s best for the country.
And if he agrees with you that Trump’s win is no worse than if Hillary won, he’s taking a relaxing long nap feeling good.
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Bernie is still leading the progressive charge. He did many commercials in Ca. in support of YES on 55, challenging Big Pharma. And he did similar ads all over the country…so it is egregious for you to attack him and all of us who voted for him.
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And you know very well that most of us who voted for Bernie in the primaries, DID VOTE FOR HILLARY. So let all these hurtful insults go.
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Ellen Lubic, I’m sorry you missed my sarcasm.
I voted for Bernie, too, so I’m not insulting him. I also wish Obama had governed like FDR and I was bitterly disappointed that he didn’t.
But I find all the “blame Hillary she wasn’t Bernie” posts to be dangerous. I agree that I wish she was more like Bernie but dismissing her loss like that means ignoring an extremely dangerous issue. The ability of the Republicans to create false scandals where there is none. Where actions that are not unreasonable are suddenly cast in a light that makes them “crooked”. Their ability to turn a decent person into something unappealing. That’s why Hillary lost and if we just ignore that, we run the danger of it happening again. And next time it may just be the beloved progressive candidate painted as a crook. You don’t think it can happen?
Ask “Pocahontas” Elizabeth Warren. And that’s before the full force and fury of the brilliantly evil Republican propaganda machine has been turned against her. You don’t think there are already a huge percentage of voters who only know her as the woman who lied about being part-Native American to get her job? Is it true? When has that mattered? And you don’t think there is plenty more to use? It doesn’t have to be true. It just has to twist something normal into something corrupt. The Republicans excel at that. Look how many intelligent people were convinced that Hillary Clinton was so corrupt it wasn’t worth voting for her to prevent Trump’s election? If intelligent people are buying that propaganda, can you imagine what low-information voters believe? I think they just told us yesterday. Hillary is corrupt so why not vote for change?
Look how Russ Feingold was characterized — or mis-characterized — the last weeks of the campaign.
I already noticed a post here from someone I suspect is a troll. It talked about Bernie being a sell-out and fake for supporting Hillary. Hmm…I wonder if Bernie’s strong statement about Trump will bring the right wing propaganda attacks his way. Trying to tear him down so his supporters don’t trust him
If we don’t recognize these attacks for what they are and start fighting them, it is going to be very hard to advance the progressive agenda. Because it will be all too easy to paint so many leaders as sell-outs and those Fox watching voters will believe it.
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Easy to say. Given, the appeal of Trump’s bigotry, I don’t believe that America would have voted for a socialist Jew. I can hear the Republican campaign now and it wouldn’t have been pretty.
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Well we now know for sure that Clinton was a walking disaster.
Wall St speeches.
Iraq war
Libya
Free trade history NAFTA
Corrupt foundation
Email scandal
Predatory black comments
It goes on and on.
Bernie was the candidate Wisconsin Michigan and Pennsylvania maybe even Ohio could have supported.
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Well, then, thank GOD we were denied the chance to find out in the general election. That DNC saved us a major loss for the Democratic party, up and down the ballot.
Oh, wait a minute. . .
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“Wall St speeches.
Iraq war
Libya
Free trade history NAFTA
Corrupt foundation
Email scandal
Predatory black comments”
Some of those are trumped up scandals from the alt-right that the low-information certain Bernie fans decided were true. after all, a woman dissed them.
FYI, those people elected REPUBLICANS who didn’t just do the bidding of the Koch’s of the world — those Republicans DID all the things you are so certain that Hillary evilly planned to do herself.
Your entire argument falls apart because if those blue-collar voters really cared about those issues, they would have been running from the Republican governors and Senators who got more votes than Trump.
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So it had to be pure, stubborn hate of women, blacks, etc.? Sanders folks are dupes. Trump folks? Dupes! But never Clinton supporters: to vote for her is to be immune from ignorance, error, credulous ovine behavior. Got it.
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MPG,
You are consumed with Hillary hatred. Get over it. She apparently won the popular vote (by a lot) and decisively lost the electoral vote. So be it. In 67 days, we will have President Donald Trump.secretary of State Gingrich? Attorney General Guiliani? Secretary of Education Carson? Secretary of the Interior Palin? Defense Secretary Christie?
Stop demeaning and belittling everyone who disagrees with you.
The question that puzzles me is why any poor or working-class American believes that Republcqnswill d anything at all for them.
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Diane, you’re responding to a comment that simply reflects the view of some posters. Nothing hateful about HRC in that post. I’m consumed with nothing, except for self-serving blindness and willful misrepresentation of other people’s views and/or motives. Don’t care which “team” is doing it. You seem unwilling to criticize or censure, for example, NYC parent repeatedly calling Rudy a liar. How is that not the sort of thing you decry as “personal attacks”? I honestly don’t understand your thinking on that.
And if mentioning my confusion is an attack, then I no longer grasp what an attack is or is not.
We have to live in a world for four years in which Donald Trump is POTUS and for at least two in which the GOP controls Congress. I’m not convinced that Trump is a Republican or a Democrat, but my thinking on that doesn’t matter. For those who swear they want to ensure that his control and that of the GOP is minimized, a good start would be to understand what just happened. Yelling at people who see the causes as more complex or different from that of the DNC, Clinton herself, or her most vehement supporters seems pointless. We’re trying to win at least as hard as y’all, and we were dismissed by the power-elite of our own party. Now we seek very seriously to take it over, purge the neoliberals and centrists, and move to a better, more humane and progressive future. We’re never going back to the Clinton Democratic Party. We’re not kidding. That’s a promise, not a threat, as the kids used to say in Jersey when I was young. Heed it or despise and ignore it. Your call. We’re already “outta here.”
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If you purge the centrists from the Democratic Party, President Trump is assured a second term in office. Both parties must appeal to a broad coalition of voters. Those that insist on ideological purity will fail and fail again and disappear.
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Letting them run things didn’t work very well. Get them out of the DNC and bring in progressives for once. Stop fearing those who are committed more to social justice than to corporate donors. Sanders managed to raise more than adequate financial support that way. Anyway is free to belong to such a party, but not anyone is free to run it back to the right. That’s what “purging” the centrists means. I honestly don’t want a party run by neoliberals and those owned by Wall Street and the like. If we can’t win without them putting their financial claws onto to policy and leaders, then we will need a new party entirely. We can’t keep running on “Hey, we’re not the GOP!”
So no more Deans, Brazilles, Wasserman-Schultzes, or Clintonists. Even Chuck Schumer appears to get it. If he can, anyone can.
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Ellison is saying Dems have to be less responsive to doners and more responsive to voters. In crowd sourcing like Bernie the Dems can ignore Wall St.
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Nonsense. Clinton is a bad candidate with a ton of baggage and a history of poor judgement in international affairs.
The base was not excited about her in Milwaukee Detroit Scranton … which killed her.
Too conservative. Too entitled, too close to Wall St, too open to free trade, …
Feel the Bern 2020.
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Agree.
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aswell
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Agreed too. Look at the states Bernie won – Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, West Virginia, several western states. Too bad Hillary couldn’t win those.
And what does it say when the “most qualified” candidate in history can’t defeat the least qualified?
But of course, the message that the DNC is going to take away, as they always do, is going to be exactly the wrong message – they didn’t go far enough to the right. Sigh. Lather, rinse, repeat.
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Russ Feingold lost AGAIN. Blame? I blame the people in Wisconsin for not electing a reasonably liberal/progressive kind of guy. Zephyr Teachout lost. The people had a chance to elect a progressive but the people have spoken. The people want right wingers and fascists and that’s what we got. That universal healthcare bill was defeated in Colorado. One good thing happened in NJ. Right-winger tea bagger Scott Garrett was defeated. One tiny little victory, though the Democrat is by no means a progressive. If Canada had a warmer climate, I might consider moving there. Dienne, you are right about the DNC.
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YES to all the above. Joel joked the other day about having his passport handy…not a joke today.
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Joe
In each of the races what were the Trump coat tails
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Trump coattails?
So voters whose main desire was about looking for someone to speak to them rejected a liberal Senator in favor of a guy who has done nothing but be in the tank for billionaires?
“But in the weeks before Election Day, the race began to tighten. Conservative groups backed by the Koch brothers threw millions of dollars more into the Wisconsin race in the final days and national Republicans boosted Johnson.
The race took on a personal tone, with Johnson calling Feingold “hypocritical” and “phony,” and saying he had no respect for him.”
Oh yes, I forgot. Feingold was HYPOCRITICAL and PHONY. No doubt you’ll agree because after all, that’s what you keep hearing. Lots of Wisconsin voters sure did. Those SAME Wisconsin voters who you are so very certain that Bernie would win.
Sure, Bernie would win. Because he would NEVER have allowed himself to be characterized as Feingold was. I’m sure you blame Feingold as he must have done something bad to make everyone believe he was such a phony. And of course, Bernie would have that special power that Feingold didn’t to resist. That’s all that is needed to fight those portrayals. A good and upright candidate. And Feingold just wasn’t good enough.
You really don’t have a clue. You have seen election after election and you don’t realize how easy it is for voters to be fooled.
Ailes and Rove are laughing at you and MPG and all the other Berniebots who did most of their job for them. I can’t wait to see who they get to tear apart next time. If they can get some foolish Democrats on their side, then “even the Democrats” know how phony and hypocritical that candidate is.
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Of course. You’re 100% right. But please, because I’m a math teacher but otherwise enormously stupid, gullible, led by the nose, etc., explain the actual results in terms of us “Berniebots.” Which states did we cost Sec. Clinton? Name one, point out the numbers.
Otherwise, I suggest you get back under the rainbow bridge.
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I posted below but I will repeat it here:
EVERY state was affected by the fact that nearly 60% of the voters believed exactly what you were telling them – that Hillary was so dishonest and untrustworthy that even though her platform was very close to Bernie’s, she was simply lying about all of it and would sell out the US for a buck.
Most of them weren’t willing to throw away their vote. So they voted for Trump. After all, if Hillary is as bad as “even the Democrats” know she is, they better make sure to vote to keep her out of office.
They were like YOU! You didn’t want to vote for a liar who would sell out every idea in their platform. And neither did they. Just because they came up with a different choice than you does not mean that you weren’t very instrumental in helping them make their decision. If it wasn’t for all the Bernie bots keeping alive their absolute belief in Hillary’s corruption, that meme would have died the same death that it did when the same right wingers tried it on Obama. Tony Rezko anyone? Too bad there weren’t a nice group of disaffected Hillary voters who kept harping about Rezko, the Chicago Machine and how dishonest Obama was. But I guess they could see more of the big picture than you. I wonder if you find they just weren’t as principled as you are. Hopefully you feel good knowing you helped educated US voters about Hillary’s dishonesty. That way they could find a better candidate – whether Trump, Stein or Johnson – for their vote.
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NYC P
You are Difficult Coattails imply that voters are not paying attention to the down ballot candidates and voting party line .
I do it all the time for quite a different reason . Aversion to the color Red . Usually that will be working Families here in NY. Though this fear I had to go Back and forth to accomplish the feat.
There is only one number for you to ponder 7 million
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No guarantee Bernie would win. He is seen as a “communist” by Trump, low-information supporters and a threat to their guns and form of religion. Plus Bernie is Jewish with anti-Semitism now openly on display in the new Republican party.
Biden, maybe.
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Vale,
I agree. Trump would have savaged Sanders. Biden would have appealed to the white blue-collar men (and women) who went for Trump.
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Oh please. Apparently you both forget that Bernie got a very good reception at Liberty University of all places. Bernie had a way of connecting with people because he listened to and understood their grievances and fears and responded to them in a way that didn’t resort to racism/sexism/xenophobia/etc. He had a way of bringing out people’s common humanity and they loved him for it.
Trump “savaged” Clinton by hoisting her on her own elitist petard. His whole message was “Clinton doesn’t care about you, I do”. Now, that’s certainly a dubious claim for him to make, but Hillary’s counter was basically, “I don’t care about you unless you’re affluent” – otherwise you’re “deplorable” (her own word, just a reminder). She walked right in to every trap he set. How’s that for her “competence”?
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Dienne, this is a great day for you and other Hillary haters. Let the rest of us feel sad a little longer before you start the hatred stuff up again.
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The word “deplorables” would never have crossed Bernie’s lips or his consciousness. You don’t win by trashing the opposition or their supporters. I have to give Trump this: I never felt denigrated personally by him, and his speech was unifying. It’s not likely to play out that way, but who knows? He did start out as a Democrat. Maybe he has a secret plan to end the war in Vietnam. Er, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, the Ukraine, ad nauseam.
Weird times.
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MPG,
You won. Don’t gloat.
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You can keep telling yourself that this race was about anti-Semitism (well, maybe Hillary shouldn’t have been QUITE so solicitous of Bibi at AIPAC?) rather than anti-Zionism, or that “communist” would really play better than “elitist, out-of-touch, snob”. But Bernie would never have thought or said, “Deplorables.” The “deplorables” offered their retort yesterday. I don’t blame them one bit.
But don’t think you can dismiss 31 of 50 states quite so glibly. They live here, too. They’re not all white, they’re not all male. Either a lot of minorities and women stayed home, or enough of them voted Trump or not for Hillary to make her lose. Whom do you blame for THAT?
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MPG,
You won. Stop gloating.
Bernie did not win the primaries.
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Bernie’s supporters that did not vote or didn’t vote for HC will rue the day that tRUMP won the election. Their gloating and sense of victory will turn to stunned shock over time, because Hillary gained Bernie’s support by accepting many of his proposals as part of her platform. tRUMP doesn’t support any of Bernie’s proposals. tRUMP is anti Bernie in every sense of the word anti.
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If I meet any Sanders supporters who are gloating, I’ll pass along your comments, Lloyd. So far, I’ve not seen evidence of gloating. Just a sense that we knew what we were talking about when we opposed HRC and complained about being spat upon by her and her inner circle. I’m sure you’d have turned the other cheek and cried your eyes out when your sense of reality was shown to be correct. “Oh, why didn’t they listen to us?”
Thing is, we KNOW why. Because they’re, smug, arrogant, stupid, and fundamentally elitists who think the sun rises and sets on their every little whim. Only “deplorables” could support Trump. Only left-wing loonies would NOT line up behind Hillary.
Oh, well.
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MPG alleged, “I’m sure you’d (Lloyd) have turned the other cheek and cried your eyes out when your sense of reality was shown to be correct.”
Don’t be so sure of anything, MPG.
I often wonder why ignorant fools keep painting progressives as turn the other cheek stereotypes.
Progressives are not all painted by the same brush. I am a progressive in the Teddy Roosevelt tradition, and I don’t turn my cheek to anyone, and TR was a Republican.
Because the GOP doesn’t follow in TR’s walk softly and carry a big stick footsteps, I’m now an independent.
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You’re smoking the NYCparent crack, Lloyd? You really don’t understand irony? Sarcasm? That phrase “I’m sure” is almost always code for “I’m totally being ironic now.” I’ll preface future responses to you with a warning for those on irony-poor diets.
I don’t see myself as a cheek-turning fellow. And I’m a life-long progressive. So my comment to you was either an indication that I don’t see you as progressive (I really don’t think about it all that much) or that I was suggesting that you wouldn’t have followed that pathway anymore than I would. Yet you seemed to be calling for something like that. Maybe YOU were being ironic and I missed it. But you don’t strike me as the ironic kind.
On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Diane Ravitch’s blog wrote:
> Lloyd Lofthouse commented: “MPG alleged, “I’m sure you’d (Lloyd) have > turned the other cheek and cried your eyes out when your sense of reality > was shown to be correct.” Don’t be so sure of anything, MPG. I often wonder > why ignorant fools keep painting progressives as turn the” >
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We had two choices on election day. Not voting or voting for a 3rd party candidate was a vote for tRUMP. I don’t care what you think, but it angers me when you play word games and act like you know who I am. You don’t know crap.
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Gee, Lloyd. You think it makes me happy to have you completely distort my views? Toughen up, buttercup.
On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Diane Ravitch’s blog wrote:
> Lloyd Lofthouse commented: “We had two choices on election day. Not voting > or voting for a 3rd party candidate was a vote for tRUMP. I don’t care what > you think, but it angers me when you play word games and act like you know > who I am. You don’t know crap.” >
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Like others have said, give it a rest. You got what you wanted. Revenge.
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Lloyd, with all due respect, I didn’t get what I wanted, and revenge is a fool’s pursuit. What you apparently can’t grasp is that if she’d won, I wouldn’t have gotten what I wanted and I’d be just as aggravated by the commentary I consider ill-considered and ill-informed.
Further, I was praying that her incompetence wouldn’t cost the rest of the Democrats (except maybe a few of the worst) all the way down the ballot. Smoke that for a while, considering that I voted for almost no one but Democrats yesterday. Could my checking “Hillary Rodham Clinton” instead of writing in “Bernie Sanders” changed the outcome of a single one of those down-ballot races, either in Michigan or throughout the country?
Keep ignoring what I say and turn it into your own fantasy material. Is my saying that you do so part of my “not knowing who you are”? Because I’m not PRETENDING to think you are doing exactly what NYC parent was doing earlier this week. Do you deny that’s what you’re doing? If so, try to quote something directly that I wrote and explain what it meant that justifies your interpretations. I’ll wait. And like with NYC, I’ll be waiting in vain. Thank goodness for multitasking.
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Well, you weren’t alone. For instance, G. W. Bush said he didn’t vote for anyone for president, just left it blank. He didn’t even write his brother Jeb in. I wonder why he didn’t do that.
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Perceptions. My republican leaders told me that a non trump vote was a Hilary vote.
Wish people would make up their mind
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Michael, Trump got enough of the electoral college to win. Now the United States gets to reap what they sowed.
Hopefully these voters don’t experience buyers remorse.
Remember Brexit.
I’m just hoping for the best.
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Before continuing the anti-Hillary dialogue (she lost, Trump won BTW), you should talk to Trump supporters here in fly over country. Hillary lost big here in the Great Lakes region. Bernie would not stand a chance. Bernie is seen as a “commie” threatening their gun ownership. These voters equate socialism with communism. They mistrust East Coast types and, yes, Jewish people even more who they see as controlling everything. Gays are not to be tolerated. Authority is accepted without question. Science and education are replaced with faith and beliefs. You have to be here. It is not Bernie country in a general election.
I don’t understand the continuing disparagement of Clinton. Yes, I didn’t like her, but she was better than Trump and she won the primary. The criticism seems to be pouring salt in wounds and serves no constructive purpose. If you are truly opposed to Trump, it is time to move on and regroup.
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Well, you could start with the attacks on progressives who would not commit to HRC, the finger-pointing that began long before the election (before the nomination, in fact), by her loyal supporters. Don’t tell me to move on and start dealing with Trump while screaming at me that it’s my fault that he won. Not saying that you’re doing so, but I didn’t invent the emails and Facebook attacks I was getting last night, this morning, and long before. Of course, I got them from Jill Stein supporters, too. And Trump supporters.
Funny, but my son, mother, and aunt all switched to HRC by Monday; not one of them berated me for not joining them, not one has attacked me today. Oddly, I imagine that I won’t be trying to justify my decisions to them or pointing out further my feeling that HRC was unelectable.
I moved on, in that regard, the day HRC was nominated. I network with Sanders loyalists. Come on in, the water’s fine. Or don’t. I won’t call you deplorable.
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I voted for HRC. Those I know who voted for Trump would have voted for Bernie had he been an option.
The midterms in two years will let us put the brakes on Trump. Let’s hope RBG can hold on to her health. In the meantime, I’m hoping for Michelle in 2020. 2020 vision for the future.
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Don’t forget the general election state and local elections in 2017. They also count.
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Michelle Obama? Another neoliberal? Oy, gevalt. Will this party never learn?
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I am hoping that someone who is NOT related to others who have lived there before. Someone who is not planning Dynasty. If that is what you want, pick a monarch
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Since you removed my other two comments, Diane, I do need to re-state that this is NOT a good day for me and I resent your saying that. I have stated over and over and over again (as has Michael, incidentally) that I do NOT support Trump. This is as sad a day for me as it is for you. Once again, Trump = horrible does not mean Hillary = good.
Michael has repeatedly complained about people putting words in his mouth and now even you are doing it. That’s what makes these days so sad.
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Dienne, don’t worry: people who have followed your almost always insightful and useful contributions on other issues aren’t about to change their perceptions of you today.
I, on the other hand, am a lost cause. I was having lunch with Charles Manson the other day, when he turned to me and said, “Is it hot in here, or am I crazy?”
Well, I haven’t had lunch with Donald Trump yet, but as a secret Trump loyalist, I’m expecting an invitation soon. Like all Sanders supporters, I supplemented my income over the past 18 months by taking regular checks from Trump to bash Hillary. The idea that I could sincerely see her as unsuitable and unelectable can only be explained by my inherent fear of strong women (hell, of ALL women), and my pecuniary interests.
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You Hillary haters WON!
OWN IT.
I know you aren’t gloating. Do you know who is gloating?
Roger Ailes. Karl Rove. Lee Atwater is toasting with champagne in heaven or hell.
They PLAYED you. They are LAUGHING at you. They LOVE that you blame Hillary and remain blissfully oblivious to how you were made the biggest fools out of. Do you know why they love it?
Because they plan to do it again. And again. Because you can fool some of the people all of the time.
Al Gore the exaggerating liar. John Kerry the coward. Hillary Clinton the most corrupt candidate in decades.
I despise them but they are brilliant. They win with their lies in Senate races and Gubernatorial races and Senate races.
Every time I think it is impossible for smart people to be fooled, I am set right.
You WON! Stop acting as if you haven’t said over and over again that it was not important whether Hillary won. Because she was so godawful that IT DIDN’T MATTER.
OWN IT. I have to tell my terrified and upset middle schooler that Trump isn’t so bad, it will be fine. I have to LIE. I wish you guys were here to be able to tell my kid truthfully how much Trump’s election is NO BIG DEAL.
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One if the things I learned studying for my citizenship test was that no one can be guilty until something has been proven
That might be a good lesson to teach your middle schooler. That condemning someone before a deed is done is not right.
You are teaching your child several things, few of them good.
You are teaching to be a sore loser. Both trump and Clinton made civil speeches. Follow their example.
You condemn acts before they are committed. That’s prejudicial. Not good.
You are instilling fear without facts. Not good.
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But she’s been insisting that I should give HRC “a chance.” Apparently, that’s another one-way street.
I got my then 7-y.o. son through the GWB invasion of Iraq and everything that ensued. I didn’t lie once to him. I did help him do better at knowing the difference between reality-based fear and free-floating anxiety grounded in little more than his own worst fantasies. Lying played zero role in that process. It never does.
It’s not dramatically different from teaching elementary mathematics without either telling kids things that are flatly untrue (“addition and multiplication always make things bigger” or “You can’t take a larger number from a smaller number”) or going into depth on things that they’re not yet ready for (“now, the real numbers can be defined as Dedekind cuts. . . .”
Instead, you say things like “With the numbers you know, you can’t find the answer to 5 + some number = 4, but when you’re a little older, you’ll learn a kind of number that will work for that.” It’s absolutely true. It doesn’t require “unlearning” later. And if a kid is super-curious about it, then you might explore negative numbers with her/him. But only if that’s what the CHILD demands.
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read my reply to him. He is a a perfect example of the ignorancia that elected this monster psychopathic moron to represent us.
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And madam, it is because of people like you that there is so much strife in this country.
You do not know me. You do not know who I voted for. You do not know my considerations in committing my vote.
Your spiteful name calling seems to take the place of reasoned argument.
I feel sorry for people who have to endure your presence on a daily basis.
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Yeah…you got me. It is people like me who made this happen. And you say that I don’t know you. Actually, I know you are intelligent and many your comments show insight, but you are missing something, that manifests in some of the things you say.
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What I miss Are the blinders that people with your attitude have, and which will keep parties from working together.
I have the willingness to a) try to understand what the other side is trying to say and b) the willingness to find ways to compromise.
Compromise, by the way, does not mean that only side side gets its way, but that both sides give up enough but not too much.
Congress CAN do that. Has done that. And should do it again.
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Yeah,its people like me who prevent people from working together,
This is after the party of no ended the middle class. Think I make things up.
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There, their, they’re.
Oh, wait, you’re not a grammar Nazi. But you sure do think you have the hotline to ultimate truth.
Would you feel better if I wrote this:
We did it. My family. I found a note in the basement: “We destroyed her!” Signed, Morty. You know why we destroyed her? Because we hate women (particularly my 89 y.o. mother and 96 y.o. aunt hate women). My 21 y.o. son hates women because, well, I RAISED him to hate women. What else could a misogynistic secret Trump worshiper do? I had to school him so that he’d vote for Trump yesterday. Ditto mom and Aunt Lil, too.
Oh, wait a minute: the all voted for Hillary Clinton. Despite not trusting her as far as they could throw a small piano. Because they bought the TRUMP IS SATAN crap or wouldn’t risk the possibility that he was.
It’s like atheists who find Jesus and God on their deathbeds. It happens. It might happen to me soon enough. But I doubt it.
In any case, I didn’t even breathe a word of dissent or rebuke to them. When early returns showed Clinton ahead in Texas, I told my son that if that held up, Trump was dead meat. No joy or sorrow at the thought, just a bit of amazement. But it didn’t hold up. And HRC lost Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. That last one still blows my mind.
So you keep telling yourself that any Sanders supporter is rejoicing today. Or that it’s “our victory.” Or the rest of the absolutely ludicrous bilge you’re serving yourself. But it’s no sale here in the real world. Instead of blaming everyone else, why don’t you try, just for a minute, to figure out why it REALLY went wrong and what you’re going to do differently for 2018 and 2020? Nominate Michelle Obama for POTUS? You might as well turn on the gas in your kitchen if that’s a serious plan to retake the White House. Lovely person, but we cannot win with another neoliberal.
I doubt either Sanders or Warren will run. They’re getting long in the tooth. Tulsi Gabbard? Tammy Duckworth? Certainly worth a look. Tim Kaine? Don’t make me laugh. How about. . .. Jim Webb? We could do worse. In fact, we just did.
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NYC: try dialing down the drama and hysteria. Then look at the returns. You think progressives cost HRC the White House? Try to use the numbers to prove that or even make a vaguely plausible argument for it. As the Math Wars twits like to say, “It just doesn’t add up!” And in this case, it really doesn’t.
She Got Creamed. She lost Wisconsin. She lost Michigan. She lost Ohio, SHE LOST PENNSYLVANIA. Can you tell me the last Democrat who didn’t carry PA at the POTUS level? (Hint: he posed in a tank with a ridiculous helmet on his head. And he also was the last Democrat who failed to carry Michigan).
For what it’s worth: I voted for Gore. I voted for Kerry. In fact, I have voted for a Democrat in every presidential election except 1980, when I voted for a progressive independent from Illinois named John Anderson. I voted for a Democrat yesterday. His name is Bernie Sanders. He worked his guts out for your beloved Hillary. She lost.
But it’s his fault. He should never have opposed her. Didn’t he realize that he might expose her left flank? We dumb, impressionable kids on the left who thought that an honest POTUS might be a good idea. Who judged HRC on her actual political history and the campaign she ran for the nomination, not the non-stop GOP hate machine.
On the other hand, there is you and those like you who need to believe that she is without sin, and because she’s been falsely accused of some things, she must be devoid of guilt every time, even when there’s actual evidence, even when her own words and deeds suggest that she’s what we’re saying she is (criminal? I don’t know. Repugnant politically to me and many like me? Zero doubt).
Oh, why couldn’t we give her the same break we give men? Obviously, we’re sexists. Even the women who find her unacceptable. Or they want to be where the cool boys are, right?
Aside from the fact that she just didn’t ask for MY vote (meaning the progressive vote) and often openly rejected it, there’s this: it didn’t matter. She destroyed herself. The DNC destroyed itself. They refused to recognize the political mood in the country and thought that her ties to Bill and Barack would be more than enough. That Trump’s bullying style was SO offensive that she’d win in a walk. Except that somewhere or other, the Clinton folks apparently knew that the wheels were coming off. Read that article by Thomas Frank. And others that indicated that her people were panicking. With good reason. And not because I wasn’t voting for her.
Well, you succeeded in getting me to reply, just by being so enormously full of self-pity (oh, that poor child you MUST lie to) and finger-pointing. Too bad the math doesn’t support you. And it never will. You are, quite frankly, deluded. And to be clear: I didn’t suggest your disorder was psychological, but rather neurological. You can’t seem to perceive reality. You might ALSO have other issues, but I’m just going with how you take what I write and react to a bunch of things I didn’t. And get angry at me for having thoughts I’ve never had.
Now you’ve broadened your diatribe to include the generic “me.” Not so personally insulting, but still utterly devoid of truth.
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There are a lot of people out there of all ages who will be suffering from nightmares, if they can actually sleep, for the foreseeable future.
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My posts got removed, but NYCPSP is allowed to post that delirium. Okeedokee. All I can say is, rehab, my friend. You’ve got a serious addiction to distortion.
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Dienne,
Did you not say that it didn’t matter whether Hillary won?
I really do not understand what you are saying so just say it straight out.
You didn’t think it mattered whether Hillary or Trump won.
You did think it mattered whether Hillary or Trump won.
This isn’t a trick question. Either it mattered or it didn’t.
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Vale
No guarantee . He would not have gotten any Republicans . He would have gotten the same Black vote . He would have mobilized the Youth vote massively. He would have crushed Trump on his key issue Trade . I guess your right he would have lost Florida bigly and North Carolina. Maybe even Virginia. He would have swept the industrial mid west.
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You are deluded yourself, MPG.
You really think she lost Michigan, Ohio and PA because she wasn’t liberal enough? Are you kidding me? She was offering one of the most liberal platforms in decades. Instead of pivoting right after she won the primary, as Kerry, Gore and even Obama seemed to do, Hillary pivoted LEFT in the general election.
The reason she didn’t win is because no one believed it. She was a liar. She only cared about money. She was happy to bomb the crap out of other countries and kill innocent children because she had no principles except greed.
That’s what you don’t get. You blame her for past e-mails or actions she took under Obama and ignored her entire platform. Because you KNEW she was a big fat liar. You decided to ignore the way she had lived her life for 30 years and decide that “oh no she tried to make as much money as she could giving speeches to anyone willing to pay” proved she would sell out those ideals in a nanosecond. It never once occurred to you that she looked at getting rich as a way NOT to be beholden to anyone. Not to have to worry about anything but what she really wanted to do — make this country a better place.
It’s so ironic because she might have been an incredible President. I say MIGHT. I don’t know if she would have been. But I do know that it would have been a darned good gamble to take.
Instead, we are gambling on Trump because people like you confirmed what the Republicans were telling them: she’s corrupt. And look at how many Democrats are telling you that it’s true.
You got played. Maybe if you recognize it, it won’t happen again.
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Fine. You know best.
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‘YOU GAVE US THE BIG CON, SIR: “The reason she didn’t win is because no one believed it. She was a liar. She only cared about money. She was happy to bomb the crap out of other countries and kill innocent children because she had no principles except greed.
Sir “… a secretary of state is not a president! She is a former secretary of state running for president… Clinton had to face long-drawn-out accusations of vastly greater malfeasance than when the 1983 bombing of the American Marine barracks in Beirut resulted in the killing of 241 American servicemen and women. After that massacre, conducted on RONALD REAGANS’ watch, a single Democratic House subcommittee conducted a 6 WEEK LONG investigation After the killings of the four Americans in Benghazi, the Republican-led House conducted seven investigations, one of which LASTED THREE YEARS…the Republican-led Senate CONDUCTED ANOTHER ONE..”
“She only cared about money.” this woman who worked tirelessly for children’s health care.’ WHAT A BIG LIE!
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/opinion/sunday/im-with-her-the-strengths-of-hillary-clinton.html?emc=edit_th_20161106&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=50637717
”One of the great misperceptions of this political year, among many Democrats and Republicans alike, is that Hillary Clinton is a third-rate candidate with no core or convictions” He goes on to say: “The public perception of her seems to me a gross and inaccurate caricature. I don’t understand the venom, the “lock her up” chants, the assumption that she is a Lady Macbeth; it’s an echo of the animus a lifetime ago some felt for Eleanor Roosevelt.(When Roosevelt spoke up for Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor, a letter in The Los Angeles Times thundered: ‘When she starts bemoaning the plight of the treacherous snakes we call Japanese (with apologies to all snakes), she has reached the point where she should be forced to retire from public life.’ Strong women sometimes drive people nuts.) In fact, what makes Hillary Clinton tick has always been a 1960s-style idealism about making the world a better place!”
HERE IS THE TRUTH IF YOU CAN STAND IT http://billmoyers.com/story/hillary-hatred-revisited/ “The media obsession damaged her reputation, but the obsessives were not original: “They were cringing before the Republicans’ tar-and-feather job —the fixation on emails, which had long been an addiction among Republicans and the right-wing media, suddenly became an addiction in the mainstream media as well. According to a Lexis-Nexis search, The New York Times, to cite one example, had seven stories that month with “Clinton” and “emails” in the headline. More important, most news sources reported erroneously that Clinton was the subject of a criminal investigation by the FBI.”
Americans have gotten used to female secretaries of state but a PRESIDENT? “To use the metaphor du jour, the glass ceiling that used to hang over the State Department was smashed to smithereens. They went after her. “A Democrat running for president is going to be smeared by the Republicans. This goes without saying. But a
Democratic woman running for president gets extra layers of smear,” says Alexandra Petri: “It is pretty funny. She must be a super-powerful woman to inspire so much fear and fantastic theorizing. Before Time, Before the Earth Was Made, Before Matter and Being and History: Hillary Clinton (Lucifer, Beelzebub, Lord of the Flies, Prince of Darkness, Satan, She Whose Many Names the Cats Scream in the Night) is cast out of heaven for overweening hubris. She is condemned to lie in eternal torment in a lake of fire surrounded by her fallen angels, or, alternatively, to run for a major office while female. For thousands of years she lies outside time, smelling of sulfur, before deciding to undertake the second option.”
Yeah, and she eats babies.
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If that rant makes you feel better, good going.
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But MPG doesn’t care about the fact that she ran on the most liberal platform, one that was very similar to Bernie’s.
MPG and the other anti-Hillary voters KNEW that she was a lying, corrupt candidate. All the rest is poppycock. They did not TRUST her.
She LIED.
Notice the code words? Right out of the Roger Ailes playbook. MPG had a candidate that essentially ran on the entire Bernie platform but he did not TRUST her. Even Bernie telling him to trust her was not enough.
They all got played. They can deny it forever, but given what Hillary’s platform really was, their claims she was a neoconservative were based on the fact that they just didn’t trust her. They read the selected ee-mails from wikileaks to put her in the worst light — I bet there were hhundreds more where she talked about how much she wanted to do oof the Bernie platform that didn’t get “leaked”. The irony is that if you read those e-mails closely, without extreme Hillary hatred, you’d realize that the very worst the leakers could find to tar her was mild. All innuendo. Big donors wanting meetings who didn’t seem to be accommodated.
It wasn’t just that the Hillary-haters thought she was more likely than not to reject the platform and Bernie. It’s that they were gosh darn certain of it. I mean it certainly wasn’t worth a 50/50 shot to elect someone running on a liberal platform, especially when she’s only running a candidate that isn’t really much worse, like Trump.
That what really saddens me. That we lost a chance for something good. Because people got played.
And if Trump ends up being the working class savior that some of you seem to think is “possible” and not the scary racist demagogue who will use the easiest scapegoat when his nonexistant plans don’t fail, you can say I told you so. I’m shocked you wanted to take that chance oon your certain belief that the chances of Trump being truly terrible for our democracy are less than the chance of Hillary doing something good for it.
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Of course, you’re 100% right as always. So here’s my suggestion. Email me directly: mikegold@umich.edu. I’ll send you my address. Have an assassin kill me or do it yourself. I deserve death because I personally didn’t trust Hillary Clinton (and still don’t, by the way, even after martyring her out of my ignorance, poor judgment, and fundamental male misogyny).
Just do me one favor: name a state she would have won if those who voted for Sanders yesterday voted for her instead. Just a single state where he drew enough votes to offset the gap between her and Trump.
I’ll wait. Forever. Because there isn’t a single one.
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How the heck would you know who was swayed to vote against Hillary because of comments from former Bernie supporters? Bernie had a chance to hold Hillary accountable for honoring at least some of the platform. That platform is dead now, and Bernie is essentially toothless.
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Bernie is NOT dead, and his revolution lives on, as anyone who worked with his campaign knows. and 2 old, don’t ague with MPG, he thrives on provoking folks… ignore his taunts and misleading opinions.
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Bernie is reduced to a protestor on the street corner. at least he is used to that role, so he will probably handle it much better than most. The Republicans do not have to pay attention to anything the Democrats say. All this talk about governing for the whole country is BS. People should be horrified at his 100 day agenda and the people he has chosen to surround himself with. I’m sorry, Susan, but progressives were soundly defeated. What’s that line about a tree in the forest?
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As sick as I am about a Trump win, I’m even more horrified by his potential appointments to positions of power. Imagine Newt as Secretary of State? How about Christie as the head of the DOT? Carl Rove! I feel like I’m going to vomit.
Despite this loss, I hope that Trump stays healthy, because Pence would be even worse. We know where he stands on issues involving women, minorities, and education and none of it is good.
Those who present themselves as reasonable are more dangerous than those, like Trump, who we expect to be outrageous.
(And please, don’t even mention 2020. I can’t deal with the future right now.)
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I’m with you.
Follow Cheryl’s advice and read Peter Greene.
http://curmudgucation.blogspot.com/2016/11/teaching-in-trumps-america.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FORjvzd+%28CURMUDGUCATION%29
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“Indeed, nearly six in 10 voters interviewed in NBC Exit Polls so far today say that Clinton is not honest and trustworthy. Slightly more than one-third say she is.”
See, MPG, nearly 60% of the voters agree with you.
Who needs a candidate with a great liberal platform when voters KNOW that candidate won’t keep her promises anyway.
As I repeated before, I didn’t really care if you chose to vote for Stein for some protest vote you were so certain made you better than the rest of us.
I cared about what you were SAYING. And the people listening weren’t voting for Stein. They figured, if Hillary was as corrupt as EVEN THE DEMOCRATS were saying, they might as well vote for Trump. Just because “anyone but Hillary” for you means Stein does not hold true for most of America. That’s what you don’t seem to grasp. There were plenty of Trump voters who could not see past Hillary’s dishonesty to see that she was offering a plan very similar to the one you believe Bernie would have run away with the election with if only he was the candidate. They didn’t vote for Stein — they voted for Trump. For the “stop Hillary” vote. She was a liar who would sell out our country for a buck.
When Ailes and Rove played you for a fool, they didn’t care about your VOTE. They cared about your WORDS. People like you registering protest votes aren’t really helpful to Ailes. But people like you repeating ad nauseam the constant meme that crooked Hillary was a liar, dishonest and untrustworthy was what Ailes wanted. What he NEEDED. You see, it turns out Hillary’s platform really was incredibly liberal. You seemed to miss all that in your zeal to condemn her. She didn’t just win the primary and say to Bernie “screw you while I pivot right to get some more voters”. Hillary won the primary and said “you have good ideas and I will adopt them and do my best to make them work”. How many other Democrats can you say that of? Ironically, you claim you voted for the other Democrats who pivoted right! And yet you could not vote for the one who pivoted left. You don’t think you were played?
But remember, Hillary was LYING. She didn’t mean one word of it. You are so certain of it that you were not even willing to RISK voting for her because you were entirely convinced that she had no intention whatsoever to enact it. It didn’t even matter if Bernie said she did — you were sure elderly Bernie was either deluded or lying to you. So why would you ever want to vote for such a liar who you were 100% would not enact a single one of all those Bernie policies that were in her platform?
You fool. You very smart, very clever fool. You got played. Ailes didn’t care who you voted for. He cared about you and your pals reinforcing his MEME. His meme that “even Bernie voters know what a total liar Clinton is”. And you all gave him all that he could have asked for.
But MPG, if this makes you feel somewhat consoled, I am probably exaggerating your power a bit and you aren’t nearly as much at fault as that gosh darned “liberal media” trying so hard to be fair and balanced. They bought right into every single belief that you keep repeating to me. Hillary is a liar. Hillary is corrupt. They fell for the Ailes propaganda too because the Bernie bots reinforced it with their own repeating of the smears. Or, as you would say, “the truth about Hillary”. When I asked you to name something good about Hillary, I wasn’t kidding. You COULD NOT! And there were enough like you to “prove” to the media that Ailes characterization was absolutely true. After all, “even Bernie bots” agree. Ironically, they never asked BERNIE if he agreed! Or they just ignored how many times he explained it wasn’t true. Because it was far more fun to repeat that “hilllary is dishonest” meme. As someone who believes it, you should be very proud of the media for doing such a terrific job reporting on Hillary. After all, they reported exactly what you know is true. She’s dishonest. And the Bernie voters agree.
You don’t even realize you won. Hillary did not win. And everyone is convinced she is just as dishonest as you believe. You should feel really good.
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While I like Biden, he had a lot of baggage which would have been a problem in a presidential campaign.
And while I liked quite a bit of Bernie’s message (although most of it wouldn’t have gotten through congress), Sanders was not vetted and Trump would have “crucified” him. If the country wouldn’t elect a woman, they definitely would not have accepted a Jew (no matter how well qualified) as President.
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I’m from Buffalo and I feel today the same way I felt after the Bills lost their fourth Super Bowl.
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I’m from Buffalo, too–and it may be worse. the Bills always had “next year”–this is 4 years, and with SCOTUS appointments maybe much longer
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Kiss goodbye to the SCOTUS for maybe 30 or 40 years. It’s not just SCOTUS, it’s also a panoply of lower courts that will go hard right wing. The hard right wing GOP is in charge of EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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With both Breyer and Bader-Ginsburg in their 80s, SCOTUS will be left with Sotomayor and Kagan for awhile to speak for most of us…and we will be left with a 7 – 2 Court. Scalia, and probably Kennedy soon, seats will be filled with the worst of the Alts. God help America.
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A new chant…Senator Al Franken for Prez in 2020/
He is a progressive from Harvard, with the best SOH in DC,
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Yes!
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“Truth is, he knows little about education and cares less. It didn’t play a role in the campaign. What kind of people will be making decisions about K-12 education and higher education? No one knows.”
If nothing else, you are describing the status quo. You have described what you have thought about for the last 16 years.
Democrats support NCLB, ESSA – so what made you think a Clinton win would have changed that kind of thinking?
Would you really expect anything different from Democrats?
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Hard to disagree, Rudy. As I’ve said for 18 months or so, she was at least as bad on key education issues. As was Obama. Maybe Trump will appoint Arne Duncan for another round as Sec. of Ed. Oh, probably not.
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Given the anti-education views of the alt-right now in charge, yes, I so believe Democrats would be more likely to reconsider the current approaches to education. But certianly not now.
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You might try to make that belief more than hope, Vale. Give me the names of legislators currently in office (meaning elected before yesterday) who’ve shown the slightest opposition to GERM. Not any Senator I can think of. Virtually no one in the House. Yesterday wasn’t about education, and HRC offered ZERO to appeal to the education-only voter.
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Education is not a priority at the Federal level until it is. Education is unglamorous, complicated, and emotional. I suspect most legislators try to avoid tackling the issue.
Republicans tend to favor free market solutions, stratified societies, and they generally mistrust any science or reasoned thought. Democrats tend towards cooperative approaches, equal opportunity, and liberal education. If you are looking for perfection by either party, you won’t find it. But if I have to make a choice for education policy, I pick Democrats.
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“HRC offered ZERO to appeal to the education-only voter.”
Neither did Bernie.
But HRC does her homework, which is more than I can say about Bernie on that issue. It obviously was not a priority for either, but Hillary made enough allusions to charters that got rid of kids to convince me she was far more familiar with the issues.
Meanwhile, Bernie was stuck saying he supported public charter schools. When he obviously did not have a clue what that was. And he doesn’t seem the wonk like Hillary who would have been interested in finding out.
No problem, however. We’ll have Trump and I know you believe with all your heart that he won’t be any worse than Hillary. Not in any way that you’d want to prevent, of course. Because when you are so certain both candidates are terrible, who really cares? Whatever Trump decides to do, no doubt you can rest comfortably in your absolute certainty that Hillary would have done things just as bad. Not because she said so. But because you know she is the lying sell-out that Rove and Ailes told you she was. No big loss.
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You get your “facts” on Sanders from thin air, from Diane’s ceaseless opposition to him (which of course is her right), and from your ability to read minds.
Problem is, I know people in Vermont (where I went to college) who know Sanders personally, who worked with him in Burlington when he was mayor, who dealt with him when they served in the Vermont legislature, and they think the world of him, think he’s smart, honest, and as hard-working as anyone they’re ever known for the interests of the disadvantaged.
When you tell me all the horse hockey that HRC is fantastic, I really can’t say I have personal knowledge that refutes your fantasies. But when you pretend to know anything about Sanders that isn’t self-serving, I would have to reject the views and stories of actual human beings who know him that I’ve known since 1969. And despite all your passion and honeyed words (you charmer, you!), I have to go with those other folks. They’re not speaking out of hatred for HRC (in fact, I’m certain that they all voted for her yesterday). Rather, they speak from direct knowledge of Mr. Sanders. You don’t. Not even kind of.
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MPG,
Thanks for your ok for my “ceaseless opposition” to Trump. What part of his program did you admire? Building a wall that Mexico will pay for? His belief that Obama was not an American? His description of America’s cities as hellholes? His promise to bring back torture? His pledge to round up and deport 11 million Undoumented? His attack on a federal judge because his parents are Mexican? His pledge to spend $20 billion on school choice? What part of that was I supposed to admire? What part should I have supported?
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I just sent you an email, Diane. Let’s stop this here.
I only have one more post to make, and then I’m gone.
On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Diane Ravitch’s blog wrote:
> dianeravitch commented: “MPG, Thanks for your ok for my “ceaseless > opposition” to Trump. What part of his program did you admire? Building a > wall that Mexico will pay for? His belief that Obama was not an American? > His description of America’s cities as hellholes? His promise to” >
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I hate to agree with MPG, but you do not know Bernie.
I have known him since high school, and followed his career forever.
HIS character an integrity, and his brilliance has been visible in all he does.
I think ,if elected, he would have put into place a policy for saving our public education INSTITUTION
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Michael Paul Goldenberg just “knows” that Bernie didn’t mean it when he said he supports public charter schools. Because his friends know Bernie is smart and hardworking. So they are certain he didn’t really mean it or maybe he meant it but who knows.
I KNOW Bernie is smart and hardworking. That’s why I voted for him in the primary. That’s why my kid worked for him. Unlike you, that doesn’t make me deluded about his views. I knew that he didn’t seem at all interested in charter/public schools and that worried me. But unlike you, I can look at the whole man and say “even if I disagree with him I can still recognize all the good things”. You also keep lying and insisting I believe Hillary can do no wrong despite my having said over and over again that I voted for Bernie because I disagreed with more of Hillary’s policies. You only read what you want to read. And you only believe what you want to believe.
I asked you time and time again to say ONE thing about Hillary that would demonstrate that you had not entirely embraced the one-note “corrupt Hillary” meme that Roger Ailes was pushing. And you could not. You could only come up with “she doesn’t kick dogs” which is very likely true of Dick Cheney and Donald Trump. When you can’t find a single thing right with a candidate like Hillary — who is far from perfect but ALSO far from 100% worthless — you have been played and played good. Roger Ailes NEEDED you and your pals to get the press to pick up on the crooked Hillary meme. Because without the “even the Democrats know she is corrupt”, those memes don’t play. It wasn’t your vote that hurt Clinton. It was the enormous effort you went to in order to make sure everyone knew how crooked Hillary was. Good thing we ignored all the Bernie ideas in her platform because hey, Trump won’t be any worse. You’ve said it over and over again. I just don’t know why you seem to be trying to take it back now. OWN IT.
Hillary Clinton may have been campaigning on exactly the Bernie platform that MPG says he wants, but he is so convinced that she never intended to enact any part of it that he felt it was no loss that we never had a chance to see. Or that we will get a chance to see Trump’s. No loss at all. Own it.
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Or that we might have the congressional backing to push some of that agenda. Congress is incredibly important in policy direction, and we made sure that the Democrats lost all chance of playing an important role in Congress.
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FTSE is in positive territory. No global market crash. Our markets are only down 1 percent. It’s s non event.
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Hurray! Now we can all grow our portfolios! Oh wait. You mean everyone doesn’t have a portfolio? What have they been doing?!
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Announced today that most boomers have saved only about $2K – $5K for retirement, and most have only small pensions, if any. They also will only average about $1300 in SS. Good luck America…we need poor houses as they had in 1929 – 1940 when we were saved from the depression by WW2.
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I really do NOT trust RaiseTheBarHigher. I’m assuming he will start criticizing Bernie very soon.
He linked to an article in which he claimed Hillary had already chosen some Wall Street type for Treasury Secretary or some top job. He completely lied about it.
It’s time to turn the attack dogs on Bernie so I won’t be surprised to see RaiseTheBarHigher (or whatever other name he decides to use to post as a disillusioned progressive) start attacking.
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Hillary won the popular vote but lost in the Electoral College. Enough of this happening again!!
I woke up at 3:30am this morning and wanted to find the results of the election. I was not able to go back to sleep. A friend of mine called a little after 5:00am and we commiserated.
A friend of mine in Australia had emailed me that she was praying that Trump not win. A British friend in Malaysia let me know that “Americans won’t elect him.’ A Canadian friend has been emailing me to let me know that she is concerned.
The world stock markets have been tumbling as if there were a world crisis. What is going to happen now that we have a narcissistic, unstable and unfit President? God help us.
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World stock markets are not tumbling.
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RTBH: you apparently can’t counter hysteria with facts. People have to BELIEVE that Hillary really won (with 19/50 states) and the the world markets are now crashing, but neither is true. We survived 8 years of GWB, 8 of Ronald Reagan, 6 of Nixon. We’ll survive this, perhaps better than we did 8 years of WJC and 8 of BHO. I can’t say I’m CONFIDENT of that, but certainly not certain that we’re “doomed.”
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MPG,
You won. I will ask again: stop gloating.
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“We’ll survive this, perhaps better than we did 8 years of WJC and 8 of BHO. I can’t say I’m CONFIDENT of that, but certainly not certain that we’re “doomed.”
I know, you made that very clear. The 2 main choices in this election were not different enough for you to care which candidate won.
You’ve been saying that for a long time. I have no doubt you believe it very strongly. It didn’t matter to you whether Clinton or Trump won.
All I ask is that you OWN IT. If you go around doing your best to convince everyone that it doesn’t matter whether Clinton or Trump wins, then you are welcome to that view. I happen to disagree strongly, but I have no doubt at all that you genuinely believe that it makes no difference. And that’s why you voted was you did.
I tried and tried and annoyed you to no end endlessly attempting to explain why you were wrong about whether it mattered one whit whether our next President was Trump or whether it was Clinton. And I just succeeded in making you angry because you were absolutely certain it didn’t matter.
Now the rest of us get to find out if you were right. I don’t expect you to gloat, but I do expect you to feel exactly as you would feel if we were faced with the same “horrible” prospect of a Clinton Presidency. Either way, terrible outcome to MPG.
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I wish we could get rid of the electoral college, it is an anachronism in 2016. I am in shock that so many of my fellow Americans prefer a fascist to a decent and reasonable candidate. We can now kiss goodbye to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and the ACA and any chance at true universal health care.
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There’s still a chance for these things. It’s depends on how much you want it and whether or not you’re willing to risk everything to save it. This blog is still an effective meeting place.
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mcfartle, huh? The universal health care initiative in Colorado was defeated and Vermont had to give up its plan for a state single payer system. Face it, this country is now controlled by a far right wing radical party with Trump on the top. There’s no chance for universal health care for a very long time, decades. The GOP will block everything progressive and they are in charge.
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Universal health care is a financial death trap. Grew up in the system, so really DO know what I am talking about. When people live longer, it will become more expensive. When not enough “new people” come into the tax system, it is an albatross for ANY financial system.
It has a direct impact on the QUALITY of care (Ask England, ask Canada, ask France, Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden, Norway… ALL countries where the financial burden has become great enough that users pay more and more out of their pocket.
The ACA is a good example. Why do the premiums have to go up so much?? Not enough healthy users sign up for it, so the influx of capital does not keep up with the “outflux.”
In order to actually PAY for the health care provided, the companies need MONEY (strange, I know). And in order to stay in business, not only do the companies have to receive money, but more money then they pay out. And before you start about the filthy profiteers – on average, Insurance companies are low on the list of the 100 top profitable companies (Used to be around 86th or so).
A good friend of mine is covered by ACA. We calculated the cost of the subsidy he receives: Close to TWENTY THOUSAND a year. And that is just one family.
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Don’t bet on it, Joe. And 19/50 states does not a POTUS make. Or maybe the DNC should have changed ITS rules before letting an unelectable person steal their nomination and guarantee disaster at the polls. The ones that count.
As for “decent and reasonable,” not from where I sit. And “fascist” is just as meaningful here as “Nazi” or “Hitlerian.” The sort of absurd epithet that only serves to get a lot of people’s backs up. How dare you stereotype about 30 million Americans: do you REALLY know what was in all their hearts and minds? I’m not the psychic you think you are, so I’ll say that there is a good deal of room for variation in what moved so many to not pull the lever for HRC and opt for Trump or a third-party candidate. I don’t think it was all or even mostly misogyny, but what if it was? All the women for Trump must be self-hating. All the non-whites for Trump? Also self-hating. All the Jews for Trump? OBVIOUSLY self-hating, because any good Jew votes as Bibi Netanyahu would want, right? Maybe not. Or maybe Trump wasn’t running as an anti-Semite from the perspective of enough people.
Or maybe it’s just a mystery.
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Joe…I agree and have long advocated for a 21st Century Constitutional Convention. I designed and taught a college course around this concept in the late 1990s.
There is no need for the Electoral College in modern times when we each know the thinking and voting decisions of all others in a nanosecond. Those who wrote the Constitution had no prescience to imagine technology in 2016, but they did have the forethought to recommend continuing Constitutional Conventions into the future.
And it is neither fair nor rational for the most populated areas of the US to not have more influence in the outcomes of elections than those in states with small populations. We need to fight for a popular vote from here on. With a popular vote we would have had Al Gore as Prez,and we would not have caused the conflagration that is the Middle East. That would be real democracy.
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Ellen – Some states base their electoral college totals on the popular vote, not individual districts. Hopefully more states will follow suit.
I agree with you about Gore, but when the country voted Bush back in office for a second term I was resigned to the fact that our country got what it deserved.
I feel the same way now. Basically, we are a country containing too many wannabes who admire Trump and his brash behaviors. Now we’ve got to live with the results. Those who didn’t vote along with those of us who voted for the other candidate(s) are along for the ride.
Let’s hope our democratic system of checks and balances works the way it was designed. This will be the true assssment of our founding fathers.
The other Ellen
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I agree: get rid of the Electoral College. My vote in Montana never counts. Our state, like so many rural states, always votes Republican in presidential races, and all votes go to the Republican candidate. If each vote counted for itself under a popular vote system, my vote would be equal to someone’s in Ohio or Florida or another current battleground state.
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We go on with our lives like we do every election. If it’s any consolidation, Peter Cunningham is whining about the victor of local control in Massachusetts. Every the positive thinker, my thoughts are:
We get to watch Trump have to work WITH people and not always get his way.
People are so uptight over this man (as they should be) that maybe journalists will actually do their job efficiently and cover congress and the president before any deals are made.
The DNC will wake up and realize they made this problem by squashing Sanders and not listening to the people.
Conservative Christian voters put a thrice married man in office who could care less about religion or gay marriage.
People will have their guard up regarding anything Trump says that is remotely racist or sexist.
I’m sure there’s more but those are the immediate things.
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The GOP is now in charge of everything. This is not good.
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You are assuming, Allison, that Trump will work within our system.
However, he has shown the world that he does not “work with other people” which means Congress, world leaders, advisers, but he instead has shown us with his singular campaign of “let Donald be Donald” it is far more likely he will rule by fiat.
That is the main reason so many of us are mourning today IMO.
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The kids are taking it much worse than the adults in my household. Tough to see.
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Oh yes. I’ve been lying through my teeth to my middle school kid.
If only MPG could come and reassure my kid that it won’t be any worse than if Hillary won.
At least one of us would be saying something we believed.
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Not so good today or tomorrow, but if you send me a ticket from Detroit Metro to the closest convenient airport, I will be happy to reassure him, as I did my 7 y.o. son when the Iraq war started and he thought it was WW III
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“Don’t worry. It’s just the same as if Hillary won.” – MPG
Ironically, those are the very words I am using to lie to my kid. So I apologize for thinking I needed to spring for the airfare.
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Fine. You know best.
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Yes, FLERP…my 7 year old grandson is now worrying about it all, and about his friends/schoolmates/soccer buddies who are of color. He asks if they will sent out of the country now. Too much trauma for children…
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MPG is available to reassure any children that they shouldn’t worry — things are just like they would have been if Clinton won.
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In other words, the more things seem to change, the more they stay the same.
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Trump is a businessman that knows how to employ the “best person for the job”, rather than appointing people that made big contributions as has been the practice. Change can be scary for everyone. But the key is to pull together and STOP pulling apart. Our REPUBLIC is worth a little inconvenience to preserve for future generations for ALL people.
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If the building of Trump Tower is anything to go by in terms of his employing “the best person,” look for a lot more TFA’ers in our schools. Closest thing education has to undocumented Polish workers.
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Linda G,
From the campaign, it is hard to say that Trump employed “the best person for the job.” He threw out the Establishment of both parties. It’s anyone’s guess who will join his team. The only ones we know for sure are Rudy Guiliani and Chris Christie (unless he is indicted, in which case Trump can pardon him.)
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And Diane, there are the Mafia bosses he worked with to build his casinos. The prospect of his Cabinet choices leaves me with heart palpitations.
Jeff Sessions is the name many are putting forth for a leading role…that is terrifying to contemplate
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News this afternoon says Gingrich is to be Sect. of State, Guiliani is AG, Flynn is head of Defense Dept., and Preibus is Chief of Staff. And that there will be no Dept.of Ed. All are against women’s rights.
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Seems strange. If Trump “knows how to employ the “best person for the job”” why is it that he has gone through so many bankruptcies? I believe there are six (6) bankruptcies. I guess he was just practicing picking the right people for those jobs. How is picking the right people going to change now he has been elected to the White House? Just curious.
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Bankruptcies are a LEGAL recourse. If they had not been legal the Bankruptcy courts would not have granted them.
Many have wondered how he could loose over $900 million in the casino business. Trump guaranteed the investments of the little people that joined his venture. In other words … They lost NO money, he took the entire loss upon himself. His casino wasn’t the only one that was loosing money at the time … cities heavily invested in casinos lost money as well.
If he was not capable of making excellent choices there is no way he could have built such an impressive portfolio. His ventures are worth over $100 billion dollars today. He started with a $1 million dollar LOAN from his father. For the size of his holdings he has a very small amount of debt.
Where education is concerned I think he knows enough to realize we must not go down the path where we educate our children to only be able to do the things a robot can do.. They need to be taught how to learn things without it being spoon fed to them. They need to keep imagination, creativity and out of the box thinking if they are going to be future leaders in the world. We shall see if he makes good choices for the education of our children in the coming months.
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What a bizarre comment re bankruptcy. Makes him sound like a hero for helping the little people. I must live in another universe for that is so far from his actual behavior reported in the world’s media. Guess I just dreamed of his connection with Roy Cohn and the mob, and his stiffing the “little people” on payday. Please wake me when it is all over. Or is it now all over?
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If we had to pick a businessman, there are better choices. Maybe even a businesswoman? Trump did little to demonstrate exactly HOW his business experience would apply to effective governing. All we got was “trust me”. I hesitate electing the most powerful person on the planet with faith alone. Plus your assumption is that running a business is the same as governing. Businesses are run as dictatorships where the CEO sets the rules and employees have few rights and are expendable. That thought should give any sane person pause.
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The thought occurs to me that Trump’s way of doing business is through dictatorship — defined as bullying. So, I must assume that he will run this country in the same manner. He will pick people for his Cabinet and the Supreme Court that will follow his style of leadership (dictatorship). Good luck America!!!
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Carly Fiorina wanted your vote. Oh, wait: she was a disasterous CEO.
Was there another female businesswoman running? Maybe Mike Bloomberg would have been a great choice? Oh, wait: total stooge of GERM. Never mind.
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MPG, For the third time, have some modicum of decency and stop gloating over your election victory
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Diane, I’m not gloating and it wasn’t MY victory. I made clear repeatedly that I would take yesterday’s outcome as a loss for everything I value, BEFORE it happened. I assumed, wrongly, like many expert pollsters, that HRC would win. Last night, I went to sleep still figuring she’d win, though at that point, the math looked wrong. I need to compare the electoral map with those of 1992, 1996, 2008, and 2012 to see just how the Democrats managed to blow it.
As for “for the third time,” I’m afraid there are far more comments coming in than I’ve had time to glance at, let alone read or respond to.
Try to be a more gracious loser and figure out how you and the rest of us who don’t support Trump can keep things manageable for at least the next four years and avoid the idiocy of the DNC this time in 2018 and 2020. I’ve already written, repeatedly, since July, Don’t mourn, organize. So how that comprises gloating eludes me.
But on the other hand, the DNC needs to be rejected entirely by the rank-and-file. They had their innings. They got their candidate. And that candidate just got 19 of 50 states. If we real progressives can’t do better than that, if an embracing rather than polarizing candidate can’t do better than that, I’ll really consider relocating to another continent. This morning, I’m just fending off the accusations and attacks I started getting from friends last night. But at least they had the decency not to suggest I took this as MY victory or that I voted for Trump.
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No business run like a dictatorship is successful for long. The CEO has a board that says yea, or nay, to his/her suggestions. They determine policies and procedures based on the prevailing laws within their sphere of operation. There is nothing remotely resembling a dictatorship involved. Their decisions are based on the financial rewards or consequences of what the market will bear and people are looking for in a return on their investments. They are required by law to operate in that manner. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t be in business.
Companies spend a lot of time and money educating their employees. Replacing them at the drop of a hat is not cost effective and reduces ROI. Good companies value long term employees, but regulations and changes in laws sometimes make it difficult. For example, we passed a minimum wage law in this state last night. My son will get a raise of sorts, but his boss will be forced to work the same number of hours for $300/month LESS to allow the company to pay the higher wage and not have to fire ANYONE. Her boss will be doing the same job and same hours but will loose $1,000/month.
That is not the result of a business that I’d a dictatorship, those are the CONSEQUENCES of poor laws and heavy regulation. Maybe we will be able to see everyone prosper in the coming years.
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“…his boss will be forced to work the same number of hours for $300/month LESS to allow the company to pay the higher wage and not have to fire ANYONE. Her boss will be doing the same job and same hours but will loose $1,000/month.”
Aww. Tell us what percentage of their salary that $300 and $1000 represent. Then tell us what the minimum wage was and is now. Does it mean that someone doesn’t need to work 2-3 jobs to support a family? Now in a really small business that would be quite a hit; for my husband 20-25% as a co-owner. If they limited it to employers of say 50 employees or more, I’m guessing that hit does not translate into an unreasonable burden,but I am no financial analyst. Is it really unreasonable to expect to pay people a living wage?
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Businesses are most certainly run as dictatorships. Boards rubber stamp CEOs and shareholders have little real control in publicly held companies which sometimes is played out in the media. Try walking into the CEO’s office and say you represent an opposition group of employees and want to negotiate a deal. Then pack your boxes. Also realize that the “free market” principles are about as real as unicorns. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have zombie businesses in many sectors supported by government policies. And good employees would be promoted, not relatives and cronies. Consumers could buy with transparency and parity. There’s the freshly minted MBA view of business, then there is reality.
Business rarely trains employees anymore or promotes based merit. Maybe a while ago or for a select few employees, but now businesses don’t even want to fund basic retirement or health care, let alone professional development. It is a move to the “gig economy”.
Trump hasn’t demonstrated business acumen as much as being born on third and the ability to exploit the system. Governing, unlike business, is not about profit and even Adam Smith acknowledges some need for a public sector. I highly doubt Trump being Trump is going to be able to handle opposition and governing.
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Businesses are run purely for PROFIT and for some decades the pressure to increase earnings EVERY QUARTER has caused most of the world’s economic disasters. Look at the Savings and Loan debacle of the early 1980s, and at the world wide depression/recession of 2007 to today. Look at how the rating agencies, which are paid by the corporations, cheated on their reports and deluded the world into investing in credit default swaps, and NO ONE was indicted for any of it but the thug who ran Countrywide.
Adam Smith’s theory was that individuals worked to sustain themselves, and that it was government’s job to help them do that. This theory is a far cry from current times when government colludes with business, rather than overseeing them, to produce hugely inflated profits for the benefit of only a few.
Come to sunny California Linda et al, and sit in on my classes on the History of Economics.
If Jaime Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein were not indicted by the Obama Dem DoJ, I shudder to think of what we are in for with a Trump Repub DoJ.
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And, Linda Giffin, you slam regulation as the culprit of job loss, but it was deregulation and loss of the Glass Steagal Act in 1999 which led to the failure of our economy, and the world’s economies….leading to the deepest and most devastating recession since 1929. You really need to educate your self before making these statements. Try reading Joseph Stiglitz, Freefall, as a starter,
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We saw how well it worked when they decided to run public schools like a business.
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To Linda Giffin:
Your gullibility and inhumane calculation enhance all con artists to manipulate and loot tax payers’ fund through tax loop-holes that are created for the “fabricated” rich to be REAL rich, like Eli Broad, Bloomberg, and Trump through real-estate manipulation of building and rental.
Yes, you can teach your children that it is THE LEGAL RIGHT to ROB contractors, to THREATEN illegal immigrant to work for pennies or free, or pay to work so that avoiding to be deported.
Yes, you can teach your children that it is perfect to LOOT the tax fund for your own gain and destroy the Public Education for the mass.
Yes, you can teach your children that it is secure to CONTRACT OUT your national security to the mob, mafia and fascism to protect your wealth and to harm the country. Please watch a movie “Jack Reacher” to have a vision how dangerous that all corrupted and contracting out kill all conscientious commanders and soldiers.
Please try to remember that corrupted spirit influence children to kill parents, and spouses to betray and harm other spouses. However, wisdom in kindness and civility will always conquer streetwise and maliciousness. Back2basic
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You got it… she is gullible because , she is ignorant. All Trumps businesses failed. The latest in Toronto is dying now. The only one he leearned from was Roy Cohen… how to attack anyone who disagrees with you.
Did you read my article?
http://www.opednews.com/articles/How-Could-This-Happen-The-by-Susan-Lee-Schwartz-Citizens_Democracy_Democrat_Election-161109-261.html
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Big hugs to May and Susan for being forthcoming and supportive. You always are on the right path, the humane path, IMO.
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May and you are spirit sisters. We see through. I am lucky to have met you,e veins it isin cyberspace. I am so very sad today, I cannot stop the tears…
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To my rational and oh so smart pals…please think now
Senator Al Franken for Prez in 2020.
He is a Harvard grad and has the best SOH in the Capitol.
And Al Franken is young enough to do the job and stay the course…and he is a progressive Dem who worked with us to elect Russ Feingold who sadly lost in Right Wing Wisconsin.
Russ must be in some political notch for his talents are so needed. I think he would fit perfectly as leader of the DNC.
So…Franken for Prez….Feingold for head of the DNC.
Get this movement going.
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I know the President-Elect will now stop saying it is a “rigged system,” but I have to wonder if it wasn’t “rigged” after all. I am remembering Rudy Guliani’s gleeful prediction two days before the first Comey letter. “We have a couple of things up our sleeves,” he gloated. Did he and his FBI cronies plot the placement of the bombshell letter that stopped Hillary’s momentum in its tracks? Days later when the 2nd letter arrived, Kellyanne O’Connell, Trump’s campaign manager shrugged it off…”the damage has been done now.” They stopped Hillary’s momentum and continued to play on the general mistrust and dislike of Hillary Clinton. I know people hated Hillary to begin with, and maybe that accounts for this new nightmare scenario, but I have this sense that we have all been played by the biggest con artist in America. The fact that he would call it “rigged” says to me that he thought it COULD be rigged…maybe he was the one doing the rigging in the background. We will never know now because there will never be an investigation into just what the heck Comey thought he was accomplishing with his meddling in the election. And I guess we will now not see any investigation into how much Russia had to do with wikileaks which provided the drip, drip, drip of mundane but damaging emails that showed the sometimes petty backdrop of one political campaign but not the other. I am sick this morning…not physically but at heart. I thought we were better than this as a nation. I trusted that we were. I was hoping against hope that we were. I am so sad to see I was so wrong.
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Kitty I agree with your statement: “I am sick this morning…not physically but at heart. I thought we were better than this as a nation. I trusted that we were. I was hoping against hope that we were. I am so sad to see I was so wrong.” My sentiments exactly. I was hoping that my fellow Americans would come to their senses and reject this horrible person but I was wrong. A huge chunk of Americans are quite comfortable with a fascist.
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Thank you Kitty for your accurate memory.i agree with all you say…and Assange and Putin are laughing hysterically at how he/they pulled it off. Today Putin says he looks forward to working with Trump toward a new alliance. OMG.
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Addendum…and Kitty and Joe, at least half of us are better than that.
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To Kitty Boitnott, PhD, NBCT, RScP:
I completely agree with you 1000%.
If we can watch closely Trump’s speech, then we realize that Trump’s adviser(s) like Gingrich, Manafort, Roger Ailes, Roger Stone, and many other malicious people behind voting centres cab do the damages = “rigged” to win at any cost.
Twice, I have noticed that Trump mention about “The Boss”, and “it is scary and dangerous in political games”. Trump cannot keep any secret that worries him regarding his look, his fame and his lust.
Have people noticed that trump’s youngest son’s facial expression on the stage where Trump accepts his winning presidency? Back2basic
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If we want a public school system for all, we will need to organize like never before. We are in for a tough ride. Rarely is the public ed community in agreement on how to achieve its objectives. A summit may be in order.
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Here is a hint…STOP watching corrupt CNN, MSNBC and the rest, stop reading New York Times and others like it, and stop listening to academia. Media and academia have been slanting news and education to further their ideology. Common sense has returned and a chance to get control of our government, which has grown too corrupt, too powerful and too expensive. President Elect Trump’s speech was uplifting and inclusive. He wants to bring all Americans together no matter their color race or religion. God Bless America!!
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Here’s a hint…STOP being stupid.
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And add to that, Linda…God HELP America.
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I’m curious: why should “god” bless America more so than any other country on the planet? I’ve never quite understood the logic. God is a disaster capitalist? I thought Jesus was for the little people.
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My question is “Which god?”
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To MPG:
Have you ever thought that you fought for the little people? By criticizing Hillary who has fought for the little people like women in pay equity and children in safe doses in medication in the past 40 years in politic career?
You and many other gullible people have fell into a corrupted trap from malicious GOP strategists’ fabricated stories. Back2basic
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Of course. You’re 100% right. What would I possibly know about neoliberalism or who has backed it her/his whole political career? After all, all the people who fight for the little people serve on the boards of corporations like WalMart and never criticize the company’s exploitation of people around the globe. It’s part of their clever strategy to become POTUS some day, when their true, noble character will be revealed.
Nothing to do with GOP propaganda. Facts she’s proud of. The Republicans never attack her for being a corpora-crat. Because all of them are, too.
But you’re 100% right. I’m just a dupe.
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m4potw,
You nailed it. MPG is exactly the type of Bernie supporter who Ailes/Rove et al targeted and they fell for it hook, line and sinker.
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May…..maybe ameliorate your last statement to hook, line, and STINKER’….though I am taken with the idea that God is a “disaster capitalist” and am making notes to write about that theme.
Also with logic and epistemology, if Jesus was for the little people, so perhaps with Trump (who Linda Giffin says is for the “little people”), this conflates and proves that tRump is the Second Coming…he is Jesus. Wow, critical thinking abounds here.
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“…stop listening to academia.” H-m-m-m. While I get annoyed by academics, aren’t teachers academics as well?
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They should be!
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I guess that tells us what momof5 thinks of teachers.
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Sad to say, the triumphant ideology in this country is far right wing libertarianism/Ayn Randism. They just won big in Congress and the presidency. The SCOTUS (and the lower courts) will be hard right wing for generations after Trump appoints all his horrors to the supreme court. Russ Feingold lost again to a libertarian Ayn Rand acolyte. Teachout lost.
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The true test will be when Trump is opposed, challenged, and doesn’t get his way. We may get a taste of this “uplifting” side of Trump.
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I’m sure he’ll be just as petulant as every Imperial POTUS of the last century. I’m not old enough to have heard FDR live, but I listened to his speeches or excerpts thereof. His comment to the steelworkers and the steelmill owners during a strike was, “A Plague on Both Your Houses!” a lift from Mercutio’s death speech in ROMEO & JULIET, and one I borrow regularly, particularly this year. Roosevelt wanted to pack the SCOTUS to get his way. Not exactly “democracy in action.” Was he WRONG to have wanted to do so? Or is that sort of thing only fascism when the “wrong” person does it?
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I didn’t vote for FDR, either.
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Okay, then. I certainly would have. Truman? Probably not. He did look good in a hat, though.
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MPG, I always find it odd that you can see the shades of grey in FDR but when it comes to Hillary, she’s not different enough from Trump to make you care at all which of those two repulsive candidate wins.
There was nothing in Hillary you thought could possibly be worth giving her a chance to be President. Or worth preventing Trump from becoming President.
Mystifying but fortunately, you aren’t experiencing anywhere near the anxiety the rest of us are since this is exactly what you expected – the victory of one indistinguishable and despicable candidate over another. Whether one won or the other won wasn’t going to change how you felt. I can’t imagine you feel any different today than two days ago. It’s all one and the same.
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Fine, you know best.
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Another Thomas Frank masterpiece:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/donald-trump-white-house-hillary-clinton-liberals
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Excellent article. Thanks for the link. It would be nice if the DNC and Democratic loyalists would read it.
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Diane- You just became even more important so I hate to use this word: Use GRIT to keep going, to keep informing all of us so we can lobby at US, State and local levels for sanity.
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Thank you, Gail.
Let’s be Churchillian. Never give up. Never. Never. Never.
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But let us not emulate the Churchill that compared Gandhi to Hitler and was sure that he was better than others because he was English.
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Dearest Dr. Ravitch:
Patience is the best virtue of all virtues as I recognize it in my old age.
You have shown your patience to all young (30-50) and inexperienced writers in your website.
It will take years in sufferance and a strong belief in humanity for ignorant people to be wise.
I really admire, respect and love you for your wisdom, dedication, and caring for American Public Education in a whole child education concept.
Very respectfully yours,
May King
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“Never give up” is the philosophy of our mentor, Diane Ravitch.
So consider the next election. I recommend a new chant…
Senator Al Franken for Prez in 2020.
He is a progressive from Harvard, with the best SOH in DC and so smart and focused.
Add to that…
Russ Feingold for head of the DNC
Russ is smarter and more progressive than Howard Dean, and quieter.. He can even handle John McCain…remember the best bill in Congress was/is, McCain Feingold, which showed them cooperating to devise a better system of managing our money.
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Thank you for being a role model. I am so tired of people telling me I can’t change anything, so I should just give up.
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Montana teacher,
You are fortunate to have a Governor who believes in public schools, not privatization.
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I didn’t vote for the man but one must now adjust their thinking. More than 50% of the American people selected him and we do live in a democracy. It is time to wish him well, stop attacking him, and offer what little bit of help we are capable of rendering. If you wish to despair, preach fear, and criticize him for the next four years, your life and those around you will be miserable.
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Popular vote, not so clear.
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Actually, he didn’t get 50% or more of the voters, let alone the eligible voters, as things last looked. But he got enough of the states: 31 to 19 at last count. Think about this: should someone who couldn’t carry 20 states be POTUS?
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Actually, Hillary won the popular vote. Trump is seeking to take away everything my wife and I worked for. Kinda hard to sing kumbaya and pay homage to the Orange One.
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The popular vote tally is not final. Clinton is ahead but only by about 160,000 and several states are still reporting.
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I’m seriously appalled by anyone who believes that a candidate who wins the popular vote (if she does) but carries 19/50 states deserves to be POTUS. But why NOT change the rules so that somehow or other, she’s crowned? The hell with 31 states.
And they say that Republicans are cheaters, liars, and bad losers. Yesterday wasn’t stolen from her. It was stolen from Bernie Sanders and the forces who oppose neoliberalism, neoconservatism, neocolonialism, and neoimperialism. The DNC gave us no viable option. Hillary ran on “I’m not HIM!!! Love me!!!” Trump ran on, “She couldn’t care less about you. I do.” Doesn’t matter if he lied like a rug: it was easy for a lot of disgruntled people to see it as true.
When I voted for Bill Clinton in ’92 and ’96, I was able to convince myself that he offered real positive change. We HAD to end the Reagan Era. But did we, really do that in electing him?
Voting for Obama was a pleasure in 2008. Not so much in 2012, but the alternative was intolerable, and he was a charming, brilliant person. Would have preferred a better option, but. . . ”
Yesterday was different: I hadn’t felt this rejected by my own party since ever. The Clinton camp made crystal clear what they thought of Berniecrats. They took his support, his hard work, but they didn’t appreciate it. They felt it was their due. Just as they felt my vote was, and her election was.
Hard to be more wrong, and it didn’t just cost the White House: cost an easy win in the Senate, a possible win in the House, loss of just about every gubernatorial race, and who knows how many down ballot races. For the love of Mike (my grandfather): Russ Feingold got CRUSHED in Wisconsin. Evan Bayh got crushed in Indiana. My execrable US Rep was reelected over a true progressive by a mile in western Washtenaw County (home of Ann Arbor).
The DNC blew it. They lost the trust and respect of the American people as a whole. Next time progressives tell you something, centrists and neoliberals, maybe you’ll listen. Though sadly, I doubt that you will.
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I agree with MPG’s comment wholeheartedly. We are not crowing. I have been mourning the loss of the Democratic Party for months. I blame them for this mess.
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You will excuse me if I wish that you would go “mourn” someplace else.
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Nope. You need us, 2old. I’m neither mourning nor gloating. But I’m no one’s willing punching bag. I think the time for mourning was the night HRC was nominated. After that, it’s all about trying to keep people in touch with reality. If you can’t handle the fact that Trump split the popular vote and won 31/50 states, you’re just going to make the same mistakes in 2018, 2020, and ever after. I’ve heard one person here hope for Michelle Obama in 2020. She’s a wonderful person, but she’s another neoliberal from what I see. And in case you missed it, yesterday’s referendum (and the GOP primaries, too) were decided against royal political families. No JEB! No Hillary. Probably not the time to dredge up a Kennedy or Carter or Johnson. Time to move forward.
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I didn’t say winning the popular vote should determine the president. Last I checked, Hillary was gaining more in the popular vote. Just pointing that out. And fair to mention Trump won without a majority of the popular vote (as he would have pointed out if he lost). There’s no mandate.
Democrats messed up, no question. Navel gazing now and kicking ourselves in the shorts for losing serves no purpose. Don’t be like Ohio after the Republicans swept into all offices. Democrats sat around pointing fingers, fracturing, and generally failing to regroup. So Ohio is still being run by a far right cabal while Dems wander in the wilderness.
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My brain hurts, too, Diane. In Australia we’re also trying to make sense of it: https://theeduflaneuse.com/2016/11/09/election_night/
Deb
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Thanks for this link to your poetic reflections…beautiful. May decide to join you. Could your nation accommodate one more professor, one more lawyer, one more journalist, and two great little boys?
Please stay in touch Deb. I am at
joiningforces2ed@aol.com
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I am a working class and left wing Canadian. If American I would have voted Bernie and only laterally supported HRC to block Trump but I hope the D’s use this whack upside the head to realize NAFTA was a giant mistake that destroyed working class gains that took a century to build.
HRC was far too close to Wall St and far too far from the workers. The Clintons are Dick Morris inspired chameleons who change policies as often as they change their shoes.
People respect Bernie types who are clean and consistent. The Clintons are dirty and inconsistent.
Karma.
D’s need to get their policies from AFL-CIO not Goldman Saks.
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IMO, Podesto, Hillary’s campaign manager, fits your description of changing shoes. The PR firm he founded, with his brother has, as CEO, a woman who, self-describes, as a former GOP political operative and deputy campaign manager for former governor, Jeb Bush. There’s a video posted on the internet showing Podesto with Jeb Bush, asking donors to fund campaigns of school privatizers.
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The DNC did this to themselves.
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Minor correction Yvonne…DNC did this to all of us. Let’s urge, demand, Russ Feingold to head the DNC.
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Bill Gates went down to big defeats in Washington. The climate denier that he wanted for judge, lost. The judges that he didn’t want, all won, Madsen, Yu, and Wiggins.
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Reykdahl has the lead over her rephormer-funded opponent, in the election for Washington’s Chief of Instruction.
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All good news. Thanks for the info, Linda!
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Linda,
Thanks for the good news from Washington State!
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In Montana, our Democratic school superintendent candidate lost to a Republican one for the first time in decades. I think it’s because the Democratic candidate (following the lead from the teachers’ union and from the current superintendent) was actively pro-Common Core.
The Republican candidate questioned Common Core and called for local control. (Interestingly, while Montana votes Republican in presidential races, Democrats have won state races in the past several elections. But not this time.)
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But this Republican winner could bring in charters and vouchers, which Montana does NOT have yet.
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It is time for caring people to work harder to elect better state and local candidates and make sure as technology alters the world of work no one is forgotten. We begin again with a deeper sense of our failures and our opportunities to build a better nation in the next decade.
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Well the market is up .
You just elected the populist leader of the REPUBLICAN party . Think Wall Street is up set .Think again . There was only one thing more delusional than thinking Republicans were going to vote for Hillary . That was the Democratic Party making the decision to abandon Unions and the American working class /middle class for Wall Street cash.
That is no more apparent anywhere, than in the education wars . Who has been a more loyal supporter of the Democrats than the AFT/NEA . Obama kicked them in the teeth.
Burn this party down and start over.
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Here is what the New York Times had to say:
…However, as Mr. Trump offered his victory speech in New York — eschewing the crude and divisive rhetoric that has brought him accusations of racism and misogyny in favor of congratulating his vanquished opponent, Hillary Clinton, and calling for unity — the markets began a steady climb back. By midday in London, stocks were roughly where they had begun, though they remained down sharply in Spain, and moderately down in France and Germany.
The dollar had largely recovered its losses. Wall Street appeared relatively calm at the beginning of trading.
Even so, the initial stampede for the exits resonated as recognition that a vast range of policies framing global commerce — from trade to immigration to defense to climate change — were now subject to a potentially radical refashioning.
It is said frequently that what markets crave more than anything is certainty. The world suddenly seems in dire shortage of that….
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There is a certainty that 3 trillion dollars of un taxed profits are going to be brought home free and clear to be distributed as dividends.
Nobody cares about future profits they dump their holdings in nano seconds. Nobody cares about the long term health of American corporations they wont be there for the reckoning .
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There are more mutual funds and hedge funds than there are companies in which to invest. Stock market swings are smoke.
Enron was the 6th largest company in the U.S., before the core fraud of its business model, was uncovered.
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Last night, the market futures were down 800 points. They almost have come back as corporations realize that Trump will cut their taxes.
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Absolutely correct analogy to Enron, Linda. Their fraud not only brought down the economy in the 1990s but also gave California Arnie, the Austrian Groper.
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I’m certainly surprised, and yet there are ways in which I’m not. In particular, I hope the next time the DNC decides to: 1) completely alienate the real progressive wing of the party, it kills itself first and cedes power to non-solipsists who understand that Democrats cannot win without their left-wing; 2) no Democrat ever again has the temerity to call his/her opponent’s supporters, even a “fraction” of them, “deplorables.” If you think this loss can be laid at the feet of progressives, the numbers don’t support that. But there is already ample evidence that a lot of people, not all of whom are stone-cold racists, didn’t care for how they were being characterized by someone who – for good reason or not – was viewed as an elitist.
Sanders supporters tried hard for a year or so to warn the DNC that HRC was NOT electable, that she was too despised by too many people on the right and the left, that she was unable to connect with independents and progressives, and that regardless of the alleged reality of her clean hands, she was viewed as dirty and untrustworthy, far more so than her likely opponent. Trump was a non-politician, and that gave him an edge. Clinton was viewed as the ultimate DC insider. That put two-and-a-half strikes against her in the minds of tens of millions of people.
I’m not happy that Trump won. I couldn’t be. But I wouldn’t have been happy if Clinton won. People like me didn’t really matter in this election, as the DNC and Team Clinton made crystal clear. We couldn’t have won it for her anyway. But a smarter politician would have done a vastly better job of embracing us and also embracing independents who wanted Bernie, and of not flat-out denigrating Trump’s base. Bernie Sanders would NEVER have called them names. He would have run against the oligarchs, not the people whose frustrations with trade and the economy he would have understood and been able to appeal to. That would have gotten him over Trump, with a united Democratic Party of ALL wings behind him.
It’s the V8 commercial: “Wait a minute! I could have had a President Sanders! [smacks forehead] We told you.
I’m not gloating. I’m hoping that Trump’s victory speech was at least 10% sincere.
As for “what do we do now?” the answer has been clear since July:
“Don’t mourn, organize.” Maybe this time the Democratic center will wake up.
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The Democratic party needs to reflect on what happened and make changes. Not only did they ignore the progressive wing of the party, they alienated the labor base. Democrats have stood on the sidelines and watched union membership decline from 22% under Clinton to just under 12% today. They have supported free trade deals that have hurt the working class. Even if union leadership went for HRC, many rank and file members voted for Trump. The Democrats should stop pandering to Wall St. and corporations and supporting working families with more than rhetoric. The Democrats have an identity crisis.
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The GOP ignores progressives, hates progressives, demonizes progressives and keeps winning everything. Let’s put the blame where it belongs: on a huge chunk of the American electorate that just loves far right wing quasi fascists. The US has become a right wing country, one big Oklahoma or Missouri.
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No, it hasn’t, Joe. You just forgot all the states between Pennsylvania and the Gulf, between the Northeast and the west coast.
A lot of folks got screwed under GWB, but things didn’t improve for them much under BHO. He broke countless promises, and HRC ran on the idea of being Obama+. People generally vote with their pocketbooks, though not exclusively so. The country (most of it) gave Obama 8 years. The weren’t willing to give him 4 more, or else HRC was so repugnant to too many people that they couldn’t swallow their doubts and vote for her to continue his work.
From my perspective, that’s hardly an entirely wrong-headed decision. The problem is that Trump isn’t go to make things better for them, either. But given only two main options, they took Burger King over McDonalds. Maybe someday they won’t opt for fast food, but it wasn’t yesterday. Telling them how much better McDonalds would have been only works if they haven’t already been on that diet for a long time. Getting them to realize that BOTH diets are horrid for them? That takes longer.
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Well said
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Seems to me that the DNC has been doing a swell job of denigrating and alienating workers for so long, they’ve forgotten what the party was built upon after 1929. By the time Jack Kennedy took office in 1961, I’m afraid the die had already been cast. It doesn’t HAVE to be that way, but there’s so much entropy to undo after decades of GOP propaganda and Democratic actualization of same.
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Joe,
The US is one big Indiana!
The defeats of John Gregg, Evan Bayh and Glenda Ritz in the Hoosier state were primarily the results of Citizens United monies.
Happened similarly nation wide.
Add in voter suppression campaigns on a nationwide scale, gerrymandering honed to perfection, Comey’s last minute exquisite little contribution, DWS blind allegiance to HRC, HRC’s general trust and likeability issues and a voting bloc that came straight off the couch from watching too many Duck Dynasty reruns…voila! The 2016 general election in a nutshell…The perfect storm.
Not forgetting the oodles of dollars that major media GAVE in coverage to Trump during the primaries and before. A total cluster f#@$ waiting to happen
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Trump is a nightmare. Maybe he will implode on himself. Guess Trump gets a pass re: his failed business ventures and building that wall.
While I was NEVER a Trump supporter, your comment: “Maybe this time the Democratic center will wake up” speaks volumes. I totally. AGREE.
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The DNC will not wake up. It will draw the wrong conclusion from this debacle, it will move further rightward. That’s where the money is, the money that bribes most of our politicians.
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Sadly, I agree. Which suggests that we need to kick them over to the GOP where they belong and reclaim the party for the people.
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I was hoping to start Hillary bashing this morning. No one can blame the progressive wing of the party for this debacle . Stein got little to no vote . The overwhelming majority of progressives realized what was at stake in this election and begrudgingly stood with Hill , worked for Hill . Yes this was so predictable, the democratic Center has been the Republican Party . This isn’t Steal the Flag, Red vs Blue, political parties have to mean something. For years now it has been clear whose interests the Republicans have represented .Their appeal to the working class has always been based on racial divisions. While they represented the interests of the one percent.
The Democrats on the other hand represented the perhaps the top 10 % at the expense of the bottom 80% (pick your own dividing lines)
The republicans baited Democrats into fighting on social issues rather than economic issues as they took power in state after state.
They will become the party of the left and the 80% or they will fade into irrelevance .
The American people deserve a clear vision from both parties and as always its the “economy stupid “
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How do you explain that Hillary’s platform adopted nearly all of Bernie’s positions?
How do you explain that I heard Hillary at the debate give a passionate defense of social security? It was far different than the wishy-washy Republican lite “we have to reform it by cutting benefits or privatizing it” that Obama offered.
Hillary ran on a very liberal platform. So she either lost BECAUSE of that liberal platform, or she lost because no one believed she would enact that liberal platform.
I suspect since you like the Bernie-adopted platform that you don’t really believe voters were rejecting that.
So obviously, we know voters were rejecting HER. They did not believe she would enact the platform.
Although you could argue that it was a rejection of the platform itself as too liberal. After all, Russ Feingold went down. Voters didn’t like what he offered enough.
I tend to believe that voters rejected Hillary more than the liberal platform, same as they rejected Feingold. It’s a shame because she is quite good at enacting legislation and the progressives missed a huge opportunity here that may not come around for decades. And that includes the Supreme Court.
And yes, I blame progressives. Nor for voting for whoever they felt like voting for. But for constantly providing “proof” to the media that everything that Trump was saying about “crooked Hillary” was true. That influenced far more Trump voters that you realize. Some of them — the ones who supposedly “might have voted for Bernie”, would have had a chance to look at Clinton’s platform and said “wait, this is Bernie’s platform”. And would have listened when Bernie told them it was.
Instead, every one of her policies was drowned out by the Crooked Hillary meme. And there’s no way the press could have embraced it so fully without being able to say “even these Democrats know it is true”.
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MPG, you truly live in an alternate reality.
Hillary Clinton adopted nearly ALL of Bernie’s policies. Your insistence that they ignored you is pure poppycock. Seriously, have you no sense of history? I have seen primary candidates being ignored and I cannot fathom how you are so personally offended. What should have been done?
For the Berniebots, nothing short of Hillary conceding the primary to Bernie was going to be enough. That’s the bottom line.
You took this personally. I truly do not understand why but I will say again and again that maybe if your feeling weren’t hurt so easily, the Republicans would not have been able to paint Hillary as “crooked Hillary”. It certainly did not work with “Crooked Obama” when they tried it in 2008 but then you Bernie bots weren’t out in force to reinforce it and reinforce it and reinforce it and reinforce it. And Hillary’s voters said “we’ll live to fight another day and do what’s best for the country”. They did not say, “Obama is no difference than McCain, we can’t trust him”. I’m sure Roger Ailes would have LOVED to have the disaffected Hillary voters repeating his anti-Obama meme. What a shame they weren’t as gullible as Bernie bots.
The irony is that when Obama was running against John McCain, there probably was not a lot of difference! It’s not like Hillary and Trump.
Oh yes, I forgot, you shout down anyone who dares to question your belief that whether Trump or Hillary wins DOESN’T MATTER.
I really think you should be going around the country explaining to all the sad children that their lives will be EXACTLY the same as they are if Clinton won. No difference. It may not be good, but they were completely deluded by their parents into thinking that Clinton would not be just as horrifying. You can reassure them of your absolute belief that she would have been just as bad.
I’m sure there’s a big market for people like you, just telling us all the truth.
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Thanks for your wise and sobering words Diane. It will take an extraordinary effort, and perhaps as the young man said another four years, for oh so many of us to make any sense at all of this deeply disturbing redefinition of who we are as a nation.
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The United States, historically flawed but, one of noble ideals, now defines itself, as “To the victor, go the spoils.”
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Funny, I couldn’t find that in the Constitution.
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Not in the Constitution and, specifically, illegal.
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True. And does this election smell like something spoiled.
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I’m sorry but Trump benefited from a “Rigged” system in which minority’s and the very poor’s votes are suppressed by laws passed since the Republican Thugs took over our state governments. My vote isn’t even equal to votes cast in other states. I live in Michigan and my vote is worth a 1.125 share of our electoral vote, but if I lived in Alaska, Montana, Wyoming, North or South Dakota, Vermont, Maine, Delaware, or the District of Columbia my vote would be a share of 3 electoral votes! This election is Rigged and if Trump thought he got all the angry white votes this time, I’m angry, male, and white and I am starting to work for the next election in two years to “Take My Country Back” from the Fasists!
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Kenneth E Kolk
Nobody was prevented from voting . There were attempts they were turned back by the courts. Lets stop making excuses for the Democrats, excuses for the Clintons/Obama . I was at the Democracy
awakening march in Washington. One of the main focuses was voter rights . Those whose rights were under assault were not there. As they were not at the polls yesterday in the numbers required to defeat fascism. No excuses if you want your issues to matter you vote.
This election was not lost in Florida, in North Carolina not in Georgia. or Arizona . It was lost in the once great industrial heartland of this nation . The legislation that exacerbated those losses was signed by by a Democratic President named Clinton . Doubled down on by a Democratic President named Obama in the face of opposition by the vast majority of the base of the party and the mood of the nation.
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Hear, hear, Joel.
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I see. Trump “stole” it from Hillary. Not true, but if so it would be poetic justice given the Democratic primaries. But the conventional wisdom here is that she won fair and square. I do understand how the thinking goes. I’m not distorting anything by saying the above. Just reflecting precisely the comments I’ve read here (and elsewhere) about “rigging.” Sanders people are INSANE to suggest that HRC and the DNC conspired to give her every edge, and then cheated at every opportunity. But when Clinton folks suggest that Trump cheated, that’s just common sense. I see.
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In the states that you named, we rarely even get a presidential visit during campaign season. Our few electoral votes mean almost nothing to the candidates, who spend all their time in battleground states addressing battleground state issues. Where was Hillary Clinton during the Standing Rock Indian Tribe’s protest of the North Dakota pipeline? As far as I know, this important protest has the greatest number of people from different tribes ever gathered. Jill Stein came.
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If Hillary had won Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin – all deindustrialized states largely ignored by the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party – she would be President-elect today. Instead, we have you-know-who…
Thomas Frank is right: the abandonment of the working class by Democratic Party elites, typified by the Clintons, led directly to this self-inflicted train wreck, and the Dems can’t blame Ralph Nader and the Greens this time.
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AGREE! The DEMS own this one.
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As they should have done in 2000, but no, there was a scapegoat. “Ain’t our fault”-sssmmmhhhh!
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No, it won’t be Ralph Nader: it will be Sanders (who cares that he worked tirelessly for her?), Stein, the Greens, the Sanders stalwarts like me, independents, racists, xenophobes, homophobes, and, of course, misogynists (including “self-hating” women who wouldn’t vote for Hillary). I was getting unfriended on Facebook and accusatory emails from people I’ve know for 50+ years, even before it was clear that Hillary had lost.
Of course, it’s my fault. I never sounded a warning against Hillary’s nomination as a losing move, against alienating, disdaining, rejecting, ignoring progressive Democrats and Independents as a losing move, I just sat quietly by as I was urged to do by the above-referenced friends and countless others. I’m mousy, as they knew, so it was easy to cow me into silence.
Oh, wait. That’s not how I acted at all.
And who elected Donald Trump? It couldn’t have strictly been white, male, Republicans. He got nearly exactly half the votes and carried 31 of 50 states. That’s more white, male Republicans than there are in the nation. A woman here, a non-white there, a non-Repub or two. And it added up. Big time. Clinton carried exactly ONE county in Michigan north of Lansing. One. And a tiny one at that, in the UP. Speaks volumes in a state that went for Sanders in the primary. Didn’t do that with smoke and mirrors, either.
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Agreed and always have ,to a great degree . A non white here and there how about 29% of the Hispanic vote.
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Agreed. The Democrats have ignored the plight of blue collar workers and have promoted trade deals that cost us many jobs.
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Far more than Blue collar workers .
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Hear, hear, RT
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Feingold lost in Wis.? The two Democrats for Ohio Supreme Court lost. It suggests Democratic abandonment but, is it (1) the voters who abandoned (2) the Party or, (3) the party replacement, candidate-centered apparatuses?
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Russ Feingold lost again to a far right wing/libertarian Ayn Rand acolyte. Geeze, what the hell is going on in Wisconsin?
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As workers lost their union jobs watched communities crumbling around them. Their entire world view changes. Their willingness to exhibit compassion for others diminishes . Lets even give the benefit of the doubt and say that none of them have become the deplorable s on the right. They stayed home
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This comes from Politico:
Headline: President-elect Trump due to appear in court at trial starting later this month
The Republican nominee will have to juggle his legal headaches as he prepares for the White House.
By JOSH GERSTEIN 11/09/16 04:13 AM EST
Before Donald Trump raises his right hand to take the oath of office in January, he’s set for a less-auspicious swearing-in: taking the witness stand in his own defense in a federal court civil trial over alleged fraud in his Trump University real estate seminar program.
Trump faces a legal ordeal no president-elect has ever encountered: juggling defending himself before a jury with preparing for the vast challenges a political novice will face in assuming the presidency.
And the class-action case set for trial the Monday after Thanksgiving is just one of a plethora of lawsuits and threatened suits Trump was entangled in during the campaign—litigation that doesn’t seem likely to disappear anytime soon and might even intensify with Trump headed to the White House.
In addition to several suits over Trump University, Trump has threatened lawsuits against a dozen or more women who’ve accused him of sexual impropriety in recent months—and several of those women have threatened to countersue if he comes after them.
There’s also a New York state investigation into his charitable foundation and a reported federal investigation into some of his advisers’ ties to Russia…
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I love this country. Always have even in its darkest times. Would not, will not live anywhere else on this planet. But, I was once a very, very proud American. NO longer. The leadership this country has had over the last two hundred plus years just went out the window. I served in the military for over twenty years as an NCO and Officer. And, I was proud and privileged to do so. Now, I could not, would not serve for a person like Trump as Command-in-Chief. I would resign my commission as an officer first.
We now have a person who will be in the White House who is a racist, sexist, bully, lacks all skills as a diplomat, and cares nothing for the majority of the American people–only himself and his wealthy friends — 1%er’s. RESPECT is a word that Trump does not understand nor what it actually means when dealing with others. We can kiss the Supreme Court goodby. Women can kiss their civil rights goodbye. Immigrants who have helped to make this country great had better look out.
Frankly, women and men who voted for Donnie Boy Trump must believe that all women should be treated as whores and chattel. They must also believe the only way to get things done is through bullying and scare tactics. I think at the moment Donnie Boy is sworn in there should be a collective moment of silence across American.
Yes, we live in a democracy but living in democracy means electing people who will do right by ALL people — not just a select few. It has been a very long time since that has happened. No, the stock market will probably not crash but the everyday people who actually get things done in this country do not all live by what happens in the stock market but will be the ones paying the price for what is ahead in the next four years. And, that price can and may be very, very high.
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Either of them winning would have been a bitter pill for me to swallow. Diane, I respect you a lot, but Hillary has been all in on corporate education reform since 1983. While Trump may support charters and vouchers that does not translate into that happening. Whereas a Hillary victory would have continued all that is bad about the rest of public education. And my own personal lining: now there is no chance in hell Delaware Governor Jack Markell will be the next U.S. Secretary of Education or Labor. I truly believe that if Bernie won in the primary he would have won. Or even Joe Biden.
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Democrats had an opportunity to choose Bernie. They totally blew it. Bernie would have won.
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What? Can’t have no socialist commie pinko in the WH!
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Bernie didn’t win the nomination.
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I need to have a facetious font!
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If you find one, please do share, Duane. I’d seriously pay for one.
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And Clinton did not win the election. People my cry about the process, but it IS the process. Would be interesting to know how often a Democrat won under similar circumstances.
The Electoral college was put in place by the founders of the nation. EACH congress can make the necessary changes (In the prescribed ways), But none have done so. Cold it be, possibly, maybe, that those who oppose it this time might worry about needing it the next election cycle?
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The only elections in my lifetime where the winner lost the popular vote was 2000 and 2016. We got George W. Bush and Donald Trump.
It also happened in 1876, but that was before my time.
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If Trump out stages George Bush, then we’ll have more than just two new wars to deal with before he leaves the White House, or dies from old age if he refuses to leave after 4 to 8 years (but then one of his son’s might take over without an election), and another global financial crises, or more than one, to recover from. Think, Bush started the war in Iraq with lies of WMDs. But that one lie doesn’t even come close to compare with the master of lies, tRUMP. I warn you not to imagine, or you might lose lots of sleep, what kind of mess tRUMP will get the U.S. into with his endless lies, insults, and serial sexual abuse of women.
Oh, and before I forget, tRUMP said he plans to fix the national debt by basically filling for bankruptcy to get rid of it.
Guess who owns most of that national debt?
International Investors only own 34 percent of the national debt. The rest is owned by Americans. Bankrupting the U.S. to get rid of the national debt would hurt American citizens far more than, for instance, China or Saudi Arabia.
An example: The federal government owes Social Security for a couple of trillion of that debt, much more than what the U.S. owes China, because Congress borrowed money from Social Security to pay for defense and the wars in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.
“Debt held by federal accounts is not considered public debt – it is the amount of money that the Treasury has borrowed from itself. That may sound funny, but it means that the Treasury borrows surplus money from one trust fund and gives it to another trust fund. For example, the Treasury might borrow money from Social Security to finance current government spending in another area. At a later date, the government must pay that borrowed money back. Federal accounts currently hold 28% of the national debt.”
China only owns between 6.5 – 7 percent of the national debt.
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/campaigns/us-federal-debt-who/
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SS has been the piggy bank for decades, much further back than Gulf wars. Ten seconds:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/aug/03/facebook-posts/did-george-w-bush-borrow-social-security-fund-war-/
Apart from that, the market has gained the 700 – PLUS…
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I’d like to agree that Bernie would have won but, Tim Canova lost to the national Democratic Party chair, in the Fla. primary, Feingold just lost in Wisconsin and, Teachout lost in N.Y. – all progressives.
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But without a progressive, and a unifying one who would never had said or thought, “Deplorables” in reference to anyone but the oligarchs, leading the fight. That mattered. A lot. You can’t run a truly divisive, polarizing candidate on a unifying platform and expect it to fly.
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Adding- a neoliberal in Silicon Valley (Obama guy) beat out a progressive. Note: In California, the top 2 from the primaries, move to the Nov. ballot.
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Trump got a lot of mileage out of belittling Clinton’s long tenure in Washington. Would he have tagged Bernie, with the same? Trump sold himself as a guy who gets things done. Voters apparently appreciate a man making products cheaply in Mexico, enticing people to enroll in Trump U., getting his foundation to pay for personal items?, submitting tax returns without paying taxes?, having creditors absorb losses, etc.
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Of course they do, because they’ve been told over and over that the other candidate is a crook. “Even Bernie’s supporters know she is a crook”. No redeeming qualities at all. She won’t do anything for you, she’s in it all for herself.
Hillary Clinton won (likely) more than half the vote DESPITE some of the most despicable slurs in history. She had the FBI announce a fake investigation that came after 8 Congressional investigations and an earlier FBI investigation. All which found nothing. Not a thing. The Republicans’ ability to make the server into a crime was despicable. it was not. And if Clinton had used AOL or the DNC server, as Republicans did without anyone caring, she would have been attacked for being so stupid to trust such insecure servers.
She was slimed with erasing her personal e-mails while the Republicans erased ALL their e-mails. Including work ones. And said “just try to sue us to get them”.
Bernie knew this. He knew he had an honest disagreement with Hillary about policy, but they were not so different. He knew that the Republicans were trying to lay trumped up charges on her. But his supporters did not. If only they had been unwilling to be pawns in the Republicans slime machine, just like Bernie refused to be part of it. But his supporters insisted that Bernie was lying to them and they knew best.
We had a candidate who performed terribly in a debate, who held a RNC that was a mass of pure hatred, and who had blatantly lied about Obama’s birth certificate and Ted Cruz’ dad. Just blatantly lied.
And he won. Because people thought Hillary wasn’t trustworthy. There is no way that RNC could have done that hit job with out the Berniebots and the media. Maybe the media alone would have done it, but the Berniebots sure helped them do it.
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Exactly.
Todd Gitlin’s: What’s Behind the Hillary Hatred Syndrome? is a really a smart analysis, . “The media obsession damaged her reputation, but the obsessives were not original: They were cringing before the Republicans’ tar-and-feather job —the fixation on emails, which had long been an addiction among Republicans and the right-wing media, suddenly became an addiction in the mainstream media as well. According to a Lexis-Nexis search, The New York Times, to cite one example, had seven stories that month with “Clinton” and “emails” in the headline. More important, most news sources reported erroneously that Clinton was the subject of a criminal investigation by the FBI.”
… “a secretary of state is not a president! She is a former secretary of state running for president… Clinton had to face long-drawn-out accusations of vastly greater malfeasance than when the 1983 bombing of the American Marine barracks in Beirut resulted in the killing of 241 American servicemen and women. After that massacre, conducted on Ronald Reagan’s watch, a single Democratic House subcommittee conducted a six-week-long investigation. After the killings of the four Americans in Benghazi, the Republican-led House conducted seven investigations, one of which lasted three years; the Republican-led Senate conducted another one.”
http://billmoyers.com/story/hillary-hatred-revisited/
Nick Kristoff, says in an article about her strengths:
”One of the great misperceptions of this political year, among many Democrats and Republicans alike, is that Hillary Clinton is a third-rate candidate with no core or convictions” He goes on to say: “The public perception of her seems to me a gross and inaccurate caricature. I don’t understand the venom, the “lock her up” chants, the assumption that she is a Lady Macbeth; it’s an echo of the animus a lifetime ago some felt for Eleanor Roosevelt.(When Roosevelt spoke up for Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor, a letter in The Los Angeles Times thundered: ‘When she starts bemoaning the plight of the treacherous snakes we call Japanese (with apologies to all snakes), she has reached the point where she should be forced to retire from public life.’ Strong women sometimes drive people nuts.) In fact, what makes Hillary Clinton tick has always been a 1960s-style idealism about making the world a better place!”
“Media organizations [which] followed the lead of Republicans whose bitter partisanship was, and remains, unparalleled — “consider the flood of abuse directed by the Republicans at Hillary Clinton over the Benghazi deaths of Ambassador Chris Stevens and three colleagues in 2012. Raked over the coals by Republican inquisitors in Congress who could never make a case that she had acted wrongly in Libya — and who, for that matter, never acknowledged that they had cut security funds for American embassies”
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Just checked with 99 percent of votes reporting.
Donald Trump won the Electoral College but not the popular vote.
DT – 59,611,678
HC – 59,814,018
GJ – more than 4 million
JS – more than 1.2 million
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=who%20won%20the%20popualr%20vote%20in%202016&eob=enn/p//0/1///////////
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In Trumpland, Moore didn’t blame Berniebots, in his anticipation of a Trump win, he attributed most of the win to Brexit state attitudes about Democratic support for TPP. Moore also addressed the unwarranted hatred of Hillary, which likely did keep a portion of millennials from voting. Other analysts, post mortem, described a lack of Black turnout. The DNC could have allowed Ohio’s Nina Turner to talk at the convention as scheduled but, apparently Bloomberg’s endorsement was more important.
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Don’t forget right to work laws, which will now be federalized. The only thing left is our ability to organize, and our ability risk everything – including death – for something greater. I can’t say how far gone the education system will be in 4 years, but I have a stronger vision that if Trump has his “Morining in America” reelection landslide then everything will be over if union leadership and rank & file don’t radicalize. Current union leadership has more than acquiesced to the Democratic Technocrats, disasterously so. Hopefully now it will be crystal clear that the democratic party is where progressivism – or anything Left – goes to die.
I’m willing to bet that there will be a bigger divide between charter school unionization and public teacher unions, assuming that there’s some successes in charter school unionization. This is dangerous. It must be nipped in the bud if we want any resemblance of decent education in our future.
I have a sister who now is looking for work in Canada because of this election, as well as many other twitter people I follow. There’s a certain “whiteness” to this that I find totally obnoxious (perhaps it falls under white privilege?). It costs a ton of money to relocate to another country, which many lower class/working class/poor/people of color cannot do. A younger, more horrible, me would have salivated at the thought. Now, after following the most leftist twitter people I know of, which still includes you, Diane, for the past 5 years, abandoning the less fortunate would be a disgusting and immoral act. I literally feel that indebted to working class/people of color/poor. They made my life possible, even in ways I might not have thought of. I need to return the favor.
I’m writing this as someone who is at a crossroads in life. I’m not happy with who I am. Currently, I’m considering on going back to school and looking at becoming a public school teacher. I’ve subbed numerous times — and I’m always a nervous wreck when I do. But when the kids or teens remember me, and talk about their lives and whatever else, the human connection is incredibly powerful. It hurts.
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“There’s a certain “whiteness” to this that I find totally obnoxious (perhaps it falls under white privilege?).”
Allow this mansplaining white supposedly privileged male to respond to that: Horse Manure.
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I see those Democratic Party fault lines forming…
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Duane, you know where this has GOT to go for some people. They’ll just never face the reality that brought about yesterday as a direct response to neoliberalism’s failure to correct the economic wrongs of the previous 20+ years. Obama, had he had any courage and commitment to the people, could have undermined a nation’s racism by standing up for the workers, the lower middle class, and the spat-upon minorities. Instead, he managed to continue to wage foreign wars, decrease transparency, drag his feet on social justice issues, and mostly knuckle-under from Day 1 to corporate bankster America.
Folks seriously expected the majority of Americans to vote for that on steroids? If Sanders lost to Trump, that would have been the time to look at something other than “It’s the economy, stupid!” But we didn’t have the chance to see if a real inclusive progressive could win over a lot of blue collar people to join his progressive revolution. Or if the DNC centrists and neoliberals who screamed at Berniecrats to abandon him BEFORE THE FIRST PRIMARY VOTE WAS CAST! would have shown party loyalty. I wouldn’t have expected them to.
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Claro, Sr. MPG. Exacto.
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Like I said, I see those Democratic fault lines forming.
Looking backwards will do no good. If Democrats hope to have a chance in 2020 or even 2018, it is a good strategy to move forward.
So, yeah, Obama sold many progressives out and Hillary was Obama 2.0. Yeah, I am angry at Democrats for missing opportunities. I’ll go punch a pillow, do some tai-chi, and drink a good Merlot. But, wow. Time to move forward.
So, now the question for Democrats is “what next?”. What is the strategy moving forward? Is it a party based on race and gender? Or can Dems be prepared to reach out to all working Americans, especially the non-deplorable Trump supporters when they realize Trump is an incompetent farce? That I would be very interested in seeing.
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Vale Math – yes, those are good questions for the Democrats. But I’m not one. Another question the Democrats need to be asking themselves is do they need people like me (and, given what happened yesterday, apparently they do)? If so, what are they going to do to get people like me? I don’t have to do a lot of soul searching about what to do differently going forward – I’m going to continue to do exactly what I did yesterday, which is to vote for the candidates who best reflect my values and the policies which I believe to be best for this country. The Democrats need to ask themselves whether they need my vote or Wall Street’s money more.
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Well stated Dienne, especially:
“I don’t have to do a lot of soul searching about what to do differently going forward – I’m going to continue to do exactly what I did yesterday, which is to vote for the candidates who best reflect my values and the policies which I believe to be best for this country.”
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Michael Paul Goldengerg, Dienne, and Duane,
You are such excellent thinkers and wrtiers and I could not agree with you more on all your points in this thread. The Democrats are a dead party. They have abandoned the working classes. Nothing noble about that.
You expect the villainous GOP to be villains; but you do not expect the good guy Democrats to be villains also. Well, they are. Let’s call t spade a spade.
Time to found a new party. Time for a Bernie-like resurgence.
Time for growth.
Being asleep at the wheel all these years has finally made many a driver crash into the service road. Great time to wake up and smell the apathy and ignorance.
America just got its own Brexit, in a sense. I am horrified that Trump won and the GOP controls the legislative branch.
But it’s never too late to start . . . . or continue a revolution.
Susan Schwartz, you are a brilliant thinker also!
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Don’t forget that the GOP is soon going to control the U.S. Supreme Court with a conservation majority too. For the next few years, the GOP will soon control all three branches of the US government. The next chance to change that will be in two years and if the voters leave them in power in Congress, then four years and maybe eight.
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The Supreme Court will be conservative for many years if Trump gets more than one pick.
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Ginsberg will have to live until shes 87 or 91 to make it to the next president who might be another Republican. She can’t live forever.
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Thank you for the kind words, NF.
Since this will be my last post here for a while, particularly on the topic of the election, I need to reach out to Dienne. Please consider sending me an email: mikegold@umich.edu I would like to share something with you that I do not want to post to the list.
As for my favorite lunatics: sad commentaries on the inability of enraged bigots (we have the left of center, too) to read what’s in front of their faces and not distort it into something utterly different in order to “win” an argument with yourselves. Do you seriously believe you can beat someone by rewriting what s/he’s actually said in a way that is absurdly stupid, and that intelligent readers will go, “Damn, the guy must have really said that because. . . I’m too lazy and intellectually bankrupt to check it out myself!” Probably not for anyone not already a true believer in your cause.
So once and for all: I have never said that things will be the SAME regardless of who wins. I’ve never said that Trump and Clinton are indistinguishable. Anyone who writes that I have is a shameless liar. And we do have a couple of people here who seem incapable of sticking to the truth if it would be too painful for them to do so.
What I did say, in essence, was that I wouldn’t be happier with one than the other. Or to put it another way, I would be unhappy with both. Second, I don’t think the abandoned poor kids of Detroit (abandoned by EVERY POTUS in their lives, including the black one still in office) will be better off under Clinton than under Trump. That’s not equivalent to: “Things will be the same under both.” Or anything of the kind. Screwed is screwed. Abandoned, ignored, ill-served doesn’t feel better when the person doing it is black, or female, or a Democrat, then if it’s a white male Republican. But then I actually spent years in those schools in Detroit, Pontiac, Flint, etc., rather than pontificating from afar about the wonders of HRC. Obama avoided driving through the parts of Detroit I worked in (or was conveniently kept away them). He should apologize to the children and senior citizens and adults of Detroit for that.
Clinton and Trump ignored the water crisis in Flint. Oh, sure, Hillary showed up to try to make her case to black people in Michigan to beat Bernie Sanders. It didn’t work, she lost, and she never followed up to see if Gov. Snyder and his posse fixed things. They didn’t. It’s criminal. Where’s Obama? States’ rights? POTUS has no power over a governor? Anyone remember Kennedy sending troops to the south to fight governors who tried to block integration? I do, and I was just a kid. One of the most admirable things a president of the United States did in my lifetime. But the people of Flint being poisoned to save $$? Crickets.
Will Trump do something if this is still going on in January? I doubt it. But I didn’t elect him. I voted for the one person I believe WOULD have done something. Can’t do more than that.
So sorry I couldn’t buy the Hillary heroine tale. Wish I could have. Then I could join y’all in despising Trump and thinking how much more fab things would have been if the racists and sexists hadn’t rejected Her. But they did. And a lot of them weren’t white. Or men. Go figure.
I’m going to unsubscribe for a bit. The lunatic fringe can rejoice. I started a new job and have to focus my attention on it. And after all, it’s so much easier to lie ever more when the person you’re lying about isn’t around to try to put things straight. You can not only invent versions of my posts, you can post your versions under my name:
Here’s a template:
That horrid MPG wrote to me today and he said, “[fill in your own dishonest b.s.]”
Carpe mendacium!
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MPG,
The election is over. Emotions will cool. Let’s get back to what this blog is about: a better education for all. I want you to be part of that discussion.
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Good idea. Tell us more about Question 2 in Mass. 😅
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Question 2 was intended to authorize 12 new charter schools every year indefinitely. Parents and teachers organized to build resistance. More than 200 school committees passed resolutions against it. The New England NAACP opposed it. Senator Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders opposed it.
Charter advocates spent $22 million, most of which came from out of state and from billionaires. Many of the big donors were unnamed, “Dark Money.”
Opposition to Question 2 came from the two teachers’ unions and many individual teachers and parents.
Opponents were outspent, but they were on the ground, knocking on doors.
Question 2 was well funded but was beaten 62%-38%.
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My goodness, thank you. it means a great deal to me to realize that people like you realize what I add to this site.
I do not have my own blog, but I write at Oped news.
Mainly, I post links to those who say it better than I do, which is why I have so many llinks when I say something. Have huge file of links, so when I state my opinion, I can link to evidence or others who offer evidence….unlike some of the trolls who write their opinions as if what they say is reality, and then attack those of us who speak truth. Oh well.
You can access my articles here http://www.opednews.com/author/author40790.html
But my value at Oped, is that I read so widely that I discover brilliant thinkers and find wonderful articles, and then I post them — with a comment.
The comment after each article adds my take away and valuable info and links.
If you scroll down to the blue buttons, you can find the ‘quicklinks’ to all the most important articles I post each day. or here: http://www.opednews.com/author/quicklinks/author40790.html
There is also a button which takes you to my commentary, or here http://www.opednews.com/author/comments/author40790.htm
and another which lies to my series. http://www.opednews.com/Series/15-880-Districts-in-50-Sta-by-Susan-Lee-Schwartz-140921-34.html
I have series that link back to Diane’s blog, and others who report the privatization of our schools.
BTW, my daughter n law is a filmmaker, too, although at present she is producing a theater for children in Austin http://improvedshakespeare.com
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Thanks for the kind words, NW!!
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My favorite author is Sinclair Lewis. If I had Oprah’s power (and by the way, where was she in the election? On the sidelines I guess.) I would make Lewis’ “It Can’t Happen Here” my book club pick for this year because “It” just did. For extra credit, I recommend “Elmer Gantry”.
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Elmer Gantry espoused to be spiritual, not so with Trump, who puts on no airs, which is why he was elected. People were tired of the Elmer Gantrys that surrounded them as candidates,
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Agree GST….Sinclair Lewis was the greatest of the Muckrakers. His book on the meat industry was probably one of the most important exposes of the 20th century…however, if he lived today he would have been sued for all his assets and jailed for defamation/slander/libel.
Oprah is protecting her $3.5 Billion by sitting quietly on the sidelines…and she was sued by the meat industry herself over ‘hamburgers’ and that is how she met and hired Dr. Phil who also has become close to a billionaire in the insanity of the Free Market.
I always wonder why Jonas Salk did not become a billionaire for doing so much more important human work than these TV personalities?
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To Ellen Lubic:
I guess that you already know the answer from your own experience.
1) Business owners will collect 100 or 1000 multiply to their donation from the mass. Lotto charity winning prize scheme and Oprah’s gift giving in seminars are the specific examples.
2) People, who do important human work like mother Teresa and Dr. Ravitch, give more of their modest earning income, precious time, and expertise in knowledge over many years to all important human works.
In short, do we trust in SELFISH and ARROGANT people who make money from taxes’ loopholes? Back2basic
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As much as at is a wake up call to both parties, the Dems will have to get on message, as Bernie did. The Clintons had so much baggage with the foundation and the neocon agenda in foreign affairs and the banking industry, forcing many to Trump, only to pay lip service to the liberal agenda and those of color during the campaign. In education one bright light is maybe we will get rid of the Dept. of Education and more direct assaults on Common Core. The Democratic National Committee brought itself to this impasse as indicated by Wikileaks.
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Agree 100% this loss is on the Clintons Podesta Debbie W-S, the DNC … No need for this loss. Turn to Wall St started with Bill Clinton, Dick Morris embrace of Wall St and Neoconservative foreign policy. Clintons are shape shifters and triangulators.
Karma.
Feel the Bern 2020 😅
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I would say that this election outcome owes a lot to Russian hackers, Wikileaks (drip, drip, drip), and James Comey.
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So you figure that a month ago or so, HRC had it locked up, and Julian Assange, in his role as a Putin cats paw, brought her down, not unlike how it was beauty that killed the beast in KING KONG, but in reverse?
Last I checked, the average American doesn’t know who Julian Assange is or what Wikileaks is. If they do and they’re not well left of center, they think he and Snowden and Manning are all sell-out traitors who should be shot. Never mind that Assange is an Aussie. But then, you think they should be severely punished, too. And that Wikileaks never attacks Republicans. I think you ignored my query about your thoughts on Daniel Ellsberg: hero or traitor? If the former (as I think he is), then why not the above-mentioned trio? All because under a Democratic administration, they embarrassed those in power? Did Wikileaks do nothing under GWB??
If you REALLY need to continue past today to point the finger anywhere but where it belongs, how do you imagine you’ll help things go better in 2018 or 2020? That’s not gloating: it’s asking you to think hard about a strategy for the next four years.
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dianeravitch
A daily barrage was launched against Trump on many issues every major paper in the nation the cable networks all distributed them . They were all true . Hillary’s Emails were also released they were true as well . What is more true BIGLY is the decline of middle class income especially in the industrial mid west .
I went to sleep at 4:30 Am at 6:am I was woke up by a call by former co workers who were in shock . So I haven’t had much sleep . Been doing to much posting and never got to go to my daily web sites in the middle of this post to you. i decided to read Dean Baker first .
I think I’ll Just post his response instead of mine .
DEAN BAKER
It will be very hard to get used to the two words “President Trump,” but somehow we will have to figure out a way to survive and keep the country and world intact for the next four years. There are many factors behind the rise of Donald Trump. Clearly, a big part of Trump’s appeal lay in his open expressions of racism, xenophobia, and misogyny.
But this is not the whole story. Many of the white working class people who voted for Trump yesterday voted for Barack Obama just four years earlier. Their character was not transformed in the last four years.
Undoubtedly, part of the story is that some of these people could not bring themselves to vote for a woman for president, even if they could vote for a black man with a foreign-sounding name. There were endless accounts of open and hateful displays of sexism directed against Hillary Clinton and her supporters, many of them encouraged by the candidate himself.
However, even against this backdrop the election was still incredibly close, with states like Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan certainly well within Clinton’s reach. There were many factors that depressed Clinton’s vote, most obviously the endless drumbeat about e-mails, which were amplified in the last days of the campaign by F.B.I. Director James Comey’s bizarre intervention into the race.
While many of these factors were beyond the control of Clinton and the Democrats, one factor that was under their control was the decision to push the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). Needless to say, there is little public knowledge of the details of the TPP. But the TPP symbolized a pattern of trade that cost millions of manufacturing jobs in the prior decade and put downward pressure on the wages of the workers without college degrees more generally.
This pattern of trade has been an important factor in the wage stagnation of the last four decades. If the wages of workers without college degrees had kept pace with productivity growth since 1980, they would be more than 40 percent higher than they are today. This is a big deal to these workers and their families. Even if trade was not the whole story of income inequality, working class people are certainly correct to see it as a big part of the picture.
The TPP probably would not have substantially contributed, at least directly, to further depressing wages. We already have trade deals with six of the 11 countries in the pact and have extensive trade relations with the others. Rather the TPP was about putting in place a business-friendly structure of regulation. It also increased patent and copyright protection, with the goal of increasing the profits of the pharmaceutical, software, and entertainment industry. In other words, the TPP was about further extending a pattern of trade aimed at redistributing income upward.
It is important to understand that this is not some natural process of globalization. We deliberately placed our manufacturing workers in direct competition with low-paid workers in the developing world. The predicted and actual effect of this policy is to lower their wages. At the same time, we have left in place or even increased protections that benefit those at the high end. Our doctors earn on average more than $250,000 a year, twice the pay of their counterparts in other wealthy countries. This gap is in large part because we prohibit foreign doctors from practicing in the United States unless they complete a U.S. residency program. There is a similar story of protectionism for dentists who must graduate a U.S. dental school (or recently Canadian).
In addition, making patents and copyrights longer and stronger, both here and around the world, redistributes income from the bulk of the population to those in a position to profit from these protections. This is the story of the Hepatitis C drug Sovaldi, which has a list price of $84,000. The free market price is a couple hundred dollars. We will pay more than $430 billion this year for drugs that would sell for 10–20 percent of this amount in a free market.
There was nothing natural about the upward redistribution we have seen over the last four decades, it was deliberate policy. And the TPP was a symbol of this policy. It was a trade pact that was crafted by and for major business interests.
Although Clinton disowned the pact in the course of the campaign, few took this disavowal seriously. After all, she had overseen much of the negotiation process as Secretary of State and she has been closely associated with backers of this pattern of trade over the course of her political career.
President Obama’s decision to push the TPP this year was in effect waving a red cape in front of an angry bull. Trump made opposition to the TPP and other trade deals a centerpiece of his campaign. While he has presented no coherent alternative position, his explicit opposition likely appealed to many working class voters in key states.
It is certainly possible that pushing the TPP created the margin of Trump’s victory in several key states. The irony of Obama’s decision to push the TPP, rather than just letting it drop, is that the deal now appears genuinely dead. And as a side effect, we have President Trump.
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Thanks for sharing Baker’s assessment.
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dianeravitch
A daily barrage was launched against Trump on many issues every major paper in the nation the cable networks all distributed them . They were all true . Hillary’s Emails were also released they were true as well . What is more true BIGLY is the decline of middle class income especially in the industrial mid west .
I went to sleep at 4:30 Am at 6:am I was woke up by a call by former co workers who were in shock . So I haven’t had much sleep . Been doing to much posting and never got to go to my daily web sites in the middle of this post to you. i decided to read Dean Baker first .
I think I’ll Just post his response instead of mine .
DEAN BAKER
It will be very hard to get used to the two words “President Trump,” but somehow we will have to figure out a way to survive and keep the country and world intact for the next four years. There are many factors behind the rise of Donald Trump. Clearly, a big part of Trump’s appeal lay in his open expressions of racism, xenophobia, and misogyny.
But this is not the whole story. Many of the white working class people who voted for Trump yesterday voted for Barack Obama just four years earlier. Their character was not transformed in the last four years.
Undoubtedly, part of the story is that some of these people could not bring themselves to vote for a woman for president, even if they could vote for a black man with a foreign-sounding name. There were endless accounts of open and hateful displays of sexism directed against Hillary Clinton and her supporters, many of them encouraged by the candidate himself.
However, even against this backdrop the election was still incredibly close, with states like Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan certainly well within Clinton’s reach. There were many factors that depressed Clinton’s vote, most obviously the endless drumbeat about e-mails, which were amplified in the last days of the campaign by F.B.I. Director James Comey’s bizarre intervention into the race.
While many of these factors were beyond the control of Clinton and the Democrats, one factor that was under their control was the decision to push the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). Needless to say, there is little public knowledge of the details of the TPP. But the TPP symbolized a pattern of trade that cost millions of manufacturing jobs in the prior decade and put downward pressure on the wages of the workers without college degrees more generally.
This pattern of trade has been an important factor in the wage stagnation of the last four decades. If the wages of workers without college degrees had kept pace with productivity growth since 1980, they would be more than 40 percent higher than they are today. This is a big deal to these workers and their families. Even if trade was not the whole story of income inequality, working class people are certainly correct to see it as a big part of the picture.
The TPP probably would not have substantially contributed, at least directly, to further depressing wages. We already have trade deals with six of the 11 countries in the pact and have extensive trade relations with the others. Rather the TPP was about putting in place a business-friendly structure of regulation. It also increased patent and copyright protection, with the goal of increasing the profits of the pharmaceutical, software, and entertainment industry. In other words, the TPP was about further extending a pattern of trade aimed at redistributing income upward.
It is important to understand that this is not some natural process of globalization. We deliberately placed our manufacturing workers in direct competition with low-paid workers in the developing world. The predicted and actual effect of this policy is to lower their wages. At the same time, we have left in place or even increased protections that benefit those at the high end. Our doctors earn on average more than $250,000 a year, twice the pay of their counterparts in other wealthy countries. This gap is in large part because we prohibit foreign doctors from practicing in the United States unless they complete a U.S. residency program. There is a similar story of protectionism for dentists who must graduate a U.S. dental school (or recently Canadian).
In addition, making patents and copyrights longer and stronger, both here and around the world, redistributes income from the bulk of the population to those in a position to profit from these protections. This is the story of the Hepatitis C drug Sovaldi, which has a list price of $84,000. The free market price is a couple hundred dollars. We will pay more than $430 billion this year for drugs that would sell for 10–20 percent of this amount in a free market.
There was nothing natural about the upward redistribution we have seen over the last four decades, it was deliberate policy. And the TPP was a symbol of this policy. It was a trade pact that was crafted by and for major business interests.
Although Clinton disowned the pact in the course of the campaign, few took this disavowal seriously. After all, she had overseen much of the negotiation process as Secretary of State and she has been closely associated with backers of this pattern of trade over the course of her political career.
President Obama’s decision to push the TPP this year was in effect waving a red cape in front of an angry bull. Trump made opposition to the TPP and other trade deals a centerpiece of his campaign. While he has presented no coherent alternative position, his explicit opposition likely appealed to many working class voters in key states.
It is certainly possible that pushing the TPP created the margin of Trump’s victory in several key states. The irony of Obama’s decision to push the TPP, rather than just letting it drop, is that the deal now appears genuinely dead. And as a side effect, we have President Trump.
http://cepr.net/blogs/beat-the-press/
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I certainly would not call Hillary Clinton the most qualified candidate in modern times. The baggage she brought to the campaign exceeded that of any candidate in my lifetime other than perhaps Donald Trump. I do believe, however, that wringing our hands and questioning how this happened will do little to solve our problems. What it will take is for all of us to remain engaged, to make certain that we do all that we can at a grassroots level to close the divide that now exists in this country. This responsibility falls to us, not just to the president-elect. I share your views on the threat to public education and, as president of a public education advocacy group, am posting a blog tomorrow to stress just how important advocacy is at the state level. I respect your position; let’s all move on and focus on the kids in our public schools.
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Take Senate 2018. Take House and POTUS in 2020. Bernie only 78 🙂
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Would you please give us a link to your blog?
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Click on his name, Duane, and it will take you to his screen.
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Thanks, Ellen! Learn something new everyday, eh!!
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This is very difficult. As a parent of a girl I am feeling leaderless.
Many in the US have distrust of powerful qualified women piercing the Oval Office.
Moreover, she has spent her whole career fighting for children and women.
It’s a terrible morning.
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Yup. Women are still second class citizens. Why else would we still be fighting for equal pay? Hillary was definitely not an inspiring campaigner, but by all reports she was more than competent to be president, emails or not. Hillary, as a woman, was not allowed any of the “sins” of her male predecessors.
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If Hillary was Hal, she/he would have won by 50 votes.
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I truly wonder if a woman will ever be elected in this country in my lifetime (I’m 43). Clinton tried to be less emotional and more guarded so that she wasn’t seen as “weak” or a “bitch.” Which somehow made her seem untrustworthy. A woman cannot win with those kinds of odds stacked against her.
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Clinton lost because black voters stayed home.
Clinton : not exciting too centrist
Predators, Welfare queens, Bill locked up a generation.
Dick Morris idiocy cost Clinton election 2 decades ago.
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These are the factors that ended Hillary Clinton:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/How-Could-This-Happen-The-by-Susan-Lee-Schwartz-Citizens_Democracy_Democrat_Election-161109-261.html
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Re: Black voters staying home. Ohio’s Nina Turner, a former state senator, was gracious enough to endorse Clinton, even though the DNC refused to allow her to make her scheduled speech at the DNC convention. The DNC gave Bloomberg podium time.
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Yes, Linda, it was a big slap in the face by both HIllary and the DNC not to have Turner on stage. She did a masterful job supporting Hillary.
She should be encouraged to run for higher office. Adding to my 2020 list…
Nina Turner for Congress.
Russ Feingold to head the DNC.
Al Franken for Prez.
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I am a newly elected School Board member in a small town in California. My husband is a public school teacher and I am a former school counselor. We have one child in college and one to go in two years. My husband’s first words about Trump’s election was worry about our retirement savings. My first worry, as Diane has written, was “What does this mean for public education?” As a result, I am especially thankful for this post, such that it is (as the bulk of the discourse in this election focused, um, on other “issues…”) I find myself wanting to anticipate what Trump will do with education, so as to protect the school district I love. I find myself drawn to trying to be proactive rather than reactive, but am unsure of where to start. I would welcome any and all suggestions.
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Krbayne, come to the Network for Public Education annual meeting in Oakland in October 2017. Join us and find allies and news and encouragement.
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Thank you Diane! And Oakland is not far from where I am (read: inexpensive!) Will you be there?
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Of course!
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An important voice to listen to is Emily Talmage in her Save Maine Schools blog (found here: https://emilytalmage.com/). The main battles to be fought will be over Competency Based Education, supposedly Personalized and Blended Learning, andSocio-Emotional Learning as tracked by computer algorithms along with the data mining that is being done right now without parental consent.
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Thank you, Duane! I will take a look!
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Here is an fb group (of which Emily T. is also member):
https://www.facebook.com/groups/stopPBE/?multi_permalinks=1595501667424397¬if_t=group_highlights¬if_id=1478715613839874
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Yes, we do have another presidential election in 4 years, but we also have annual elections every year at this time for the states and U.S. Congress.
In one year we will have another chance to change the majority party in one or both Houses of Congress. If we are fortunate, by then, many of the voters fooled by tRUMPS endless lies, misinformation, and impossible to achieve alleged promises will wake up and realize what happened and vote the GOP out of power in Congress.
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Lloyd…perhaps you will join me in urging these candidates for 2020.
Nina Turner, Ohio, for Congress.
Al Franken for Prez.
Russ Feingold to run the DNC.
Let’s get started moving forward.
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I’m laughing even though this is no laughing matter.
If Trump runs true to form, I might not be here in 2020. In fact, American might not be here. Starting on November 9th, I wake up every morning hoping to read that someone assassinated Trump and his VP.
That means Paul Ryan would be president.
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I can’t read that comment and remain silent, Lloyd. Not only is that in itself a criminal act, but it’s deeply sick and disturbing. You need help if you seriously harbor those sentiments. And before the Secret Service pays a call on you. Threatening the life of the president- and vice president-elect or openly encouraging or wishing for it is a very serious felony. And it’s the sort of thing progressives are supposed to be against.
Come to grips with some reality. Try reading the Thomas Frank article. Whether you realize it or not, the main motivation for electing Trump over Clinton was economic. It had more to do with her (and BIll’s) trade policies than with her gender or Trump’s dumb-ass comments on Mexicans, women, a handicapped reporter, etc. She lost Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. If you don’t grasp the significance of that event, you’re not going to be able to help anyone win a thing in 2018 or 2020. You’ll be barking up all the wrong trees, chasing your own tail, and heaven help the party or candidate who takes advice for you on strategy or tactics.
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Duane “Threatening the life of the president-”
He didn’t threaten, for godssake, he was just dreaming. I think it’s in the 0th amendment, that men can dream.
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I wrote that, not Duane, Maté. Let’s not start chastising the wrong person.
That said, read the full paragraph: it’s not just a criminal act to threaten the life of the POTUS, etc., but to encourage others to assassinate someone. And it should be. And it is the sort of thing that openly wishing for is tantamount to calling for. It’s really not a muddy situation. And it has nothing to do with freedom to dream. Dream and fantasize all you want. Once you make it public, you might well be prosecuted.
I read about the history of the Secret Service as an elementary student, years before the John F. Kennedy assassination in 1963. I was really impressed by what they do, and their involvement with attempts on FDR and Harry Truman’s lives, as well as lesser-known plots to assassinate that were thwarted. We are extremely lucky, given our insane bromance with guns (though the two attempted assassinations of Gerald Ford were by women) that we haven’t actually lost a POTUS since 1963. However, in that time, there were two attempts on Ford, one shooting of Reagan, the assassination of likely Democratic nominee Robert F. Kennedy, and the shooting of candidate George Wallace, ending his political career.
It makes no difference to me that one of the above is someone I’d have like to have seen prosecuted for war crimes or that Wallace’s politics were anathema to me. Assassination is insane, it’s wrong, and the people who become assassins are almost always stark raving nuts. The US has not been above using or attempting assassination as a political tool in foreign countries, and that, too, is wrong.
As I’ve said before: the ends never justify the means: instead, the means shape the ends and those people who employ such means. Maybe if I lived in 1930s-1940s Germany, I’d have been willing to support such an act. But Nazi Germany was a dictatorship ruled by a madman, backed by a people who had gone insane as a nation. We’re not that. Trump’s not that. Suggesting anything of the kind two days after he was legally elected? Sorry, but I’d call for the men in the white coats.
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MPG,
So you are saying that dreaming about something is now illegal in a Trumpian world?
It is not a felony to dream or wish for something to happen. Well, at least for now. But soon it probable will be once Trump goes to work with your support.
“In 2009 the Secret Service stated that the volume of threats (not dreams and wishes) against Obama was comparable to that under George W. Bush and Bill Clinton.”
Click the link and read carefully. No where does it say having a dream and wanting something to happen is the same as making threats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_threats_against_Barack_Obama
To be clear, MPG, I’m not threatening anyone or even planning to. I’m just dreaming and waking up and reading the news to see if what I dreamed was caused by someone else, and I’m going to continue waking up every day tRUMP is in the White House to read the news to see if what I dreamed came true. And if my dreams come true, I’ll smile and then get on with me day.
If dreams and wishes could kill, the United States would be going through a lot of presidents, about one a day, maybe one every hour since no president is going to satisfy everyone. I did not make a threat. I do not plan to do anything but dream and wake up to read the news to see if that dream came true.
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Once again, Lloyd, you manage to be remarkable in your willful obtuseness. Dreaming is legal and always will be, ‘even’ under the archdemon, Donald Trump.
Writing that you’re wishing, hoping, dreaming of it? I wouldn’t put that in a private journal, let alone write it as a public comment. You’re a fool.
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It takes one to know one and I’m so tempted to call you a fool but won’t because you are the expert when it comes to knowing who is a fool.
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Lloyd, you’ve already insulted me multiple times. Don’t play the martyr or the innocent guy who is a sportsman. You’re far from that.
But please: forward your “dream” to the Secret Service. See how fast you’re investigated, possibly arrested, and Obama, not Trump, is the POTUS until January.
That aside, the thrust of my comment wasn’t about your potential for jail time, but how wrong-headed the dream of assassinating anyone is. If you don’t get that, you need serious psychological help. You start in making political change through murder and even if you “win,” we then have a murderer or his friends running things. From what I’ve read, it’s hard to stop with just the one. Maybe I’ll be next on your list. Or on the list of some of my other fans here. What a lovely way to make things better.
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You never stop do you? I hereby “think” of you as a deplorable.
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Of course, you do, Lloyd.
And it doesn’t take a fool to recognize a fool. Quite the contrary. If your repertoire of retorts isn’t a bit better than the ones we all learn in primary school, I’ll have to go easier on you. I dislike fighting an unarmed opponent unless s/he’s well-trained in weaponless combat. When it comes to playground insults, you could use some new material. Nothing less effective than unoriginal and/or unfunny epithets. See the Frenchman scenes in MONTY PYTHON AND THE HOLY GRAIL for ideas.
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Actually, I’m holding back because Diane asked us to stop. This is her Blog so I will comply, but not you. The 1st Amendment does apply here.
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Sorry, I just read my typo and I meant to say “the 1st Amendment does not apply here.”
In closing, because I won’t respond to MPG in this thread again, I want to share “All the times Trump has called for violence at his rallies”.
For instance,
The candidate said he would have fought the person had he reached the lectern and mimed punching him a few times.
“I’ll beat the crap out of you,” he then mouthed. “Part of the problem … is nobody wants to hurt each other anymore.”
http://mashable.com/2016/03/12/trump-rally-incite-violence/#J8TGXHkpViqN
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Lloyd is a marine. You do know who you attack– as it is YOU not he, who is the assailant, and everyone here, including Diane knows what you are saying and, the behavior that your words define!
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LLoyd, there a re people who like their role model Trump, do not tolerate any argument, and in fact see it as attacks.
This, then gives them tacit approval to attack.
The publisher at the news-site where I write, explained to me what ‘ad hominem’ attacks look like. These attacks are not arguments about the topic, but are directed at the person who writes. He was shocked when MPG migrated his attacks on me, to his news-site, especially when he attacked me in the commentary that follows the powerful article I wrote about How Could This Happen”
http://www.opednews.com/articles/How-Could-This-Happen-The-by-Susan-Lee-Schwartz-Citizens_Democracy_Democrat_Election-161109-261.html#comment628568
I think he is going to flag his comment.
MPG doesn’t get what freedom of speech really entails… or the 1st Amendment. he should read your blog.
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I’m sorry, but I won’t be leaving a comment. I wrote it and attempted to post it, but that site requires that I sign up and get a password to leave a comment, and I’m not doing that anymore. I stopped a couple of years ago just like I got rid of my smart phone (replaced it with a dumb phone) and don’t have a laptop or tablet, or cable TV or satellite TV and/or radio.
I don’t want to join any more sites, but I was allowed to click “Like” and I did that.
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I, for one, hope Trump stays healthy.
The idea of Pence as President is even more appalling. While Trump is a wild card, we actually know what Pence will do and he is civil enough to actually get his extremist policies through Congress.
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I think the Republican leadership as well as the more sane of his advisors (like the ones who barred him from Twitter) just hope they contain him. Good luck. As far as I can tell, nobody ever has. Now he holds what he thinks is the ultimate bully pulpit.
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Lloyd and MPG,
Please stop the insults. We are on the same team. Civility is the rule here, and I may start deleting offensive comments to tone things down.
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You have a point there Diane. Certain people feel emboldened when no one stops their meanness!
There is a difference between an ad hominem attack and argument.
Here, I am MAKING AN ARGUMENT, to ADDRESS an ATTACK ON ME, that should not be hidden. So many of you know who I am, and what I do! You need to see what this person decided to write at the PROGRESSIVE Newsite WHERE I HAVE BEEN A TRUSTED VOICE, A JOURNALIST FOR 6 YEARS!
THIS WAS HIS COMMENT ON AN ARTICLE THAT I WROTE about the ELECTION, I had linked that piece on “How Could This Happen?” here at Diane’s blog, and was so pleased that so many of you contacted me and wrote HERE to say it was ‘brilliant.”
It HAD nothing to do with him! http://www.opednews.com/articles/How-Could-This-Happen-The-by-Susan-Lee-Schwartz-Citizens_Democracy_Democrat_Election-161109-261.html
That pissed MPG off, as did my ADVICE to everyone “to ignore the rants of people that do not address education OR ANYTHING. He calls that sliming him!
Emboldened by seeing nothing that stops him,– just like Trump and those who attack rather than argue, he wrote an attack commentary about me, just as he attacked Lloyd, here. HE THOUGHT YOU GUYS WOULD NEVER SEE IT, because so few of you comment when you got to my links.
Below, IS HIS COMMENT. YOU CAN SEE MY REPLY AT THE ARTICLE LINK, but I added some comments here, in brackets!!
As you read, consider THIS: playwrights know that DIALOGUE DEFINES CHARACTER in a play, because there is NO narrative to describe their nature! THAT is why we figured out who Trump was — by listening to what he said. MPG defined who he is when he went after me, even as he says (LOL) that HE doesn’t do that!
“Michael Paul Goldenberg Submitted on Wednesday, Nov 9, 2016 at 9:50:11 PM to OPED NEWS!”
“Kind of quiet here, SLS, for all your alleged brilliance. ”
“I’d answer your spate of sliming comments about me on DR’s blog, but I’m on self-imposed hiatus there.” [LOL]
” If you have an ounce of integrity, you’ll stop smearing me knowing that I won’t read or respond to additional slander.”
*[LOL. AS THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE IS DOING–HERE, at this site, WHERE I AM A JOURNALIST WHO IS A “TRUSTED VOICE”]
“But willingness to consider that just because someone doesn’t swallow everything you believe as the unvarnished, that person must be an egomaniac, monster, or what-have-you seems beyond your capacity.”
*[ …PERFECT TRANSFERENCE… SO LIKE TRUMP]
“HRC lost. It will take more than the predictable excuses her people and folks like you come up with to explain it. The world is rarely as simplistic as ideologues try to make it. And if you expect to be effective politically in the next 4 – 8 years, you might want to come out of your Ivory Tower and talk to a few people who voted for Trump. They might not all be insane, or racists, or homophobes, or misogynists, etc. And even if they are, shouldn’t we be able to do better than to call them “deplorables”?
*[ATTRIBUTING THIS TO ME???]
“You think that the name-calling they do is awful, but it’s just fine if your candidate speaks about them like their sub-human. . . I see. Maybe you, Hillary, Podesta, Wasserman-Schultz, Brazile, et al. aren’t quite as smart as you clearly think you are”.
{LOL, AN INSULTING TRANSFERENCE AGAIN.I NEVER THOUGHT THAT]
Thanks for handing the Oval Office to Trump on a platter. Pied-piper strategy, anyone?”
* [ THE FINAL INSULT, BLAMING ME. I MADE THIS HAPPEN BECAUSE I SPEAK TRUTH!
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Susan,
Yours is a valued voice on this blog. Do not be discouraged. Everyone has a slow fuse in these dark days after the election of a demagogue and a phony.
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Thank You, Diane. I know that and I have made so many friends here, who messaged me at Oped, to get my email, so we could correspond on these issues.
Rob Kall, at Oped, is not happy, that my fine article, had an unrelated comment that attacked me. I don’t know what he is going to do, but as that is a news-site,and not a blog, ad hominem attacks are not acceptable!
Thanks for the assurance.
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MPG,
Glad to see you are still with us
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IN the Trump world, dreaming about such a thing can bring down the wrath of those whose own thoughts are the only reality. It makes me sad that you were forced to defend yourself, as I know who you are, a patriot and a maine who defends the law, and the Constitution.
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Just to let you know that you are not alone.
If Trump had lost, his people would be leading the attacks on HRC.
This is what comes when a race-bating fascist creates a divided nation and spews hatred.
Journalist Deletes Account After Tweeting ‘Time For a Presidential Assassination’
http://www.mediaite.com/online/journalist-deletes-account-after-tweeting-time-for-a-presidential-assassination/ and there was this http://www.mediaite.com/tv/people-have-to-die-anti-trump-protester-calls-for-violence-on-cnn/
‘People Have to Die’: Anti-Trump Protester Calls For Violence on CNN
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Lloyd: “Starting on November 9th, I wake up every morning hoping …”
Let’s not forget that if we reverse 11/9 we get 9/11.
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And 11/9 will probably bring the Untied States more pain, fear, and loss than 9/11 did. Once tRump is gone and some sanity, hopefully, returns will the U.S. built an 11/9 national Memorial & Museum where, for those who survive, will go to cry for our losses and suffering caused by a Trump presidency.
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Is that thought supposed to be comforting?
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Bernie would have won. Hillary lost.
Lesson? Neoconservatives must be confronted head on.
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I don’t think tRUMP is a neoconservative. In fact, tRUMP is only for tRUMP and no one else. He is a political movement of one: trumpism.
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You missed the point. Clinton is a neoconservative.
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Doug,
I was a neoconservative in the 1980s and 1990s. Up until,2005. I know neocons. Hillary is not a neocon. She is a centrist Democrat.
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Labels make it easy to stereotype a complex human being.
” One of the great misperceptions of this political year, among many Democrats and Republicans alike, is that Hillary Clinton is a third-rate candidate with no core or convictions” He goes on to say: “The public perception of her seems to me a gross and inaccurate caricature. I don’t understand the venom, the “lock her up” chants, the assumption that she is a Lady Macbeth; it’s an echo of the animus a lifetime ago some felt for Eleanor Roosevelt.(When Roosevelt spoke up for Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor, a letter in The Los Angeles Times thundered: ‘When she starts bemoaning the plight of the treacherous snakes we call Japanese (with apologies to all snakes), she has reached the point where she should be forced to retire from public life.’ Strong women sometimes drive people nuts.) In fact, what makes Hillary Clinton tick has always been a 1960s-style idealism about making the world a better place!”
I read the endless ‘killery chants, and ‘neocon’ accusations insinuating that SHE DID IT… as if she made ALL the decisions — as if she were the president. But asTodd Gitlin points out at Bill Moyers: http://billmoyers.com/story/hillary-hatred-revisited/
“… a secretary of state is not a president! She is a former secretary of state running for president… Clinton had to face long-drawn-out accusations of vastly greater malfeasance than when the 1983 bombing of the American Marine barracks in Beirut resulted in the killing of 241 American servicemen and women. After that massacre, conducted on Ronald Reagan’s watch, a single Democratic House subcommittee conducted a six-week-long investigation. After the killings of the four Americans in Benghazi, the Republican-led House conducted seven investigations, one of which lasted three years; the Republican-led Senate conducted another one.
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Bernie would not have won. The Oppo research on him was intense.
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Interesting read
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/11/09/im-a-black-christian-and-guess-what-donald-trumps-america-is-my-america-too/?wpisrc=nl_faith&wpmm=1
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Nonsense. He is the most popular politician in the country.
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300 messages today say no.
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The collapse of the Democratic turnout is on HRC and nobody else.
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Yes, we read it all from Team Clinton. Meanwhile, what if the election never turned on oppo research but on policies. Clinton showed she didn’t care about the working and middle classes. Trump convinced them that he did. She never went to Wisconsin once during the general, despite pleas from Russ Feingold and the Democratic Party on the ground. She assumed it was hers. Michigan, Pennsylvania? Didn’t win enough support from those she took for granted. The more you analyze the numbers, the more clear it becomes how she, the DNC, and her team snatched defeat from the jaws of certain victory. Sanders would have run a very different campaign. Independents, the young, the entire left-wing of the party, more than enough others, would have united behind him. Trump could have run all the b.s. oppo ads he cared to run. If Sanders’ message reached the people that Hillary ignored, insulted, or simply couldn’t connect with, then he wins easily over Trump. There’s oppo on every candidate. Hillary used it almost exclusively in attacking Trump’s character and fitness, and she lost. Maybe oppo isn’t everything it’s cracked up to be. Maybe economics means more to people than ideology after all.
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Well Clinton CLEARLY was the wrong candidate. Too close to Wall St. Two positions on free trade. 2 positions on criminal justice. 2 positions on Iraq war
Terrible judgement.
Libya another disaster AFTER Iraq.
Look at the Goldman Saks speeches. Sounds like a Republican.
The election was lost the day she won the nomination.
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Doug,
You may not agree, but I think the election was lost for Hillary the day James Comey said there were new emails to review on Anthony Weiner’s computers. Millions of people voted between that day and the Sunday he said “never mind.”
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I don’t really agree Diane. In a change election she was establishment, centrist and boring. She is not a dynamic or charismatic speaker like Obama or even Bill.
Bernie has shortcomings but he ran a crusade which was what was needed.
People hate free trade in rust belt. She was pro free trade in 90s
People hate Wall St. She gave flattering paid speeches.
People are sick of wars. Hillary starts wars.
If Americans really want a woman president I suggest it be a black woman.
Black voters did not trust “super predator” comments.
Hillary and Bill went wrong the day they met Dick Morris and started to see issues through “triangulation”.
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This piece by Reich sums it up. The Dems used to represent the working class. Not any more.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/democrats-working-class-americans-us-election
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Dick Morris is no friend to the Clintons
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Are you kidding me? Dick Morris was the architect of Bill Clintons turn to the right and Hillary’s centrism. Wrong philosophy. Wrong time. Good riddance to “Clintonism”. Based on ignore the white working class they have nowhere else to go. Ooops they found a place to go.
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While he once was influential in the Clinton circle, that was a long time ago. Since then Morris has been an obstructionist to all things Clinton. I’d call him an enemy, definitely not a friend.
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Of course but he set the right wing trajectory for the Clintons
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That’s exactly the point, Doug. But I think it’s too hard for some people to read the history of the Clintons without reducing the established facts to “the vast right-wing conspiracy.” Morris was always a slime ball, but once upon a time he was the Clintons’ slime ball, so that was okay. Once he jumped ship, he was rejected. Too bad folks here don’t want to see the bigger picture. Bill didn’t become POTUS by being a progressive. He wasn’t a progressive governor in Arkansas. For all the hype about his being “the first black POTUS,” he was far from that, unless one means a centrist with neoliberal leanings. There are, of course, far-right black folks (see Thomas, Clarence), so he could have been the first black POTUS without being worth a damn. After 8 years of BHO, I fear that we will have to wait a bit longer for a progressive black POTUS. And if Hillary Clinton won, I’d still be waiting for a progressive woman POTUS. the second adjective isn’t the one I care about; it’s “progressive” that matters to me.
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You bet. They did this!
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An epic fail for ‘data driven’. If the quants are that far off on a binary choice in precision, one can surmise that predicting learning and school climate are even more off.
Tear down the data wall misrepresenting education, it’s a joke. Garbage in, garbage out.
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without supporting Trump, Diane, Julian Assange has stated that Russians played no part in hacking and that it may actually be domestic intelligence services doing the hacking.
Painting Hillary as a savior is sad, comparing her sins to men, The pay to play with her foundation, receiving millions from the supporters of ISIS (Saudis), and the weapons sent to them, is over the top. Good relations with Russia and Trump follows the policy of JFK after the Cuban missile crisis. It is sad that Hillary could have been the first woman president, but followed her worst instincts. Hillary let down women (and men)
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Almost agree, but she didn’t let me down. She was exactly who I thought she was.
And I claim that the first woman POTUS was Edith Wilson. She clearly ran the country during much of Woodrow’s second term. Not elected, but she did the job.
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Then there was FDR’s wife. She also ran the country while FDR was in a coma dying.
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Will you please give the Hillary bashing a rest. She lost, you should be as happy as pig in straw.
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Joe, you’re the kind of guy who takes as bashing anyone who doesn’t put two six-inch needles into his/her eyes, apparently.
Saying, “She didn’t disappoint, she was who I thought she was” is neither bashing nor gloating. It’s just a fact, and there was no “opinion” or judgment other than a simple statement of fact. I don’t think she betrayed me or my principles. She ran as a neoliberal and lost. If she’d convinced me, as Obama did in 2008, that she was a progressive and gotten steamrolled, I really WOULD have been tearing what little hair I have left right out of my head. But she isn’t, she didn’t, and so I still have some hair today. Why is that such a terrible problem for you? Because you didn’t get it or because you didn’t care who she was?
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My brain hurts too!
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Sadly, Dienne, that’s been my take for months. I despise Trump, I despise the part of his base that really is racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynistic, and petty. But I couldn’t have celebrated today if he’d lost, given who he’d have lost to.
Still, I honestly believed, even fairly late last night, that he’d lose. I couldn’t imagine that he’d win Pennsylvania. If someone told me NOTHING about yesterday’s results but that, I’d have known in a heartbeat that he was going to win. I wonder if a post-1900 Democrat has won POTUS without carrying Pennsylvania.
And the Clinton team must have known something, as they were in Philadelphia on Monday night. And in Michigan earlier that day. Maybe they should have done a little more in Wisconsin, where apparently the local Democratic party was screaming for them to come. Maybe she should have threatened to strangle Rich “the Nerd” Snyder until he fixed the water crisis in Flint instead of trying to use a quick appearance there in March to parley a win over Sanders. Posturing vs. using all your political capital and leverage to save people’s lives does tend to leave folks a little cold. You lose Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Pennsylvania, you aren’t going to be POTUS. She needed 3 of those 4 + Florida, or a bunch of upsets in smaller states. She couldn’t get it. Winning just the Northeast, Virginia, and the west coast, Hawaii, and a couple of low-pop far-midwesten states doesn’t quite add up to 270.
Well, once again, the best and the brightest went very far astray. How could that make me HAPPY? They brought down a hell of a lot of progressive dreams with them.
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“But I couldn’t have celebrated today if he’d lost, given who he’d have lost to.”
Would you have been at all relieved?
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Go back to thinking about education. Please. Given Trump’s love of competition, charters, and vouchers, there are going to be some rough battles ahead, now the Republicans control Congress Andy the White House.
The squabbling is mean and divisive.
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YOU SHOULD READ THIS
http://www.opednews.com/articles/How-Could-This-Happen-The-by-Susan-Lee-Schwartz-Citizens_Democracy_Democrat_Election-161109-261.html
She must be a super-powerful woman to inspire so much fear and fantastic theorizing.” Alexandra Petri’s article begins: : “Before Time, Before the Earth Was Made, Before Matter and Being and History: Hillary Clinton (Lucifer, Beelzebub, Lord of the Flies, Prince of Darkness, Satan, She Whose Many Names the Cats Scream in the Night) is cast out of heaven for overweening hubris. She is condemned to lie in eternal torment in a lake of fire surrounded by her fallen angels, or, alternatively, to run for a major office while female. For thousands of years she lies outside time, smelling of sulfur, before deciding to undertake the second option.”
Thanks to the media CON, and people like you, Flerp, the public perception of her is a gross and inaccurate caricature. I don’t understand the venom, the “lock her up” chants, the assumption that she is a Lady Macbeth; it’s an echo of the animus a lifetime ago some felt for Eleanor Roosevelt.(When Roosevelt spoke up for Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor, a letter in The Los Angeles Times thundered: ‘When she starts bemoaning the plight of the treacherous snakes we call Japanese (with apologies to all snakes), she has reached the point where she should be forced to retire from public life.’ Strong women sometimes drive people nuts.) In fact, what makes Hillary Clinton tick has always been a 1960s-style idealism about making the world a better place!” http://billmoyers.com/story/hillary-hatred-revisited/
Diane is right… go back to trying to convince us that lies are truth, and talk about vouchers and wonderful PUBLIC charter schools..or find another blog where truth has no value.
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Diane et al…as to education, I am quite sure I read a negative comment this AM by Linda Giffin who knew nothing about economics, and who also suggested that we now clean house starting with the academics. As an academic who has seen these Far Right Wing purges in the US and in other countries, I was alarmed at this comment. Here is the reply I wrote, but cannot find her supercilious comment any more in this long mélange of opinions.
To Linda Giffin and other Trumpeteers…..
In every dictatorship, they come first to kill the academics.
Only two months ago, Erdogan cleaned out the university leaders on day one of the failed Turkish coup. He has thousands of educators in prison. In Mexico, hundreds of teachers have been purged…arrested…killed…this year for wanting union representation.
McCarthy/HUAC and Reagan (as Ca. governor in 1968) did similar cleansing of academics in the late 1960s-early 70s, when UC Berkeley lost the best of their science, history, and political science professors. As an anachronism, many were hired by U. of Texas…the rest scattered to other states, and some left the US.
You scare me Linda Giffin and I doubt that you are an educator…but hope not. How many guns do you have? Will you be in the streets assaulting educators, Mexicans, Blacks, Jews, Muslims? Do you feel you now have free reign with your beloved Prez tRump, to get rid of all who see the world, democracy, and our Nation differently than you?
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Ellen, you know that’s not only hyperbolic, it’s incredibly divisive. I don’t see a lot of gracious losers here, but I do see an enormous amount of hatred that might just be fueled a tiny bit by the need to demonize Trump beyond all reason. In fact, taking that vein might lead someone to call his supporters “deplorables.” And that didn’t turn out so well. Just maybe if people on the “left” (giving a very generous benefit of the doubt to some folks here) learned to behave more like Bernie Sanders, this election would have turned out differently yesterday or at least not have been and up-and-down disaster for the Democratic Party.
I don’t have any problem telling Trump supporters the explicit ways in which they’re wrong. But I don’t start name-calling until I see some very clear evidence that they’re speaking out of racism or the like. And despite the fantasies that he and all his backers are demonic, I know a couple who aren’t. So out of deference to the tiny little sliver of decent people who voted for him, maybe give the extreme, monolithic attacks a rest for a day or two. See, we all have to live here and do “business” in the most general sense with people who don’t agree with us. And they’re not all monsters.
Oddly, I only saw one presidential campaign ad that focused entirely on the PERSONAL horrors (not a single political issue was mentioned) of the opponent. And that ad came from Hillary Clinton. And she lost. Maybe that wasn’t a complete coincidence?
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It is ludicrous to have the most verbose person on this blog, who refuses to stop posting redundancies, twisting and chiding my opinons yet again. This ego driven man who refuses Diane’s many requests to him that he stop raging here, seems to have a real god complex and thinks that only he, who uses up more white space here with his endless diatribes, is the only person with enough intelligence to have a handle on politics.
Pathetic and rude…and so very boring.
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Ellen, MPG is clueless. My admive to you is let him talk to your hand… when he gets no response, he will stop. You do not have to defend your point of view to him. He is every intelligent, but he listens only to the voice in his head…nothing in the way of reality ever interferes.
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He’ll be terrible for public schools. When he visited the for-profit Ohio charter school his crony manages he introduced the manager as the star of the show.
I had never seen school presented so blatantly as a business before.
But what does he care, right? No one in his family has been near a public school for three generations.
Our schools and kids are just a cash cow for the Trump family.
I told my 14 year old son he will be punished if he behaves ANYTHING LIKE the President-elect and I meant it.
I don’t admire anything about Mr. Trump and I think he’s an awful role model. That kind of behavior isn’t permitted in my house no matter if rich or powerful or celebrated people engage in it. I’m not raising a man like that. No way.
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193 comments. Anyone have any idea what the prior highest number of comments for any posting here??
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We’ve gone into the 200s before, most notably on another topic that gets me in hot water around here, Rafe Esquith.
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People, give it a rest. Nobody’s convincing anyone of anything here. It’s all just counterattacks and amplification. Try being quietly depressed for a while.
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I’m neither depressed nor elated. Just looking at what seems to be going on, thinking about it, reading analysis from people whose thinking generally seems sound, asking for facts and sources to back up claims I have seen no warrants for (e.g., Trump said that he can’t wait to take power from ‘the Kenyan’ this morning). Reality bites, but it’s the one I have to operate in.
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Nor quiet.
😉
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Love you, FLERP.
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MPG: Now that the election is over, will you PLEASE go away? You don’t add anything to the conversation but vitriol and nastiness. You’ve had your day of gloating. Now please go.
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he has nothing to do with his life. Probably everyone he knows is tired of listening to him, and he spends his time trolling. let him talk to your hand… when no on enamors his comments, he will find some other blog to troll.
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Go to my post here http://www.opednews.com/articles/How-Could-This-Happen-The-by-Susan-Lee-Schwartz-Citizens_Democracy_Democrat_Election-161109-261.html or read it below… how it happened… the REALIT …the crux…the factors.
I cried last night… and this morning I figured it out. I am no pundit, ‘merely’ a former teacher and a playwright) , born in 1941, who sees what is afoot on our national stage.
Here are the factors that led us to the triumph by a monster. If Trump won, it is because of these things — my humble analysis, about this assault on our electoral process, — after watching the enormous and carefully planned, successful assault on something else which was granted to our nation by our founding fathers— our institution of public education.
First of all, the CRUCIAL FACTOR is THE enormous pain of our people,! In a nation that is vastly ignorant about our history AND uninformed about what is afoot NO ONE- not the DNC–, paid attention to the PAIN of the masses of our people – the middle class, which was not just hurting, but impoverished and robbed of their homes, their livelihood and their future, as the GOP gave us INCOME INEQUALITY ON A MASSIVE SCALE.
Do not miss that link, even if you do not read the rest of my analysis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM Trust my voice… go there, because it is THE reason why the people voted for Trump! You will not forget that last chart at the link… because that is WHY Trump won, and why Bernie would have won, if the DNC had not did its corrupt little thing.
The middle class has been torn apart with austerity. The GOP made the people suffer — while allowing two trillion dollars of our GNP to be sent out of the country and blaming Obama.
This made it so easy to for the media — which is totally owned by the oligarchs — to use the POLLING DATA — by all the self-appointed PUNDITS — to hide the reality:
“The numbers weren’t just a poor guide for election night — they were an off-ramp away from what was actually happening,” said Jim Rutenberg: “The misfire on Tuesday night was about a lot more than a failure in polling. It was a failure to capture the boiling anger of a large portion of the American electorate that feels left behind by a selective recovery, betrayed by trade deals that they see as threats to their jobs and disrespected by establishment Washington, Wall Street and the mainstream media. Journalists didn’t question the polling data when it confirmed their gut feeling that Mr. Trump could never in a million years pull it off. They portrayed Trump supporters who still believed he had a shot as being out of touch with reality. In the end, it was the other way around.”
Never forget the reality , which is that “In the next Congress, the very survival of the court as an independent body will be at stake, as will our democracy — and the President will pick the justice. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/07/opinion/a-coup-against-the-supreme-court.html?em_pos=small&emc=edit_ty_20161107&nl=opinion-today&nl_art=2&nlid=50637717&ref=headline&te=1
The SECOND CRUCIAL FACTOR was the MEDIA’S Hatred CHANT:
Todd Gitlin’s: What’s Behind the Hillary Hatred Syndrome? http://billmoyers.com/story/hillary-hatred-revisited/ is a really a smart analysis, and many of the quotes below are taken from it. “The media obsession damaged her reputation, but the obsessives were not original: They were cringing before the Republicans’ tar-and-feather job —the fixation on emails, which had long been an addiction among Republicans and the right-wing media, suddenly became an addiction in the mainstream media as well. According to a Lexis-Nexis search, The New York Times, to cite one example, had seven stories that month with “Clinton” and “emails” in the headline. More important, most news sources reported erroneously that Clinton was the subject of a criminal investigation by the FBI.”
I read constantly, on all blogs and commentary threads, the tirades of bright people who made it sound as if she was responsible for everything that went wrong. Nick Kristoff, says in an article about her strengths: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/opinion/sunday/im-with-her-the-strengths-of-hillary-clinton.html?emc=edit_th_20161106&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=50637717
”One of the great misperceptions of this political year, among many Democrats and Republicans alike, is that Hillary Clinton is a third-rate candidate with no core or convictions” He goes on to say: “The public perception of her seems to me a gross and inaccurate caricature. I don’t understand the venom, the “lock her up” chants, the assumption that she is a Lady Macbeth; it’s an echo of the animus a lifetime ago some felt for Eleanor Roosevelt.(When Roosevelt spoke up for Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor, a letter in The Los Angeles Times thundered: ‘When she starts bemoaning the plight of the treacherous snakes we call Japanese (with apologies to all snakes), she has reached the point where she should be forced to retire from public life.’ Strong women sometimes drive people nuts.) In fact, what makes Hillary Clinton tick has always been a 1960s-style idealism about making the world a better place!”
I say: WHAT what MADE DONALD TICK — the LITTLE SQUIRREL RUNNING IN CIRCLES IN HIS BRAIN , YELLING “ME, ME, ME!”
THIRD CRUCIAL FACTOR: was the INTERNET RANTS. The media was ‘worked’ in tandem with the internet!
THE INTERNET followed the lead of the “Media organizations [which] followed the lead of Republicans whose bitter partisanship was, and remains, unparalleled — “consider the flood of abuse directed by the Republicans at Hillary Clinton over the Benghazi deaths of Ambassador Chris Stevens and three colleagues in 2012. Raked over the coals by Republican inquisitors in Congress who could never make a case that she had acted wrongly in Libya — and who, for that matter, never acknowledged that they had cut security funds for American embassies”
I read the endless ‘killery chants, even here at Oped, (where I consider the readership and editorial staff intelligent and well-read) insinuating that SHE DID IT… as if she made ALL the decisions — as if she were the president. But asTodd Gitlin points out at Bill Moyers: “… a secretary of state is not a president! She is a former secretary of state running for president… Clinton had to face long-drawn-out accusations of vastly greater malfeasance than when the 1983 bombing of the American Marine barracks in Beirut resulted in the killing of 241 American servicemen and women. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/feb/01/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-compares-benghazi-1983-attack-mari/
After that massacre, conducted on Ronald Reagan’s watch, a single Democratic House subcommittee conducted a six-week-long investigation. After the killings of the four Americans in Benghazi, the Republican-led House conducted seven investigations, one of which lasted three years; the Republican-led Senate conducted another one.” http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/12/hillary-clinton/clinton-there-have-been-7-benghazi-probes-so-far/
It was the media & the internet that did this, allowed opinion to stamp out truth!
The FOURTH CRUCIAL FACTOR was the DNC’S BLINDNESS: What to Blame for and Who’s To Blame: Excoriate the DNC by OPed publisher Rob Kall, http://www.opednews.com/articles/What-to-Blame-for-and-Who-by-Rob-Kall-Democrats-DNC_HILLARY-CONCEDES_Hillary-Clinton_Hillary-Clinton-Supporter-161109-535.html who nails it. For goodness sakes, there was Bernie — the charismatic, wonderful human being, whose reputation and experience was unassailable, and he had roused the very people who turned to the liar Trump, in order to get “the change” he offered. Even as the press pointed to his ’socialistic’ ideas, the DNC ignored the ’social’ movement of our masses, the “society” itself, the democratic party organization listened to the voices in their own head, and gave the nomination NOT to the man who could and would beat Trump, but to HRC!
There is A FIFTH FACTOR — she is a woman. Americans have gotten used to female secretaries of state but a PRESIDENT? “To use the metaphor du jour, the glass ceiling that used to hang over the State Department was smashed to smithereens. They went after her. “A Democrat running for president is going to be smeared by the Republicans. This goes without saying. But a Democratic woman running for president gets extra layers of smear,” says Alexandra Petri: “It is pretty funny. She must be a super-powerful woman to inspire so much fear and fantastic theorizing.” Petri’s article begins: begins: “Before Time, Before the Earth Was Made, Before Matter and Being and History: Hillary Clinton (Lucifer, Beelzebub, Lord of the Flies, Prince of Darkness, Satan, She Whose Many Names the Cats Scream in the Night) is cast out of heaven for overweening hubris. She is condemned to lie in eternal torment in a lake of fire surrounded by her fallen angels, or, alternatively, to run for a major office while female. For thousands of years she lies outside time, smelling of sulfur, before deciding to undertake the second option.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2016/10/14/the-hideous-diabolical-truth-about-hillary-clinton/?utm_term=.ce44768880df&wpisrc=nl_most-draw7&wpmm=1
Yeah, and she eats babies.
FINALLY, and many of you wont like this — and yes, I know, Yes, I know all about th e IDEAL and principles that underly our very democracy –such as our rights to be free to vote our conscience. But our freedom was at stake here.” I do not admire the noble idealists, who ignored the monster at the gates, and patted themselves on the back as good citizens, saying: ‘we gotta vote our conscience’ — even if we throw away our vote in this year when a dangerous fascist was running! That did it… those precious votes, squandered by people who supported could not possibly win— an ignorant idiot (what’s a ‘leppo’)? and to a jewish woman who NOBODY KNEW.
I gotta go, and get some tissues to dry my eyes, because I love my sons and my grandkids, and this fraud, this climate-change denier, this sick, ill-tempered liar, this ignorant child with a finger on a button that can loose Armageddon, is going to determine their future.
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Casino has set the over/under number for this post at 310.
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Hope you all put your money on the over!!
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Trump will be stacking the supreme court with hard right wingers ASAP. The GOP blocked Obama’s choice (a moderate) from even being discussed. Trump has said that he admires judge Napolitano, the Fox News host, and thinks he would be a fine supreme court justice. That’s just for openers. The GOP will give him carte balance to do whatever he wants. It’s not just the SCOTUS but also the lower courts that Trump can pollute with far right wingers. We all thought the GOP was self-destructing. Now the GOP controls the congress and the White House and the Democrats are yesterday’s garbage. I am just stunned that Russ Feingold lost again in that God forsaken state, Wisconsin, home of Right Wingers-R-Us. We have had a slow motion right wing coup d’etat. It’s now just about complete. America has become Missouri and soon will be a right to work (for less) country. So far, it looks like Hillary won the popular vote by about 200,000. The count is not complete and those numbers could change drastically in her favor.
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I suggest stop referring to the popular vote. It has no impact on final decision. Neither Clinton nor Trump invented the system.
You have to evaluate how come the wins/losses. That should give enough good for thought to try again.
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Republicans like the electoral college because it offsets the big urban centers.
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I can’t decide what I feel about the electoral college, but It bothers me that without it the cities could control elections and ignore the needs of more rural areas. At the time we went with a bicameral legislature and decided membership needed to recognize the needs of big vs. small states, the country was pretty much rural. The electoral college probably gave additional weight to more urban centers that would have been underrepresented otherwise. Now, we may be facing the opposite issue: would rural areas be underrepresented without it? Strict numbers (as we all should recognise by now) do not necessarily fairly represent a situation. Opinions?
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There is a reason that the founding fathers wanted a representative democracy an not a direct democracy.
The problem is that the electoral process has been corrupted by the oligarchs, (or what ever you call them…that cabal of zillionaires who have purchased the legislators, the governors and are about to control the Supreme court, when that monster appoints right-wing tea-party sycophants.
Gerrymandering states, check-lists of people with the same names, who are supposed to have voted twice, and all manner of regulations that make it impossible for working folks ,…like blacks and latinos who often work 2 jobs…to get to the voting site,
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Rudy,
I suggest you stop telling people not to refer to the popular vote.
It tells you that Trump does not have a mandate. No doubt he will claim it. There is something almost brilliantly evil about the Republicans complete and utterly embrace of dishonesty. When G.W Bush lost the popular vote and squeaked out a (kinda) electoral college win, he claimed a mandate and went for it.
When Obama won handily both the popular vote and electoral college, the Republicans swore to block everything he did because he had no mandate.
Trump insists that the process is rigged and if he wins more popular votes, he may or may not decide to concede. However, now that he won the electoral college, no doubt he will claim a mandate despite having lost the popular vote.
In any event, Rudy, if you adore all of Trump’s racist and xenophobic plans, you will certainly want us not to mention the popular vote.
Those of us who hope to prevent him from enacting his racist and xenophobic plans will continue to do so.
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The SYSTEM is what it is. When the democrats had the majority, action could have been taken – but it wasn’t.
As I read through the myriad of posts, everybody gets blamed for Clintons loss – except Clinton.
That’s stepping away from reality. No, I’m not a Clinton fan, and I’ll gladly admit that I’m definitely not a trump fan either.
But I am enough of a realist to understand that he had enough “issues” that, had he lost, only ONE person could and should be blamed.
Clinton had several options to make different choices. Email issue? Own it. Don’t try to spin it, own it.
Foundation donations and face time with the Secretary? Own it.
The DNC did not help either, with such clear statements about attitude against Sanders
Those are home grown issues that had an impact.
The RNC did not have to invent stuff about Clinton, like the DNC did not have to invent stuff about trump. Every time he opened his mouth, it was like a train load of ammo got delivered, for free
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Hmm. I like owning issues.
Like not paying taxes, and hiding the shenanigans that a look at your taxes would reveal…like the people who enrich your pockets.
Hmmm. one it…like the myriad lawsuits filed against Trump, from contractors and people whom he defrauded as he walked away with the profits, and the students who got shafted… Yes, that is like the email scandal, even though Powell;s handling of email was pretty much the same.
Hmmm… this man who loves secrets is going to have access to ALL the info that the FBI and CIA have. Trained by Roye Cohen to double down , he is going get those who hurt him.
The office of the president for him is ALL about him a troubled child.
You can point to the flaws and the past if HNC, things that are blown out of proportion by the media (owned totally by 5 oligarchs) and by the trolls on the internet but this is a false equivalency.
Morever, \ here at this place, where bright informed people talk, you have chosen to speak, and we do hear you… but you get all bent out of shape when we say to YOU..”hat nonsense! This climate denier, who support racists is not on the same planet as that dedicated, hard-working, brilliant, woman experienced in government”
Boo, hiss. Rudy. Sell you nonsense somewhere else!
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You are right. Trump needs to own those. And he does. Not denying, not blaming anyone else. I don’t particularly care about his attitude as to how he owns.
But Clinton lost – for the second time, after being seen as an automatic winner. Many said that it was hers to lose…
It seems that accepting personal responsibility is something people in this country have issues with. It’s always the fault of someone else.
My kids gets bad grades. Must be a bad teacher. I don’t get promoted. Must be a bad boss.
Clinton lost. Must be those bad republicans.
Politics is a dirty game. From both sides.
What I would like to see is a condemnation of the violence going on now, protesting against trump. Why destroy others property??? Is that really the way to do this?
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There is no excuse for these violent protests. They represent the so-called left acting like everything they claim is horrid about the so-called right. The protests in and of themselves seem premature and strategically and tactically ill-considered. But when they become violent in the face of . . . absolutely NOTHING, then they are worse than stupid: they’re completely counter-productive and likely to reap the whirlwind.
The Clinton camp issued a couple of statements today that both put the responsibility for her loss elsewhere. How anyone can respect that is beyond me. She should have issued exactly one statement: congratulations to the president-elect. Anything she or her people state by way of pinning the blame on others is bilge and diminishes all involved. There are obvious mistakes she and her people made, not the least of which are underestimating Trump and offering monolithic insults to his supporters, as if there were clear evidence that most of them were white, male misogynistic, homophobic, xenophobic racists. Were some of them one or many of those? No doubt. But last I checked, none of those things are actually illegal in the United States. Not yet, anyway.
What was missed was that NAFTA and other trade agreements that the Clintons backed cost this country a lot of jobs, hurt the working and lower middle classes big time, and after the debacle of the Bush years and the housing-market-led economic collapse, Obama failed to take those responsible to the woodshed. Instead, he rewarded them for their greed, incompetence, and dishonesty, and did it with the money paid by the American taxpayer.
I can’t imagine why anyone would be disgruntled by that or opposed to a candidate who is associated with these trade agreements. No, anyone who didn’t vote for her HAD to be just flat out evil. There’s just no other explanation.
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Susan, those who expect respect had better give some. You hate what I have to say (at least these days; once upon a time you looked more favorably on my opinions, or don’t you recall those halcyon times?), so you decide to attack how I say it and to whom. I’m wrong because. . . I’m not aligned with your analysis. Hence, I should be either trashed or ignored.
Now here comes Rudy, not a veteran here as far as I recall, and you are quite comfortable insulting and dismissing him and his views. You closed with, “Boo, hiss. Rudy. Sell you nonsense somewhere else!”
I would love to know when you had the hot-line to ultimate truth installed.
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Emails? Own them. She did. It was the Republican Congress that spent untold amounts of money in the process of 6(?) commissions to find nothing criminally wrong– to find that she had done nothing her Republican predecessors hadn’t done? Where was the outrage over Beirut? The great communicator could do no wrong. Hillary made lots of mistakes. She could have used acting lessons, lots of them. They seemed to serve Reagan well. Over the years I think she found it smart to just stop responding defensively to every call to publicly explain herself. She fulfilled her governmental responsibilities and did not hold press conferences to explain herself again and again and again. Her mistake was in not being able to highlight her policy successes, allowing the spin to define her in our minds. As Secretary of State she probably did not see it as appropriate. She served the administration, not herself. I don’t know how she kept going when quitting would have seemed to make sense. How may times can one person get kicked in the pants and still get up again? She is not a particularly good campaigner. She looks uncomfortable and stiff. Her private persona seems to earn her kudos and she gets the job done. Apparently she was quite a good Senator, the first elected role where her work was hers alone. All along she has been tainted by innuendo that never seems to go much beyond that. Where there is smoke is there fire? The smoke certainly had me sold, but when it cleared a bit…less so.
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Hm, blaming staffers for not having made the rules clear or hiding behind a concussion – not really the same as owning.
Benghazi – same thing. Staffers got the blame for not involving her soon enough or detailed enough or…
Again, every time trump opened his mouth, there was yet one more thing for others…
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“Again, every time trump opened his mouth, there was yet one more thing for others…”
Huh?
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Ammunition. Trump did more to hurt himself than DNC/Clinton ever could
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Dems can own it: http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/
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Donna Brazile unrepentant about rigging primary debates; would do it again if given the chance: http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/donna-brazile-im-only-sorry-i-got-caught-cheating-with-debate-questions/
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Dienne,
I don’t think you will be satisfied until Hillary is locked up. You won with Trump. Enough of the venom.
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You do realize that the question that Brazile e-mailed wasn’t asked and a different one was.
A different question that Bernie nailed.
Did it even occur to you that both sides might have been given a heads up on questions?
I don’t recall Bernie himself saying anything about this. He seems like a very honest guy. So maybe he was aware that what Brazile did was the same thing that all campaigns did. Maybe someday a reporter will ask him that question. Are you 100% certain that no staff in your campaign ever got any leaks of what a question in any of your debates were likely to be?
After all, he nailed the question in Flint that Clinton supposedly got the advance question about. Only the question was not what Brazile implied (which was incredibly vague to begin with).
Just trying to keep the record honest here. Because Brazile’s “advance” question was so vague as to be useless. Everyone in both campaigns knew they’d get a question in Flint about the poisoned water. Even I knew that! That’s all Brazile said and it turned out the question asked was not something that someone who prepared for “what would you do about this issue” could answer. It was about a very specific policy or regulation that Hillary did not seem to know enough about to simply answer yes or no. And Bernie certainly did.
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Here is a positivish spin on things: people wanted something different, so bad that they were willing to vote even for Trump just to get it.
I know quite a few Trump supporters (this is Tennessee), and most are lovely, well educated people. They told me the above.
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Michael Moore was right. Trump is the Molotov cocktail the rust belt just threw through the front window of Washington DC.
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Yes, but the Molotov cocktail hit a trampoline and is bouncing right back into the angry crowd from whence it came. They are in for the explosion of a lifetime, and little do they suspect it, metaphorically speaking.
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I do love your metaphors.
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The MAJORITY of Americans voted for Hillary Clinton instead of Donald Trump! But we lost her because of the antiquated Electoral College.
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Post Election Outcomes in LA….at :LAUSD today….just published on Patch
Los Angeles Schools Offer Counseling in Wake of Trump’s Election
With an overwhelmingly Latino student body, LAUSD is offering counseling to students experiencing anxiety in the wake of the election.
By Paige Austin (Patch Staff) – November 9, 2016 7:55 pm ET
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Los Angeles Schools Offer Counseling in Wake of Trump’s Election
LOS ANGELES, CA – Students at the nation’s second largest school district will have access to counseling in the wake of the polarizing presidential election, the Los Angeles Unified School District announced Wednesday.
Los Angeles, a beacon for immigrants, went 3 to 1 in favor of Hillary Clinton, and thousands of children whose parents are immigrants fear for their families under A Donald Trump presidency.
“As students and staff arrive at school today, we know there may be feelings of fear and anxiety, especially within our most vulnerable communities,” LAUSD Board President Steve Zimmer wrote in a letter to families. “The District is providing additional supports to those who need it.”
In a district where 74 percent of the students are Latino, students will have access to additional support including counseling, an LAUSD spokeswoman said.
(BoE prez) Zimmer appealed to teachers and administrators to be a force of stability for anxious students..
“With emotions running high, our schools will continue to be the anchors of our neighborhoods,” he wrote. “We ask our teachers and school leaders to continue their amazing work of listening to our students and striving together to assure that public education is the great civil rights engine of democracy.”
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“Make America Great Again” is code for “Let’s Go Back to the Fifties” when women and minorities knew their place and weren’t trying to compete in the workforce. A time where men preferred their wives barefoot and pregnant with dinner on the table if and when they got home. A time when women didn’t have any control over their reproductive rights and when spousal abuse was a big secret. Where women were stuck in unhappy marriages because of financial constraints and the male figures in their lives made all the decisions.
With Planned Parenthood and Roe vs Wade on the chopping block, there is cause for more than a little concern. My daughter, who is climbing the leadership ladder in the banking system, called for reassurance that her career won’t be affected. I told her not to worry, but I’m hedging my bets with some heavy praying.
Hopefully a vote for Trump was NOT a vote for Back to the Future.
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And those were the people who had it good! How many Americans of richer hue look back on the ’50s with any measure of fondness?
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The 50s did, however, give us Sgt. Bilko and Your Show of Shows. But then again, as Public Enemy reminded us, “You never saw a black man on the Honeymooners.”
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We got a faux “Indian” on the Lone Ranger. I want to say Spanky and His Gang, but I think they were called something else. I hated the Honeymooners. They didn’t act like my parents at all. My father used to sit and roar at them, but they just scared me. He liked Sgt. Bilko,too. He was okay, not threatening. Thanks for the brief reprieve.
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How many mammograms does PP perform per year?
How many actual medical treatments are taking place outside abortion at PP clinics?
Referrals are not treatments, right??
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Women are trying to get appointments to have their reproductive needs met before their local Planned Parenthood closes or they lose their health insurance.
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A little bit of background: http://www.factcheck.org/2015/09/planned-parenthoods-services/
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Flos56,
I totally agree. Bring on the old white boys club of Gingrich, Giuliani, Christie, etc. where women are relegated to the positions of “bunnie” and “cutie.”
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We would be happy to get Christie out of Jersey, but sorry to the rest of y’all.
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HInd sight is 20/20. We can banter all we want, but that will not solve any of the problems we may or may not be facing. Many of us do not like the character traits in Trump, but the voters have spoken.
I do like Bernie’s statement he made and I sure hope that all our congressmen follow suit.
Have you read Peter Greene’s article today?
http://curmudgucation.blogspot.com/2016/11/teaching-in-trumps-america.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FORjvzd+%28CURMUDGUCATION%29
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I am sick and in tears.
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No on can deny that it is an incredible achievement for one man to take on both parties and win handily. He knew what he had to do to get elected and did it. What he actually does or feels is yet to be seen. All of the vitriol against him was fanned by the mass media to a point of hysteria for some, and I use that term for both sexes. He was a real threat to the entire establishment. He did what he had to do, held his ground, and his instincts were right. I will leave it at that. that is what it took to beat Hillary and the entire establishment. Those who are putting reams of information on this sight, consider that no one will read such volumes, and that they should speak for themselves and be concise. Mark Twain once said that “No one was ever converted after the first twenty minutes of a sermon.”
I will leave with an interesting piece by Paul Craig Roberts.
Sorry to be so verbose.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/11/09/progressives-prefer-nuclear-war-to-white-trash-americans-paul-craig-roberts/
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Joseph,
Why did he never release his taxes?
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I am sure that there are things there that could be used against him, though he has never been guilty of a crime in this area of taxes (as far as In know). He won without releasing them. He probably played the system as was allowed, the same way he withheld his taxes. That is why billionaires may choose not to run for president. That said, he was able to bypass the dependency of politicians on outside money to win “the primary”.
This discourse, along with the missing emails, were part of battle that has already been fought. On the table now are pardons that will come from Obama relating to Hillary and her Foundation itself, which will be worth watching, as possible indictments could be forthcoming. The Democrats, including Robert Reich and Michael Moore, are very angry at the Dems, and look to a new “and open” beginning, as they lick their wounds, reorganize, and put the Clintons behind them.
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There is no legal requirement for him to do so. Like there seems to be no legal requirement for him to put his businesses into a blind trust. Seems president and Vice President are exempt.
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Here on the Bill Moyers blog is A morning after piece that resonates.
Gazing Into the Abyss:
http://billmoyers.com/story/abyss-republican-democratic-party-republic/
Long before the final results, many Americans knew that our body politic had suffered a seizure after being injected with a poison that nothing in Hillary Clinton’s politics was potent enough to expel.
The impotence of that kind of politics — its inability to draw from wellsprings deeper than bromides about breaking glass ceilings, “fighting” for families and children, and slashing college tuition — has little to do with Clinton’s character or alleged corruption or even with the undoubted wave of misogyny in this election.
Both wings of the political establishment spent 30 years mixing the toxic cocktail that devastated Republicans’ own base and has cost all of us a republic.
It has a lot more to do with the failure of the American establishment — all of it, from Wall Street to business-corporate management to the pundits and politicians in Washington — to respect and, yes, to nurture the civic-republican (small “r”) virtues and beliefs that a liberal-capitalist has to rely on but that neither the liberal state nor markets do very much to sustain or defend. The liberal state can’t do it because it’s not supposed to judge between one way of life and another. Markets can’t do it because their very efficiency and productivity depend on approaching consumers and investors as narrowly self-interested for business purposes.
But the business of the American republic is not business, and that’s why we have to rely on the institutions of civil society — the churches, the civic associations, the WMCAs and Little Leagues, the colleges and schools — that are being destroyed by omnivorous markets and casino-like financing.
Resentment against that regime won last night. The soulless “New Democrat” neoliberal paradigm has alienated the public as fully as Republicans’ enslavement to conservative fiscal orthodoxy.
Both wings of the political establishment spent 30 years mixing the toxic cocktail that devastated Republicans’ own base and has cost all of us a republic. We’ve had massacres in our streets and schools, road rage, gladitorialization in our sports, escapism in our entertainments, atomization of communities and relentless, predatory lending and marketing of fraudulent palliatives to us as “sovereign” consumers trapped like flies in a spider web of 800-numbered, internet-tracking pick-pocketing machines.
The most telling assessment of these consequences of the privatization, financialization, militarization and criminalization of American life is AlterNet editor Don Hazen’s essay, “The 4 Plagues: Getting a Handle on the Coming Apocalypse.”
My own explanations came, first, on the Fourth of July, 2014, in a long essay that prompted The New Yorker’s Hendrik Hertzberg to call me “the Jonathan Edwards of civic-republicanism” (Edwards was the Puritan who preached the sermon “Sinners in the hands of an angry God” 5 miles from where I grew up), and again here last March, in one of the first essays to explain how both party establishments had betrayed us and left us with Trump. His rise in the Republican primaries then signaled the metastasizing of “resentment politics.”)
They sowed the wind, and now they have reaped the whirlwind.
The spread of nihilism and resentment is also a consequence of a 20-year-long insinuation of fine-spun malevolence into our bloodstreams by the deep-pocketed conservative noise machine, from Rupert Murdoch’s FOX News and New York Post and his Wall Street Journal’s editorial pages to non-electoral campaigns funded by the Bradley, Scaife, Koch and other truly “right wing” foundations that blamed our national distempers on campus “political correctness,” “voter fraud” and labor unions.
They sowed the wind, and now they have reaped the whirlwind. Conservatives dined out so long on the follies of reactive, frightened liberals that they forgot how to cook for themselves and abandoned their kitchen to Donald Trump. Liberal Democrats, having lost touch with deeper wellsprings, have bobbed and weaved and crouched defensively, sometimes even outdoing the Republicans at their own games, from drone killings to deportations.
What about those missing, untapped wellsprings of civic-republican strength?
My own answers are somewhat counterintuitive but very American in an old, foundational way that I wish more of us would confront. I sketched them two summers ago in a long essay for Democracy Journal, picked up by The Atlantic, on how some strands of our Puritan heritage might help us to see through the neoliberal and conservative paradigms imploding all around us.
To “free market” claims that the world is flat — claims the East India Company and some apostles of the Enlightenment were making even 400 years ago — Puritans answered that the world has abysses, opening suddenly beneath our feet and in our hearts, and that we need coordinates and a faith strong enough to plumb those depths and face the demons in them and in ourselves.
Here’s how I described what they’re still trying to tell us. To see someone trying to tap those wellsprings read this, from British-American poet W.H. Auden’s ode “In Memory of W. B. Yeats,” his contemporary, who’d written of centers that cannot hold as the best lose all conviction and the worst are filled with passionate intensity.
When Yeats died, in 1939, as fascist war clouds gathered over Europe, Auden gave voice to the prescient dread that many Europeans and, now, Americans like me, are feeling today. His only hope lay in an intrepid poetic spirit that carries the Puritan understanding of those worldly abysses and of the divided human heart that has its own abysses, too. We will now have to learn to look into liberal freedom’s dark depths and find something to praise in it.
In the nightmare of the dark,
All the dogs of Europe bark.
And the living nations wait,
Each sequestered in its hate.
Intellectual disgrace
stares from every human face
And the seas of pity lie
Locked and frozen in each eye.
Follow, poet, follow right
To the bottom of the night,
With your unconstraining voice
Still persuade us to rejoice.
With the farming of a verse
Make a vineyard of the curse.
Sing of human unsuccess
In a rapture of distress.
In the deserts of the heart
Let the healing fountains start,
In the prison of his days
Teach the free man how to praise.
===
In other words: Keep the faith, valiant against all disaster.
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For your consideration: https://regiehammblog.wordpress.com/2016/11/09/president-trump/
“What I DON’T believe is that we’re about to turn into Nazi Germany (and I’ve read some posts from people who actually believe that). I don’t think we’re going to roll back to the 1950s in our social order. If Donald Trump is anything, he’s as immersed in current pop culture as Miley Cyrus. A man who was a regular guest on Howard Stern isn’t going to be interested in a puritanical revival of any kind. He’s not coming after “the gays” or the “transgender.” To the contrary, when Caitlyn Jenner (formally the aforementioned Bruce) asked him where she could use the restroom in his hotel, his answer was “use which ever one you feel comfortable in.”
The point is, we might be projecting some of our own irrational fears onto a man who is definitely flawed …but probably not evil incarnate.”
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It is interesting to see the media fomenting rebellion after, as well as before, the election.
It has been established that the Clinton campaign hired professionals to do so at Trump rallies, and with the media support, this could become serious. So called non profits did this in other countries such as the Ukraine to overthrow the elected president. Could our oversees efforts at “regime change” be coming home to roost. “Trump must go” is sounding like “Assad must go”, both duly elected heads of State. Hillary said that Edward Snowden must submit himself for trial, after seeing what happened to Chelsea Manning,
Will Hillary, or seek pardon herself.
The media is venting about Hillary winning the popular vote, when both side knew that the game was about the Electoral College and campaigned according. To change the event to the popular vote, as having meaning, when no one was trying for it, is moving the goal posts unfairly.
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Not to worry, Joseph, Trump was elected. As for “paid protestors,” who is paying them now?
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Well, “obviously” those who lost… IF, of course, there is any payment involved at all. People speak up in a legitimate way (other than the damages caused). Why would anyone need to be paid for that?
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“The latest vote totals show Clinton with 60,212,217 votes, a razor thin lead over Trump’s 59,875,788. That number will change as absentee and other ballots come in but if Clinton’s lead holds, she will become the first presidential candidate since Al Gore in 2000 to win the popular vote but lose the White House.”
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/11/popular_vote_totals_for_presid.html
With more than 60 million votes cast for Clinton, there will be no need to pay anyone who wants to go out and protest.
Trump is not the president of the majority, because a majority of the voters did not elect him. He was elected by a majority of the 538 electors of the Electoral College. The Electoral college is a process, not a place.
What is the Electoral College? It was a compromise made between America’s Founding Fathers.
https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/about.html
An old former friend of mine who is a member of the Alt-Right complained about how the majority vote in California would decide who got all of California’s Electoral College votes. This old friend didn’t like Trump but voted for him anyway and he wanted his vote to count. He said the Electoral College votes in California should be divided according to the popular vote. He blamed this on the Democrats in California and said they are responsible for all of California’s Electoral College votes going to the candidate that wins the popular vote in the state.
I pointed out in a return e-mail that all but two states did the same thing California does, and about half the states were governed by Republican governors and/or majorities in their state legislators and asked him how he could blame the Democrats in California for this without blaming all the Republican dominant states that did the same thing.
He never replied. Not unusual. He has never responded when he can’t defend his thinking or dismiss what I say. This was one of those times.
If we were to divide the Electoral College votes in each state by the popular vote in each state instead of winner take all, I think Clinton would have won with that razor thin margin.
Clinton 60,212,217 (50.14 percent of the vote)
Trump 59,875,788 (49.86 percent of the vote)
Total 120,088,005
538 x 50.14 = 269.75 Electoral votes + the VP casts the tie breaking vote.
538 x 49.86 = 268.2
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http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/11/11/the-anti-trump-protesters-are-tools-of-the-oligarchy-paul-
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This is twice now that Dems have been cheated by electoral college, an institution created to prevent change.
Yes Trump is the president but the EC has to go.
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http://history.house.gov/Institution/Electoral-College/Electoral-College/
Interesting read
Historically, then, only 1 Republican has lost due to the Electoral college?.
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The electoral college favors small states, rural states, not urban areas. Thus it tends to favor Republicans, not Democrats, whose base is usually urban districts.
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Diane “the electoral college favors small states, rural states, not urban areas. Thus it tends to favor Republicans, not Democrats, whose base is usually urban districts.”
Diane, actually this is not correct. I just made some calculations regarding this. For example, the collective voting power of the big red mountain states is not as great as the voting power of the small blue North Eastern states.
Similarly, the big red states collectively have it worse than the big blue states.
On the other hand the red states are consistently favored by the electoral college. Not by much, but enough to raise my eyebrow, and ask “Can this be accidental?”
You may think, this last statement contradicts the first two, but it doesn’t.
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Considering the fact that the electoral college was instituted in 1801, that most of the states were not states yet, you would have the conspiracy of all conspiracies…
not only that, but you also have to decide where people are going to live, and their political leanings would be determined.
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I don’t understand what you are saying, what conspiracy you are referring to. I stated three different things. Which one is a conspiracy?
In any case, numbers are not conspiracy. Numbers are numbers. Lemme show you one instance:
Total red state population (P) this year: 181,372,010
Total Red state electors (E): 304
Red P/E: 596,618
Total blue state population (P) this year: 140,046,810
Total Red state electors (E): 233
Blue P/E: 601,059
The difference between the two P/Es is small, 0.7%, but it’s there.
You see similar, but more significant differences if you look at the states more closely. For example, calculate P/E for each state, and rank the 51 states based on this ratio. I divided then the states on this ranking into 3 groups (I wanted to see the effects of the mountain states and such).
What I found that in each of these three groups, the P/E ratio was favorable to the Red states. In two groups, the difference is over 5% and in one it’s .8%.
I dunno the cause of this difference, and if I started to speculate, then I’d start making up a conspiracy.
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You made a statement at the end of you original post about the numbers and the divisions re democrats and republicans re electoral college “Makes you think, doesn’t it?”
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In Michigan they call it the “Deer Hunter” vote.
White union guys who are UAW loyalists but also like guns and hunting. They can easily vote for Bernie or Trump. They will not vote for Hillary. They decide elections.
They believe the Clinton’s support of NAFTA destroyed their entire way of life. It cost they their jobs,their houses, their cars and in many cases their marriage.
To this critical block the Clintons are the source of all evil. So what does the DNC and establishment wing do? They go for an early corination of Clinton and Debbie Waserman Schultz and Donna Brazil types actually cheat against Bernie.
Todd Gitlan says the Dems now look like a dumb bell with a big minority weight on one end and a professional middle class on the other but very little in between.The unions are still loyal to the Dems but the Dems are not loyal in return.
A progressive coalition that does not include at least the northern half of the white working class will not win. Thomas Frank gets this but few others get it.
The Dems have gone too far with identity politics that excludes white working class males.
They left the door wide open for Trump. Dumb as a bag of hammers.
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Of course. And this: http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/40206-it-was-the-rise-of-the-davos-class-that-sealed-americas-fate
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Tulsi Gabbard posted this:
“I started my day this morning by putting on my Army Service Uniform, remembering the brave men and women I’ve had the privilege of serving alongside, and preparing to make my way to the West Hawaii Veterans Cemetery for Veterans Day. In all of the political chaos that we have witnessed and experienced this year, it’s important that we pause today to honor the service of our veterans and remember the values that they sacrificed for.
I want to take a brief moment this afternoon to share my thoughts with you regarding what has happened over the last two days.
First of all, I am proud of the campaign we ran. I’m grateful for your support that enabled us achieve an overwhelming victory. I am deeply honored and humbled to represent the people of Hawai’i and will continue to do my best to bring the spirit of aloha to our nation’s capital.
I especially want to thank all of our dedicated supporters and volunteers here in Hawaii, as well as those of you who reached out from near and far to offer your support. Your enthusiasm reminds me that we find community not only in the landscape of a common home but also in the landscape of a common hope and a common vision.
Nationally, we’ve just closed what has been a bitter, divisive campaign season that has left deep, open wounds for millions of Americans. There’s much that remains unknown about what we can expect in the months to come, but what I do know is that now more than ever our progressive movement requires focus and an “all hands on deck” approach.
Beyond the results of one election, however, the deeper tragedy is that as Americans we have become alienated from each other. Beneath the anger, distrust and divisiveness is a pervasive anxiety that we are becoming unglued instead of coming together as a nation.
If we want to preserve the foundation of our democracy, it’s vital that we find common ground that allows us to work for the greater good of this nation. This does not mean giving up our values. This does not mean swallowing a bitter compromise. Finding common ground means reaching out with respect and aloha, despite the issues that divide us, despite the hurt, despite the fear, and recognize what unites us as human beings.
If you believe the angry box in your living room, you might conclude that America is so deeply divided that finding common ground is impossible. But I don’t believe that for a second. When I walk around my neighborhood, the grocery store, or the farmers market, I don’t see Democrats or Republicans, Progressives or Conservatives. I see my brothers and sisters – living, breathing human beings, with diverse and complicated stories, views and desires that can’t be packaged neatly in a box. I see their fear and anxiety. I see their frustration with a government they don’t feel is listening to them. And I see that there are vast tracts of unexplored, common ground between us. With virtually no exceptions, we want our children to thrive and to feel safe in their home and in their neighborhood. We want peace, justice and the natural prosperity that results from hard work and innovation.
As I look at the way forward, I acknowledge there are challenges, and I choose to see opportunity. We have an opportunity to articulate a vision for peace by ending counterproductive regime-change wars. We have an opportunity to stand firm in our resolve to stop destructive trade deals. We must continue to illustrate the impacts that climate change is already having on communities around the world—especially our islands—and move forward on the issues that matter to us.
I hope you will join me as we start down this path toward real reform and progress. And as always, continue to fight for equality and respect for all people, regardless of race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, or any other external difference.
Thank you for everything,
Tulsi
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I did not sit down and write this, and then hit Post.
I read it several times to be sure I was explaining what I see as the issue, and how it is affecting me, you and others.
Please, read the whole thing before running a reply, like a tweet, onto this site.You see every argument as an attack. This is a response to your attack, even after being asked to stop.
I just cannot believe that you are still complaining about me. Not all sentences are the same. Statements vary, but some sentences are factual, some are accusations, some may even be questions. But accusations are very special, and insulting. They are geared to promote a response, especially when they are not based in fact. When I taught debate, this was crucial to learn.
Michael, you are only embarrassing yourself by attacking me,YET AGAIN
WHAT ARE YOU TO GAIN BY CONTINUING ON THIS PATH?
Even after you have been warned that this is a site for education issues, you do this?
The other site where I write is a news-site, and it is devoted to real issues and truth about all things.
You should read the publisher’s mission statement… about truth, as we all did… when he posted it., years ago. It ran for many pages, all devoted to his expectations for the site.
Do you even know who the publisher is and what he does?
http://www.opednews.com/author/author1.html
He is a very busy man, and has little time to spend on people who do not say within the parameters THAT HE he set for the site.
YOU insinuate that he is protecting me. It has nothing to do with ME! You cannot attack me with impunity in places where my reputation precedes me. YOU actually insinuated at Oped News, that I am “not as brilliant as I think I am”… your words… THERE!
What did you think would happen when you attack a writer/journalist at a site that knows her work and character? Everyone knew that this was an odious, and irrelevant remark! Geeze, I got messages asking why anyone would say such things about me.
They do not know your style, there , as readers here, do. You see, Michael, I became “a trusted voice” a year after I began to write or post there. That meant, that everything I said could be verified in some way, with evidence in links.It meant that my posts would be headlined, and posted as is, not edited in any way for content.Six years & THOUSANDS OF POSTS later, over half a million people have read my stuff.
I was told that what you wrote defined ‘ad hominem’ attacks. I did not have to appeal to anyone.
It is NOT a social blog. MIchael. if your comment, is flagged, it is because it was inappropriate, and unacceptable, not to mention hurtful to someone that brings readers to the site. My response to your vituperative, resonated with him and many of the editors.
People who think their attacks are ‘free expressions’ — protected opinions — are often surprised … and angry, too, when editors step in and say: Wait! What?
It is important to consider the integrity of the news-site, where Robert Reich, MIchael Moore (and yes, I, too,) write.
What you describe as your feelings about what I write, is ironically, reminiscent of what Mr. Trump feels about anyone who dares to differ with his viewpoint; he sees it as an attack on him! It is ironic, because THAT very behavior is one that you attributed to me in that comment! According to you, I live “in some ‘ivory tower,’ and I am out of touch, “ and I slime you and anyone with whom I disagree.
Mike, (that is my son’s name by the way) that DEFINES transference and is the height of irony for you to say that to me, because, Mike, It is WHAT YOU DO! And to say it to me THERE where I am admired, is to invite …well… at first…confusion and astonishment and then scorn!
Don’t blame me for what you bring on to yourself!
You know nothing about me, or you would know that I fought alongside of my high -school classmate, Bernie Sanders, from day one.
I committed and contributed to his campaign, and was a founding member, fighting for the very people who have been so down-trodden that they bought the ‘trump-lies,’ when Bernie wasno longer there to speak for them. To this day, I fight on– I organize events and participate in phone banks , in the BREV (Bernie Revolution, Rob’s twitter suggestion.) I fight on , t to bring REAL , GENUINE change —in Congress, and in local elections— the only way we can win against the forces at work.
Yet YOU sir, at Oped, where this is a known fact, ACCUSED ME of being out of touch, and not caring about or even knowing why people voted for Trump! Moreover, because I voted for Hillary, you Accused ME of thinking of them as “deplorables”.
Seriously. How did you imagine the editors would take that comment??? Did you think because you spoke it, then it would stand as truth and not be recognized as fallacious …and just plain MEAN!
YOU, sir, know nothing about me…only that I disagree with you, and find your commentary here distracts from real issues.
AND REGARDING …The sites upon which I write, Both are not social blogs. They are both run by brilliant people who thrive on truth, evidence based , observable reality. You are entitled to your opinion, but not to the facts. YOU demand and rage at those who will not come around to your way of thinking .
You just do not see the reality of the problem that you cause FOR YOURSELF when you face disagreement… and then, incredibly accuse ME of doing what defines your behavior.
I met a thousand people, (young but people nonetheless) over 4 decades as a teacher; I do not have to be ‘brilliant’, just experienced, to venture a guess — that what you do here is a behavior that you have used for years, a familiar one, when faced with those who cannot and will not accept that which you say as the reality.
Stop, Mike.It is hurting you and this site, and me… and know this, I will not allow you to bully me.
I see that you are now bullying Ellen, even though you have been warned.
The campaign season of mean attacks is OVER!
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This is one I will print! And will quote to you each and every time you make the same kind of remarks about others on this blog.
It is indeed very educational – in so many ways!
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AW, Rudy… you missed the point!
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Love your question.
Can’t stop the insults.
You never learn.
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“But there’s only so much whining and hypocrisy from one person that should be permitted here.”
Iif you cannot take it, then leave. No one is forcing you to take anything, but people here are being treated to a version of me, that is outrageous !
STOP!
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Postings are much too long. If we can’t express our ideas in a paragraph, no one will read it. Let’s share what “we” are thinking, possibly with an optional attachment, if one wishes to follow up
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Don’t read them! There is no obligation to read everything. You are allowed to edit what you read. Skim if you just can’t resist. You sound like you have sat through too many endless meetings or read too many papers from students not yet skilled in parsing their words. 🙂
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I feel like a deplorable, words might be parsed in the editing.
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I read long posts, because I know that thoughts are complex things.
What I feel is a real problem here, is the way that these ‘reply’ posts wander down the edge, instead of being put across the entire space.
THAT is what makes it look long,
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Most damaging emails from Wikileaks, read at your leisure,
http://www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com/
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Wayne Madsen is a respected journalist, are we looking at a “purple revolution”??
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/11/11/clintons-and-soros-launch-america-purple-revolution.html
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Hopefully there will be a Sanders -Warren take over of the Democratic Party with Thomas Frank as consultant and AFL-CIO as reference point.
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Still a bit skeptical of where Warren’s commitments and politics are. Wish I didn’t feel that way, but her failure to either endorse Bernie when it mattered or go for Hillary and explain why BEFORE there were no other contestants for the nomination was very off-putting. Sanders, Gabbard, Turner, Ellison, Teachout, I’m more sure of and able to support. There are no doubt others I don’t know who deserve similar trust and support. The old guard of the DNC/Clinton Machine are deader than dodos and should similarly bow out before they are forced out. They played a poor game and lost to the unthinkable. The worst candidate in modern history, we’re constantly reminded. The one they wanted as their “pied piper” opponent. Whoops!
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Link to nowhere?
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Trump is the least of our worries. He’s a wild card who might surprise us. But those bozos you just mentioned have a record so we already know the evil they are capable of perpetuating.
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I don’t consider this a credible source, but even if it is – so what?
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I wrote a webpage about the elections. I try to quantify some of the problems with the electoral system, and to my great surprise, a few of the well known statements turn seem be false or half truths at best.
I hope it is somewhat readable, though I do discuss statistics. The most difficult math is taking the ratio of two numbers.
http://wd369.csi.hu/apu/electoral.html
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We always learned that the electoral college was created to have a check on any problem that arose, that needed to be rectified. It was a way of tempering a situation
when the masses were out of control. But of course that would never happen now,
or would it. The unbridled popular vote was quite frightening to some of the founding fathers. The idea that a candidate would claim victory with the popular vote is anathema, since they know that it does not count. If they want to change it in the future, fine, but we may need it now more than ever. It may also reflect regional interests, protected from high population (immigrant) participation of some States. My comments are open to enlightened and accurate views on the subject, as well as corrections.
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The electoral college violates the principle of one adult one vote but so does the Senate. They are anachronism. There should be no special allowances for small states.
If the popular vote was king there would be a lost no such thing as “swing states” and this is all positive.
A vote in California should be equal to a vote in North Carolina. At present it is not.
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There is no incentive to listen to people who live in low population states without the Senate giving equal representation to every state. We are a very diverse country, far more than when the Constitution was written, and our interests are as diverse. I’m not sure why you would think that the country should be ruled by states that are dominated by large urban populations. That would certainly increase the tension between urban and rural areas. Just as individual states do not especially like state policy being dictated by their large urban areas, I can’t imagine why depriving those individuals of a voice at the national level would improve the situation. If we essentially disenfranchise them, what is their incentive to remain part of the U.S.? I am not talking about the Electoral College, only Congress, although I do think Máté’s analysis might be one way to guide reform there. I’m not sure how easy it would be to get 3/4 of the states to sign off on an amendment.
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It is FAR FAR more important that every vote be treated equally than that small states get EXTRA importance beyond their raw numbers.
One adult one vote is the core of the Democratic concept. Electoral College and the Senate are fetters on democracy. They serve to make America LESS democratic.
Picture this. No EC no Senate. Congressional boundaries set by independent committee to ensure that party that wins popular vote in each state gets more congressional reps guaranteed. President has no veto over congress.
That is what democracy looks like. Everything else is something less than democracy.
Here in Canada corporations and unions are forbidden from making political contributions in national elections and in most provinces. It will soon be all provinces.
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A system that gives 2 Senators to each state says Rhode Island = California. That is a pathetic joke.
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Canada is a country with a small population compared to the US.
If you restrict democracy to people, you are correct. But I think in a big enough population, some “natural” group interests (like the US states) should also be equal.
Imagine World president elections. Should China and India alone decide who the president will be?
Let’s just say this: popular vote is still better than having the electoral system where individuals decide what happens with a vote. It’s also a problem that in most states, the electoral votes go to the winner of the state’s votes.
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Maybe electoral votes should be allotted proportionally in each state, rather than winner take all.
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“Maybe electoral votes should be allotted proportionally in each state, rather than winner take all.”
If that was the case, there would be no need for electors—a good thisn, imo. Hence just introduce the completely objective “state voting factor” for each state which would be 3ish for Wyoming (since the current weight of a WY vote is about that under the electoral system) and it would be 1 for California (for the same reason).
The current practice of giving all state votes to one candidate led to an incomprehensible situation this year: Trump got 71 more electoral votes that Clinton. If you translated this 71 to number of voters this year, it would mean 16 million people. If the electoral votes had been distributed according to state vote count, then more than half of these 16 million votes, so 8 million, would have been counted for Clinton.
How much is 8 million? In only 3 states was the total number of voters more than 8 million: California (8.5 million), Florida (9 million), Texas (8.4 million).
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If we had a world government then yes China and India should have about 45% of the vote.
There is no such thing as a good enough reason why total vote should not be the sole criteria for elections. California and Texas and New York and Florida are profoundly internally diverse.
States like Alabama should see them self as “the South” New Haampshire” needs to see itself as part of New England. Kansas as part of a plains – mounting vote.
There is again no such thing as an argument that stands up against total raw vote except an anti-democratic argument.
The Founding Fathers as slave owning rich guys did not trust demoracy. That is why you got EC and Senate…. even non concurrent terms for Senate and off-peak elections are “checks on democracy” in other words anti- democratic.
The very idea that the candidate that did not win the popular vote or that Rhode Island and California each get 2 Senators is ludicrous on the face of it.
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We chose to exercise democratic principles through a federal republic. In choosing that form of government we are already recognizing the need to consider minority opinions.
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One cannot help but wonder about the ethics of complaining. Many on this list have spoken out against the Republican stand taken in President Obama’s first term: We will do everything we can to stop anything from happening.
This morning’s news (WP): “A growing chorus of Democrats is seeking to rally those within the party to unite around a common goal of resisting Trump.”
And here I am, mourning the death of a high school student, who could find no other response to possible bullying than taking her own life…
Have we lost all sense of what is right, and honorable, and responsible in this country???
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I was sent this link by a teacher who writes here. When I finished reading it, I knew what was happening. I sent it to some of the progressives that I know and they agreed that this is what is afoot. Neoliberalism: the deep story that lies beneath Donald Trump’s triumph | George Monbiot | Opinion | The Guardian
Don’t MISS THIS?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/14/neoliberalsim-donald-trump-george-monbiot?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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So Bill Clinton and Obama really bought into Reagan’s trickle down philosophy. Give the rich and powerful unfettered access to resources and somehow the rich would enlighten us as to the magnificence of their achievements?
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Good link, Susan. If you guys want something darker on the same topic, here is one which is directly related to education
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/23306-neoliberalisms-war-on-democracy
Pretty dense stuff almost in the style of Chris Hedges.
In addition to amassing ever-expanding amounts of material wealth, the
rich now control the means of schooling and other cultural apparatuses in the United States. They have disinvested in critical education while reproducing notions of “common sense” that incessantly replicate the basic values, ideas, and relations necessary to sustain the institutions of economic Darwinism. Both major political parties, along with plutocrat “reformers,” support educational reforms that increase conceptual and cultural illiteracy.
Critical learning has been replaced with mastering test-taking, memorizing facts, and learning how not to question knowledge or authority. Pedagogies that unsettle common sense, make power accountable, and connect classroom knowledge to larger civic issues have become dangerous at all levels of schooling. This method of rote pedagogy, heavily enforced by mainstream educational reformists, is, as Zygmunt Bauman notes, “the most effective prescription for grinding communication to a halt and for [robbing] it of the presumption and expectation of meaningfulness and sense.”18 These radical reformers are also attempting to restructure how higher education is organized. In doing so, they are putting in place modes of governance that mimic corporate structures by increasing the power of administrators at the expense of faculty, reducing faculty to a mostly temporary and low-wage workforce, and reducing students to customers—ripe for being trained for low-skilled jobs and at-risk for incurring large student loans.
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What is the lesson we are to learn from any suicide? The insidious destructiveness of clinical depression? The hopelessness and despair that drives some people to think that the only way out is to end their lives? All our disagreements do seem petty in the face of the grief of this child’s family and friends. Trump would not even be on my radar if someone close to me had committed suicide. My condolences.
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Thank you… It seems that on-line bullying may have contributed…
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“There is no incentive to listen to people who live in low population states without the Senate giving equal representation to every state. ”
Correct. But the electoral system is a problem: that individuals would decide what happens with a state’s votes. Make the whole thing automatic: each vote in a state should be multiplied by a factor, and that should be the weight of each vote in that state. For example, each vote in Wyoming should be multiplied by 3, in Michigan by, say, 2, and in CA or TX, the factor is 1.
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Yup.
” I am not talking about the Electoral College, only Congress, although I do think Máté’s analysis might be one way to guide reform there.
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“A vote in California should be equal to a vote in North Carolina.”
Then whatever Californians want, would likely happen, and whatever North Carolineans want, would likely not happen.
Maybe Calfornians wouldn’t mind yet another actor for president while North Carolineans would not.
But of course, there are more serious issues.
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We must recognize that people form their voting opinions based on the media available,
everyone is bombarded by powerful interests, which control the media more as it consolidates, one of the richest man in the world, Carlos Slim from Mexico has a controlling interest in the New York Times, which attacks Trumps NAFTA policy.
Maybe with the Electoral College, giving each State more power, we can make it more difficult for the entire population to be “brainwashed”, where “consent” would be harder to “manufacture”, allowing more freedom of expression across the country. Presently, consent is easer to manufacture in the densely populated areas. could this be what the founding fathers had in mind? Which is worse on the body politic, some off the cuff impolitic language from Trump, or the constant repetition of it. after the voters said that they were ready to forgive and move on, by their vote.
Teddy Roosevelt had some similar reactions to his style, coining the phrase “bully pulpit”, and taking down the robber barons of his time, the media and special interests were relentless in his time.
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Forget the media. Assume personal responsibility.
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forget the media and its consolidation into fewer and fewer channels?
Orwell once said that it is the educated liberal class most susceptible to mass media.. personal responsibility does have a nice ring to it, but the truth is in the eye of the beholder, emotions play a large part, too, which is why advertising is so successful.
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I want to make a point at this site, about the definition of AD HOMINEM, ATTACKS.
YES, I AMY AMKE A SPELLING MISTAKE , NOW AND THEN , WHEN AUTO-SPELL CHANGES THEIR TO THEIR, but I know what that latin phrase means.
SO….
One of the writers here, stalked me to the NEWS site where I have been a trusted voice for years , and decided that he did not need to address the topic or the article, which I wrote, but instead wrote an attack on me, and in 12 separate sentences accused me of all manner of things.
But, you see at that site, where conversation and debate is the heart and soul, and where truth (i.e. observable reality…facts) is required, has rules, and one of them is NO AD HOMINEM ATTACKS.
The publisher had a fit, and asked me if I wanted him to have no access to making comments! Seriously, I have the email.
I said, that that would be impinging on his freedom to make an ass of himself at this site where Robert Reich also writes, and that I am ok with simply flagging the remark. He asked me to write the flag, and although I was packing to visit my grandkids in Texas, I took the time to identify the ad hominem moments.
Thus, our favorite antagonist, who actually believes that I would take the time to email him after he defecated on my reputation where I am a trusted writer, is delusional.
And is is odd, and ironic, that the very folks who call for personal responsibility, are the very ones who pump nothing but antagonism here, and do not ever address the points that would move to clarity and solutions.
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Huh? sounds off topic, will need more details, that must be how Trump is feeling now.
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