The New York Times just posted a story that will appear in print tomorrow. It is the result of dogged efforts to understand Donald Trump’s finances. This is especially important since he refuses to release his tax returns. He seems to think the public has no right to know his income, how much he pays in taxes, how much he gives to charity.
The story reflects a detailed investigation of Trump’s holdings, including his debts, which are staggering. Trump once said, “I love debt!” He was not kidding. Some of his massive debts are owed to the Chinese national bank, some to Goldman Sachs. Who owns whom?
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Trump speaks out of both sides of his 2 mouths and other assorted bodily orifices too numerous to mention. When will his clown car of buffoonery finally explode in absolute ruins?
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I feel better. Trump owes more money than I do.
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More like who does Trump owe? The LLCs mean it could be anybody he is beholden to and we don’t know who he is dealing with.
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The examination did not include Mr. Trump’s dealings outside the United States.
Good start from the Times, but WOW, so much more to learn.
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Trump loves debt because he can file bankruptcy through his businesses that hold the debt to get rid of it. How many times and how much money have the banks and lenders lost to Deceitful Tricky Trump?
And while Tricky Trump’s companies are doing into debt and moving closer to bankruptcy, he has a history of giving himself raises as the CEO and taking out a lot of the money coming in that isn’t being used to pay off the debt.
That is what I’m going to call him from now on out: Deceitful Tricky Trump
Yep, Donald Trump’s compactness have declared bankruptcy…more than four times.
Click the link and add up the loses to Deceitful Tricky Trump’s creditors/lenders. The total was in the billions (plural)
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun/21/hillary-clinton/yep-donald-trumps-companies-have-declared-bankrupt/
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Given Trumps history of cheating his investors it seems Goldman Sachs will lend money to just about anybody.
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They lend money with the property as collateral. Trump is a gambler. He borrows using the property as collateral and if he loses, the lender takes the hit if the property isn’t worth the loan amount. Trump can’t lose. When one of his schemes fails, he still walks away with million he earned as the CEO of that venture and it is the corporation that fails. Why they keep lending to Trump, I have no idea. Maybe in the long run the lenders end up making more than they lost.
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He will NOT be elected, and neither North Korea nor China will be involved in precipitating a world war.
It’s a win/win/win.
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As a Republican, I’m deeply ashamed of this nominee. His speeches, actions are nothing I can stand behind.
And here we have the Clinton Foundation, whose bank account is filled with contributions from foreign governments and businesses.
The Question as to who owns whom is even more pressing here…
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Rudy,
Do you owe more to the people you owe money to or to the people who give you money?
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I would rather owe money than owe favors. Trump can declare bankruptcy and the problem is solved.
The Clintons can be called to return favors in exchange for millions of dollars.
Democrats have complained about big money in politics. Here’s big money in politics at an unprecedented level.
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Rudy, do you know how much money the Clinton Foundation is getting from foreign countries, superpaks, corporations and billionaires — time to fact check? In fact, before you condemn HRC for the money donated to her, check who donates to all the previous presidents going back fifty years to see if these same sources donate to all of them.
Politifact.com fact checked donations to the Clinton Foundation.
And reported that the Saudis gave the same amount they gave to the Clinton also to G. W. Bush.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jul/07/fact-checking-donations-clinton-foundation/
From Open Secrets.com
Hillary Clinton Career Profile since 1989
Make sure to compare the total to the amount of each individual donation.
The total is almost $600 million. Microsoft corporation for instance, donated about $472 thousand and that is less than 0.08 percent of the total. How much clout do you think Microsoft (Bill Gates) buys with that insignificant amount when compared to the total?
In additoin, 1 percent of the total comes from PAC Contributions.
https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cycle=Career&cid=N00000019&type=I
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Checked. You seem to have overlooked that Microsoft gave as a company, but the bill and Melinda gates foundation gave separately.
Qatar
Oman
Bahrain
Friends of Saudi Arabia
List goes on
If nothing else, the appearance speaks loudly.
Might have been better had Clinton decided to stop receiving donations from the moment she announced.
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I don’t think you checked to see how much money major power brokers in the GOP get and from whom. I will not accept going HRC without comparing her to everyone else who is running or ever ran for president. What HRC does to raise money to fund her presidential campaign is not an isolated incident.
For instance, Jeb Bush. Large Individual contributions made up 92 percent of the donations to his fundraising efforts before he dropped out of the presidential race.
https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/candidate.php?id=N00037006
What about Open Secrets on Donald Trump?
https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/candidate.php?id=N00023864
Note: Self-financing from Donald Trump is not a contribution. He is loaning that money to his campaign, and he expects to pay himself back with contributions from other people and organizations like the contribution from the GOP or the taxpayers. In 2012, Trump said in pbulic that if he ran for president, he’d make a profit doing it.
What about Ted Cruz?
Even though Cruz dropped out of the race, he still contributions flowing in from small and large individual contributions — $over 90 million.
https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/candidate.php?id=N00033085
What about Bernie Sanders?
https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cid=N00000528
Then there was President G. W. Bush in 2004. Look how much Goldman Sachs donated to his campaign and all the other corporations – the total was almost $370 million.
https://www.opensecrets.org/pres04/summary.php?cycle=2004&cid=N00008072
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No argument here – as long as you agree that unions, too, should be considered as a special interest group as well.
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Of course labor unions are a special interest groups. After all, they represent their members, the workers, so the interests of their workers is the special interest of the unions.
But labor unions are democratic organizations. Corporations and billionaires are not. If the leadership of a labor unions is not doing its job representing its members, they can be voted out in the next election. The customers and employees of Wal-Mart, for instance, can’t vote out the Walton family.
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Unions are democratic institutions???? I hope you forgive me for laughing at that.
Having had experience with unions I cannot share that statement.
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Rudy,
I assume you trust hedge funds and billionIres to protect the interests of working people.
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No. But the blinders regarding unions are just as bad.
—
If trump owing money to Chinese banks is such a bad thing, what does that say of the US government, whose second largest creditor is China?
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You are incredibly ignorant if you think that is funny. Labor unions are democratic organizations just like the U.S. government but without the Electoral College. The members vote for their union presidents from the locals, to the state, to the national level. The popular vote from the membership wins. There is no Electoral College to decide for the union members who the next president will be.
Every vote counts in a labor union election, and if you get a lying, corrupt leader, in the next election the members can vote them out or throw them out just like we almost did with Nixon and could have done with Reagan and attempted to do with Clinton.
In every election, voters who voted for the loser didn’t get the representative they wanted. Do the federal, state and local governments let the losers opt out of paying taxes and obeying the laws becasue they don’t like the elected representatives that won — no!
For instance, I never voted for Ronald Reagan for President and I never voted for the Bush family, but I was stuck with those idiots for 20 years and look at the national debt and wars we got from those three GOP presidents.
The national president of the AFT and NEA are not the only teachers’ union presidents. Every school district that has a teachers’ unions has a president voted in by the teacher members in that district. For the two major national unions, there are elections held in each state where those unions have local chapters and each state has a labor union president.
At the local level where a community based, democratic, transparent, non profit school district has a teachers’ union, members vote for more than just their local chapter president. When NEA, CTA wanted to raise and spend money for political ads to support a specific candidate, or issue, we voted and the majority vote decided if the money was taken from out of our checks and spent or not.
Traditional community based public school districts have elected school boards and in ever4y public school district where teachers belong to a teachers’ union, the teachers vote for more than just their president. Every school has elected representatives taht attend local union meetings to discuss issues and vote on them. Those elected school reps report back to the teachers at their school and there is more talk and voting to decide what the majority wants to do.
It’s to bad that the minority that lost out during those elections doesn’t like the results, but that is the way a democracy works just like all those voters that didn’t vote for the other candidate that won an elected office now has someone they don’t agree with.
If we get rid of democratic labor unions jut because of the losers that don’t like what the union is doing, then one day we will have no one to speak for the majority of workers because there will be no labor unions.
You laugh and disparage democratic labor unions and that means, to me that you are supporting dictators. I don’t laugh. I get angry at minions like you that supports the autocrats and their cooperate states that are doing all they can to subvert the democratic process and destroy the labor unions that stand for the interests of workers.
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Having seen the effect unions have on businesses (I don’t care if the business goes bankrupt, I have my rights…”) , and knowing that unions do not listen to a number of their members when it gets to his to use political contributions, and knowing that some states have a union lock on employment, no, unions are not democratic institutions.
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Rudy,
Most democracies protect the right of workers to bargain collectively.
Labor unions are part of democracy.
Dictatorships prohibit free labor unions.
There were none in the USSR and none in Red China.
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Revolution allows the oppressed become the oppressors…”
When a state like Illinois for example has a work environment which allows no choice as to whether or not I want to be a union member, democracy has become a dictatorship.
I work in a “right to work” state. That is saying something about the lack of democracy in unions.
A previous governor (a democrat, who was voted in with a lot of union support) made decisions that caused a loss of almost $1000 per student. And still the teachers union demanded an 8% raise. In what reality does that make sense?
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Yes, labor unions are democratic organizations. You have your opinion and it is wrong, totally wrong. One person called Rudy with one personal opinion does not make an opinion a global fact.
Democratic organizations cannot please every member. Just because you are allegedly a jerk, sorry – ignorant, biased jerk – doesn’t mean the labor union you have experience with wasn’t doing what it had to do for the majority of its members. And there is always the possibility you just landed in that specific local union when its leadership was corrupt.
When Teddy Roosevelt supported the existence of labor unions even after corruption was discoverer; he said the labor unions still had an important roll to play because without them no one stands for the interest of the workers. He also pointed out that corruption exists in every sector. Read “The Bully Pulpit” to erase some of that biased ignorance of yours.
All human organization institutions/organization are susceptible to fraud/corruption from the Church, to non profits, to private sector, to goverment and labor unions. But labor union corruption /fraud is not an excuse to get rid of all the labor unions while letting all the corporations and politicians, for instance, that brought the world the 2007-08 global financial crises to walk away with the billions while trillions were lost and tens of millions around the world lost jobs and lost homes.
What you support is a double standard. You blame Hillary for doing the same thing men in politics do but do not blame all the men who did the same thing. You blame labor unions for what goes on in the public and private sectors but ignore that the same thing goes on in every sector.
In China this is understood but the corrupt leaders are still expected to do a competent job in their leadership post. And if the corrupt leaders mess up causing loss of life and the people find out, then the fall is hard and often ends with a bullet to the back of the head if the fraudster doesn’t take his own life. In the U.S. most if not all of the top while collar criminals seldom end up in court and almost never got to prison.
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Wow. A jerk?
Interesting.
Rather than recognizing that I’m definitely not the only one who questions unions, you start calling names.
The fact that the unions are losing members should give you pause to think.
And yes, things can go wrong everywhere, no matter what group you talk about. I’m very much aware of that.
Not sure how I measure Clinton with two measures. Made very clear that I have my own set of problems with the Republican candidate.
Also made it clear that money causes lots of problems in politics.
What bothers me is that, as a Republican, I recognize the wrongs on both sides, But it seems that you, from the sounds of a Democrat, cannot have the same critical view of your side.
Trump should never have made it this far. I fully recognize that the Reoublican party will pay the price for this. I have communicated my thoughts with local, state and national leadership groups.
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Why did I call you a name? When it’s a rock, call it a rock. Unions have been the victims of propaganda campaigns for decades – the same thing the billionaire oligarchs are doing to the prisons and public schools.
For instance,
The Next Phase of the Koch Brothers’ War on Unions
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/22/the-next-phase-of-the-koch-brothers-war-on-unions.html
The Rise and Fall of Labor Unions in the U.S.
http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/history_of_labor_unions.html
Here’s Walmart’s Internal Guide To Fighting Unions and Monitoring Workers.
https://thinkprogress.org/heres-walmart-s-internal-guide-to-fighting-unions-and-monitoring-workers-1a179e7ac960#.55d68u3n9
In addition, I’m not a registered Democrat or Republican. I belong to the majority of registered voters who are independent of both parties.
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So everyone who disagrees with is a jerk?
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That depends on the jerk.
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Billionaires are not “democratic institutions” under any reasonable definition. But corporations are, under the definition you appear to be using for unions. Corporations represent the interests of their members, the shareholders, to whom the corporation’s officers are accountable, and who vote issues of major importance.
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Bill and Belinda gates foundation gave more than 25,000,000
Bit more than the 478000
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FLERP!
“Corporations represent the interests of their members, the shareholders”
I think a critique of the modern American corporation would dispel that myth.
Monks even discusses education.
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What type of pressure can foreign lenders put on Trump should he win the Presidency? How could that affect our nation’s foreign policy?
Could they blackmail the President?
Just wondering…
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I believe that at the very least that situation would be an unprecedented and massive conflict of interest.
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None. These funds are related to his business – which will not be under his control as president.
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But what about the family? And what about the fact that he will return to his empire afterwards? It remains connected to him, does it not?
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Thank you Akademos for your response to Rudy’s comment. I’d also add that since everyone fully understands he could only serve eight years the pressure foreign bankers and lenders could assert would still be considerable.
It’s naive to think otherwise, IMO.
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Naive to think otherwise… Hm. I guess you would draw the same conclusion then about the clintons, right?
Or are you using different criteria for that one?
It’s like the discussion about special interest, and big backers. Koch is evil, Soros is good. Chamber of commerce is evil, unions are good.
Trump being painted as the evil billionaire, but Clinton the one who really understands the poor.
From an objective point of view, ANY system that is heavily dependent on financial contributions is suspect.
European system would be a good learning experience. Political party pays for elections.
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Rudy,
Trump is an ignorant, crude bully who knows nothing other than what he sees on television. He is a con man, a fraud, a hoaxer. He is an embarrassment to our nation. Could I be more clear?
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I share that opinion – and I am a Republican.
Allie me to share my opinion of Hilary Clinton.
She’s lies. She breaks the law. She hides behind her staff.
She claims credit for things she has not not, the most ignored one of which is claiming to be responsible for children’s insurance – which was really accomplished by Ted Kennedy.
So, now that we have exchanged opinions, I guess we can agree that neither candidate is worth our vote.
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I do indeed draw the same conclusions about the Clintons, with the caveat that there is a world of difference between people who donate to you vs people you borrow money from.
I do expect politicians to release their tax returns. While not legally required, it is now a sensible tradition. Where I live both candidates for Congress have released their returns, and a quick search shows that both major candidates for US Senate have as well.
One other distinction I’d like to make. While Soros and the Koch brothers both use their wealth to help fund candidates, there is a world of difference between them. Soros’ contributions are dwarfed by the Koch brothers, and even more importantly, Soros hasn’t funded organizations like ALEC, whose policies and influence have substantially hurt the middle class, widened the income gap, and led to increasingly the privatization of government services at the expense of the commons.
Similar? Yeah, to a minor extent, but nowhere near the same in amount and effect.
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Like the article suggests and Trump said, he will not entirely divest himself of his business interests if president, as a blind trust or otherwise. The fact China’s bank holds much of his known debt is a concern. Plus who is he close with in these LLCs? Who could he be dealing with that may influence or even control the presidency? The Clinton Foundation is not squeaky clean, but accepting donations is a far cry from being under the thumb because you owe someone money or more.
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What do I care what he owes. I want to see his birth certificate. I heard from a reliable source that he was fathered by a Hybrid Baboon. Now it seems after threatening to sue that source, he did not proceed with the law suit .With such a weak case the lawyer probably wanted flat fee payment up front, Trump is used to Pro Bono services being that he usually goes bankrupt before payment. So the absence of legal action must mean the source is correct . Thank you Bill Maher for this needed public service.
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Could it all be a house of cards for Trump? Just in time for hurricane season?
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Not quite sure why there is such an insistence on publishing tax information.
There is no constitutional basis.
There is no legal basis.
It’s a voluntary action.
I disagree with trumps argument for not doing this. All he has to say is “no.” And that’s it.
What was learned from Clinton? Their own foundation was the biggest recipient from their charitable donations.
Really???
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Warren Buffett’s made the case for Trump to put up some evidence, via his tax returns, or shut up. Based on earlier years, Trump likely paid little or no federal taxes. I’m waiting for proof to the contrary.
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Why does it matter? For ANY candidate?
No one else running for office is expected to publish such documents.
I’m not interested in their tax information. I am looking at how they keep the promises made while campaigning.
I become interested in finances when I hear people who are worth millions pretend to speak for those of us who barely make a living.
When 8 out of 10 of the richest people in congress are democrats, why should I believe their interest in my well being? Those same 8 speak loudly against others who are rich but happen to be republicans. Do you realize that the clintons are part of the 1/10 of 1%?
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Rudy, where do you get your information – 8 out of 10 of the richest members of Congress are Democrats?
1. Rep. Darrell Issa R-CA – Net Worth $256.65 million
2. Rep. Michael McCaul R-Tx – Net Worth $107.61 million
3. Rep. John Delaney D0Md – Net Worth $91.68 million
4. Sen. Mark Warner D-VA – Net Worth $90.85 million
5. Rep. Jared Polis D-Coo – Net Worth $90.11 million
6. Rep. Dave Trott R-Mich – Net Worth $73.52 million
7. Sen. Richard Blumenthal D-Conn – Net Worth $66.99 million
8. Sen. Dianne Feinstein D-Calif – Net Worth $43.72 million
9. Rep. Vern Buchanan R-Fla – Net Worth $49.86 million
10. Rep. Diane Black R-Tenn. – Net Worth $45.96 million
http://media.cq.com/50Richest/
How do you get 8 out of to of the richest members of Congress are Democrats when five of the richest members of the top ten are Republicans?
In addition, why not mention members of Congress who are in debt?
Of the ten poorest members of Congress, 6 are Democrats and only 4 are Republicans.
http://moneynation.com/the-net-worth-of-congress/
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The President is the most powerful person in the world. Seeing a candidate’s tax returns is a very reasonable request. Think of it as the highest security clearance in the country.
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I’m sorry, but seeing someone’s tax return as the highest security clearance??
nixon was the first candidate to do this. Need I say, “Watergate?”
Why not the Speaker of the House? Secretary of State? Finance?
And what about the people appointed by Obama who were behind in their taxes? Or those who hired illegal immigrants?
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Rudy,
When I was appointed Assistant Secretary of Education for Research in 1991, I was required to make a full disclosure of my assets, income, stocks, and debts, which was reviewed by the Senate committee and Education Department Inspector General before I was confirmed.
Should a candidate for president do less?
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Did you make your tax returns open to that committee or the public?
Trump DID file his disclosure papers. Granted, they are complicated – but as complete as the requirements asked for.
I am much more worried about his statements re miniruties, immigrants both legal and illegal, international agreements like NATO and such than I am about his tax return.
His tax return won’t be the basis for his political actions.
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Rudy
What information should we know about a person running for office.
If we are not entitled to know the details of his or her economic interests, which a tax return tells us . Then what is it we are entitled to know? Should we know if he or she has any criminal record. After all he by not being in jail would have paid his debt to Society. If arrested but not convicted are we entitled to know that he has been arrested having never been convicted of a crime?
Which brings me to another point. I hate bringing this one up. If one is investigated of suspicion of committing a crime, but there is insufficient evidence of a crime being committed. Should we even know that an investigation was conducted, trial by public innuendo.
Even as a Public office holder, that crime would have been a a private offense.
Yes we have no one to blame for that but Republicrats. Never having the faith of their own convictions, truly having none. They seek to justify their existence by appointing Republican operatives to high positions or pursuing or signing Republican dogma. They call it reaching across the isle,triangulating,piratical progressiveness, knowing how to get things done. Of course that open hand is always greeted with a yard stick after all concessions have been enacted. Then they wonder “why the people choose the real deal every time”. ( does that have to be attributed)
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Who are you, Rudy schellekens? A parrot for Trump? Teacher? Corrupted Lawyer? Schmuck Journalist?
Please read and re-read what you wrote.
All people, who want to run public service with power to corrupt national security and national economy, must show their tax return prior their election, and after their finished term.
The differences in all of their tax returns in each year in the office MUST have the proper reason.
All dark money will CORRELATE to all scandal and intentional disruption in American DOMESTIC and FOREIGN POLICIES.
Being a reader in this website, I have little acquaintance with the term “FOLLOW THE MONEY.”
Please cultivate your thinking that you owe nothing from people who freely offer or donate gifts/money to you, BUT you MUST REPAY any debt that you OWE to mafia, banks, or underworld BOSSES.
If you do not repay, you and your family members will be punished. Let’s watch more documentaries about how the penalty will be like from banks, mafia, and underworld BOSSES. Back2basic.
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I think the problem with slamming Trump for this is that our current campaign finance system operates on the principle that money doesn’t matter- donations to politicians don’t influence politicians. That’s what we’re told. There is no conflict unless there’s a direct quid pro quo – bags of cash exchanged openly for specific policy.
So if politicians can make independent decisions while taking in hundreds of millions of dollars from donors with no conflict of interest, why can’t Trump make independent decisions while in hock to all these people?
I guess there’s a distinction because his personal finances could be affected but that line is so blurry as to be nonexistent. When they promote specific policies and then go thru the revolving door and make big bucks they’re essentially doing the same thing.
What’s a “conflict of interest”? Does that concept even exist anymore? The bar is so low anyone can meet it.
I think Trump would be a terrible President and I won’t vote for him, but our political system is such a glass house on money buying influence that I don’t think this stone will matter.
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You are right,Chiara. I think the point of the article is not to focus on who owns him but to question his claim that he is a successful businessman. He commands an empire of debt.
Frankly, even if he were a successful businessman, I would oppose him because of his lack of character and his contempt for others. Rude, snarling, crude, mean.
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Can’t Trump just say “I would have made X decision anyway, because I think it’s a good decision, and any personal benefit was not considered”?
That’s essentially what politicians say about donations and revolving door jobs, right?
They say the money doesn’t influence decisions, that they would have supported X, Y, and Z anyway. Clinton herself says this. They all do.
It’s not that Trump didn’t cross a line- it’s that there’s no line to cross anymore. Did Eric Cantor support financial sector deregulation because he got millions in campaign donations while in office and a multi-million dollar job in that sector after he lost, OR did he support finance sector deregulation out of pure-as-the-driven-snow ideology?
I can’t stand Trump- I actually think he has ZERO redeeming qualities- I think he was handed everything he has and he lacks character – but the whole idea of “conflicts” or “ethics” in government is so corroded there’s not much left to get outraged about.
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The only point I take from Trump’s secretive blustering is that while the pubic is set to wondering if he is a successful businessman, he noisily obscures the fact that he is simply a very successful flim-flam artist.
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Even if DJT’s tax returns are squeaky clean, would one change his/her voting choice? DJT thinks Japan & South Korea should get nuclear weapons; impulsively tosses out one-liners; envisions a border wall when a 19-year-old scales to 21st floor of his tower. His four bankruptcies affected NJ and PA small business owners, contractors.
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I want as many facts as possible to make an informed decision on any major purchase. Who I will vote for this November IS a major purchase.
What a tangled web Trump weaves…
Think
I’ll
stay
clear! 🕷
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I’m not sure what many of the comments here have to do with the topic here. There is so much evidence in this thread that supports the idea that many people are getting their info about Trump and his positions and businesses from the mainstream media who have a vested and recently proven interest in supporting Hillary. As educators we know we should get first person info before repeating untruths that create an animosity toward an individual who as yet has had nothing to do with the state of our schools and achievement especially in the inner city.
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Lou,
I get my information about Trump by watching and listening to him. He is an ignorant liar, a vulgar, crude narcissist. My 10-year-old grandson knows more about foreign policy and domestic policy than he does. His remarks about women, Mexicans, immigrants, Myslims, and almost everyone else betray bias, bigotry, and detachment from reality.
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Trump’s ability to put forth and endless amount of cashola to employ round the click, full time attorneys – capable of creating new and continuous loopholes – Rather than, Trump being a transparent – honest – businessman, speaks volumes. The many business partners, financial institutions, and questionable unnamed LLC’s are what can be considered global illusionists. If Trump was someone forthright and transparent, it’d be an entire different game here. Everything about this slime ball equals con-man gone wild. Grow the F— up america. He cares only for his placement in a profit based game of international and unrequiting greed.
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