Whitney Tilson received many comments on our dialogue. Many were positive. Others were not.
Here is a comment he received from a teacher who is disgusted with the attacks on the profession. She plans to leave. I showed her comment to a veteran teacher in NYC, who found them offensive to teachers like him who make a career of teaching. What he took from her comment was, “what does that make me? Lazy? Incompetent? Uncreative?”
I hope Whitney and his readers and fellow reformers learn from her comment. She is their ideal teacher, an Ivy League graduate, the “best and the brightest.” When even their favorites say “Enough is enough,” they should listen. The reform attacks on teachers–the test-based evaluations, the paperwork, the BS rubrics, the data-driven analytics, the litigious efforts to eliminate all job protections– are crippling teacher recruitment and retention.
She wrote to Tilson’s blog:
“So glad that you opened dialogue with her and acknowledged the nuances of the union challenge.
“You powerful rich people who have so much say over our daily lives scare the crap out of us teachers who have so little say over our own lives. =)
“It’s nice to hear you sound a bit more nuanced and respectful in your language.
“As a teacher who will probably quit soon, I just would add that the harder we make teaching and the more disrespectful we are to teachers, the more we lower the bar for what standard we hold teachers to. If ed reformers’ language about teachers and ideas about teachers continue to make more people like me quit (I’m a Yale grad, and I know of at least 6 Stanford grads and one other Yale grad who are all leaving the classroom at the end of this year), the only people who stay will be people who have little ambition, don’t really care, aren’t very creative, and don’t mind the constant indignities or the pervasive denial throughout the whole system. No offense, but you’re not going to make awesome teachers out of them. You need us.
“And this is an indictment of the WHOLE system, not public, not charter. Because let’s be honest: the public v. charter debate is just a giant distraction from the fact that we have a segregated school system and no one is doing anything about it. The only reason we have charter schools is because white people are so relieved they don’t have to integrate their kids with the poor kids of color… what white person wouldn’t support charter? It’s separate but equal! (Please forgive the sarcasm. But no one seems to be talking about the real issue any more).
Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXX
“A disillusioned, intelligent, innovative, caring, competent, and excellent urban public school teacher who is not going to last much longer”

But there are people who not only talk about it ,
Do you know Lenny Isenberg? I have followed his site Perdaily.com since he put it up nine years ago, when he blew the whistle on social promotion in LAUSD and continued to show the corruption that takes out these children.
http://www.perdaily.com/2016/04/demonstrably-inferior-public-education-at-lausd-will-not-be-rectified-by-edict.html
http://www.perdaily.com/2014/07/social-promotion–lausds-prime-mover-for-continued-and-predictable-student-failure–do-they-really-w.html
he put his career on the line
http://www.perdaily.com/2010/02/yesterday-i-was-removed-from-class-in-handcuffs.html
This one is really interesting
http://www.perdaily.com/2015/09/racism-cant-function-without-minority-5th-column.
htmlhttp://www.perdaily.com/2013/11/lausd-gives-me-a-chance-to-be-a-hero-for-student-teachers-and-families.html
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Ouch! Think she hit the nail on the head.
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Ouch, I think she drove that nail right into her smug visage! Sounds like she’s so full of herself she’d fill up my septic tank. And then I’d have to pay $$$ to get the tank cleaned out.
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>the only people who stay will be people who have little ambition, don’t really care, aren’t very creative, and don’t mind the constant indignities or the pervasive denial throughout the whole system.
Or people who get into teaching for altruistic reasons and then feel trapped once they realize the depth of the problems. Depending on your age, savings, family circumstances, and other factors, it is not always easy to switch careers.
I’ve known a few teachers who were ready to leave the profession but stayed on because either they or their spouse had a serious medical condition and could not afford a gap in benefits.
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This debacle began in the nineties. You are seeing the end result of taking us out… the total destruction of a NATIONAL INSTITUTION that “promotes the common good” by the simple expediency of removing and reviling the AUTHENTIC PROFESSIONALS.
http://www.perdaily.com/2011/01/lausd-et-al-a-national-scandal-of-enormous-proportions-by-susan-lee-schwartz-part-1.html
Take the doctors out of th hospital, and put the business office in charge of hiring, and you will get qualified medics who do great jobs in an ambulance, but lack the education and experience to treat an cure illness.
Take the experienced attorneys out of the law firm….
Pedagogy is a profession. The practice demands no merely educated teachers who love kids and learning, but are EDUCATED in the ways that the human brain actually acquires SKILLS… LIKE CRITICAL ANALYSIS… (I.E. THINKING).
Knowing what authentic learning actually looks like, was the center of THE REAL NATIONAL STANDARDS which I talk about in a comment above.
AUTHENTIC and GENUINE were words the Pew researchers used from day one, when the talked about WHAT LEARNING LOOKS LIKE. WLLL.
Parents and talking heads can be fooled into buying magic elixirs, http://www.opednews.com/articles/Magic-Elixir-No-Evidence-by-Susan-Lee-Schwartz-130312-433.html
from sake -oil salesman, (like Cami Anderson) but in the end , the truth cannot be ignored– the Newark schools have failed pathetic as she funneled all the money into charter schools that ‘looked ‘ oh so good’ but did nada, nothing!
Chareltans and Liars and mendacity rules.
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Can us mere state university mortals who worked through college without scholarships or glimpses of ivy on hallowed walls, dare touch this teacher’s robes?
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“(I’m a Yale grad, and I know of at least 6 Stanford grads and one other Yale grad who are all leaving the classroom at the end of this year)”
Some people really love to find ways to tell you where they went to college.
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Only if you kneel down and say 50 Hail Yalies first.
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look on the bright side, MathVale
You didn’t have to deal with poison Ivy for 4 years.
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FLERP! It took me years of schooling and supporting the cause of higher education with my pocketbook to learn that the smartest people in the work can sometimes barely make it though high school. We were reminiscing the other day about a classmate we were sure would either be in jail or a billionaire. I believe he spends most of his time in an Italian villa reached by private jet.
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Being “smart” is like being “charming.” Ultimately, it wears out its welcome. For 99.9% of us, what matters isn’t whether you’re smart, but whether you can do the thing that the job requires and get it done on time.
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And it helps to know people.
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FLERP, “Some people really love to find ways to tell you where they went to college.”
I think in this case, the teacher just wanted to emphasize that getting a degree from these institutions couldn’t save her from misery.
She is bitter, no doubt, and would write differently, with less accusations, a year from now.
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Yes, I play a little internal game with myself to see how long I have to wait for an Ivy League grad to announce their provenance.
New records are set all the time, with Harvard and Yale consistently leapfrogging each other in producing people who just can’t wait to inform me of their superiority, er, I mean, “merit.”
Do the schools give special classes on this, Lord-It-Over-the-Loser-Proles workshops for the Best and Brightest?
How fortunate we dwellers-in-the-mud are to have such talent point out our deficiencies while they have their cup of coffee in the classroom.
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Funny. I find in the Midwest a preoccupation with what Big Ten school you attended. I will agree that there are some Ivy Leaguers who are mighty impressed with themselves. I tend to think that most are probably like Diane (Wellesley, the women’s equivalent) who mention their schools only when relevant. After all, what was a Texas girl doing going to Wellesley?! 🙂
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Reformers: stop talking about charters, et. al. Start talking about how to improve working conditions for teachers. Top of my wish list: more prep time, like they have in other countries.
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Here is an Alert:
THE REAL NATIONAL STANDARDS RESEARCH BY PEW with the Harvard thesis: The The Eight Principles of LEARNING,
Click to access polv3_3.pdf
Set four– that is 4— PRINCIPLES that must be fulfilled by the ADMINISTRATION.
Click to access challengestandards.pdf
It is their task to:
1- Ensure and provide for a safe, secure & healthy site.
2- Support the classroom practitioner by providing necessary materials and technology
3- Ensure and provide a school organization and staff that supports the needs of the professional in the classroom.
4- Ensure that the staff that is hired, meets the state standards, and supervise and support them.
Instead, the administrators hire poor candidates while harassing the experienced teachers out of their jobs, and not only do not support the PROFESSIONAL PRACTICE of the experts, they actively undermine instruction by organizing huge class size, and few supporting materials or staff, failing to meet the standards, while reviling the professional.
THEN if the administrative corruption and incompetence was not enough, the union looks the other way, because THIS HAPPENED TO OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND TEACHERS IN THE NINETIES… long before VAM and the NCLB debacle or the common core crap was put into place to PUSH REAL TEACHERS out of the INSTITUTION that makes democracy possible.
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I can completely understand the frustration that this soon-to-be-not-teacher is feeling. It is very difficult to be a teacher nowadays. Everyone thinks they know something about education because they went to school themselves yet few actually understand the theory and politics involved in education. Most of the media coverage is demoralizing, and, within school systems, there are many issues that are hard to solve well when the pile of issues just keeps getting deeper and deeper thanks to the “reformers.”
That said, this comment reeks of snobbery and judgment. I do not view a degree from Yale, Stanford or any Ivy League as an automatic stamp of brilliance. I have known some wonderful people who attended Harvard, although I have known far more less-than-wonderful people who attended Harvard. The university that one attends does not guarantee anything. Prestige is merely that — prestige.
Furthermore, there are many, many reasons why a teacher chooses to leave or stay in teaching. One cannot make the assumption that “the best are leaving” and only the subpar are left behind. This is simply not true, and it is insulting. There are good teachers and bad teachers everywhere, just as there are good doctors and bad doctors in every practice, good engineers and bad engineers, good billionaires and… oops, no, just bad billionaires. 😉
My point is that the writer should not assume that she is better than other teachers because she chooses to leave the profession. Yes, there is a depressing exodus of teachers from the field. I personally know enough teachers who are wonderful teachers but who aren’t able to find a full-time job for a variety of reasons that I could probably staff an entire school with them. However, there are also so many wonderful teachers who, for a variety of reasons, stay in teaching for years, and I am grateful for their tenacity.
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Thank you.
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Hee, hee. I went to Brooklyn College, down the road from James Madison HS where Bernie Sanders and I graduated.
I taught from 1963 until 1998, when my tenure, not my excellence
http://www.opednews.com/author/author40790.html, made me a target.
Unknown to me, the UFT supported any and all efforts by administration in NYC to throw most tenured teachers out, and that since the union represented THE LAW FOR TEACHERS, and were their ‘legal legs” I found myself facing this
http://www.perdaily.com/2011/01/lausd-et-al-a-national-scandal-of-enormous-proportions-by-susan-lee-schwartz-part-1.html
IT WAS THIS PROCESS — this simple tactic OF silencing the professional in the practice, the Only ONE who actually knows what LEARNING LOOKS LIKE in that room, for those kids, WHICH DEFORMED our INSTITUTION of public schools, even as Duncan and Gates and the EIC
https://greatschoolwars.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/eic-oct_11.pdf,
sang the ‘bad teacher’ song in the media WHICH THEY OWNED!
But, Laura, you and I are not he same page, nes pas?
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I find it interesting that everyone seems distracted by the fact she mentions where she went to school. Her entire reason for noting it is that, if the argument is that this kind of education prepares people to be better in a classroom…..it did nothing for her. If the argument is that the entire fault lies in the laps of teachers being ill-equipped and “inferior” then why are even “the best and brightest” leaving in disgust. This lady’s statement was not arrogant but rather, I applaud her for taking the side of her fellow educators to affirm what the rest of us already know, that the system is broken and the this lone issue of “fixing teachers” is a silly argument to mend what ails it.
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With all due respect to the other commenters, I took her remarks that way too.
😎
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Sorry, I do not suffer hubris and elitism well. Chalk it up to growing up where Rolling Rock was served at picnics, graduating any college was unheard of let alone Yale, and tin cans repaired mufflers. You have a valid point.
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Huh. I thought the argument was that if ed reformers don’t start giving teachers “like [her]” more respect, all the teachers with Yale and Stanford degrees will quit and the only teachers remaining will be lazy, stupid slobs with no self-respect.
“the harder we make teaching and the more disrespectful we are to teachers, the more we lower the bar for what standard we hold teachers to. If ed reformers’ language about teachers and ideas about teachers continue to make more people like me quit (I’m a Yale grad, and I know of at least 6 Stanford grads and one other Yale grad who are all leaving the classroom at the end of this year), the only people who stay will be people who have little ambition, don’t really care, aren’t very creative, and don’t mind the constant indignities or the pervasive denial throughout the whole system. No offense, but you’re not going to make awesome teachers out of them. You need us.”
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FLERP! Yes, you summarized well. I should have been more ambitiously creative in my response.
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I felt like she was preaching to the choir with the best brightest crap, and I felt it was a slap in the face of those teachers beneath her. I did.
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Mathvale
Yalies don’t repair mufflers.
They just buy a new car.
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Me three.
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I humbly remind all those commenting on this thread that posting online, whether one is succinct or verbose, can lead to phrasings and wordings that convey quite the opposite of what one intends.
I ask everyone to take into account that the angle from which the poster wrote can quite easily slide off—for good or ill—in many directions.
I don’t know if this is possible, but I would be interested in hearing from the poster herself and see what her reaction is to the comments on this thread.
Until such clarification, while I have my own POV [expressed above], I do not discount the opinions expressed by others whose contributions to this blog I value.
That’s the way I see it…
😎
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Unfortunately, the ‘best and brightest’ credential also places this person squarely in TFA (Teach For Awhile) territory, which appears to have a great track record of producing short-timers who want their ” I’ve done good” badge. The tone smacks a bit of that.
And perhaps having gone to an ivy league school means, not withstanding that intelligence and a good work-ethic weren’t essential, that this person was able to “do school well” with relative ease. In the real world of teaching, if you are lucky enough to teach the full range of humanity, doing school well is not often the case, especially as school expectations pile up to almost impossible heights. Ultimately, this piece reveals a lack of reflection about just how complex the act of teaching is and how and why people choose to stay or leave.
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This article was right on the mark! Our profession has been ruined. Have a restful evening everyone!
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Truly sad.
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Which mark?
The mark of the devil!
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To Mrs. Audish:
Immature, foolish and arrogant she has shown through her written expression I am glad that she exits the teaching profession. I could not help to envision her teaching style that is promoted in an exposed video in Eva’s school – yelling and humiliating student in front of all classmates.
I am disappointed at a promotion of young, bright, and rich Ph.D to become teacher, without reality = with the absence of knowledge in all aspects of young learners’ emotion, living-lifestyle, parental/religious/cultural background.
I am not that old yet, but I have worked through 40 years in Canada to be soon at the retirement age. I would conclude that there are no winners or losers in all professions. We are all on the same training place to reach out our ultimate contentment =inner peace. This seems to be easy said than done because of our own fear of the unknown.
The ultimate condition to be a human being is being considerate. Therefore, educators need to be beyond an average human being, or educators need to be very patient, understanding, compassionate and enduring with the unfortunate and the greedy looters/opportunists in education reform GANGS. Back2basic
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No dear, it’s teachers like you (and your Stanford buds) that will never become “awesome” in the classroom. According to the International Scale of Teacher Awesomeness, quitting the profession after a year or two technically disqualifies you .
It is a profession that requires a thick skin regarding outside influences and perceptions.
And a thick skin regarding the realities of children in large group settings. But the true beauty of it (undiscovered in your case) is that only you can relinquish your autonomy – no one can take it from you, Once you close your classroom door, you can be as “innovative, caring, competent, and excellent” as you want to be. Taking the path of least resistance seems so un-Ivy-like.
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Maybe it’s only because I am not a teacher or educator, and so my own ego was not on the line nor did I feel any urge to become defensive, BUT the way I read her remarks was that she probably only felt a need to speak in the only “currency” the reformers (& particularly TFA’ers) seem to understand — where one obtained their degree and/or how high one scored on particular tests.
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I perceived it the same way, not as an attack on teachers or myself.
That’s not to say the teacher isn’t arrogant. They may be. But there’s a greater point to be seen here.
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It’s nothing against her and I’m sure these are great schools but there is really something weird about this country’s insane focus on elite colleges.
There’s some profound disconnect when this whole Best and Brightest nonsense excludes 99.9% of people ESPECIALLY because we ‘re all currently pretending we “respect” skilled trades and “not everyone has to go to college”
No, we don’t. We don’t believe any of that, and we prove it every single day.
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“The only reason we have charter schools is because white people are so relieved they don’t have to integrate their kids with the poor kids of color… ”
I’m having a difficult time guessing in what urban area this Yale-educated teacher works. In New York City, charter school enrollment is 93% black and Latino and 80% FRPL-eligible, and most of the charters that have significant numbers of white and Asian children are among the best-integrated schools in the state.
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Tim,
I’m confused too. Most of the charters in this area are predominantly African American. I thought one of the main reasons for charters is $$$$$. It’s definitely not closing the achievement gap, and definitely not what this teacher said (at least in Detroit).
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“Most of the charters…” should really read the few charters as these integrated schools account for no more than a handful, if even that, of NYC charters.
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Beth, I think Tim meant most of the four charters with an integrated student body…..
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“the only people who stay will be people who have little ambition, don’t really care, aren’t very creative, and don’t mind the constant indignities or the pervasive denial throughout the whole system. No offense, but you’re not going to make awesome teachers out of them. You need us.”
This is what I would say to you. No offense, but you need awareness.
No offense disillusioned teacher, you’re more delusional than you are disillusioned. There are plenty of good teachers who have joined or remained in the profession. Perhaps they’re stuck due to retirement, love for the career, or whatever the reason. It’s not right to say “you need us” because you attended an Ivy League. This means absolutely nothing. A good teacher is someone with passion, can connect with and teach students, knows subject matter, and strives to improve their knowledge and practice. I can think of many ivy AND non-ivy grads that fit this, and I can think of many who can’t. Get off your high horse.
This elitism really irks me. Some of us were dealt a different hand of cards and rose up, attended public university, and did what we had to do. Some of us non-Yale grads became good (and bad) doctors, engineers, and teachers just as you Yale/Stanford grads did. To imply that the elite will leave the profession and “the rest” who stay, who are from non-ivy institutions, are lazy, lack ambition, aren’t creative, etc. is appalling.
I’ve met plenty of “Ivy League” grads that had little ambition (they skated through college because their families had connections), don’t really care, aren’t very creative, and aren’t necessarily more intelligent than my state institution cohorts.
“…and don’t mind the constant indignities”. Who said good teachers mind this? Are you serious? Sometimes when you need a paycheck, you do what you have to do until you can do something more. Sometimes when you’re in a career for 20 years, it’s better to just put the time in and “deal with indignities” until a pension can be collected. Why don’t you spend some time and think before you make offensive comments. Yale taught you to think, right?
This teacher sounds extremely young, misinformed due to privilege, and like a brainwashed TFA. Your statements due to your elitism and ignorance, “disillusioned teacher”, are offensive.
At the end of the day, the paper from Yale you get is fine. Now you have credentials and bragging rights, but the rest lies on you. Going to Yale doesn’t mean you’re “better” than the rest. Grow up and get informed.
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Another indignant pedant. Now that she’s been thoroughly defeated by a very difficult job, she’s decided that it’s the fault of everyone else and the job itself. Those “left behind,” who she says are lazy and do not care, are the ones who have been DOING THE JOB since long before she came.
The constant disparaging of teachers across party lines and throughout the media is the single most disgusting facet of the job. Only in the new world of ed reform can someone incapable of fulfilling her job responsibilities leave with a parting shot at her former colleagues, accusing THEM of being no good at the job.
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So, we are all warm and fuzzy for the teacher who confesses they can’t take much more abuse, and we sympathize with those who have decided they have to leave the profession for their own health, but we jump on the teacher who points out she is a poster child for the deformers ideal teacher, the best and the brightest,” and is leaving along with several others she knows with similar credentials, because of their toxic mantra?
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“. . . the only people who stay will be people who have little ambition, don’t really care, aren’t very creative, and don’t mind the constant indignities or the pervasive denial throughout the whole system. No offense, but you’re not going to make awesome teachers out of them. You need us [Ivy League grads].”
Hard to be warm and fuzzy when you are being insulted by someone who couldn’t cut it after a year or two.
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‘ “You powerful rich people who have so much say over our daily lives scare the crap out of us teachers who have so little say over our own lives.’
That statement really doesn’t sound like someone who is overly impressed with herself.
‘ “You need us [Ivy League grads].” ‘
That’s where we read it differently. I don’t think she is talking just about Ivy Leaguers. I think she is talking about all talented, creative teachers. I suppose it is possible that she is young enough or arrogant enough to think that the only good teachers come from an Ivy League school. If she is, her fellow teachers must be hoping that she quits. She would be insufferable to work with.
All of that aside, it is obvious that good teachers are being driven out of teaching and fewer people are considering becoming teachers.
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…and someone seriously misinformed and high on her horse.
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It would be a completely different story if she said “you need us [caring, passionate, content/pedagogy educated, career-focused educators]”.
Then all of us good teachers would have been grouped together, and not separated by this elitism mentality of “I’m better because I went here BS”.
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I agree, 2old2teach.
When she said “us,” I didn’t perceive her to mean “Yale grads.” She meant “good educators.”
As usual, someone correct me if I’m wrong.
I don’t quite understand the overwhelming reaction of distaste for this post.
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“I don’t quite understand the overwhelming reaction of distaste for this post.”
Me neither. I understand where the remark may come from, but conversely, Harvard grads can be great teachers and, most importantly, they can share all educators’ current misery.
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Another elitist dilettante without sense or gumption.
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This teacher is young, inexperienced, insightful, had a sheltered background, wants to do well, naive, etc., etc., etc.. She is insightful about what she is experienced with and boisterously ignorant about what she is not experienced with. Nothing wrong with that, she wanted to teach. Diane, you were dead I when you id’d her as one the reformers should stop and learn from. They won’t though, the money blinds them.
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Regardless of where this teacher attended college, she is right about one thing. If we want our future teachers to be bright and creative, we better quit driving them out of our vocation, profession, or whatever you want to call it. If you cannot pay for excellence, you have to buy it with the other thing people desire, the ability to make a difference and independence to look for ways to make that so.
There have been some great young kids that have come into the profession in the last ten years. Many who might have stayed some years ago are gone. Whether the bearer of this message is elitist or humble, it is the truth.
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“Yale for America”
If all the Yalies quit
Then all you’ll have is &%!t
The Best will leave
You best believe
And losers will be it!
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We don’t want Yale, Bush, we don’t want Harvard, Obama, America’s next president should come with a non-elitist pedigree from Everest College or University of Phoenix.
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I recommend Evergreen State College in Washington
“The Harvard Crimson”
The Crimson of Harvard
Has pooled on the ground
Our country has suffered
In city and town
Disaster’s have followed
From Ivy League birth
The country has swallowed
The claim of their worth
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I do not understand the vitriol. It does not matter where thye went to school, it does matter what is being done to educators no matter where they went to school. Is it okay to mistreat teachers badly if they went to exclusive schools and do we only defend those who went to second or third tier schools (whatever that means). If a teacher invested the time to get an education and get the proper degrees and certifications, what does it matter where they went to school. Defend them and do what can be done to end the abuse. I went to a very little school in California, Cal State College (now University) Dominguez Hills. I loved going to school and getting educated. I am sure I got as much pleasure getting my degree as the frustrated teacher who wrote this blog got from hers, and that is part of what we want our students to see I would think. But none of us should be treated as we are being treated, especially not by other teachers facing the same kind of abuse. This reminds me a bit of the kind of abuse Mary Beard received for having the audacity to be 50 years old and being the on camera presenter for a BBC program on classical Rome.
Cordially,
J. D. Wilson, Jr.
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