Steven Singer asks the question that is the title of this post. It is not a simple matter. Many people fear that teachers with strong opinions will try to indoctrinate students with their views. Some think that teachers should have no opinions. After all, any strongly held views will annoy someone. One of the strongest argument for tenure (i.e., due process) is that teachers cannot teach if they may be fired capriciously because a parent or another teacher or the principal disagrees with their views.
The bottom line question is: should teachers have freedom of speech? Are there limits to that freedom? Singer argues yes, that teachers should have strong opinions, but yes, there are limits to that freedom. Students do not come to class to learn the teacher’s views, but to learn how to challenge the teacher’s views and to question the conventional wisdom. They are learning how to think for themselves, not to mouth whatever they are told.
Read on and see how Singer wrestles with these issues:
I am an opinionated person. I am also a public school teacher.
Those two things should not be mutually exclusive.
You should not have to give up the one to be able to do the other.
Teachers should not have to relinquish their judgment in order to run an effective classroom. In fact, you might expect good judgment to be a prerequisite to doing the job well.
Yet it seems many people disagree. They like their teachers tame, docile and opinion-free.
That’s just not me.
Now don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying teachers should instruct their students to think just like them. I’m not saying they should indoctrinate or unduly influence the young people in their care.
Just the opposite. They should spur their students to think for themselves. They should teach the young how to entertain an idea without immediately accepting it.
But they have no business telling students, “This is what I believe.” They have no business misusing their authority to make their views seem normative.
So I agree that teachers should be careful about expressing their opinions in the classroom. The problem comes after the school day is through.
When a teacher goes home, all bets are off. When a teacher is not in front of a class of impressionable children, he or she should be afforded the same rights and privileges of any other citizen – and that includes the right to form an opinion and express it publicly.
I am an educator. Hear me roar.
And yet, as a blogger, Steven receives responses from people who ask why he, a teacher, has such strong views! They imply, how dare you!
Diane Ravitch's blog 
In my district, teachers are strongly discouraged from holding opinions.
In our district, many Language Arts teachers are forced to follow “pre-scripted” materials. No thinking necessary….nor allowed.
and what district is that?
Denver Public Schools. Recently I was very pleased to see districts around Denver (Jefferson County and Douglas County) put out a movie about reform abuses (Education Inc.) and massively recall pro-reform school board members — but even as these wealthy suburbs were able to fight back, they made little to no mention of what was going on in our much poorer, and much more diverse inner-city district where invasive reform is the ONLY option on the table. Rich, dominant-culture parents know how to get organized and fight back, while poor, non-dominant-culture parents seldom have that luxury.
I could not teach today. In my seventh grade, I regularly chose a newspaper article to examine with the kids, and posed questions that required some serious analysis as to the veracity of the journalism not just the style. I would never look at election politics, but I certainly would look at articles about climate change., for example. I’d be in trouble.
My experience in two schools, one public, one private, was that there was a general tone (very conservative in my two cases) to which teachers were expected to conform but no sanctions, official or unofficial, were in place if one did not conform. I noticed right away in the public school that staff parties clearly signaled the tone by whose house it was held at, the crazies who drank liquor and swore a lot (my group) or the sober, proper people. In Arizona, the former are few. Oh, did I mention a division along political party lines? 🙂
I do hope that your group had more distinguishing features than the amount of alcohol they consumed and the level of vulgarity they enjoyed. 🙂 You make the more sober sides/proper people in Arizona seem like the better bet if one was interested in well reasoned discussions, and from what I have heard conservatives in Arizona are scary. Alcohol and colorful language do not sound like the best route to a meeting of the minds. How old are you?
I’m 74. My wife went through hell as a minority chosen to integrate the school systems here. The Right in AZ is in no mood nor in condition to have a thoughtful discussion (God is on their side, remember). While you are having a well reasoned discussion, they are reloading. But it’s been fun being a liberal here since the 50s, even if we have to lubricate ourselves a bit and engage in colorful language.
I have a feeling that your choices of release valves help to keep you relatively sane, and guessing from your age, you are not weaving down the road shouting curses at your neighbors. 🙂 I admire your fortitude.
I enjoyed this exchange!😁
Some good points, but I don’t understand or agree with this one:
“But they have no business telling students, “This is what I believe.””
Why not? Doesn’t this go against the rest of what you were saying? As long as there are qualifications that it is not necessarily the truth, the only truth or the whole truth, as you stated in the statement that immediately followed: “They have no business misusing their authority to make their views seem normative.”
There is nothing wrong, most of the time, with telling students what you believe. As long as you are implying in some way that it is your “belief,” and you are not compelling the students to accept it as their own.
I agree. That line leaped out at me too.
I also disagree with Singer on this point. My students ASK me where I stand on issues. What am I supposed to do? I tell them, “This is the gospel according to Threatened out West,” but I do sometimes tell them my opinion, because the kids really do want to know. I have not exactly been quiet about my utter disdain for Donald Trump, although I stay quiet on the rest of them.
Besides, we are teaching them what other people believe anyways, through math, literature, science, social studies, language…
Are we supposed to say, “this is what other people believe, but I won’t tell you what I believe?”
I’m not sure Steven Singer really meant what he said in this line. If so, I’d like to hear the reasoning.
I agree. I never tried to air my opinions or beliefs in the classroom, but when asked directly, I stated my opinion. I think learning involves hearing diverse perspectives and the individuals that have those opinions. Teaching should not be proselytizing.
I disagree with that line also. I’m retired, but when I taught we had a rule we followed: When it came to classroom behavior, grammar rules, grades, etc., I was the authority. When we discussed other issues, we were all in America and their opinions was as valid as mine.
I taught Language Arts, including speech, so we debated issues often, especially if they were issues about literature, current events, etc. I did this mostly with seniors and told them I was treating them the way I would with adults because they had to have their own opinions and stand up for them in a polite way.
i think part of a high school teacher’s job is to model freedom of speech and the proper way to use the freedom.
I join this chorus. There’s a difference between “This is what I (emphasis) believe; what do you believe–and why?” and “This is what I believe so you have to believe it, too” or “so this is the only (or right) answer.” The second is unacceptable; the first is an integral part of teaching.
It always amuses me when people accuse college teachers of trying to brainwash their kids. If the kids come to college with minds that they use, they will use them to think about what they hear, examine it, and challenge it on reasonable grounds if they don’t agree.
This is a tough subject but let me throw this out there. As a libertarian, I have certain inherent biases. If I were teaching civics or economics in high school, I would focus more on the teachings of Hayek or Friedman. I might assign the kids to use “Free to Choose” or “The Road to Serfdom” to analyze from an economics perspective.
Even if we critically analyzed it and I couched everything as “this is what I believe”, would all you “feel the bern” supporters be ok with that? You see, it’s not just having kids sing songs about Obama or write Muslim conversion phrases that can be considered indoctrination. It’s the content of what is discussed and taught.
Virginiasgp, I would simply not present one side of the story — “my” side — as the whole curriculum. You brought up politics, so I’ll give an example. If we were studying politics, I would not only present the ideas of Bernie Sanders. We would study what many presidents, founding fathers, and philosophers have said. We would study events from various perspectives. I would not fault students for coming to their own conclusions. I would not downgrade them, in any way, for thinking differently than me.
If asked personally who I support in the 2016 election cycle — during class — I may or may not indulge them with my opinion, and some of the reasons behind my opinion. I would not fault them if they disagree. I would make it clear that they do not have to agree with me.
If asked outside of class, I would be much more open about who I support and why. Yet I would still not fault someone for disagreeing.
I do not teach civics, but that is how I imagine I would.
On this blog, in my personal life, and in my own writings, I can be much more strongly opinionated. And yet, you still do not have to agree with me. If I believe someone else’s take on something is foolish and will cause harm to humanity, then I will speak strongly against it — but — they still have the right to disagree with me…
Let’s not forget that a civics high school teacher would not only be consulted about “civics.” They will be asked for their opinion and support on many other matters. Should they stay silent on all those things?
You cannot take the “values” out of education. But in your scenario, it sounds like you would be presenting one narrow side of the story more as truth, and possible as the only side of the story. I do not believe that is what a good teacher would do.
It makes me sad to see statements like “I could not teach today” in the comment section. I also disagree entirely with the idea that teachers have “No business telling students ‘This is what I believe'”.
I teach history in an urban public school. I am opinionated and my students know my opinions. We talk about current events and even more controversial we have very real conversations about historiography and political agendas in historical narratives. I also teach my students, and I say I, but I really mean my department, and my school, also teach my students to critically evaluate their sources. All of their sources. Including their teachers. If you teach kids how to think, you lesson the risk of accidentally teaching them what to think and you don’t need to be a robot in front of them. I don’t see the benefit of modeling apathy for kids by pretending to stifle opinion.
Of course, if you’re creating curriculum for almost any course, your opinion will be latently represented anyways. Every time I choose a primary source for my students to read I am choosing which narrative to expose them to and of course that is influenced by who I am and my experiences. I make sure to provide them with counter arguments, but it’s near impossible to eliminate personal bias. Again, why it’s essential to teach them evaluation skills so they can choose to do what they will with what I provide them.
I do not pretend do my students that I lack opinions or commitment for several reasons. First, I am highly visible, especially online, and students are likely to know what I think and want to know why. In a sense I am modeling for them the difference an individual can make by being active and vocal. I encourage them to explore their own thinking. I challenge it to help them be better able to express their ideas more persuasively and cogently. As I tell them and their parents, in the process I may create my own worst (politically speaking) nightmare, a powerful and persuasive advocate of a position I abhor. In which case I have done my job, which is to empower my students.
While there is no doubt of the tilt of my political and economic thinking, I ensure that if the opposing view is not expressed in a class discussion I either solicit it from a student I know has it, or I offer it myself.
Given how well known I am, how easy I am to find online, to pretend I did not have opinions would be to be dishonest with my students. I will try to get them to express what they think about an issue before I answer questions (if relevant) about my own thinking.
Over 20 years, that seems to have worked okay for me. When I can no longer feel free to operate that way, it will be time for me to stop teaching Social Studies.
“I will try to get them to express what they think about an issue before I answer questions (if relevant) about my own thinking.”
Same.
You sir, are a very lucky man who works in a time-warp. My curricula, which I talk about often here, and were I write http://www.opednews.com/author/author40790.html
was based on open dialogue between myself and my outdents. The letter-writing curriculum that I put into effect meant that the students and I talked about BIG IDEAS and Essential Questions (which my kids called the EQ). We looked for these ideas that powered the behavior of making throughout history. I worked with my humanities (i.e.social studies) teammate a young man to assist these kids in their learnings about early America and the revolution.
Conversation was the key, and I was trusted to bring a high level of knowledge to my class, as my degrees in English, Education and Theater, and the Arts ensured.
How could we talk about such powerful ideas without comparing what we see today, with what we are reading. Comparison and analysis, precede Hypothesis and predictions. A teacher must be able to examine ideas for kids to develop the crucial HABITS OF MIND, (forgive the capitals, there is no boldface here, and those words WERE the words of the researches from the LRDC, when I was the cohort for the standards research.)
Mindfulness TOOK EFFORT, but paying attention to the spoken word as my 13 year old kids thought about THINGS….was worth it, because the kids who were wide awake in class, who participated in ‘heated discussions’, went home and wrote the best stories.
Ken, I wonder what the bright young people who read Orwell’s ‘Animal Farm’ with me, are thinking about the ‘charter’ in America’s barn, and how far characters like Scalia were able to go — because the ignorant animals on the farm no longer remember what our own revolution achieved.
In my mind, I can hear them — the bright minds that I once helped to learn — and they are astounded by the mendacity demonstrated by men who wish to be President of our America.’ But he’s lying, Mrs S!” ‘they would complain.
My advice, Ken, is to watch your back… unless you have friends in high places. Don’t miss th writing on the wall.
I’ve learned to follow the dictates of polite conversation. I don’t discuss politics, religion, or my middle name.
Really. I tell my students I’ll answer almost any question about myself, but I won’t discuss my politics, my religion, or my middle name.
Quite frankly, my ninth graders become so focused on divining my middle name they never ask about the other two issues. On the last day of the year I open the doors to those three issues.
I teach earth science though, and both evolution and climate change are topics covered in my class. Since science offers not proof but evidence to support theories, that helps me answer any questions about my beliefs or opinions about those topics.
I’ve been challenged in class on both topics, and so far it’s worked.
My two cents…
It’s a tightrope to walk in some Districts. And if a teacher is working in a volatile District without the small protections offered by tenure, then s/he has to make a decision – do I say what I really WANT to say, or do I hold on to my job? It’s not fair – teachers shouldn’t have to give up First Amendment rights when they cross into the school – but often is the reality. Teachers influence students and one has to respect that fact.
I was fortunate to teach middle grades in a District that respected opinions and had a significantly strong Administration that supported the professionalism of its educators. Even in a state that has no tenure, I felt able to express them……AFTER my students had learned to examine their own beliefs based on evidence and facts instead of going with the current rumor or trend. There were some subjects where I felt my opinion on that issue was none of the students’ business and I would (politely) tell them that. I reinforced that each one of us is given free will to make our own decisions in life and part of growing up is to take on that responsibility.
Yes, I WAS vocal. But also aware of my power and influence on young developing brains. I found the balance.
“. . . teachers shouldn’t have to give up First Amendment rights when they cross into the school – but often is the reality. Teachers influence students and one has to respect that fact.”
I am the state!
What??? What’d you say? “I am the state!”. What kind of crack you been smokin?
But for all public school teachers, administrators, personnel it is true, “I am the state”.
We are what makes up “the state”.
And in that function “when they cross into the school” I must realize that my words cease being just my own and are now “the state’s words”.
Does that change how one views the role of the public school teacher?
As a PS teacher we must realize the difference between our own views and our views as viewed from the reference of being a state actor/voice. And yes, there are limits then to our abilities/rights as individual citizens when we cross that threshold of the school house door.
Would you wish for “the state” to indoctrinate/propagandize your young child in ways that are not consistent with the constitutional values that must guide us???
If one is truly an educator, he/she should be truly educated. My view: I believe an educator has the right to say “this is what I believe”. Many, most will probably disagree but by expressing an opinion as an opinion I do believe in the freedom of speech, for educators as well as the media, a media which in my opinion is VERY biased. Corporate controlled media promotes corporate agenda. THAT media is as much an educator as are public schools, perhaps in many respects more as their views are promoted to adults and the general population, a broad spectrum of society.
No. it is not right to indoctrinate students but is that not what the politicians who are imposing their views on tests on which students and faculty are evaluated are doing. In my view that is heresy to true education, Hitler nor any Fascist government could not have said it better. ” WE” tell people what is true. ” WE” decide what children and the general public are to believe. Teachers who express an opinion should have the right to counteract that propaganda in my view.
Yes, I know of many teachers who would abuse the privilege and some I wondered how they ever got through college, let alone teach in a school system such as we once had but is that any reason for not allowing the true educators, not just instructors who do indoctrinate students with government “truths” from expressing an opinion.
I abhor the political landscape which tells teachers what they must teach and which evaluates their performance on how well they “indoctrinate” their students.
Academic freedom is a prize element of collegiate teaching. In all honesty I think that in many respects I and others in public schools are just as capable and should have that same academic freedom as those collegiate professors some of who too are less capable than other professors. I worked very hard to find, examine, and teach the very best in literature, in academic achievement et al. In academic work my students were doing college work. I believe that my teaching was superior to what many college professors taught.
To reiterate, there are terrible “teachers” in public schools, as in any profession but just as one should never relinquish academic freedom at the university level, so should it not be relinquished in the public schools.
This is my view and one which MANY will strongly disagree, perhaps justly. You need not worry. I retired a quarter of a century ago so I will not abuse the minds of our children.
“Ed Detective, why is the yard stick meaningless? If we are asking students to write an essay or to find the answer to the volume of a pool (to demonstrate they understand calculus and rates of change), how is the meaningless?”
In short, it is meaningless because what you “measure” is 1) a value judgement 2) a quantified quality.
Sorry, posted to the wrong comment.
“Thus, by definition, you are incorrect in saying that the “stars” are only the ones who teach the high SES kids.”
I didn’t say that. I said the “stars” are the ones who don’t teach the NEEDIEST kids. Do you understand the difference?
“a. High SOL, high SGP – the “Stars”. Everybody thought these schools were great and they are (e.g. Fairfax).”
So the schools are great because of the scores, and the scores are great because of the schools. Would make sense if I didn’t think logically. It is not only a circular argument, but you beg the question by already assuming that high change in scores = good teacher/school. Your definition of a good teacher/school is one who gets high growth in test scores, when high growth in test scores doesn’t necessarily mean that the teacher or school is good — as many of us continue to point out in various ways.
“b. Low SOL, low SGP – the “Failing Schools”. Everybody thought these schools were awful and they are. These are the schools Obama/Duncan/King are most concerned about.”
Again, you define low/failing schools as poor test scores/test score growth, which is a major fallacy. As for Obama/Duncan/King, I couldn’t care less what they think on this issue, since they know less about education and our actual students than most of the people who comment on this blog.
“c. High SOL, low SGP – the “Underachievers”. Nearly everyone thinks these schools are great, but they really aren’t. They just have high scores because they have affluent students. My district falls in this box as does the district that our current Superintendent left two years ago (York County). Without the data, I can’t show our citizens they are being fooled. That’s why the district fights so hard against releasing it.”
Low SGP does not mean “underachievers,” or even low growth educationally or otherwise. It means low growth “in test scores” — again, an important distinction that seems to elude you. And contrary to your belief, there are ways to show if schools are doing well without using test score data. But these ways would involve actually going into the schools, looking around, talking to people, and knowing at least a little bit about education theory and practice.
“d. Low SOL, high SGP – the “Miracle Workers”. Nearly everyone thinks these schools are awful and they are wrong. These schools get great growth even though the final scores are not great. Without this VAM data, nobody will ever know what a great job these schools are doing.”
All those people are so wrong because the arbitrary formula says so. I don’t buy it. It is not only possible to raise test scores by doing bad things educationally and socially, it is how test scores are often raised in the real world. Once again, high growth “in test scores” does not mean high/good growth as people/minds.
“.3. But even within these districts, I can take the individual-level data and analyze how schools are doing at teaching low-SES students. If we filter the data for only low SOL scores, we can see which districts get great growth among the low SES students. Amazingly, the best district overall (Fairfax) also achieved among the highest growth for its low SES students as well. Btw, Fairfax has about 2x the % of FRL and ESL students as my district has. Thus, my district touts its scores relative to Fairfax even though it’s an unfair comparison.”
Your entire belief in this system is built on a faulty premise that some person’s formula indicating test score growth shows who is making the most growth educationally, socially, personally, etc.
“4. The MET study showed that the best teachers do not “teach to the test”. They inspire, get their kids more interested in class, and convey conceptual knowledge. But keep telling yourself everything in life is skewed against you.”
The best way to raise test scores is to teach directly to them. It is much easier to do this than to be an actual good educator. I am glad that education is a human system, not a mechanical one. If it was as simple and easy as raising test scores, I wouldn’t even be in the profession, because I prefer a challenge.
I don’t tell myself that “everything in life is skewed against me,” and I bet most of the educators who reject VAM/etc do not tell themselves that either. VAM/etc is not broken because of that reason, it is broken because it is built on a bad premise. It is deceitful, wrong, and ultimately an injustice that will hurt lives and careers, and ruin our view of schools and education itself.
Thanks so much for writing about my article, Diane. It’s nice that there is someone that values the opinions of classroom teachers. It seems some folks disagree with me about whether a teacher should express personal opinions in class. I see this is a sticky point. It depends on many things – for example the ages of the kids your teaching. The older and more mature the students, the more you can probably say. Every class is different and every teacher is different. But we have to be very careful. Many of our students look to us for the “right” answeres. It’s important we let them know that there are some things the truth of which they can only determine for themselves. I say a lot of things in class discussion but make it clear that what I’m saying may or may not be what I actually think. I’m usually just trying to get them to reexamine something or think about something in another way. When kids ask me what I think, I rarely give a straight answer. I usually turn it back to them. I’ll say it doesn’t matter what I think. What do you think?
This is – of course – just my opinion. You are free to disagree with me. I think it’s an even more important issue whether teachers are permitted to be a part of public discourse outside of the classroom. I think some people try to shut us up because of the stickiness of teachers opinions in the classroom. I’m just trying to say that being silent in school should not mean having to be silent out if it.
Steven, here is the conundrum. As teachers become the target of an open attack on the profession, those who are attacking have branded all teachers as self-interested. That way, they can continue in their efforts to ban collective bargaining, end due process, reduce pensions, and make teaching a job for temps, not a profession. Their demand for silence is a way to clear the field so that they alone are heard, not those who are teachers.
I agree with what Diane said in reply to your comment. Since public schools and public school teachers have so few political allies right now, I think that it is imperative that public school teachers become more involved in politics. This will require the expression of strong opinions. More public school teachers need to run for a variety of offices in their communities, states, and even for Congress.
“Too few political allies”?! Are you kidding me? The unions have bought and paid for so many state politicians it’s not even funny.
Virginia, In NY state, the Wall Street supporters of charters spent way more than the unions. They have way more. Their leaders are billionaires. Do you know any billionaire union members?
I do not know any billionaire but I do know of some leftist billionaires, namely George Soros and Tom Steyer who contribute tons to the unions.
Virginia, where is your evidence that Soros or Steyer gives money to unions? I have never heard or read that. I do know that the billionaire Koch brothers, the billionaire Walton family, the billionaire Bill Gates, the billionaire David Welch (Vergara case), the billionaire John Arnold, the billionaire Eli Broad, the NC multimillionaire Art Pope, and many others put millions into campaigns to strip teachers if due process and cripple their unions.
Boy, VIrginia, if my state’s teachers’ union has “bought and paid for” many legislators, the union should get its money back, because who is REALLY paying for legislators are the big businesses and the Koch Brothers and ALEC. Teachers are public enemy #1 to my state legislators. I do not doubt that this is the case in most state legislatures, too. How can you not see the evidence before your eyes? Teachers all over the country being fired for no reason at all. Funding for education backsliding significantly in at least 13 states. Charters proliferating, with their scandals not covered (or barely covered) in the media. State school boards filled with charter owners.
Threatened Out West, as you likely know, I am concluding my case against Virginia’s DOE to obtain SGP scores by teacher and school. After our last hearing in July-2015, the teacher unions ran to the legislators to get the law modified. Notice the vote on the bill was 98-0. How is that not protecting teacher unions? VDOE was prepared to comply with the judge’s order from Jan 9, 2015. But once the union got wind, they all intervened and asked for a rehearing (final hearing was held yesterday, Feb 19, 2016). The VDOE lawyer told me he knew things would get crazy “when the unions got involved”.
A charter school bill that would allow the voters to determine whether the state can authorize charters without local school board approval was defeated this past week in Virginia. That bill would not have allowed charters, just allowed the voters to decide. I’m not sure how you claim the unions have no power?
Virginia, the unions would have supported a bill to allow voters to determine whether the state can authorize charters without local school board approval. The position of the far-right ALEC is that voters should have no say at all, and that local control should be eviscerated. ALEC and friends are terrified of democracy.
virginia – what evidence do you have that unions support public education? Are you talking about the same unions (NEA and AFT) that support charter schools, Common Core, standardized testing, VAM, Bill Gates, etc.? If the NEA and AFT thought they were “buying” Hillary with their money and their endorsements, and if they thought Hillary would therefore support public education (actual public education, not charter “public” education), then they’ll be in for a rude awakening. Fortunately for Randi and Lily, I’m pretty sure they were thinking no such thing. Probably thinking more along the lines of who’s going to get what position in Hillary’s DoE.
Do you really believe this? See here and here and here and here. The NEA wants “grade span testing” recommended by Diane in which the kids are tested only once in grade school, once in middle school and once in high school. That means you can’t track yearly progress of any child. And that means you can’t generate accurate VAMs because the aggregate scores of students can’t discount their individual characteristics including score history.
It’s a nice political lie. We “support reasonable” testing but only if implemented in a way that makes it impossible to hold us accountable.
Virginia,
There is actually a quite easy way to track a child’s progress from year to year to show progress.
It’s called grades.
Grades that aren’t worth the paper they are printed on. Have you read this report from the Arkansas department of education?
Most states just give a wink wink that all grades are equal. This is why they call it standardized tests.
Virginia, move to Estonia or Poland.
I don’t like the cold. I hated my four years in Boston. Didn’t mind the educational environment, just hated the wind, accents, and all that snow. Don’t think Poland or Estonia would suit me. Maybe Australia or Singapore….
Virginia, you would be unhappy in Singapore or Australia. They don’t use SGP or VAM
I see others have caught to virginiasgp’s “metaphysical excuses” [his phrase, not mine].
Let me translated so as to bring his Rheephormish inanities, kicking and screaming, over to standard English:
“States and school districts that follow rheephorm guidelines just give a wink wink that all standardized tests are equal. They are in actuality one-size-fits-all hazing rituals designed to punish many and reward very few in order to maintain a social hierarchy where the advantaged are more advantaged and the disadvantaged are more disadvantaged by setting arbitrary pass/fail rates that are made to appear objective and scientific and unbiased.”
😎
OK. One more for the road and then I’ll quit, I promise. This has floated up into the stratosphere of political and social order. I would recommend for general understanding Francis Fukuyama’ 2 volumes, The Origin of Political Order & Political Order and Political Decay. For why our country is fragmented the way it is, Colin Woodard’s American Nations. All will become clear, I promise.
I always had strong opinions outside the classroom; inside the classroom, I tried to teach and get children to think and love learning, but my personal opinions don’t/didn’t belong in the classroom.
We agree on one thing, VirginiaSGP, that grades are worthless (though we probably have different reasons why). They are only generally predictive of who complied with instructions, and who will likely continue to do so in the future.
Grades are just as worthless as VAM and standardized test scores when it comes to offering insight on what students and teachers are actually teaching and learning, and how well.
vsgp,
“Grades that aren’t worth the paper they are printed on”.
Careful now or you might be seen as agreeing with me!
But let’s take that a step further. If the grades “aren’t worth the paper they are printed on” how can the “grades” of standardized testing be used for the evaluation/assessment of the teachers?
If by starting with crap, i.e., standardized test grades, how can one end up with anything other than crap, i.e., VAM and/or SGPs, that are used for the teacher evaluations you appear to so cherish?
I have to hand it to Duane Swacker for “keeping it real”! But be careful, sometimes telling it like it is ends up very badly.
Diane, we must be willing to stand up for our freedom of speech or else it will be taken from us. I filed this in federal court today against a Republican district attorney in my district for censoring comments on his public Facebook page. It’s an open and shut case but he simply refused to follow the law. The Democrat Chairman of the county board also blocked my comments for about a day until the county lawyer advised her against it and she realized she didn’t want to testify in federal court about violating the constitution.
Btw, if anybody else is interested in the various free speech case law, I am pretty conversant with it by now. I am not a lawyer and don’t give advice but I can point you to the best cases to defend your rights (as both employee in schools or activist). Schools boards have been trying to ban activists from speaking out lately based on a misreading of prior cases and are losing case after case (including $100K’s in fines) for trying to silence their critics. You can email me at freethatdata@gmail.com.
vsgp,
“I am not a lawyer. . . ”
That I understand but are you practicing to be one? As you did not attempt to answer my two questions, which to me were not obviously rhetorical, directed at you. You answered with all kinds of misdirection.
I’m not a lawyer either (although I turned my two ex’s from BSN’s into attorneys, just a function of living with me I guess) but even I can see through you not answering my questions. So let me try again:
If the grades “aren’t worth the paper they are printed on” how can the “grades” of standardized testing be validly used for the evaluation/assessment of the teachers?
If by starting with crap, i.e., standardized test grades, how can one end up with anything other than crap, i.e., VAM and/or SGPs, that are used for the teacher evaluations you appear to so cherish?
Duane, was a little busy this week. The subjective grades of the teachers are not worth the paper they are printed on. The objective grades of the standardized tests are useful in aggregate. You asked for validation of testing to curriculum to standards for CC. It has been provided. Does that answer your question?
Funny story about the hearing last Friday in Richmond with the VDOE and my district regarding releasing the SGP data with teacher names. My district was trying to claim that SGPs were used to evaluate teachers so, by Virginia law, teacher names must be confidential.
So I was questioning the chief of staff in my district on the stand. I thought he was a good guy when I first met him in January 2015 but my lawyer had told me he was a lying *****. She was right. In any case, we reviewed the district’s teacher evaluation guide on the stand and I asked:
1. When are principals supposed to notify the central administration of any teacher who could be rated ineffective for the current year according to your manual?
Answer: December. The “December list” comprises any teacher who get a bad rating.
2. When are actual evaluations due to the central office for teachers?
Answer: March
3. And when do students take SOLs?
Answer: (he didn’t want to give it so I had to help him out on this one) May
4. And when are SGPs calculated based on this SOL data
Answer: (again he appeared to have no clue in Richmond but he was quite able to describe how SGP data was available too late for actual use in numerous other forums – he seems to have a problem with perjury) October of the following year
So I told the court that if my district was actually using SGPs/SOLs to rate teachers, and thus make them confidential, I wanted to learn some of those ESP skills they used to evaluate teachers in March on tests that had yet to be taken!!!!
So many education officials are lying *****. It’s pretty disgusting. The only positive result is that at least they didn’t go into the military. I wouldn’t want my life to depend on one of their lies!!!!!!
Virginia, be sure to release to the public your performance ratings
Diane, the name of my Twitter account is Free That Data. I don’t think you have to worry about me releasing the data for people to draw their own conclusions. I will certainly release the names of the outstanding teachers across the state.
Btw, for those who want to conduct their own analysis of the data, I’ve already posted it online. It doesn’t have teacher names (the data I released doesn’t have teacher id’s), but you can look at school and district scores based on individual student-level records.
With those teacher id’s, we can not only see which teachers are stars, but after tying it to salary data, we can see if experience matters and education level.
Virginia,
If I were a teacher in your state, I would sue you for releasing my personnel file
Diane, I have two words for anybody thinking of suing me:
“Bring” and “It”
Do you not understand that is why I had to go back to court a second time to win my case? My district claimed the records were confidential but because the districts have not used the data, they cannot be confidential. I even filed a False Claims Act case in federal court alleging fraud by nearly every district in my state pursuant to the ESEA waivers. The judge was very interested in that.
Maybe you can get Aubrey, Linda, Jesse and the others to conduct analysis on our data. The more the merrier.
Oh, btw, I’ll post my closing arguments (due at the end of this week) online once I send them in. I was able to get the entire basis for the arguments discussed at the hearing. And I should get my $40K in costs awarded as well.
Virginia, I will not post any comments about VAM from you
You are obsessed
VIRGINIA, did you read my post here about liars. I posted the nY Times article
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/24/us/politics/bernie-sanders.html
on Bernie’s description of the lying media that twists truth these days, and I wrote a comment… which I re-posted here.
The liars own th media and thus they control what America knows about EVERYTHING. Finn is just another liar.
Well, both sides thinks the media lies or at least biased their content, don’t they? Not sure who Finn is so I’m a little lost on that.
Duane, I think vsgp believes grades are worthless essentially because they are NOT standardized — they vary from teacher to teacher, class to class, etc. It is exactly because standardized test scores are “standardized,” that they are “objective” and therefore valuable/predictive. Correct me if I’m wrong about your view, vsgp.
The thing vsgp and many others still do not understand is that just like grades, standardized test scores are, actually, arbitrary. While two different people taking the same standardized exam can be judged by the same “yardstick,” the yardstick itself is arbitrary and meaningless.
Ed Detective, why is the yard stick meaningless? If we are asking students to write an essay or to find the answer to the volume of a pool (to demonstrate they understand calculus and rates of change), how is the meaningless?
virginia said:
“With those teacher id’s, we can not only see which teachers are stars,”
By “stars” you must mean the teachers who don’t teach the neediest children, and the teachers who teach to the tests.
Ed Detective, thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain what the data showed once again. I know how teachers feel in having to explain something 7-8 times before it finally sinks in…. (Note that you might need to download the ppt/xls files to see all the graphics as Google doesn’t always display them correctly in the browser).
1. SGP scores are distributed equally across the percentile curve (1-99) for each set of kids with a similar score history. So what does that mean? For high-achieving kids, there are just as many kids who score low growth as there are high growth. For low-achieving kids, there are just as many kids who score high growth as there are low growth. Thus, by definition, you are incorrect in saying that the “stars” are only the ones who teach the high SES kids. If you don’t understand after I’ve explained it umpteen times, let me know, and I will try umpteen and one times.
2. I grouped the districts into four groups based on the average SOL scores (essentially SES) and the SGP scores (essentially effectiveness)
a. High SOL, high SGP – the “Stars”. Everybody thought these schools were great and they are (e.g. Fairfax).
b. Low SOL, low SGP – the “Failing Schools”. Everybody thought these schools were awful and they are. These are the schools Obama/Duncan/King are most concerned about.
c. High SOL, low SGP – the “Underachievers”. Nearly everyone thinks these schools are great, but they really aren’t. They just have high scores because they have affluent students. My district falls in this box as does the district that our current Superintendent left two years ago (York County). Without the data, I can’t show our citizens they are being fooled. That’s why the district fights so hard against releasing it.
d. Low SOL, high SGP – the “Miracle Workers”. Nearly everyone thinks these schools are awful and they are wrong. These schools get great growth even though the final scores are not great. Without this VAM data, nobody will ever know what a great job these schools are doing.
3. But even within these districts, I can take the individual-level data and analyze how schools are doing at teaching low-SES students. If we filter the data for only low SOL scores, we can see which districts get great growth among the low SES students. Amazingly, the best district overall (Fairfax) also achieved among the highest growth for its low SES students as well. Btw, Fairfax has about 2x the % of FRL and ESL students as my district has. Thus, my district touts its scores relative to Fairfax even though it’s an unfair comparison.
4. The MET study showed that the best teachers do not “teach to the test”. They inspire, get their kids more interested in class, and convey conceptual knowledge. But keep telling yourself everything in life is skewed against you.
Virginia, no one thinks much of the MET study since Jesse Rothstein demolished it.
virginia asked:
“Ed Detective, why is the yard stick meaningless? If we are asking students to write an essay or to find the answer to the volume of a pool (to demonstrate they understand calculus and rates of change), how is the meaningless?”
In short, it is meaningless because what you “measure” is 1) a value judgement 2) a quantified quality. You are not really measuring anything at all except an arbitrary quantification of what a single person or group values.
“Thus, by definition, you are incorrect in saying that the “stars” are only the ones who teach the high SES kids.”
I didn’t say that. I said the “stars” are the ones who don’t teach the NEEDIEST kids. Do you understand the difference?
“a. High SOL, high SGP – the “Stars”. Everybody thought these schools were great and they are (e.g. Fairfax).”
So the schools are great because of the scores, and the scores are great because of the schools. Would make sense if I didn’t think logically. It is not only a circular argument, but you beg the question by already assuming that high change in scores = good teacher/school. Your definition of a good teacher/school is one who gets high growth in test scores, when high growth in test scores doesn’t necessarily mean that the teacher or school is good — as many of us continue to point out in various ways.
“b. Low SOL, low SGP – the “Failing Schools”. Everybody thought these schools were awful and they are. These are the schools Obama/Duncan/King are most concerned about.”
Again, you define low/failing schools as poor test scores/test score growth, which is a major fallacy. As for Obama/Duncan/King, I couldn’t care less what they think on this issue, since they know less about education and our actual students than most of the people who comment on this blog.
“c. High SOL, low SGP – the “Underachievers”. Nearly everyone thinks these schools are great, but they really aren’t. They just have high scores because they have affluent students. My district falls in this box as does the district that our current Superintendent left two years ago (York County). Without the data, I can’t show our citizens they are being fooled. That’s why the district fights so hard against releasing it.”
Low SGP does not mean “underachievers,” or even low growth educationally or otherwise. It means low growth “in test scores” — again, an important distinction that seems to elude you. And contrary to your belief, there are ways to show if schools are doing well without using test score data. But these ways would involve actually going into the schools, looking around, talking to people, and knowing at least a little bit about education theory and practice.
“d. Low SOL, high SGP – the “Miracle Workers”. Nearly everyone thinks these schools are awful and they are wrong. These schools get great growth even though the final scores are not great. Without this VAM data, nobody will ever know what a great job these schools are doing.”
All those people are so wrong because the arbitrary formula says so. I don’t buy it. It is not only possible to raise test scores by doing bad things educationally and socially, it is how test scores are often raised in the real world. Once again, high growth “in test scores” does not mean high/good growth as people/minds.
“.3. But even within these districts, I can take the individual-level data and analyze how schools are doing at teaching low-SES students. If we filter the data for only low SOL scores, we can see which districts get great growth among the low SES students. Amazingly, the best district overall (Fairfax) also achieved among the highest growth for its low SES students as well. Btw, Fairfax has about 2x the % of FRL and ESL students as my district has. Thus, my district touts its scores relative to Fairfax even though it’s an unfair comparison.”
Your entire belief in this system is built on a faulty premise that some person’s formula indicating test score growth shows who is making the most growth educationally, socially, personally, etc.
“4. The MET study showed that the best teachers do not “teach to the test”. They inspire, get their kids more interested in class, and convey conceptual knowledge. But keep telling yourself everything in life is skewed against you.”
The best way to raise test scores is to teach directly to them. It is much easier to do this than to be an actual good educator. I am glad that education is a human system, not a mechanical one. If it was as simple and easy as raising test scores, I wouldn’t even be in the profession, because I prefer a challenge.
I don’t tell myself that “everything in life is skewed against me,” and I bet most of the educators who reject VAM/etc do not tell themselves that either. VAM/etc is not broken because of that reason, it is broken because it is built on a bad premise. It is deceitful, wrong, and ultimately an injustice that will hurt lives and careers, and ruin our view of schools and education itself.
This is what our contract says.
1. Unit members shall be responsible for providing students with the opportunity to investigate various sides of the topics presented in their courses, particularly in relation to controversial subjects, within such limits as may be imposed by relevance to the course, the level of maturity and the intellectual ability of the students, and the time available. Unit members shall permit freedom of expression on those topics that
are matters of opinion so that students may weigh alternate views and make up their own minds. Students shall be encouraged to examine, analyze, evaluate, and synthesize the information available to them before drawing conclusions in order to develop as fully as possible their capacities for rational judgment. Unit members
shall strive to promote tolerance for the opinions of others and respect for the right of all individuals to hold and express differing opinions
2. A unit member does not have privileged status by virtue of his/her position to make statements that are libelous, slanderous, or that violate the civil rights of others.
3. A unit member may express his/her own opinions in regard to political, social, and religious values or issues provided that the total presentation is essentially balanced and fair. He/she shall not use his/her professional contacts with students to further his/her own political aims or those of any individual or group.
(Staff) Ethical Conduct with Colleagues, Parents/Guardians, and the Community
Employees are expected to treat parents/guardians, other employees, and members of the community professionally and respectfully and comply with all nondiscrimination laws and policies in their relationships with other adults.
Selected examples of expected conduct:
• Practice civility in all interactions and seek and respect the opinions of others.
• Create a welcoming environment for parents/guardians and the school community.
• Communicate openly and respectfully.
• Use collaborative and interest-based strategies rather than positional or adversarial approaches.
• Provide and receive feedback constructively and respectfully.
Selected examples of inappropriate conduct:
• Do not engage in conduct that is rude or disrespectful to others.
I generally try to be circumspect, but freely express my opinions on any and all issues related to public education. When the Walton family et al are trying to destroy the institution my students are sitting in, I feel an OBLIGATION to give my point of view. When students and schools are victims of a coordinated test and smear campaign, I feel no need to hold back my point of view.
To express no opinion is to express an opinion. There’s opinion in silence too. Too often what is construed as “indoctrination” is simply the result of reasoned and rational arguments. When the side that loses the argument yells “That’s indoctrination!” that is a symptom of rigidity and refusal to accept that perhaps one might be wrong. Schools that discourage diverse opinions are those in danger of “indoctrination.”
Good point, and well said!
Academic freedom is a frail concept in higher education and has never prevailed in public elementary and secondary education. Diane has a good list of issues and cases here dianeravitch.net/2015/03/19/do-teachers-have-free-speech-rights/
If you like reading legal arguments here is one example http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/10a0334p-06.pdf
I entered teaching in the era of Joseph McCarthy’s witch hunts for “communists and Communist sympathizers” and long lists of “communist affiliated” groups where any record of your membership could prevent you from getting a job. Know your rights, defend them, and read the fine print in your contract. In today’s accountability schemes you can lose a job for not hitting the marks on evaluations of “professionalism” with gotcha rubrics for being “unprofessional” if you are critical of practices and practices. The anguish and anger registered by many teachers is the loss of individual and communal “voice” in matters that really matter while being inundated with too many absurd and mandated “professional development” packages.
Steven Singer: Should Teachers Have Strong Opinions? | Diane Ravitch’s blogSeriously, Laura… you make a valid point about the “loss of individual and communal ‘voice’ ” but as I read the commentary on this particular post, I see something much, much larger, something I knew would occur. It is the speed of it that is astonishing, and this is because the public is INUNDATED with information and data … all that become noise and just so much static
There are almost sixteen thousand school DISTRICTS. Most stressed & busy citizens can barely keep up with the football scores, the latest murders, the weather and traffic, and the Grammy awards, or the Trump-Cruz circus of autocratic social-dominators vying for attention.
How are they to know how quickly the American dream (which begins with education for all) is being systematically dismantled…. staring with the schools., unless they come HERE an listen to the conversations in THIS teacher’s room, like the ongoing one one this valuable post… the ‘muzzling’ of the classroom teacher.
SO CLEVER! Under the guise of offering a curriculum for all teachers, one that raises standards, THE HAVE ENSURED THAT THE AMERICAN TEACHER CAN NO LONGER TALK TRUTH TO THEIR STUDENTS, nor introduce children to the once sacred values that ALL HEALTHY SOCIETIES passed on to their kids. (Has anyone read, “In The Absence of the Sacred,” by Jerry Mander.
http://www.scottlondon.com/reviews/mander.html
By sacred he means the values that home, neighborhood and community once showed our youngster: here is what good folks do to improve our lives as a society. T V tells them what they should fear, what they should covet and desire, and how they should react and behave when something crosses their path which IS different! Trump tells them trump-truth.”
Yes, the conversation about ‘kids,’ ‘schools,’ curricula and testing is obscuring the one that must take place about WHAT SCHOOL ACCOMPLISHES when it comes to the social skills…THE ’S-O-C-I’ in society.. School is more than a ‘training’ facility where future citizens learn to do math, spell, and maybe write code, but know very little about human history, or what really makes a democracy flourish.
Our citizens shudder at words about economic systems, like ‘socialism,’ because they have no grasp that it is not a synonym for ‘communism,’ which is a political system People who depend on social security and medicare, who want their roads and bridges fixed, and to ride in transpiration that is cheap and reliable desire social programs which government provides for the ‘common good’…except here where our health and transportation and now our education systems fail the massess and enrich the few.
400 people run this nation for their own good and steal the national wealth, but they own the media and so they spin a tale about schools, talking endlessly about ‘teaching’ and telling them that high scores offer a look at what a child knows. Bamboolzed.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/BAMBOOZLE-THEM-where-tea-by-Susan-Lee-Schwartz-110524-511.html
It is impossible for THE AVERAGE PERSON TO RECOGNIZE what learning looks like, THEY ARE CLUELESS about how their children (our FUTURE CITIZENS) learn TO THINK CRITICALLY so they can participate in a democracy. How easy it has been for Gates to end the most crucial value of an education… to think critically about ones world!
Minus real information about our Constitution and with critical analysis gone from the humanities, how will a voting citizen be able to choose. Koch and pals know this.
AND THEY KNOW THIS:
These learners will NOT be kids for long… they will be CITIZENS! Now, that sends shivers down MY spine.
And what they are learning in MR GATES PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM will never prepare them for the dangerous world that has sprung up around them… a world of full-time war, from which these death merchants profit. If not in school, how will a citizenry that is addicted to a ‘screen’ ever know what is happening? Eh? Is that an essential question, friends?
Our future citizens NEED rich conversations FROM TRUSTED EDUCATION PROFESSIONALS, so they can compare WHAT THEY SEE & HEAR with the things THAT THEY KNOW (Prior knowledge).
Geeze, COMPARE AND CONTRAST is the first step in Bloom’s hierarchy of analytical skills.
“Ideas” are the meat of books, and THUS, it is IDEAS THAT are being fed to them,not only on the television and on their screens, but in the schools, where the choice about the conversations that take place is OVER– th kind of CONVERSATIONS THAT OCCUR when a teacher reads a story or book with a class.
TV offers non-stop competitions, where there is always a LOSER. Winning is NOT everything.
Hey, I was born in 1941, and I watched tv bloom from ‘Father Knows Best’, to Homer Simpson and Modern Family Tv and the media offer kids non-stop aggression to solve everything. And when our legislators refuse to ‘give in’ and compromise, and ‘negotiations’ becomes a negative word, there is no way to resolve any problem! EXACTLY what the fascists desire… because they will offer to ‘fix’ things.. with big data, drones, better weapons, and , oh yeah — school reform!
All this testing data may reveal a kids grasp of math or science facts, but only a teacher can uncover what an emergent learner grasps about THE WAY THINGS ARE and the way THINGS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN!
Ironic, that in this era of information, it is the very size of data we humans get each day, that makes it possible for the fascists to do their thing. They drown the wold in 24/7 punditry and talking heads…too much words. No wonder our kids tune out words and want to watch action, and play video games where they can WIN!
Yes, I use the word fascist, for these oligarchs who see no impediment to their control of the United States.
How else would one describe the top-down mandates from the EIC… as Gates, Koch and crowd decide what it appropriate for our future citizens to know…LIKE REAL FACTS>>>Here is fact:
https://dianeravitch.net/2014/12/05/north-carolina-plans-to-adopt-koch-funded-social-studies-curriculum/
and here is A FACTUAL ARTICLE ABOUT what is that the KOCHs do to make a million dollars an hour. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/inside-the-koch-brothers-toxic-empire-20140924
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/inside-the-koch-brothers-toxic-empire-20140924
And id there is fortress proof necessary as to just how much the Kochs want to control what Americans know:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/01/koch-brothers-jane-mayer-dark-money
And while I am o the subject of DARK MONEY, http://billmoyers.com/2014/09/22/5-signs-dark-money-apocalypse-upon-us/?utm_source=General+Interest&utm_campaign=94370722aa-Midweek_0924149_24_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_4ebbe6839f-94370722aa-168347829
Did I ever mention here, that I was a member of the Media Foundation which was a group in the nineties that offered curricula advice for teachers who wanted to demonstrate to their children that television and advertising was influencing their choices. Media & communication was a subject I studied in the sixties.
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc1004/article_903.shtml
I have a media unit that would blow you away, and ensured that the EIC would end my tenure… cannot have a teacher who SHOWS children the manipulation… THE LETTERS THEY WROTE TO ME, DURING THAT UNIT, are incredible.
I gotta go. Ian working on my photos for competitions, but I follow you guys, and THIS CONVERSATION about what the teachers OUT THERE NOW can and cannot say IS BLOWING ME AWAY.
THE PUBLIC DOES NOT REALIZE THIS!!!!!
When time permits, I will write an article for Oped on THE NEW CURRICULUM: what it neglects to teach our children!
Maybe if teachers shared their opinions more often, we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in.
Yes, I know the difference between sharing opinions in a classroom with students and speaking out as a professional with other colleagues. But people often have one feeling about opinions – keep them to yourselves, or share. Many teachers who feel their opinions don’t have a place in the classroom, feel the same goes for their workplace. In my district there’s a strong message that “professionalism” = quiet compliance. Most of my colleagues obey out of fear and fatigue. Even when compliance contradicts “best practices.” If more people shared their true opinions, it’s possible the conversation would widen and the job we did as educators would benefit.
I think we need to share more often. And join in as a chorus of informed, educated, experienced voices. Share with the kids (appropriately so, of course.) And share with your colleagues and admins.
Can’t right win out over might?
(That’s ever optimistic me again…still hoping for others to join in…)
Read what I said to Laura Chapman!
Then there is the tacit acceptance of a teacher’s opinions until someone with power does not like those opinions. How many teachers know someone driven from the classroom for conduct that was not an issue in the past? I have remained anonymous first in the hopes of working again and then as that hope faded to protect my husband’s business. I seriously doubt my opinions would cause trouble, but I suspect that they have caused me problems in the past. I was/and tend to still be naive when it comes to expressing my opinion, but I am leery of broadcasting it on the internet. Too many people are intolerant of opinion that does not mirror their own.
On occasion, in my high school classroom, my students would ask my opinion. I frequently used a Likert scale as a method to start a discussion. It allowed us to discuss a range of opinions and was somehow less threatening perhaps because it allowed/recognized a range of possible opinions. I tried not to offer my opinion before they had offered theirs. Sometimes it took my lead to open a discussion, but that was usually only after we had established a mutual trust and respect.
Teachers who gain the confidence of their students are generally successful in voicing their opinions without alienating their students. But the importance of putting yourself in the position of being able to argue both sides and sound reasonable cannot be underestimated.
Hot button issues can alienate some students. If a kid hears that evolution is evil from the pulpit, you are not about to teach him about evolution without explaining that he needs to know the arguments of his opponents, an approach that might hide the fact that you see no conflict between your own religion and evolution theory. Approach that kid dogmatically, and you will not only lose the kid with regard to the hot button issue, you will be rejected across the board.
If we care about the students, we will do what is judicious.
The scripted lessons called interim assessments that my district had me employ this month contained embedded ideologies. Common Core labeled it “argumentative text” study. I recently taught my middle school English classes that lying may sometimes be okay, and that bottled water companies may be scamming the public with dirty tap water propaganda. When the kiddies asked me, after I’d presented the district’s competency-based positions and counterarguments if I thought dishonesty was acceptable or if water was well regulated by our leaders today, I felt compelled to shrug my shoulders. Who is allowed to have an opinion? Someone is, but not I.
I vaguely recall reading, several years ago, that teachers in authoritarian China were not allowed to vote. Whether or not that was or is true, I fear that is the direction in which we’re headed if I cannot express my views on social media (while villainthropists are permitted free dominance of nearly all media). Obviously, when my students have asked me in class on so many occasions if I believed in ghosts, in Illuminati, or in Donald Trump, I had to shrug and ask them to establish and defend their own positions. But if I, as a public servant, can be neither religious nor agnostic, independent nor establishmentarian, conservative nor progressive in my personal life, something has gone horribly wrong with this country and the world.
If prefaced by “This is what I believe,” and not presented as fact, what would be wrong with expressing an opinion? It’s when you DON’T preface with “This is what I believe” and state opinions as fact that there’s a problem, I would think.
Go ahead– try that… preface words that will upset a parent because it contradicts their ingrained , dearly-held beliefs… and watch them rail on to the principal, who will have a thing or two about what you can say.
Um, I have been teaching since 1983, am still at it, and have spoken up in conflict of many people’s beliefs. Please Google my name and you will likely see my story. I know you have a story as well, Susan, but I find your “permission” for me to “go ahead — try that” a tad condescending. As if I haven’t tried? What…?
I did not mean to be condescending, my sarcasm is from watching 16 years as teachers go down for having strong voices, but if they are out to get rid of you, or if the parents who object have a voice in the school, nothing can save you. If you are lucky enough to be appreciated because you have a strong reputation as a professional educator whom the kids love, then you can teach concepts and ideas that are controversial…but it is lucky in today’s landscape. My story is just one of tens of thousands… and I have told it here many times… but you can fin de online , too, where I write about the war on public eduction and teachers.
http://www.opednews.com/author/author40790.html
I’m still in the classroom not because I’m so appreciated and have so many allies or my students love me (I do believe the vast majority respect me), Susan, but because I fought the 1995 decision with the invaluable assistance of my NEA NH attorney http://articles.latimes.com/1995-11-26/news/mn-7229_1_school-board, http://ncac.org/censorship-article/penny-culliton-reinstated, http://educationvotes.nea.org/2015/08/22/state-news-roundup-for-august-22-2015/
Wow. I am so in awe of what you did.
I did not fight. I was perhaps the mot celebrated educator in the state, no just in NYC, when they came after the tenured teachers, and I had the bad luck of being in a district where the political beasts had risen to the top with not a shred of accountability, or moral judgement to stop them. The union looked the other way, and were complicit in the removal of the tenured professionals in NYC, which led to this http://vimeo.com/41994760
I was totally blindsided because from 1963 to 1988, all principals for whom I worked, were there to support learning, and thus the teacher.
In the 16 years since then, I have heard the stories across the nation, but back then, I did not even know the gotcha squad existed.
http://nycrubberroomreporter.blogspot.com/2009/03/gotcha-squad-and-new-york-city-rubber.html
I met Betsy Combier years later, after I had run for my life into retirement. How I met her is a story that I have never revealed anywhere, but this is a good time to show how the law worked for an ordinary teacher.
Several years after I retired, Betsy who was working at the UFT, came to me and explained that Randi was thinking about a lawsuit, and looking for teachers whose civil rights had been mangled by. the NYC DOE (dept of ed), David Pakter (goggle him) was with her, and they both were in the room when I met with UFT attorney Adam Ross.
I met with Mr Ross (Betsy was there) and I delivered my documents, photos and videos that showed exactly how they had found me guilty of corporal punishment ( a crime) with out so much as a letter, or a meeting from anyone at the school,the district or the DOE NO hearing, nada… just a letter “you have been found guilty, ” because they said I had cursed at a child and THIS was corporal punishment.
MY attorney, for his 25k, made the education law clear, and I was returned to the school… BUT I WAS NO longer the 7th grade teacher in the classroom I had made famous, in this school which I had helped to put on the map in NYC.! I was now housed in a closet, with no materials or curriculum, where a few kids were pulled – out, to be with me while missing their regular class — in a program that never before existed.
Now , I was visited by the principal, daily, and (after emptying my employment folder of decades worth of excellent service), she ‘documented’ my incompetence;
http://nycrubberroomreporter.blogspot.com/2012/06/issue-of-observation-reports-and-using.html
They did put out a charge of incompetence … even though I was being studied (and filmed by the LRDC) by Pew as one of the top educators in the nation.
Blindsided at the MEETING where this judgement BY Superintendent Fink was read, I needed legal legs to stand on, but when I stood up, and said, ‘but who are these kids who said I cursed,” the UFT rep for MANHATTAN, Ivan Tiger, told me to ‘SIT DOWN AND BE QUIET.”
There is more to that moment when my civil rights were flushed down the drain BUT unlike you, I did not sue… I had no idea what was happening, and I was now, very ill from 3 years of harassment. I was naive and foolish, with no one to help me.
However, Mr Ross, and thus Randi herself, had a long hard look at what I had collected as evidence of how I got into the mess, and it revealed exactly HOW THE UNION had failed me,; thus, she realized that I was not a good choice — as an example of civil rights abuse by the DOE. Mr Tiger, was quietly reassigned to Albany, and Fink went on to San Diego (where her authoritarian style did not play well, and they ‘released’ her.)
Since then, teachers have sued…but the media never reports the abuse.
David Pakter sued and won (after spending half a million bucks and 10 years). He was also a famous NYC teacher, who brought n a plant and pissed off the principal.
Karen Horwitz sued and lost, so she wrote a book http://www.whitechalkcrime.com/wcc/
Walter Porr, that wonderful human being, a retired fireman who became a teacher, sued and lost, putting ten years of his life into getting justice.
Lorna Stremcha put all of her saving and years of her life into suing
http://blog.ebosswatch.com/2013/05/one-womans-legal-fight-against-workplace-bullying/
PORTELOS is still pushing for his rights, striving NOT to be fired, even though now he is a sub, running from school to school.
http://www.endteacherabuse.org/Portelos.html
WHY SHOULD TEACHERS HAVE TO SUE in order to have the Bill of Rights, work for them in the school workplace. Why must they give up years to battle in court, when all they want to do IS TO HELP KIDS LEARN!
http://nycrubberroomreporter.blogspot.com/2016/01/david-suker-final-word-on-his-6-year.html
I remember when Long Island teacher Dania Hall, came up against the war on teachers and went up against the superintendent who had come after her, once her 3 year probationary period was over. She could NOT find an attorney back then, to help her. That, was a common experience — as most attorneys recognized the issue of union failure or had conflict of interest with the city.
http://endteacherabuse.org/Hall.html
http://nycrubberroomreporter.blogspot.com/2008/12/north-bellmore-ny-teacher-dania-hall.html
I hear that she is finally in court, OVER A DECADE LATER, but AS USUSAL when teachers finally get a court decision… SHE CANNOT TALK ABOUT IT… which is part of their game to keep the civil rights abuse of teachers OUT OF THE NEWS.
So Penny, you did well. I am happy to hear your story.
But THIS, my dear is the story of most teachers who come up against the lawless bureaucracy that exists in so many the 15,880 school systems, that operate in the darkness the EIC creates by owning the media.
Until collective bargaining rights are restored, and teachers organize to ensure they have a voice, nothing will change. The EIC uses our isolation and ignorance against us while this , which I wrote in 2004, becomes the tactic, when VAM can’t discredit the teacher. It worked in the nineties to remove over a hundred thousand veteran teachers with tenure,as th media sand the song “bad teacher
http://www.perdaily.com/2011/01/lausd-et-al-a-national-scandal-of-enormous-proportions-by-susan-lee-schwartz-part-1.html
Thanks for taking the time to give me that link, which I will keep as an example of a courageous teacher who would not give up.
All I can say is I know I was incredibly lucky to have the NEA staff attorney I did. Lucky doesn;t even begin to express it. Also, our local CBA has a just cause clause. Were it not for that clause, I would’ve been sunk. We did not file a lawsuit; the contract called for arbitration, and that’s the route we went. Arbitrator decided that I was to be suspended for one year without pay, which was the year I had spent fighting the dismissal. Even with all that, it was Steve Sacks of NEA-NH who made the difference.
I have actually been through stuff I consider worse since then, esp. 4 years ago when I, too, was reassigned to completely different classes, books taken away, etc. Right now, things are OK. We shall see…
There is a reason that I tweet and blog undercover using a pseudonym–I would not only lose my teaching job but have no chance of ever finding a new one. Teachers in my area are being watched if they speak up in any way.
I always think it is interesting when a fellow teacher makes statements such as, “Obama has a plan to take our guns,” or “I bet you believe that climate change is real,” in the staff room. I realize that my political beliefs would sound alarming to them.
I live and teach in a small rural town. I love it here, however my political leanings are not widely appreciated. As any teacher knows, we are community ambassadors 24/7. I can’t ever shop, go to the dentist, renew my license, pay a bill, etc. without discussing a current or former student with a parent. I often listen resignedly to their right-wing rants and raves. I respect their free speech.
But there is a limit. My town is predominately anti-gay, anti-black, anti-Latino, anti-Jew, anti-Muslim, and more. I know because my students tell me word-for-word what their parents tell them. Sometimes their parents are fellow teachers. I simply tell them that their parents don’t understand the big picture; that they are missing important information. Then I correct the misinformation. I’ve been doing it non-stop for 18 years and have never had a complaint. I’ve taught all grades from K to 12. I know the kids go home and tell their parents and so I’ve come to the conclusion that my community must either respect my right to an opinion, or deep down they know they’re wrong. Either way, it gives me hope.
Now if only some of our administrators could show the same respect. Some, in keeping with our Super’s policy, try to control our thoughts and words. We repay them by agreeing with every parent at the local market that they couldn’t administrate their way out of a paper bag. They seem to think we are all a pack of hillbillies. Eventually they are undermined to the point of leaving and we start all over. It seems to be the one political view upon which we can all agree; it’s unfair to be anti-hillbilly.
You have to give respect to get respect. How will our students learn this important lesson if we don’t give them a chance to practice? Those that don’t are doomed to be our district’s future superintendent.
Well said, Marita. The fact that there are towns in this country that, as you write, are, “…predominately anti-gay, anti-black,anti-Latino, anti-Jew, anti-Muslim and more.” is really scary. I mean, this is 2016.
I missed this discussion on the blog yesterday because I was judging at a speech/debate tournament at my kids’ school. What a wonderful, hardworking group of students. The kids came from all over upstate New York. Boy, could they argue a point.
There was no standardized testing, no APPR, no SLOs. The students were certainly working way off any prefabricated script. And, let me tell you it was very difficult to judge them, to rank them at the end of a round. This was NOT a multiple choice endeavor. No “Scrantron” device was going to spit out the data for me.
And, as a bonus, I had quite a long, serious discussion in between rounds about school policy with one of the other judges -someone who didn’t necessarily eye to eye with everything I believe.
If the so-called “reform” crowd has any real interest in what good teachers and students are doing right now in our country they ought to spend a day at one of these speech tournaments.
There ARE places where real education is going on. Thanks to you and the other people on this blog for making your classrooms some of those places. That’s a hopeful sign.
Thank-you, Marita. Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you!!
How does one present Columbus? How do I interpret him to my fourth grade students, 99% of whom are the great, great, great grandchildren of American slaves? How would the parents of my students want me to explain this historical figure?
On one extreme, he is presented as a romantic adventurer, setting off into the unknown, braving danger, and etc.
On the other end of this interpretive continuum is the more cynical and more honest view that he was he a booty seeking pragmatist running his whole voyage like a business, looking to monetize anything that moved (or shined).
Both views need to be put into historical context : one is a simplistic fiction that sugar coats the world, tilting it towards the nationalistic narrative that the USA is great.
The other acknowledges that most of history, when viewed frankly, is a history of crime.
What’s the difference between Indoctrination, and teaching. When we teach are we trying to reveal truth or spin it?
How do I present anything of the world to my students? How do I talk about slavery, The Civil Rights Movement, the American Revolution , the U.S. expansion west?
Teaching and learning are a process that puts the world into an ever expanding context that increases understanding. But not every parent and community want the truth. Some want live with values and ideas that are known and comfortable.
So, as a teacher, who do I serve, the truth, or the values of the parents and community and the local culture?
I know who pays me…
No one responded to the fact that I’m 74. Maybe the thrust of that question was that young whippersnappers just don’t have the experience or maturity. So now the assumption is I am immature and don’t learn from experience. 🙂
Anyway, Jonathan deals with students who are not part of the Great GOP Land. I taught a mixed bag: Latinos. Anglos, Native Americans and Blacks with a big Mormon contingent. I knew I had some protection b/c I sent many LDS missionaries to Russia out of my Russian class. They liked me and were powerfully influential.
I tried to personalize issues for adolescents, e.g. I would tell them my wife, whom they knew b/c she was a counselor at a neighboring jr hi, had a great grandfather who was a slave. “How many of you have a great grandparent living?” That is not political, it is not indoctrination: it’s just a personal fact. When the moms announced at an assembly that girls in the 50s dressed more modestly, I went back to class and reminded the kids of the 50s song, Short Shorts, I got as lascivious as I could in describing the shorts, the girls, the boys’ reactions, etc. Just the observations of someone who was there, but I hope it destroyed the propaganda purveyed by parents with a spurious motive for distorting the past.
I would present material from their history textbook as part of my foreign language classes (I had earlier taught social studies), esp the U.S. role in Latin-America, and when they objected that it made the U.S. sound like a bully, I’d reveal to them the source of the information.
Thus the on-going efforts to denude textbooks of anything but the American Exceptionalism and Christian Nation approach to history and civics. Every teacher worth his salt should resist those efforts b/c if we Pinko-Commie types ever get in power, we could deprive you of the right to mention Hayek or Friedman..
Wel, as long as i pays the bill!
Jonathan, that’s a good question. Or the conquistadors? Maybe we could talk about how despite how we view some of the European conquerors’ methods as brutal, the methods of the South American natives were so, so much more brutal. Maybe if the Mesoamericans weren’t so eager to ally themselves with Cortez and defeat the Aztecs, it would have taken more than a few hundred Spaniards to conquer a continent.
Or maybe when you describe how so many Native American tribes were overpowered by the Europeans, and often killed, you can describe how those same tribes had driven out/conquered/enslaved the previous Native American tribes who came before them. Victims are usually those complain once they are no longer doing the conquering.
I’m not saying it’s easy. But I’m saying this effort to attribute everything bad in this world to America and to complain that the founders were not progressive from a 20th century point of view when kings could have someone’s head on a stick at the drop of a hat. I’m a big fan of Martin Luther King, Jr. His writings. His patience. His bravery. But let’s make one thing clear. MLK’s bravery pales in comparison to the founders. When they signed that Declaration of Independence, they signed their death warrants if they lost. Very few civil rights leaders of the 1960’s actually lost their lives. It doesn’t diminish their bravery or the significance of what they did. But when parts of our society try to elevate the women’s suffrage movement, the civil rights movement or the labor movement above the bravery and significance of the first modern democracy, we know that those “pinko communists” have run amok in our educational institutions, right pbarret?
Virginia, did you forget that Martin Luther King Jr. signed his death warrant when he went to Memphis to defend workers and their wish to form a union?
MLK was certainly a target for a long time. There were lots of folks with animosity toward him not the least of which was Elijah Muhammed. The King family even believed it was some wider conspiracy. I have no reason not to believe Ray killed King. King was certainly brave. But how many others’ life was really in jeopardy?
I don’t by any means intend to diminish the work of the civil rights leaders. I do think that the focused praise on the more recent leaders and the eschewing of the founders because they still held on to discriminatory views is unfair. Those founders were making progress and they had a lot more on the line in general than the more recent movements. You can say the founders had more privileges prior to the Revolutionary War and afterwards, but then that’s all the more reason to credit them for risking their very lives to start this democracy. In my daughter’s school, they focus more on a few civil rights leaders of the 20th century than the giants of the 18th century. I think that is what folks object to when we hear critiques of the “bad ol US of A” from the holier than thou Monday morning quarterbacks.
With the tax structure the way it is and the going back and forth of $$ b/t state, federal, etc.– all of America pays you (and me). That is, when if we’re speaking monetarily. But there’s bigger picture, and a much higher purpose: the legacy one leaves behind. We can’t take the $$ with us when we die, but we can create change when we’re alive. Thanks for what you do!
Virginia– “In my daughter’s school, they focus more on a few civil rights leaders of the 20th century than the giants of the 18th century.” EXACTLY. Our SS dept does not teach anything before Westward Expansion to anyone but AP students(reason: they won’t get to the 21st C. if they do). I try to make up for this in Am Lit by teaching passages from Jefferson’s Notes on the State of VA, Franklin’s Autobio, and the letters of John and Abigail Adams & Paine’s Age of Reason, but … it seems so little, and the kids don;t have all the context that they used to have.
I have nothing to add to what has been said, after all, to paraphrase Mitt Romney, teachers are people too. I am fortunate enough to teach English Literature and I am always reminding my students that any opinion of a text that can be supported from the text by an accurate reading of the text is valid, whether it is my opinion or not, it is not like mathematics where 2+2 always equals 4, unless of course you are in base three in which case it is eleven. Which is to say that point of view and frame of reference matters in most things.
Cordially,
J. D. Wilson, Jr.
J. D. Wilson, Jr, that is why you don’t teach math. Eleven != 11 base 3. It still equals four.
Actually not, in base 3, 3=10 and 4=11. It is sort of like the bumper sticker that reads there are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that do not.
Here is a chart from Wolfram Math World, web address (the chart goes on beyond 4, but here are 1-4 in base 10 converted to base 3):
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Ternary.html
1 1
2 2
3 10
4 11
Does this mean that if you had 4 oranges you now have 11 oranges, no, but in a base 3 system 11=4, it isn’t complicated. It is just a different way of counting. But it is true that because people could think and write code in hexadecimal, base 16, that personal computing was able to get off the ground and continue I believe to this very day. I do not understand the advantage a base 16 system has over a base 10 system, but it does. And of course we can only have computers because of the binary, base 2 number system lets everything be reduced to a 1 and a 0. For some reason humans like base 10 (which I find to be very true in my experience) but machines love base 2 and 16, go figure).
Cordially,
J. D. Wilson, Jr.
Diane, this is why so many of us like Gates and Intel’s Barrett and Sal Khan are so scared for our children. Mr. Wilson doesn’t understand the difference between the word “eleven” and notation 11 base x. The second is not eleven unless the base is 10. They get some “method” in their head but fundamentally misunderstand the math involved.
Mr. Wilson, put another way “B” in hex is also “eleven”. My 4th grade daughter understands this because I think understanding the number system is so important that we practice all kinds of bases. We even studied Roman numerals to demonstrate why it was such an impractical number system.
We also study primes. As you recall, the movie “Contact” assumed that if an alien race made contact, they would need a universal means to communicate. Primes are primes in any base, language or math system. Primes are also very useful in any number of fields including encryption.
At its heart, this is why an education major simply cannot teach math in K-5. When they fail to understand basic concepts like orders of magnitude in a number system and universality of numbers across notations, how can we expect them to teach concepts? Yes, maybe education majors can all teach ELA. We definitely need to separate math instructors into a different group and recruit, retain and pay them differently.
That is exactly my point, before you can answer the problem 2+2 = you need to know the number system in which you are working mathematically speaking. We assume base 10 because most of our lives are lived in base 10, but in mathematics we have to check the notations, which provides the mathematical frame of reference before we can answer the question, solve the problem. What I say is intended as a little (very little) joke, but it underscores my belief that it is important to take little if anything for granted.
Cordially,
J. D. Wilson, Jr.
Let me add one other thing if I may. I think it is important to add a bit of whimsy into things, that we cannot be deadly serious about everything. I think it is also important to illustrate the importance of paying attention. When I say what I do about base 3 the students know what I am talking about, they know about mathematical notation and the like. The issue for me is making assumptions rather than paying attention. I do not believe, as most others have said, in telling student what to believe or how to think, I think it is important to help students know their own minds and to be able to show the thinking behind what they think. It is too easy to become too strident about things at which point we start to lose sight of each other as human beings. I think it is important to hear all points of view virginiagsp’s and leftcoastteacher and the rest. We cannot respect each other or each others’ views if we are too dismissive of the views we do not share. There is another thread on Dickens and his Mr. Gradgrind (another thread on this site). What I think is as troubling as his preoccupation only with facts is his lack of a sense of humor, his dehumanizing of everything. Facts are important, but so is imagination and so is the ability to see a lighter side to things. I do not question the genuineness of everyone here as a teacher, if they were insincere or indifferent to the profession I doubt they would be posting here. I still believe that attention to details and knowing the context of what we are doing, whether Math, Science, History, or English, is important. But others are free to disagree and the disagreements have their value and importance as well.
Cordially,
J. D. Wilson, Jr.
As a teacher of both debate and AP language, I have my students grapple with a lot of complex and controversial issues, and I tell them, “You will never know how I stand on these, not because I don’t have opinions–I do–but because it is my job to give you the information and the tools that you’re going to need to struggle toward coming to your own conclusions. It’s not my calling to indoctrinate you. Indoctrination is what teachers in Stalin’s Russia did. And, I’m not so sure, about a lot of these issues, that I am right. Robert Frost wrote, ‘I never hold tenets on anything, only tentatives,’ and I can report, tentatively, that that sounds to me like wisdom.”
It’s not uncommon for me to give students strongly argued positions on both sides of an issue–modeling for them what good arguments look like. I shall be doing that tomorrow on the questions of the existence of extraterrestrial life and the value of funding the SETI program.
Needless to say, this frustrates my students a lot. They want me to give them easy answers to complex questions. They want to be able to place me into various categories of person–to know my politics and religion and what not–and it is unsettling to them when they can’t do that. I want them to think and to appreciate the complexities. And I want them to come out of my classes with a lot of unsettled questions of their own. The more, the better. Education should be unsettling.
Of course, there is no being pure about this. One reveals a lot by what questions one poses, even if one doesn’t answer them. The question about extraterrestrials reveals a lot about what matters to me–scientific understanding, wonder. There are those who would consider the question frivolous. I think they’re wrong, and for good reason. I betray my views, there, simply by posing the question.
And, I warn students that there are some issues to which there simply aren’t rational or ethically defensible “sides.” Astrology. Gas chambers. Numerology. Miscegenation laws.
Best answer so far.