Angie Sullivan, kindergarten teacher in Clark County (Las Vegas), Nevada, works in a school that is eligible for “turnaround.” All the teachers were called for interviews. Here is her report on what happened:
The CCSD turnaround school selection process is a nonsensical destructive monster. They claim school turnaround is based on data – and this is a lie. This CCSD “empire” needs to be reviewed and reconsidered.
At a time when 30,000 CCSD students do not have a licensed teacher – the highly qualified fully licensed teachers at my school were “interviewed” yesterday. The main product of the turnaround interview: scaring real teachers who have been under threat of interview since December 15th.
There are plenty of schools in the district to “turnaround” since many places have only long term substitutes as staff. Opportunties for “take-over” are plentiful.
There is no good reason to threaten to implode a fully staffed CCSD school by interviewing us all day.
I was interviewed last year and this year. The strange turnaround interview questions are all about assessment and data driven instruction. I understand from the questioning – someone powerful thinks data is learning.
I will state here – it is not. Kids are more than a score. If the focus is only data – a full education is not obtained. Period. Many, many things are learned by students in my classroom everyday which will never be measured but are essential. Data is a tool – one tool. That is all. And computer data is only one snap-shot in time and measure what computer data can measure. That is all. Data will only measure a small piece of learning.
For those of you who do not know what turnaround is . . .
The district takes a school with low standardized scores and removes the principal and interviews the staff. Some staff are allowed to stay but many teachers have to find a new place to work. It implodes the school. Then “turns the school around” by over-testing and micro-managing the staff and students. It is not proven to be effective. If you study results of turnaround schools across the United States – it has not been a success. It is proven to be scary and disruptive – removing teachers and dispacing them. It is primarily used to re-organize schools with students and parents who cannot effectively advocate for themselves. Children of color re-organized into robotic scary testing scripted education environments. At a time when the teachers were fighting for pay and insurance, “turnaround” CCSD administrators were at the school board asking for another test for African American students. The turnaround focus is not on finding and retaining geat teachers or caring about students – the focus is improving testing scores.
Having gone through the turnaround interview process twice now – I am convinced it is most effective at targeting veteran teachers and harrassing them.
Why do I say this?
My school has not been able to use standardized tests for two years. We were a pilot school for SBAC in 2014 and it didn’t run. Then last year 2015 when SBAC was implemented for all Nevada – SBAC failed across the state. Our last valid standardized testing was three years ago 2013 because that was when the computers could run the test.
My school has no current standardized data.
Turnaround is based on standardized testing – but the testing hasn’t happened.
I was interviewed because of testing my school did three years ago in 2013? Mysterious data qualified my school for turnaround.
Some of the other assessments that could have been used are questionable as far as accuracy – I mentioned this openly to the interviewers. My direct langauage was: They are crap because they are.
There is an current environment in which we are not encouraged to openly question the validity of the tests we are mandated to use – but we should. Just because someone spent a lot of money doesn’t meanwhile it is a worthwhile test.
My school keeps having to interview because my school computers did not run the test in 2014 and 2015?
I kept asking at the interview which data was being used because we haven’t been able to test our kids for two years. We have a lot of data from other types of tests. Which mystery data was driving the turnaround selection process? No one could tell me why my school was selected or which data my school “failed” to be selected for turnaround.
Selection of my school to interview this year was random.
Admin used the words data to justify harrassing my school staff and no one was supposed to question. I am very angry. Being randomly interviewed based on events in 2013 is harrassment. And this was the answer I was given when I asked.
The turnaround interview team who was sent did not know why they were there. I asked them.
The turnaround interview team asks sterile weird questions about data and assessment and evalution. I told them many important things that would be helpful if people cared – but the computerized form did not allow for them to record this input. If it did not fit into the computerized interview slot – it was rejected and not needed. This was not an interview where I could particpate.
Some of the questions were encouraging staff to disparage each other. I don’t appreciate interviews that ask me to talk badly about the people I work with. Schools are a community and teachers should help each other.
Some of the questions were asking me to disparage my administrator. I felt like asking if I needed to invoke Weingarten Rights and get a union representative to help me. My adminstrator is excellent because kids come first.
Some of the questions were encouraging staff to evaluate each other by wandering around other classrooms. Teachers should not be encouraged to “spy” on each other – it destroys a schools environment when this happens. We learn best from each other but not if staff are encourage to report so teachers will be punished.
Some of the questions were degrading and insulting. Yes or No questions with no win-win answers. Totally frustrating because teaching is not black and white.
What are the components of an effective lesson? This old teacher would frankly state there are many effective ways to instruct – which one do you want? What subject are you teaching? What is the goal of the lesson? Again – no one right answer.
I consider the whole turnaround interview process harrassment. It felt like an attack on my due process and like I was set up to fail. The interview people were nice enough but sent to fill in the blanks not to help my school. The scare tactic of interviewing teaching staff with decades of experience is not nice. It is bullying and union-busting. Period.
I think the decision has already been made somewhere far away from my classroom – but they were instructed to torture us anyhow to prove some point or meet a random goal.
None of the questions asked about kids. I offered but it didn’t fit in the blank.
This interview was not about caring or authentic instruction which is essential to real learning. This interview could not provide any real information to anyone about what actually goes on in my classroom.
It was an investigation about my peers, my principal, and my data.
I feel like my union representation should have been there.
___________________
In summary:
Turnaround being data driven is a lie. It is random and scary. Any school could be selected at anytime and my school proves this. Current CCSD turnaround interviews are terrible data too – since the computer only allows certain answers to be recorded.
The district has many, many places which are ripe to “turnaround” because they are decimated already. Threatening to destroy my school so someone powerful can check off a box somewhere for money is ridiculous.
The computers not working at my school – this is a problem that is not solved by interviewing my staff. My school does not have the tools to give anyone reliable data.
Everyone needs to be asking frank questions about the turnaround selection process and this empire as a whole. CCSD turnaround grabbing a school like mine to interview makes absolutely zero sense unless something outside of valid data is actually the basis for being considered.
The CCSD turnaround monster is gobbling up real teachers and students. Is it making progress according to its own teribble strict data collection?
Someone needs to be asking questions. Big ones.
And I will state the obvious – we are short licensed highly qualified teachers.
Even on my worst day, I’m better than a long term sub who doesn’t have a college degree. You get rid of people like me and replace me with whom?
What are we doing?
Crazytown. Stressful. Waste of time and money.

My comments concerning this blog are contained in the blog adjoining this one.
I believe they are HIGHLY relevant to this one.
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Peg With Pen blogs from Colorado, but I don’t imagine it’s too much different than Nevada. A couple weeks ago you published her essay on Gaslighting – what teachers in “turnaround” schools are experiencing. Here’s a follow-up parent perspective on the “turnaround” at her school: http://www.pegwithpen.com/2016/01/a-parent-speaks-up-at-turnaround-school.html
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This sounds amazingly like the infamous LAUSD “reconstitution” process that went on so-called low performing schools in Los Angeles. Full of sound and fury which ultimately signified and resulted in absolutely nothing.
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Turnarounds, reorganizations, whatever the shell-game players of so-called reform choose to call them at any given moment, are not even about data, since the choice of which data to look at and value is fundamentally a political decision.
The buzz word “data” is a mask for what this vicious process is really about: money and power, and the Overclass’ heedless appetite to accumulate both.
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I agree about the data-mongering. The idea of data-based decisionmaking allows the real reasons for making decisions to be masked.
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I’m not so sure it is even about the data. I think it is about business investment in tech first. The data (which we know is meaningless) is secondary.
They have succeeded pushing experienced teachers out the door. That saves money. It also helps break the old ways of thinking and brings in younger people with the new jargon. By thevtime these younger ones are in the vocation for 15-20 years, things will shove them out. The business gurus won’t be satisfied until the union voice is squelched and the teachers are paraprofessionals monitoring students on computers.
Gathering of inaccurate data is a ruse.
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Angie, you may be better than a sub even on your worst day, but having qualified teachers doesn’t fit the end game of making the schools increasingly worse until they are given over to for-profit charter operators.
My guess is that many of those involved in this process have no clue what improving schools would entail and what teaching lower-income kids in underfunded schools is like, and really don’t care to know the reality of it, because they have been told what to do and are doing it, period, unquestioningly, and without bothering to become informed. They can pretend that they are doing good and helping children by vilifying teachers.
I heard of teachers telling takeover interviewers that kids not doing homework is a problem, and being asked, then why are you still giving homework if it’s not working? (This was not kindergarten, by the way.) The implication was that these teachers should have found a better alternative to homework, I guess. Or something. Who knows what people who are ignorant of what the situation is like are thinking – or not thinking? Too bad, I guess, for the few kids who do homework and want to learn from it. And the inability of the system to address the needs of those students is one of the reasons that involved lower-income parents support a big charter movement.
All of this promotes union-busting, technology sales, and a for-profit charter takeover of the many needy schools, I would think. My guess is that your district will end up with a lot of for-profit charters and/or lower-income public schools operating by “teaching” with lots of technology programs run by corporate-trained technicians, unless there is public outcry against it. But Las Vegas parents are probably not the most involved in the country, relatively speaking.
My big question is, how do we inform the public? American journalism is almost dead.
Good luck, Angie, and keep us posted.
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I agree.
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I am a Clark County teacher, and we are going through “The Turnaround” process at our school also. I disagree with some of the things Ms. Sullivan states here. They are also looking at progress from when they came into the school the year before. If they feel the school has implemented things that are helpful in student’s successes, they move on. They also ask each teacher to describe the administration leadership, and ask teacher’s opinions on a variety of things that are happening at the school, and what has the school done to improve from the year before. What is wrong with looking at schools that are 1-2 star rated schools? I notice Ms. Sullivan fails to mention the 4-5 stars schools such as Twitchell and Vanderberg E.S. that do not require a visit because they are on their game always. During my interview I was not asked one question about standardized testing. I was asked to give my opinion about everything that is right with the school, and everything that is wrong with the school. Believe you me, there are many teachers that should be removed from these schools who are licensed, and do not care whatsoever. It is very disingenuous of Ms. Sullivan to think that the people coming to our schools are spying on us! My door is always open to anyone to come in and see that I am doing my job period! I have nothing to hide, and I am proud of my pedagogy skills, and my interaction with my great students. The gentleman that interviewed me came in for 10 minutes, while I was teaching, didn’t disturb the class and left. NO BIG DEAL! What is wrong with improving 1-2 star rated schools anyway? I welcome them in with open arms! This is the problem today with teachers like Ms. Sullivan, feeling mediocrity is normal and accepted! It is not and should never be! The students are the ones who ultimately suffer if people from our district do not make the necessary changes for the good. Again, I am a proud Title 1 teacher, and I have only taught in Title 1 schools in CCSD. I ask the Superintendent and the Turnaround staff to come often and change teacher’s mindsets, and these schools for the better of our student’s successes and futures!
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I guess your school is not getting “turn-arounded” to death. In Utah, the turn around schools are required to post exact lesson plans, down to the minute, of every class, every day, and then post them. If an observer walks in and you’re not exactly where you’re supposed to be at that exact moment, you get written up.
I have a problem with that. Don’t bring it on!
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It is interesting that because I do not want to be harrassed and degraded and union-busted at my workplace – you assume i do not do my job.
Union-busting is as old as time – and it looks like what you are saying. You must be related to the power that be that choose to spin their wheels trapping some poor soul in a room with me for a couple of answers.
I do not like being harrassed and I am infuriated. Mad. I keep discussing the situation with my family of lawyers.
I hate being bullied.
This is bullying.
I hate it and will not tolerate it.
Everyone needs to know what happened.
I do not need to be scared and abused every year to prove to a mysterious someone that I know how to teach kids.
Spread the word – if you come at me asking to see my data and threatening my career – you better have something more current than 2013 crap testing to prove I deserve interrogation for a couple of hours.
That is the irony. I have data. The turnaround process does not. Shame on them for this scam.
And if I ask you why the resources are not instead toward the school next door named after Martin Luther King which has no licensed staff – you better have an answer better than – because I said so.
Turnaround is a huge waste of resources. Huge.
You are a great example of why turnaround is a problem.
I expect you to carry your arrogant self over to the admin office and volunteer for turnaround. You deserve to teach with people like yourself – people who do not value school community or a workplace environment that is non-threatening.
Some thrive on abuse – That person would not be me.
This empire needs to be fully examined at the AB394 legislative hearings and the people in charge need to defend themselves – as they have demanded thousands of veteran teachers to do.
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To further the explanation of “Turnaround School” procedures, the turnaround staff were at our school last year too, and DID NOT put us in a turnaround status! They saw growth, and came back this year to see if things were implemented from last year to this year! I personally feel we will not be a “Turnaround School” next year either because of the hard work of the administration, as well as the teachers at our school this past year. The turnaround staff that came in were gracious, and respectful to me, to my fellow teachers and to our profession. If they deem our school a “turnaround school” for the next year, it will weed out those useless licensed teachers, who sit on their behinds, text all day, pass out worksheets, and who yell at their kids all day! They need to weed out those teachers who cannot make a deadline, who show up to work late, who ignore the students in front of them, and who have basically checked out and do not care anymore. I say throw the bums out!
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If you didn’t “need” to be “turned around,” then why would the turnaround staff come? That seems to be an awfully expensive waste.
And I’m appalled at your accusations about teachers. Are you at a charter school? It seems that you are, because you have obviously drunk the kool-aid that licensed teachers are “useless.”
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I expect you to volunteer your school.
Step up and demand your school be destroyed.
Demand your students lose their teachers – and welcome the substitutes.
Volunteer for upheaval and a huge waste of time and money.
Raise your hand to participate in union-busting.
Let the work of your hands be occupied with busy work and developmentally inappropriate micromanagement and destruction of tiny souls.
As for me and my house – I love my school, co-workers, and kids.
This is union-busting. And scabs like TFA, substitutes, and arrogant pompous know-it-alls are the ones who should hit the road.
Tell Jeffrey Geihs the micro-manager and master manipulator that real teachers are onto his false “data”.
The Department of Education and Jeffrey Geihs had no reason to interview anyone – no data.
Now we all know . . . this is all a lie. A huge fraud.
And Geih’s new test for African Americans is a cying shame.
O God hear the words of my mouth – let those who do not love children be removed so they will not attack women who teach children to read. These lies and frauds have to be stopped.
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Angie, I made a comment to you here at the bottom of the page, I thought, but apparently not, as it posted under Deb’s comment, just so you know.
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Angie Sullivan, I really respect your passion! I never want to see anyone lose their jobs…………..only the ones who checked out a long time ago, and who do not care anymore! I am a great teacher in a public school and care deeply about all students at my school. I hope they keep coming to keep lazy teachers in check. By the way, I never assumed you do not do your job! You are paranoid. There are teachers who need to be removed and replaced due to their ineptness and laziness. Unfortunately, the dregs are always at Title 1 schools. The 4-5 star schools would never hire them, and you know this to be a fact, so Title 1 schools are desperate to have a live body to fill a classroom. You must know this to be true, That is a huge problem to me!
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John,
If I may ask, what is your position, where do you teach and how many years have you taught, all together and at your current school?
TIA,
Duane
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“Data will only measure a small piece of learning.”
NO!, that data does not measure any piece of learning. Please show me* one valid “educational standard” that has a precise definition, agreed upon by the proper vetting authority and those using said standard. Also please show me* the measuring device and how it is calibrated to measure that standard and then show me* the margin of error in using that measuring device and how that device is certified to be within that margin of error to do so. Please show me* all of those fundamental characteristics needed for an educational standard to be measured by a certified measuring device and that the user of the device is certified in its usage.
————<<<<<<>>>>>>!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can only hear the chirping of the crickets and cicadas in my head that are due to nerve damage hearing loss but the ECHO of such noise is mighty loud here!
*Yep, I’m from the Show Me State so show me the proof!
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Respectfully Duane, I have never asked anyone on this blog or twitter for their information. I will tell you that I am a public school teacher teaching in a Title 1 school. I have only taught in Title 1 schools my whole career. My wife is also a Title 1 teacher who teaches in a different school than I. I feel it would be disingenuous for you to ask me for any more information than that. I sincerely hope you can respect my privacy as I respect yours.
I know data is used to determine 1-2 star failing schools also, but as you stated yourself “Data will only measure a small piece of learning.” Ms. Sullivan failed to add what I added regarding the turnaround team looking at all the angles, and not just data. I have a huge problem with long term subs, as well as inept teachers who don’t care anymore, and have checked out of teaching with their passion. These teachers do not care anymore, and are there for a paycheck, that’s all. Ms. Sullivan fails to recognize this phenomenon. Again, the 4-5 star schools have no problem in their schools as they weed out lazy and inept teachers who should resign, or retire. We at the Title 1 schools have some awesome teachers, and some very bad teachers also. I wish it wasn’t so, but it is! I also would like to add that I blame the some parents, some of the students, and some of the teachers as well as some administrators. No one is or should be immune from this 1-2 star debacle. It must be fixed. Chaparral High school in Las Vegas was taken over a few years ago, and thrived because of the turnaround philosophy. Will it work in all schools? Maybe, or maybe not, but the school district has an obligation to look into ways to brings low performing schools up. I told the turnaround staff in person and emailed them as a follow up that it is unfair to include long term sub’s work at these schools due to their inexperience. They appreciated my honesty with that. I praised my administration who have worked hard along side the teachers at my school in improving all avenues of pedagogy at the school, and there are vast improvements from last year to this year. The turnaround staff said so themselves.
Thank you for your time Duane.
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Be careful throwing rocks in your glass house. Any claiming to be “great” while others are “bad” makes me wonder – about the person making the claim. Part of my job is to help my co-workers not degrade them. It should be yours too.
We all know someone who thinks we do NOT do our job. In fact, good teachers are often “not liked” but still great at what they do. Unfortunately, much of what teachers do is political and subjective. Basically parents, students, and co-workers determine who they “like” and probably have a reasonable sounding reason to do so – unfair or not.
Randomly picking schools to interview is subjective too. And claiming it is based on data – when there is none – is a sure sign of subjectivity. That is not based on “data” – that is based on some other variabke like personality.
If the Nevada State School Board actually turned around according to scores – they would have to tangle with almost every small school in Nevada rural towns. Since that is not politically viable, they skip around the list and enny meeny mino mo – I have to interview.
Im tired of “data” which is invalid or non-existent being used as a weapon. Especialy when primarily white schools get a pass while scholls with brown kids get decimated.
Human beings cannot be measured with numbers. Nice try crazytown. We will look back on this sad chapter of our American history and wonder at the stupidity. Assessments have always had a limited ability – each one will measure one thing at a time. Since being a literate human is multi-dimensional this linear thinking will never be proof positive. We used to study assessment theory when we got a degree in education. The neo-liberals have thrown all that research based best practice out the window.
Im tired of unfair the witch hunts that make teachers line up in degrading ways to be “measured”.
This due process union busting and harrassing scare tactic needs to be stopped. What other profession would put up with a two hour interrogation – based on something a child did in 2013? Nobody should put up with this garbage. Nobody.
I hope those in charge of this scam – get submitted to the same sort of biased scrutiny in their work.
When I start getting the feeling that good people need to be hurt – for the good of the machine. I start wondering if the main purpose of public schools will be destroyed.
This is not fair. This will not improve education. And this only hurts teachers and the kids they teach to read.
Everybody in Nevada should be mad as hell. We have put up with these stuoid reformers and data driven maniacs for a decade. Our schools are getting worse and worse. Ever occur to anyone in power to use the data that financially bankrupts our schools to determine these reforms are a scam.
It is teachers who are educated and prepared who make the difference.
Real teachers need to take back the schools.
Crazytown reformers and privatizers have got to go.
And these harrassing interrogations have got to stop.
If you could never tell – I am furious.
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I know your are furious Angie, and I do understand. I respect that, and again, if you or anyone else thinks it’s alright to be a 1-2 star school for years with no improvement is not acceptable in my view. You stated that “Be careful throwing rocks in your glass house. Any claiming to be “great” while others are “bad” makes me wonder – about the person making the claim.” I know you are saying this about me. It is your opinion to say that I am a great teacher because I bring it every day, and I am exhausted everyday when I leave my classroom. If you do not feel that you are great…..well that is your own opinion of yourself. I have confidence in my skills as a human being, and in my pedagogy. If you feel there are NOT bad licensed teachers in Title 1 schools respectfully, you are delusional. Again the 4-5 star schools would never allow BAD teachers teach at their schools, hence they are very successful. They are also successful for other variety of reasons also, due to better neighborhoods etc. That is another debate entirely. Again, there are licensed teachers that have checked out at my school and I am sure you have some at your school too. Why can’t we be honest with that? As I have said before there is enough blame to go around to every sector of the school system, from bad parenting to students who do not care, to administrators who keep hiring inept lazy teachers because they are desperate, to administrators on a which hunt, to teachers who use all their sick days, never show up on time for required meetings, never meet their deadlines on time etc.
Again, CCSD are looking for more than just data in the turnaround process, you will not agree to that fact. Anyway, good for you to have that kind of passion. I admire that very much. I am just being honest by saying what I see and hear. I will forever teach in Title 1 schools and do the best I can every day to make a difference for these kids.
Take care.
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My school was two star because the test did not run.
The star system is also a fraud.
The data is invalid because the testing never occurred.
The students who particpated in 2013 – are now in Junior High. Yet I have to interview in January 2016? What a fiasco.
And in a district with 30,000 long term substitutes in minority schools. And 10,000 students barely prepared TFAs and ARLs “teaching” in minority schools. Targeting veteran teachers because of a random selection is intolerable.
The LAST thing anyone should be doing is “turning around” a school like mine. This grabbing turnaround empire has tentacles crepping around under the guise of data that does not exist.
And witch hunters claiming to “know every bad teacher” should stand up and do something in your own destructive realm rather than approve of my unfair bludgeoning. Im not putting up with harrassment because of a claim there is a bad teacher out there. Hint: Adminstrators are not doing their job if such a person exists.
And by the way . . . since only a couple of charters are making good . . . maybe the 36 charters could have been interviewed instead for “turnaround”. Wait – I forget. Those schools are filled with white kids. And turnaround is for people who teach brown people.
I am furious.
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Thank you for clearing up any and all questions about the ‘turnaround’ experience…..Susan Copeland….thank you for directing me to this information!!!!
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