The superintendents association of Nassau County (Long Island), Néw York, have called on the state to stop evaluating teachers by test scores. Nassau County has some of the state’s most successful schools.
“They wrote that they understand the need for a system that ensures highly effective instruction, but said “the exaggerated use of student test data” undermines that goal. The letter cited position papers by the American Educational Research Association and the American Statistical Association that question such use of student test data.
“Equally flawed, they said, has been the attempt to devise a rating system for the vast majority of educators who teach subjects or grade levels not associated with the state exams in English language arts and math given to students in grades three through eight.”
The full text of the document is included in the link.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
“The End” (or at least the beginning thereof) — after the Jim Morrison song
This is the end, Reformer friend
This is the end, of test and VAM, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
They’ll never bite into our cowpies, again
Can you picture what will be, so limitle$$ and free
Desperately in need, of some billionaire’s hand
In a desperate land
Lost in a DOE wilderness of brain
And all the policies are insane, all the policies are insane
Waiting for the rain in Spain, yeah
There’s danger on the edge of town
Ride the King’s VAMway, baby
Weird scenes inside the Cuomo mind
Ride the VAMway west, baby
Ride the snake, ride the snake
To the lake, the Cuomo lake, baby
The snake is long, 3000 miles
Ride the snake, he’s old, and his skin is cold
The Test is the best, the Test is the best
Get here, and we’ll do the rest
The Magic Bus is callin’ us, the Magic Bus is callin’ us
Driver, where you takin us?
The VAMmer awoke before dawn, he put his stats on
He took a farce from the cattle modelry
And he walked on down the hall
He went into the room where the teacher taught, and, then he
Paid a visit to another, and then he
He walked on down the hall, and
And he came to a door, and he looked inside
“Teacher?”
“Yes Andrew”
“I want to VAM you”
C’mon baby, give a test for us
C’mon baby, give a test for us
C’mon baby, give a test for us
And meet me at the back of the Magic Bus
Doin’ a VAM, on a magic bus
Doin’ a VAM, c’mon, yeah
VAM, VAM, VAM, VAM, VAM
This is the end, Reformer friend
This is the end, of test and VAM, the end
It hurts to set VAM free
But they’ll never follow me
The end of testing and DAM lies
The end of Pearson spies
This is the end
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I love the smell of Reform in the morning. It smells like… profits…
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I’m sure this letter will have an impact on policy.
(sarcasm)
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NYSTEACHER,
It might have an impact on policy. If more and more superintendents speak out, it WILL have an impact on policy. The leaders of the education committees in the Legislature are from Nassau County. How can they hear the superintendents from their own district?
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Its one more brick in the wall of resistance. The political winds on this issue are shifting. Cuomo has two choices: 1) Maintain the ridiculous and unsupported demand for his 50-50 APPR and be politically crushed under the weight of 500,000 opt outs in April, or 2) Walk back the policy in a way that help save face and give him a chance at re-election.
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Choose door #1.
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If Cuomo does not back away from his misguided evaluation system, the Lederman lawsuit will be the tip of the iceberg.
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“Nassau County has some of the state’s most successful schools.”
Nassau County has the state’s—and nation’s—most segregated, balkanized, and fragmented schools, too.
“Although Long Island housing segregation is troubling, school segregation in Nassau and Suffolk Counties is even more stark, due principally to the large number of school districts, the small size of many school districts, and the district fragmentation that results. Indeed, one recent study indicates that school districts on Long Island are the most fragmented of any metropolitan area in the U.S. Supporting this, another study using data from the 1990s indicated that of all U.S. metropolitan areas, Long Island schools were among the top three in terms of the percent of school segregation that existed between (versus within) school districts.”
Click to access inter-intra-district-segregation-report.pdf
We know where the Nassau County Council of School Superintendents stands on testing and evaluation. Have they written any letters to the governor with their proposal for remediating (via consolidation or inter-district enrollment) the appalling state of segregation between their districts’ schools?
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Tim, New York state may be the most segregated state in the nation. Do you have some proposals to fix it? What is Governor Cuomo doing? Should the superintendents remain silent because their districts reflect unfair housing practices of the past?
My hunch is that you are using this issue to belittle their resistance to high-stakes testing.
If you are serious, come up with policies. Start criticizing the hyper segregation in charter schools. Charters are even more segregated than public schools in New York state.
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The solutions are right there in my first comment–inter-district enrollment and consolidation. Rockville Centre and Malverne are excellent candidates for consolidation, for example.
Charter schools worsen segregation only if they are drawing children from better-integrated schools. You and I both know that this isn’t the case in New York City or State. And sadly what segregates Long Island isn’t just the past. All of the factors–redlining, steering, mortgage discrimination, zoning laws, white flight, and intimidation by private citizens and the police–are still ongoing right now.
Unfortunately our elected officials are MIA on this issue, Cuomo included. I will give Long Island legislators credit for their deep understanding of their constituents’ priorities–consolidation and inter-district enrollment would likely lead to protests that would make Louise Day Hicks look accommodating by comparison. But it is not only the right and legal thing to do; it is also the only intervention that is proven to work at scale.
Thought leaders such as yourself have a profound influence on the conversation. When you say that some of Nassau’s schools are great, you should also note that sorting and separating play an enormous role in these outcomes.
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Minority parents don’t want their kids bused to all white, affluent school districts. They want the same quality of opportunities, the same quality of infrastructure, the same quality of programming, the same quality of funding – that’s all.
You insist on making segregation an issue.
No more smokescreens, please.
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Fortunately, Nassau’s density and stark side-by-side segregation mean there are many adjacent district pairs, triads, etc, where the impact on transportation would be minimal.
I think you vastly underestimate the number of families who know that “separate but equal” isn’t only illegal, but doesn’t work in practice.
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I don’t know how you acquired your knowledge of what “minority parents” want, but a lifetime of experience has taught me that non-minority parents almost always view segregation as much less of an issue than they would have others believe.
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dianeravitch and NYS Teacher: quite so.
Interesting that the most recycled argument against those for a “better education for all” is that we supposedly use the “poverty excuse” to supposedly avoid doing supposedly really important things like close the supposedly all-deciding test score gap—
Yet when it comes to defending corporate education reform it turns out that any and every issue that can deflect from the misuses and abuses of standardized tests is totally legit.
Yeah, “totally legit”—supposedly.
To paraphrase a paraphrase of the rheephormista NJ Comm. of Ed: the purveyors of self-proclaimed “education reform” are not just doubling down on whatevers.
They’re doubling down on “supposedlys.”
Today, tomorrow, forever, adhering like super glue to Marxist fundamentals:
“The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you’ve got it made.”
Groucho would be so so proud.
😎
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I think there is some merit in what Tim is saying. I worked in a diverse, integrated school district in New York for many years, and I think it was ideal on many levels. All the students got to mix with different kinds of people, and the outcomes were much better for the poor students that attended adequately funded schools. Most of the students were better people, and they got a sound, comprehensive education as a result of their experiences in the school district.
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I strongly believe in integrated schools. Tim, I think, uses the issue rhetorically. He defends totally segregated charter schools. If you ever see a comment from him that does not excuse the methods of charters, let me know. I try to read every comment, but have never seen one from Tim that is not intended to excuse or defend charters in general, Eva in particular
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But what methods would you propose to desegregate district schools?
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Diane, I’ve left at least a half dozen comments on your site stating my belief that Success should not receive a single new charter or a renewal of an existing charter unless they make all attrited seats available to new applicants in all grades.
I think that for-profit chartering and management should be illegal in all states as it is in New York; that only a very small number of authorizers should be allowed to issue charters; and that charters should be required to follow the same rigorous annual financial audits that we have here.
You can consider this comment a blanket condemnation of the abuses that occur in other states that don’t have the same safeguards as New York. As for segregation, take it up with Iris Rotberg. Charters drawing students from hypersegregated district schools are not making anything worse.
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Tim, charters are more segregated than the districts in which they are located. Check it out with Gary Orfield at UCLA Civil Rights Project. I admire your tenacity in defending Eva and charters on this blog.
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District schools are probably more segregated than the district in which they’re located, too. I know this is true of the Bronx.
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Sorry, of the Bronx as a whole. I wouldn’t be surprised if it were true of most districts within the Bronx, too.
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Confirmed. Based on the most recent “demographic snapshot” published by the DOE, and using the percentage of Black and Latino students as the benchmark of segregation, the vast majority of district schools in the Bronx are more segregated than the district in which they’re located.
Total district schools in the Bronx: 372.
Here are the *aggregate* percentages of Black and Latino students in each of Districts 7 through 12:
* District 7 = 96.5%
* District 8 = 87%
* District 9 = 96.6%
* District 10 = 85.1%
* District 11 = 82.6%
* District 12 = 94.7%
30 of the 45 district schools in District 7 have a higher percentage of Black and Latino students than the district as a whole.
45 of the 59 district schools in District 8 have a higher percentage of Black and Latino students than the district as a whole.
51 of the 73 district schools in District 9 have a higher percentage of Black and Latino students than the district as a whole.
73 of the 86 district schools in District 10 have a higher percentage of Black and Latino students than the district as a whole.
44 of the 63 district schools in District 11 have a higher percentage of Black and Latino students than the district as a whole.
40 of the 52 district schools in District 12 have a higher percentage of Black and Latino students than the district as a whole.
In all, 283 of the 379 district schools in the Bronx, or 75%, are more segregated than the school district in which they’re located.
This is *not* including the Bronx High School of Science, or any other schools that are arguably segregated in the *other* direction — i.e., mainly white and Asian students and relatively few Black and Latino students.
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FLERP, do the same analysis for the charter schools in the Bronx.
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Boy, this is a thankless job.
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46 of the 51 charter schools in the Bronx are more segregated than the district in which they’re located.
* District 7: 15 out of 18
* District 8: 10 out of 10
* District 9: 8 out of 9
* District 10: 4 out of 4
* District 11: 5 out of 5.
* District 12: 4 out of 5.
In conclusion:
Approximately 90% of the students in the Bronx overall are Black or Latino.
Approximately 75% of the public schools in the Bronx are even more segregated than the district in which they are located.
Approximately 90% of the charter schools in the Bronx are even more segregated than the district in which they are located.
Thus, charter schools in the Bronx exceed the level of segregation in the district in which they are located by a higher rate than the public schools in the Bronx exceed the level of segregation in same district.
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I appreciate all the legwork, but this still doesn’t tell us whether NYC charters, which collectively serve a student population that is 93% black and Latino and 80% FRPL-eligible, are increasing segregation.
To make that determination, at least at the elementary school level, we would need to know the demographic composition of the charter-going students’ zoned district schools. I would expect that the vast majority of black and Latino charter students are drawn from hypersegregated district schools.
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“this still doesn’t tell us whether NYC charters, which collectively serve a student population that is 93% black and Latino and 80% FRPL-eligible, are increasing segregation.”
That’s true. Sticking with the Bronx as an example, there are a very large number of hyper-segregated schools that are not only more segregated than the district in which they’re located, but are also as or more segregated than the charter schools in the same district. If the charter schools are drawing mainly from the more segregated public schools in the district, then they wouldn’t be “increasing segregation” at all (and in fact might arguably even be “decreasing segregation” in the district).
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“Nassau County has some of the state’s most successful schools.”
Nassau County has the state’s—and nation’s—most segregated, balkanized, and fragmented schools, too”
Thank you for having the courage to state this. Nassau has “good schools” because it also has “wealthy communities” and parental wealth is the #1 determinant of student success. NOT the “teachers,” not the “Superintendants.”
There are 127 districts on Long Island, each with a Superintendent who will retire with a $300,000 a year pension and lifetime health insurance. The pensions are funded through the property tax, which means the Island’s poorest, who can’t fund their own pensions or pay for their health care, support these people.
The 127 districts are their for a reason: these are economic gulags designed to keep the poor in lousy districts and maintained to keep property values high for the wealthy and White.
The school districts are the chief enabler of segregation. Pity those who claim the “progressive” mantle are themselves the biggest obstructions to true social justice.
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BLUEMAX, criticize them if you wish, but I want their political clout opposing New York’s insane testing and teacher evaluation policies.
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These superintendents have it in their power to truly lead by refusing to take part in the current APPR system. Districts have been evaluating teachers just fine before that inane system. If these supes join together and tell the state, no we are not participating in TOTALLY UNETHICAL system of evaluation, they’d be heard all the more and the cause of public education further pulled out of the mire of the current educational malpractices in place.
The question is: Will they refuse to participate?
Unfortunately I’m 99.99% sure that they will continue to participate because they lack the ethical cojones to do otherwise. Hell, they might “lose their jobs”.
“Should we therefore forgo our self-interest? Of course not. But it [self-interest] must be subordinate to justice, not the other way around. . . . To take advantage of a child’s naivete. . . in order to extract from them something [test scores, personal information] that is contrary to their interests, or intentions, without their knowledge [or consent of parents] or through coercion [state mandated testing], is always and everywhere unjust even if in some places and under certain circumstances it is not illegal. . . . Justice is superior to and more valuable than well-being or efficiency; it cannot be sacrificed to them, not even for the happiness of the greatest number [quoting Rawls]. To what could justice legitimately be sacrificed, since without justice there would be no legitimacy or illegitimacy? And in the name of what, since without justice even humanity, happiness and love could have no absolute value?. . . Without justice, values would be nothing more than (self) interests or motives; they would cease to be values or would become values without worth.”—Comte-Sponville [my additions]
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Duane,
I agree that it would make a vastly bigger statement to refuse to administer the test, but I can understand why that hasn’t happened. It would be professional suicide unless dozens or hundreds of other districts joined in.
What disturbs me is that the districts with high opt-out rates are still engaging in huge amounts of test prep. That is something entirely under district control, and doing so completely undermines the credibility of their arguments. If schools have barely any influence on scores, then why are they prepping so much, even kids who ultimately will opt out?
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“It would be professional suicide. . .” Yes, I understand but do not condone those who choose expediency over justice. Some of us have chosen to challenge these practices and have paid heavily in salary lost (due to having to switch to another district), emotional distress and the disdain we have received from our fellow teachers, even though in private they will tell us that we are correct-just stupid for saying the emperor has no clothes out loud.
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Tim
How do you know the degree to which schools here in NYS are engaging in ‘test-prep’?
Sound like an unsupported assumption. Or at the very least a broad-brush generalization. The new, CC approach is all about evidence based conclusions, not hunches or feelings.
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This is really important. My opposition to test-based teacher evaluations is based almost entirely on my assumption that my kids spent a ridiculous amount time in school on test prep, and that the evaluation system is the cause. If my assumption about how much test prep they’re doing is incorrect, please let me know immediately and I’ll revise my position.
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A quick glance at the various recent statements and position papers of organizations like NYSAPE and Change the Stakes demonstrates that test prep is still the norm in New York State. A school that is at the epicenter of the small opt-out movement in New York City, the Brooklyn New School, had only 5% of its grade 3-5 student population take the test. Yet “[b]eginning in third grade, all children at BNS learn study skills, practice how to answer test questions, and become familiar with testing formats and expectations.”
If you are aware that teachers and schools are responsible only for 1-14% of a student’s relative performance on a standardized test, and if 95% of your students are opting out anyway, then why in the world are you spending any time on test prep? It is a bizarre contradiction.
What is your district’s policy on test prep for elementary- and middle-school students?
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Tim: The bizarre contradiction of test prep is that a lack of adequate performance on a standardized tests can upend a teacher’s career. No matter how a teacher sees the issue, some administrators are requiring a certain amount of time on test prep. This is a race to the bottom. Test scores do not determine the sum of a student’s or teacher’s worth; they are a snapshot. When we attach so many punitive consequences to the tests and some nonsensical algorithm, we create a toxic environment for students, schools and teachers. There are many other ways to demonstrate mastery of a subject.
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Much of what seems to be test prep, is in fact teachers simply following the very prescriptive Common Core standards. They were written not just as educational targets or goals but are riddled with “how to” requirements. Close reading and multiplication arrays are just two examples. Getting the right in answer in math is not enough under the CC standards, students must arrive at their answers using the often convoluted methods demanded in the standards. That’s why they more closely resemble a curriculum as opposed to traditional standards.
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In New York State the Board of Regents are (supposedly) responsible for the general supervision of all educational activities within the State. I find it interesting that they were not even CC’ed in the letter!
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Reblogged this on David R. Taylor-Thoughts on Education.
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Tim at his best: deflect and obfuscate!
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