Forget the headline, the story here is that only 9 students applied to join TFA at Swarthmore, and only 5 actually enrolled. More important, Swarthmore students understand that TFA is not a social mission, but displaces experienced local teachers.
This is one student that did not sign up:
“Yet despite this high praise, not all students feel as warmly about TFA as the organization apparently does about them. Joy Martínez ’16, an educational studies major currently involved in student teaching for her teaching certification, expressed deep concerns about the teaching model of Teach for America.
“My initial response with those issues of turnover rates… is that it can be damaging to the students, and it’s damaging to the whole view of teachers — ‘if you can’t do, teach’, or ‘it’s a placeholder’, or ‘it’s a resumé builder,’” she said. “I think some people who are involved in education policy or with Teach for America may say, ‘well we’re doing something, and this is fine.’ But it’s fulfilling some kind of temporary need, it’s not the solution. It’s the band-aid, it’s not the corrective surgery that the education system needs.”
“In particular, Martínez expressed the sentiment that the short tenure of TFA teachers undermines important social and cultural functions of schools in America.
“There is damage that is done, I think, by having a high turnover rate.” she said. “A school is a place in our country and our society where friendships and relationships and family and community is formed… In areas that don’t have many communal spaces, it becomes more and more imperative for there to be teachers there to help facilitate those relationships, and to have student clubs, and to have their seventh grade students go back to the elementary school and do a Shakespeare performance. Things like that, those relationships that schools so naturally facilitate, that just doesn’t happen within a system like Teach for America.”

From what I gather, the main issue is that there is such a turnover of teachers. So, if the teachers stay longer, (how much is always an interesting number), will TFA then be acceptable?
The comment, “It’s the band-aid, it’s not the corrective surgery that the education system needs…” just begs the questions, “What do YOU think is wrong with the patient? WHAT do you suggest that needs done with the corrective surgery?
Many complain, but to few try to come up with WORKABLE solutions. But what do I know? I am not a teacher…
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It’s cute how you think these smart-alecky points haven’t already been asked and answered. But anyway:
1. The issues with TfA go well beyond the turnover issue. 5 weeks of training, by-passing traditionally trained, certified teachers, using idealistic young TfAer as a proxy to fight the privatization war – those things are worse.
2. Do you realize how many actually certified, veteran teachers have lost their jobs thanks to “reform”? 7,000 in New Orleans alone, just in the immediate aftermath of Katrina. Why not hire some of them back?
3. First, we don’t even agree that public education is a “patient” – public education in most places was doing just fine, at least before the rephormers attacked it. Proper treatment for an assault victim is to treat and bandage the wounds. Not insulin shock therapy. In fact, if insulin shock therapy is the only treatment option, I’d wager most assault victims would prefer no treatment at all.
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If they have been asked ans answered, forgive me for not realizing that. I am smart, but even I have limits to my knowledge base.
I did not place thee article, I read it. And, as with so many, there is criticism, but no solution.
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The solution is to stop causing the harm in the first place.
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To add onto Dienne’s points:
4. Taxpayers are actually paying more for TFA teachers. Each district needs to pay an additional fee for each TFA teacher it provides. The fee varies based on what the district has negotiated, but the fee is usually between two and five thousand dollars annually for each new recruit. The fee pays for a teacher who will most likely not stay in teaching. And if the recruit leaves, the fee is not refundable and the district or charter is left in an even worse position. This fee is in addition to the teacher pay that the recruit will receive and the federal funding to pay for their college that has gone into the program in the first place. It is a bad investment all around.
5. TFA contracts with districts and charters to provide a certain set of teachers every year. To fulfill the contract, probationary teachers–even if they were performing acceptably/proficiently, they are let go to make room for the projected TFA recruits. Because traditionally trained teachers are more likely to stay teachers (than TFAers), this is also a bad investment for schools.
6. TFA actually does nothing to solve the teacher shortage problem in inner cities. In fact, it probably helps cement the cycle of revolving new and unprepared teachers because it provides incentives for their recruits to leave the profession and start the whole cycle in the inner city over again after two years. There is ample evidence that the whole situation is worse after a district begins working with TFA, because it requires districts to break the cycle and go through the hiring process again on an individual level. This is why many people compare TFA to Band-Aids. But I would actually call them platinum Ban-Aids: temporary and easy but expensive replacements.
7. TFA numbers of those who stay in teaching are completely misleading. They do not add in the number who leave before their time limit. And they count the recruits who are no longer teaching but are now principals, or people who work with textbook companies or the like. This means that the true number is even worse than the already low number that is much lower than traditional trained teachers. That’s pretty bleak and it is certainly not a good investment.
8. There has been much made of the limited evidence that TFA math teachers perform better than non-TFA math teachers. But hardly anyone looks at what that same limited evidence says about how well they do with English Language Arts or other subjects. Even TFA’s own research has shown that TFA recruits do no better than traditionally trained new teachers in these other subjects. That’s hardly a reason to pay the extra money for TFA recruits, especially in non-math subjects areas where the vast majority of TFA slots are filled. Therefore, it might be a good investment for open math slots, but it certainly isn’t a good investment for all the other ones.
There are probably “fixes” for TFA, like extending the required years to five and doing away with contracts and finder fees that really only benefit TFA–many critics have already addressed this–but for me, I find that TFA needs to go back to working on a smaller level and we should probably be spending our money more effectively for teacher retention and recruitment.
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Who gets the additional money that has to be paid for TFA teachers?
Where does that money go, and why is it required? Who requires
it?
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The finder’s fee goes to the TFA organization itself, and it pays for the alums who work at the recruitment offices and the “alums” who help “train” TFA over the summer and throughout the two years.
My school paid a little over 4K for each of the 5 teachers we hired in 2012. Three left before the year ended, TFA did not have replacements so those positions were filled the Ol’ fashioned way. A little over 12K was lost to the TFA void.
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One thing you might want to do is go to Diane’s latest post (https://dianeravitch.net/2015/10/26/my-speech-at-wellesley-college/#like-44008) and follow her link to, yes, her speech at Wellesley College.
You might also want to check out many of her older posts, read the comments, and follow the various links that are provided.
Sure, there is a lot of criticism of TFA, the privatization of public schools, the over-use and misuse of standardized testing, etc, but there are also many thoughts about what is wrong with the “patient” and how we might begin to improve public schools.
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TFA IS NEVER ACCEPTABLE. NEVER. If there ever was a need, there is no longer a need, except that void which has been created by TFA and the reformers, to perpetuate utilization of TFA. What don’t you get Shelly?
Do you think there could be the same model of Doctors for America? Lawyers for America? Do you think some snot-nose obnoxious organization can to do those professions what TFA has done to education? Do you NOT SEE the dollars being grifted by these thieving grifters?
There are students of education in college who are being trained to teach, and TFA comes in and takes their place in schools instead. Is that right? Would you want your children taught by TFA? I sure would not.
Thank GOD you’re not a teacher. Keep drinking the koolaid, Michelle. Keep mixing the Koolaid I mean, Michelle.
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Schellekens, High turnover is symptomatic of underlying issues. In TFA’S case, poor preparation coupled with a short-timer attitude going in.
The problem is not that you are not a teacher. The problem is that you, and the rest of the Reformers, do not listen to teachers.
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Something tells me that I am not the only non-teacher on this list.
I have worked for two school districts since I moved to this country twenty years ago. I SEE the daily struggle teachers go through.
From a first hand perspective I see where some if the problems come from: teachers who let themselves be blinded by new silver bullets handed out by vendors. I see teachers who just go through the motions of teaching, and teachers who give their all, and then some.
But I also believe in facts and evidence. What I see on this blog from time to time is more sensationalistic then factual. Like today: “7000 teachers fired after Katrina. But there were only 4000 teachers employed!
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Well I see you didn’t bother to read the article I posted, Rudy. Typical – blind yourself to anything that disagrees with your preconceived notions.
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Actually, I did read the article in the lawsuit. But there is a discrepancy between the numbers.
I’m missing 3,000 teachers somewhere in the count.
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Click to access katrina-book.final_.CIpageSmaller.pdf
A report from Tulane University. Surely this is fake, right?
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Rudy,
Please read Mercedes Schneider’s many posts (deutsch29) on the Cowen Institute at Tulane. It is part of the cabal that has touted the “success” of New Orleans and has discounted contrary statistics and data from reputable scholars as well as Louisiana State Department of Education reports.
You are not especially well read on this subject. I suggest you read Andrea Gabor’s recent article about New Orleans that appeared in the New York Times and was reposted on this blog.
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I am really not interested in what else they stand for. Are their statistics re. teachers/students in 2004 and 2006 correct or not?
That is something that has nothing to do with whatever viewpoint they hold.
Their numbers tally with others, as well…
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Rudy,
Independent scholars–ie, not paid by Gates, Walton, or Broad–have concluded that New Orleans has different students pre- and post-Katrina and is a low-performing district in a low-performing state
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Well, you couldn’t possibly be wrong, so it must be the court, I guess.
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that’s not what begging the question is
Per-pupil spending needs to be doubled or tripled. Education is not a high-efficiency process that scales infinitely with the same or similar quality of outcomes. The problem is that we can’t afford that, but that’s “we” in the abstract. There is a segment of the population in the US that could make this happen and simply doesn’t want to.
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According the quotes in the article, the one speaking referred to the need for “Surgery…” so there is a diagnosis. Since the diagnosis is not shared, my question was logical.
As far as losing teachers in New Orleans after Katrina: How much of the population returned to the city, compared with the level before the storm? What’s the city’s population?
You said, “2. Do you realize how many actually certified, veteran teachers have lost their jobs thanks to “reform”? 7,000 in New Orleans alone, just in the immediate aftermath of Katrina. Why not hire some of them back?”
_ Before: about 484,000 people.
_ After: about 360,400 people.
School enrollment k12
2004 – 64,920
2006 – 25,651
—
And I really must admonish you. This new math? It does not work. How can you lose 7,00 teachers in the aftermath of Katrina, when you had less than 4,000 before the storm???
When you have 64,920 students in 2004, and 25,651 in 2006, of course you lose teacher positions! But that had nothing to do with charter schools!
And now you know why I take issue with such sweeping generalizations: They are not based on factual data.
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http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2014/01/7000_new_orleans_teachers_laid.html
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Rudy, all the Nola teachers were fired after Katrina. No evaluations, no hearings. But you think that’s ok?
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Good question, Diane. Thank you again.
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The fairness of the letting go was not the issue. There was a major discrepancy between actual number of teachers sent off and the actual number of teachers working.
And no, letting people go without explanation is never good – unions or no unions.
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Rudy – what part of this is unclear to you: “In a lawsuit that some say could bankrupt the Orleans Parish public school system, an appeals court has decided that the School Board wrongly terminated more than 7,000 teachers after Hurricane Katrina.”? From the article I linked above. Or are you saying that article is lying?
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The State of
Public Education
in New Orleans
Five Years After Hurricane Katrina
The Scott S. Cowen Institute
for Public Education Initiatives
at Tulane University
The Cowen Institute is an action-oriented think tank
that informs and advances solutions – through policies,
programs, and partnerships – to eliminate the challenges
impeding the success of K-12 education in New
Orleans and beyond. It also serves as a clearinghouse for
K-12 public schools in New Orleans to directly access
the myriad of experts and resources available at Tulane
University.
See page 6 and 13.
There, made it easy for you. They are pictures…
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Shelly, Shelly, Shelly…Michelle.
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I’d like to admonish you. Your argument hinges on a rather chilling mathematics… that being whether 4000 or 7000 teachers were fired without due process in New Orleans. That kind of numbers game is a diversion and brings to mind other deniers that need not be mentioned here. I’m tempted to just go with the possibility that you are right. Let’s ask the question then: Is 4000 versus 7000 a game changer for you?
Are you also aware that one significant reason why the population remained lower was that low income housing was not rebuilt and that the many residents from poorest sector of the population were unable to return once the city fathers determined that a disaster is a good time to gentrify a community?
Oh.. but however it happened… the population did decrease after Katrina. That would be an effective argument if they hired back only the number of teachers they needed from the local population. But, they didn’t do that. EVERY single teacher was fired without due process and regardless of merit. Those jobs were given to young predominately white TFA kids from out of town who came in and engaged in what can only be described as carpetbagging.
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When numbers are exaggerated, integrity gets lost. And that’s what bothered me with the report on “black holes…”
When someone’s name is mentioned in what is a very negative connection, guilt by association is assumed by many readers.
Even though there was no indication that charter schools from Arkansas did anything wrong with their funding, being named in the report creates wrong impressions.
But hey, I’m neither a teacher nor the son of a teacher…
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Nothing in this thread, so far, vitiates what was stated by Ms. Martínez in the posting.
😎
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It reads like a mild love letter to TFA, not against TFA. I can NEVER FORGET the damage TFA has done, is doing, to children, districts, neighborhoods, and teachers who actually have degrees in education, are certified, and want to teach. Never forget howTFA assisted in the characterization of New Orleans; never forget the schools TFA assisted in shutting to make way for Kopp’s husband’s KIPP charters, and the whole charter network that sprung from, and feeds from, TFA.
Novice teachers cannot get jobs because districts have partnered with more expensive, temporary, TFA scabs. TFA, when the government shut down, was gifted more of my tax dollars. Never forget it.
TFA should not be allowed to embed itself into college campuses. I know that for some of these kids, the lure of having their student debt paid, rent paid, perks, etc., weekend certifications and masters degrees, its too hard to resist. They should, however, by now, know better.
Wendy and her ilk are elitist thieving grifters, and I will never forget it.
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charterization – not characterization…in New Orleans.
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Agreed, KrazyTA. Ms. Martinez also brings up another point regarding the consideration of proposing a solution for our school systems in the original article:
“I wish that they would work with other groups to say ‘there’s a larger issue at hand in America and our public school systems. And it has to do with issues of race and gender and socioeconomic status’… What I haven’t seen from Teach for America when I’ve been researching and looking into it is an effort to really help those schools themselves and those school systems and those communities, and to use the culture, language and community that are already there, and build up on that..”
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Looks like they are getting aware of TFA’s problem.
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TFK started out as a personal vanity project and moneymaking scheme for a spoiled Princeton brat (forgive the redundancy) and “bloomed” into a PAC for “reform”.
The irony is that TFA claims they take the best and brightest, who apparently are not bright enough to see what TFA is about.
“TFK”
Teach for Kopp
For Wendy’s pay
Yearly crop
400K
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They do take “the best and brightest,” but it’s in the sense that David Halberstam originally meant it: ironically, and in reference to clueless elites that create catastrophe wherever they go, because of their arrogance, deceptiveness (including self-deception), condescension and reflexively confusing their own personal and class interests with those of the public at large.
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After reading a magazine interview with a woman who identified herself as a former TFA State Chair, from the Carolina’s (“Kickstarting Creativity”, by Betsa March, in the Miamian this year), an impression about the TFA organization network of leaders, solidified for me.
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