Stephen Dyer, policy analyst in Ohio, went to the Cleveland Club to hear Macke Raymond explain her Ohio charter study.
He came expecting her
to address the obvious issues:
“How only in Cleveland does it appear that Ohio’s charter school sector is providing meaningful, positive benefits to kids. Or how CREDO’s methodology works (averaging kids in traditional public school buildings and comparing these “virtual” kids’ performance with real charter kids). Or how Ohio’s charter school sector has been making very minimal improvements over the years. Or that the state’s charter reform initiatives over the last few years haven’t had much impact on charter school performance. Or that Cleveland charters are doing a good job educating poor, minority kids. Or that 93% of Ohio charter schools’ proficiency scores are below the 50th percentile in the state. Or that 44% of charter school kids are seeing low growth and performance.”
But towards the end of her talk, she dropped a bombshell when she said that education “is the only industry/sector where the market mechanism just doesn’t work….”
Dyer wrote:
“Considering that the pro-market reform Thomas B. Fordham Foundation paid for this study and Raymond works at the Hoover Institution at Stanford — a free market bastion, I was frankly floored, as were most of the folks at my table.
“For years, we’ve been told that the free market will help education improve. As long as parents can choose to send their kids to different schools, like cars or any other commodity, the best schools will draw kids and the worst will go away. The experience in Ohio is the opposite. The worst charter schools in Ohio are growing by leaps and bounds, while the small number of successful charter schools in Ohio have stayed, well, a small number of successful charter schools.
“Raymond made the point too that parents are not informed enough to be true market consumers on education. Websites like Know Your Charter can help with that educational aspect of the parental choice, better arming parents with the necessary information to make a more informed decision. But to hear free market believers say that 20 years into the charter school experiment its foundational philosophy — that the free market’s invisible hand will drive educational improvement — is not working? Well, I was stunned to hear that.
“Raymond also made the point that the states that are seeing the best charter school performance are states whose charter school authorizers are focused on quality and have robust accountability measures — in other words, well-regulated. Yesterday, when the CREDO report was released, it was discovered that if online and for-profit charter schools are taken out of the equation, Ohio charters don’t perform all that bad. Problem is that more than 57% of Ohio charter school kids are in those schools. In fact, at Know Your Charter, we found that less than 10% of Ohio’s charter school kids are in schools that score above the state average on the Performance Index Score or have an A or B in overall value added.
“The point is that there are a few very high-performing charters in this state, like the Breakthrough Schools in Cleveland, or the Toledo School of the Arts, or Columbus Preparatory Academy. While these schools represent a smattering of Ohio’s 400 plus charter schools, the state’s failing charter schools are legion.”
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Is she still married to Hanushek? This could be the start of divorce proceedings in short order.
Raymond has little credibility among many people who work day to day in schools. They recognize the stupidity of her approach – trying to lump together all district and all charters. You are correct she has foundation support. That does not make her research methods or her views credible.
Raymond is credible to charter supporters when they like her findings. But she loses credibility in their eyes when she reports how many charters are failing.
I expect you know all about that Diane Ravitch.
Actually, for more than a decade a number of people have suggested that the attempt to lump all district and all charter together, and then compare then, makes no sense. This happened well before Raymond’s reports began.
Here’s a column from Mn’s 2nd largest daily newspaper in 2008:
St. Paul Pioneer Press, July 3, 2008
Learning from the Best Schools, Whatever We Call Them
By Joe Nathan
All kinds of students – eager, indifferent, bright and bored,
suburban, urban and rural, will benefit from careful, non-defensive
use of several recent reports about Minnesota’s district and charter
public schools. Minnesota’s Legislative Auditor, the University of
Minnesota/Minnesota State College/University System Report and
Center for School Change, where I work did the reports. Here are
six lessons:
1. A growing number of Minnesota families are seeking
educational options. While the number of students
attending Minnesota’s district public schools has declined
by more than 50,000 in the last decade, the number
attending charters increased by more than 23,000. Last
year, more than 125,00 students used state created
opportunities like Post-Secondary Enrollment Options, area
learning centers, open enrollment and charters. Charters
enroll a higher percentage of low income, limited English
speaking and students of color than district schools, in
Minnesota overall, and in Minneapolis.
2. Minnesota and the nation have some district and charter
public schools that are challenging the brightest students and
bringing low income, often limited English speaking students
of color up to very high achievement and graduation rates.
The CSC “Smaller, Safer, Saner, Successful Schools” report
describes how we helped increase Cincinnati’s district
graduation rate by more than 20 percent and eliminated the
graduation gap between white and African American students.
We should learn from district and charter public schools with
no admission tests that have produced VERY high
achievement and graduation rates with students from
extremely challenging backgrounds.
3. Both district and charter advocates can cite studies showing
“their schools” are superior. This gets us no-where. As
someone told me recently, “when you’ve seen one charter
school, you’ve seen one charter school.” (Also true of
district schools.) They vary enormously in philosophy,
curriculum and instructional approaches. We should learn
from the best, rather than debate, which is best overall.
The Legislative Auditor found that a higher percentage of
charters than district public schools in Minneapolis and St.
Paul were making required progress under No Child Left
Behind, while Minnesota district schools had higher average
achievement. However, the Legislative Auditor also found that
when comparing similar students in these schools, average
achievement differences were “minimal.”
4. While some district and charter educators regard each
other as “the enemy,” wise leaders like St Paul Mayor Chris
Coleman are bringing them together to achieve important
goals. Coleman convened district and charter public leaders
with local university presidents. They helped establish several
local sites where students can get college applications and
scholarship information after school, on weekends, and
during the summer. The group now is developing goals for
increasing the number of St Paul students who graduate, fully
prepared from high school, enter and graduate from a two
year year technical college/university. District and charter
leaders also have identified a common concern: much better
prepared teachers.
5. Both the Minnesota Association of School Administrators
and Minnesota charter leaders have urged state adoption of a
“value added” or “growth” model of assessment. This will
show which schools are improving achievement of students.
District and charter leaders also agree that faculty, families
and students need more immediate feedback on test results.
The MnSCU system uses computer based tests that gave
results immediately – not the 4-5 months that k-12 schools
must wait for state tests to be returned.
6. One of our national strengths has been a willingness to
allow people with new ideas to try out, as long as they are
responsible for results. Progressive state and local policies
encourage creation of new, research-based schools. Boston
Public Schools has benefited greatly from creation of small
“Pilot Schools” within their district. St. Paul area charters such
as Yinghua Academy (Chinese immersion), Math and Science
Academy, and Tarek Ibn Ziyad have strong records that attract
students from throughout the metro area. St. Paul district
schools such as Expo, French Immersion, Aerospace Magnet
and International Baccalaureate programs offer a great deal. St
Paul created some of the nation’s first district options, and the
nation’s first charter public school.
Setting aside ideology, we should learn from our most
effective schools, and recognize that constructive cooperation and
competition can occur simultaneously. This will produce huge
benefits for students, educators and communities.
Joe Nathan, a former St Paul public school teacher and
administrator, directs the Center for School Change at the
University of Minnesota’s Humphrey Institute.
Reports cited at http://www.auditor.leg.state.mn.us,
http://www.mnscu.edu/media/publications/index.html and
http://www.centerforschoolchange.org
Joe, which research is credible to you? Could you provide some links?
Title One… thanks for the question. Here are a few examples:
#1 The research on the value of high quality age 3 to grade three programs for students from low income families. Here’s a link:
http://umnews.ur.umn.edu/news/features/2011/UR_CONTENT_341561.html
#2 Research by Education Trust has identified district & charter public schools that are closing gaps: http://www.edtrust.org/issues/pre-k-12/closing-the-gaps
Education Trust is one of the groups saying we have to work SIMULTANEOUSLY on problems outside and inside schools, not one or the other. I agree with them. We often debate here whether there can be much progress in schools when there is unequal funding for schools (which is not just wrong but evil) and when there are huge income disparities. Ed Trust argues, and I agree that we need to work on each of these issues.
We used some of their research to help Cincinnati Public Schools eliminate the high school graduation gap between white & African American students.
We think that we should be honoring & learning from the most effective district & charters – and that has been our stance for more than 20 years. I just wrote about this for Huffington Post and will be writing more about this for Education Week in 2015.
Hope this is useful. Reactions welcome.
I think he’s just being sarcastic.
Could be, Ken. I’ll wait to see if there is a response.
Titleone,
Joe Nation chooses to ignore fundamental facts.
(1) Plutocrats, seeking an unlevel playing field, make political payoffs (derived from consumer dollars), to concentrate the wealth of those who, as Lincoln described them, believe in the divine right of kings.
(2) Worker association dues, politically spent, to keep from being shut out of governance, have nothing in common with the former.
(3) The final battle in the war, against the middle class, is being fought on the education battle field.
In the past six years, Black and Hispanic median household net worth fell 42%. White median household worth fell 26%. Plotting by hedge funds, test, and tech corporations, continues to contribute to the misery of deprivation.
Actually, I completely agree that wealthy individuals choose to use their money to try maintain power & priviledge. I’ve been battling with the Koch Family, for example, since I was a teenager growing up in Wichita, Kansas.
Unions sometimes represent progress, sometimes represent corruption and “keeping down” workers, whether industrial or teachers. There are wonderful examples of union leadership, and horrifying examples of corruption
The growth in income disparity is horrifying. There DO need to be changes and consequences for big business. There also need to be changes in broader society and in public schools.
Effective public schools play a key role in preparing more students to be active, informed, questioning, constructive citizens.
When we hear complaints about unions, we could reject the charges, as petulant, except that, the fates of the unions and the middle class, are inextricably linked. Generalized union criticism is cavalier. It reflects a failure to understand, that there is only one survival plan on the horizon and, its strengthened worker associations.
The oligarch’s considerable arsenal, politicians, economists, media, and judges, are all aimed squarely at worker associations, for a reason. That assault will determine the outcome of the American democracy.
Charter schools owned and operated by corporations have failed to deliver what they promised to the public, but they have delivered what they promised, behind closed doors, to the corporations (profits) and the politicians (campaign contributions). The voting public doesn’t mind because the great majority of them either do not have children in corporate charter schools or do not have children in school at all. They do not care about the education of other people’s children.
Health care is another area free markets do not work. The free market says to maximize profit, providers must maximize revenue (charge patients the highest possible amount), and minimize costs (avoid treatments as much as possible). It perverts medicine and what most doctors and nurses believe in as professionals.
Agree:)
Heath care in its current form wastes a lot of money on advertising and administrative costs, and it is not always in the best interest of the consumer. Many privatized prisons are inhumane. I hope essential services like fire fighters and police, Social Security and Medicare stay out of the marketplace. Privatization often means cheap and inadequate.
Apparently Disney is another place where free markets don’t work – at least not for the 1%ers when they’re the ones facing the business end of capitalism: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/12/disneyland-latest-victim-thin-skinned-1-percenters
education “is the only industry/sector where the market mechanism just doesn’t work….”
“Exception Rules”
Free-markets work just dandy
Except for public schools
Ignoring banks is handy
Because exception rules
Well, when their hypothesis was that the free market would improve educational opportunity, they set out to prove themselves right. As in any scientific experiment, the results can go either way and they may be unexpected. There will always be those whose experience tells them that the hyposthesis is incorrect, but the experiment is carried out to its end, and it is difficult to accept that years of research have not brought the desired results. It harkens to the idea that ideas can work out well on paper, but in reality, there are stumbling blocks along the way.
My sadness is because of the students being used in this experiment and the fact that they are often victims. In addition, so many teachers are so disenchanted by this process and disheartened with the lack of respect that they have been given. Being left out of the circle … out of the planning for change … out of the whole process … denying their input or expertise about developmentally appropriate expectations … has burned many of them out.
Posted this on the prior post and what Macke Raymond said:
[MY COMMENTS]
“In other industries, real markets [AND WHAT MAY BE THOSE UNREAL MARKETS OR THE FALSE MARKETS?] are able to develop and function because suppliers and consumers get to meet each other in an unfettered set of offers and demands for goods or services [ONLY IN AN ECONOMIST’S FANTASY WORLD]. There are no intermediary agents [AND TO WHO MAY SHE BE REFERRING? TEACHERS & THEIR OH SO BIG AND POWERFUL UNIONS AND THE “BOSS TWITS” IN ADMINISTRATIONS!?!?!] who guard access to supply or who aggregate demand and thus sway the free exchange of supply and demand. Part of that free exchange relies on complete transparency about the attributes of the goods on offer and their prices [TRY GETTING THAT INFORMATION OUT OF A PRIVATE CHARTER OR A PRIVATE SCHOOL THAT TAKES VOUCHERS], and the transactions are “known” by the participants in an open and complete way {THE ONLY PLACE THAT CAN TAKE PLACE IS IN THE COMMUNITY PUBLIC SCHOOLS BECAUSE BY LAW THEY HAVE TO OPEN THEIR BOOKS, ACTIVITIES, DECISIONS TO ALL WHO REQUEST].
I think you can see that as currently organized, public K-12 education does not meet those conditions [EXACTLY!! BECAUSE NOT ALL GOVERNMENTAL SERVICE MEET THAT ECONOMIST’S FANTASY WORLD OF OPERATING IN A “FREE MARKET”. WHY AIN’T SHE BITCHING ABOUT THE COMPLETELY INTRANSPARENT MONOPOLY CALLED THE DEPARTMENT OF WAR, OOPS I MEAN THE DEPARTMENT OF supposed DEFENSE WHO HAVE NEVER COMPLETED A MANDATED BY LAW YEARLY AUDIT?]. States and LEAs [local education agencies] act on behalf of students and parents, often with imperfect information [HEY, MS ECONOMIST/POLICY ANALYST THEIR IS NEVER EVER PERFECT INFORMATION], and supply is controlled by interests [BIG BAD UNION THUGS AGAIN AND THE DISTRICT ADTWITS, OOPS I MEAN ADMINS that have agendas other than free exchange [LIKE AN EFFIN CAPITALIST ADORINGLY LOVES A “FREE EXCHANGE”. REALLY JUST HOW IGNORANT IS THIS GAL.]
The remark today was about “early adopter” charter states that built charter laws on the faith that a little bit of competition from charter schools would a) function entirely on parental choice (free and transparent information about the range of options and their “prices”) and b) a rapid response from the rest of the suppliers in reaction to expressed demand for “something different.” [WHICH REMARK???? YOU MADE QUITE A FEW. CAN YOU BE ANY MORE OBTUSE?]
That is not to say that a market orientation COULDN’T EVER work [GO TALK TO THE CHILEAN STUDENTS/CITIZENS ABOUT THAT ONE.], I was just saying that the early period of the charter movement was a bit optimistic and premature to think [THEY CAN THINK??, OTHER THAN “HOW DO I GET MORE $$$???] that decades of controlled monopoly conduct would be influenced quickly by small numbers of consumers [AND THAT MY FRIENDS IS THE “REST OF THE STORY”–IF THAT WAS THEIR DESIRE THEN THEY’RE A LOT FURTHER OUT PAST LEFT FIELD THAN WAVELAND AVENUE THAN I HAD EVER IMAGINED.]
Duane,
I hate to be cynical, but from my perch it appears the reformers never gave a damn about children, education, poverty, or civil rights. The devastation wrought in my district and others across the country in the name of progress is reprehensible.
NJT,
It’s not being cynical, what you state is the truth. The edudeformers and GAGAers would love to have everyone believe that those of us who point out the various educational malpractices are “cynical” or “conspiratorial” or “lazy” or “backward thinking” or any other phrase you can think of that denigrates the opposition to their avaricious plans.
To make a long story short, it seems that the most successful charters are those that most resemble successful public schools. Very few charters like that, tons of great public schools getting it done under the duress of reform.
Jon, some of the most successful charters are quite different from what (at least some people view) as among the most successful district schools. People often point to large suburban high schools with high test scores and graduation rates as some of the most successful public schools. That certainly is one definition. Four of the most successful charters in this state are
Minnesota New Country, a rural k-12 charter that is project based, where every student has her/his own work space and her/his own computer, which uses public presentations by students every two months, and uses the teacher led school model (teachers are the majority of members of the board that runs the school. This school has helped many youngsters previously classified as attention deficit disorder.
High School for Recording Arts, which works with urban high school students who have dropped out or been pushed out of other generally more traditional high schools. This high school uses writing and recording music as a “hook” to draw in youngsters who had not done well elsewhere. The students have been hired by various non-profits, Verizon Wireless, State Farm Insurance and other groups to produce you-tube videos. They have become extremely successful in helping young people turn their lives around.
Higher Ground Academy, a k-12 urban charter which enrolls more than 90% students from low income families, strongly encourages students to earn college credit while still in high school, with 87% of 11th and 12th graders doing so, and requires students to apply to and be admitted to some form of higher education before graduating. The founder and executive director is the first African Am elected to the St. Paul City COuncil, who also formerly was Mn (state) Commissioner of Human Rights.
Avalon Charter, another project based grades 6-12 school that operates on the teacher led school model (it’s affiliated with Mn New Country) Many of its students are gay, lesbian or glbt – but all are looking for a small, project focused environment. It’s helped many youngsters who were bullied or ostracized in previous schools.
Each of these places is quite different from many district schools. And there are many successful district schools.
“is the only industry/sector where the market mechanism just doesn’t work….”
Because market health care works so well.
Because privatization of prisons works so well.
After reading so many posts from Chiara about the huge sums of money she’s personally paying to people to destroy Ohio’s traditional public schools, I finally wanted to find out exactly what percentage of Ohio’s children even go to charters. I was expecting to see a pretty big number, maybe even as much as 25-30%.
93% of Ohio’s public school children attend traditional public schools. 7% attend charters and — you guessed it — most of those serve children living in its hypersegregated cities.
Worries about a charter school takeover seem to be greatly exaggerated.
It really does harm public schools, though. Charters in Ohio are not subject to the laws that govern which specialized staff have to be in a school; school nurses, etc. There was a scandal about 6 months ago because a charter was paying rent to a subsidiary rather than hiring a school nurse. Charter parents raised the issue.
Last week the state school board voted to exempt public schools from those same regulations, subject to local discretion.
That’s a race to the bottom, led by charters.
Here’s how charter-style deregulation will harm public schools in Ohio:
http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/12/ohio_schools_need_the_5_of_8_r.html
Ed reform policy applies to ALL schools, not just charter schools. Public schools get hurt by these policies that are intended to “level the playing field” between the two sectors. Now no school has to hire specialized staff. That’s an improvement?
Not enough Ohioans care about the amount of tax dollars wasted on expensive, corrupt and failing charters (Knowyourcharter.com). The charter school influence-peddling, occurring in the state capital, greatly tarnishes the state’s reputation and, it potentially contributes to the election of crooks (e.g. Ohio payday loans).
Greater diligence in calling out tax-payer fleecing, may have prevented the roll-out of Ohio’s E-Check, before it spread.
The 600 students left high and dry, in Cincinnati this fall, when their charter school abruptly closed, placed a huge and unnecessary burden on the Cincinnati Public School system.
The harm being done to children, whether they live in urban areas or not, is unconscionable.
They debate new charter school laws without a single advocate for public schools at the table:
“After a short presentation by Smarick, hear reactions from a panel discussion of Ohio-based charter school experts that includes President and CEO of the Ohio Alliance for Public Charter Schools Dr. Darlene Chambers, Senate Education Chair Peggy Lehner, House Education Vice Chair Andy Brenner, and the United Schools Network’s Chief Learning Officer John Dues. A question and answer session will follow the panel. ”
This is one of the charter experts:
“Brenner started attracting attention about two weeks ago, particularly after The Dispatch quoted from his column that called public education a “socialist system” and that “the only long-run solution is to move to a more privatized system,” as Russia did a couple of decades ago. The red hammer-and-sickle flag appeared above the column.”
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/03/19/legislators-school-views-rankle-some.html
Congratulations to the faculty, families and students of several St. Paul district & charter schools for the triple digit gains that they made with dual (high school/college) credit enrollments. 5 of these young people spoke to the St. Paul, Mn board of education, describing how the faculty in these schools had changed their lives by encouraging them to take these courses.
These stories of success are on the front page of the St. Paul Pioneer Press this am. If the picture does not come through, please click on it. The youngsters’ faces reflect the considerable pride that great teachers help produce:
http://www.twincities.com/education/ci_27149750/duel-credit-program-boosts-college-goals-st-paul?source=topstoriesrot