A Satanist group asked permission from the Orange County school board in Florida to distribute coloring books in the public schools. The cartoon books would show children performing Satanic rituals and drawing pentagrams. Up until now, the school board had allowed Christian groups to distribute Bibles in school and gave atheists to distribute their materials. Now the Orange County school board may ban the distribution of any religious materials in the schools. This seemed to be a settled principle in our schools since school prayer was banned by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1962. But with the recent resurgence of vouchers, most of which are used in religious schools, the question of separation of church and state has become relevant again.

The SEPARATION of church and state IS VERY IMPORTANT for any society. History has proven this fact. Thank you for this post, Diane.
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I sincerely hope, Diane, that neither you nor any of your readers lump Satanists with nonbelievers. Aside from this being factually inaccurate, it is inaccurate by very definition.
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No need to lump everyone, but you cannot ignore it either! State money should not be given to religious institutions that do not follow the laws set out for public funds.
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No argument here. I am a secularist to the bone.
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No, Autumn, you are incorrect. You should probably do a little research before posting something as fact. Many Satanists are atheists, which makes them non-believers.
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Actually love the Satanic Temple, never thought that would be something I’d say. They are pushing the envelope-with this issue, also with Hobby-Lobby ruling. Good for them for pointing out hypocrisy.
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The critics of vouchers would have the public believe that the wall between church and state is high and impregnable and must not be breached; but in truth the wall looks as if it were made of Swiss cheese. Today religious schools, especially those that enroll low-income children, receive a variety of federal and state funds for transportation, textbooks, computers, state-mandated activities such as testing, special education for handicapped children, and remedial services. Federal and state funds flow to religious institutions that provide preschool and higher education, as well as to religious agencies that manage hospitals, homes for the aged, adoption agencies, and other social services. So the argument against vouchers does not really rest on the principle of separation, which is so regularly ignored in the provision of public services. In many ways the wall between church and state has already been breached, and the consequences for democratic life in America have hardly been catastrophic.
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A big problem is that Satanists, atheists, and other groups which are easily labeled and dismissed are at the head of this problem. We need a broader band of secularists to take on this issue.
This must include religious leaders who believe and secularism. As soon as you are painted with a discriminatory broad brush, your voice is silenced in this country.
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Sorry, to be clear, that was a trolling post. They weren’t my words; they’re an excerpt of a piece Diane wrote back in the day.
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I’m just glad no one recorded what I said as a teenager so that it shows up in some forum today. Good thing people grow and views change or trolls would have nothing to do.
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Definitely. That’s one reason why I decided not to pursue a career as best-selling author and policy expert.
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Flerp is wrong about vouchers. They and their tax credit variants are a serious attack on public education and church-state separation. Yes, conservative politicians have caved to Religious Right and conservative pressure to divert public funds to faith-based special interest private schools, but millions of voters have made it quite clear in 28 state referendum elections that they oppose such misuse of public funds by whopping 2 to 1 margin — and all this between 1966 and 2014 in states from Florida (where voters dumped Jeb Bush’s voucher plan) to Alaska and from Massachusetts to California to Hawaii, where voters rejected a sort of voucher plan on Nov 4. For details on the referenda see my article “The Great School Voucher Fraud” at arlinc.org. — Edd Doerr
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The legal ruling is not just about religion. It seems to encompass political speech as well.
See this from the National School Boards Association on the ruling that is part of the problem.
see http://legalclips.nsba.org/2014/07/16/federal-court-rejects-suit-by-advocacy-group-challenging-florida-districts-materials-distribution-policy/
Also, recall that it was George W. Bush who set up the “faith-based initiatives” across the board at the federal level.
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“FLERP!, FLERP!, FLERP!, FLERP!, FLERP!” said in a teacher’s exasperated voice, “How many times have I told you to not bait traps like that? Now get up here and write on the board ‘I will not entrap posters ever again’, 500 times.”
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Or maybe:
“Counsel FLERP! Any more entrapment like that and you will be held in contempt of court!”
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The wall may be breached, but point me to absolutes in legal codes. There are some for the most horrendous acts, certainly, but as you know, most rights and laws have exceptions. Sending federal funds to a Methodist foodbank is much different than taxpayers funding Catholic religious education.
The issue comes down to the State picking and chosing religions. That is VERY constitutional. Also a question is whether schools receiving public funds should give voters representation on how those funds are spent. If a private school accepts vouchers, then the controlling boards should be publicly elected or have public representation. Either that or refuse the public money. Seems I’ve heard at least one tea partier in a tricorner hat yell “taxation without representation” as a rallying cry.
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,….
It seemed like a simple idea. The gubbermint can’t have an “official” religion and can’t tell you how to freely believe in whatever you believe!
Now we’re saying “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
Oh wait, that’s from Mark 12-17 in the Bible….. we can’t do that! It would be religious!
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We’ve had parent volunteers form Christian prayer circles with SOME of the kids prior to school musical performances. It’s a recurring problem here, bringing religion in.
It’s not the religion that gets me, it’s the thoughtlessness. They can’t imagine that this might make the excluded kids uncomfortable, feeling like they don’t belong?
Forget “religion” what about just basic good manners? Try not to make other people feel sad and excluded at the band concert? That seems like a good lesson for kids.
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+1
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So make the Christian prayer circles excluded and don’t let them think they belong?
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But they don’t belong at school. They belong at church.
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I think it’s neat. You don’t hear that much about the devil anymore.
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I’m glad these folks are forcing the issue. Here’s a little known fact: the Devil’s corporate offices are located at 10900 Wilshire Boulevard.
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With a branch office at 1600 Pennsylvania.
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I think we should ban Gatanic rituals in our public schools– especially close reading and instragrams.
Where can I sign the petition?
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LOLOL
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Here’s a post I wrote recently about another group, the Freedom From Religion Foundation, that wanted to distribute a pamphlet in Orange County titled “An X-Rated Book: Sex and Obscenity in the Bible”: http://waynegersen.com/2014/10/25/the-slippery-slope-of-bible-distribution/
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You guys will like this:
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/11/kids-today-are-no-dumber-their-elders
6 grammar questions. Kids today are no dumber than their elders 🙂
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“Well these are very interesting coloring books that you’re distributing in our schools aren’t they? And when you sat down at your little drawing table and drew these cartoons, who was helping you? Do you think it might have been…SATAN!” The Church Lady
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Wow, just imagine Satanists, Atheists, Christians, Hebrews, Muslims, et al all working on the same team to challenge the separation of church and state!
Maybe this could be the start of something.
The news just gets more absurd each day.
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Since you replied to my statement, I must assume you are suggesting that I am trolling? I am most assuredly not. I have been here for a long time, albeit under a different name. If you are indeed suggesting that I am a troll, what precisely is it about my comments that made you presume so? Wrongfully.
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I guess Bill and Melinda have diversified and are now publishing comic books? I hear they depict small children in classrooms of 100, clicking at keyboards, staring at screens while their galvanic bracelets measure their grit. And how novel to have Arne hand them out!
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Tax dollars used for vouchers to religious schools. whatever the religion, should be stopped. This has been a problem all along. As to practicing religion in schools, everyone is so PC about what can and can’t be done or said, and you can’t recite a prayer of any nature in a public school, but there are groups who want to have moments of silence, or allow muslims to pray in schools, etc. If one group can’t have it, then no group can have it. Satanists? Wowsers. Then, you’ve got to stop the bible thumpers and the muslims and everyone else.
You know what kills me? Generally those who want religions excised want everyone else’s religion excised to the point we’re saying “happy holidays” because heaven forbid we should freely celebrate chanukah, or christmas, or ramadan or kwanza or whatever.
Get the federal tax paying money out of religious schools, and keep religion out of public schools. Period. Now how about we start with closing up the Gulan schools and funneling monies to Turkey?
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Well Ramadan isn’t all fun and games…
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When people are told about this possibility, they look at you like you grew a third eyeball. They don’t understand stepping on anyone’s toes, exposing anyone to other’s beliefs … as long as they are their own beliefs.
The strange thing for me to observe is: All people of one religion don’t agree on everything about that religion. That is why there are denominations. Families disagree. How can a school cover all the nuances of Christianity, let along all the other religions, and non-religions? Critical thinking skills are missing.
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Not only is this a good reason for separation of church and state, there are many more. For CHINO’S (Christians in name only) They tend to forget that Jesus, in Matthew chapter 6 verse 5 called those who pray in public hypocrites. But then again, Jesus appears to be irrelevant in right wing CHINO philosophy. Can you say ” help the poor and heal the sick?”, or “Judge not lest ye be judged?”
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As a former principal, I can’t tell you the number of times I had to explain (and still do) that we can teach ABOUT religion, we just can’t teach a certain religion and proselytize. We used to even have Bible as Literature courses in our high schools and students could better understand American Literature when they took that course. As an English teacher I was surprised students didn’t even know the stories of Adam and Eve. We celebrate holidays when no one understands the basic beliefs. Are there any social studies core standards to make sure we all have a background in different religions so we know what we’re talking about?
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