Despite a Supreme Court ruling that immigrant children without citizenship status have the right to free public schooling, Fox News has taken a strong stand in opposition, according to Media Matters for America.
Its researchers write:
Fox News Decries Granting Undocumented Children Their Right To Access Public Education
Fox News personalities criticized a plan allowing newly arrived child migrants access to public education as “tragic” and dangerous, despite a Supreme Court decision guaranteeing all children access to education regardless of immigration status.
Fox Figures Complain That Refugee Children Receive Taxpayer-Funded Education
Fox Guest: It Is “Tragic On So Many Levels” For U.S. To Educate Immigrant Children. On the August 12 edition of Fox News’ Your World, host Neil Cavuto invited conservative talk show host Gina Loudon on to criticize the fact that undocumented immigrant children receive public education. Loudon claimed it was “tragic on so many levels” for the U.S. to educate the undocumented children, adding that without criminal background checks and health screenings, schools won’t know “if this student is a murderer” or “has one of the diseases that we’re hearing about coming across the border.” [Fox News, Your World with Neil Cavuto, 8/12/14]
Fox’s Tucker Carlson: “But What About The Rights Of The Kids Who Were Born Here?” On the August 11 edition of Fox News’ Fox & Friends, co-host Tucker Carlson responded to the notion that it is the United States’ legal obligation to educate children who come into the country by saying, “But what about the rights of the kids who were born here, the American citizens who presumably have the right to a decent education and aren’t getting one because of this?” [Fox News,Fox & Friends, 8/11/14]
Fox Business’ Buttner: “Forget The Ebola Scare. Is It Really The Back To School Scare?” On the August 10 edition of Fox Business’ Bulls and Bears, host Brenda Buttner questioned whether parents should be concerned with “a surge of up to 60,000 illegal kids in their classrooms.” Buttner exclaimed, “Forget the Ebola scare. Is it really the back to school scare?” Fox Business reporter Tracy Burns later insisted that “we have to take care of our own first.” [Fox Business, Bulls and Bears, 8/10/14]
REALITY: School-Age Children In America Are Guaranteed Equal Access To Education, Irrespective Of Immigration Status
American Immigration Council: Supreme Court Guaranteed Undocumented Immigrant Children Equal Access ToEducation Under The 14th Amendment In Plyer v. Doe. In 1981, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that a Texas statute which aimed to withhold state funding from local school districts that also educated undocumented immigrant children was a violation of the 14th Amendment. The Court found that undocumented immigrants and their children are people “in any ordinary sense of the term” and are thus guaranteed equal protection under the law, including the right to not be unfairly barred from the public school system:
The Court based its ruling on the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which says in part, “No State shall … deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.” (This provision is commonly known as the “Equal Protection Clause.”) Under this provision, the Court held that if states provide a free public education to U.S. citizens and lawfully present foreign-born children, they cannot deny such an education to undocumented children without “showing that it furthers some substantial state interest.”
The Court found that the school district had no rational basis to deny children a public education based on their immigration status, given the harm the policy would inflict on the children themselves and society as a whole. “By denying these children a basic education,” the Court said, “we deny them the ability to live within the structure of our civic institutions, and foreclose any realistic possibility that they will contribute in even the smallest way to the progress of our Nation.” The Court also said that holding children accountable for their parents’ actions “does not comport with fundamental conceptions of justice.” [American Immigration Council,6/15/12]

In Plyler vs. Doe, part of the rationale was that it was not a financial burden to the states. Perhaps it is now, and the federal government should be covering the cost of education for these children and not the state taxpayers.
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Maine Governor is complaining he might need to take in 8 children…. Are you saying that he cannot do that with state resources??????
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Fox “news” cannot even get into Canada as their laws prohibit presenting as NEWS false and misleading items. Opinions can be presented when identified as opinions but not as news.
My view is that few people who watch Fox “news” have no idea who Rupert Murdoch, the owner of Fox and papers in the U. K, really is and what he stands for. If they knew they wouldn’t give credence to anything presented on Fox as “news”. Murdoch was called on the carpet in the U. K., had to shut down one of his papers because of the illegalities gathering his news. In the U.S. when he bought, I believe it was the Wall Street Journal, some of the best reporters of that paper quit rather than work for Murdoch. Such is his reputation by those who know.
A recent poll showed that people who did not watch ANY news programs had a better grasp of what is going on than those who watch Fox. Nuff Sed.
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I would like to cite that poll.
Can you provide the particulars of the study?
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Click to access final.pdf
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Ummm… I just read the poll results. NPR plays it down the middle?! Jon Stewart does a good job of giving it to people straight? Is this a joke? Who could possibly give any credence to something like this?
Gordon, most news outlets lean left. Every person on earth knows this? Fox leans right, sure… but you can’t say they don’t report the news because you’ve decided that their slant on it is unacceptable while at the same time getting your news from multiple sources with a different slant.
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I depends on which Fox News Show you watch. Fox and Friends is a joke. Glen Beck was a joke. Shepard Smith tries to be even handed, but he is generally confused. Chris Wallace can be in the center. O[Reilly just likes to be a smartaleck.
The problem at Fox News is that it runs crawls, states headlines, etc. that are deliberately sensationalized and lean far, far right. The secondary problem is that some people onliy read the headlines. They see what they want to see and let it reinforce whatever it is that they want to believe. Often the Fox reporters will track back in the actual report, but not resoundingly. They will “clarify” the misleading headline without saying that they are doing that.
Yes, all news has some sensationalized headlines to grab viewers. Only certain people will even watch Fox because they know what is going on. Others won’t watch the rest of the news programs because they think they are “leftist”.
It is sickening to me that “left leaning” is now considered to be what was once centrist. And, you can’t explain it to anyone not interesting in looking at the history as it is. Oh, well.
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They are CHILDREN!!!!! Without an education (an education in the US is supposed to be excellent…) won’t they become a tremendous burden to both the US and to their home countries???? And what an asset they could be if we allow them an education and support. Don’t we have a moral obligation to care for all people?? That DOES include children. A piece of wisdom says that you can judge a country by the way its people care for children and elderly. Since when does that mean we pick and choose which children??
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I’m curious: what do other countries do? Do any countries deny public education to non-citizens?
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In China children born in violation of the one child policy have little legal recognition of existence. The heihu (literally translated as “black hukou, also known as black children) have no right to an education and are not recognized as persons with legal standing in Chinese courts.
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I’ve also wondered what policy is in Canada, Britain, France et al.
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Booklady,
If a child is not a resident of a district, the district can and often does diss-enroll the student. At least one district offers a bounty for every nonresident student caught.
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Scott Brown (trying to earn senate in NH) uses a very offensive language about “those people” and he has a law degree???? I find his treatment to be very offensive and he ridiculed Elizabeth Warren for having Native American ancestry. There seems to be no way to convert this mentality into a more appropriate tolerance level or appreciation of others with diverse backgrounds, opinions, or preferences based on their own unique heritage and circumstances.
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Why was my comment deleted? Is this the open dialogue that you promote, Diane? Censoring someone who doesn’t fall in line with all your views?
I was trying to educate Jean on how Brown was justified in ridiculing Warren for her dishonesty. She has been proven a fraud, as there is no evidence she has any Native American background. Yet, for 25 years, she has used this to her advantage with her employers. The Boston Globe even had to issue a public correction for their inaccurate coverage of Senator Warren’s ancestry claims in 2012. The paper falsely asserted there was documentary “evidence” of the Senator’s Native American heritage.
Senator Warren has “gamed” the system, as many illegal immigrants do in this country. It is not racist to point this out. As the product of immigrants I welcome legal immigration. I do not have to support ILLEGAL immigration, however. Scott Brown does not deserve to be stereotyped by you or anyone else.
Try not to delete this one, Diane…
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Joe, your comments about Elizabeth Warren and whether she was or was not of Native American ancestry have nothing to do with education. Its’s my blog and when I see offensive comments, I delete them. This is not a platform to sound off about your personal likes and dislikes. I met Senator Warren last fall and found her to be sincere, thoughtful, and brilliant. If you want to argue about her ancestry, take it somewhere else.
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Diane, please remove Jean’s comment then. If this is a blog about education then slandering Scott Brown should be off limits. I was merely responding to her attack on him. You allowed that… why?
Just because you met with Elizabeth Warren and found her to be brilliant doesn’t mean that her ancestral claims aren’t bogus.
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Joe, I didn’t see Jean’s comment. I saw yours. If it is inappropriate, I will delete it.
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Since there is a complaint about my statement I went back to edit it but since I can’t, here is my revision.
The point of this comment is that people of minority groups are discriminated against and for the example I will use my own family because my mother had at least two ancestors (female) of Native American heritage (of the Nipmuc tribe in Mendon MA) and since all the records were kept by churches at that time period the women were not recorded and that is why I cannot find birth or marriage records.
This is the statement from the Boston Globe about Brown ”
“STAFF AND WIRE REPORTS |
The chief of the Cherokee Nation condemned Sen. Scott Brown’s re-election campaign Wednesday for singing war whoops and doing the tomahawk chop during a Boston “rally”, actions the chief called “downright racist.”
And, further when he is on TV in a news conference and is speaking of minority groups he uses the term “those people” …. when speaking as a lawyer or elected official and we need to call them out when they do this anywhere (north or south).
There is racism everywhere (north and south)… see my example above about Governor of Maine doesn’t want to take in children from the border (eight in number) because there are no resources.
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Jean, my father’s parents were Cherokee on both sides, but they were not on the rolls. So, there is no way of “proving this.” If you had met them, however, you would have had little doubt. So, you are absolutely right. Often, historical records of such ancestry simply do not exist, though genetic testing can provide substantial evidence. This business about Warren’s ancestry is a NONISSUE.
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All children are our children and our responsibility.
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What Annat said!!!
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Really, Annat? Where does it end? All children who are struggling on earth… should they all come here? Will you support them? Where will the money come from? This is ideology gone wild. This board needs a dose of reality.
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So, which children do you think, Joe, that we should consider unworthy of our collective attention? I hold this truth to be self-evident–that all children are created equal. John Rawls’s veil of ignorance argument applies here.
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Bob, all children are worthy. All human beings have worth. Where are you going with this? This is a resources issue, not a race issue. It’s a legal/illegal immigration issue. We have a right to know who is in our country. We have a right to control our borders. We have a right to control immigration as a sovereign nation and constitutional republic. Anything short of doing that undermines our system of government, immigration and the rule of law. And puts an unfair burden on our legal residents who are on the hook for local, county, state and federal taxes. And it’s a huge slap in the face to those who have legally gone through the process to become American citizens and have assimilate. Why doesn’t all of that matter to you?
People like you (idealists) who are promoting and appeasing this illegal behavior wear their own veil of ignorance. Local school districts are footing the bill for our Federal and State governments’ dysfunction and inability to secure our laws and it has got to stop. I happen to be in one of those districts in Westchester, NY and there is a mutiny brewing. Enrollment is decreasing all around us (of our legal citizens), yet the illegal immigrants/refugees are flooding in. They bring no new tax $ with them and their kids/nephews/nieces are the most expensive children for us to educate –because they’re ESL.
It’s a math problem, not a race problem. I don’t care if the district is 70% Latino… so long as these folks are contributing to the tax base. But, they are not –and their landlords (slumlords) are the real cheats here. It’s a huge mess and turning your back on this problem just denies reality.
So, 60,000 refugee children is ok for you? Got it.
Where does it end? What is your threshold, given the financial state of affairs in this country and enormous debt we’re amassing each year? Would 6,000,000 be ok? 60,000,000? I’m curious at what number does reality set in for you? There are 6.7 billion people who don’t live in the U.S. Good luck in figuring this one out.
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A lot of these commentators make a public show of their religiosity. Well, I have something to say to remind them of:
“And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” Matt. 25: 40
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I was raised that one is to pray in private, not to go around boldly making a show of their “self-righteousness”. This is used to entwine religion, politics, and education into one convenient little sound bite. Argh.
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I would just like to see some of these ultra-right-wingers start practicing the religion that they profess. The founder of that religion spoke again and again and again of our duties toward the poorest among us. He washed the feet of beggars, cured lepers, consorted with and ministered to prostitutes, and told the rich young man who wanted to follow him, “Great. Go sell everything you have and give it to the poor, then come follow me. We have work to do.”
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I know, Bob. I am so saddened that people with whom I was raised, that I love, that I was good friends with, or that I am related to seem to have this one narrow way to look at their own religion, even so far as being absolute in their belief that they have found the only way to live. I thought the Rapture was going to come by 2000. It hasn’t. I tried and I prayed and my mind simply would not accept that they were chosen or that I was chosen to be one of the “right ones”. I believe in the use God as they do and even the truths of Jesus. But I don’t see the Love as being the governing guide in their lives as they shake their heads at me, telling me I am list and confused. I have lived a very clean, moral, and faithful life, but I won’t try to rule the world. They think I am trying to. They see only their views. They think I don’t include them because I won’t agree that they have a calling to hate and persecute. It is very confusing and hurtful to be shunned by people who look to be living the right life. They are charitable, hard working. But they are selfish. I don’t wish to be like they are, but then I am seemingly judging them, too.
All I know is that we aren’t called to teach the few and to force feed anything into the minds of children that doesn’t help them get along. I am seeing a whole new propaganda coming from the far right that is very oppressive and frightening. I guess I should just find a way to pray alone about it and not worry so much. Maybe I will achieve Enlightenment. I hope so.
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Best to you, Deb, in your search. We could all use a lot more humility about these matters than we have. I see a lot of callousness toward the desperately poor among many, though not, of course, all, of our self-professed Christians –callousness of a kind completely incompatible with the teachings of Christ as I understand them. A country that will turn back hungry children has lost its moral compass. These people should go read what’s written on the Statue of Liberty and in their holy book. They should ask themselves what Christ would have done about a hungry child at the door.
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Full disclosure, I’m not very religious. Given that, I wish people on both sides of the political aisle would stop using religion to suit their argument du jour. Jesus sounded like a cool dude. Love thy neighbor, love the poor, etc. etc. All great. But, then there is reality. We live in a nation that was built and molded by the rule of law and a certain system of government. Let’s not use religion as a crutch to excuse unlawful behavior. This is a very weak argument.
Anyone who feels as strongly as some on this board should move to adopt these children and have them join their family. Then you can truly practice what you preach. I have three different sets of friends who have adopted children from Central America (4 from Guatemala and 2 from Honduras). Those are the compassionate Americans that the world benefits from.
By the way… none of them support illegal immigration. Let the conniptions begin.
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Okay. Sorry, I was answering Bob. I just find it dismissive to act as if anyone could “adopt all the needy kids” individually. To give a hoot instead of being indifferent would be a nice nationwide attitude. I never understood selfishness.
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However they don’t have a problem with the parents of these CHILDREN cleaning their homes, picking and processing their food, painting their homes, landscaping their estates, and doing many more jobs that contribute to the quality of life they enjoy.
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School districts cannot legally check the immigration status of students. They are only allowed to confirm that the child is resident of the school district. Alabama and Arizona recently tried put limits on these rules which the courts have struck down. 60,000 students or so is not a large number of students for the USA to absorb. I am sure that some states such as TX, CA, NY, and FL will get the most, and the ESL/ELL staff will do their job to ease the transition. The kids will be wonderful and lucky they got out their tragic circumstances. I am a retired ESL teacher, and I miss those lovely children and grateful families. Give them a chance and the support they need, and they will be a huge asset to our country.
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Can the school districts check for residency in the district and kick any students out who are not legal residents of the district?
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In NYS the answer is yes. You have to be a resident of the district to attend their schools tuition free. Parents or guardians can request a hearing if they believe they’ve been denied access unfairly.
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Holly,
That is what I thought. Residency matters in many districts. A women in Ohio was jailed for theft of services because her family was not a resident of the district.
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One has to “wonder” if the push to privatize is in reaction to having hoards of undocumented children in certain states. It doesn’t justify it, but it might explain it. There have been movements to segregate by using privatization for years … for citizens of color. It isn’t a “reach” to assume that there would be a similar reaction to “illegals”. Is it?
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Furthermore, it could hurt those district’s tests scores, you know.
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Here’s the weird thing: the puppet-master Repubs can’t get enough illegals across the border fast enough.
They need the illegals to serve as uncomplaining slave labor.
This will be interesting–the 1%-er Repubs and Democrats do whatever business wants. Dems are off the hook because their voters are generally ok with illegal immigration and the children of illegals being in the public schools. So Dems can appease their voters with immigration votes while secretly really serving corporations.
Repubs, however, are between a rock and a hard place on this issue. Their voters want to stop the abuse of illegals by closing the porous border and making the schools off limits, but the corporations and the politicians want the slave labor.
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“by closing the porous border” but it can’t be closed 100% to put things off like legislation waiting for border to be completed locked up is nonsense.
With climate change the world is going to see more and more of the refugees in areas crossing borders…. I think New Zealand has already announced this….
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So, now climate change is a new excuse for crossing an international border illegally? I have officially heard it all. “Hey everyone, the temperature of the planet might increase 1 degree Celsius next century, so let’s get North so we can stave off spontaneous combustion…”
Calgon, take me away.
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Joe, she did not say that this was “an excuse.” She pointed to a reality. There have been a number of UN reports about this–warning of coming refugee crises due to water shortages and climate shifts. This is REPORTING, not excuse-making. A reality check.
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I haven’t heard any comments on what our children will learn from the children who will be placed in their classes. Perhaps that will learn why our country is so desirable that these children will risk their lives to come here. Perhaps they will learn that our country is a beacon of liberty and justice that calls to oppressed people around the world. Perhaps they will learn that we hold the belief that all men are created equal and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Perhaps.
Then again, our children may learn that some children are less equal than others based on their color, language, or country of origin. They may learn that we only help those whom we deem worthy, useful, and acceptable in our society. And they may learn that the words of our creeds are empty and not to be taken as the principles on which our nation is founded. What do we want for OUR children to learn from this?
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beautifully said!
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What “our” children learn is tolerance and perhaps some appreciation of diversity. “Our” children gain some new friends, especially if they have the opportunity to work cooperatively with the newcomers. “Our” children will not be held back from this experience or from spending time with the newcomers, especially in elementary school. Although I spent time teaching ELL students, K-12, I finished the last fifteen years of teaching in a K-5 school that received a Blue Ribbon of Excellence from the Dept. of Education, and our building had about an 18% ELL student population. This can only happen if school districts are allocated the funding to do the job right. “Our” children may even be fortunate enough to be in dual language classroom where they can learn Spanish early. It’s a viable skill for today’s global market. The newcomers are here fleeing for their lives. What they are looking for is safety and a chance.
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My children can learn about tolerance (they are) and accept children of all backgrounds while also learning about the rule of law –and that one demographic group should not get preferential treatment over another. They can also learn the difference between legal immigration and assimilation and illegal immigration.
The American citizens who are poor and growing up in many of our major cities’ ghettos are not getting all of the same opportunities (and services) as those crossing our Southern border illegally. This is a travesty that goes unmentioned on boards like these.
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I had a girl from Mexico in my class a few years ago. Midyear the family moved back to Mexico. He couldn’t find work and couldn’t afford to live in Ohio any longer. She had struggled in earlier grades, but I found that one thing she could do to improve her learning was to be “the one” to lead US when we had characters in stories about Mexico or where Spanish names and words were used. I let HER teach US. And, she loved it. She started to do much better because she felt important, not “different”. I think it is good to give students the time to contribute to the general learning of everyone, including the teacher. Scripted learning isn’t easy to adapt to such scenarios. We need to step back from the delivery system being promoted these days. It doesn’t help all students.
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Deb-
If you ever have a particularly bad day, take a few moments to look at
any of the many citations readily available on the Hobart Shakespeareans. The student body is half Hispanic and half South Korean.
Rafe Esquith has delivered miracles for a quarter century.
Please do not call him!!
There are three or four books published which discloses each and every detail of what makes his program work so well. You can learn everything that Rafe does just by reading his books and following his
lead.
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Yes, there is an expense related to the additional children being added to the already overcrowded classrooms. There are no additional funds being given, no additional teachers being hired, no translators being provided, and no additional buildings being built. It is a grand idea to proclaim that all, even those who arrive illegally, should have access to everything, but face the facts, someone must pay for it.
While the ruling quoted above does say a law specifically denying access to education to any illegal immigrants is not valid, it does specifically cite those children in the custody of parents and/or guardians as those not to be denied. That is not the case here. Officially these children are being detained until a hearing regarding their deportation is held. If they need access to education, the federal government should be hiring a teacher to come to them instead of forcing the states to bear the burden.
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In my classroom, I used to show a video of Anthony Romero, head of the ACLU, being interviewed by María Hinojosa, in which he noted the careful distinction made in the U.S. Constitution between “persons” and “citizens”. Some rights are reserved to citizens – notably the right to vote. Others are recognized as what today might be characterized as human rights – all persons having the right to life, liberty and the property, for example (starting about 13:30). The founders, in their perilous quest to create a democracy, were aware that some persons might seek asylum here from tyrants abroad and acted out of a desire to safeguard such persons.
Perhaps the constitutional “originalists” could think that over.
Romero is also quite prescient on the impact of the erosion of civil liberties post 9/11, including surveillance under the pretext of national security. It’s several years old (maybe 2007), but still worth watching.
http://www.wgbh.org/programs/Maria-Hinojosa-One-on-One-12/episodes/Anthony-Romero-31663
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well said, Christine, and, a great lesson!
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Here’s an interesting take on the same story on “illegal”/”undocumented” immigrants being given financial assistance for higher education. One version is by Fox News, the other by Fox News Latino.
Fox News and Fox News Latino Cover The Same Story, Hilarity Ensues
The rest of the story is an example of a similar thing regarding the Affordable Care Act being presented differently in the two venues.
It would be interesting to note how Fox News Latino covers the same story (undocumented latino immigrants in the public schools) mentioned in this blog post.
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A recent study found that people that watched Fox News were less informed than those that watched no news at all!
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Save the discussion and secure the borders Unless of course you’re in global government under the UN.
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It may not have occured to the likes of one Rupert Murdoch that one cannot chose his parentage.
These poor kids are here, they have already faced more misery and neglect than 100 of our poorest domestically born kids.
They need every chance to make it in the world. If access to our public schools can help them achieve, with very hard work, determination and a commitment to getting along with others, upward mobility into the middle class and out of poverty, they deserve that chance.
Rupert Murdoch was probably born with a silver spoon in his mouth and probably was lead to develop a robust sense of entitlement.
Had Murdoch had different parentage and been born to a single illiterate teen mother who had to work multiple jobs just to put food on the table and a roof over their heads, he just might have a different perspective on upward mobility.
What I see of him is an exact duplicate of the incumbent owner of the Dallas Cowboys, Jerry Jones. Neither has one iota of character.
When the Bancroft family agreed to sell Dow Jones & Company to Rupert Murdoch, a lot of civility and character was lost by our society.
Similarly when Bum Bright agreed to sell the Dallas Cowboys team to Jerry Jones, a lot of civility and character was lost by our society.
We need to see how we can help the Central American developing countries improve their economies and quality of life so that individuals will not be forced to illegally migrate to the US to find safety and a job.
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They should close the border. It can be done. Create a no man’s land, and fill it with anti-personnel mines. They did this to seal the border between West and East Germany. It was very effective for the vast majority of people. Have guard towers with shoot to kill orders. Once the word gets out, people will stop coming. They only come now because they know we are weak and won’t defend the borders. Sooner or later, this is what will happen. If we drop thousands of mines, then we actually don’t need so many guards. Not many people will try to walk through a minefield. They will be forced to make their own countries better.
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So we should emulate East Germany from the 1960’s? How did that turn out, exactly?
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Is Mike a member of the Texas Legislature?
He shows every sign of the same level of intelligence and humanitarianism as do many members of that inaugust body.
Thank goodness that he has never heard of the concept of “bounty”.
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Who benefits from unsecured borders? The people coming here to try and live a decent life, the people who benefit from hiring people for low wages or those of us (and this is close to every US citizens) who reaps a benefit from the low wages paid to these people crossing the border? Perhaps the answer is all of the above.
If the business model applies to schools, why doesn’t it apply to immigration (legal and illegal) it’s supply and demand. People are willing to cross the border because people on this side of the border have a demand for their labor.
Also, there are a few US policies that contribute to the flow of human across the border (the war on drugs and NAFTA to name a few) Why doesn’t anyone mention those when talking about fixing the “problem: of illegal immigration?
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Concerned,
NAFTA actually reduces the incentives for people to cross borders to work by allowing them to work in their home country and send what they produce across the border instead. There is no need to go to Florida to pick oranges if you can stay home, pick the oranges, and just send the oranges to Florida.
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NAFTA allow US companies to remove jobs from this country, underpay workers in other countries, reap greater profits and to tell a story about how they are helping workers in developing nations. TPP will do the same.
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Christine,
If a job is moved to Mexico, there is less reason for a citizen of Mexico to move to the United States. I was pointing out to Concerned Mom that NAFTA reduces the incentives for illegal immigration, not increasing them as Concerned Mom stated.
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For all practical purposes, it is virtually impossible to block the southern border of the US from access by illegal immigrants.
If you build a 15 foot high fence, there will be a land office business made in selling
16 foot ladders south of the border.
Things are so bad and dangerous in Mexico and other nations in Central America that people will do anything to get their families to an area where they will be safe from drug lord violence, regardless of the differences in economic opportunities.
Let us imagine for the sake of those less enlightened, that our borders were closed all of a sudden. What would happen?
The US economy would start grinding to a slow halt the very minute that its borders were to be blocked.
There would not be a critical mass of people willing to do the backbreaking work in the hot sun of summer to pick the crops of the vegetables and the fruits that are essential for our culinary choices.
Are you ready to open a can of green beans for dinner just to have sealed borders?
Who would mow the lawns and clean the pools.
Your roof is leaking? Who are the roofing contractors going to get to crawl up on the roofs in the summer where the temperatures reach 140 degrees where fully exposed to the sun?
You want to go out to dinner? Who is the restaurant owner going to get to bus the tables and to wash the dishes when robustly entitled Anglos turn their noses up at such hard and menial worK.
If the borders are shut, count on the US economy to go into a recession, as many things we take for granted are not going to happen. If you want to what see a city deprived of the immense economic boosting of having a robust Hispanic work force, visit Shreveport and Bossier City, Louisiana.
For some unknown reason, Hispanics have avoided settling in these two cities, and they appear to be back in the 1950s. It is stunted and backward.
If you want to open a business there which requires high precision hand crafting, lots of luck to you. Anglos pale at this when compared to Hispanics and your quality will suffer if you are unable to recruit and retain a critical mass of Hispanic workers.
The vocal red necks of our society need to wake up and smell the coffee before spouting their venomous proclamations on the need to seal our borders.
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http://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/subsidizing-inequality-mexican-corn-policy-nafta-0
What part did NAFTA play in the corn issues facing Mexican farmers?
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Concerned,
It does make food cheaper in Mexico, hurting those that farm. The more things we allow the Mexicans to produce there and send to the United States, the fewer Mexicans we will have crossing the border in order to produce things to be consumed in the United States.
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NAFTA, like charter schools, benefited a few. For the majority, not so much. But it has generated a lot of wealth for some folks, at the expense of many.
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Christine,
I am curious if you have some specific examples to support your claim.
Preferential trade agreements tend to have two different impacts on the flow of goods and services. The good thing that they do is to create trade between the countries. There are more opportunities for citizens of Mexico and citizens of the United States to find mutually beneficial transactions. The second impact, which can be a problem from the international perspective, is that it diverts trade. A good that might have been produced in Bangladesh, for example, is now produced in Mexico because of the trade concessions in NAFTA. If trade diversion dominates trade creation, world welfare can decrease as production moves from low cost countries to high cost ones.
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A general statement that NAFTA was bad for most, without citing one single set of economic data, is not persuasive.
Actions which retard the logical flow of a free market, in general, are harmful to most.
Letting each country do more business in those areas in which it has comparative advantages tends to be better for all.
Dictators like to build walls to prevent imports of better. lower cost goods from other countries, as they tend to control production of those protected goods in their own country.
Mexico’s biggest challenge is its constitutional prohibition of private companies being allowed to handle any of the country’s massive oil and gas reserves, which have been mismanaged by inept government lackeys for generations.
Free markets tend to solve many problems, but those who would run roughshod over the vulnerable need to be held accountable.
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Is subsidized US corn a free market?
Are the human beings in Mexico and Central America participating in the free market by offering their services to employers in the US who are more than willing to hire them?
I find it interesting that the groups that scream for small government want to have a heavily secured border. Luckily for most of us, immigration wasn’t so strict when our ancestors made the move from their homelands.
Creating a land mine filled buffer zone along the border does not address the root cause of illegal immigration. Do the people who think it is acceptable to kill human beings crossing a border illegally also think people caught hiring illegal immigrants should get the death penalty?
Of course it will be acceptable for the US to cross the border to fight the war on drugs.
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Concerned,
I doubt you would find many economists in favor of such subsidies. Generally speaking, offering subsidies is a way to turn valuable inputs into less valuable outputs. Much better to turn valuable inputs into even more valuable outputs.
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ALL children deserve to have an excellent education, and we here in NY state must make sure that resources are allocated to make that happen and that taxation is reformed to be far more fair. . . . .
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I would suggest that most rational individuals are against subsidies in any form whatsoever, other than market research and process improvement R&D.
Most subsidies are illegal in international trade, although one may not get action on a transgression during one’s lifetime, given the slow pace of the systems.
It is my understanding that many of the products manufactured in China could not compete without significant government subsidies, including bank loans that for all practicality, never have to be retired.
I agree that that is not fair. That is why we purchase virtually nothing that is made in China, most especially pet food.
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What happens if Illegal immigrants are caught in Mexico? What happens to unaccompanied minors caught in Mexico? Do they get food, clothing, lawyers, schooling, or medical care? What happens if you move to Mexico legally , but cannot afford private school so you enroll in public school? Let me help you. There is no Spanish as a second language. What if you enter illegally, that’s right, no medical care, no food, no clothing, certainly no lawyers. The reality is, you are processed and driven back across the border and I mean right across the border, like 25 feet. Desparate families pay coyotes about $4,000 (Western Unioned from the US) to attempt to get across Mexico (coyotes pay off officials along the way) because they know that they will not be returned and the odds are the kids will be cared for in every way. The news is full of statistics about dwindling numbers of minors right now. Common sense here: It is the rainy season south of the border, monsoon rains. This is followed by blistering summer heat. They make the journey in Spring and Fall because they are less likely to die and most importantly, by Fall all the spring kids will be processed and enjoying the perks of the US.
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This whole dilemma could have been avoided if we actually cared about border security. The liberals have fought hard through the years to keep our border constraints as porous as possible and now we all pay the price. It’s a shame these same liberals do not fight as hard for our domestic poverty ridden children but follow the money trail and you’ll know why. It’s quite sad that these offspring of illegal immigrants get caught in the middle but when their parents decided to enter our country illegally and broke our laws doing so, they are the ones who created this not conservatives or Fox news. If these illegal parents wouldn’t have broken the law to start with, we wouldn’t even be dealing with this situation. As far as Fox news and all the liberal outcry about their news reporting, they do represent a huge faction of American-born legal US citizens who are fed up with letting illegal entry lawbreakers into our country unabashed and that sentiment will never change no matter the source, Fox news or otherwise. We need to punish all the employers who employ illegal immigrants then they’ll leave on their own accord and take their kids with them and then their home countries can take care of their educational needs and then they won’t need the educational handout everyone is chiming for in this blog.
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illustrating two court cases in New Zealand relative to refugee status and climate….
quote: “Appealing the decision on humanitarian grounds allowed discretion to be widened so the tribunal could consider whether it would be unjust to send a person back to their country. Obviously their character, the fact they’re going to contribute to New Zealand and that they have a connection to New Zealand is also taken into account,” Zohs said. The family has three generations of relatives living in New Zealand.
Kiribati man Ioane Teitiota’s bid to become the world’s first climate change refugee was rejected this year.
The 37-year-old moved to New Zealand with his wife in 2007 after deciding their life on the low-lying Kiribati island Tarawa was no longer sustainable because of rising seas.”
When Boston Harbor moves into Greater Boston I might be seeking refuge in Canada.
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